Christianity, the Dragon
guardian Snow
Even today this prophetic statement rings true.
Act 23:6 Now Sha’ul, perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the
other Pharisees, cried out in the council, “Men, brothers, I am a
Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…
How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
"inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie
unto his glory…
A lie is still a lie. The problem that I personally see with the
teachings of Paul vs the Messiah is that while the Messiah taught us
not to judge one another, everything I read in Paul is judgmental and
a Pharisee.
A clear example of how Paul is still preaching as a Pharisee is seen
here:
Mat 9:10 And it came to be, as Yehoshua sat at the table in the house,
that see, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him
and His taught ones.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His taught ones,
“Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
1Co 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone
called ‘a brother,’ if he is one who whores, or greedy of gain, or an
idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler – not even to eat
with such a one.
Mat 9:12 And Yehoshua hearing this, said to them, “Those who are
strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Mat 9:13 “But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and
not offering.’ For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance,
but sinners.”
When we put the teachings side by side, it’s clear to all except the
many “Christian Pharisee’s” in the world today that are a student of
this Pharisee. What does our heavenly Father tell us in his Torah?
Let’s break it down, First we know:
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take
away from it, so as to guard the commands of Yahweh your Elohim which
I am commanding you.
Isn’t it ironic that they took his name YAHWEH out of the very verse
that says not to alter it? We are not to add or take away from the
Torah. This specifically means the book of Deuteronomy, not the
entire collection of books known as the bible. We can be assured of
that here:
Deu 4:8 “And what great nation is there that has such laws and
righteous right-rulings like all this Torah which I set before you
this day?
Since Paul wasn’t written until thousands of years later, we know the
two are not connected in the command so continue with me please:
Deu 4:9 “Only, guard yourself, and guard your life diligently, lest
you forget the Words your eyes have seen, and lest they turn aside
from your heart all the days of your life. And you shall make them
known to your children and your grandchildren.
How many Christians have forgotten the words of this book? We carry
it around day and night and yet, most don’t know or care what it says
and treat it with disregard as if it’s something written only for that
tribe in the wilderness.
Exo 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger
who sojourns among you.”
So, if you consider yourself a person serving our Father, that one
Torah is for you too. Now what is the “Law of Moses” as Christians
call it? You see, most people want to say that it is 613 laws that no
one is able to keep but what does the Torah say?
Deu 4:13 “And He made known to you His covenant which He commanded you
to do, the Ten Words, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
The TEN COMMANDMENTS are the covenant! So, Just like the Messiah
preached, if you want to enter into life, guard the commandments! How
simple is that? The sign of the “Church of the Dragon” is the church
that has bitterly fought against the 10 commandments. THE CHRISTIAN
CHURCH! Every pastor that preaches against the Sabbath is unknowingly
or willingly a part of the false church!
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to
fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of
Elohim and possessing the witness of Yehoshua Messiah.
YOU my dear reader may be a part of that very church. It is a bitter
pill to think that all these years, WE have been the false church. I
do not tell you this to accuse you but to inform you. Who will be
saved?
Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those
guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yehoshua.
Those who guard the commandments are the ones set apart for our
heavenly father. The only reason that the church of the dragon
refuses to accept the truth is over ONE issue, THE SABBATH. For at
least a thousand years Rome has dictated to you what is scriptures and
told you what you are to consider, “the way of [Yahweh] יהוה” but
many do not even know his name and probably call him “GOD” or “LORD
GOD ALMIGHTY”. But that was not the name given to him and for
thousands of years, we have not had access to the truth.
A common cry of the “Church of the Dragon” is that it has been this
way for 2000 years but that’s not true either. The scriptures were not
even canonized until 321 by anti-Semites at the Council of Nicaea.
Then for another thousand years people were either not taught to read
or the words were dictated from pulpits in churches. Emperor
Constantine made sure that pagan Easter, Christmas and the Day of the
Sun were “harmonized” into scriptures and burned or destroyed many
books that were being distributed that didn’t suite his doctrine.
In 1440, German inventor Johannes Gutenberg invented a printing press
and the Gutenberg bible was distributed.
It was not lawful for people to even read the scriptures for
themselves. These bibles were distributed to Church’s with a Germanic
names, which is where the name “God” comes from, not Hebrew, Not Greek
which used, “Theos”.
In 1556, The Geneva (the New Testament completed in 1556 and
published, while the entire work was finished in 1560) Bible that the
“Puritans” brought on the Mayflower to America still read Passover.
It was in fact the Geneva Bible that King James hated so much that
inspired him to authorize his own version with his official stamp of
approval. The margin notes in the Geneva Bible were written by John
Calvin and those who kept the Geneva Bible were called, Calvinist,
Protestants and Puritans.
Being translated by “Protestants” during a time of persecution in
England, the translators converged in Geneva, Switzerland, where they
were able to arrange publication of their work. Fleeing the
persecution of Roman Catholic Queen Mary I (18 February 1516 – died
17 November 1558) in England, who would not tolerate the Protestant
Geneva Bible (which she only lived to see the New Testament version
of) proclaimed the Pope an “antichrist” in its commentary notes of
Revelation.
The Geneva Bible was where John Calvin first stated that the “Dragon
of Revelation” was in fact the Roman Catholic Church. So this
understanding is nothing new and still we keep its cannon except the
“Apocrypha” that was removed in the 19th century by American Bishops!
Note: The Catholic church still considers these books inspired.
In 1604 there was a ruling from the Hampton Court Conference between
the King James I and various clergymen. An agreement was reached that
there should be a revised English version of the Bible without the
side notes of the Geneva Bible. Forty-seven scholars began the
revision to create the King James Version which used the Tyndale,
“Bishop’s Bible” and Geneva Bibles English text, not the Greek or
Hebrew Text.
In 1611, King James’s Bible came along and continued to alter all the
names (except Satan) and removing words like “Sabbath” at key
locations in scriptures to fit his false doctrine. Examining Greek
text, we find that the word “Sabbath” is removed in many locations
after the resurrection.
(Mar 16:2) (Mar 16:9) (Luk 18:12) (Luk 24:1) (Joh 20:1) (Joh 20:19)
(Act 20:7) (1Co 16:2) (Heb 4:9)
And (Mat 28:1) Sabbath is removed the second instance of its use.
So then people had Germanic based deity names (In a Hebrew based
scripture) in bibles from English versions revised in the KJV but it
was the Geneva Bible is what was brought to the Americas. So again
we see that the words of scriptures were altered and removed by
scribes and translators. Can anybody say Babylon? The prophet
Jeremiah knew this and penned:
Jer 8:7 “Even a stork in the heavens knows her appointed times. And a
turtledove, and a swallow, and a thrush observe the time of their
coming. But My people do not know the right-ruling of Yahweh.
Jer 8:8 “How do you say, ‘We are wise, and the Torah of Yahweh is with
us’? But look, the false pen of the scribe has worked falsehood.
Ironically scribes again removing the name of Yahweh in a place where
the text reads the scribes mistranslate scriptures.
Jer 8:9 “The wise shall be put to shame, they shall be broken down and
caught. See, they have rejected the Word of Yahweh, so what wisdom do
they have?
The fact is it has not been since the invention of the internet and
the distribution of E-Sword [1998] and other bible software, which
everyday people have had access to what is written. The history… has
hidden the truth for a thousand years by knowing clergymen. Until we
all had computers that could search key words and free access to the
information that has been obscured in foreign languages, we simply did
not know.
NOW we know the truth so what does the Torah say?
Deu 4:23 “Guard yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of Yahweh
your Elohim which He made with you, and shall make for yourselves a
carved image in the form of whatever Yahweh your Elohim has forbidden
you.
It’s too late for that, even the modern day English speaking “Jews”
speak of the Germanic name in scriptures.
Deu 4:28 “And there you shall serve mighty ones, the work of men’s
hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell.
Christians bow before wood and stone crosses and statues all the time.
Deu 4:29 “But from there you shall seek Yahweh your Elohim, and shall
find, when you search for Him with all your heart1 and with all your
being.
When will we find the truth? When we search for him, with ALL our
heart and all our being. So the truth isn’t something that is readily
available, we must search for it. It’s not just a gift that’s tossed
around, we must pray for it and search for it and ask.
Deu 4:30 “In your distress, when all these words shall come upon you
in the latter days, then you shall return to יהוה your Elohim and
shall obey His voice.
Or so we hope you will but many of the Church of the Dragon will war
against the true word.
Deu 11:26 ‘See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
Deu 11:27 the blessing, when you obey the commands of Yahweh your
Elohim which I command you today;
Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commands of Yahweh
your Elohim, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to
go after other mighty ones which you have not known.
Read carefully the curse, it say that if you do not obey the Ten
commandments, you are cursed. Now let’s examine what brother Paul
said:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for
it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all
that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them.”
Now the closest to this is here:
Deu 27:26 ‘Cursed is he who does not establish the Words of this
Torah.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amĕn!’
Can you see where he added to the Torah? It does not say “all that
has been written”. What many consider to be a apostle of Christ ADDED
to the words of the Torah. The curse was if you DO NOT OBEY the
COMMANDMENTS and there are only Ten Commandments, regardless of what
Jews speak of.
Deu 4:13 “And He made known to you His covenant which He commanded you
to do, the Ten Words, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
That being said, is enough for me to recognize that Paul was in fact a
false apostle. I challenge any reader to find the words written by
apostle Paul in the Torah.
1Co 5:3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have
already judged the one who did this, as though I were present.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not
judge those who are inside?
Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law
before the unjust, and not before the saints?
In the book of Acts He is asked if he will go before Jerusalem to be
judged in the temple. Did he practice what he preached? Note: At the
time, Nero was Caesar.
Act 25:9 But Festus, willing to do the Jews a pleasure, answered
Paul, and said, Wilt thou go up to Jerusalem, and there be judged of
these things before me?
So he's asked if he will "go before the saints".
Act 25:10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I
ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very
well knowest.
We can clearly see that he didn't go back to Jerusalem. What happened
to his earlier account? He said,
Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine
heart? For I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at
Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Iesus.
It's historically recorded that he died in Rome and so we see this is
a false statement also!
Mar 8:15 And He was warning them, saying, “Mind! Beware of the leaven
of the Pharisees and of the leaven of Herodes.”
Act 13:1 And in the assembly that was at Antioch ... with Herodes the
district ruler, and Sha’ul.
How long will people ignore Paul's own testimony? If we know the
Roman Church is the Dragon, how come we keep it’s canon?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Failure is a detour, not a dead-end street.
Zig Ziglar
A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men
purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Exo 31:13 “And you, speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, saying, ‘My
Sabbaths you are to guard, by all means, for it is a sign1 between Me
and you throughout your generations, to know that I, יהוה, am setting
you apart. Footnote: 1The only sign of YAHWEH setting us apart, the
only sign of the everlasting covenant, is His Sabbaths, one of them
being the seventh day Sabbath. This is repeated in Ezek. 20:12 & 20.
Michael Christ
Even today this prophetic statement rings true.
Act 23:6 Now Sha’ul, perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the
other Pharisees, cried out in the council, “Men, brothers, I am a
Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…
How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
"inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie
unto his glory…
A lie is still a lie. The problem that I personally see with the
teachings of Paul vs the Messiah is that while the Messiah taught us
not to judge one another, everything I read in Paul is judgmental and
a Pharisee.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Zadok
>2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.
>2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto >you;
>2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they >do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
These then are the works attributed to Peter, of which I have recognized
only one epistle as
authentic and ACCEPTED BY THE EARLY FATHERS.
Wayne Stiles , Th.M., D.Min
The rejection of Peter as the writer of 2 Peter is by far the most common
opinion today. In fact, the view of the pseudonymity of the epistle is
almost universal.
Daniel B. Wallace , Th.M., Ph.D
From another, the issue of authorship is already settled, at least
negatively: the apostle Peter did not write this letter. The vast bulk of NT
scholars adopts this second perspective without much discussion.
Smile.
guardian Snow
> "guardian Snow" <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote in messagenews:384f897c-cea8-4785...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Mat 15:12 Then His taught ones came and said to Him, “Do You know that
the Pharisees stumbled when they heard this word?”
Mat 15:13 But He answering, said, “Every plant which My heavenly
Father has not planted shall be uprooted.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
What part of "Leave them alone" didn't you believe? Christian have a
real hard time with this because they follow Paul and not the Messiah
and so they think it is their duty to rebuke all.
Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, in order
for them to be sound in the belief,
Tit 1:14 not paying attention to Yehuḏite fables, and commands of men
who turn from the truth.
1Ti 5:20 Reprove those who are sinning, in the presence of all, so
that the rest also might fear.
Yes, what a brilliant strategy for building a church that none of you
Pharisees actually follow.
Michael Christ
On Jul 8, 8:52 pm, "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote:
> "guardian Snow" <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote in
> messagenews:384f897c-cea8-4785...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
>
> Even today this prophetic statement rings true.
>
> Act 23:6 Now Sha’ul, perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the
> other Pharisees, cried out in the council, “Men, brothers, I am a
> Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…
>
> How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
> "inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
> IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
> grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?
>
> Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie
> unto his glory…
>
> A lie is still a lie. The problem that I personally see with the
> teachings of Paul vs the Messiah is that while the Messiah taught us
> not to judge one another, everything I read in Paul is judgmental and
> a Pharisee.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Snow wrote:
> You simply misunderstand, Snowy...
>
> 2Pe 3:13 But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new
> earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
> 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give
> diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his
> sight.
> 2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even
> as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him,
> wrote unto you;
> 2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
> wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and
> unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own
> destruction.
>
> ...because you have not listened to God but your own voice.
>
> Or is Peter the Rock deluded too?
>
> No need to thank me.
>
> Michael Christ
Snow wrote:
(snip)
Not interested in a jump in context, Snowy.
Do you accept 2 Peter as scripture or not.
If not, what part in your biblical perfectness - for that is what you must
be or you will perish - of the Bible is Bible to you?
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
"Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message news:iM%4m.33846$Db2.33259@edtnps83...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Hi Smiley,Is that an indication that what you say is perfect or that you are clever?Aside from the conjecture of whether Peter wrote it or not, is what is written true?As a nurse I see things come and go. Betadine (anti-bacterial), for instance, at one time it was the bee's knees for wound care; now it is poo pooed. Now at one time it was a true as true can be, but now its universal use is widely accepted as slowing down the regranulation of damaged tissue. That being so, my spirit tells me that while you have the overwhelming presence of bacteria smothering a wound it is not going to heal anyway. So there are questions on both sides.So my question is to you, is there no message from God in 2 Peter for good?? Is He in control or is the great Smiley Zadok and his references to men?And that is a question you need to consider in your conspiracy 'quest' Snow. Is God in control, and has He been long long before your genius arrived?Michael ChristMichael Christ
Zadok
dolf
their multiple wives and violence as wife beaters--their wives should be
uncovered from their veiled and masked burka existence so that we can
see their innocence and piety.
Zadok <nob...@accesswave.ca>wrote:
Zadok
"dolf" <> wrote in message ...
> If Islam can't respect the autonomic right under the Commonwealth with
> their multiple wives and violence as wife beaters--their wives should be
> uncovered from their veiled and masked burka existence so that we can
> see their innocence and piety.
Was it Peter or Paul that said that??
Smile.
randy
"guardian Snow"
"Act 23:6 Now Sha’ul, perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the
other Pharisees, cried out in the council, “Men, brothers, I am a
Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…
How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
"inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?"
I have already answered this question. Perhaps you need to hear from
others...
But for those who haven't heard my answer yet, Paul was not claiming to be a
practising Pharisee, but rather, an educated Pharisee, ie one with a past in
Phariseeism. His previous association was as a Pharisee with Pharisees. It
has absolutely nothing to do with claiming to *currently* be a *practising*
Pharisee! He was only claiming to own certified rights to that designation.
randy
Michael Christ
"Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message news:LL95m.33977$Db2.11064@edtnps83...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Zadok it is hardly relevant. Smile. Your quote of Peter, from whence doest thou gettest it? From thy butt? Smile again.I will read 2 Peter again, its been 20 or so years, and I will let you know what the Lord says. What men say is what men say, what God says is.My hero, by the way, is none other than the One who is The Hero.Michael Christ
Zadok
Michael Christ
"Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message news:H1j5m.34088$Db2.16854@edtnps83...
Michael Christ
"Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message news:H1j5m.34088$Db2.16854@edtnps83...
guardian Snow
You follow the Pharisee and I'll follow Yahweh and his ONE SHEPHERD.
I shall disagree with you and that is alright because know this..
compassion trumps judgment.
Take care and be blessed Randy.
Michael Christ
> other Pharisees, cried out in the council, �Men, brothers, I am a
> Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee�
> How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
> "inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
> IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
> grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?"
>
> I have already answered this question. Perhaps you need to hear from
> others...
>
> But for those who haven't heard my answer yet, Paul was not claiming to be
> a
> practising Pharisee, but rather, an educated Pharisee, ie one with a past
> in
> Phariseeism. His previous association was as a Pharisee with Pharisees. It
> has absolutely nothing to do with claiming to *currently* be a
> *practising*
> Pharisee! He was only claiming to own certified rights to that
> designation.
> randy
You follow the Pharisee and I'll follow Yahweh and his ONE SHEPHERD.
I shall disagree with you and that is alright because know this..
compassion trumps judgment.
Take care and be blessed Randy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hope you have learned your lesson Randy. :-).
Michael Christ
randy
"Michael Christ"
randy
> Take care and be blessed Randy.
> I hope you have learned your lesson Randy. :-).
Well, at least he's "blessing" me! ;)
randy
Zadok
Matthew 7: 6 - Do not give to dogs (gentiles) what is sacred; do not throw
your pearls to
pigs (gentiles). If you do, they may tranple them under their feet (like the
Romans did to Jewish rights), and then turn and tear you to pieces (the
animals and birds after you have been executed).
Zadok
Jon R
> "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in messagenews:iM%4m.33846$Db2.33259@edtnps83...
> "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message
>
> >You simply misunderstand, Snowy...
>
> >2Pe 3:13 But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
> >2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.
> >2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto >you;
> >2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they >do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
>
> >...because you have not listened to God but your own voice.
>
> >Or is Peter the Rock deluded too?
>
> >No need to thank me.
>
> No thanks offered for quoting a FAKE!!
>
> Eusebius - History of the Church, 3, 3
>
> These then are the works attributed to Peter, of which I have recognized
> only one epistle as authentic and ACCEPTED BY THE EARLY FATHERS.
>
> Wayne Stiles , Th.M., D.Min
>
> The rejection of Peter as the writer of 2 Peter is by far the most common
> opinion today. In fact, the view of the pseudonymity of the epistle is
> almost universal.
Jon: Only among disers, like the RCC and others who do not even know
who Jesus really is.
Jon R
> "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
> >Aside from the conjecture of whether Peter wrote it or not, is what is written true?
>
> Mike, it is hardly relevant. The vast majority of NT scholars say Peter did not write it.
> Thus you are left with some unknown writer endorsing your hero Saulus.
>
> Quite different than an actual apostle.
Jon: Not really! just different subject matter.
> But then again, that is why it is in the bible. Some old scholar asked the same question, did any actual apostle ever mention Saulus, and the answer was no, so use a FAKE to try and say Peter did.
Jon: Did you forget Acts?
> Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>
> For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
Jon: This is not scripture you quoted, so where did you get it?
Michael Christ
>In simple english, Fuck Off Gentile.
>Smile.
Look it is not that hard Zadok...
Zadok wrote:
>Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
So where does Peter say that??
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++There is no land that separates human nature.However there is a gulf fixed between the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God.Michael Christ
Michael Christ
> Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>
> For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and have
> preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who >is my ENEMY!!
Jon: This is not scripture you quoted, so where did you get it?
Good luck. :-).
I think its Zadok scripture.
Michael Christ
Zadok
"Jon R" <> wrote in message ...
> >Aside from the conjecture of whether Peter wrote it or not, is what is
written true?
>
> Mike, it is hardly relevant. The vast majority of NT scholars say Peter
did not write it.
> Thus you are left with some unknown writer endorsing your hero Saulus.
>
> Quite different than an actual apostle.
>Jon: Not really! just different subject matter.
And a different author. Someone unknown, so who was it, that endorsed
Saulus??
> But then again, that is why it is in the bible. Some old scholar asked the
same question, did any actual apostle ever mention Saulus, and the answer
was no, so use a FAKE to try and say Peter did.
>Jon: Did you forget Acts?
Acts?? Who wrote Acts??
Did Luke ever met Jesus?? Ever know Jesus?? Ever study with Jesus??
I'm sure I read somewhere that Luke was one of Sualus' minions??
Where was that??
Church fathers maybe??
Oh yes!! Here do some reading then get back to us.
Irenaeus (180 A.D) tells us: "Luke, Paul's companion, put down in his book
the Gospel which Paul preached."
Tertullian speaks of - and Luke's digest is often ascribed to Paul. And
indeed it is easy to take that for the Master's which the disciples
published." Again, "Moreover, Luke was not an apostle, but an apostolic man;
not a master but a disciple: certainly less than his master; certainly so
much later, as he is a follower of Paul, the last of the apostles."
Origen mentions the gospels in the order commonly received-"The third," says
he, "is that according to Luke, the gospel commended by Paul, published for
the sake of the Gentile converts."
In the Synopsis ascribed to Athanasius, it is said, "That the gospel of Luke
was dictated by the apostle Paul, and written and published by the blessed
apostle and physician Luke."
> Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>
> For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
>Jon: This is not scripture you quoted, so where did you get it?
Only becasue some gentiles got together and determined for you what is
scripture!!
My Saviour said - Matthew 15: 24 - He answered, "I was sent only to the lost
sheep of Israel."
I bet you can guess, that I don't really care what your GENTILES think??
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
Damn, you GENTILES are ignorant.
Hint - The Letter of Peter to James.
Surely with that hint, and Google, even a ignorant fuck like you can find
it.
Smile.
Zadok
"Jon R" <> wrote in message ...
>
> The rejection of Peter as the writer of 2 Peter is by far the most common
> opinion today. In fact, the view of the pseudonymity of the epistle is
> almost universal.
Jon: Only among disers, like the RCC and others who do not even know
who Jesus really is.
Actual Idiot, Wayne Stiles was actually writing in defence of 2 Peter as was
Dr. Wallace.
But both of them had the guts to admit that the Vast bulk (almost universal)
of NT testament scholars won't even discuss it with them.
But ignorant clowns like you, who obviously have never read Stiles' article,
claim that he is a diser.
And that simply points out what an idiot you are.
Why don't you actually do some reading before you shoot your ignorant
fucking mouth off??
Smile.
I
> Matthew 7: 6 - Do not give to dogs (gentiles) what is sacred; do not
Geza Vermes is Professor Emeritus of Jewish Studies at Oxford University.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... the kingdom of God was for Jews alone. ... Jesus declared non-Jews to be unworthy to receive his teaching. p.377
The pro-Jewish attitude was substitutedfor the cosmopolitan outlook by the Judeo-Christian church of Peter and james, the brother of the Lord, in its
quarrels with Paul, who sought to free Gentile Christianity from the bounds
of traditional Judaism. ... that the message of Jesus was meant only for
Jews went strongly against the grain in the later, mostly Gentile, primitive
church. It was the complete opposite of what the non-Jewish majority of the users of the Gospels wanted to hear. p. 378
In the early days of the Palestinian church, no Gentile was considered
admissable into the Christian communitywithout first joining the Jewish fold
through becoming a fully-fldged proselyte (see Acts, chapters 10-11). ...
Paul had to struggle to overcome the hostility of the Judean churches whose leaders, previously of the Pharisee persuasion, insisted on the compulsory
circumcision of Gentuiles before their admittance into the Jewish movement,
and on their obligatory observance of the whole Law of Moses (Acts 15:5).
After the initial clashes, the mission to the Gentiles was approved by James
on condition that they would observe the Noachic laws (Acts 15:20,29). p.379
... both the Acts and Paul depict the preaching of the gospel to Gentiles as
a definite novelty. In short, the view that Jesus ministered to the lost
sheep of Israel and instructed his disciples to do the same is the
historically correct alternative. Disturbibng as this may sound to the
uninformed, the order to proclaim the good news of salvation to all the
nations must be struck out from the list of the authentic sayings of Jesus.
p. 380
... how can the religion of Jesus be summarised? His religion is a
particular response to a specific situation by an extraordinary man.
Christianity, on the other hand, is the general development of the religion
of Jesus by practical people planning for the future in an ordinary time
setting. The two are definitely connected, yet they are also radically
different. .... AD 6. The political unrest stirred up and nurtured a
feverish longingh for an impending divine intervention, especially in the
wake of the widely influential ministry of John the Baptist in the late
twenties. Jesus was to address and respond to this feverish expectation.
The Kingdom of God was believed to be at hand. This Kingdom was a wholly Jewish issue, involving Jews alone, and requiring an exclusively Jewish solution. The non-Jewish world played no active part in it. pp. 413-414
Linda Lee
> "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
> > What's the word that Jesus used for you people.
> > Oh, yes -
> >That is why Jesus said -
> > Matthew 7: 6 - Do not give to dogs (gentiles) what is sacred; do not
> > throw your pearls to pigs (gentiles). If you do, they may tranple them
> > under their feet (like the Romans did to Jewish rights), and then turn and > tear you to pieces (the animals and birds after you have been executed).
>
> Absolutely correct! Jesus DIDN'T go to Gentiles but ONLY to Jews.
And then the Messiah sent those Jews to the nations with his gospel:
The Messiah said:
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the
world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Zadok
"Linda Lee" <> wrote in message ...
All you have to do is check the OT, and the nations is where the lost sheep
of the house of Israel
were scattered.
Try Ezekiel 28: 25 - 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I gather
the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will
show myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live
in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob.
Or Zechariah 7; 14 - 'I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the
nations, where they were strangers. The land was left so desolate behind
them that no one could come or go. This is how they made the pleasant land
desolate.
Where were the lost sheep of the house of Israel??
Scattered amoung the nations.
So to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, the disciples had to go
to the nations.
That is further proved by actual apostles.
1 Peter 1: 1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus,
Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
What?? the strangers scattered??
Just like Zechariah said!!
Or James 1: 1 - James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
What's that?? The twelve tribes (Lost sheep of the house of Israel),
scattered among the nations.
What was it that Jesus said??
Matthew 15: 24 -
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
ONLY - SOLELY, EXCLUSIVELY!!
The only NT writers that mention going to Gentiles are Saulus and his minion
Luke, both Gentile writers.
But don't worry Linda, you can become a Jew, just obey the LAW!!
You don't even have to be circumcised.
Smile.
I
> "Linda Lee" <> wrote in message ...
...
>>> Absolutely correct! Jesus DIDN'T go to Gentiles but ONLY to Jews.
>>And then the Messiah sent those Jews to the nations with his gospel:
>
>>The Messiah said:
>>Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the
>>world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
>
>>Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
>
>>Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
>>the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
>
> All you have to do is check the OT, and the nations is where the lost
> sheep
> of the house of Israel
> were scattered.
One must also check out whether Mat 24:14, Mar 13:10 and Mat 28:19 are the
authentic words of the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth ... and guess what? They
AREN'T Jesus' words at all but later additions by the Gentile Christian
church.
Yep! Absolutely true.
Zadok
"I" <Iam@home0000428> wrote in message news:4a569f40$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
And the religionists hate it, when you point that out to them.
All they have to do is read their bible.
Jesus said in Matthew 5, that not one little bit of the LAW would change
until Heaven and Earth pass away,
which simply tells us that the LAW is ETERNAL.
Thus the Alpha and Omega (beginning and End) is also the LAW.
The word is the LAW.
Now read John 1: 1 the way it is meant.
In the beginning was the Word (LAW), and the Word (LAW) was with God, and
the Word (LAW) was God.
And Jesus said John 14: 15 - If ye Love me, Keep my commandments (LAW).
And when the man asked Jesus what he had to do to have eternal life, Jesus
never dirtied his lips with Grace.
He told him to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!!
Smile.
Michael Christ
"I" <Iam@home0000422> wrote in message news:4a567ef6$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Michael Christ
Just show me the quote Zadok, it should be as easy as opening your mouth.
Well not that easy. :-).
Now, once again...its simple...
You said...
Zadok wrote:
>Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
Now just provide the quote. Where did Peter say that about Paul?
Easy buddy. Y'know, just put it here...
Now how hard it that? Couldn't fail to do that could you.
Stop blurting and do that easy thing.
So far I am giving the benefit of the doubt but I am telling you, you are
propelling yourself toward exposure as a wanker.
Or...or, you could put it here....................
Or here............................
Michael Christ
I
- Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
- Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
- Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
- Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
- Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
- Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
- Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
'Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN CHRIST / MESSIAH Jesus of Nazareth] is one Lord' [Deut. 6:4]
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O
Israel; The Lord our God [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN CHRIST / MESSIAH Jesus of Nazareth] is one Lord.-Mark 12:29
...
Jesus called on his followers to trust the Father, to believe in God's
domain or reign. The proper object of faith inspired by Jesus is to trust
what Jesus trusted. For that reasonm, I am not primarily interested in
affirmations about Jesus but in the truths that inspired and informed Jesus.
To call for faith in Jesus is to subsititute the agent for the reality, the
proclaimer for the proclaimed. ...
Jesus pointed to God's domain, something he did not create, something he
did not control. I want to discover what Jesus saw, or heard, or sensed that was so enchanting, so mezmerizing, so challenging that it held Jesus in its
spell. And I do not want to bhe misled by what his followers did: instead of
looking to see what he saw, his devoted disciples tended to stare at the
pointing finger. Jesus himself should notbe, must not be, the object of
faith. That would be to repeat the idolatry of the first believers.
From Robert W. Funk "Honest To Jesus: Jesus for a New Millenium" (Hodder & Stoughton: 1996) pp. 304-305
I
>>Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
....
> Now just provide the quote. Where did Peter say that about Paul?
1 Peter 1:1 (written 80 - 110 CE and NOT by Peter)
"Peter, apostle of Jesus Christ, to all those living as aliens in the
Dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia"
This is speaking about the exiled Jews which included Paul.
2 Peter is a well known forgery written 100 - 160 CE when Peter was dead.
Linda Lee
> "I" <Iam@home0000428> wrote in messagenews:4a569f40$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Hmmm.
John 12:32-33, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, *****will
draw all men unto me.***** This he said, signifying what death he
should die."
John 3:14, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even
so must the Son of man be lifted up".
The Messiah is here referring to Moses 'lifting up the serpent' (a
brass serpent, that healed those who looked to it - of their
snakebites) as a prophesy that those who look to (i.e. believe and
follow) the Messiah (God incarnate in the flesh) would live eternally
(the serpent signifying the flesh), even though they had all sinned by
following THE serpent of Genesis/Satan and so were banished from
Paradise and consigned to the flesh:
In the Messiah's reference to Moses lifting up the serpent, the serpent
(s) signify THE serpent/Satan causing the spiritual death of those now
in the flesh.
Here, actual serpents were biting and killing Israelites:
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and
set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is
bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole,
and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he
beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
>
> > > The only NT writers that mention going to Gentiles are Saulus and his
> > > minion
> > > Luke, both Gentile writers.
>
> > Yep! Absolutely true.
>
> And the religionists hate it, when you point that out to them.
>
> All they have to do is read their bible.
>
> Jesus said in Matthew 5, that not one little bit of the LAW would change
> until Heaven and Earth pass away,
> which simply tells us that the LAW is ETERNAL.
>
> Thus the Alpha and Omega (beginning and End) is also the LAW.
>
> The word is the LAW.
>
> Now read John 1: 1 the way it is meant.
>
> In the beginning was the Word (LAW), and the Word (LAW) was with God, and
> the Word (LAW) was God.
>
> And Jesus said John 14: 15 - If ye Love me, Keep my commandments (LAW).
>
> And when the man asked Jesus what he had to do to have eternal life, Jesus
> never dirtied his lips with Grace.
> He told him to KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!!
That man was not identified as a Jew or an Israelite, only as a rich
man, so Gentiles were not excluded there.
>
> Smile.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Michael Christ
"I" <Iam@home0000429> wrote in message news:4a56b302$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "Michael Christ" wrote:
>
>>>Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
> ....
>> Now just provide the quote. Where did Peter say that about Paul?
I wrote:
> 1 Peter 1:1 (written 80 - 110 CE and NOT by Peter)
>
> "Peter, apostle of Jesus Christ, to all those living as aliens in the
> Dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia"
>
> This is speaking about the exiled Jews which included Paul.
>
> 2 Peter is a well known forgery written 100 - 160 CE when Peter was dead.
Well I don't subscribe to men's well known anything, however I don't read
anything like this anywhere....
Zadok wrote:
>Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
Zadok is what we call in Australia, as you know, a bullshit artist.
Michael Christ
I
>> 1 Peter 1:1 (written 80 - 110 CE and NOT by Peter)
>>
>> "Peter, apostle of Jesus Christ, to all those living as aliens in the
>> Dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia"
>>
>> This is speaking about the exiled Jews which included Paul.
>>
>> 2 Peter is a well known forgery written 100 - 160 CE when Peter was dead.
>
> Well I don't subscribe to men's well known anything
Therefore you are a slave to the naive literalist reading of a multiply
edited collection of ancient books.
No wonder you are so confused!
>>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
>> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>>doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
Are you really that biblically illiterate????
Zadok is absolutely correct again.
This is lengthy but the argument must be mnade from what the texts say and
what scholars say about the text!
Paul was continually trying to assert that he was an apostle yet Acts 1 & 15
clearly demonstrate that the REAL apostles who had been with Jesus did NOT
class Paul as an apostle.
As for Peter having snide remarks about Paul ..........
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Peter 2:12, 15
Always behave honourably among gentiles so that they can see for themselves
what moral lives you lead, and when the day of reckoning comes, give thanks
to God for the things which now make them denounce you as criminals. ... It
is God's will that by your good deeds you should silence the ignorant talk
of fools.
1 Peter 3: 15 - 17
... always have your answer ready for people who ask you the reason
for the hope that you have. But give it with courtesy and respect and with a
clear conscience, so that those who slander your good behaviour in Christ
may be ashamed of their accusations. And if it is the will of God that you
should suffer, it is better to suffer for doing right than for doing wrong.
1 Peter 4: 3-4
You spent quite long enough in the past living the sort of life that
gentiles choose to live, behaving in a debauched way, giving way to your
passions, drinking to excess, having wild parties and drunken orgies and
sacrilegiously worshipping false gods. So people are taken aback that you no
longer hurry off with them to join this flood which is rushing down to
ruin, and then abuse you for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The (pretend) Peter is speaking to JEWISH Christians about Paul's Gentiles.
BUT ...
The MAIN criticism about Paul is in 2 Peter 2.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As there were false prophets in the past history of our people, so you
too will have your false teachers, who will insinuate their own disruptive
views and, by disowning the Lord who bought them freedom, will bring upon
themselves speedy destruction.
Many will copy their debauched behaviour, and the Way of Truth will
be brought into disrepute on their account.
In their greed they will try to make a profit out of you with untrue
tales. But the judgement made upon them long ago is not idle, and the
destruction awaiting them is for ever on the watch.
... especially those who follow the desires of their corrupt human
nature and have no respect for the Lord's authority. Such self-willed people
with no reverence are not afraid of offending against the glorious ones, but
the angels in their greater strength and power make no complaint or
accusation against them in the Lord's presence.
But these people speak evil of what they do not understand; they
are like brute beasts, born only to be caught and killed, and like beasts
they will be destroyed, being injured in return for the injuries they have
inflicted.
Debauchery even by day they make their pleasure; they are unsightly
blots, and amuse themselves by their trickery even when they are sharing
your table; with their eyes always looking for adultery, people with an
insatiable capacity for sinning, they will seduce any but the most stable
soul. Where greed is concerned they are at their peak of fitness. They are
under a curse.
They have left the right path and wandered off to follow the path
of Balaam son of Bosor, who set his heart on a dishonest reward, but soon
had his fault pointed out to him: a dumb beast of burden, speaking with a
human voice, put a stop to the madness of the prophet.
People like this are dried-up springs, fogs swirling in the wind,
and the gloom of darkness is stored up for them.
With their high-sounding but empty talk they tempt back people who
have scarcely escaped from those who live in error, by playing on the
disordered desires of their human nature and by debaucheries.
They may promise freedom but are themselves slaves to corruption;
because if anyone lets himself be dominated by anything, then he is a slave
to it; and anyone who has escaped the pollution of the world by coming to
know our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and who then allows himself to be
entangled and mastered by it a second time, ends up by being worse than he
was before.
It would have been better for them never to have learnt the way of
uprightness, than to learn it and then desert the holy commandment that was
entrusted to them.
What they have done is exactly as the proverb rightly says: The dog
goes back to its vomit and: As soon as the sow has been washed, it wallows
in the mud.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2 Peter 3:2-3
Remember what was said in the past by the holy prophets and the
command of the Lord and Saviour given by your apostles. *[of which Paul was
EXCLUDED!!!!]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The antogonism between Paul and Peter is hinted at in Acts 15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then some men *[JEWISH CHRISTIANS] came down from Judaea and taught the
brothers, 'Unless you have yourselves circumcised in the tradition of Moses
you cannot be saved.'
This led to disagreement, and after Paul and Barnabas had had a long
ARGUMENT with these men *[JEWISH CHRISTIANS] it was decided that Paul and
Barnabas and others of the church should go up to Jerusalem and discuss the
question with the apostles and elders. *[Note that Paul is NOT classified
as an apostle! His view does not count with the JEWISH Christians so he has
to go to see those who knew Jesus of which James was the leader and Peter
the antagonist against Paul.]
.....
When they arrived in Jerusalem they were welcomed by the church and by
the apostles *[ Note again that Paul is NOT classed as an apostle] and
elders, and gave an account of all that God had done through them.
But certain members of the Pharisees' party *[JEWISH CHRISTIANS] who had
become believers objected, insisting that gentiles should be circumcised and
instructed to keep the Law of Moses.
The apostles *[ EXCLUDING PAUL] and elders met to look into the
matter, and after a long discussion, Peter stood up and addressed them. 'My
brothers,' he said, 'you know perfectly well that in the early days God made
his choice among you: the gentiles were to learn the good news from me and
so become believers. And God, who can read everyone's heart, showed his
approval of them by giving the Holy Spirit to them just as he had to us. God
made no distinction between them and us, since he purified their hearts by
faith. Why do you put God to the test now by imposing on the disciples the
very burden that neither our ancestors nor we ourselves were strong enough
to support? But we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are:
through the grace of the Lord Jesus.' *[Ths is an EDITED version. Paul
spoke out against Peter separating from the Gentile Christians in order to
practise Jewish purity rules during meals.]
The entire assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and
Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had worked through them among
the gentiles.
When they had finished it was James *[ the leader who was not Peter]
who spoke. 'My brothers,' he said, 'listen to me. Simeon has described how
God first arranged to enlist a people for his name out of the gentiles. This
is entirely in harmony with the words of the prophets, since the
scriptures say: After that I shall return and rebuild the fallen hut of
David; I shall make good the gaps in it and restore it. Then the rest of
humanity, and of all the nations once called mine, will look for the Lord,
says the Lord who made this known so long ago. 'My *[Not "OUR" but "MY" - as
the leader] verdict is, then, that instead of making things more difficult
for gentiles who turn to God, we should send them a letter telling them
merely to abstain from anything polluted by idols, from illicit marriages,
from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has always had
his preachers in every town and is read aloud in the SYNAGOGUES every
Sabbath.'
*[Paul's Gentiles were actually Noachides who attended Jewish synagogue
along with JEWISH CHRISTIANS. Christians were a Jewish sect fully within
Judaism. Paul did not go to the totally pagan Gentiles. This is why Paul
could discuss the Torah with these Gentiles. They had heard it at
synagogue.]
Then the apostles *[EXCLUDING PAUIL] and elders, with the whole
church, decided to choose delegates from among themselves to send to Antioch
with Paul and Barnabas. *[ Tyhey DIDN'T trust Paul!!!!] They chose Judas,
known as Barsabbas, and Silas, both leading men in the brotherhood, and gave
them this letter to take with them:
'The apostles *[EXCLUDING PAUL] and elders, your brothers, send greetings to
the brothers of gentile birth in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia. We hear that
some people coming from here, but acting without any
authority from ourselves, have disturbed you with their demands and have
unsettled your minds; and so we have decided unanimously to elect delegates
and to send them to you with our well-beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have
committed their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
accordingly we *[EXCLUDING PAUL] are sending you Judas and Silas, who will
confirm by word of mouth what we have written.
It has been decided by the Holy Spirit and by ourselves *[EXCLUDING
PAUL] not to impose on you any burden beyond these essentials: you are to
abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of
strangled animals and from illicit marriages. Avoid these, and
you will do what is right. Farewell.' *[These are the Noachide laws for ALL
Gentiles.]
The party left and went down to Antioch, where they summoned the
whole community and delivered the letter. The community read it and were
delighted with the encouragement it gave them. Judas and Silas, being
themselves prophets, spoke for a long time, encouraging and strengthening
the brothers. *[Paul does not speak - only the delgates from the real
apostles.] These two spent some time there, and then the brothers wished
them peace and went back to those who had sent them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have summarised much study in a few commemts above but the historical fact
is that Peter and Paul did not agree on many things. Paul goes out of his
way to say he is a real apostle but the apostles who were with Jesus while
Jesus was alive reject him as an apostle. Pul sates that he has gathered a
llection of money for the Jrusalem church. Nothing is said about what
happened but it is clear that the Jerudsalem church (with James and Peter)
REJECTED Paul's offering.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acts 21
On our arrival in Jerusalem the brothers gave us a very warm
welcome. The next day Paul went with us to visit James *[The leader], and
all the elders were present. After greeting them he gave a detailed account
of all that God had done among the gentiles through his ministry.
They gave glory to God when they heard this. Then they *[PETER????] said,
'You see, brother, how thousands of Jews have now become believers, all of
them staunch upholders of the Law; and what they have heard about you is
that you instruct all Jews living among the gentiles to break away from
Moses, authorising them not to circumcise their children or to follow the
customary practices. What is to be done? A crowd is sure to gather, for they
will hear that you have come. So this is what we suggest that you should do;
we have four men here who are under a vow; take these men along and be
purified with them and pay all the expenses connected with the shaving of
their heads. This will let everyone
know there is no truth in the reports they have heard about you, and that
YOU TOO OBSERVE THE *[JEWISH] LAW [TORAH] by your way of life. About the
gentiles who have become believers, we have written
giving them our decision that they must abstain from things sacrificed to
idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from illicit
marriages.'
So the next day Paul took the men along and was PURIFIED with them,
and he visited the TEMPLE to GIVE NOICE of the time when the period of
PURIFICATION would be over and the OFFERING would have to be presented on
behalf of each of them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is AFTER the previous meeting concerning the Getiles. Paul as a JEW is
expected to follow JUDAISM and JEWISH PRACTICE even though he is a
Christian.
Michael Christ
"I" <Iam@home0000430> wrote in message news:4a56f2bf$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Its all conjecture, Mark. You're stretching to try and capture the moon.
Zadok just made up those words to suit his religion.
Also, you say 2 Peter is a fraud but you quote it as your so called evidence
against Paul??
I'm not interested in laws and theories and striving to justify yourself
under such in the light of Jesus having been a sacrifice for all.
It makes me a little sick.
Michael Christ
I
> Its all conjecture
It's all in the bible, Michael.
1 Peter 2:12, 15
1 Peter 3: 15 - 17
1 Peter 4: 3-4
2 Peter 2.
2 Peter 3:2-3
Acts 15
Acts 21
Maybe you should read your bible sometime.
> Zadok just made up those words to suit his religion.
You just made up your words to suit your Jesus worship (which is idolatry
according to the Shema).
> Also, you say 2 Peter is a fraud but you quote it as your so called
> evidence against Paul??
1. 2 Peter is not a "fraud" but a "forgery".
2. Zadok referred to 1 Peter and 2 Peter in regards to Paul's Gentiles.
> Jesus having been a sacrifice for all.
So Jesus is a mere human sacrifice?
Why didn't they take Jesus from the manger and crucify him immediatey if, as
your beloved Paul states, all that matters is "Christ crucified"? It would
have been more efficient and one wouldn't have had to wait 30 plus years.
> It makes me a little sick.
Jesus jingles make me puke.
--
"We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype ("Nudist Colony
Of The Dead")
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>
> "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> news:rEu5m.35582$PH1.30379@edtnps82...
> >
> > "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
> >> Zadok wrote:
> >> > Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
> >> >
> >> > For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and
> >> > have
> >> > preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who >is my ENEMY!!
> >>
> >> Jon: This is not scripture you quoted, so where did you get it?
> >>
> >> Good luck. :-).
> >>
> >> I think its Zadok scripture.
> >
> > Damn, you GENTILES are ignorant.
> >
> > Hint - The Letter of Peter to James.
> >
> > Surely with that hint, and Google, even a ignorant fuck like you can
find
> > it.
> >
> > Smile.
>
> Just show me the quote Zadok, it should be as easy as opening your mouth.
> Well not that easy. :-).
I already gave you the hint above.
Not my fault that you are too fucking ignorant to follow it up.
I gave you the quote -
For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
And I gave you the source - The Letter of Peter to James.
The only thing left is to write it in crayon, so you can follow it.
Mikey, get off your lazy ass, and do some research.
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
> >Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>
> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
> > >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
> >doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
>
> Zadok is what we call in Australia, as you know, a bullshit artist.
I gave you the quote and the source.
Not my problem that you are too fucking lazy to follow it up.
Smile.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Also, you say 2 Peter is a fraud but you quote it as your so called
>> evidence against Paul??
Mark wrote:
> 1. 2 Peter is not a "fraud" but a "forgery"
Very well then, you say 2 Peter is a forgery but you quote it as your so
called evidence against Paul.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
>
> "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>> Zadok wrote:
>> >Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>>
>> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and have
>> > >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>> >doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
>>
>> Zadok is what we call in Australia, as you know, a bullshit artist.
Zadok wrote:
> I gave you the quote and the source.
>
> Not my problem that you are too fucking lazy to follow it up.
>
> Smile.
What you said does not exist, not to mention you can't produce it.
You are under law you can't keep.
Grimace for you.
Bad luck about that.
Jesus is the Messiah. No-one gets in without Him.
End of story.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Can't see it there son.
You have the wrong spirit Zadok, it is not of Him, of the Chosen.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Not of the light.
Michael Christ
"Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:WlE5m.35704$PH1.541@edtnps82...
Michael Christ
"I" <Iam@home0000429> wrote in message news:4a56b0bb$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:> Well that stuffs you then Mark doesn't it? Unless you are Jewish with Zadok (aka > God's glory)?Not in the least!Seven Noachide Laws pertain to all Gentiles such as myself:
- Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
- Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
- Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
- Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
- Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
- Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
- Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
I approve of and follow these laws.The first law includes the prohibition of worshipping any human (such as Jesus of Nazareth) as the One God.There is therefore a problem for ANY person who worships Jesus as God ... including you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Well, for what it is worth, it is incumbent on you to fulfill all the laws or you aren't going to make it.The question then is, what is Jesus Christ to you? And, did Jesus Christ fulfill the law or not?Michael Christ
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>
> "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> news:fnE5m.35705$PH1.31044@edtnps82...
> >
> > "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
> >> Zadok wrote:
> >> >Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
> >>
> >> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
have
> >> > >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
> >> >doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
> >>
> >> Zadok is what we call in Australia, as you know, a bullshit artist.
>
> Zadok wrote:
> > I gave you the quote and the source.
> >
> > Not my problem that you are too fucking lazy to follow it up.
> >
> > Smile.
>
> What you said does not exist, not to mention you can't produce it.
Already produced it, and told you where it came from!!
But when one is as fucking lazy as you are, ity's easier to say it does not
exist,
rather than look it up.
>You are under law you can't keep.
>Grimace for you.
How about you show us where your Messiah said you were not under the law??
Tell us Mikey, do you LOVE JESUS??
John 14: 15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Kind of shuts you up eh??
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message ...
> >> Just show me the quote Zadok, it should be as easy as opening your
mouth.
> >> Well not that easy. :-).
> >
> > I already gave you the hint above.
> > Not my fault that you are too fucking ignorant to follow it up.
> >
> > I gave you the quote -
> >
> > For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
> > have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my
ENEMY!!
> >
> > And I gave you the source - The Letter of Peter to James.
>
> Can't see it there son.
You can't see it, because you are too fucking lazy to look!!
Come on Mikey, get off that lazy ass!!
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>
> Not of the light.
If you would get off your lazy ass, the light would show you the quote I
posted.
But, when you know nothing, it's easier to run your ignorant mouth.
Smile.
Michael Christ
>
> "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>>
>> "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
>> news:fnE5m.35705$PH1.31044@edtnps82...
>> >
>> > "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>> >> Zadok wrote:
>> >> >Here, read what Peter actually did say about your hero.
>> >>
>> >> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
> have
>> >> > >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD
>> >> >doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!
>> >>
>> >> Zadok is what we call in Australia, as you know, a bullshit artist.
>>
>> Zadok wrote:
>> > I gave you the quote and the source.
>> >
>> > Not my problem that you are too fucking lazy to follow it up.
>> >
>> > Smile.
>>
>> What you said does not exist, not to mention you can't produce it.
>
> Already produced it, and told you where it came from!!
>
> But when one is as fucking lazy as you are, ity's easier to say it does
> not
> exist,
> rather than look it up.
>
>>You are under law you can't keep.
>
>>Grimace for you.
>
Zadok wrote:
> How about you show us where your Messiah said you were not under the law??
> Tell us Mikey, do you LOVE JESUS??
Yes I do.
> John 14: 15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I do, but that reality is between my God and me, and not subject to your
appraisal.
The commandments aren't 10 laws He fulfilled.
You cannot keep the law, that is why He was sent. They are fulfilled.
You cannot please the Father unless you kneel before Jesus Christ the Lord,
the Messiah.
Michael Christ
Zadok
But as usual, you neglected to tell us where Jesus said you are no longer
under the law.
Why is that Mikey??
Let me guess?? You couldn't find that either??
Smile.
Michael Christ
All this nonsense because I asked for a quote, which you cannot provide
because you are a liar. Oopps, there goes the law.
Now if you think I am not right, then...
Show me where, quote where Peter says this about Paul!!
Zadok wroteth, that's what you did.
>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and have
>preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who > is my ENEMY!!
Now where is it written?? Simple, cut and paste.
You say something, you substantiate it, or shut up. Smoke and mirrors about
laziness is smoke and mirrors about what you can't produce.
Now, don't a lazy smoke and mirror boy before a Holy God. Word and deed it
son.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
This is ridiculous.
Provide the quote, sneaky boy.
Simple.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question,
tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
There you go sneaky boy.
Its easy cut and paste, now you try it. Where did Peter say that about
Paul?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am
not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
And fulfill He did!!
Praise the Lord.
Now you think you can fulfill the law??!! Good luck Zadok, you are going to
need it, like going through the eye of needle kinda luck bud.
Michael Christ
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
> >> >
> >> > For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
> >> > have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my
> > ENEMY!!
> >> >
> >> > And I gave you the source - The Letter of Peter to James.
> >>
> >> Can't see it there son.
> >
> > You can't see it, because you are too fucking lazy to look!!
> >
> > Come on Mikey, get off that lazy ass!!
>
> All this nonsense because I asked for a quote, which you cannot provide
> because you are a liar. Oopps, there goes the law.
>
> Now if you think I am not right, then...
>
> Show me where, quote where Peter says this about Paul!!
>
> Zadok wroteth, that's what you did.
> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and have
> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who > is my ENEMY!!
>
> Now where is it written?? Simple, cut and paste.
Cut and paste it yourself. I gave you the quote and the source.
Mine is of course from an actual book.
But if you get off that lazy ass, and do a quick google search, I'm sure you
can find it.
OH, Damn!! You'd actually have to do some research, and something tells me
that is completely foreign to you.
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
Simple -
The quote -
"For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my ENEMY!!"
The source - Letter of Peter to James
Now get off your lazy ass and find it yourself idiot.
But you won't. It's easier to scream liar, and look like the fucking idiot
that you are!!
Smile.
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
am
> not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Damn Mikey, why did you not quote Matthew 5: 18??
Here Mikey -
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest
letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the
Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV)
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle
shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.(KJV)
The question for you Mikey is when did Heaven and Earth Pass away??
See the verse has two requirements. 1) Heaven and earth have to pass away
and 2) all has to be accomplished (fulfilled).
But clowns like you, will try and say all has been fulfilled, but Heaven and
earth have not passed.
But Gentiles will do anything to try and tell themselves that the LAW no
longer applies to them.
Let's read that one more time. "I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH
DISAPPEAR, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER, NOT THE LEAST STROKE OF A PEN, WILL BY
ANY MEANS DISAPPEAR FROM THE LAW!!
WOW, what a powerful statement that the LAW IS ETERNAL!!
As heaven will never pass away!!
But twist is some more GENTILE!!
Smile.
I
I was wrong! Mea culpa!!!
Zadok is referencing "The Clementines" .
See http://www.ftarchives.net/cassels/sr/p2c05.htm
I
include this item in the primary database / Jesus did not say this; it
represents the perspective or content of a later or different tradition".
Putting it in Plain English - Jesus of Nazareth NEVER stated Matthew 5: 17-20.
Michael Christ
"I" <Iam@home0000430> wrote in message news:4a579df9$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"Michael Christ" wrote>> Seven Noachide Laws pertain to all Gentiles such as myself:>> 1 Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.>> 2 Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G->> d.>> 3 Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.>> 4 Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.>> 5 Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.>> 6 Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live >> animal.>> 7 Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to >> enforce the other 6 laws....> Well, for what it is worth, it is incumbent on you to fulfill all the laws or you> aren't going to make it.Where did the historic JESUS OF NAZARETH say that??????????????
God is a fire Mark.
> The question then is, what is Jesus Christ to you?The pre-Easter historic Jesus of Nazareth was a 1st century Jew who preached to Jews and encouraged them to turn to God.> And, did Jesus Christ fulfill the law or not?Matthew 5: 17-20 "Don't think that I have come to annul the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to annul but fulfil. I swear to you, before the world disappears, not one iota, not one serif, will disappear from the Law, until it's all over. Whoever ignores one of the most trivial of these regulations, and teaches others to do so, will be called trivial in heaven's domain. But whoever acts on (these regulations) and teaches (others to do so), will be called great in Heaven's domain. Let me tell you: unless your religion goes beyond that of the scholars and Pharisees, you won't set foot in Heaven's domain." (Scholars Version)
The point was, no-one could push that law aside, no-one could keep it, except Him, a Saviour, a Messiah who saved us from the fire of God consuming us in our sin.Why are we discussing such basic reality.He came to rescue us from the law by fulfilling it. Do you know how bad it is in front of the Father to be trying to keep it in front of Him. You may as well piss on His Son.Not good.Michael Christ
Michael Christ
>
> "Michael Christ" <> wrote in message ...
>> >> > I gave you the quote -
>> >> >
>> >> > For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching and
>> >> > have preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who is my
>> > ENEMY!!
>> >> >
>> >> > And I gave you the source - The Letter of Peter to James.
>> >>
>> >> Can't see it there son.
>> >
>> > You can't see it, because you are too fucking lazy to look!!
>> >
>> > Come on Mikey, get off that lazy ass!!
>>
>> All this nonsense because I asked for a quote, which you cannot provide
>> because you are a liar. Oopps, there goes the law.
>>
>> Now if you think I am not right, then...
>>
>> Show me where, quote where Peter says this about Paul!!
>>
>> Zadok wroteth, that's what you did.
>> >For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and have
>> >preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who > is my ENEMY!!
>>
>> Now where is it written?? Simple, cut and paste.
Zadok wrote:
> Cut and paste it yourself. I gave you the quote and the source.
> Mine is of course from an actual book.
Well then just type it out.
Thought it was scripture??
I can't find anywhere where Peter says this of Paul...
Zadok wrote:
>For some amoung the Gentiles have rejected my LAWFUL preaching >and have
>preferred a LAWLESS AND ABSURD doctrine of the man who >is my ENEMY!!
I can't believe this nonsense has gone on as long as it has. An honest
non-gentile would have simply done the right thing ages ago.
Where is the righteousness that pertains to the law?
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Its not there.
Here is a revelation for you.
Are you listening?
You know your spirit is not of the Spirit of the law.
Therefore you do not keep the law.
Therefore you will perish in your sin.
Michael Christ
guardian Snow
> "We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype ("Nudist Colony Of The Dead")
I have a song for you Mark:)
"In Some Other World" lyrics by Wax U.K.
The prophet born again the Bible in his hand
With fire and brimstone eyes.
The savior on TV,
with tax immunity,
Donations exorcized.
Who are these men in their ivory towers?
Not heaven sent, No, no.
Worshipping greed in the name of Jesus, save our souls!
In some other world you'd be branded as thieves
Thrown to your knees and made to answer.
In some different time they would lock you away
As mad men I'd say Amen.
Behind the public smile the politicians guile
so vain and powerful.
Elected for his hair, by people unaware
it's unbelievable.
Brothers in arms robbing the future
shining in childrens eyes.
Shame on this world
shame on our country
shame on you.
In some other world you'd be branded as thieves
Thrown to your knees and made to answer.
In some different time they would lock you away
As mad men I'd say Amen.
We built you an altar, instead of an outcast
We made you a king, respected and wealthy
The verdict is in the jury is guilty.
Worshipping greed in the name of Jesus
shame on you!
In some other world you'd be branded as thieves
. . .
In some other world you'd be branded as thieves
. . .
(SNOW)
I thought you might be willing to help me out here:
Grace without works forces Christians to ignore many of the teachings
of the Messiah, so I thought it should be good that a list of these
passages should be compiled:
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is
none good but one, that is, Elohim: but if thou wilt enter into life,
keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Yahushua said, Thou shalt do no
murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou
shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour as thyself.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of
YHWH, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 10:18 And Yahushua said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there
is none good but one, that is, YHWH.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do
not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour
thy father and mother.
Mar 12:29 And Yahushua answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one: 30 And thou
shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy
soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the
first commandment.
This is a direct quote of the Torah:
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one: 5 And
thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all
thy soul, and with all thy might.
Luk 18:19 And Yahushua said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none
is good, save one, that is, YHWH.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do
not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father
and thy mother.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who
loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall
love him and manifest Myself to him.”
Joh 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the
Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of YHWH, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is
the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should
walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make
war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of
YAHWEH, and have the testimony of Yahushua the Messiah.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep
the commandments of YAHWEH, and the faith of Yehoshua.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may
have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates
into the city.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of
righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy
commandment delivered unto them.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not
kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art
become a transgressor of the law.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Man's sin is in his failure to live what he is. Being the master of
the earth, man forgets that he is the servant of God.
Abraham Joshua Heschel
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
I
>> "We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype ("Nudist >>
>> Colony Of The Dead")
> I have a song for you Mark:)
I have a song for you ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"WIND UP" - Jethro Tull
When I was young and they packed me off to school
And taught me how not to play the game,
I didn't mind if they groomed me for success,
Or if they said that I was a fool.
So I left there in the morning
With their God tucked underneath my arm --
Their half-assed smiles and the book of rules.
So I asked this God a question
And by way of firm reply,
He said -- I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):
Before I'm through Id like to say my prayers --
I don't believe you:
You had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
Well you can excomunicate me on my way to Sunday School
And have all the bishops harmonize these lines --
How do you dare tell me that I'm my father's son
When that was just an accident of birth.
I'd rather look around me -- compose a better song
`cos thats the honest measure of my worth.
In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me,
As you lick the boots of death born out of fear.
I don't believe you:
You had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is
> none good but one, that is, Elohim: but if thou wilt enter into life ....
" ...believe that I, Jesus, am God ... believe in the bible ... and believe
that my dying as a human sacrifice on the cross and coming back to life
makes you a true Christian"
Oops! ... no ... that was the fundamentalist version!!!
Jesus actually said ...........
> keep the commandments.
> Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Yahushua said, Thou shalt do no
> murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou
> shalt not bear false witness,
> Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy
> neighbour as thyself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of
> YHWH, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Apparently the "commandment of Yahweh" is identical to modern fundamentalist
Christianity ....
Oops! ... no ... silly me! ... that was the fundamentalist version again!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mar 12:29 And Yahushua answered him, The first of all the
> commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH > is one: 30
> And thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thy heart,
> and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
> this is > the first commandment.
>
>This is a direct quote of the Torah:
>
> Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one: 5
> And thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with
> all thy soul, and with all thy might.
It is amazing that fundamentalist Christians then change it all to "JESUS is
our Elohim, JESUS is one helluvaguy! And thou shalt love JESUS thy Elohim
with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might ... and
with lots of bible verses ... and Jesus Jingles ... and Inquisitions to find
out who is a true Christian!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
guardian Snow
> It is amazing that fundamentalist Christians then change it all to "JESUS is
> our Elohim, JESUS is one helluvaguy! And thou shalt love JESUS thy Elohim
> with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might ... and
> with lots of bible verses ... and Jesus Jingles ... and Inquisitions to find
> out who is a true Christian!"
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's really scary is that you lay the truth right before their
eyes.. you put the text of their own preface from a dozen different
versions... you quote:
Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
in spirit and truth.”
Joh 7:28 Yehoshua therefore cried out in the Set-apart Place, teaching
and saying, “YOU both KNOW ME, and you know where I am from. And I
have NOT COME OF MYSELF, but HE WHO SENT ME is true, whom YOU DO NOT
KNOW.
Joh 12:49 For I have NOT spoken of MYSELF; but the Father WHICH SENT
ME, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should
speak.
Mar 9:37 “Whoever receives one of such little children in My Name
receives Me. And whoever receives Me, RECEIVES ME NOT, but the One WHO
SENT ME.”
Joh 7:16 Yahushua answered them, and said, My doctrine is NOT MINE,
but HIS THAT SENT ME.
Joh 5:30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter.
Joh 5:31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.
And still they insist he must be worshiped! Dozen more passages just
like those...
Linda Lee
Antichrist.
vince garcia
You said it perfectly. Anyone who denies the full deity of Christ is
ANTICHRIST!
guardian Snow
> You said it perfectly. Anyone who denies the full deity of Christ is
> ANTICHRIST!
Please support your allegations with scriptures that says that exact
quote.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar, except the one denying that Yehoshua is the
Messiah? This is the anti-messiah, the one denying the Father and the
Son.
I have never denied he was Messiah and Son but you have denied the
Father YHWH.
vince garcia
>
> On Jul 14, 7:59 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > You said it perfectly. Anyone who denies the full deity of Christ is
> > ANTICHRIST!
>
> Please support your allegations with scriptures that says that exact
> quote.
>
> 1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar, except the one denying that Yehoshua is the
> Messiah? This is the anti-messiah, the one denying the Father and the
> Son.
That one is good enough
>
> I have never denied he was Messiah and Son but you have denied the
> Father YHWH.
I know you agree He is the messiah. But you go on to deny He is God in
the flesh. That makes your "messiah Yehoshua" a "different Jesus" with a
"different Gospel"
Thus, you follow an imaginary character named "messiah Yehoshua", which,
by definition, is antichrist, and thus his followers are antichrist.
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that
antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we
know that it is the last time.
Linda Lee
> LindaLeewrote:
Yes, Snowjob acts as if Christ was nothing special at all, saying
others such as Moses were also messiahs etc. He is supremely ignorant
and uses his professing only worshipping "YHWH" as a front of piety in
order to deny God incarnate as the Saviour and The Messiah. He is
neither a Jew nor a Messianic Jew (those Jews who recognize Christ for
what he was - God incarnate as the only Saviour); he is simply another
little anti-christ/anti-messiah.
Ecc. 12:11 says, "The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails
fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from ONE
SHEPHERD".
Psa. 23:1 says, "The LORD is my SHEPHERD; I shall not want".
Matt. 26:31 says, "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be
offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite THE
SHEPHERD, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad".
Yahashua` the Messiah said in John 10:11, "I am the good SHEPHERD: the
good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep".
The Messiah said in John 10:16, "And other sheep I have, which are not
of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD".
Psa. 2:12 says, "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from
the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they
that put their trust in him".
Snowjob's always an egotistical insincere fraud, an anti-christ troll.
I notice he recently repeatedly name-called you "ignorant Christian"
and then turns around and complains that I was name-calling him - he's
simply a fraud with no real belief in anything and no love for God.
guardian Snow
Well, if your correct then your Jesus is not the one spoken of by the
prophets.
The prophets told us his name Zech. 6.
This would mean he is not the Messiah. So what is it? Because the
prophets are very clear about his name.
guardian Snow
> Snowjob's always an egotistical insincere fraud, an anti-christ troll.
> I notice he recently repeatedly name-called you "ignorant Christian"
> and then turns around and complains that I was name-calling him - he's
> simply a fraud with no real belief in anything and no love for God.
big difference between being ignorant and being all the things you
claim. Ignorance can learn, you can't because you don't believe
Moses, the Prophets or Paul. Go suck up to some more Christians now.
vince garcia
Thou art taking that out of context. The Joshua there was a living
person of that era.
But the problem is not in what name you use--it is in Who and What the
person with that name is to you.
You define that name as a created being, less than God, who teaches you
will go to heaven not by faith in His atonement, but by keeping various
biblical commmadments well enough
>
> This would mean he is not the Messiah. So what is it? Because the
> prophets are very clear about his name.
He's also called IMMANUEL, remmeber? And the Branch. And other "names"
roo
guardian Snow
> > The prophets told us his name Zech. 6.
>
> Thou art taking that out of context. The Joshua there was a living
> person of that era.
>
> But the problem is not in what name you use--it is in Who and What the
> person with that name is to you.
>
> You define that name as a created being, less than God, who teaches you
> will go to heaven not by faith in His atonement, but by keeping various
> biblical commmadments well enough
Joh 12:50 And I know that HIS COMMANDMENT IS EVERLASTING LIFE:
whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I
speak.
Yeah, funny things about that. I really must question where I got all
those silly ideas about guarding the commandments.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is
none good but one, that is, Elohim: but if thou wilt enter into life,
keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Yahushua said, Thou shalt do no
murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou
shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour as thyself.
Hmm, what is the Pharisee doctrine?
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of
YHWH, that ye may keep your own tradition.
What should we do to enter into life?
Mar 10:18 And Yehoshua said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there
is none good but one, that is, YHWH.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do
not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour
thy father and mother.
Mar 12:29 And Yehoshua answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one: 30 And thou
shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy
soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the
first commandment.
This is a direct quote of the Torah:
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YAHWEH is our Elohim, YAHWEH is one: 5 And
thou shalt love YAHWEH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all
thy soul, and with all thy might.
Luk 18:19 And Yehoshua said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none
is good, save one, that is, YHWH.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do
not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father
and thy mother.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who
loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall
love him and manifest Myself to him.”
Joh 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the
Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of YHWH, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is
the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should
walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make
war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of
YAHWEH, and have the testimony of Yehoshua the Messiah.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep
the commandments of YAHWEH, and the faith of Yehoshua.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may
have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates
into the city.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of
righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy
commandment delivered unto them.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not
kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art
become a transgressor of the law.
I'm still scratching my head.. where could I have gotten such a silly
idea.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge.
guardian Snow
> Antichrist.
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Even today this prophetic statement rings true.
Act 23:6 Now Sha’ul, perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the
other Pharisees, cried out in the council, “Men, brothers, I am a
Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee…
How do Christians reconcile this passage of scriptures? If Paul was
"inspired" by the "Holy Spirit" then either he told the truth and his
IS a Pharisee by his own testimony or a liar. Does the "Holy Spirit"
grant that an Apostle be allowed to lie?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie
unto his glory…
A lie is still a lie. The problem that I personally see with the
teachings of Paul vs the Messiah is that while the Messiah taught us
not to judge one another, everything I read in Paul is judgmental and
a Pharisee.
A clear example of how Paul is still preaching as a Pharisee is seen
here:
Mat 9:10 And it came to be, as Yehoshua sat at the table in the house,
that see, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him
and His taught ones.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His taught ones,
“Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
1Co 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone
called ‘a brother,’ if he is one who whores, or greedy of gain, or an
idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler – not even to eat
with such a one.
Mat 9:12 And Yehoshua hearing this, said to them, “Those who are
strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
Mat 9:13 “But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and
not offering.’ For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance,
but sinners.”
When we put the teachings side by side, it’s clear to all except the
many “Christian Pharisee’s” in the world today that are a student of
this Pharisee. What does our heavenly Father tell us in his Torah?
Let’s break it down, First we know:
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take
away from it, so as to guard the commands of Yahweh your Elohim which
I am commanding you.
Isn’t it ironic that they took his name YAHWEH out of the very verse
that says not to alter it? We are not to add or take away from the
Torah. This specifically means the book of Deuteronomy, not the
entire collection of books known as the bible. We can be assured of
that here:
Deu 4:8 “And what great nation is there that has such laws and
righteous right-rulings like all this Torah which I set before you
this day?
Since Paul wasn’t written until thousands of years later, we know the
two are not connected in the command so continue with me please:
Deu 4:9 “Only, guard yourself, and guard your life diligently, lest
you forget the Words your eyes have seen, and lest they turn aside
from your heart all the days of your life. And you shall make them
known to your children and your grandchildren.
How many Christians have forgotten the words of this book? We carry
it around day and night and yet, most don’t know or care what it says
and treat it with disregard as if it’s something written only for that
tribe in the wilderness.
Exo 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger
who sojourns among you.”
So, if you consider yourself a person serving our Father, that one
Torah is for you too. Now what is the “Law of Moses” as Christians
call it? You see, most people want to say that it is 613 laws that no
one is able to keep but what does the Torah say?
Deu 4:13 “And He made known to you His covenant which He commanded you
to do, the Ten Words, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
The TEN COMMANDMENTS are the covenant! So, Just like the Messiah
preached, if you want to enter into life, guard the commandments! How
simple is that? The sign of the “Church of the Dragon” is the church
that has bitterly fought against the 10 commandments. THE CHRISTIAN
CHURCH! Every pastor that preaches against the Sabbath is unknowingly
or willingly a part of the false church!
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to
fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of
Elohim and possessing the witness of Yehoshua Messiah.
YOU my dear reader may be a part of that very church. It is a bitter
pill to think that all these years, WE have been the false church. I
do not tell you this to accuse you but to inform you. Who will be
saved?
Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those
guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yehoshua.
Those who guard the commandments are the ones set apart for our
heavenly father. The only reason that the church of the dragon
refuses to accept the truth is over ONE issue, THE SABBATH. For at
least a thousand years Rome has dictated to you what is scriptures and
told you what you are to consider, “the way of [Yahweh] יהוה” but
many do not even know his name and probably call him “GOD” or “LORD
GOD ALMIGHTY”. But that was not the name given to him and for
thousands of years, we have not had access to the truth.
A common cry of the “Church of the Dragon” is that it has been this
way for 2000 years but that’s not true either. The scriptures were not
even canonized until 321 by anti-Semites at the Council of Nicaea.
Then for another thousand years people were either not taught to read
or the words were dictated from pulpits in churches. Emperor
Constantine made sure that pagan Easter, Christmas and the Day of the
Sun were “harmonized” into scriptures and burned or destroyed many
books that were being distributed that didn’t suite his doctrine.
In 1440, German inventor Johannes Gutenberg invented a printing press
and the Gutenberg bible was distributed.
It was not lawful for people to even read the scriptures for
themselves. These bibles were distributed to Church’s with a Germanic
names, which is where the name “God” comes from, not Hebrew, Not Greek
which used, “Theos”.
In 1556, The Geneva (the New Testament completed in 1556 and
published, while the entire work was finished in 1560) Bible that the
“Puritans” brought on the Mayflower to America still read Passover.
It was in fact the Geneva Bible that King James hated so much that
inspired him to authorize his own version with his official stamp of
approval. The margin notes in the Geneva Bible were written by John
Calvin and those who kept the Geneva Bible were called, Calvinist,
Protestants and Puritans.
Being translated by “Protestants” during a time of persecution in
England, the translators converged in Geneva, Switzerland, where they
were able to arrange publication of their work. Fleeing the
persecution of Roman Catholic Queen Mary I (18 February 1516 – died
17 November 1558) in England, who would not tolerate the Protestant
Geneva Bible (which she only lived to see the New Testament version
of) proclaimed the Pope an “antichrist” in its commentary notes of
Revelation.
The Geneva Bible was where John Calvin first stated that the “Dragon
of Revelation” was in fact the Roman Catholic Church. So this
understanding is nothing new and still we keep its cannon except the
“Apocrypha” that was removed in the 19th century by American Bishops!
Note: The Catholic church still considers these books inspired.
In 1604 there was a ruling from the Hampton Court Conference between
the King James I and various clergymen. An agreement was reached that
there should be a revised English version of the Bible without the
side notes of the Geneva Bible. Forty-seven scholars began the
revision to create the King James Version which used the Tyndale,
“Bishop’s Bible” and Geneva Bibles English text, not the Greek or
Hebrew Text.
In 1611, King James’s Bible came along and continued to alter all the
names (except Satan) and removing words like “Sabbath” at key
locations in scriptures to fit his false doctrine. Examining Greek
text, we find that the word “Sabbath” is removed in many locations
after the resurrection.
(Mar 16:2) (Mar 16:9) (Luk 18:12) (Luk 24:1) (Joh 20:1) (Joh 20:19)
(Act 20:7) (1Co 16:2) (Heb 4:9)
And (Mat 28:1) Sabbath is removed the second instance of its use.
So then people had Germanic based deity names (In a Hebrew based
scripture) in bibles from English versions revised in the KJV but it
was the Geneva Bible is what was brought to the Americas. So again
we see that the words of scriptures were altered and removed by
scribes and translators. Can anybody say Babylon? The prophet
Jeremiah knew this and penned:
Jer 8:7 “Even a stork in the heavens knows her appointed times. And a
turtledove, and a swallow, and a thrush observe the time of their
coming. But My people do not know the right-ruling of Yahweh.
Jer 8:8 “How do you say, ‘We are wise, and the Torah of Yahweh is with
us’? But look, the false pen of the scribe has worked falsehood.
Ironically scribes again removing the name of Yahweh in a place where
the text reads the scribes mistranslate scriptures.
Jer 8:9 “The wise shall be put to shame, they shall be broken down and
caught. See, they have rejected the Word of Yahweh, so what wisdom do
they have?
The fact is it has not been since the invention of the internet and
the distribution of E-Sword [1998] and other bible software, which
everyday people have had access to what is written. The history… has
hidden the truth for a thousand years by knowing clergymen. Until we
all had computers that could search key words and free access to the
information that has been obscured in foreign languages, we simply did
not know.
NOW we know the truth so what does the Torah say?
Deu 4:23 “Guard yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of Yahweh
your Elohim which He made with you, and shall make for yourselves a
carved image in the form of whatever Yahweh your Elohim has forbidden
you.
It’s too late for that, even the modern day English speaking “Jews”
speak of the Germanic name in scriptures.
Deu 4:28 “And there you shall serve mighty ones, the work of men’s
hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell.
Christians bow before wood and stone crosses and statues all the time.
Deu 4:29 “But from there you shall seek Yahweh your Elohim, and shall
find, when you search for Him with all your heart1 and with all your
being.
When will we find the truth? When we search for him, with ALL our
heart and all our being. So the truth isn’t something that is readily
available, we must search for it. It’s not just a gift that’s tossed
around, we must pray for it and search for it and ask.
Deu 4:30 “In your distress, when all these words shall come upon you
in the latter days, then you shall return to יהוה your Elohim and
shall obey His voice.
Or so we hope you will but many of the Church of the Dragon will war
against the true word.
Deu 11:26 ‘See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
Deu 11:27 the blessing, when you obey the commands of Yahweh your
Elohim which I command you today;
Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commands of Yahweh
your Elohim, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to
go after other mighty ones which you have not known.
Read carefully the curse, it say that if you do not obey the Ten
commandments, you are cursed. Now let’s examine what brother Paul
said:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for
it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all
that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them.”
Now the closest to this is here:
Deu 27:26 ‘Cursed is he who does not establish the Words of this
Torah.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amĕn!’
Can you see where he added to the Torah? It does not say “all that
has been written”. What many consider to be a apostle of Christ ADDED
to the words of the Torah. The curse was if you DO NOT OBEY the
COMMANDMENTS and there are only Ten Commandments, regardless of what
Jews speak of.
Deu 4:13 “And He made known to you His covenant which He commanded you
to do, the Ten Words, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
That being said, is enough for me to recognize that Paul was in fact a
false apostle. I challenge any reader to find the words written by
apostle Paul in the Torah.
1Co 5:3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have
already judged the one who did this, as though I were present.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not
judge those who are inside?
Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law
before the unjust, and not before the saints?
In the book of Acts He is asked if he will go before Jerusalem to be
judged in the temple. Did he practice what he preached? Note: At the
time, Nero was Caesar.
Act 25:9 But Festus, willing to do the Jews a pleasure, answered
Paul, and said, Wilt thou go up to Jerusalem, and there be judged of
these things before me?
So he's asked if he will "go before the saints".
Act 25:10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I
ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very
well knowest.
We can clearly see that he didn't go back to Jerusalem. What happened
to his earlier account? He said,
Act 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine
heart? For I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at
Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Iesus.
It's historically recorded that he died in Rome and so we see this is
a false statement also!
Mar 8:15 And He was warning them, saying, “Mind! Beware of the leaven
of the Pharisees and of the leaven of Herodes.”
Act 13:1 And in the assembly that was at Antioch ... with Herodes the
district ruler, and Sha’ul.
How long will people ignore Paul's own testimony? If we know the
Roman Church is the Dragon, how come we keep it’s canon?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Failure is a detour, not a dead-end street.
Zig Ziglar
A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men
purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Exo 31:13 “And you, speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, saying, ‘My
Sabbaths you are to guard, by all means, for it is a sign1 between Me
and you throughout your generations, to know that I, יהוה, am setting
you apart. Footnote: 1The only sign of YAHWEH setting us apart, the
only sign of the everlasting covenant, is His Sabbaths, one of them
being the seventh day Sabbath. This is repeated in Ezek. 20:12 & 20.
Linda Lee
The little antichrist Snowjob's blasphemy:
"I must by understanding Moses and the prophets, reject your
Messiah."
- from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/5f43d7fcd4b0d1f8
> Go suck up to some more Christians now.
LOL. YOU antichrist, are such a brown-nose, your whole head is the
color of crap.
Linda Lee
> On Jul 14, 7:34 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Antichrist.
>
Snip.
LOL. Who cares what you're babbling about? You know I no longer read
your posts since you just tricked me into considering your words and
replying and then telling me it was too long, you weren't going to
read it because you could see I didn't agree...
guardian Snow
> On Jul 14, 7:14 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 14, 11:32 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > Snowjob's always an egotistical insincere fraud, an anti-christ troll.
> > > I notice he recently repeatedly name-called you "ignorant Christian"
> > > and then turns around and complains that I was name-calling him - he's
> > > simply a fraud with no real belief in anything and no love for God.
>
> > big difference between being ignorant and being all the things you
> > claim. Ignorance can learn, you can't because you don't believe
> > Moses, the Prophets or Paul.
>
> The little antichrist Snowjob's blasphemy:
> "I must by understanding Moses and the prophets, reject your
> Messiah."
>
> > Go suck up to some more Christians now.
>
> LOL. YOU antichrist, are such a brown-nose, your whole head is the
> color of crap.
You didn't like this post?
That's fine for your belief Vince. Clearly we should agree to
disagree. I recognize that you must cling to your Greek translation
because you reject the Hebrew scriptures.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the
name of YAHWEH shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem
shall be deliverance, as YAHWEH hath said, and in the remnant whom
YAHWEH shall call.
I also recognize that even in your English version, you MUST REJECT
the words of your own Messiah, who called upon, "MY GOD".
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Yahushua cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My Elohim, my
Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Yahushua cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My
Elohim, my Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?
Joh 20:17 Yahushua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my Elohim, and your
Elohim.
4 times in this one verse:
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
Elohim, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the
name of my Elohim, and the name of the city of my Elohim, which is new
Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my Elohim: and I will
write upon him my new name.
Your New Testament is then completely incompatable with any teachings
of the Hebrew scriptures and your Jesus God in Flesh is not the SPIRIT
of Yahweh and is a false deity by any Hebrew standard and clearly NOT
the Hebrew Messiah who came to build the temple of YHWH.
After all by our religion there are "MANY GODS" and by Hebrew faith
there is only ONE and he answer to nobody and is not a servant. He
sends a Saviour and elohim in the form of men that have the spirit of
YAHWEH poured out on them.. but they do not desire worship of
themselves as your man does.
I must by understanding Moses and the prophets, reject your Messiah.
Exo 20:2 I am YAHWEH thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the
land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other elohim before me.
Your Jesus breaks the commandments of Yahweh and is not a Hebrew
Messiah.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any
likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth
beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for
I YHWH thy Elohim am a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the
fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them
that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and
keep my commandments.
Linda Lee
> On Jul 14, 1:59 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> > > Antichrist.
>
> Snip.
>
> LOL. Who cares what you're babbling about? You know I no longer read
> your posts since you just tricked me into considering your words and
> replying and then telling me it was too long, you weren't going to
> read it because you could see I didn't agree...
I'd like to know who's giving my posts to Snowjob five stars. ?????
guardian Snow
> > > > Antichrist.
>
> > Snip.
>
> > LOL. Who cares what you're babbling about? You know I no longer read
> > your posts since you just tricked me into considering your words and
> > replying and then telling me it was too long, you weren't going to
> > read it because you could see I didn't agree...
>
> I'd like to know who's giving my posts to Snowjob five stars. ?????
Don't you like the encouragement?
If you would like to comment on this, feel free to add them to this
web page.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua/web/removing-the-name-of-yhwh
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is
really true, there would be little hope of advance.
Orville Wright
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James for E-sword
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
If history is any indication, all truths will eventually turn out to
be false.
Dean Kamen
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