(OT) Forgeries are being posted to this group via Glorb.net.

[John Corliss (ES)]

Please note that several forgeries and much trolling via sock puppets
are being posted to this group through the Glorb anonymous newsfeed:

http://glorb.net/

Accordingly, I have added that domain to my signature file

Note that I do NOT use that service or have an account with them. As
always, I only post via Computer Country (who subcontracts Giganews as
their news provider) and my account via Eternal-September.

--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, share,
spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me, please.

Freeware- legally obtainable, local install computer programs which you
may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Because of Googlespam, I block almost everything from Google Groups. I
also usually block as much as possible from anonymous remailers and
feeds, and other such rogue services because forger-trolls use them:

aioe.org
alt.net
anonymous (look for it in the Path header)
datemas.de
dizum.com
ecn.org
enfer-du-nord.net
frell.theremailer.net
glorb.net (look for it in the Path header) <--------NEW!
mail2news (look for it in the Path header)
mixmaster.*
mixmin (look for it in the Path header)
octanews.net
open-news-network.org
Pooh or any of its variants (look for it in the Subject or From headers)
reece.net.au (look for it in the Message-ID header)
remailer (look for it in the Path header)
rip.ax.lt
tioat.net
usenet4all.se
xsusenet.com
x-privat.org
etc. (as they appear)

P.S. I don't reply to complaints about my signature file length. It's
laid out this way so that it's easier for people to see the individual
rogue services.

[MiniMouse]

"John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:jgofd1$d2j$1...@dont-email.me:

> Please note that several forgeries and much trolling via sock puppets
> are being posted to this group through the Glorb anonymous newsfeed:
>
> http://glorb.net/
>
> Accordingly, I have added that domain to my signature file
>
> Note that I do NOT use that service or have an account with them. As
> always, I only post via Computer Country (who subcontracts Giganews as
> their news provider) and my account via Eternal-September.
>

I don't understand. How do we know that the above message isn't a
forgery? How do we know where this message is coming from?

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

If you look at the path header most simple forgeries are obvious.
However John does seem to suffer from a touch of paranoia as he claims
many if his messages are forgeries. Most people don't care. I think
forgeries can be used for marketing as they often start a discussion.

Steve

--
Neural network software applications, help and support.

Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

[MiniMouse]

Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@npsl1.com> wrote in
news:gkmvi7djajkohj7ds...@4ax.com:

> On 06 Feb 2012 13:32:43 GMT, MiniMouse <Mini...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>"John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:jgofd1$d2j$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Please note that several forgeries and much trolling via sock puppets
>>> are being posted to this group through the Glorb anonymous newsfeed:
>>>
>>> http://glorb.net/
>>>
>>> Accordingly, I have added that domain to my signature file
>>>
>>> Note that I do NOT use that service or have an account with them. As
>>> always, I only post via Computer Country (who subcontracts Giganews
as
>>> their news provider) and my account via Eternal-September.
>>>
>>
>>I don't understand. How do we know that the above message isn't a
>>forgery? How do we know where this message is coming from?
>
> If you look at the path header most simple forgeries are obvious.
> However John does seem to suffer from a touch of paranoia as he claims
> many if his messages are forgeries. Most people don't care. I think
> forgeries can be used for marketing as they often start a discussion.
>
> Steve
>

Thanks for the info Steve. It seems that checking headers is a lot of
work to do. Besides, I don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to
Xnews and this forum.

[Quaalude]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:55:21 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

> John does seem to suffer from a touch of paranoia

*TOUCH* ? lol

[Mike Easter]

MiniMouse wrote:

> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
> forum.

Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system, nor
do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus

To show headers View/ Show all headers

To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very helpful.

In this group (not forum, which term might be confused with a webforum
which is an unpopular concept to some/many newsgroup users) there is a
significant amount of 'sporgery'/forgery, which is sometimes 'spoofing'
or playfully pretend forging and sometimes 'genuine' forgery aimed at
making a post which looks very similar to another poster's to mislead
the unwary.

In order to combat that problem, those who are frequently sporged/forged
have often taken measures to identify their posts, which identification
of course can only be found in the headers.

Corliss often posts from ccountry.net which stamps his IP in the NPH
which deters effective forgery. (Except) When he posts from
eternal-september, there is nothing to deter someone else using the free
e-s server because of the method of e-s handling its headers to
obfuscate the identification of the e-s account. Similarly your
astraweb provider obfuscates its X-Trace line for your account
identification.

Naturally you should be suspicious of any message which is posted from a
mail2news anonymizer.

Similarly Bear posts from news.sunsite.dk which also posts an NPH to
help distinguish his posts from sporgery.

If you are disinclined to 'glance' at headers, you will find yourself
sometimes misled about who/ which persona/ you think you are replying to.

I might also be misled here if I am not familiar with the headers of a
participating persona.


--
Mike Easter

[MiniMouse]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in
news:9pajeb...@mid.individual.net:

Thanks very much for the detailed explaination. Unfortunately, most of
it went *way* over my head. However I feel like I'm slowly learning. I
just need to hang in and keep trying.

[p00h the kat]

Reading headers adds to the amusement, recommended.

--
p-00-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass Sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker

[p00h the kat]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 04:00:19 -0800, "John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Please note that several forgeries and much trolling via sock puppets
>are being posted to this group through the Glorb anonymous newsfeed:
>
> http://glorb.net/

http://glorb.net/aup.php

You are such an idiot Corliss.

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> MiniMouse wrote:
>
>> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
>> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
>> forum.
>
> Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system, nor
> do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus
>
> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>
> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very helpful.

> (clipped)

Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms. You're wasting your
time replying to him.

[John Corliss]

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> MiniMouse trolled something:

>> John Corliss (ES) wrote:
>>>
>>> Please note that several forgeries and much trolling via sock puppets
>>> are being posted to this group through the Glorb anonymous newsfeed:
>>>
>>> http://glorb.net/
>>>
>>> Accordingly, I have added that domain to my signature file
>>>
>>> Note that I do NOT use that service or have an account with them. As
>>> always, I only post via Computer Country (who subcontracts Giganews as
>>> their news provider) and my account via Eternal-September.
>>
>> I don't understand. How do we know that the above message isn't a
>> forgery? How do we know where this message is coming from?
>
> If you look at the path header most simple forgeries are obvious.
> However John does seem to suffer from a touch of paranoia as he claims
> many if his messages are forgeries. Most people don't care. I think
> forgeries can be used for marketing as they often start a discussion.

Stephen, you're correct that it's simple for people to identify
forgeries by looking at the path header. The trick is to realize that
path headers can only be altered by adding stuff to the right of the
injection point entry.

However, your remark that "John does seem to suffer from a touch of
paranoia as he claims many if his messages are forgeries" makes no
sense. Obviously, if anybody knows when a forgery is posted in my name
*I* would. And yes, you're right that people don't care and I realize
that. That's why I include *FORGERY* in the subject line, so that they
can easily create filters for such replies. If they're too lazy to
filter that stuff out, then ...oh well.

As for who actually WOULD care about whether or not a message is
actually from me or not, mainly they would be people new to this group.
Unfortunately though, they're a seriously diminishing quantity thanks to
all the trolling and other activities by fools like Pooh the Cat, Chris
Caputo and some idiot down in Phoenix, AZ.

As for your use of the term "paranoia", you need to re-examine the
definition for that term. I am most certainly NOT imagining that trolls
are forging posts from me.

Finally, your remark that "forgeries can be used for marketing as they
often start a discussion" coincides precisely with a forged message from
Why Tea (Message-ID
<31896757.4299.1328519596518.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqma6>),
with the subject line "Something like ThumbHTML?" The message was
obviously posted with the direct intent to get somebody to reply that
Google's product (which I will not name here) would do the job. Also,
one would have to ask, what's wrong with ThumbHTML? It's only donationware.

[p00h the kat]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:23:59 -0800, John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms.

See a doctor Corliss. MiniMouse is not one of my nyms.

*** IT'S A MOUSE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!! ***

[Johnny Screwloose]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:11:25 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

Mike, minimouse is a newbie and one of John Corliss' nyms. You're wasting your
time replying to him until he's had his fix of Wheetos.

--
Johnny Screwloose BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, share,

spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me, please.

Freeware- legally obtainable, local install computer programs which you
may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Because of Googlespam, I block almost everything from Google Groups. I
also usually block as much as possible from anonymous remailers and
feeds, and other such rogue services because forger-trolls use them:

aioe.org
alt.net
anonymous (look for it in the Path header)
datemas.de
dizum.com
ecn.org
enfer-du-nord.net
frell.theremailer.net
glorb.net (look for it in the Path header) <--------NEW!
mail2news (look for it in the Path header)
mixmaster.*
mixmin (look for it in the Path header)
octanews.net
open-news-network.org

Corliss or any of its variants (look for it in the Subject or From headers)

[MiniMouse]

John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fsCdndD4wbBdZq3S...@posted.ccountrynet:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>> MiniMouse wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
>>> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
>>> forum.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system,
>> nor do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus
>>
>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>
>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very
>> helpful.
>> (clipped)
>
> Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms. You're wasting your
> time replying to him.
>

Hi Johnzi,

You and Ronzi give a lot of detailed tech information about how we can
identify forgeries and trolls, but you can't even see that I am ME and
not somebody else. With all your tech expertise you can't even do that.
You don't have much credibility as for as I'm concerned if that's the
best you can do.

Maybe I'm replying to a forgery?

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> MiniMouse wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
>>> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
>>> forum.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system, nor
>> do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus
>>
>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>
>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very helpful.
>> (clipped)
>
> Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms.

Prove it.

Or, short of your actually being able to prove it, even give some weak
evidence for your opinion.

AND

> You're wasting your time replying to him.

When someone/I post a reply to a message, I am not having a private
conversation with the persona attributed. I am selecting words which
someone posted which I then use as a context to post my own message,
which is then read by whoever, not just the attributed.

AND

Your concept of how to advise people about reading a newsgroup using
uber-filtration is daft, and your decision to so (wrongly) advise by
using a rude abusively excessive sig file is even more daft.


--
Mike Easter

[MiniMouse]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pcqo8...@mid.individual.net:

Wow! Thanks for writting that. It's what I would have liked to have
written myself if I knew enough about how all this header stuff works.
I still can't see anyting in Xnews that looks like show or view headers.

[p00h the kat]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:28:24 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

>> Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms.
>
>Prove it.
>
>Or, short of your actually being able to prove it, even give some weak
>evidence for your opinion.

Mike, MiniMouse is really Incredulous. This is now considered a priori, although it
started as a synthetically induced proposition that Scaly Ron concluded was not factually
falsifiable during a part psychotropic, part hallucinogenic trance he had last winter,
when he licked the back of a Sonoran toad he was mating with.

What a shag that was.

[Nicetameetya]

[Default] On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:23:59 -0800, John Corliss
<q34w...@yahoo.com> told us in complete confidence:

>Mike Easter wrote:
>> MiniMouse wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
>>> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
>>> forum.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system, nor
>> do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus
>>
>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>
>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very helpful.
>> (clipped)
>
>Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms. You're wasting your
>time replying to him.

John - I'm not convinced minimouse is one of Catshit's sockpuppets,
but I'm totally convinced minimouse is a Troll.

[p00h the kat]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:21:23 +1300, Nicetameetya <gd...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>John - I'm not convinced minimouse is one of Catshit's sockpuppets,
>but I'm totally convinced minimouse is a Troll.

You and Corliss are trolls. No one needs to be convinced of that.

[John Corliss]

Of course I'm not forging myself, you idiot.

Your suspicious acquiescence in the face of overwhelming proof has been
noted. I won't forget this.

--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag,

share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me,
please.

Freeware- legally obtainable, local install computer programs which
you may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you
wish.

Because of Googlespam, I block almost everything from Google Groups.
I also usually block as much as possible from anonymous remailers
and feeds, and other such rogue services because forger-trolls use
them:

aioe.org
alt.net
anonymous

datemas.de
dizum.com
ecn.org
enfer-du-nord.net
frell.theremailer.net
glorb.net

ccounty.net <--------NEW!
mail2news
mixmaster.*
mixmin
octanews.net
open-news-network.org
Pooh or any of its variants (look for it in the Subject or From headers)
reece.net.au
remailer

[MiniMouse]

Nicetameetya <gd...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:9pdbt5Fi3jU1
@mid.individual.net:

> John - I'm not convinced minimouse is one of Catshit's sockpuppets,
> but I'm totally convinced minimouse is a Troll.
>

Why? Because I didn't quietly accept the abuse dumped on me?

[Mike Easter]

MiniMouse wrote:
> Mike Easter

>>>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>>>
>>>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very
>>>> helpful.

> I still can't see anyting in Xnews that looks like show or view headers.

Try H.

Here's an old n.s.r thread with the late beloved Blinky in command. The
thread also implies there is a headers tool icon/button.

http://groups.google.com/group/news.software.readers/browse_thread/thread/02b5e9c89cd86dba/f6c3fb25cdccfa7f?hl=en#f6c3fb25cdccfa7f
or http://goo.gl/Gez8z
From: Blinky the Shark
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: [Xnews] Full Headers Won't Go Away
Date: 25 Aug 2007 00:54:11 GMT


--
Mike Easter

[p00h the kat]

Are you under the illusion that notsonice came to that conclusion through any kind of
rational process.. LOL

[MiniMouse]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pdldh...@mid.individual.net:

> MiniMouse wrote:
>> Mike Easter
>
>>>>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>>>>
>>>>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very
>>>>> helpful.
>
>> I still can't see anyting in Xnews that looks like show or view
>> headers.
>
> Try H.

That worked!!! Thank you very much.

> Here's an old n.s.r thread with the late beloved Blinky in command.
> The thread also implies there is a headers tool icon/button.

I also found the icon that corresponds to the "H" action. When I hit the
"H" I noticed the icon change and saw that it also reveals the headers.

Here are your headers:

Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!
feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-03.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!news-
1.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
Subject: Re: (OT) Forgeries are being posted to this group via Glorb.net.
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:03:30 -0800
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <9pdldh...@mid.individual.net>
References: <jgofd1$d2j$1...@dont-email.me>
<Xns9FF14CD723B7DM...@216.151.153.59>
<gkmvi7djajkohj7ds...@4ax.com>
<Xns9FF1649D5CA8DM...@216.151.153.39> <9pajebFjffU1
@mid.individual.net> <fsCdndD4wbBdZq3S...@posted.ccountrynet>
<9pcqo8...@mid.individual.net> <Xns9FF27B1CF8CEDMiniMouseinvalidnet@
216.151.153.161>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net I2h4PF+R0Na4K1K/UjLgZw7d9BehyY2UqdRFcHHJ7X3R94FN2A
Cancel-Lock: sha1:lVfaVYipfvgH05CEiWwdJgB6CYM=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120202
Thunderbird/11.0
In-Reply-To: <Xns9FF27B1CF8CEDM...@216.151.153.161>



Thanks very much for the tip!

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> MiniMouse wrote:

>> I still can't see anyting in Xnews that looks like show or view headers.
>
> Try H.
>
> Here's an old n.s.r thread

Here's an even more specific n.s.r thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/news.software.readers/browse_thread/thread/f238474e657966ac/430dc124d2370cfd?
or http://goo.gl/0UE8A
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: (Xnews) viewing complete headers
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:32 GMT


snippages from the thread:

<Stephen Hust> With the article open, press the "h" key.

<Blinky>
Do an Alt-k and look at your shortcut keybindings for other basic stuff.

Then explore the Main Menu structure. There's stuff you need there,
too.

And read any .txt file you find in your xnews subdirectory. That's
documentation.

Alternate for displaying full headers, if you're more mousey than
keyboardy: one of the buttons above the headers pane does the same
thing.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

MiniMouse wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> Try H.
>
> That worked!!! Thank you very much.

YW.

--
Mike Easter

[iNcReDuLoUs]

p00h the kat <supe...@IPaddress.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:28:24 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms.
>>
>>Prove it.
>>
>>Or, short of your actually being able to prove it, even give some weak
>>evidence for your opinion.
>
> Mike, MiniMouse is really Incredulous. This is now considered a
> priori, although it started as a synthetically induced proposition
> that Scaly Ron concluded was not factually falsifiable during a part
> psychotropic, part hallucinogenic trance he had last winter, when he
> licked the back of a Sonoran toad he was mating with.
>
> What a shag that was.

Yes he seemed to have had quite a trip. A baaaad trip.

I should probably start posting a 'Simpsons' "I didn't do it!" from an
'(ES)' account to disavow any knowledge of my doppelgangers' actions.

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> MiniMouse wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems that checking headers is a lot of work to do. Besides, I
>>>> don't know how to do it using Xnews. I'm new to Xnews and this
>>>> forum.
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: I don't use xnews nor have it installed on any system, nor
>>> do I know whether your replies to Corliss are genuine or bogus
>>>
>>> To show headers View/ Show all headers
>>>
>>> To get help with xnews, the group news.software.readers is very helpful.
>>> (clipped)
>>
>> Mike, minimouse is a troll and one of Pooh's nyms.
>
> Prove it.
>
> Or, short of your actually being able to prove it, even give some weak
> evidence for your opinion.

It's not worth my time. Most people who are regulars in this group know
that Minimouse is just another troll. If you don't believe me, then
simply sort the posts in this group by sender and review Minimouse's
posts. You'll find little other than trolling and ad hominem idiocy.

> AND
>
>> You're wasting your time replying to him.
>
> When someone/I post a reply to a message, I am not having a private
> conversation with the persona attributed. I am selecting words which
> someone posted which I then use as a context to post my own message,
> which is then read by whoever, not just the attributed.

Snipped portion which is addressed by the last line of my signature file.

Mike (if that really is you), talk to whoever you like. However, if I
start seeing that you're reposting too much quoted spew from the trolls,
I'll just filter out everything from you at that point.

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> When someone/I post a reply to a message, I am not having a private
>> conversation with the persona attributed. I am selecting words which
>> someone posted which I then use as a context to post my own message,
>> which is then read by whoever, not just the attributed.

> Mike (if that really is you), talk to whoever you like.

<saracasm> Thanks for your permission to do so. </saracasm>

> However, if I start seeing that you're reposting too much quoted spew
> from the trolls, I'll just filter out everything from you at that
> point.

Anytime you want to filter me, go right ahead. Don't 'warn' or threaten
me with your kf as a measure to modify how or when I post. I consider
your kf ideas a joke/daft anyway.

How would it sound to you if I 'threatened' to kf you unless you get rid
of that stupid rudely excessive sig?


--
Mike Easter

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>>> When someone/I post a reply to a message, I am not having a private
>>> conversation with the persona attributed. I am selecting words which
>>> someone posted which I then use as a context to post my own message,
>>> which is then read by whoever, not just the attributed.
>
>> Mike (if that really is you), talk to whoever you like.
>
> <saracasm> Thanks for your permission to do so. </saracasm>

And just exactly how *should* I have worded that? My intent was to relay
to you that I don't have any control over who you choose to talk to or not.

>> However, if I start seeing that you're reposting too much quoted spew
>> from the trolls, I'll just filter out everything from you at that
>> point.
>
> Anytime you want to filter me, go right ahead. Don't 'warn' or threaten
> me with your kf as a measure to modify how or when I post.
>

> How would it sound to you if I 'threatened' to kf you?

By all means, filter me out if you like. I could care no less.

[p00h the kat]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 03:53:02 -0800, John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Mike (if that really is you),

Ah! you got me again. It was me. Although, I am you. If it wasn't for the Chinese walls in
my mind, you would know that.

> talk to whoever you like. However, if I
>start seeing that you're reposting too much quoted spew from the trolls,
>I'll just filter out everything from you at that point.

Nice threat, I bet he's trembling in his boots.

[MiniMouse]

John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in

news:xpudneHXD6eC_6_S...@posted.ccountrynet:

> It's not worth my time. Most people who are regulars in this group
> know that Minimouse is just another troll. If you don't believe me,
> then simply sort the posts in this group by sender and review
> Minimouse's posts. You'll find little other than trolling and ad
> hominem idiocy.
>

Considering that I got mugged walking in the door because you and Ronzi
didn't like how/who I quoted, I haven't had much time to do anything but
defend myself and resist the bullying from the two of you.

I am now what you created: a reaction to you thuggery.

[wasbit]

"John Corliss" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:K6ydnSLMB7Ce9a_S...@posted.ccountrynet...

> Mike Easter wrote:
>> John Corliss wrote:
>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>>>

Well that worked perfectly.

The troll MiniMouse got two long time regulars at each other's throats.

Regards
wasbit

[MiniMouse]

"wasbit" <wasbit(REMOVE-THIS)@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:jgu00e$p9n$1...@dont-email.me:

A perfect example of blaming the victim.

Perhaps Mr. Easter didn't like the way Johnzi was treating him and
decided not to be acquiescent?

[Craig]

It couldn't have scripted a better performance. Sadly.

--
-Craig
http://pricelesswarehome.org/

[Bear]

It's what some of us were trying to get across to Mike. Sadly he didn't
see it.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail

[Mike Easter]

Bear wrote:
> Craig wrote:
>> wasbit wrote:
>>> "John Corliss"

>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Easter wrote:


>>> Well that worked perfectly.
>>>
>>> The troll MiniMouse got two long time regulars at each other's throats.
>>
>> It couldn't have scripted a better performance. Sadly.
>>
> It's what some of us were trying to get across to Mike. Sadly he didn't
> see it.

There's way too much sadness and credit/discredit in these 3 analyses,
in /my/ opinion of course. You people with contrasting opinions get to
opine however you like - of course of course.


--
Mike Easter

[p00h the kat]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:24:01 -0600, Bear <bearbott...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2/8/2012 9:20 AM, Craig wrote:
>> On 02/08/2012 06:14 AM, wasbit wrote:
>>> "John Corliss" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:K6ydnSLMB7Ce9a_S...@posted.ccountrynet...
>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> Well that worked perfectly.
>>>
>>> The troll MiniMouse got two long time regulars at each other's throats.
>>
>> It couldn't have scripted a better performance. Sadly.
>>
>It's what some of us were trying to get across to Mike. Sadly he didn't
>see it.

This disgusting comment is stereotypical of what we have come to expect from Goons.

Mike isn't the sad one here, you are.

Corliss lied. He claimed MiniMouse was my nym, and Mike called him on it.

Proof that you have now joined the cult you professed to fight.

Squirm your way out of that.

[p00h the kat]

Corliss lied, MiniMouse is not one of my nyms. Most of Corliss' posts are lies. His sig is
a lie. The subject is another lie. The remailer posts aren't through Glorb. Feel free to
support the idiot if you like.

[Craig]

Mike;

Pretending "you people" is some lumpen indistinguishable mass ignores
the problem John is attempting to address. Forgeries and trolls drive
down the utility of the newsgroup: for me and a lot of other
contributers here.

John's method is... messy but your response appears, to me, akin to
pretending the problem doesn't exist. Am I missing something?

If you have a better solution, I'm all ears.

--
-Craig
http://pricelesswarehome.org/

[p00h the kat]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:50:39 -0800, Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>Pretending "you people" is some lumpen indistinguishable mass

Read this thread, and you'll see there's no pretense. You're a gang, hoping your aggregate
IQ will ensure victory. Sadly for you, it doesn't work that way.

>ignores the problem John is attempting to address.
>Forgeries and trolls drive
>down the utility of the newsgroup: for me and a lot of other
>contributers here.

Then stop forging, and trolling.

>John's method is... messy

John hasn't got any 'method' as in scientific method. He's a fucking mess, reduced to
lying, and pimping half truths, sure in the knowledge they will be hailed as magical by
dumb arsed camp followers like yourself.

Hanging on to other's shirt tails is for fools. Get a life.

> but your response appears, to me, akin to
>pretending the problem doesn't exist. Am I missing something?

I doubt it Goony, you just want to win the argument, and shepherd Mike back into the fold.

<pulls up chair>

[Mike Easter]

Craig wrote:
> On 02/08/2012 07:51 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
>> Bear wrote:
>>> Craig wrote:
>>>> wasbit wrote:
>>>>> "John Corliss"
>>>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> Well that worked perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> The troll MiniMouse got two long time regulars at each other's
>>>>> throats.
>>>>
>>>> It couldn't have scripted a better performance. Sadly.
>>>>
>>> It's what some of us were trying to get across to Mike. Sadly he didn't
>>> see it.
>>
>> There's way too much sadness and credit/discredit in these 3 analyses,
>> in /my/ opinion of course. You people with contrasting opinions get to
>> opine however you like - of course of course.
>
> Mike;
>
> Pretending "you people" is some lumpen indistinguishable mass ignores
> the problem John is attempting to address. Forgeries and trolls drive
> down the utility of the newsgroup: for me and a lot of other
> contributers here.

This group has a big problem with forgeries, nym shifting and trolls.

The indefinite 'you people' was one group of unknown size/number which
have a different opinion of the above; the definite 3 was more specific
about sadness and credit/discredit in the exchange just above.

> John's method is... messy but your response appears, to me, akin to
> pretending the problem doesn't exist. Am I missing something?

I strongly disagree with John's -1- filtration strategy -2- methods of
conveying his personal opinion of a filtration strategy which leads to
-3- his personal opinion of the wisdom of modifying the purpose of what
should be a very very short sig into something outlandish, offensive,
and rude.

My disagreements with those Corliss styles and choices go way back, not
just this little skirmish.

> If you have a better solution, I'm all ears.

I don't think people should 'engage with' various undesirable behaviors...

BUT, that being said, in some ways there is not a great difference
between a 'stranger'/ new visitor/persona who is asking a legitimate
question which isn't too far off-topic and a nym-shifted not-new persona
who is asking the same question in the same way.

If I feel there is value in answering a question, I will answer it even
if it might be a nym-shifter who is unfamiliar to me as opposed to a
genuine new face who is similarly unfamiliar to me.

The other thing I disagree with around here and in some other groups is
the strong tendency to form 'alliances' and cliques with these personae
on this 'team' and those personae on that other opposing team.

I don't want to be ON anybody's team, and I don't want to be
against/opposed to someone else's team, whether that is over
free/priceless ware power struggles or personality clashes.

Most of the time I choose to identify trolls and forgeries (which isn't
the same as nymshifting of course) 'mentally' rather than configuring my
news reader.

That does open the door to my 'un-ignoring'/ noticing/ replying to/
something that maybe someone else (or someone else's clique) wishes I
had never seen.

AND neither you nor I are using a news server which identifies us well
enough so that either you or I can be sure we are *actually* talking
to/at the persona with whom we think we are familiar.

I am also somewhat 'annoyed' by the tendency of some people to
'overdiagnose' the concept of what is a so-called troll. There are a
lot of different kinds of 'undesirable' behaviors that don't rise to the
level of the classic flame-baiting troll, depending on your definition
of classic.


--
Mike Easter

[Bear]

On 2/8/2012 12:01 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> The other thing I disagree with around here and in some other groups is
> the strong tendency to form 'alliances' and cliques with these personae
> on this 'team' and those personae on that other opposing team.

I agree with you on that note. I to do not participate in alliances and
cliques (understatement). I also do not hold grudges as some folks
think. I take it as it comes and goes.

Rather than turn the other cheek or bury my head, I will address topics
which I think will improve the group as a whole through dialogue about it.

I was only trying to help Mike and I do understand and have no problem
with your assessment or ideology (not that it should matter to
you)...and agree with most of it.

I don't see it as helpful to this group to respond to anything to the
likes of Pooh, MiniMouse etc.-the known trolls forgers and nymshifters,
and yes they are all that. As far as I've determined, John Stubbins is
Pooh and the rest. At any rate, it is as one persona.

[p00h the kat]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:34:17 -0600, Bear <bearbott...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I don't see it as helpful to this group to respond to anything to the
>likes of Pooh, MiniMouse etc.-the known trolls forgers and nymshifters,
>and yes they are all that. As far as I've determined, John Stubbins is
>Pooh and the rest. At any rate, it is as one persona.

I was posting here long before you popped in newbie. I started writing freeware way before
that, in fact before PC's were born I think.

Who the fuck do you think you are poncing around declaring who is/not a troll? 'As far as
you have determined' don't make me laugh, none of you goons have a clue who's who here.

You and your goonie chums can kiss the trolls arse's on your way out.

Toodles.

[Scaly Ron]

On 08 Feb 2012 07:38:59 GMT, iNcReDuLoUs <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>I should probably start posting a 'Simpsons' "I didn't do it!" from an
>'(ES)' account to disavow any knowledge of my doppelgangers' actions.

You were my best friend. I trusted you, but your true nature was revealed to me as I
squatted dangerously dehydrated, with a large crystal between my legs, munching on
psychotropic cactus.

--
This message is posted by Scaly Ron, and is intended as a caution for new and
casual users of the original Alt.Comp.Freeware Usenet group. To avoid being
bothered by these messages please add "Trollguardian <trollg...@invalid.invalid>" to
your killfile or filter list. Please email me at mo...@invalid.net if you
have comments or questions.

[Ron May]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:34:17 -0600, Bear <bearbott...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't see it as helpful to this group to respond to anything to the
> likes of Pooh, MiniMouse etc.-the known trolls forgers and nymshifters,
> and yes they are all that.

The good thing, though, is that responses to trolls from regular ACF
participants are approaching near zero. Two, maybe three, actual persons
combined spew perhaps dozens of garbage messages daily, but are reduced to
talking among themselves and an army of sock puppets. A gentle nudge to
new participants is generally enough to keep the "trolls forgers and
nymshifters" from gaining any traction. By their own outrageous behavior,
they have succeded in isolating and marginalizing themselves as "real life"
losers inevitably do, which forces them into being more outrageous in an
attempt to gain attention, which only creates further self-isolation.

Yhey're in a trap of their own making, and frankly that's where they
belong. We can ignore them, but they can't ignore us. When they respond
to posts such as this one, they only prove the point for us that their only
intent is to attempt to disrupt ACF and the normal activities of the group.
It's not necessary to make a case that they are "trolls forgers and
nymshifters" because they prove that themselves by their own actions. John
Morrison said it best in a recent post:

> Thanks for your tip. I'm discovering that some people don't add anything
> to newsgroups and as I don't want to be regarded as being within that
> group of people, I won't be replying to any more Pussy posts.

Can you say "winning"? <g>

--
Ron May - may...@hotmail.com - Ubuntu/Vista Dual Boot
Registered Linux User #511161 - Ubuntu User #33236 (11.10)
ACF "Silver Lining": http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7365303/ACF/SL.html

[John Corliss]

I will break my silence on my signature file because Mike is making such
an issue of it.

Mike Easter wrote:
>
> I strongly disagree with John's -1- filtration strategy -2- methods of
> conveying his personal opinion of a filtration strategy which leads to
> -3- his personal opinion of the wisdom of modifying the purpose of what
> should be a very very short sig into something outlandish, offensive,
> and rude.

Okay Mike, just EXACTLY what is:

A. Outlandish
B. Offensive
C. Rude

about my signature file? I'm not looking for quotes from nebulous
netiquette websites, I want to know EXACTLY what makes my signature file
fit fall under each of those adjectives.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the domains listed in my signature file are used in
this group EXCLUSIVELY to troll and forge. Why then, is it rude to
recommend that anything originating from them be filtered out by regular
participants? I'm not holding a fucking gun to anybody's head, they can
choose to filter or not to filter. It's their business. However, I fully
intend to continue using my signature file in the hope of alerting some
new person to what's going on in ACF before they give up and go away
because of all the trollspew.

Frankly, the only people I can think of who would object to such
filtering are those who use those services TO troll and forge in this group.

> My disagreements with those Corliss styles and choices go way back, not
> just this little skirmish.
>
>> If you have a better solution, I'm all ears.
>
> I don't think people should 'engage with' various undesirable behaviors...

If somebody if forging posts from me and using my actual email address
to do so, you're GOD DAMNED RIGHT that I'm going to protest and let the
group know this is going on. And as I've mentioned before, I include
"*FORGERY*" in the subject lines of my replies so that the messages can
be easily filtered out by anybody with half a brain.

> The other thing I disagree with around here and in some other groups is
> the strong tendency to form 'alliances' and cliques with these personae
> on this 'team' and those personae on that other opposing team.

Don't be ridiculous. By saying this you are simply stating that you're
opposed to common human behavior. It's unavoidable human (and other
species as well) nature to form groups based on shared beliefs and moral
values.

> I don't want to be ON anybody's team, and I don't want to be
> against/opposed to someone else's team, whether that is over
> free/priceless ware power struggles or personality clashes.

Then you will perpetually be an outsider.

> Most of the time I choose to identify trolls and forgeries (which isn't
> the same as nymshifting of course) 'mentally' rather than configuring my
> news reader.

Good for you. That's your choice. You have as much right to promote your
preference as *I DO* mine.

> That does open the door to my 'un-ignoring'/ noticing/ replying to/
> something that maybe someone else (or someone else's clique) wishes I
> had never seen.
>
> AND neither you nor I are using a news server which identifies us well
> enough so that either you or I can be sure we are *actually* talking
> to/at the persona with whom we think we are familiar.
>
> I am also somewhat 'annoyed' by the tendency of some people to
> 'overdiagnose' the concept of what is a so-called troll. There are a lot
> of different kinds of 'undesirable' behaviors that don't rise to the
> level of the classic flame-baiting troll, depending on your definition
> of classic.

Oh bullshit. Trolling is trolling and it always follows these guidelines:

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

Our resident trolls use nym-shifting, altered headers, anonymous
remailers and feeds, rogue news servers, and various other methods to
enhance their abilities to disrupt and otherwise pester this newsgroup.

That you're basically taking the side of the trolls is disappointing and
surprising to me. That is, assuming that you ARE Mike Easter in the
first place and frankly, I'm beginning to have my doubts.

[p00h the kat]

Take a look at Google groups, and see who's winning Ron.

Do you think I care whether John Morrison will ever speak to me again... or Maritos
Sereno, or any of the +1's?

What do you think I can lose? I spend my days doing stuff you can't imagine, and like most
of the trolls do niche stuff probably no one here can help with.

If you think your rag tag band of hillbilly amateurs is of any value you are most
certainly wrong. There's hardly any talent worth shit on your side.

We are predators, and you are our game.

Your day is over old man. We ain't gonna take any more of your crapola.

Play on.

[Ron May]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:01:15 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

> The other thing I disagree with around here and in some other groups is
> the strong tendency to form 'alliances' and cliques with these personae
> on this 'team' and those personae on that other opposing team.
>
> I don't want to be ON anybody's team, and I don't want to be
> against/opposed to someone else's team, whether that is over
> free/priceless ware power struggles or personality clashes.

Just some food for thought, Mike, offered on a "take it or leave it" basis,
but sometimes it's not about choosing to belong to one "team" or another. A
common misconception is that there are *ALWAYS* two sides to any story.
Sometimes there's only one side and it boils down to a clear and simple
choice between right and wrong.

How does one find merit in the rationalizations of a child molester?

How could one defend the placing of a bomb on a loaded school bus?

What we have in ACF is nothing approaching that in scale, of course, but it
does point out that it's not a matter of "opposing teams" when one or
several individuals are the ONLY ones engaging in forgery; when they're
the ONLY ones using the cover of anonymous or rogue servers to carry out
acts that would get them banned from legitimate services; when they're the
ONLY ones whose stated intent is to deliberately attempt to create as much
disruption and distraction as possible in an effort to harm this group
rather than contribute to it in a meaningful way.

Each participant has to sort things out on their own, but I have a hard
time understanding how some can view the trolls, socks and forgers as
simply being an opposing "team" who has an alternate yet somehow legitimate
point of view. ISTM that interacting with them as one would with the real
contributors to ACF isn't being "neutral" or not belonging to one "team" or
another, but a case of tacitly condoning and approving their actions.

Standard "YMMV" disclaimer applies of course.

[p00h the kat]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:36:11 -0600, Ron May <may...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:01:15 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The other thing I disagree with around here and in some other groups is
>> the strong tendency to form 'alliances' and cliques with these personae
>> on this 'team' and those personae on that other opposing team.
>>
>> I don't want to be ON anybody's team, and I don't want to be
>> against/opposed to someone else's team, whether that is over
>> free/priceless ware power struggles or personality clashes.
>
>Just some food for thought, Mike, offered on a "take it or leave it" basis,
>but sometimes it's not about choosing to belong to one "team" or another. A
>common misconception is that there are *ALWAYS* two sides to any story.
>Sometimes there's only one side and it boils down to a clear and simple
>choice between right and wrong.
>
>How does one find merit in the rationalizations of a child molester?
>
>How could one defend the placing of a bomb on a loaded school bus?
>
>What we have in ACF is nothing approaching that in scale, of course

Don't play words games with me Scaly. Nothing approaching, nothing whatsoever like your
disgusting analogy. You're mind is a stinking cesspool of manipulative lexiconography.

>but it
>does point out that it's not a matter of "opposing teams" when one or
>several individuals are the ONLY ones engaging in forgery;

You're a corrupt toad, who makes unsubstantiated allegations against other posters without
a shred of evidence and fails to apologise when proved wrong. Two cases in point were your
false allegations about me and the x-privat forgeries, and accusing Incredulous of being
MiniMouse.

>when they're
>the ONLY ones using the cover of anonymous or rogue servers to carry out
>acts that would get them banned from legitimate services;

You have no evidence of that either, and we have substantial circumstantial which proves
otherwise. We don't need a corrupt spirit to guide us, just facts.

>when they're the
>ONLY ones whose stated intent is to deliberately attempt to create as much
>disruption and distraction as possible in an effort to harm this group
>rather than contribute to it in a meaningful way.

Your megalomania doesn't contribute to ACF in any meaningful way whatsoever.

** CENSORSHIP *** is totally inappropriate in a freeware group.

>Each participant has to sort things out on their own, but I have a hard
>time understanding how some can view the trolls, socks and forgers as
>simply being an opposing "team" who has an alternate yet somehow legitimate
>point of view.

Our view is the legitimate view. This is an unmoderated newsgroup. Piss off if you don't
like it.

>ISTM that interacting with them as one would with the real
>contributors to ACF

You aren't in any sense more legitimate contributors than the so called trolls. In fact
you are the reverse. Your tactics to gang up on people who offer opposing views is
legendary. Grow up and accept others can teach you stuff.

>isn't being "neutral" or not belonging to one "team" or
>another, but a case of tacitly condoning and approving their actions.

You don't scare us bully boy. We can scale this operation any time we like. You are going
to lose. You already have. You're a corrupt son of a bitch. I'm going to fuck with you so
bad you're going to wish you had never started this.

>Standard "YMMV" disclaimer applies of course.

--

[Mike Easter]

Ron May wrote:
> Bear

<snip>

>> Thanks for your tip. I'm discovering that some people don't add anything
>> to newsgroups and as I don't want to be regarded as being within that
>> group of people, I won't be replying to any more Pussy posts.

Your message reference and attribution indicates that Bear said that,
but he didn't say that in the referenced message.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> I will break my silence on my signature file because Mike is making such
> an issue of it.

Better that you would have fixed you sig file to reply to me.

> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> I strongly disagree with John's -1- filtration strategy -2- methods of
>> conveying his personal opinion of a filtration strategy which leads to
>> -3- his personal opinion of the wisdom of modifying the purpose of what
>> should be a very very short sig into something outlandish, offensive,
>> and rude.
>
> Okay Mike, just EXACTLY what is:
>
> A. Outlandish
> B. Offensive
> C. Rude
>
> about my signature file?

It is *extremely* excessively long. It is trying to convey a giant
message that is not the purpose of a sig, making it outlandish. An
excessive sig is rude (and thus offensive) because it is not in keeping
with usenet netiquette guidelines.

> I'm not looking for quotes from nebulous
> netiquette websites,

You want/ are asking for an answer, but you want to disqualify countless
articles which have been written on usenet netiquette and excessive
sigs? That means that you don't think the world of usenet netiquette
guidelines applies to you or this group.

> I want to know EXACTLY what makes my signature file
> fit fall under each of those adjectives.

See above. Outlandish by its extreme length. Offensive and rude because
it does not conform to netiquette guidelines.

This isn't about my disagreement with your *own* personal method of
filtering -- you can filter how you like. This is about your own
personal choice of what kind/dimension of sig file to use in 'violation'
of all known netiquette guidelines on suggested sig length.

In my opinion a sig should be one or two short lines maxium, not 4 long
ones as some netiquette guides suggest.

> EVERY SINGLE ONE of the domains listed in my signature file are used in
> this group EXCLUSIVELY to troll and forge. Why then, is it rude to
> recommend that anything originating from them be filtered out by regular
> participants? I'm not holding a fucking gun to anybody's head, they can
> choose to filter or not to filter. It's their business. However, I fully
> intend to continue using my signature file in the hope of alerting some
> new person to what's going on in ACF before they give up and go away
> because of all the trollspew.

You act like you are doing a favor to a.c.f, when in fact your messages
are offensive in their own right. Any time your own messages offend
ordinary people, then you become part of the undesirable behavior that
'we' should avoid engaging.

That is, my replying to your message here is further out of line for me
than my recent replying to the MiniMouse. My posts to minimouse were
more appropriate than my reply to you now, and I wish I weren't doing it
- replying to you.

If you want to tell people how to filter by using your methods, you
should post it (somewhere else) and simply put a link to that posting in
your sig.

> Frankly, the only people I can think of who would object to such
> filtering are those who use those services TO troll and forge in this
> group.

The business about how to filter is a personal choice. The business
about how you should post to this newsgroup is fodder for multiple
people's opinions which differ.

>> My disagreements with those Corliss styles and choices go way back, not
>> just this little skirmish.
>>
>>> If you have a better solution, I'm all ears.
>>
>> I don't think people should 'engage with' various undesirable
>> behaviors...
>
> If somebody if forging posts from me and using my actual email address
> to do so, you're GOD DAMNED RIGHT that I'm going to protest and let the
> group know this is going on. And as I've mentioned before, I include
> "*FORGERY*" in the subject lines of my replies so that the messages can
> be easily filtered out by anybody with half a brain.

What you do about forgeries is a different topic from this disagreement
about your outrageous outlandish offensive and rude sig.

<snip the rest of the non-sig ranty>


--
Mike Easter

[MiniMouse]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in news:9pi45iF7ikU1
@mid.individual.net:

> That is, my replying to your message here is further out of line for me
> than my recent replying to the MiniMouse. My posts to minimouse were
> more appropriate than my reply to you now, and I wish I weren't doing it
> - replying to you.
>

Mike,

I'm sorry to see that your kind effort to help me view the headers in Xnews
has brought you so much grief. It's is what I ran into when I came in the
door. Ron/John didn't like how or who I quoted. Unfortunately I wasn't
able to just grin and bear it. I'm weak that was sometimes.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and sorry for any aggrivation it has
brought you.

[Richard Steinfeld]

John,

You're providing a useful service. Keep it up. Just be a little
more clear: in other words, use "name," or "personna," not "nym."
"Nym" is jargon; newcomers probably don't know it or the concepts.

Regarding this guy; he's behaving like a troll. Just killfile him
and move on.

Please explain this path string "to the left of" business,
clearly and in more detail. I'm interested.

My killfile for this newsgroup is large, but it's working like a
charm. I'm using the built-in filter capabilies of Thunderbird,
which allows a person to easily set up custom header and other
criteria.

I've found that I have to block gmail and Google Groups
wholesale, not so much because of the trolls, but because these
sources contribute such a large amount of spam. It's just not
worth the trouble. If anyone on these services is reading these
words, please find another service to post from.

When the trolls' techniques are exposed, they act like their
bellies are gored, and step up their attacks, so I expect to be
impersonated and ridiculed. I'll see the summary in the filter
report, but I won't be troubled by their text venom nor the sheer
quantities of their filth, because the posts will have been
filtered out. I'm impressed with their dedication; a couple of
these guys appear to just sit there all day just spewing their
crap; they're so addicted, they won't even take any time out to
jerk off.

Works great. And the Thunderbird route is a hell of a lot easier
than coding in XNews or Nfilter.
Try it; you'll like it.

Richard

[MiniMouse]

Richard Steinfeld <rsteiTAKET...@sonic.net> wrote in
news:OPCdnc5meMIg2anS...@posted.sonicnet:

> John,
>
> You're providing a useful service. Keep it up.

I agree.

[p00h the kat]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:12:14 -0800, Richard Steinfeld <rsteiTAKET...@sonic.net>
wrote:

>John,
>
>You're providing a useful service. Keep it up. Just be a little
>more clear: in other words, use "name," or "personna," not "nym."
>"Nym" is jargon; newcomers probably don't know it or the concepts.

What newcomers. Any that arrive get called trolls, and they are off.

>Regarding this guy; he's behaving like a troll. Just killfile him
>and move on.

Mike Easter is a troll now. Ha. <weep>

>Please explain this path string "to the left of" business,
>clearly and in more detail. I'm interested.

Being 'interested in anything Corliss says' is the new stupid. Corliss is gaga. He hasn't
a clue how anything works. Then again, apart from styli and keystroke friendly text
editors, neither have you.

>My killfile for this newsgroup is large, but it's working like a
>charm. I'm using the built-in filter capabilies of Thunderbird,
>which allows a person to easily set up custom header and other
>criteria.
>
>I've found that I have to block gmail and Google Groups
>wholesale, not so much because of the trolls, but because these
>sources contribute such a large amount of spam. It's just not
>worth the trouble. If anyone on these services is reading these
>words, please find another service to post from.

>When the trolls' techniques are exposed, they act like their
>bellies are gored, and step up their attacks, so I expect to be
>impersonated and ridiculed. I'll see the summary in the filter
>report, but I won't be troubled by their text venom nor the sheer
>quantities of their filth, because the posts will have been
>filtered out. I'm impressed with their dedication; a couple of
>these guys appear to just sit there all day just spewing their
>crap; they're so addicted, they won't even take any time out to
>jerk off.

We're so dedicated, we type in boxing gloves.

>Works great. And the Thunderbird route is a hell of a lot easier
>than coding in XNews or Nfilter.
>Try it; you'll like it.
>
>Richard

[Bear]

On 2/9/2012 4:12 PM, Richard Steinfeld wrote:
> Works great. And the Thunderbird route is a hell of a lot easier than
> coding in XNews or Nfilter.
> Try it; you'll like it.

What is the coding you use...I'm interested.

[Mike Easter]

Richard Steinfeld wrote:

> Please explain this path string "to the left of" business, clearly and
> in more detail. I'm interested.

This next is your message's Path: as received by my newsreader from
news.individual.net NIN, except that I have added spaces after the bangs
(exclamation marks) so that it will wrap better.

Path: uni-berlin.de! fu-berlin.de! postnews.google.com!
news2.google.com! Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!
nntp.giganews.com! local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.posted.sonicnet!
news.posted.sonicnet.POSTED! not-for-mail

A normal Path shows the stamps of the handling servers starting from the
right end going to the left.

So your message originated on the sonicnet server (news.sonic.net
works), passed thru' the giganews system, then google's and then to
NIN's which is also uni-berlin.de. The names as stamped don't have to
represent the 'real' name of the news server.

Generally the Path is 'true' and useful for determining the news server
source of something because most news servers will not allow/pass
someone posting a message with a 'preloaded' Path to confuse the picture
by putting bogus stuff on the right end.

Many parts of nntp headers are very easily forged, but some are less so,
such as the NPH when present and all or part of the Path will be true if
any bogus preloading is eliminated.



--
Mike Easter

[p00h the kat]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:34:31 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

>Generally the Path is 'true' and useful for determining the news server
>source of something because most news servers will not allow/pass
>someone posting a message with a 'preloaded' Path to confuse the picture
>by putting bogus stuff on the right end.
>
>Many parts of nntp headers are very easily forged, but some are less so,
>such as the NPH when present and all or part of the Path will be true if
>any bogus preloading is eliminated.

Corliss is alleging Glorb.net is doing that. A few weeks ago it was alt.net. Where's the
evidence.

He claims mixmin anywhere in the path proves the post is through a remailer whereas mixmin
is a relay.

This just confuses people Mike. Corliss is for all intents, and purposes just plain wrong.

[Mike Easter]

p00h the kat wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Generally the Path is 'true' and useful for determining the news server
>> source of something because most news servers will not allow/pass
>> someone posting a message with a 'preloaded' Path to confuse the picture
>> by putting bogus stuff on the right end.
>>
>> Many parts of nntp headers are very easily forged, but some are less so,
>> such as the NPH when present and all or part of the Path will be true if
>> any bogus preloading is eliminated.
>
> Corliss is alleging Glorb.net is doing that. A few weeks ago it was alt.net. Where's the
> evidence.
>
> He claims mixmin anywhere in the path proves the post is through a remailer whereas mixmin
> is a relay.
>
> This just confuses people Mike. Corliss is for all intents, and purposes just plain wrong.

I see an earlier discussion about this message (headers only here):

Path: uni-berlin.de! fu-berlin.de! news.glorb.com! news.alt.net!
news.dizum.com! sewer-output! mail2news
Date: 12 Jan 2012 17:40:50 -0000
Message-ID: <N73SJ0Y94092...@reece.net.au>
From: John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Troll Alert
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
References: <1o2sg797le5admbv2...@4ax.com>
<jelf7c$9lc$1@dont-emaiQ
<Xns9FD8668D3ECF1M...@216.151.153.44>
X-Remailer-Contact: ab...@reece.net.au (English Only Please)
X-CC-Diagnostic: Body has all "limited, time, only" (40)
Mail-To-News-Contact: ab...@dizum.com
Organization: mail...@dizum.com
Lines: 56
Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.comp.freeware:771112


Because there is so much flexibility in the nntp headers as opposed to
smtp stamping, there is less certainty in the analysis of the 'totality'
of the headers. Generally with email headers I can virtually always
diagnose forgeries in the tracelines; but with nntp headers, I think
we/I have to say, "This is most likely what happened."

In the case of these headers, what most likely happened was that it was
a mail2news using the reece.net.au called kulin remailer to the dizum
gateway rather than there being 'forgery' (misleading information) in
the MID or bogus 'junk' lines in the bunch between the References and
the Lines...

... rather than ...

... an assumption/fabrication that the glorb/alt steps allowed the
preloading of the dizum business and that the aforementioned junk lines
were all forged as was the MID fabricated to mislead.

Similarly replacing those arguments with some other similar headers
which are mixmin instead of dizum; I don't see one of those handy right now.

I think viewing the headers as a totality, how it all hangs together (or
not) is the best way to approach nntp headers, realizing that one can be
all wrong because forged headers were designed to be so misleading in
their totality.



--
Mike Easter

[Ron May]

Sorry. I thought the line immediately above the quote (snipped in your
reply:

"John Morrison said it best in a recent post:"

... made the attribution clear, especially with the colon. If you missed
it, others probably did too. Guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

[Mike Easter]

Ron May wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> Your message reference and attribution indicates that Bear said that,
>> but he didn't say that in the referenced message.
>
> Sorry. I thought the line immediately above the quote (snipped in your
> reply:
>
> "John Morrison said it best in a recent post:"
>
> ... made the attribution clear, especially with the colon. If you missed
> it, others probably did too. Guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

Oh I see how you did it now. I should have seen that.


--
Mike Easter

[Spamblk]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pi45i...@mid.individual.net:

> John Corliss wrote:
<SNIP>

>> Okay Mike, just EXACTLY what is:
>>
>> A. Outlandish
>> B. Offensive
>> C. Rude
>>
>> about my signature file?
>
> It is *extremely* excessively long. It is trying to convey a giant
> message that is not the purpose of a sig, making it outlandish. An
> excessive sig is rude (and thus offensive) because it is not in keeping
> with usenet netiquette guidelines

According to http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/McQuary-limit.html

: Nowadays social pressure against long sigs is intended to avoid
: waste of human attention rather than machine bandwidth.
: Accordingly, the McQuary limit should be considered a rule of
: thumb rather than a hard limit; it's best to avoid sigs that are
: large, repetitive, and distracting. See also warlording.

And, also http://www.gamesforum.ca/showthread.php?t=337475&page=2

: And a sig delimiter that actually works properly null and voids
: any complaints for me anyway. Folk can, within reason, put what
: they want as long as I don't have to manually remove it when I
: reply to them. And some of its pretty funny stuff - I quite
: enjoy reading them.

A sig that contains the proper (--) delimiter displays in Xnews in a small
font. Xnews seems to be a fairly basic newsreader compared to, say, TB,
Forte etc so I presume that those newsreaders can be also configured to
minimize or perhaps eliminate the screen real estate taken by a
contributor's long sig.

In MY2CW a long sig is fairly easily disregarded and takes less bandwidth
than , for example, a short message that quotes all of a very long
message.

[Ron May]

No problem. In retrospect it would have been clearer to use quotation
marks as above instead.

[Mike Easter]

Spamblk wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> It is *extremely* excessively long. It is trying to convey a giant
>> message that is not the purpose of a sig, making it outlandish. An
>> excessive sig is rude (and thus offensive) because it is not in keeping
>> with usenet netiquette guidelines

> A sig that contains the proper (--) delimiter displays in Xnews in a small
> font. Xnews seems to be a fairly basic newsreader compared to, say, TB,
> Forte etc so I presume that those newsreaders can be also configured to
> minimize or perhaps eliminate the screen real estate taken by a
> contributor's long sig.
>
> In MY2CW a long sig is fairly easily disregarded and takes less bandwidth
> than , for example, a short message that quotes all of a very long
> message.

There are numerous newsreader configurations for coping with even
ordinary and appropriate sigs, which John's is not. Tbird's default
choice of coping with normal and delimited sigs is to display the sig in
the message display in a lighter font and then to autotrim the sig in
the reply.

The fact that there are newsreader coping configurations for all
delimited sigs doesn't create a license for anyone to abuse the use of a
sig file to autopost one's repetitive lengthy onerous message every time
a poster posts anything.

That is much worse than something like an every 4 hours autopost of a
group faq which frequency of autoposting is obviously much worse than a
/daily/ autopost of some group 'personal' filtering faq which is
obviously much worse than a twice weekly or once weekly autopost of such
a group filtering faq.

What is so hard about John finding a place to post his message and
putting a link to it and making it as long and informative as he would
like? That's what other people do about their big messages.

Autoposting a faq as sigfile everytime you post is rude and abusive. I
believe that he does it so that he can autorant against those who so
aggravate him all the time. It is like he is nagging at the entire group
because of his frustration. He just creates one more thing that needs
to be ignored by almost everyone. Even the people who believe it is a
good idea to filter like that don't need to see it every time he posts,
and those who don't know how to filter would be better served by a less
abusive manner of delivering the information.

And, agreeing with your quote remark, I too dislike bottom posting
untrimmed replies, which is quite comparable to top posting untrimmed
except that it is more trouble to find the non-contextualized bottom
posted new content than to find the non-contextualized top posted new
content.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Ron May wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> Oh I see how you did it now. I should have seen that.
>
> No problem. In retrospect it would have been clearer to use quotation
> marks as above instead.

I'm an aggressive trimmer; that time I trimmed too fast.

I spent some extra time searching the References for the source of those
'presumed to be nonattributed' lines when I should have been rereading
the whole post as it existed before my trimming started.


--
Mike Easter

[Quaalude]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:11:11 -0600, Ron May wrote:

> Can you say "winning"? <g>

"Winning at Usenet. Now there's something you can tell all your
grandkids proudly about.

[John Corliss]

Various snippages apply.

Mike Easter wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> I will break my silence on my signature file because Mike is making such
>> an issue of it.
>
> Better that you would have fixed you sig file to reply to me.

Don't hold your breath.

>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>> Okay Mike, just EXACTLY what is:
>>
>> A. Outlandish
>> B. Offensive
>> C. Rude
>>
>> about my signature file?
>
> It is *extremely* excessively long. It is trying to convey a giant
> message that is not the purpose of a sig, making it outlandish. An
> excessive sig is rude (and thus offensive) because it is not in keeping
> with usenet netiquette guidelines.
>
>> I'm not looking for quotes from nebulousnetiquette websites,

And yet, that's exactly what you did. Rather than explaining WHY my
signature is "outlandish, offensive and rude", you simply say that it is
and provide no reason.

> You want/ are asking for an answer, but you want to disqualify countless
> articles which have been written on usenet netiquette and excessive
> sigs? That means that you don't think the world of usenet netiquette
> guidelines applies to you or this group.

I discard them because they are dated in the extreme. Originally, long
signature files were a violation of netiquette because they meant that
providers had to pay for the bandwidth required to transmit them. That
was when bandwidth cost a lot more proportionally than it does now. In
these days of mega-bandwidths, that concern has been pretty much
rendered invalid.

>> I want to know EXACTLY what makes my signature file
>> fit fall under each of those adjectives.
>
> See above. Outlandish by its extreme length. Offensive and rude because
> it does not conform to netiquette guidelines.

I can keep this up as long as you can.

A. WHY is it "outlandish" because of its length and:
B. WHY is it "offensive and rude" because it doesn't conform to outdated
and no longer applicable netiquette guidelines.

> This isn't about my disagreement with your *own* personal method of
> filtering -- you can filter how you like. This is about your own
> personal choice of what kind/dimension of sig file to use in 'violation'
> of all known netiquette guidelines on suggested sig length.
>
> In my opinion a sig should be one or two short lines maxium, not 4 long
> ones as some netiquette guides suggest.

Well, opinions are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later every asshole has
'em. Even me. And MY opinion is that signature file length is something
that can easily be ignored.

>> EVERY SINGLE ONE of the domains listed in my signature file are used in
>> this group EXCLUSIVELY to troll and forge. Why then, is it rude to
>> recommend that anything originating from them be filtered out by regular
>> participants? I'm not holding a fucking gun to anybody's head, they can
>> choose to filter or not to filter. It's their business. However, I fully
>> intend to continue using my signature file in the hope of alerting some
>> new person to what's going on in ACF before they give up and go away
>> because of all the trollspew.
>
> You act like you are doing a favor to a.c.f, when in fact your messages
> are offensive in their own right.

A claim which you still have failed to explain to my satisfaction.

> Any time your own messages offend ordinary people, then you become part
> of the undesirable behavior that 'we' should avoid engaging.

Oh right, I'm sure that I'm just "offending" the hell out of people. Get
a grip.

> That is, my replying to your message here is further out of line for me
> than my recent replying to the MiniMouse. My posts to minimouse were
> more appropriate than my reply to you now, and I wish I weren't doing it
> - replying to you.

Then DON'T! You know how to use a killfile, I'm sure. If you dislike me
and my posts so much, simply filter them out! Otherwise, this is a waste
of both your time and mine.

> If you want to tell people how to filter by using your methods, you
> should post it (somewhere else) and simply put a link to that posting in
> your sig.
>
>> Frankly, the only people I can think of who would object to such
>> filtering are those who use those services TO troll and forge in this
>> group.
>
> The business about how to filter is a personal choice. The business
> about how you should post to this newsgroup is fodder for multiple
> people's opinions which differ.

That's a red herring in relation to my remark and you know it. Not only
that, but you say it like I disagree with those remarks and that's
bullshit. Of COURSE "the business about how to filter is a personal
choice" and as for the second statement, see my above remark about
hemorrhoids.

>> If somebody if forging posts from me and using my actual email address
>> to do so, you're GOD DAMNED RIGHT that I'm going to protest and let the
>> group know this is going on. And as I've mentioned before, I include
>> "*FORGERY*" in the subject lines of my replies so that the messages can
>> be easily filtered out by anybody with half a brain.
>
> What you do about forgeries is a different topic from this disagreement
> about your outrageous outlandish offensive and rude sig.
>
> <snip the rest of the non-sig ranty>

EOT, since it's obvious to me that you will never give me an acceptable
explanation for why my signature file is so "horrendous".

You can continue to rant and rave in this thread, but I won't be replying.

And my signature file will remain unchanged unless there are some
additions or deletions to the list of things which I recommend messages
be filtered on.

[p00h the kat]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:30:25 -0800, John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>EOT, since it's obvious to me that you will never give me an acceptable
>explanation for why my signature file is so "horrendous".
>
>You can continue to rant and rave in this thread, but I won't be replying.
>
>And my signature file will remain unchanged unless there are some
>additions or deletions to the list of things which I recommend messages
>be filtered on.

Thank God for that. Your signature gives trollism a raison d'etre. It's a troll magnet. A
red rag to the bull that drives ACF freedom fighting. It's an emblem that exemplifies
everything we hate about Goonyism. It's meat to us, but then you know that. You been
provoking conflict here for so long. It's what you live for.

Thanks anyhow Goony. Thanks. Duddits is just sooo right.

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> p00h the kat wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>> Generally the Path is 'true' and useful for determining the news server
>>> source of something because most news servers will not allow/pass
>>> someone posting a message with a 'preloaded' Path to confuse the picture
>>> by putting bogus stuff on the right end.
>>>
>>> Many parts of nntp headers are very easily forged, but some are less so,
>>> such as the NPH when present and all or part of the Path will be true if
>>> any bogus preloading is eliminated.
>>
>> Corliss is alleging Glorb.net is doing that. A few weeks ago it was
>> alt.net. Where's the evidence.

Altopia is (IMO) a rogue news service. It's run by a known troll, Chris
Caputo, and he is capable of just about anything if it causes disruption
in this group. As for the evidence, where's the evidence that Caputo is
NOT doing any bogus preloading?

>> He claims mixmin anywhere in the path proves the post is through a
>> remailer whereas mixminis a relay.

Mixmin is a free (anonymous) news server without a typical home page to
explain its policies and-or how to use it:

http://www.mixmin.net/

However, it's just an anonymous mail2news remailer in the end.

>> This just confuses people Mike. Corliss is for all intents, and
>> purposes just plain wrong.
>
> I see an earlier discussion about this message (headers only here):
>
> Path: uni-berlin.de! fu-berlin.de! news.glorb.com! news.alt.net!
> news.dizum.com! sewer-output! mail2news
> Date: 12 Jan 2012 17:40:50 -0000
> Message-ID: <N73SJ0Y94092...@reece.net.au>
> From: John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [OT] Troll Alert
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
> References: <1o2sg797le5admbv2...@4ax.com>
> <jelf7c$9lc$1@dont-emaiQ
> <Xns9FD8668D3ECF1M...@216.151.153.44>
> X-Remailer-Contact: ab...@reece.net.au (English Only Please)
> X-CC-Diagnostic: Body has all "limited, time, only" (40)
> Mail-To-News-Contact: ab...@dizum.com
> Organization: mail...@dizum.com
> Lines: 56
>

> Because there is so much flexibility in the nntp headers as opposed to
> smtp stamping, there is less certainty in the analysis of the 'totality'
> of the headers. Generally with email headers I can virtually always
> diagnose forgeries in the tracelines; but with nntp headers, I think
> we/I have to say, "This is most likely what happened."

Yes, I am aware of this and what I do to more or less confirm my
criticism of a domain is to test filter it. If filtering on that domain
in the path statement improves readability of the group for me, then I
add it to the list.

> In the case of these headers, what most likely happened was that it was
> a mail2news using the reece.net.au called kulin remailer to the dizum
> gateway rather than there being 'forgery' (misleading information) in
> the MID or bogus 'junk' lines in the bunch between the References and
> the Lines...

In your opinion. And I disagree.

> ... rather than ...
>
> ... an assumption/fabrication that the glorb/alt steps allowed the
> preloading of the dizum business and that the aforementioned junk lines
> were all forged as was the MID fabricated to mislead.
> Similarly replacing those arguments with some other similar headers
> which are mixmin instead of dizum; I don't see one of those handy right
> now.
>
> I think viewing the headers as a totality, how it all hangs together (or
> not) is the best way to approach nntp headers, realizing that one can be
> all wrong because forged headers were designed to be so misleading in
> their totality.

And yet, the filtering I recommend in my signature file continues not
only to work for me but for others as well.

--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, share,
spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me, please.

Freeware- legally obtainable, local install computer programs which you
may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Because of Googlespam, I block almost everything from Google Groups. I
also usually block as much as possible from anonymous remailers and
feeds, and other such rogue services because forger-trolls use them:

aioe.org
alt.net
anonymous (look for it in the Path header)
datemas.de
dizum.com
ecn.org
enfer-du-nord.net
frell.theremailer.net
glorb.net (look for it in the Path header)

[MiniMouse]

John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:LZGdnTQ45-pOYqnS...@posted.ccountrynet:

> Various snippages apply.
>
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> John Corliss wrote:
>>> I will break my silence on my signature file because Mike is making
>>> such an issue of it.
>>
>> Better that you would have fixed you sig file to reply to me.
>
> Don't hold your breath.
>

That was rude.

[Spamblk]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pjcde...@mid.individual.net:

> There are numerous newsreader configurations for coping with even
> ordinary and appropriate sigs, which John's is not. Tbird's default
> choice of coping with normal and delimited sigs is to display the sig in
> the message display in a lighter font and then to autotrim the sig in
> the reply.

> The fact that there are newsreader coping configurations for all
> delimited sigs doesn't create a license for anyone to abuse the use of a
> sig file to autopost one's repetitive lengthy onerous message every time
> a poster posts anything.

The thing is, in an unmoderated newsgroup there are no licenses. If you
agree that newreaders cope with sigs (whether short or long) by reducing/or
changing the font size and style then you might also want to consider
further to what degree that makes the sig easily ignored enough to put up
with it.

> That is much worse than something like an every 4 hours autopost of a
> group faq which frequency of autoposting is obviously much worse than a
> /daily/ autopost of some group 'personal' filtering faq which is
> obviously much worse than a twice weekly or once weekly autopost of such
> a group filtering faq.

In some web based forums I visit, there are "sticky" posts (typically
generic information or messages from moderators) that appear at the top of
the page. And being at the top of the page means some scrolling to get to
the real (perhaps a poor choice of word) posts. OTOH a long sig that
appears like a footer in a different font can be ignored with less
scrolling.

> What is so hard about John finding a place to post his message and
> putting a link to it and making it as long and informative as he would
> like? That's what other people do about their big messages.

One objection I can think of relates to an issue of privacy: When you click
on a link you might inject into a server log somewhere your user-agent
string, your OS, preferred language, referrer header, your IP address,
anything else in the packet headers etc. No thanks. And if John replaces
his sig with one of those goo.gl links, I would rather avoid clicking on
it. For me, I prefer a sig to a link. But others MMV & do use links I
agree. There is a dropbox link about a list of contributors to this NG. I
have not clicked on it, I am only aware of what it might contain from
messages posted to this NG.

> Autoposting a faq as sigfile everytime you post is rude and abusive. I
> believe that he does it so that he can autorant against those who so
> aggravate him all the time.

We can have our opinions and beliefs of course. But what John's motives are
is something I do not know for sure as a fact.

> It is like he is nagging at the entire group
> because of his frustration. He just creates one more thing that needs
> to be ignored by almost everyone.

Easily ignored IMO, and IME less annoying than for example having to scroll
up to read path: information.

> Even the people who believe it is a
> good idea to filter like that don't need to see it every time he posts,
> and those who don't know how to filter would be better served by a less
> abusive manner of delivering the information.

I understand that for some readers in this NG, long sigs may be an
annoyance. This NG has different annoyances for many I suspect but it is
also a good place to visit for general information on freeware. In some
cases I have downloaded and other cases not bothered to download software
arising from information posted here to this NG.

Perhaps it might be an idea not to post a long sig attached to all
messages, but in an unmoderated NG its a personal choice.

> And, agreeing with your quote remark, I too dislike bottom posting
> untrimmed replies, which is quite comparable to top posting untrimmed
> except that it is more trouble to find the non-contextualized bottom
> posted new content than to find the non-contextualized top posted new
> content.

On a related point Xnews displays a warning dialogue asking to confirm
posts that containing 60% or more quoted text.

>
> --
> Mike Easter

[Quaalude]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:30:25 -0800, John Corliss wrote:

> I can keep this up as long as you can.

No fair, you're stroking it.

[MiniMouse]

Quaalude <Quaa...@hushmail.com> wrote in news:jh3gst$n9d$1...@dont-email.me:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:30:25 -0800, John Corliss wrote:
>
>> I can keep this up as long as you can.
>
> No fair, you're stroking it.
>

LOL!!! That was funny!

[Craig]

On 02/10/2012 04:14 AM, John Corliss wrote:
> the filtering I recommend in my signature file continues not only to
> work for me but for others as well

Yea, it is the single most useful doc for making this ng an enjoyable
read (again). Fwiw, I find the long .sig to be annoying. Right up
there with the need to clip my toenails.

An annoyance, to be sure, but it beats
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001439835/Long_Toe_Nails_xlarge.jpeg

--
-Craig
http://pricelesswarehome.org/

[Mike Easter]

Spamblk wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> That is much worse than something like an every 4 hours autopost of a
>> group faq which frequency of autoposting is obviously much worse than a
>> /daily/ autopost of some group 'personal' filtering faq which is
>> obviously much worse than a twice weekly or once weekly autopost of such
>> a group filtering faq.

<snip webforum sticky comparison>

>> What is so hard about John finding a place to post his message and
>> putting a link to it and making it as long and informative as he would
>> like? That's what other people do about their big messages.

> For me, I prefer a sig to a link. But others MMV& do use links I
> agree.

If the target audience is anyone who pops into the newsgroup and who is
afraid to click on a link found in a news message and is looking for an
answer to the forgeries and trolls and nymshifting problem, that
audience would be better served by a regular freestanding 'autopost'
which has a subject specifying an answer to the problem of forgeries and
trolls.

I don't see any reason that message would need to be posted more than
once a day so that it could be recognized and intentionally opened and
read and appreciated by those who want it and need it. Such an
'autopost' would not carry the anti-netiquette anti-siglimits abuse
qualities that the current style causes

>> Autoposting a faq as sigfile everytime you post is rude and abusive. I
>> believe that he does it so that he can autorant against those who so
>> aggravate him all the time.
>
> We can have our opinions and beliefs of course. But what John's motives are
> is something I do not know for sure as a fact.

I'm sure he feels that the trolls and forgers are spoiling the group and
he wants desperately to counteract that effect and in his zeal he feels
that whatever he does, no matter how egregiously it violates acccepted
usenet behavior, it is justified by the evil of his adversaries.

My 'beef' isn't so much with what he has to say, altho' that isn't my
personal opinion of how I would do it, but how he 'goes about' saying it
in a sig and how often he goes about saying it over and over and over
and over again multiple times per day or hour.

Wouldn't once a day be plenty, more than enough, for anyone to find,
especially if it had its own purposeful subject. In some ways that
would be even better for his purpose than putting a link in his sig.

Or he could put a brief reference to his daily autopost subject in his
sig. And if he wanted to feel 'good about' doing his anti-troll duty,
he could take pleasure in posting that message every day.

>> It is like he is nagging at the entire group
>> because of his frustration. He just creates one more thing that needs
>> to be ignored by almost everyone.
>
> Easily ignored IMO, and IME less annoying than for example having to scroll
> up to read path: information.

It would be infinitely better and more appropriate as a message in its
own right with a simple and finite frequency, such as once a day.

>> Even the people who believe it is a
>> good idea to filter like that don't need to see it every time he posts,
>> and those who don't know how to filter would be better served by a less
>> abusive manner of delivering the information.
>
> I understand that for some readers in this NG, long sigs may be an
> annoyance. This NG has different annoyances for many I suspect but it is
> also a good place to visit for general information on freeware. In some
> cases I have downloaded and other cases not bothered to download software
> arising from information posted here to this NG.
>
> Perhaps it might be an idea not to post a long sig attached to all
> messages, but in an unmoderated NG its a personal choice.

John's posting misbehavior repetitively excessive sig can be considered
a corollary to the frequent misbehavior of his adversaries here.



--
Mike Easter

[p00h the kat]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:56:42 -0800, Craig <netbu...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>Yea, it is the single most useful doc for making this ng an enjoyable
>read (again).

Bollocks, even if it was correct, which it isn't, it snips much of the best stuff.

[p00h the kat]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:28:50 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

>John's posting misbehavior repetitively excessive sig can be considered
>a corollary to the frequent misbehavior of his adversaries here.

Oh! yes, and they love making him jump with his *** FORGERY *** followups. It's a hoot.
Really. Payback. Revenge.

Anyhow, he's a willing player. He knows this. He's been told enough. He knows how to
behave but refuses to do so. He'd rather provoke. That's the reality.

He's just as responsible for the troubles as the trolls. Probably more so. Every troll I
have had correspondence with says the same. They all just got fecked off with the crapola,
the sanctimonious bullshit, that oozes from the festering sore that is Cronyism. Same MO.
Someone calls them a troll, then all the +1's pile in, and Voila, a troll is born.

Trolls are made, not born in ACF. That's the way it is.

Answer. Lance the boil.

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:

> If the target audience is anyone who pops into the newsgroup and who is
> afraid to click on a link found in a news message and is looking for an
> answer to the forgeries and trolls and nymshifting problem, that
> audience would be better served by a regular freestanding 'autopost'
> which has a subject specifying an answer to the problem of forgeries and
> trolls.

> he could put a brief reference to his daily autopost subject in his
> sig. And if he wanted to feel 'good about' doing his anti-troll duty, he
> could take pleasure in posting that message every day.

Researching this further; John's agent of choice is Tbird.

Tbird has a 'templates' function.

He could create a message addressed to acf, with a Subject such as
Remedies for trolls and forgers and place in the body of the message an
even more thorough development of his ideas about how to filter and use
the Path, MID, or From/Subject lines which are currently found in his sig.

Then he would use Tb's Save as/ Template function, which would save that
message 'as is' including the subject and this group.

Then each day when he first prepares to engage this newsgroup he could
access the Templates folder, open his acf filtering template message and
send it. The message is sent and the template is retained in the
Template folder for repeat duty next time.

I've tested it. It works fine.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_FAQs_:_Using_Templates Creating
and using templates

In his sig he could put a reference to Subject: Remedies for trolls and
forgers.



--
Mike Easter

[p00h the kat]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:14:22 -0800, Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:

>In his sig he could put a reference to Subject: Remedies for trolls and
>forgers.

You haven't a hope in hell, and anyway Corliss is undoubtedly ACF's longest serving troll,
and I see no mention of ccountry.net There's also just as much evidence for Corliss being
a forger as there is me.

I'd rather you didn't perpetuate the myth that Corliss has something worth saying because
he hasn't really, but hey, it's Usenet, you can say what you like.

However you choose to wrap it, it's provocational to have a clique of forked tongued goons
running campaigns to get you killfiled. It's not a crime to post from any of those
servers, or post anonymously. Who is John Corliss anyway. Nobody.

[note the absence of a gang of trolls piling in to call you a troll for breathing, or
having an opinion]

[Richard Steinfeld]

John, you're providing a good service. This guy is behaving like
a troll, provoking you.
Just killfile him. I already have done so.

Richard

[TG]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:59:18 -0800, Richard Steinfeld <rsteiTAKET...@sonic.net>
wrote:

+111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

--
Scaly moRon May - mo...@hotmail.com - Ubuntu/Vista Dual Boot
Registered Linux User #666- Ubuntu User #666(11.10)
ACF "Shit Lining": http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7365303/ACF/SL.html

[VOR DME]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:59:18 -0800, Richard Steinfeld wrote:

> John, you're providing a good service. This guy is behaving like a

> troll, provoking you. Just blow him off. I already have done so.
>
> Dickmeat

Pics or nothing.

[John Corliss]

Well, despite Mike's demeanor sometimes, he is a "good guy" and provides
a lot of help to people. His posts are generally worth reading.

Today he's recommending that I autopost a message every day instead of
using a signature file to list the filtering elements I recommend. IMO,
identical autoposts are AKA spam, so that's not really a good idea.

Besides, when the trollspew gets too heavy in this group, I always do
post a message about how to filter it out. However, I do edit the
message every time I send it out and they're not identical. That's not
the reason I edit them but it just works out that way. I edit the
messages to delete and add information as it changes. For instance,
these days it's looking like tioat.net is dead, but I could be wrong.

--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, share,
spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me, please.

Freeware- legally obtainable, local install computer programs which you
may use at no cost, monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish.

Because of Googlespam, I block almost everything from Google Groups. I
also usually block as much as possible from anonymous remailers and
feeds, and other such rogue services because forger-trolls use them:

aioe.org
alt.net
anonymous (look for it in the Path header)
datemas.de
dizum.com
ecn.org
enfer-du-nord.net
frell.theremailer.net
glorb.net (look for it in the Path header)

[John Corliss]

Craig wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> the filtering I recommend in my signature file continues not only to
>> work for me but for others as well
>
> Yea, it is the single most useful doc for making this ng an enjoyable
> read (again). Fwiw, I find the long .sig to be annoying. Right up there
> with the need to clip my toenails.
>
> An annoyance, to be sure, but it beats
> http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001439835/Long_Toe_Nails_xlarge.jpeg

Not your feet, I hope.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0706/ldisgust_0604.jpg

As for my signature file, it annoys me that I have to do it in the first
place. But I can't think of a better way to get the info out there.

As for long signature files in general, IMO any objections to them are
based on outdated reasoning. When I asked Mike Easter to provide
specific reason why long signature files are bad, he could pretty much
only say that they're a violation of netiquette. WHY they are a
violation of netiquette remains to be explained.

OTOH, generally speaking, long signature files serve no purpose and
there's not much need for them. In the case of my signature file and IMO
though, it's necessary. Maybe some day ACF will be troll free and I can
drop it.

[p00h the kat]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:38:13 -0800, John Corliss <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Maybe some day ACF will be troll free

Piss off. That will cut a large percentage of it.

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:

> Well, despite Mike's demeanor sometimes, he is a "good guy" and provides
> a lot of help to people. His posts are generally worth reading.
>
> Today he's recommending that I autopost a message every day instead of
> using a signature file to list the filtering elements I recommend. IMO,
> identical autoposts are AKA spam, so that's not really a good idea.

Help me understand how a daily message with your filter guidelines is
looked upon negatively by you, while the same content piled into your
sig file and posted *numerous* times per day or hour is a better less
offensive solution.

All that stuff is a message or a faq, not a sig add-on.

Even if you just keep your freeware definition position, along with a
reference to the filter message's subject, your sig is going to be long,
without any of the filter information content.

Another advantage to putting it into a message is that you wouldn't have
to restrict your filter part content to the current 27 lines, but you
could be more explanatory/helpful.

And you would be able to remove the part which says you aren't going to
try to explain why all that crap doesn't belong in a sig.


--
Mike Easter

[ebony]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:14:57 -0800, in alt.comp.freeware John Corliss
wrote:

>
> Mixmin is a free (anonymous) news server without a typical home page to
> explain its policies and-or how to use it:
>
> http://www.mixmin.net/
>
> However, it's just an anonymous mail2news remailer in the end.

Peace to you. I hastily reply to advise Mixmin is widely used in Nigeria as
a freeposting server for supporting for SSL. Not for remailing.
Nigerian ISPs are corruptible and fraudulent interceptors are at work on
many Networks, so SSL is a characteristic very desirable in Mixmin.

Pass this informations on so I am not tarnished with your brush. I mean all
in peace.

--
The disastrous January masscres will not stop harmony
Reply online

[-==垂<{弓>遙==-]

You aren't on the whitelist brother.

Peace be with you.

[Mike Easter]

ebony wrote:

> I hastily reply to advise Mixmin is widely used in Nigeria as
> a freeposting server for supporting for SSL.

Other free SSL & TLS news servers:

news.solani.org The server listens on TCP-port 119 for unencrypted
connections and TCP-port 563 for encrypted connections.

news.albasani.net & reader.albasani.net SSL ports
NNTPS news.albasani.net 563 yes
NNTPS reader.albasani.net 443
NNTPS reader.albasani.net 563

news.eternal-september.org
Port : 563 (encrypted connection NNTPS)

news.aioe.org & nntp.aioe.org
nntp.aioe.org which opens the following ports:
119 (Plain Text and TLS)
563 (SSL Only)
443 (SSL Only)
22 (SSL Only)
80 (Plain Text and TLS)
news.aioe.org which listens the following ports:
119 (Plain Text and TLS)
563 (SSL only)



--
Mike Easter

[Dustin]

Spamblk <Zap...@SpamMeNot.invalid> wrote in
news:jh3fbu$b85$1...@news.albasani.net:

> The thing is, in an unmoderated newsgroup there are no licenses. If
> you agree that newreaders cope with sigs (whether short or long) by
> reducing/or changing the font size and style then you might also want
> to consider further to what degree that makes the sig easily ignored
> enough to put up with it.

I'm an Xnews user myself, it allows me to easily ignore sigs or keep them
if I like. It's configured to reduce fontsize and color them at the
bottom. This beats sticky posts in forums, imo.

--
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too
many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and
the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J.C. Watts

[Quaalude]

Nothing. Simple choice in this case.

[Quaalude]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:21:38 -0800, John Corliss wrote:

> Well, despite Mike's demeanor, sometimes he is a "good guy" and

> provides a lot of help to people. His posts are generally worth
> reading.

Common Hitler mantra.

[Quaalude]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:41:40 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> Corlisss, help me understand how a daily message with your filter

> guidelines is looked upon negatively by you, while the same content
> piled into your sig file and posted *numerous* times per day or
> hour is a better less offensive solution.
>
> All that stuff is a message or a faq, not a sig add-on.

Help? You don't understand the enormous egos that populate ACF? Large
sig files are their representation, fer fukks sake, *a* sig file is a
representation.

Give Corliss a break. Living on the extremely limityed military dole
in a one room cabin in dire poverty doesn't leave one many choices of
self expression.

[Hägar]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:08:49 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> news.aioe.org which listens the following ports:
> 119 (Plain Text and TLS)
> 563 (SSL only)

heh does more than listen heh

[Spamblk]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pl2eh...@mid.individual.net:


<snipped for brevity>

> If the target audience is anyone who pops into the newsgroup and who is
> afraid to click on a link found in a news message and is looking for an
> answer to the forgeries and trolls and nymshifting problem, that
> audience would be better served by a regular freestanding 'autopost'
> which has a subject specifying an answer to the problem of forgeries and
> trolls.

...

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote in

news:9pl53u...@mid.individual.net:

> Researching this further; John's agent of choice is Tbird.
>
> Tbird has a 'templates' function.
>

Excuse the snipping, I'm not sure I can add anything much new to this issue
& also have only briefly tried TB for usenet. Some readers will not like
long sigs. This thread has listed a fair amount of the pros, cons and
alternate suggestions. Readers can make up their minds.

But to clarify a related issue concerning shortened links, I half read (so
may be proved wrong) a thread I think it was in this NG a while back
related to certain kinds of these shortening links that can be used via
some kind of analytics process or procedure to gather visitor information.
If true it could mean that clicking a goo.gl style link to Wikipedia would
log the visit to Wikipedia in two places rather than Wikipedia alone. But
whether or not the above is well founded, I only find shortened URLs
appropriate for URLs longer than 80 characters or the obvious case where a
print magazine uses a shortened url to save reader's typing. Avoiding links
altogether is of course is a non runner if you want to try out new
freeware.

On the wider point about placing a hyperlink in a sig whether shortened or
not Xnews IME does not automatically forward hyperlinks and for me, its
easier to read up to 20 or maybe 30 lines of neatly laid out text from a
sig(but maybe not 100 lines - its a matter of degree and opinion of
course), than copying a url from a usenet client to a browser navagation
toolbar window. Others MMV.

[Spamblk]

Dustin <bughunte...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9FF69A09296DEHHI2948AJD832@no:

> I'm an Xnews user myself, it allows me to easily ignore sigs or keep
> them if I like. It's configured to reduce fontsize and color them at
> the bottom. This beats sticky posts in forums, imo.

I have briefly tried Thunderbird and while it has better filtering and
UTF-8 handling etc. I am quite used to the way Xnews displays threads and
at present find it the most convenient way to browse usenet. As you noted
it allows sigs to be delimited quite well too.

[Mike Easter]

Spamblk wrote:
> Mike Easter

>> If the target audience is anyone who pops into the newsgroup and who is
>> afraid to click on a link found in a news message and is looking for an
>> answer to the forgeries and trolls and nymshifting problem, that
>> audience would be better served by a regular freestanding 'autopost'
>> which has a subject specifying an answer to the problem of forgeries and
>> trolls.

> I only find shortened URLs appropriate for URLs longer than 80
> characters

Some newsreaders break/fold links routinely or by default. Some of those
link-folding newsreaders can be induced by the well-informed user to
avoid that problem, but in any case it is common practice for some
people to post broken/folded links.

Those people should additionally post a shortened link, preferably a
previewable one in addition to posting a broken link, so that the reader
can choose whether they want to put the broken link back together by
hand (or with their newsreader if it affords that) or if they want to
click the shortened link.

> On the wider point about placing a hyperlink in a sig whether shortened or
> not Xnews IME does not automatically forward hyperlinks and for me, its
> easier to read up to 20 or maybe 30 lines of neatly laid out text from a
> sig(but maybe not 100 lines - its a matter of degree and opinion of
> course), than copying a url from a usenet client to a browser navagation
> toolbar window. Others MMV.

It would similarly be easy for you to read a legitimately posted message
like that (only if you wanted to purposely read that message) instead of
downloading and displayhing it multiple times a day in a long sig every
time you read one of John's messages.

If my newsagent had an additonal option besides displaying the sig in a
lighter color to cause my agent to *not* display the sig, I would choose
to display the sig in light color and auto trim it for replies, as is
the Tb default rather than not display the sig at all.

That is, creating an excessive sig is going to result in it being
displayed by virtually everyone who displays that poster's messages,
whether they want to download and display that person's excessive sig or
not. The only option the reader has is to not display such a poster's
messages at all; whereas if John posted his filter guidelines in an
independent message, then not only would the appropriate information be
appropriately labeled and identified for the interested reader, but also
all the rest of the readers could choose to read it or not read it.

It would be a much more polite way for John to treat the general group.

Else it becomes, 'if you don't want to download and display my sig every
time you read any of my messages, then killfile me.' That seems rude and
autocratic to me.


--
Mike Easter

[Bear]

On 2/11/2012 5:23 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> Spamblk wrote:
>> Mike Easter
>
>>> If the target audience is anyone who pops into the newsgroup and who is
>>> afraid to click on a link found in a news message and is looking for an
>>> answer to the forgeries and trolls and nymshifting problem, that
>>> audience would be better served by a regular freestanding 'autopost'
>>> which has a subject specifying an answer to the problem of forgeries and
>>> trolls.
>
>> I only find shortened URLs appropriate for URLs longer than 80
>> characters
>
> Some newsreaders break/fold links routinely or by default. Some of those
> link-folding newsreaders can be induced by the well-informed user to
> avoid that problem, but in any case it is common practice for some
> people to post broken/folded links.
>
> Those people should additionally post a shortened link, preferably a
> previewable one in addition to posting a broken link, so that the reader
> can choose whether they want to put the broken link back together by
> hand (or with their newsreader if it affords that) or if they want to
> click the shortened link.

I agree this is the best approach. I used to use tinyURL preview, but
now it it easier to use goo.gl so I post both. For those that don't use
either, I sometimes elect not to visit the link because of it.

John is more stubborn than I am. He has every right to do it as his
stubbornness dictates...and we have every right to manage it any way we
wish. I don't see where it matters that much and both of you have good
argument. I use Thunderbird mostly and sometimes XNews and both manage
fine with his sig.

--
Bear
http://bearware.info
The real Bear's header path is:
news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail

[p00h the kat]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:41:28 -0600, Bear <bearbott...@gmail.com> wrote:

>John is more stubborn than I am. He has every right to do it as his
>stubbornness dictates...and we have every right to manage it any way we
>wish. I don't see where it matters that much and both of you have good
>argument. I use Thunderbird mostly and sometimes XNews and both manage
>fine with his sig.

He deserves to be forged. His sig is just as offensive as the forgeries.

He's fucking inaccurate. He's a fucking sectarianist. He's a fucking liar. A fucking
idiot, and a fucking drama queen. Fuck him.