grandma
n.c.
of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
I address myself.
First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a college graduate of the
University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with a
pre-med concentration.
A few years ago I was at my wit's end. I had been an Objectivist. One of the
follower's of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. By definition, I was an atheist. I
did not, was not, and figured I never would be, comfortable with the idea of
God or a god making demands on my life. The problem was that I could not
escape the idea that God existed. You know what? I HATED that idea. If God
did exist, I didn't want Him to. It wasn't until after I was saved that the
apostle Paul explained why I couldn't get rid of the idea of God. Romans
1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God
hath showed it unto them." Paul also explained what me, being a natural man
and not saved, wanted to do about the idea of God. Romans 1:28"And even as
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge....."
In any event, the intellectual struggles between myself and my conscience,
which was constantly convicting me of sin, led me to attempt suicide. It
didn't work. I took five whole packages of sleeping pills, a bottle of an
anti-anxiety medication, and any other pill I could find, and washed it down
with Vodka. I went to the hospital and woke up completely fine. My pulse had
stopped when the paramedics found me, but they revived me after being "gone"
four to five minutes.
After this did I have some religious experience? No. I hated God even more.
I wanted to be free of Him and my knowledge of Him.
I had hurt my family so much by doing that. I didn't care about my own life.
I cared about theirs. For the longest time I thought that I would rather die
then lose my grandmother. She had raised me, and I'd never known a time when
she wasn't by my side. Maybe that was what partly drove me. I didn't want to
live without grandma.
Anyway, I spoke to my next door neighbor. He told me that even though I was
a good person that it didn't matter. If I had died I would have gone to
hell. That's because God wrote through Paul saying, "As it is written, There
is none righteous, no, not one....there is none that doeth good."-Romans
3:10-11 God went on to further say that "..all have sinned, and come short
of the glory of God."
In God's sight we were all wicked, including Paul, but God gave a way out
with His son, Jesus Christ. The apostle John said, "For God do loved the
world that he gave his only begotten Son, the whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life."-John 3:16
I couldn't believe that I would have gone to hell, but it was true. All of
it was true, and when I dropped all of my pride my heart, my soul, and my
very mind attested to the fact that it was all true. What could I do? I
didn't want to go to hell. My neighbor used the words of Paul:
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."-Romans
10:9; 10:13
I was saved, and slowly my life changed. I can't tell you how in the past
two years the Lord has worked on me. I doubted whether God created us, I
doubted whether the bible was true. The Lord answered all my questions in
His time. The bible is ALL true. I can't stress that enough to you. I swear
that if I could cut off my hands to prove that to you that I would. It is so
wonderfully true that book.
But my story is not why I am writing. I am writing because my grandmother is
dying. I look at that sentence and I realize that it's true. It hurts to see
it, but it's true. My sweet grandmother. She always bought me toys when I
asked her. She took care of my bruises. She sang me to sleep. She's dying.
There will actually be a time when I will live and she won't. I have to deal
with that, but it's so hard.
Last year she had a massive heart attack. I thought I had lost her for sure.
She had a quadruple bypass and survived. Now, she has breast cancer. The
doctor's said that if she has the surgery she will probably die because her
heart is to weak.
So much has happened to me in the last year. My mother lost her job, grandma
had a heart attack, I went overseas to medical school after giving away all
my possessions, and had to come back with nothing to show for it.
Financially, I'm a mess. I'm bankrupt. I have to borrow a car to get to
work, or walk. I'm losing my house because I can't afford it. Now, my
grandmother will die.
My mind is telling me that God has done nothing for me. But you know what?
My heart tells me differently. Jesus never said that if we were saved that
life would be perfect. No, he said that there would be many hardships. We
could not trust that all would be well, but what we could trust was that if
we believed on Jesus would be saved and have everlasting life with Him in
heaven. I believe this to be true. I believe that no matter what happens in
my life, the Lord loves me and grieves with me when bad things happen. How
do I know this? Because the bible tells me so. It repeats what my heart
knows already.
My grandmother is not saved. When she dies she will go to hell. She will
suffer there for her sins. My sweet grandmother can not escape hell unless
she gets saved. That's a fact. I pray everyday that she will be saved.
Look, I don't know you, and you don't know me. I know what you've read about
Christians. I know what you may think of them, but I tell you that you must
be saved or you will go to hell. Jesus loves you so much. God sent His
innocent son to die for you. He is all-loving, but He is also a just God,
and a just God can't allow sin as long as He exists. God is demanding. He
demands perfection to enter into heaven, and no one except Jesus can satisfy
His demands. But, "God commendeth his love towards us, in that, while we
were yet sinners Christ died for us." -Romans 5:8
Friend, I don't want to argue with you. We could debate each other for years
and you would walk away believing what you wish. Lower your pride, I beg
you. Please accept Jesus into your heart. It doesn't matter what you have
done. No sin is to great to lay upon Jesus. Jesus saved harlots, murderers,
and every other kind of sinner. He cleansed them and made them perfect
before the Father's sight.
I could wallow in my pity. I could hate God. My mother just told me an hour
ago about my grandmother's condition. I hurt more than you could know, but
the love of Jesus is telling me that the pain I feel for my grandmother, the
stinging grief I feel over knowing that she will go to hell if she dies,
that I should use that pain to tell others of His love.
I pray that you will forget about the garbage your college professors may
have told you, your parents, your siblings, your ministers, and get on your
knees and ask God to forgive you your sins. Tell God that you are sorry that
your sins led His perfect son to suffer and die on the cross. Ask Jesus to
come into your heart. Please. I plead with you. I won't walk around prideful
because you follow something I do. I will be overjoyed that Jesus has done
in your life what he has done in mine.
In Closing:
A man called Jesus lived in Judea. He was a thorn in the side of the Jews
and the Romans. Many Roman historians spoke of Him and His strange beliefs.
He existed. Even His enemies could find no fault with Him. He came to suffer
for your sins. He came to die willingly for you and I. This man existed. He
either existed or every historian from Rome, and every man who saw Him and
suffered and died for believing in Him was a liar. Friend, Jesus did exist.
Today He is asking you who do you say He is. Is He a great teacher? Is He
another way to God? Is He God in the flesh who died for your sins? If He is,
then what must you do?
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except
through me." -John 14:6
John Hattan
>By definition, I was an atheist. I
>did not, was not, and figured I never would be, comfortable with the idea of
>God or a god making demands on my life. The problem was that I could not
>escape the idea that God existed.
Then you weren't an atheist, genius.
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
jo...@thecodezone.com http://www.freespeech.org/shatner
Steve Knight
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
>of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
>appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
>I address myself.
Snip over a hundred lines of the most pathetic drivel I've read in
years. Yech!
Don't preach here, asshole. Fuck you and fuck your hag grandma.
Jeeze... what a simpering pussy.
Excuse me. I need the toilet. Your post made me sick.
(gak! gak! gak!)
Steve Knight #855
Knight of BAAWA
Michelle Malkin
<nic...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
>of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
>appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
>I address myself.
Bible quotes and blather snipped.
>
If you had posted to this newsgroup before, you would know
that proselytizing and posting nothing but bible quotes is
against our newsgroup FAQ. Your Bible blather is not welcome
in alt.atheism. You were incredibly rude to send such a
message to an atheist newsgroup. Please don't do this again.
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
aa atheist/agnostic list #1 ULC #3 ~EAC list #1
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC Bible Thumper Thumper BAAWA Knight Who Says SPONG!
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to
give it to others. - William Allen White, Emporia Gazette
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Christopher A. Lee
n.c. <nic...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
>of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
>appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
>I address myself.
>
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a college graduate of the
>University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with a
>pre-med concentration.
What's your problem Granny? Is it that you are so out of
touch with reality that you feel you have to talk about
Santa Claus as though he really existed, to those who
grew out of it years ago?
Because that's what you're doing.
[snip idiocy]
Quite frankly, only a braindead masochist post that kind of
drivel.
Go away until you've goyt something to say that isn't an
insult to the intelligence.
Brian Westley
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
>of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists.
Which is much more than you deserve. Here's some of your claptrap
from about a year ago in alt.politics.republicans:
The black community has benn kissing Democrat ass (and vice-versa) for a
long time. Why? Because they can get government hand outs. We owe them.
Do you ever hear about blacks that preach self-sufficiency? Nope! They're
called Uncle Toms.
The Democrats are a party of niggers, spics, crackers, and queers. This
ecclectic bunch has power as its sole purpose. The Republicans are a
bunch of wimps who cower behind furniture at the slightest hint of
battle.
See http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=444795730
Plus, you're an obvious troll, given that you freely contradict
yourself:
From 06/11/99
http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=488463965
A few books on primate morality are on the market and offer some very
exciting information. It seems that primates will punish a fellow
primate if during times of scarcity this primate refuses to share
with the rest of the group. It would seem then that morality is an
evolutionary phenomenon. It is merely the phenomenon of group survival.
Since the ultimate goal is survival, and a primate's chances of survival
are increased by group cooperation , it would behoove an individual
primate to perform actions conducive to the continuation of the
group.
Indeed, most moral actions can be explained by the "naturalistic drive"
to survive.
From 06/20/99
http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=491809430
Many on this ng have accused me of being immoral because I believe in
the doctrine of eternal judgment. In other words, I believe in hell.
So my friends, by what moral system do you condemn me? By your own?
Society's? Allah's? Since morality is irrelevant w/o Jesus Christ you
have no way to judge my actions!
So, in nine days, you go from an evolutionary explanation to an
exclusively theistic one. But, unfortunately, you stated you were
a christian months before this, so you can't say you "use to" be
an atheist when you made the earlier post.
You've made a whopping 25 posts in your whole usenet "career".
Quit while you're behind. Actually, just fuck off.
dejanews is my friend, and your worst enemy.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Don Kresch
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses.
And you were whipped soundly. You ran away like a little fucking coward
last time. You told me to stop mailing you after I showed you that your idea of
what evolution is was a strawman. You couldn't hack it---you fucking weak-ass
shit.
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian.
I'm sorry for you.
> I have been saved by the
>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a college graduate of the
>University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with a
>pre-med concentration.
Wasted on such a dipshit like you.
>A few years ago I was at my wit's end. I had been an Objectivist. One of the
>follower's of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. By definition, I was an atheist. I
>did not, was not, and figured I never would be, comfortable with the idea of
>God or a god making demands on my life. The problem was that I could not
>escape the idea that God existed.
Then obviously you were a theist and you have done some research into
Objectivism.
[snip babble drek]
>In any event, the intellectual struggles between myself and my conscience,
>which was constantly convicting me of sin, led me to attempt suicide. It
>didn't work. I took five whole packages of sleeping pills, a bottle of an
>anti-anxiety medication, and any other pill I could find, and washed it down
>with Vodka. I went to the hospital and woke up completely fine. My pulse had
>stopped when the paramedics found me, but they revived me after being "gone"
>four to five minutes.
Here we have the standard "I was a drunk/sex fiend/bad person atheist
before I found god". It's so McDowell-ish in its petulance. And it's a load of
shit.
[snip more drek]
Unless you can prove that there is a god, shut the fuck up.
Don
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, EAC Decryption squad
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
Francois Tremblay
<8a1kc7$229$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>:
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses.
>Most of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists.
>Though I appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this
>newsgroup that I address myself.
>
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Who's that ? I don't know any lord (english title maybe ? comic book
character ?) called "Jesus Christ".
If you mean the Babble character, it's fiction.
--Franc
--
Strong-atheist #1 (boycott alt.atheism numbers !)
Objective Thinking web site - www.angelfire.com/pq/fratre
Mindkites magazine - www.mindkites.com
"To be open-minded is to be misanthropic : to most people, reasonable
disagreement is hatred"
Decimal
>
> I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
> of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
> appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
> I address myself.
Reasonable so far.
> First of all, let me say that I am a Christian.
Ok.
> I have been saved by the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
*Preaching Alert!* The rest of this post is entirely predictable.
> I am a college graduate of the University of South Florida. I earned a
> bachelor's in philosophy with a pre-med concentration.
>
> A few years ago I was at my wit's end. I had been an Objectivist. One of the
> follower's of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. By definition, I was an atheist. I
> did not, was not, and figured I never would be, comfortable with the idea of
> God or a god making demands on my life.
Odd. How I would like there to be a god watching over everyone, making
sure things turn out all right, that everyone gets what they deserve in the
end. There isn't.
<<->>
> After this did I have some religious experience? No. I hated God even more.
> I wanted to be free of Him and my knowledge of Him.
Then you were no atheist.
*takes rubber stamp, plants the word "LIAR" firmly across the bleater's
forehead*
-- Decimal [a.a. #482]
"I'm left with the simple knowledge that people suck."
-- Andy Richter
The correct prefix for the return address is 'marble'.
Dave Holloway
You said you didn't want to argue, so rather than argue, I just want
to tell you a story. You may recognize it.
Once upon a time, there was a God. Since he was God, he could do
anything he wanted -- he could bend the shape of reality to suit his
purposes. He had the power to do or create anything. But he was also a
benevolent God.
One day, after doing pretty much nothing for eternity, he was struck
with the desire to do something. What did he do? He could have created
Heaven, a place where he would live in bliss for eternity. But
instead, he created Angels to be his companions and helpers (even
though he was God, and therefore didn't really need any company or
help).
So he created angels and endowed them with Free Will. But one of the
angels, Lucifer, caused a great stink amongst the angels and wanted
them all to rebel. God thought to Himself, "Should I zap Lucifer into
nonexistence? No. Should I zap him so that he only does good? No, that
would interfere with free will."
But being God, the decision came to him immediately: he would create
Hell, a place of indescribable torment, to which he would banish
Lucifer forever. And so God created Hell, where there would be wailing
and gnashing of teeth for eternity.
But for some reason, God did not send Lucifer to Hell right away.
Instead, God allowed Lucifer to hang around and spread his
rebeliousness until Judgement Day, when God would condemn Lucifer and
all his followers to Hell. So Lucifer was allowed to roam around
before God gave him his just punishment.
Having done this, God then created Earth and all of its inhabitants.
Earth is a glorious achievement, but the jewel in the crown are the
Humans, whom God created in his own image. Earth is a perfect
paradise, which the first humans, Adam and Eve, have to themselves.
God had placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. He then placed the
tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden, and told the pair
not to eat from that tree. Eve, however, under the influence of Satan,
eats from the tree, and shares the food with her husband.
Being a benevolent and all-powerful God, God had the option of simply
forgiving the humans unconditionally, and zapping the evil Lucifer out
of the picture, thus making everything right. But for whatever reason,
the all-benevolent and just God instead condemned the humans and all
their descendants to a life of pain and hardship, as well as an
eternity in Hell after their death, and allowed the evil Lucifer to
operate on Earth until Judgement Day.
After a few thousand years of human suffering, you take pity on the
humans and decide to give them a chance to redeem themselves. Rather
than simply forgiving them and restoring the universe to its original
perfection, hoewver, he decided to send his Son to be born into the
world, in Bethlehem, to a virgin named Mary. He then allowed Lucifer
and the humans to kill his Son through the painful process of
crucifixion.
After Jesus was miraculously resurrected, having paid the price for
humanity's sin, God had the option of eliminating all suffering and
restoring the universe to its original perfection. (Of course, he had
that option at any time.) Rather than doing that, however, God decided
that only those who believed that Jesus was his son and was
resurrected would go to Heaven, and the rest would be condemned in
Hell.
A couple thousand years past, and most of the humans seemed to have
trouble believing that God existed. He had not interacted with the
humans in any meaningful way for centuries, you see, and all the
information about God that the humans had were a handful of ancient
and contradictory manuscripts written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.
Also, not everyone had heard of Jesus, due to cultural and
geographical isolation. God had the option of giving every human at
this point perfect knowledge of him and his son. What he did instead
was to allow a bunch of ignorant humans who claimed to be God's
spokespersons to continue interpreting his will according to these
obscure manuscripts. He allowed their numerous absurd and
contradictory doctrines to be taught by ignorant humans to other
ignorant humans without correction.
And so time passed, and Judgement Day finally came. God found that
only a handful of humans had passed his standards for entering Heaven;
the rest had been converted by Lucifer to his evil cause. Being a
benevolent and just God, he decided to simply snap his fingers and
make everything right again.
Well, no, he didn't. What he did was to carry out ordained punishment;
Lucifer and his billions of followers were condemned to an eternity of
endless torment in Hell, and the few followers of God were taken up to
live with him in bliss for eternity. Being omniscient, of course, God
heard the screams from the tormented souls in hell for eternity. It is
not known whether he even considered making everything right again and
releasing the infidels from Hell, restoring them to perfection and
goodness. It IS known that he ignored the screams and let the infidels
suffer for all of eternity.
Let me conclude, Nick, with a bit of good news for you:
The fairy tale I have just told you is just that: a fairy tale.
Dave
--
From the warped mind of Dave Holloway:
Quotemeister
a.a. #1184
Director of Defense and Sabotage, EAC Mars Division
Disgruntled Merkin
"Since experiences of God are good grounds for the
existence of God, are not experiences of the absence
of God good grounds for the nonexistence of God?
After all, many people have tried to experience God
and have failed. Cannot these experiences of the
absence of God be used by atheists to counter the
theistic argument based on experience of the
presence of God?"
--Michael Martin
TGN
looking forwards to going to hell because all the nice people like your gran
will be there.
Graeme
--
"Expansion leaves the ashes of change."
Graeme Nattress: gnat...@mac.com
www.systementerprises.com/pixels
Geertrude Verweij
Here's a thought for you:
Seems to me you're only a christian because you can't accept there is no
afterlife.
Makes sense to you?
You think there must be something after you die, lot of people do (I don't).
So then there are two choices (Well, more, but you seem to skip thinking about
reincarnation, so I will too).
Either you go to heaven or you go to hell.
Perfectly clear reason to become a christian isn't?
There must be something of a brain inside you, but you don't really use it.
You know it's not right that your grandma will go to hell because she's not a
christian, she is a good person.
Now can't you accept the fact she's just dying? When she's death, she's gone.
Not to hell or heaven, just gone.
The only thing left will be your memories of her. You say you love her so much,
but you keep picturing her in hell. Isn't a memory I would be able to live
with....
Using your grief to spread your fears for hell and hoping that will convert us
is really pathetic, by the way.....
Geertrude
--
Truth is relative.
It is only a matter of opinion.
Animeg3282
It's sad that your granny died, and I'm glad you found a belief system that
works for you, however, it's against the rules of the NG to try to convert us
to your religoin.
Hana no Kaitou
Pledged to the Way of the Wimp
"It's better to light a candle than to make up myths about the darkness"-me
Cynical Prophet
> My grandmother is not saved. When she dies she will go
> to hell. She will
> suffer there for her sins. My sweet grandmother can
> not escape hell unless
> she gets saved. That's a fact. I pray everyday that
> she will be saved.
I'm sorry for your grandmother, and I would like to know
how you feel about God sending her to Hell.
MG
"Its' all a matter of perspective."
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Robibnikoff
Most
> of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
> appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this
newsgroup that
> I address myself.
>
> First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by
the
> precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Oh dear - you do realize you're posting to alt.atheism, I hope. With
all due respect, we are not interested in hearing about xianity or any
other religion. MYOB.
I am a college graduate of the
> University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with
a
> pre-med concentration.
And this is supposed to mean something because............?
snippage
Thanks for the little reminder of why I am so glad that I was raised
without religion. I can't believe you actually attempted suicide over
a non-existant being. How sad.
I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. However, death is a part of
life and you better get used to that idea very quickly.
> I was saved, and slowly my life changed. I can't tell you how in the
past
> two years the Lord has worked on me. I doubted whether God created
us, I
> doubted whether the bible was true. The Lord answered all my
questions in
> His time. The bible is ALL true.
Prove it, please.
I can't stress that enough to you. I swear
> that if I could cut off my hands to prove that to you that I would.
Well, then you're a fool. I wouldn't maim myself to prove a point.
It is so
> wonderfully true that book.
Prove it, please.
>
> But my story is not why I am writing. I am writing because my
grandmother is
> dying. I look at that sentence and I realize that it's true. It hurts
to see
> it, but it's true. My sweet grandmother. She always bought me toys
when I
> asked her. She took care of my bruises. She sang me to sleep. She's
dying.
> There will actually be a time when I will live and she won't. I have
to deal
> with that, but it's so hard.
Read what I wrote above - Death is a normal part of life. Get used to
the idea.
>
Snippage of babbling.
With all due respect, you need to get a life - some mental health
counseling wouldn't hurt either.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
A. O'Reilly
says...
> The problem was that I could not
> escape the idea that God existed. You know what? I HATED that idea.
Well, 'tis hard to shake off things that have been beaten into our heads
from childhood. Personally, I've escaped the idea and I have no hatred
for it. I'm sorry you feel differently.
<snip Bible verse>
Quoting an inherently contradictory 2000 year old book written out of the
ingorance of ancient men is no way to convince us of anything, but thank
you ever so much for trying.
> I was saved, and slowly my life changed.
Yes, let's take a look at how it has changed -- and I mean no offense --
your mother lost her job, your grandmother had a heart attack, you're
broke, and you're losing your house. Yes, God has really looked out for
you. Meanwhile, I am a happily married atheist surrounded by good
friends with a high-paying job and a fulfilling life on top of all that.
> My mind is telling me that God has done nothing for me. But you know what?
> My heart tells me differently. Jesus never said that if we were saved that
> life would be perfect.
However, the Bible is quite clear that if you pray for something, and do
not do it out of your lusts, then it shall be granted. Have you prayed
for your mother to find a job? Or for you grandmother? If so, did it
work? If not, then you can wave goodbye to your illusory Jesus.
> My grandmother is not saved. When she dies she will go to hell. She will
> suffer there for her sins. My sweet grandmother can not escape hell unless
> she gets saved. That's a fact. I pray everyday that she will be saved.
Then it's not a fact... if you pray, and you're doing it for her and not
for yourself, then she HAS to be saved according to the Bible -- although
this puts God in a bit of a hard spot, what with not living up to his
hellfire and damnation tough love bullshit routine.
> Look, I don't know you, and you don't know me. I know what you've read about
> Christians. I know what you may think of them, but I tell you that you must
> be saved or you will go to hell.
Um, I was a Christian... but thanks.
> Jesus loves you so much. God sent His
> innocent son to die for you. He is all-loving, but He is also a just God,
> and a just God can't allow sin as long as He exists.
An all-loving God probably shouldn't have invented evil. But he did.
Oops.
> God is demanding. He
> demands perfection to enter into heaven, and no one except Jesus can satisfy
> His demands.
Actually, Jesus said there was none good but God. I think you need to
read your Bible again.
> I pray that you will forget about the garbage your college professors may
> have told you, your parents, your siblings, your ministers, and get on your
> knees and ask God to forgive you your sins.
Yes, verily I say unto you, forget your education! Right!
Please go away.
cz...@ecn.ab.ca
: I was an atheist.
[...]
: I could not escape the idea that God existed.
I must say, that's a novel way to define atheism.
[snip this pinhead's life story]
Look, wankstain, I'm sorry your life has taken some turns for the worse,
but nobody cares about your damnfool belief system. Is there no more
constructive way you could be spending your time than proselytizing (an
activity expressedly forbidden by your scriptures)?
Just what did you think (and I use the verb generously) you were going
to accomplish with your waste-of-space post?
--
*************************************************************
In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a
degree that it would be perverse to withold provisional
assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise
tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time
in physics classrooms.
-Stephen Jay Gould
*************************************************************
JT IceFire
It's probably not allowed, but could I nominate this entire post for AQOTM?
_________________________________________________________
JT IceFire
That was cool huh huh
When we killed that frog huh huh
It won't croak again
atheist #idon'tknowwhat
Number 38, not 36, on the de-conversion list (Sorry, Mr. PB&J)
Bang bang!
Tukla Ratte
< snip >
> In any event, the intellectual struggles between myself and my conscience,
> which was constantly convicting me of sin, led me to attempt suicide.
IOW, you were driven to suicide by religious indoctrination. Be sure to
thank your parents for brainwashing you.
> It
> didn't work. I took five whole packages of sleeping pills, a bottle of an
> anti-anxiety medication, and any other pill I could find, and washed it down
> with Vodka. I went to the hospital
That was dumb. You didn't really want to kill yourself, obviously.
> and woke up completely fine. My pulse had
> stopped when the paramedics found me, but they revived me after being "gone"
> four to five minutes.
Since they had to revive you, your deity must not have wanted you to
live. Better try again.
> After this did I have some religious experience? No. I hated God even more.
> I wanted to be free of Him and my knowledge of Him.
You "hated God"? So, you *weren't* an atheist, then.
> I had hurt my family so much by doing that. I didn't care about my own life.
> I cared about theirs. For the longest time I thought that I would rather die
> then lose my grandmother. She had raised me, and I'd never known a time when
> she wasn't by my side. Maybe that was what partly drove me. I didn't want to
> live without grandma.
<puzzled> You contemplated killing your grandmother?
> Anyway, I spoke to my next door neighbor.
"I found out his name was 'Binky'."
> He told me that even though I was
> a good person that it didn't matter. If I had died I would have gone to
> hell.
Yep. Pretty sick, demented religion, eh?
> That's because God wrote through Paul saying, "As it is written, There
> is none righteous, no, not one....there is none that doeth good."-Romans
> 3:10-11 God went on to further say that "..all have sinned, and come short
> of the glory of God."
>
> In God's sight we were all wicked, including Paul,
I'll agree that Paul was wicked, what with founding such a sicko
religion.
> but God gave a way out
> with His son, Jesus Christ. The apostle John said, "For God do loved the
> world that he gave his only begotten Son, the whosoever believeth in him
> should not perish, but have everlasting life."-John 3:16
>
> I couldn't believe that I would have gone to hell, but it was true. All of
> it was true, and when I dropped all of my pride my heart, my soul, and my
> very mind attested to the fact that it was all true.
Ah. The drugs fucked up your brain.
> What could I do? I
> didn't want to go to hell.
Don't worry. You won't. Neither will anybody else. Hell doesn't
exist.
> My neighbor used the words of Paul:
> "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
> in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
> For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."-Romans
> 10:9; 10:13
Boy, your neighbor was just *waiting* for this conversation, wasn't he?
> I was saved, and slowly my life changed.
<boggles> Pascal's Wager actually *worked* on someone?
Oh. Right. You weren't an atheist to begin with. My mistake.
> I can't tell you how in the past
> two years the Lord has worked on me.
"At least, not on a family forum."
> I doubted whether God created us, I
> doubted whether the bible was true. The Lord answered all my questions in
> His time. The bible is ALL true. I can't stress that enough to you. I swear
> that if I could cut off my hands to prove that to you that I would.
Hey, if you cut off your hands, I *will* be convinced. <crosses
foretoes behind back> I *swear*.
> It is so
> wonderfully true that book.
It is useful on occasions. Allow me to demonstrate.
<pulls out a Bible and proceeds to beat n.c.'s head to a lumpy, bloody
pulp>
< snip >
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Director, EAC Animoid Shocktroop Division
Defender of the Honor of She Who Leads the EAC
atheist #1347, Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
BAAWA Knight, Bat-Winged Calico Angora Rat
Furry Peace! http://www.fur.com/peace
Panama Floyd
>From: jtic...@aol.comnooh (JT IceFire)
>Date: 3/7/00 4:01 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20000307160115...@ng-cc1.aol.com>
>
snip great story
>It's probably not allowed, but could I nominate this entire post for AQOTM?
>
Hmm..seems the Quotemeister wrote it himself. We'd have to ask about that, too.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
aa# maybe soon...
EAC Reclamation Committee Chair (..Soylent Green is people!!...)
"The altar cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain, Notebook, 1898
I'm the EAC, and I vote!!
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/6/00 3:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <8a1kc7$229$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
>
>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of responses. Most
>of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
>appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup that
>I address myself.
>
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
snip
/public service on
Look. You xian folks need to understand something. Long, rambling heartbreaking
stories DO NOT convert anyone. I know you all enjoy them among yourselves (for
some reason I don't understand), but to someone who doesn't think the way you
do...they sound like you've made them all up.
And if they *are* true?...
Addiction relief, dying relatives, former atheists? Your stories are so full of
aching, hurting people-and you *use* every last one's misfortune as another
attempt to somehow convince people who think differently than you that they
should accept
your way of thinking.
To folks that do not share your religion, these stories are appalling. Any
appeal the hurting person 's story might have had to our compassion is vastly
outweighed by anger that someone would use the pain and suffering of another as
some sort of "recruiting effort".
Everyone has hard times in life. Some of us just find a way to deal with pain
on our own, without having to "lay blame" or "find a reason". You want to know
pain?
Pretend there is a *third* thing that could happen to grandma. Pretend that she
will simply stop being who she is. Everything she ever was, everything she ever
would have been is GONE...and to convince yourself otherwise would violate
every bit of honesty you have. If you lie to yourself about what happens to
grandma, you'll start to lie to yourself about the little things, too. And
then...you're just not an honest person anymore (please do not say that
"honesty", or any other "moral" is unimportant to one who does not think like
you do..it's a very large insult in here).
Death has a much greater impact upon the skeptic than it does on the thiest. To
us, it's REAL. No place to escape, either as a reward *or* punishment.
Once again...these stories DO NOT work upon the target audience. We find them
vain, silly, and sometimes even insulting.
Hey, Jack Chick's stuff even has pictures...and they don't work either!
What will work? Easy.
Repeatable, verifiable (yes, even in the lab) evidence that the creature you
wish us to worship actually exists.
Please recall that if such a creature *is* ever found, that you will then have
to repeat the process to prove that it's yours, and not someone else's.
\public service mode off
Dave Holloway
No. FAR too long. Thanks, though. :o)
Quotemeister Dave
Theo
> Bla, bla, bla.
> "I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except
> through me." -John 14:6
So I have to rip him open, and go right thru him?
--
--When someone claims the truth, a lot of people will die because of it --
chibiabos
<dcho...@cord.edu> wrote:
C'mon, Dave. You're keying on these things. You gotta put it in just
for kicks.
And, just for kicks, and to placate Robert and his stupid rules, I
second.
-chib
--
wild(at our first)beasts uttered human words
--our second coming made stones sing like birds--
but o the starhushed silence which our third's
--e.e. cummings
Mark Richardson
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian.
Sorry to hear it.
>
>A few years ago I was at my wit's end. I had been an Objectivist. One of the
>follower's of the philosophy of Ayn Rand.
Oh dear.
> By definition, I was an atheist. I
>did not, was not, and figured I never would be, comfortable with the idea of
>God or a god making demands on my life. The problem was that I could not
>escape the idea that God existed.
Then you were a believer having a crisis of faith not an atheist.
> You know what? I HATED that idea. If God
>did exist, I didn't want Him to.
If something exists, it exists. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Wanting is irrelevant to what is.
<snip preaching>
I have heard it all before.
>In Closing:
>
>A man called Jesus lived in Judea.
Several men called Jesus live in mexico.
And L.A. for that matter.
> He was a thorn in the side of the Jews
>and the Romans.
He is reported to have been a thorn in the side of the Jews
and the Romans.
You don't have to believe everything you read.
> Many Roman historians spoke of Him and His strange beliefs.
They were reporting what people said and believed about him.
They should believe everything they hear.
>He came to die willingly for you and I.
(1) That is horrible. I don't want anyone to die for me.
(2) He couldn't have died for me because i didn't exist then.
>Is He a great teacher?
I don't think so. I will never know, because he is dead and all we
have is a bunch of people claiming to speak for him.
>Is He another way to God?
What's "God"?
>Is He God in the flesh who died for your sins?
I don't understand the question.
What's "God"?
>If He is, then what must you do?
I don't understand the question.
What's "God" apart from a string of letters forming a grunting noise
that rhymes with "odd"?
>
>"I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except
>through me." -John 14:6
>
"To be, or not to be, that is the question."
Hamlet - Shakespeare
Mark.
------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson
m.rich...@utas.edu.au
____________________________________________________________
Dan McEwen
If you could, I would certainly second it.
Puck Greenman
wrote:: this little lot,
and Puck xposted again...
>Oh dear - you do realize you're posting to alt.atheism, I hope.
I think that the stupid fu** is well aware of which NG it has posted to, It is the
only one it has posted to.
A word with it's ISP would probably be in order.
> With
>all due respect, we are not interested in hearing about xianity or any
>other religion. MYOB.
Seconded.
Puck Greenman
#162
BAAWA Knight.
ICQ 15096558
The spelling, like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
nemo...@yahoo.com
Most
> of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists. Though I
> appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads this newsgroup
that
> I address myself.
>
You have my sympathy. I used to be a bleater, but I grew out of it.
<snip>
> A few years ago I was at my wit's end. I had been an Objectivist. One
of the
> follower's of the philosophy of Ayn Rand. By definition, I was an
atheist.
I know that feeling, too. I was once a believer who had been an atheist
(Marxist, to be precise) who thought that I needed *GAWD!*
Life does hold some strange twists for those who make an honest effort
to think.
<snip boring bleating>
> In any event, the intellectual struggles between myself and my
conscience,
> which was constantly convicting me of sin, led me to attempt suicide.
As I expected, you came to a crisis and allowed your decisions to come
as a result of violent emotions. That's no way to live life. You're
capable (as the majority of people are) of using reason. The fact that
you feel ashamed of yourself (worrying over "sin" as if it existed) and
tried to kill yourself over it shows that you have chosen the path of
allowing your emotions to rule your life. I think it's sad to see people
like this.
Please don't misunderstand me. I experience emotions, just like everyone
else. However, I try never to make decisions based on my emotional
state. When I do, I find that it most often turns out badly. I expect my
experiences in this respect are typical. Anyway, I'll now go back to
trying to see what all this has to do with grandma...
> Anyway, I spoke to my next door neighbor. He told me that even though
I was
> a good person that it didn't matter. If I had died I would have gone
to
> hell.
And you beieved him? How objectivist was that?
<snip more bleating, including as passing mention of grandma>
> I was saved, and slowly my life changed. I can't tell you how in the
past
> two years the Lord has worked on me. I doubted whether God created us,
I
> doubted whether the bible was true. The Lord answered all my questions
in
> His time. The bible is ALL true. I can't stress that enough to you. I
swear
> that if I could cut off my hands to prove that to you that I would. It
is so
> wonderfully true that book.
Obviously, you haven't read all of it. It is no more true than any other
religious text. You are a time-wasting idiot. Please do us all a favor
and spread your religious manure in a place where it won't harm anyone.
>
> But my story is not why I am writing. I am writing because my
grandmother is
> dying.
Everyone dies. Why should you or your gram be any different?
> I look at that sentence and I realize that it's true. It hurts
to see
> it, but it's true. My sweet grandmother. She always bought me toys
when I
> asked her. She took care of my bruises. She sang me to sleep. She's
dying.
> There will actually be a time when I will live and she won't. I have
to deal
> with that, but it's so hard.
>
> Last year she had a massive heart attack. I thought I had lost her for
sure.
> She had a quadruple bypass and survived. Now, she has breast cancer.
The
> doctor's said that if she has the surgery she will probably die
because her
> heart is to weak.
>
> So much has happened to me in the last year. My mother lost her job,
grandma
> had a heart attack, I went overseas to medical school after giving
away all
> my possessions, and had to come back with nothing to show for it.
> Financially, I'm a mess. I'm bankrupt. I have to borrow a car to get
to
> work, or walk. I'm losing my house because I can't afford it. Now, my
> grandmother will die.
>
> My mind is telling me that God has done nothing for me. But you know
what?
> My heart tells me differently. Jesus never said that if we were saved
that
> life would be perfect.
In fact, he did.
Matt 17:20 - He said to them, "Because of your little faith. For truly I
tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to
this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing
will be impossible for you."
All you need to do, according to Jesus, is pray for the solution to all
your problems - nothing is impossible to you.
Mk 16:17,18 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using
my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they
will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing,
it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they
will recover.
Just lay you hands on Gram - she'll be right as rain, according to
Jesus! Then, there's the rest of your book-o-blood -
Ps 34:9,10 - O fear the LORD, you his holy ones, for those who fear him
have no want. The young lion suffers want and hunger, but those who seek
the LORD lack no good thing.
Ps 84:11 - For the LORD God is a sun and shield; he bestows favor and
honor. No good thing does the LORD withhold from those who walk
uprightly.
Ps 91:9,10 - Because you have made the LORD your refuge, the Most High
your dwelling place, no evil shall befall you, no scourge come near your
tent.
Ps 121:5-8 - The LORD is your keeper; the LORD is your shade at your
right hand. The sun will not strike you by day, nor the moon by night.
The LORD will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. The LORD
will keep your going out and your coming in from this time and
forevermore.
Prov 12:21 - No harm happens to the righteous, but the wicked are filled
with trouble.
So what's the problem? Are you not a True Believer? Or is it just barely
possible that you live in a world that is NOT under the ultimate control
of an ultimate controller who cares about the smallest details of your
sexual fantasies?
<snip>
> My grandmother is not saved. When she dies she will go to hell. She
will
> suffer there for her sins. My sweet grandmother can not escape hell
unless
> she gets saved. That's a fact.
You have no clue what constitutes a fact. Your claim of having been an
objectivist is now quite laughable.
What a goomba!
<snip rest of useless bleat>
Nemo, writing while on special EAC assignment in Mississippi. The
overlords will pay!
Niall McAuley
>My grandmother is not saved. When she dies she will go to hell.
What a charming belief system you've got there. I wish I
could believe lovely stories like this for no reason at all.
>I pray that you will forget about the garbage your college professors may
>have told you, your parents, your siblings, your ministers, and get on your
>knees and ask God to forgive you your sins.
It isn't working. Quite the opposite in fact. I'll bet that your grandma story
will have the effect of reinforcing people's bad opinion of Christianity,
and will sway the fence sitters towards atheism.
--
Niall #36 [real address ends in se, not es]
stoney
Tremblay) wrote:
]>nic...@sprynet.com (n.c.) wrote in
]><8a1kc7$229$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>:
]>
]>>I've posted to this newsgroup before. I've gotten a lot of
responses.
]>>Most of them have been from very intelligent, and polite atheists.
]>>Though I appreciate those responses it is to everyone that reads
this
]>>newsgroup that I address myself.
]>>
]>>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved
by the
]>>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
]>
]>
]>Who's that ? I don't know any lord (english title maybe ? comic book
]>character ?) called "Jesus Christ".
]>If you mean the Babble character, it's fiction.
Ummm, iirc Tarzan was Lord Greystoke.
Stoney
Tags
>suffer there for her sins. My sweet grandmother can not escape hell unless
>she gets saved. That's a fact.
I'm sorry but you are one sick fuck.
--
Tags: af #1730
web design - http://www.limitwebdesign.co.uk
html help - http://www.limitwebdesign.co.uk/htmlhelp/
--
"The difference you make makes no difference at all"
Landis D. Ragon
<snip>
>
>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
< puzzled expression >
Saved from what?
>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a college graduate of the
>University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with a
>pre-med concentration.
>
>
--
Landis Ragon (dS = dq/T)
Chief Elf in the Toy Factory.
"I've got a little list--I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!"
-- Gilbert and Sullivan : "The Mikado"
Tukla Ratte
> "n.c." wrote:
>
> > Bla, bla, bla.
>
> > "I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except
> > through me." -John 14:6
>
> So I have to rip him open, and go right thru him?
Cool!
<chanting> Do...it...do..it....
Mark Richardson
wrote:
>
>/public service on
>
>Look. You xian folks need to understand something. Long, rambling heartbreaking
>stories DO NOT convert anyone.
.
.
.
>And if they *are* true?...
>Addiction relief, dying relatives, former atheists?.
.
.
.
>To folks that do not share your religion, these stories are appalling. Any
>appeal the hurting person 's story might have had to our compassion is vastly
>outweighed by anger that someone would use the pain and suffering of another as
>some sort of "recruiting effort".
<snip rest>
>\public service mode off
Excellent post!
Well said.
Mark
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/9/00 2:39 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <38c7e554...@news.dtg.com>
>
>On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:41:30 +0100, Theo wrote:
>
>> "n.c." wrote:
>>
>> > Bla, bla, bla.
>>
>> > "I am the way, the truth, and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except
>> > through me." -John 14:6
>>
>> So I have to rip him open, and go right thru him?
>
>Cool!
>
><chanting> Do...it...do..it....
>
Oh, yeah...sounds like grandma found freedom (xian: "not saved"). The sick
bastard wants to insult her on her death bed?.....tear that sick one apart,
Tukla.
Don't eat any of it...it may contain a virus that would make you sick.
Just shread the lil' idiot into very small pieces, and let the street cleaners
pick up the trash.
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/10/00 12:20 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <38d18464...@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
Thanks, Mark...I just hope that some of those folks posting that crap actually
read, and understood it.
Cynical Prophet
> Thanks, Mark...I just hope that some of those folks
> posting that crap actually
> read, and understood it.
Don't hold your breath.
MG
"It's all a matter of perspective."
Puck Greenman
wrote:: this little lot,
and Puck xposted again...
>
><snip>
>
>>
>>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
>
>< puzzled expression >
>
>Saved from what?
>
night and I didn't get home for a week. >;->
>
>
>>precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a college graduate of the
>>University of South Florida. I earned a bachelor's in philosophy with a
>>pre-med concentration.
>>
>>
>--
>Landis Ragon (dS = dq/T)
>Chief Elf in the Toy Factory.
>"I've got a little list--I've got a little list
>Of society offenders who might well be underground,
> And who never would be missed--who never would be missed!"
> -- Gilbert and Sullivan : "The Mikado"
Puck Greenman
Panama Floyd
>Date: 3/10/00 8:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <25462065...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com>
snip
> Don't hold your breath.
>
> MG
Sadly, agreed.
Landis D. Ragon
>On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:18:17 GMT, in alt.atheism Landis D. Ragon <Landis...@ibm.net>
>wrote:: this little lot,
>and Puck xposted again...
>>"n.c." <nic...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>
>>>First of all, let me say that I am a Christian. I have been saved by the
>>
>>< puzzled expression >
>>
>>Saved from what?
>>
> I knew a vicar once, ho pent his life saving fallen ladies. He saved one for me one
> night and I didn't get home for a week. >;->
>
Ohh... Saving fallen ladies. I like that. Is there a catalog of the
entire set?
> #162
>
> BAAWA Knight.
>
> ICQ 15096558
>
> The spelling, like any opinion stated here,
> is purely my own
--
TANSTAAFL!
point to it? It seems to me that in fact, you never gave up your
faith, you simply shoved it to the back of your mind and fought
a war of conscience over it. It is terribly hard for some people
to give up believing no matter what they say or do or think.
Objectivism is a fancy term for "Severe Capitalist." While some
of Ayn Rand's ideas are nice, unfortunately, they are about as
idealistic and realistic as Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, or Josef Stalin,
whom she was diametrically opposed to. Getting back to your
forcing yourself to hate religion, if you had all these emotional
reactions to something that doesn't exist, this indicates mental
instability, not that god exists. It indicates that you are probably
angry at whomever got you into religion and whomever got you
out of religion. The subject of god(s) is null because it is impossible
to talk about something that is not verifiable to have existed. You
can argue from the point of view that it's impossible to prove that
god doesn't exist, but that is the same wishful thinking that got
you into trouble the first time. If god came down to me in the
flesh and stood before me and said: "Now do you believe?"
I think I'd still have to ask him for his I.D. I suppose if
religion makes you feel better about yourself and your
mental state then have fun with it, I'm still not sure why
you felt the need to share with the list how you were "saved"
from eternal damnation, but again, thanks for sharing.
Oh, and hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.
Jeffrey
--
"The more is the pity that fools may not speak wisely what wise men do
foolishly."
-Touchstone the Jester:
"As You Like It"
-William Shakespeare
Everything you never wanted to know about me and were afraid to ask:
http://www.geocities.com/starsabre1/
ICQ#7413844