FWIW, SinglePagePlugin, but not using Presentation mode:
http://www.spinwardstars.com/HouseForSale/
- Sam
FWIW, SinglePagePlugin, but not using Presentation mode:
http://www.spinwardstars.com/HouseForSale/
I think Saq's Presentation TW is the first thing that properly realises this. I think the concepts from presentation plugin should become core as they are so important for TW's usefulness as a web site authoring tool.
Note 2, there are plenty of other potential "killer apps" for TW (another thread?). Small web site authoring could be a big one though. There's nothing that can come close to the ease of use and ease of entry for web site authors.
Note 3, "Save tw to static html" would also be a very big deal in this field.
A. A TiddlyWiki core that makes it easy to give each page two "faces",
for authors and for browsers (And somehow to make this possible even
via tiddlyspot ; ) ).
B. An easy "publication" process that churns out a page without
editing features, but which *does* have javascript enough to enable
robust browsing. (Publishing to straight html would also be nice for
various purposes, but the result would not in any sense preserve the
strengths of the TiddlyWiki browsing experience.
Whether via A or B, the browsing experience should, at minimum:
1. have a simplified toolbar (where "view" is usually *not* necessary,
because the reader is not there to peek into pre-wikified text).
(ASIDE, is there a way to get Tiddlyspot to differentiate between http-
author access and http-browse access, in order to make use of such
features?)
2. have a simplified set of sidebar tabs and sidebar options (browsers
don't need to be bewildered by orphans, missing, etc.), and carefully-
set-up print css.
The "B" path would be much more coding-intensive, I realize. As files
grow in size, however, it would allow a substantial savings, because
most plugins and certain core authoring code bits could be left out.
Ideally (and this may be a more parochial concern) it could hard-
convert all "redirects" so that there's not lots of scripting on
load.
The "A" path has the delightful feature of not needing to be "run" --
edit your page and as soon as its available online viewers can
immediately access that page via their own simplified interface.
-Spandrel
On Feb 7, 8:30 pm, "Simon Baird" <simon.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...From a random web
> user's point of view they were confronted with weirdness like a "edit"
> button and "save changes" button etc. ...
> I think the concepts from presentation plugin should become core as they are
> so important for TW's usefulness as a web site authoring tool. (Not the
> slideshow part so much but the author/viewer mode part).
> ...
> Where we are now in regard to small web site authoring/publishing:
>
> Authoring tools: Best thing since sliced bread
> User experience: A little bit clunky. Weird buttons. Weird tabs. A little
> confusing. Some learning curve perhaps.
>
> Where we need to be: (or can be thanks to Presentation mode)
> Authoring tools: ...sliced bread
> User experience: As good if not better than any other web site
...
Let me chime in that in my view, what's valuable about a "presentation
mode" is nullified by "single page mode". That is, I think of
A TiddlyWiki core that makes it easy to give each page two "faces",
for authors and for browsers (And somehow to make this possible even
via tiddlyspot ; ) ).
My biggest obsticle when creating my works was having to learn TW
while writing the content. Hard to creative when doing both at the
same time. Therefore, I think it would be great to have a ready to go
system for those who need to spend their creative on their subject
matter and not the media. A repository of several ready-to-go TW files
with all the bells-n-whistles included would be a great thing to have.
The presentation_empty_full would be the first in that repository but
wouldn't sit there alone. (I hope.)
I'm too busy writing content to fiddle with TW, but if I ever get to
it, I would like to made a few minor changes to the look-n-feel, like
removing the menu on the left, reducing the choices on the sidebar on
the right.Perhaps even do away with everything on the right
altogether. Also I would like to have only the references button
(which will always be visible). Whenever I get around to doing all
that (and learning how to do it), I will post an empty_full for the
community to use.
Joe
On Feb 8, 3:38 pm, "Simon Baird" <simon.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/9/07, springer <springerspand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Let me chime in that in my view, what's valuable about a "presentation
> > mode" is nullified by "single page mode". That is, I think of
>
> I should make it clear my suggestion for SinglePageMode in the core was that
> it should be off by default. Only switched on by those who want it (but not
> via a cookie, sorry getting off track).
>
> > A TiddlyWiki core that makes it easy to give each page two "faces",
> > for authors and for browsers (And somehow to make this possible even
> > via tiddlyspot ; ) ).
>
> If you use Presentation TW that is available now. You go tohttp://sitename.tiddlyspot.com/#author:trueto author.
>
> [snip]
>
> Re, A and B, some good points. A is simpler. B allows lighter-weight
> publishing.
>
> Simon.
>
> --
> Simon Baird <simon.ba...@gmail.com>
On Feb 8, 1:26 pm, "DenizenOfAsgard"
This is pretty much exactly what Benevolent Leader Jeremy was talking
about a year ago, but he called it "editions". Maybe it's time for a
revival of the "editions"
idea..
;Daniel
--
Daniel Baird
http://tiddlyspot.com (free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)
http://danielbaird.com (TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
Things That Suck)
TiddlyWiki folk (TiddlyFolk?) would like a big list of flavours, so
they can get exactly what they're after without messing around
adapting something.
On the other hand, Joe Newbie would be put off by having to choose
from a huge list.
The current front page design is aimed at Joe Newbie (and always will
be). But I'm working on a solution that will let TiddlyFolk switch on
a much bigger list of flavours, with every common template, but also
crazy stuff like the latest betas of mGTD and D3, and tiddlywiki fresh
off the top the subversion source code repository.
Don't hold your breath though. I'm kinda caught up in the plugin
repository project..
;Daniel
I wonder, though, if the current list of options is so simple for
newbies. What is Standard? What is GTD? Joe Newbie might feel asked
to make a choice among items that mean nothing much yet.
Could he or she handle something like?
TiddlyWiki can be set up for lots of tasks. We have set some up for
common tasks. Maybe one of these would suit you? (They are not
stripped down versions; we just hide the stuff you won't need right
off.)
<quote>
A. Keep a Blog
B. Manage recipes, addresses, etc.
C. Keep track of my schedule and Get Things Done
D. Create a reference manual
E. Keep Class Notes
F. Create a cross-referenced wiki (this would get the standard)
G. Create a simple web page (This gets Presentation?)
</quote>
For each major task, there is a tw set up to handle it as simply as
possible. Might work.
On Feb 8, 7:25 pm, "Daniel Baird" <danielba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At tiddlyspot we have conflicting motivations when it comes to
> deciding on the list of flavours.
>
> TiddlyWiki folk (TiddlyFolk?) would like a big list of flavours, so
> they can get exactly what they're after without messing around
> adapting something.
>
> On the other hand, Joe Newbie would be put off by having to choose
> from a huge list.
>
> The current front page design is aimed at Joe Newbie (and always will
> be). But I'm working on a solution that will let TiddlyFolk switch on
> a much bigger list of flavours, with every common template, but also
> crazy stuff like the latest betas of mGTD and D3, and tiddlywiki fresh
> off the top the subversion source code repository.
>
> Don't hold your breath though. I'm kinda caught up in the plugin
> repository project..
>
> ;Daniel
>
> Daniel Bairdhttp://tiddlyspot.com(free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)http://danielbaird.com(TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
> Things That Suck)
As it stands, GTD is about 40% of the tiddlyspot sites created, so D3
and mGTD pretty much have to be on the list -- if we just said "GTD",
we'd have to pick one favourite :)
I think probably we'll have some kind of "help me decide" text, rather
than re-name flavours.
;D
PS i'll reply to your student-blog thread eventually..
On 09/02/07, jventola <jven...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
--
Daniel Baird
http://tiddlyspot.com (free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)
http://danielbaird.com (TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
Things That Suck)
> Simon Baird <simon.ba...@gmail.com>
I have created a beta copy of my site using presentation plugin and
single page mode. I would think it works for my target audience.
http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/beta/beta.html
Its not quite finished yet, but I will be doing some market research
from my audience (which is about 14,000 hits per month) and they will
decide if I adopt the presentation style or stick with the old TW
style.
Maybe something like TWPublisher or PublisherPlugin?
> Also, what do you guys think of the idea of packaging in the the
> templates as shadow tiddlers so it can be as easy to install as just
> copying the one plugin tiddler?
Since I hate plugins spread over more than one tiddler, I'd be all for this.
> Obviously the templates I include might not be to everyone's liking, but
> in that case they can just tweak them.
Just like with vanilla TW...
> So this means I need names for the "viewing" or "public" stylesheet and
> pagetemplate, ie the ones with editing disabled. Any suggestions?
> PublicStyleSheet and PublicPageTemplate perhaps?
The "Public" prefix sounds good.
> should I continue to distribute two versions of the empty file? One with
> just whats needed to disable editing, and the other with the extras like
> SinglePageMode, NavigationPlugin etc?
I think that would be useful - although, if I'm not mistaken, to get
from the 'full' to the 'lite' version, all you'd have to do is delete
those extra plugins' tiddlers, no?
-- F.
> Since we are somewhat on this topic already.... would someone like to
> suggest a better name for this than "PresentationPlugin" ? That name is
> very misleading as this can be used for websites, presentations, resumes
> etc....
Maybe something like TWPublisher or PublisherPlugin?
> So this means I need names for the "viewing" or "public" stylesheet and
> pagetemplate, ie the ones with editing disabled. Any suggestions?
> PublicStyleSheet and PublicPageTemplate perhaps?
The "Public" prefix sounds good.
> should I continue to distribute two versions of the empty file? One with
> just whats needed to disable editing, and the other with the extras like
> SinglePageMode, NavigationPlugin etc?
I think that would be useful - although, if I'm not mistaken, to get
from the 'full' to the 'lite' version, all you'd have to do is delete
those extra plugins' tiddlers, no?
" Doesn't seem to work in Safari browser on my Mac. The header and
contents list down left side appear, but no content in main area.
Clicking on a link seems to open the link but this collapses to
nothing at top of screen immediately."
Is anyone else aware of these issues in Safari?
I've tested both my versions and the presentation version does not
display correctly.
Also tried Saq's : http://tiddlysnip.com/ This too only shows the side
menu's and not the main content
http://tw.hessgames.com/game.php
-sean
On Feb 9, 5:00 pm, "Saq Imtiaz" <lew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Early testing suggests SinglePageModePlugin is to blame.
> Try disabling it and see if that fixes it.
>
> On 2/10/07, freewargamesrules <pete.jo...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > If you need to test your websites on MacOSX browsers there is a place
> > called BrowserCamp. You input a website URL and it will provide a
> > Safari screenshots generator for free.
>
> >http://www.browsrcamp.com/
>
> > I've tested both my versions and the presentation version does not
> > display correctly.
>
> > Also tried Saq's :http://tiddlysnip.com/This too only shows the side
> > menu's and not the main content
>
> --
> TiddlyThemes.com (http://tiddlythemes.com) : a gallery of TiddlyWiki
> themes.
> TiddlySnip (http://tiddlysnip.com) : a firefox extension that turns
> TiddlyWiki into a scrapbook!
> LewcidTW (http://tw.lewcid.org) : a repository of extensions for
> TiddlyWiki
Publisher is ok, but sometimes that implies RSS (eg the
contentPublisher tag). It's hard to think of an alternative though..
maybe HideAuthoring?
>
> Also, what do you guys think of the idea of packaging in the the templates
> as shadow tiddlers so it can be as easy to install as just copying the one
> plugin tiddler?
>
> Obviously the templates I include might not be to everyone's liking, but in
> that case they can just tweak them.
Yes, great idea. And it will stop people from thinking the plugin's
doing nothing, coz they don't have the right templates.
>
> So this means I need names for the "viewing" or "public" stylesheet and
> pagetemplate, ie the ones with editing disabled. Any suggestions?
> PublicStyleSheet and PublicPageTemplate perhaps?
Yep sounds good.
>
> Oh, and if you have any other suggestions/ideas, nows the time.
> I want to get this finalized so I can go ahead and release the 'presentation
> style' themes ive been working on!
How about including a little link to author mode in the default public
template? that would save everyone some hassle trying to get
#author:true to work.
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
> PS:
> should I continue to distribute two versions of the empty file? One with
> just whats needed to disable editing, and the other with the extras like
> SinglePageMode, NavigationPlugin etc?
I definitely think there should be a "clean" PresentationPlugin-only
version. Whether or not someone uses SPM as well as PP is a whole
'nother decision.
Cheers
;Daniel
Not to belittle the great uses for Saq's PresentationPlugin /
PublisherPlugin (I enjoyed the Tears of the Sun site, for example),
but in addition to being single-page rather than micro-content
oriented; it's also *linear* (?! OK, you can skip around within "the"
order, but...), so it sets aside yet another core feature that makes
TiddlyWiki *my* tool of choice. So, if anyone's looking for
encouragement to make a tweak that allows tiddlyspot sites like mine
(and most others) to continue to function and look exactly as they do,
MINUS the author-oriented backstage stuff for all but author access
(analogous to the current exploitable difference between http: and
file: access), consider yourself encouraged! : ))
Simon,
Not to belittle the great uses for Saq's PresentationPlugin /
PublisherPlugin (I enjoyed the Tears of the Sun site, for example),
but in addition to being single-page rather than micro-content
oriented; it's also *linear* (?! OK, you can skip around within "the"
order, but...), so it sets aside yet another core feature that makes
TiddlyWiki *my* tool of choice. So, if anyone's looking for
encouragement to make a tweak that allows tiddlyspot sites like mine
(and most others) to continue to function and look exactly as they do,
MINUS the author-oriented backstage stuff for all but author access
(analogous to the current exploitable difference between http: and
file: access), consider yourself encouraged! : ))
> Oh, and if you have any other suggestions/ideas, nows the time.
> I want to get this finalized so I can go ahead and release the 'presentation
> style' themes ive been working on!
How about including a little link to author mode in the default public
template? that would save everyone some hassle trying to get
#author:true to work.
but in addition to being single-page rather than micro-content
oriented; it's also *linear* (?! OK, you can skip around within "the"
order, but...), so it sets aside yet another core feature that makes
TiddlyWiki *my* tool of choice. So, if anyone's looking for
encouragement to make a tweak that allows tiddlyspot sites like mine
(and most others) to continue to function and look exactly as they do,
MINUS the author-oriented backstage stuff for all but author access
(analogous to the current exploitable difference between http: and
file: access), consider yourself encouraged! : ))
http://browsershots.org was mentioned before - I haven't tried it myself
yet though.
HTH.
-- F.
;D
> Oh, and if you have any other suggestions/ideas, nows the time.
> I want to get this finalized so I can go ahead and release the 'presentation
> style' themes ive been working on!
How about including a little link to author mode in the default public
template? that would save everyone some hassle trying to get
#author:true to work.
Either would be ok -- I hadn't thought about a button but that would
probably be best.
Are you gonna tell me that it has that already..?
;D
I can't agree more than to say that presentation plugin is the next
killer plugin for TW, I don't know of any other tools to build so
quickly a web site, given you have a template TW + presentation plugin
+ singlepage plugin to use. I took me a while to install, I didn't
really understand how it worked to be honest, but now that I see it
running, I'm really pleased of the result (I will share it soon). It
could truly be a big asset to TW in future version, if it was included
as a base feature of TW. Great work from Saq ..
That's just my thoughts and thanks ..
On Feb 10, 10:35 am, "Daniel Baird" <danielba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/02/07, Saq Imtiaz <lew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > How about including a little link to author mode in the default public
> > > template? that would save everyone some hassle trying to get
> > > #author:true to work.
>
> > Daniel, did you mean a button to switch to author mode, or a link to click,
> > with the link having #author:true added to the url?
>
> Either would be ok -- I hadn't thought about a button but that would
> probably be best.
>
> Are you gonna tell me that it has that already..?
>
> ;D
>
> --
> Daniel Bairdhttp://tiddlyspot.com(free, effortless TiddlyWiki hosting)http://danielbaird.com(TiddlyW;nks! :: Whiteboard Koala :: Blog ::
> Things That Suck)
On 10/02/07, Saq Imtiaz <lew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > How about including a little link to author mode in the default public
> > template? that would save everyone some hassle trying to get
> > #author:true to work.
>
> Daniel, did you mean a button to switch to author mode, or a link to click,
> with the link having #author:true added to the url?
>
Either would be ok -- I hadn't thought about a button but that would
probably be best.
Are you gonna tell me that it has that already..?
That works fine now without SingleModePlugin.
Had to reinstate part of the tiddler toolbar so that at least tiddlers
could now be closed other wise it could make the page too big.
Here is the safari compatible version:
http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/beta/beta_mac.html