Death Comes to Love
jrh
Two lovers met, embraced and past
a casual affair not meant to last.
When the time for choice came no choice was made
could think no further than getting laid.
The seeds of life though sowed in jest
start to grow as if meant to last.
Snuggled within her womb
forms of consciousness take the shape
of the life she will forsake.
"Who can I find to cut the cord and set me free
by killing the being who lives in me."
The heart is beating, now it's not
as the new life is forced to stop.
For thoughtless sex a minor cost we have to pay
but of the unborn who of you can say.
Sperm feels great coming down the duct
how does the knife feel as he cuts the fetus up.
This I do not know and can not say
but to how the unborn feels
as it's life slips away
it's the same as any human
on their final day
jrh
Larry
As you posted this to alt.atheism, I'd like to answer as an atheist from
an atheist community....
Much to your dismay, I assume, you'll find the abortion of a child who
belongs to this Earth, a part of its natural evolution, an extension of
every human ever born, in the natural world, MUCH more abhorrant to the
atheist as it is to any GUILT-RIDDEN, Brainwashed theist....WHO MUST,
NOTICE TO ALT.ABORTION: This post was sent to alt.atheism, alt.religion
and talk.abortion as well as your newsgroup. Everyone needs to add all
4 groups to posts as the poster only wanted replies to alt.abortion for
his own agenda and purposes. I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
staunch enemies of abortion, which goes against NATURE as there is no
god....much to theists' astonishment who posted this to alt.atheism to
try to further their cause that atheists are horrible people and should
be murdered by genocide. Nothing could be further from the truth and
here's why:
FOR HIS/HER OWN PROTECTION, hide the "bastard child", as theists call
them spawned out of the religions "wedlock" (permission of the
controlling clergy to spawn them), are called.
We atheists, on the other hand, suffer no such horrible "abomination"
you call SIN, for the simple act of coupling a passing, very
cooperative, horny female in the most natural act of propagating the
species. If the theist's coupling this passing female results in a
birth, it's an abomination against his god to let this child be born
OUT-OF-WEDLOCK. If the atheist, on the other hand, is successful in
propagating the species, the atheist is under no such pressure as sin or
shame or abomination against anyone, including the lucky female who has
answered nature's call to breed. The atheist needs not HIDE his new
child from the scowling eyes of the old ladies of the church's womens'
club or from the Sunday congregation that has been muffling their
horrible ire against the new daddy since the herd found out "she's
pregnant!" The new atheist child is brought into the world, CEMENTING
the NATURAL BOND between its parents...WITHOUT the permission of some
stupid clergy or its dogma and superstitions. The parents proffer the
new child to the atheist community proudly, with honor and WONDER, as
NATURE, not some clergy asshole in a robe shaking his finger at them,
intended. Noone is shamed. A new atheist child has been born! His
atheist life, natural to the Earth, to his species, is ready to take his
place among the living!
Should the new atheist child be left too long in the attention of the
atheist community, however, he IS IN GRAVE DANGER! I've seen it, first
hand! Atheists, unlike those bastards sitting in the pews of your
church who will shun the "bastard child" you spawned out-of-wedlock,
WILL SPOIL THE NEW CHILD HORRIBLY, fawning over him/her, carrying the
new baby around as if THEY were the new parent or grandparent! The poor
little kid doesn't have TWO sets of spoiling grandparents, he has TOO
MANY! The child will never recover showered with love and affection
from a whole COMMUNITY of loving atheists! They all can't WAIT to get
their hands on him when it's "their turn".
The child, of course, needs no "education" (Brainwashing) to some
fantasy religion. Children are born atheists! They don't need
indoctrination in something that never existed. This has certain
disturbing implications for stiff-collared theists who may come in
contact with the atheist child, especially the small ones. The main
problem is usually NAKED. Children of atheists are usually not SHAMED
by some religion's dogma that their bodies are to be abhorred, hidden
and ALWAYS CLOTHED. This artificial religious nonsense isn't
natural....NUDISM IS! Nudist children, who come mostly from non-
religious families (They may not call themselves atheists because they
simply never think about religions.)....Nudist children are probably the
happiest children you'll ever encounter! They have nothing to hide.
They are NEVER ashamed of how they look, even if they are BUTT UGLY!
It's uncanny. They are not indoctrinated that the OTHER naked children
are to be pointed at as horrible sinners! This, of course, leads to a
very outgoing and unshy, demeanor with very high self-esteem. Even some
theists' children exhibit this "horrible defect", as theists see it.
The kids come home from school, forced to wear some horrible uniform as
part of the indoctrination, they barely clear the front door before they
are shedding the horrible itchy wrappings on their way to the kitchen
for snacks. Theists are taught to visualize this horrible, disgusting,
SEXUAL vision of sexual abuse. Until the kid is old enough to respond
to the same stupid dogma his theist parents bear, they have no shame or
guilt or any of that religious BAGGAGE. There's not a sexual thought at
all! It feels good to be naked!
Atheist kids not taught of shame or guilt of their natural bodies are
hard to keep clothed if the weather's warm. They get to the lake house,
jump out of the car, shed their coverings running through grandma's
house, barge out the front door as naked as they were born running down
the dock into the lake! I'm real sorry, but I was that way until I was
a teenager! My atheist cousins, naked and screaming, were trying to
beat me down the dock!
You cannot believe how great that feels, by the way....(c;]
--
Larry
I'm sure atheists abort children, too...but never for the shameful
religious reasons of guilt or sin or hell or any of that stupid
nonsense. I know of no atheists who have aborted, and many who have
ADOPTED...if you can get the damned theists out of the way from blocking
it on "moral grounds" because we refuse to horrify our kids with blood
and murder and genocide and nailing hands to crosses...damn them.
Pink Freud
"jrh" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CCCEAD22...@69.16.185.247...
Wow, did you write that all yourself? Don't give up the day job just yet.
Sanity's Little Helper
Sell the Vatican, feed the world.
--
David Silverman
aa #2208
Defender of Civilisation
"Christian" (n). A person who views insulting non-Christians as a sacred
duity, and any response as persecution
Not authentic without this signature.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
yourself. But when it is not happening in your skin, sit down and shut
the fuck up. You're not going through it, you get no say.
Welcome to flame wars, you cross posting shit head.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
http://azhotops.blogspot.com
A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
BAAWA Knight Sir Karl of the Solaris Media
____________________________________________________________________
Gwen Bennet
Indeed.
> --
> David Silverman
> aa #2208
> Defender of Civilisation
> "Christian" (n). A person who views insulting non-Christians as a sacred
> duity, and any response as persecution
>
> Not authentic without this signature.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
![TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUSX3cHCX_yd7ZKPtBFnLqkwdUHbS2dZ8cfDHe6p1wOEbSEXVM=s40-c)
TRUECRISTIAN[READ THE BIBLE VOte republican=Jesus]
Whole election system is totally fraud. If Democrats win, Jews win and
we lose. If Republicans win, Jews win and we lose. Elections are kept
just because they want Gentiles to think that they are free to choose
whatever they want to do, when in reality we have no legal way to make
change. And it’s not just USA; it’s same in Canada and all over
Europe.
pnyikos
> jrh <n...@spam.com> wrote innews:Xns9CCCEAD22...@69.16.185.247:
>
>
>
> > P1 Death Comes to Love
>
> > Two lovers met, embraced and past
> > a casual affair not meant to last.
> > When the time for choice came no choice was made
> > could think no further than getting laid.
>
> > The seeds of life though sowed in jest
> > start to grow as if meant to last.
>
> > Snuggled within her womb
> > forms of consciousness take the shape
> > of the life she will forsake.
>
> > "Who can I find to cut the cord and set me free
> > by killing the being who lives in me."
>
> > The heart is beating, now it's not
> > as the new life is forced to stop.
>
> > For thoughtless sex a minor cost we have to pay
> > but of the unborn who of you can say.
>
> > Sperm feels great coming down the duct
> > how does the knife feel as he cuts the fetus up.
>
> > This I do not know and can not say
> > but to how the unborn feels
> > as it's life slips away
> > it's the same as any human
> > on their final day
>
> > jrh
Bravo! author! author!
> As you posted this to alt.atheism, I'd like to answer as an atheist from
> an atheist community....
>
> Much to your dismay, I assume, you'll find the abortion of a child who
> belongs to this Earth, a part of its natural evolution, an extension of
> every human ever born, in the natural world, MUCH more abhorrant to the
> atheist as it is to any GUILT-RIDDEN, Brainwashed theist.
That may be true, on the average, but why are so many atheists pro-
choice? True, there are notable exceptions, like Doris Gordon, a very
likable atheist who was the leader of Libertarians for Life when I met
her in 1992.
> I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
> staunch enemies of abortion, which goes against NATURE as there is no
> god....much to theists' astonishment who posted this to alt.atheism to
> try to further their cause that atheists are horrible people and should
> be murdered by genocide.
HUH??? Where do you get this motivation out of what jrh posted?
> FOR HIS/HER OWN PROTECTION, hide the "bastard child", as theists call
> them spawned out of the religions "wedlock" (permission of the
> controlling clergy to spawn them), are called.
That long ago ceased to be the main motivation of pro-lifers, even the
theists among them.
> We atheists, on the other hand, suffer no such horrible "abomination"
> you call SIN, for the simple act of coupling a passing, very
> cooperative, horny female in the most natural act of propagating the
> species. If the theist's coupling this passing female results in a
> birth, it's an abomination against his god to let this child be born
> OUT-OF-WEDLOCK.
Fundies who take the Bible that literally are a decided minority even
among Christians.
If the atheist, on the other hand, is successful in
> propagating the species, the atheist is under no such pressure as sin or
> shame or abomination against anyone, including the lucky female who has
> answered nature's call to breed. The atheist needs not HIDE his new
> child from the scowling eyes of the old ladies of the church's womens'
> club or from the Sunday congregation that has been muffling their
> horrible ire against the new daddy since the herd found out "she's
> pregnant!" The new atheist child is brought into the world, CEMENTING
> the NATURAL BOND between its parents...WITHOUT the permission of some
> stupid clergy or its dogma and superstitions.
Different strokes for different folks, I say, having been an agnostic
for several years and coming to my own pro-life policy based on an
agnostic world-view.
[...]
> I'm sure atheists abort children, too...but never for the shameful
> religious reasons of guilt or sin or hell or any of that stupid
> nonsense. I know of no atheists who have aborted, and many who have
> ADOPTED...if you can get the damned theists out of the way from blocking
> it on "moral grounds"
Are you suggesting that there are laws or customs against letting
atheists adopt just because they are atheists? Very sad, if true.
>because we refuse to horrify our kids with blood
> and murder and genocide and nailing hands to crosses...damn them.
It wasn't Christians who nailed Jesus, Peter, and Andrew to crosses,
you know.
And Pol Pot was no theist.
Peter Nyikos
SkyEyes
> jrh <n...@spam.com> wrote innews:Xns9CCCEAD22...@69.16.185.247:
You do now. I didn't want children, ever, with anyone, under any
circumstances. And my birth control (two forms of it!) failed.
> and many who have
> ADOPTED...if you can get the damned theists out of the way from blocking
> it on "moral grounds" because we refuse to horrify our kids with blood
> and murder and genocide and nailing hands to crosses...damn them.
And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The
vast majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of
their adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even
before their parents tell them about it.
Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate
in school.
And we won't even talk about the 800-pound gorilla in the room, human
overpopulation.
The fact is, abortion is a *damn good and necessary thing*.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
panam...@hotmail.com
> P1 Death Comes to Love
snip crap
We've already discussed your moronic "parables":
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/dec9b2041391b7f6
-PF, Atl.
2015/KoBAAWA!
furlan
<snip>
> I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
> staunch enemies of abortion
<snip>
Is that a fact? How do you exactly know what my stance WRT abortion is?
How do you presume to speak for all who post on alt.atheism? Just
sayin'...
<snip>
--
aa #2301
"...The word that separates that which is dead from that which is
living....In the beginning was the word and that word was...CHOICE"
-- Tom Robbins (SLWW)
furlan
<snip>
> I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
Robibnikoff
"SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote
>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The
>vast majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of
>their adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even
>before their parents tell them about it.
>
>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate
>in school.
Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning the
adoptee serial killers :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & Belly Dancer Supreme
BAAWA Knight
#1557
Frank Mayhar
> "SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote
>>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The vast
>>majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of their
>>adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even before
>>their parents tell them about it.
>>
>>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
>>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate in
>>school.
>
> Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning
> the adoptee serial killers :P
Generalizations are useful. Except when they're not.
(An ex-girlfriend had a daughter who was adopted. One of the most
secure, emotionally strong people I've ever known, for all that she was
ten the last time I saw her. If she's not done well, the only reason
would be her mother's various addictions and quite definitely not the
fact of her adoption. BTW, she knew she was adopted from the getgo; her
mother couldn't have kids of her own thanks to the DES her mother took
when she was pregnant.)
--
Frank Mayhar fr...@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar*
SkyEyes
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:14:58 -0500, Robibnikoff wrote:
> >>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The vast
> >>majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of their
> >>adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even before
> >>their parents tell them about it.
>
> >>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
> >>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate in
> >>school.
>
> > Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning
> > the adoptee serial killers :P
>
> Generalizations are useful. Except when they're not.
>
> (An ex-girlfriend had a daughter who was adopted. One of the most
> secure, emotionally strong people I've ever known, for all that she was
> ten the last time I saw her. If she's not done well, the only reason
> would be her mother's various addictions and quite definitely not the
> fact of her adoption. BTW, she knew she was adopted from the getgo; her
> mother couldn't have kids of her own thanks to the DES her mother took
> when she was pregnant.)
I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
shock and no feeling of deception involved.
Brenda
Robibnikoff
"Frank Mayhar" <fr...@exit.com> wrote in message
news:oq7ut6-...@jill.exit.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:14:58 -0500, Robibnikoff wrote:
>
>> "SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote
>>>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The vast
>>>majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of their
>>>adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even before
>>>their parents tell them about it.
>>>
>>>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
>>>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate in
>>>school.
>>
>> Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning
>> the adoptee serial killers :P
>
> Generalizations are useful. Except when they're not.
Yeah, I have a personal pet peeve about generalizations about adoptees. Have
you noticed? ;)
I've had a lot of that adoptee shit thrown at me and I'm not saying that it
doesn't apply to some, because it does, but whenever I said it didn't apply
to me personally, I always had some asshole saying I was "in denial".
> (An ex-girlfriend had a daughter who was adopted. One of the most
> secure, emotionally strong people I've ever known, for all that she was
> ten the last time I saw her. If she's not done well, the only reason
> would be her mother's various addictions and quite definitely not the
> fact of her adoption. BTW, she knew she was adopted from the getgo; her
> mother couldn't have kids of her own thanks to the DES her mother took
> when she was pregnant.)
I always knew I was adopted too. It really was never a big whoop dee do
until I went looking for my bio family and had some rejection BS going on
there. Still, one of the advantages of being adopted is that adoptive
parents are usually well off - or at least more financially stable than the
birthmother. My adoptive parents left me an f'ing bundle! ;)
jrh
news:f923475e-7919-4dd4...@m35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
> Bravo! author! author!
>> As you posted this to alt.atheism, I'd like to answer
>> as an atheist from an atheist community....
>> Much to your dismay, I assume, you'll find the abortion of a child
>> who belongs to this Earth, a part of its natural evolution, an
>> extension of every human ever born, in the natural world, MUCH more
>> abhorrant to the atheist as it is to any GUILT-RIDDEN, Brainwashed
>> theist.
> That may be true, on the average, but why are so many atheists pro-
> choice? True, there are notable exceptions, like Doris Gordon,
> a very likable atheist who was the leader of Libertarians for Life
> when I met her in 1992.
Bernard Nathanson began opposing abortion when he was an atheist.
Nat Hentoff, an atheist, opposes abortion.
>> I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are staunch enemies of
>> abortion, which goes against NATURE
True! Theists believe the child can get another chance,
for the atheist it's eternal death.
>> as there is no god.... <clip>
God is a concept not a thing. Little "god" is our internal guide
to correct living. Atheists, not believing in God, must come up with
an internal guide on their own. Most theists follow the tenants of
a religion, but the Catholic faith believes ones conscience is the
highest
authority, and the duty of parents and the Church is to form it according
to
God's Word as interpreted by the tradition of the Church.
>> ..... that atheists are horrible people <clip>
Not at all!
Atheist are just people without a concept of God!
jrh
jrh
news:1ce04c19-2770-4647...@e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
>> As you posted this to alt.atheism, I'd like to answer as an atheist
>> from an atheist community.... <clip>
>> Larry
--------------------------------------
>>>> jrh wrote in a prior post:
>>>> Ignorance, by the Self Righteous, Begets Evil.
>>>> The first chapter of the Bible tells of the sin that cursed us and
>>>> the shame of our nakedness that error spawned. We still suffer
>>>> from that same sin, still committing it, forcing our will
>>>> on others. The criminalization of sin does not prevent sin, instead
>>>> it undermines the concept of sin, and empowers those who seek
>>>> to destroy the moral foundations of society.
Is it a sin for a person to kill a being the same as they once
were? If abortion is a sin, should it be a crime? Should all sin
be criminalized? Anti abortion groups want to criminalize the sin
of abortion, and pro abortion groups do not. Should there be any
limits on the jurisdiction of the state. Is what happens within
ones own body a persons responsibility, or should the government
have no bounds?
>>>> It is written in the bible that we can not place our gods, before
>>>> the One True God, the God of Love, yet churches using their
>>>> knowledge of "good and evil", came to judge others and through the
>>>> years they have passed laws that brutalize, and imprison those who
>>>> don't meet their standards of right and wrong.
If pro life groups get their way and define abortion as murder,
should women who abort get the death penalty, or at least a long
prison sentence? If not, what will the legal grounds be for not
prosecuting women who kill their unborn children?
>>>> Christians have long formed coalitions against pornography, child
>>>> sexuality, homosexuality, nudity, drugs, and many other vises.
>>>> These coalitions are responsible for the "fruits" of the repressive
>>>> laws established to punish these sins. The error of human
>>>> vengeance, is a great source of power for evil. Satan, the god
>>>> of error, is served well by "christians" use of fear.
In abortion a human life is destroyed and protecting human life
is a good goal but what is the rationalization for criminaling
other "vices"
>>>> Being against sin is good, the error is the false belief that fear
>>>> can be used to make a better world. Punishment and fear do not
>>>> stop degeneracy, they promote it. The more fear, prison and
>>>> execution, are used to make things "better", the worse things
become.
Will putting women in prison for harming unborn children make things
better?
>>>> A mutated form of puritanism, has turned the power of sex and
>>>> drugs over to criminals, who use them to destroy and enslave an
>>>> ever increasing number of people. The self righteous prohibition
>>>> lets "good" people delude themselves into thinking something
>>>> positive has been accomplished, but in the end it corrupts and
>>>> contributes to the growing decadence, while funneling billions
>>>> into organized crime.
Before the Court legalized abortion, unmarried girls were punished
for having sex (children) and criminals who scraped the unwanted embryos
and fetuses from their wombs using unsanitary tools were if caught
after committing the most heinous crime, let off with a slap on the
wrist.
>>>> This ignorant response to sin, proves to those who follow the
>>>> harmful paths, that "Christianity" is wrong. It shows that
>>>> "Christian Religion" is not about Love and Truth, but about
>>>> repression and fear. It is sad, the blindness and pride of those
>>>> striving to live good Christian lives are feeding the power of
>>>> Satan.
>>>> In the short span of the last hundred years mankind's trend
>>>> towards oblivion has been accelerating. Many Christians believe
>>>> that the final judgement is at hand, and that God will "save" them
>>>> from the growing evil, blind to their role in it's making.
>>>> It will be difficult to reverse this trend, because those who
>>>> "know" they are "saved" are the ones with the greatest sin, the
>>>> sin of pride. We are all sinners, let only those without sin,
>>>> cast stones is the Lord's commandment. Backlash against
>>>> the oppression of sinners by "Christians" is the major cause
>>>> of the political climate that led to the rejection of God's law.
>>>> The blood of this nations children is on everyone's hands.
In other words if Christians hadn't had such a puritanical viev of
sex and focused of helping women with problem pregnancies, rather
than punishing them, abortion would never have become legal.
>>>> When Christians find the correct way we deal with sex,
>>>> drugs and sin, the process of healing can begin,
>>>> without Love guiding us, there is no hope.
In other words, sexuality is a very important part of life,
and it is not healthy to raise children in a sexual vacuum.
The repression of human sexuality has created a horrible mess....
----------------
NFP won't fail if it's followed correctly! Unfortunately Big Pharm
has suppressed it's development so they can make billions pushing
their ineffective abortive steroids that cause cancer and a lot of other
problems.
>> and many who have ADOPTED...if you can get the damned theists out of
>> the way from blocking it on "moral grounds" because we refuse to
>> horrify our kids with blood and murder and genocide and nailing
>> hands to crosses...damn them.
Your anger is focused wrong, everyone is deceived by Satan, especially
religious people. Unfortunately most of them are in denial. When
I saw one wearing an EX-SINNER t-shirt I had to laugh at the
stupid arrogance of the statement.
> And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The
> vast majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of
> their adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even
> before their parents tell them about it.
Open adoption is the best way to go, the more guardians and caring
people a child has the better.
> Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
> psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate
> in school.
Being abandoned causes injury some have difficulty recovering from.
Love and freedom are the answers.
> And we won't even talk about the 800-pound gorilla in the room, human
> overpopulation.
Overpopulation is a myth, created by ignorant twits who control
the Worlds wealth and unconsciously retard development to protect their
holdings. We are overpopulated with cars not people. Cars use more
resources each year than many people do in their lifetimes. A system
one thousand percent more efficient could have been designed and
built twenty years ago had it been funded, but that would have ended
the oil monopoly and the power base for the Capitalists who control it,
So it was suppressed, and 1830's technology at inflated prices
has been used in it's place. .
> The fact is, abortion is a *damn good and necessary thing*.
Killing a human child at any age is evil!
jrh
Spartakus
[--crappy poetry--]
> Bravo! author! author!
It appears that you value political self-justification over
aesthetics. Or even competency.
Don Martin
wrote:
>
>"SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote
>>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The
>>vast majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of
>>their adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even
>>before their parents tell them about it.
>>
>>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
>>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate
>>in school.
>
>Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning the
>adoptee serial killers :P
We know better than to do that AND visit New Jersey.
-
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
Don Martin
wrote:
>I always knew I was adopted too. It really was never a big whoop dee do
>until I went looking for my bio family and had some rejection BS going on
>there.
The children are not the only ones with abandonment issues; if the birth parents
are decent, they will still feel sorrow and guilt. If they are not decent, those
feelings are likely to come out twisted and nasty.
Don Martin
>I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
>was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
>normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
>regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
>he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
>adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
>shock and no feeling of deception involved.
And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did wouldn't hoit.
Robibnikoff
"Don Martin" <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dc92h59qtk0rcrvfi...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:14:58 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
> <witc...@broomstick.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote
>>>And BTW: adoption ain't such a wonderful fairy tale, either. The
>>>vast majority of adopted children don't feel themselves to be part of
>>>their adopted family. Many intuit the fact of their adoption even
>>>before their parents tell them about it.
>>>
>>>Adopted children are also over-represented in both prisons and
>>>psychiatric facilities, and have a higher-than-average drop-out rate
>>>in school.
>>
>>Yeah, thanks for bringing this up. At least thanks for not mentioning the
>>adoptee serial killers :P
>
> We know better than to do that AND visit New Jersey.
Smart move, grasshoppa! ;)
It still irritates me that I have a bro-in-law that stated he would never
consider adoption because adoptees try to kill their adoptve parents when
they grow up. Mine died before I had the chance. Rats! >:P
Robibnikoff
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:56:30 -0800 (PST), SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
>>was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
>>normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
>>regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
>>he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
>>adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
>>shock and no feeling of deception involved.
>
> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did wouldn't
> hoit.
Tell them that you're glad about what?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & Belly Dancer Supreme
BAAWA Knight
#1557/
Don Martin
Don Martin
wrote:
Ah, the adopted child's life is paved with disappointments . . . .
Enkidu
>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did wouldn't
>> hoit.
>
> Tell them that you're glad about what?
Tell 'em you're glad you adopted them, that they make your life
complete.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120635709
Robyn, make sure you click "Listen".
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
-Susan B. Anthony
Robibnikoff
True, especially when said adoptive parents were quite wealthy and left my
adopted brother and me quite a bundle. It's truly heartbreaking, I tell you
;)
Robibnikoff
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:32:12 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
> <witc...@broomstick.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Don Martin" <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:ne92h51qjst22qpaj...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:56:30 -0800 (PST), SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
>>>>was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
>>>>normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
>>>>regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
>>>>he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
>>>>adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
>>>>shock and no feeling of deception involved.
>>>
>>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did
>>> wouldn't
>>> hoit.
>>
>>Tell them that you're glad about what?
>
> Adopting them.
I remember my mom being angry with my abro and I and telling us what rotten
kids we were. I told her to feel free to send us back to the adoption
agency and get a new set if we were so awful.
Adoptees are so ungrateful, aren't we? ;)
The Whistle-blower
> "Don Martin" <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6103h51q2pammuch1...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:32:12 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
> > wrote:
>
> >>"Don Martin" <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ne92h51qjst22qpaj...@4ax.com...
> >>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:56:30 -0800 (PST), SkyEyes <skyey...@cox.net>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>>I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
> >>>>was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
> >>>>normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
> >>>>regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
> >>>>he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
> >>>>adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
> >>>>shock and no feeling of deception involved.
>
> >>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did
> >>> wouldn't
> >>> hoit.
>
> >>Tell them that you're glad about what?
>
> > Adopting them.
>
> I remember my mom being angry with my abro and I and telling us what rotten
> kids we were. I told her to feel free to send us back to the adoption
> agency and get a new set if we were so awful.
>
> Adoptees are so ungrateful, aren't we? ;)
"Push it baby, push it"
> --
> Robyn
> Resident Witchypoo & Belly Dancer Supreme
> BAAWA Knight
> #1557/- Hide quoted text -
Don Martin
wrote:
Yeah, but I gotta say, you were a gutsy little broad. Good onyer!
Free Lunch
>
>"Don Martin" <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:6103h51q2pammuch1...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:32:12 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
>> <witc...@broomstick.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Don Martin" <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:ne92h51qjst22qpaj...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:56:30 -0800 (PST), SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I'm adopted as well, and like your ex's daughter, I've always known I
>>>>>was adopted. In my family, it was considered to be a perfectly
>>>>>normal, ordinary thing that was talked about quite freely and
>>>>>regularly. Not telling the child - or not telling the child "until s/
>>>>>he's old enough to understand" - is the *worst* thing to do with an
>>>>>adoptive child. Tell 'em early, tell 'em often: that way there's no
>>>>>shock and no feeling of deception involved.
>>>>
>>>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> hoit.
>>>
>>>Tell them that you're glad about what?
>>
>> Adopting them.
>
>I remember my mom being angry with my abro and I and telling us what rotten
>kids we were.
Parents are parents and act like parents, no matter how they got the
kids.
>I told her to feel free to send us back to the adoption
>agency and get a new set if we were so awful.
Well said. I suppose that earned you either a trip to your room or a
swat.
>Adoptees are so ungrateful, aren't we? ;)
Yeah, sure.
I think the first step to becoming an adult is the willingness (often at
a really bad time) to talk back to your parents.
Free Lunch
wrote in alt.atheism:
"were"? Time to use the progressive.
And she's not even old enough to be called feisty, yet.
Don Martin
>>>>>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> hoit.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tell them that you're glad about what?
>>>>
>>>> Adopting them.
>>>
>>>I remember my mom being angry with my abro and I and telling us what rotten
>>>kids we were. I told her to feel free to send us back to the adoption
>>>agency and get a new set if we were so awful.
>>>
>>>Adoptees are so ungrateful, aren't we? ;)
>>
>>Yeah, but I gotta say, you were a gutsy little broad. Good onyer!
>
>"were"? Time to use the progressive.
>
>And she's not even old enough to be called feisty, yet.
She'll get there. I have every confidence.
Robibnikoff
In reality, it was a terrible thing to say, but it sure shut her up! ;)
Robibnikoff
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:44:45 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> And while telling them that, mentioning that you are glad you did
>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> hoit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tell them that you're glad about what?
>>>>>
>>>>> Adopting them.
>>>>
>>>>I remember my mom being angry with my abro and I and telling us what
>>>>rotten
>>>>kids we were. I told her to feel free to send us back to the adoption
>>>>agency and get a new set if we were so awful.
>>>>
>>>>Adoptees are so ungrateful, aren't we? ;)
>>>
>>>Yeah, but I gotta say, you were a gutsy little broad. Good onyer!
>>
>>"were"? Time to use the progressive.
>>
>>And she's not even old enough to be called feisty, yet.
>
> She'll get there. I have every confidence.
Egad, I'm closer to 50 than to 40 (MUCH closer). Can't I at least be feisty?
Free Lunch
<witc...@broomstick.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
>
I thought that was for women who are old. My mom is 80 and she only
agree that she was old a couple of years ago.
Steve Knight
snip
>Egad, I'm closer to 50 than to 40 (MUCH closer). Can't I at least be feisty?
Gasp!
But.. but.. but... you're still a hot sex kitten in our minds eye.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
Robibnikoff
"Steve Knight" <skni...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:t134h5tchv9spovi7...@4ax.com...
LOL, yeah in my mine too, but......... ;)
Don Martin
Seconded.
Don Martin
wrote:
>
Nah. In your fifties, surly is all you can get. You have to achieve real
geezerdom to get feisty. Hang in there!
Robibnikoff
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:57:30 -0800, Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:38:01 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
>><witc...@broomstick.com> wrote:
>>
>>snip
>>
>>>Egad, I'm closer to 50 than to 40 (MUCH closer). Can't I at least be
>>>feisty?
>>
>> Gasp!
>>
>> But.. but.. but... you're still a hot sex kitten in our minds eye.
>
> Seconded.
<giggle>
Robibnikoff
Alrighty then :)
Guess "bitchy" and "snarky" will have to do for now :)
chloe
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:13:13 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> >jrh <n...@spam.com> wrote innews:Xns9CCCEAD22...@69.16.185.247:
>
> >> P1 Death Comes to Love
>
> >> Two lovers met, embraced and past
> >> a casual affair not meant to last.
> >> When the time for choice came no choice was made
> >> could think no further than getting laid.
>
> >> The seeds of life though sowed in jest
> >> start to grow as if meant to last.
>
> >> Snuggled within her womb
> >> forms of consciousness take the shape
> >> of the life she will forsake.
>
> >> "Who can I find to cut the cord and set me free
> >> by killing the being who lives in me."
>
> >> The heart is beating, now it's not
> >> as the new life is forced to stop.
>
> >> For thoughtless sex a minor cost we have to pay
> >> but of the unborn who of you can say.
>
> >> Sperm feels great coming down the duct
> >> how does the knife feel as he cuts the fetus up.
>
> >> This I do not know and can not say
> >> but to how the unborn feels
> >> as it's life slips away
> >> it's the same as any human
> >> on their final day
>
> >> jrh
>
> >As you posted this to alt.atheism, I'd like to answer as an atheist from
> >an atheist community....
>
> >Much to your dismay, I assume, you'll find the abortion of a child who
> >belongs to this Earth, a part of its natural evolution, an extension of
> >every human ever born, in the natural world, MUCH more abhorrant to the
> >atheist as it is to any GUILT-RIDDEN, Brainwashed theist....WHO MUST,
> >NOTICE TO ALT.ABORTION: This post was sent to alt.atheism, alt.religion
> >and talk.abortion as well as your newsgroup. Everyone needs to add all
> >4 groups to posts as the poster only wanted replies to alt.abortion for
> >his own agenda and purposes.
> > I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
> >staunch enemies of abortion,
>
> As a staunch atheist, who is pro-choice. Who's atheist friends are all
> pro-choice I challenge your presumption to speak for myself and other
> atheist.The only argument against abortion is based on religious
> beliefs. Abortions are common as hell in nature. Misscarriages are a
> dime a dozen. It's nature way of culling. Granted atheist seldom have
> or try to force their lovers to have an abortion. And most all of
> those I know have always been very careful to avoid a unwanted
> pregnancy.
>
>
>
> > which goes against NATURE as there is no
> >god....much to theists' astonishment who posted this to alt.atheism to
> >try to further their cause that atheists are horrible people and should
> >be murdered by genocide. Nothing could be further from the truth and
> >here's why:
>
> >FOR HIS/HER OWN PROTECTION, hide the "bastard child", as theists call
> >them spawned out of the religions "wedlock" (permission of the
> >controlling clergy to spawn them), are called.
>
> >We atheists, on the other hand, suffer no such horrible "abomination"
> >you call SIN, for the simple act of coupling a passing, very
> >cooperative, horny female in the most natural act of propagating the
> >species. If the theist's coupling this passing female results in a
> >birth, it's an abomination against his god to let this child be born
> >OUT-OF-WEDLOCK. If the atheist, on the other hand, is successful in
> >propagating the species, the atheist is under no such pressure as sin or
> >shame or abomination against anyone, including the lucky female who has
> >answered nature's call to breed. The atheist needs not HIDE his new
> >child from the scowling eyes of the old ladies of the church's womens'
> >club or from the Sunday congregation that has been muffling their
> >horrible ire against the new daddy since the herd found out "she's
> >pregnant!" The new atheist child is brought into the world, CEMENTING
> >the NATURAL BOND between its parents...WITHOUT the permission of some
> >stupid clergy or its dogma and superstitions. The parents proffer the
> >new child to the atheist community proudly, with honor and WONDER, as
> >NATURE, not some clergy asshole in a robe shaking his finger at them,
> >intended. Noone is shamed. A new atheist child has been born! His
> >atheist life, natural to the Earth, to his species, is ready to take his
> >place among the living!
>
> >Should the new atheist child be left too long in the attention of the
> >atheist community, however, he IS IN GRAVE DANGER! I've seen it, first
> >hand! Atheists, unlike those bastards sitting in the pews of your
> >church who will shun the "bastard child" you spawned out-of-wedlock,
> >WILL SPOIL THE NEW CHILD HORRIBLY, fawning over him/her, carrying the
> >new baby around as if THEY were the new parent or grandparent! The poor
> >little kid doesn't have TWO sets of spoiling grandparents, he has TOO
> >MANY! The child will never recover showered with love and affection
> >from a whole COMMUNITY of loving atheists! They all can't WAIT to get
> >their hands on him when it's "their turn".
>
> >The child, of course, needs no "education" (Brainwashing) to some
> >fantasy religion. Children are born atheists! They don't need
> >indoctrination in something that never existed. This has certain
> >disturbing implications for stiff-collared theists who may come in
> >contact with the atheist child, especially the small ones. The main
> >problem is usually NAKED. Children of atheists are usually not SHAMED
> >by some religion's dogma that their bodies are to be abhorred, hidden
> >and ALWAYS CLOTHED. This artificial religious nonsense isn't
> >natural....NUDISM IS! Nudist children, who come mostly from non-
> >religious families (They may not call themselves atheists because they
> >simply never think about religions.)....Nudist children are probably the
> >happiest children you'll ever encounter! They have nothing to hide.
> >They are NEVER ashamed of how they look, even if they are BUTT UGLY!
> >It's uncanny. They are not indoctrinated that the OTHER naked children
> >are to be pointed at as horrible sinners! This, of course, leads to a
> >very outgoing and unshy, demeanor with very high self-esteem. Even some
> >theists' children exhibit this "horrible defect", as theists see it.
> >The kids come home from school, forced to wear some horrible uniform as
> >part of the indoctrination, they barely clear the front door before they
> >are shedding the horrible itchy wrappings on their way to the kitchen
> >for snacks. Theists are taught to visualize this horrible, disgusting,
> >SEXUAL vision of sexual abuse. Until the kid is old enough to respond
> >to the same stupid dogma his theist parents bear, they have no shame or
> >guilt or any of that religious BAGGAGE. There's not a sexual thought at
> >all! It feels good to be naked!
>
> >Atheist kids not taught of shame or guilt of their natural bodies are
> >hard to keep clothed if the weather's warm. They get to the lake house,
> >jump out of the car, shed their coverings running through grandma's
> >house, barge out the front door as naked as they were born running down
> >the dock into the lake! I'm real sorry, but I was that way until I was
> >a teenager! My atheist cousins, naked and screaming, were trying to
> >beat me down the dock!
>
> >You cannot believe how great that feels, by the way....(c;]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
As a staunch atheist, who is pro-choice. Who's atheist friends are
all
pro-choice I challenge
oooh, and what a challenge for...just guessing....a man. Pro-choice
is so easy for men....just a shake
SkyEyes
I'm a *woman*, and I'm pro-choice. Got a question about that, chloe
dear?
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
Robibnikoff
"SkyEyes" <skye...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:5cf36478-e470-471c...@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Me too, as was my mother and her mother before her, also my sisters and
SILs.
The Chief Instigator
> On Nov 25, 12:21?pm, Rob Par <rob...@mypbmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:13:13 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>> >jrh <n...@spam.com> wrote innews:Xns9CCCEAD22...@69.16.185.247:
>>
>> >and talk.abortion as well as your newsgroup. ?Everyone needs to add all
>> >4 groups to posts as the poster only wanted replies to alt.abortion for
>> >his own agenda and purposes.
>> > I'm on alt.atheism and we, as a group, are
>> >staunch enemies of abortion,
>>
>> As a staunch atheist, who is pro-choice. Who's atheist friends are all
>> pro-choice I challenge your presumption to speak for myself and other
>> atheist.The only argument against abortion is based on religious beliefs.
>> Abortions are common as hell in nature. Misscarriages are a dime a
>> dozen. It's nature way of culling. Granted atheist seldom have or try
>> to force their lovers to have an abortion. And most all of those I know
>> have always been very careful to avoid a unwanted pregnancy.
>>
>> >astonishment who posted this to alt.atheism to try to further their
>> >cause that atheists are horrible people and should be murdered by
>> >genocide. Nothing could be further from the truth and here's why:
>>
>> >FOR HIS/HER OWN PROTECTION, hide the "bastard child", as theists call
>> >them spawned out of the religions "wedlock" (permission of the
>> >controlling clergy to spawn them), are called.
>>
>> >We atheists, on the other hand, suffer no such horrible "abomination"
>> >you call SIN, for the simple act of coupling a passing, very
>> >cooperative, horny female in the most natural act of propagating the
>> >birth, it's an abomination against his god to let this child be born
>> >propagating the species, the atheist is under no such pressure as sin or
>> >shame or abomination against anyone, including the lucky female who has
>> >child from the scowling eyes of the old ladies of the church's womens'
>> >club or from the Sunday congregation that has been muffling their
>> >horrible ire against the new daddy since the herd found out "she's
>> >the NATURAL BOND between its parents...WITHOUT the permission of some
>> >new child to the atheist community proudly, with honor and WONDER, as
>> >NATURE, not some clergy asshole in a robe shaking his finger at them,
>> >atheist life, natural to the Earth, to his species, is ready to take his
>> >place among the living!
>>
>> >Should the new atheist child be left too long in the attention of the
>> >hand! ?Atheists, unlike those bastards sitting in the pews of your
>> >church who will shun the "bastard child" you spawned out-of-wedlock,
>> >WILL SPOIL THE NEW CHILD HORRIBLY, fawning over him/her, carrying the
>> >poor little kid doesn't have TWO sets of spoiling grandparents, he has
>> >affection from a whole COMMUNITY of loving atheists! ?They all can't
>> >WAIT to get their hands on him when it's "their turn".
>>
>> >The child, of course, needs no "education" (Brainwashing) to some
>> >indoctrination in something that never existed. ?This has certain
>> >disturbing implications for stiff-collared theists who may come in
>> >problem is usually NAKED. ?Children of atheists are usually not SHAMED
>> >by some religion's dogma that their bodies are to be abhorred, hidden
>> >natural....NUDISM IS! ?Nudist children, who come mostly from non-
>> >religious families (They may not call themselves atheists because they
>> >simply never think about religions.)....Nudist children are probably the
>> >They are NEVER ashamed of how they look, even if they are BUTT UGLY! ?
>> >It's uncanny. ?They are not indoctrinated that the OTHER naked children
>> >are to be pointed at as horrible sinners! ?This, of course, leads to a
>> >very outgoing and unshy, demeanor with very high self-esteem. ?Even
>> >some theists' children exhibit this "horrible defect", as theists see
>> >uniform as part of the indoctrination, they barely clear the front door
>> >before they are shedding the horrible itchy wrappings on their way to
>> >disgusting, SEXUAL vision of sexual abuse. ?Until the kid is old enough
>> >to respond to the same stupid dogma his theist parents bear, they have
>> >sexual thought at all! ?It feels good to be naked!
>>
>> >Atheist kids not taught of shame or guilt of their natural bodies are
>> >house, jump out of the car, shed their coverings running through
>> >grandma's house, barge out the front door as naked as they were born
>> >way until I was a teenager! ?My atheist cousins, naked and screaming,
>> >were trying to beat me down the dock!
>>
>> >You cannot believe how great that feels, by the way....(c;]
>
> pro-choice I challenge
>
> oooh, and what a challenge for...just guessing....a man. Pro-choice
> is so easy for men....just a shake
Well, I've only been pro-choice for four decades, about the same as my wife
has been...and her daughter turned 34 last week, grew up pro-choice (in
South Dakota, of all places), and she's a mother of three, the oldest of
whom is in her third year of being a teenager. (That ticks off some of the
committed - a few of which are eminently committable - to no end. ;-)
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2009-10 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 2, Toronto 1 (OT, November 28)
NEXT GAME: Thursday, December 3 vs. San Antonio, 11:05 AM