Optibike 800 li report

[cakey]

Over the next few months I will add my thoughts and ideas to my 1st
few months with the Optibike .
This weekend I took the bike upto Glentress in Scotland which at any
time the black trail is an outstanding shake down for any bike and
will quickly reveal its weaknesses.
I took with me a spare pair of Fox talas 36 rc2 forks which was my
idea of where the weakness maybe.
The standard components on the 800li are very good Fox 32`s talas, Fox
rear shock, Thomson stem , seat post , Cane creek 110 headset , Avid
carbon juicy brakes . Sram x9 rear mech , mavic cross wheels. Pedals
are a personal thing , I have 8 sets from egg beaters, DMR , easton
Cully, or XTR clipins.
If your type of ride is road, SOME single track and where ever the
route takes you . You will not need another bike or have to change
anything . Running Continental gravity or Schwalbe nobby nicks this
thing flies. It feels very centred in that the weight is where it
should be , leaning into corners is a bit scary, as you feel as if it
is on rails. Bit of advice
( full face helmet is required) wear one on single track, your courage
and confidence will be tested, mine was. You need to ensure you set
the forks and the rear shock to the right pressure 5min job.
To give you some idea how quick this thing goes my normal stock time
for the run is 2hour 10mins approx as the standard 800li it took me
1hour 30 mins . I think the width of my grin may have slowed me
down :) I really needed an overtaking lane ( i might just put a
request in) The same ride takes some riders 3 -4 hours...
The MBB is a little strange to get used to as it appears at times to
step down on the really steep bits . Could be the inbuilt overheat
protection and my use of gears my be the reason . I assume someone can
comment on this ..
I will post later on the couple of changes I have made to improve the
bike for my type of riding.
Overall my 1st impressions are you will not need another bike .
Expensive yes worth it yes
Sell the wife/ girlfriend....

[lowco2]

Cakey,
Awesome report. Yes, that machine is amazing, one more example in
your report.
Your advice to get the suspension set for yourself is absolutely
correct, there's nothing like having it right no matter if you are
riding the rough roads like mine or the single track like you,
What you describe as the motor "step down" may actually be the dpc
doing it's thing. I don't have the off-road experience that Jamie does
and he might be better able to explain this to you.
Oh, and the full face helmet is a great idea. I got one at Keith's
recommendation and really like it. Plus as its gotten cold here, that
helmet is much warmer.
Cheers,
--John

[Tor Atle Lunde]

What kind of helmet are we talking about here? A lightweight BMX type?

Tor Atle

[lowco2]

Yes, or a downhiller's helmet. Mine's something like this:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE302G03-Giro+Remedy+Cf+Helmet+08.aspx
--John

[cakey]

I use a met parachute as the teeth/chin guard can be removed for on
road . I also have a troy helmet but look a bit of a tosser in it.
Trying to look too cool .
On Nov 24, 3:57 pm, lowco2 <jcsageb...@mac.com> wrote:
> Yes, or a downhiller's helmet. Mine's something like this:http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HE302G03-Giro+Remedy+Cf+Helmet...

>  --John
>
> On Nov 24, 6:42 am, "Tor Atle Lunde" <toratle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > What kind of helmet are we talking about here? A lightweight BMX type?
>

> > Tor Atle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[cakey]

like this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17687

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[cakey]

The 1st thing I changed was the seatpost. Now most of you who ride off
road will understand the problems of getting up with the seat low and
dropping down on the scoot down. On a pleasure ride the thomson seat
post is fantastic and I will tend to use it most of the time . On fast
laps and tricky up and down single track , its a pain to lower and
raise the seat . Hence why I use a Crank brothers joplin adjustable
speedball seat. Used to be made by Maverick bikes , must have paid
some coin for the rights. Just pull the lever and it raises or drops
to required height .No stopping on the downhill bits to hunker down on
the bike. Pull the lever to pop it back up ...
Not for everyone but I love them.....

On Nov 24, 4:05 pm, cakey <mikesyxthse...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> like thishttp://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17687
> and fall

[lowco2]

Yes that a nice looking one.

On Nov 24, 8:05 am, cakey <mikesyxthse...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> like thishttp://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17687

[ElectricDirt]

Right on Cakey. I like your first review, but I bet you will drop
another 10 maybe 20 mins off your first time. But what a ride, you can
see how the bike changes the trail. I REALLY recommend putting a
smaller front chain ring on it. The 48 is way to big for steep
efficient climbing, plus something like a 42 ups the torque and
efficiency of the bike about 20% when riding it on single track. It
puts the whole 9 speed cluster in a way more usable position compared
to single track speed. Plus the step down effect is less because the
torque is boosted and for me I very rarely am looking for more speed
at the end of the gear range. I am so very happy to know that the
Joplin fits the new frames because at the time no one made one that
fit the older frames and I am sick of stopping and adjusting seat
height, thank you Optibike. Did you run the remote or use the under
seat adjuster? Oh yea put that 36 on their, I am sure you already did,
and a real front tire, and this is not for you because I know you
already know this, but for everyone LEAN THE BIKE and LET IT CARVE.
Put all weight on the feet, lean the bike, and it will drift
perfectly. If the bike is turned all bikes will plow. But with that
power it is VERY important to push the inside hand down or get ready
the kiss the earth. Anyway I really like the last line of your review.
Dam I wish you lived close, the videos we could make, to have somebody
to ride at speed with. You will see the true potential of the bike
have fun and be careful, sort of. Jamie

[cakey]

Ordered a 42 ring your right Jamie no need for extra speed on the end
gears . Fitted my Fox talas 36 RC2 and what a difference, it glides
like a magic carpet. The rebound on them is perfect for this setup.
Still not sure about the rear shock need to try a few settings.
Fitted my new boots Maxxis minions 2.5, might try a 2.7 on the front.
At the same time swapped the the wheels for my deemax with Chris King
hubs in Gold . Sounded like a swarm of hornets behind me , the speed
was scary fast , but it was so planted. In the corners it just drifted
beautifully. One section where my intense skips out, this baby just
tore it up, begging me to push harder .
My next problem was stopping it. Ever been there, where you know whats
coming and think I ain`t going to make this. well that happened, the
disks were that hot they were screaming for mercy. Must put bigger
rotors and pots on.
Cannot keep off it at the moment, night rides after work.
Wonder what the OB10 will be like ?

[ElectricDirt]

I always had a 36 VAN on the front, I have a thing for coils, so I did
not experience the fork change but I feel that magic carpet ride too.
I can hear that Chris King from here!!! I use Maxxis minion 2.7 on
the front, very sandy here, plus that extra size gives confidence. I
use all kinds of tires in back, they just get eaten by the bikes speed
and torque. 203s are a must on the brakes, boiled your fluid for sure,
the bike just makes too much speed again and again for anything less.
I think you agree the bike can go faster on a single track than
anything else because of that balanced weight placement= RIP IT UP. I
always said that the weight of the bike just makes it faster. I really
want you to try the TAG wheels. I swear they make a perfect match of
centrifugal force for the bikes weight, plus they are the only wheels
up to the bikes performance capability and you will push even harder
when you know the wheels will never give up on you, unbreakable. I
have tried different set ups on the rear shock but in the end I got
use to it being a firm platform that rails. The 42 is way better, tell
me what you think when you get it on and remount the guide. It is so
great to have a true RIPPIN friend on the bike, just keep the rubber
side down. Jamie

[cakey]

Hi Jamie
I am going to order a set of the TAG tr3 the new 3 spoke
ones ? any views on them or the 5 spokers.
The 42 arrives today .
The weight of the bike makes it handle like a motor trails bike
carving wonderfully into the corners .
Last night we did a really tough night trail . I got cold waiting for
my mates at the end . One of the climbs was the 1st time I had ever
ridden it all the way up. Extra Cake for me :)
The 2 lupine Bettys I use are a must the speed is even more thrilling
at night .

[ElectricDirt]

I would get the 5 spokers, mostly because the 3s do not have the super
tough rim and I think are more for xcountry. Just looked at their
site, you are going to kill those 3s. Really I would get the 5s
because you just started riding your Opti and you will only ride it
faster and faster. Wait till you are accustom to Opti speed in fact
you think it is NORMAL, that is when you start pushing into a new kind
of ripping. I know a trail can only be ridden so fast but you will
find yourself doing things that are not thought of on a peddle bike.
Just think KEEP THE MOMENTUM and the little that the 5s weigh more
than the 3s will disappear under you. Experiencing for yourself is
beautiful, but have I been wrong yet. We should pull this disscusion
in to the Opti forum. Jamie

[Bob]

Hey guys,

Tag Wheels!! If you are serious about using the bike off road, use
a standard wheel set using good quality spkes, hubs and rims. Reasons
for not using them are as follows as far as my experience with the
wheels goes:
They are heavier than traditional wheels which means you loose a lot
of turning accuracy and control. The bike feels very "groggy" when
turning into a corner and if you are riding accross uneven terrain,
they tend to lead you in the direction they want to go in. The reason
for this is that they are much more flexible than traditional wheels.
this is great for having a nice smooth ride, but naff if you actually
want to ride hard. because the wheels are actually heavier than
traditional wheels it means you loose performance both under
acceleration and braking alike. It also slows the response of the
suspension too as you are making more unsprung wieght! I had an Opti
bike set up brand new with the 5spokes and wasn't thrilled about it.
They look great don't get me wrong, but personally that's all they
offer. I can't begin to imagine how they would ride if used on a non
powered bike, but all I can see is that it would be a hinderance! Also
on the pair that I road, the finish was terrible. Both wheels were so
out of shape I thought they were eggs, and riding along on a smooth
stretch of raod was bumpier than taking them across a gravel track.
Again after riding the bike with the tags on we swapped them for the
Mavic wheel set under my reccomendation and the perfarmance was
noticably increased much to the owners surprise, disbelief and
happiness!!

I'm sure than not all of these wheels are finished as badly as the
ones I used, but I would deffinatley say get a test ride before you
part with any cash (compare performance between normal wheels and tags
ON THE SAME BIKE so you have a direct comparison). Also as a last
thought, I don't know how likely it is for these wheels to shatter and
or brake in general, but if they brake I'm know it'll be a lot more
catastrofic than braking a spoke, and much more permanent. Another
though that just cropped up, WARRANTY! Are the wheels coverd for e-
bike use??

http://www.tagwheels.com/warranty.aspx

Sorry to be so negative about them, but after using them it left a
very sour taste in my mouth considering how much you have to pay for
them!!

[cakey]

Thanks for all your comments on the Tags. My problem is, I have busted
every single spoke wheel I have rode . Might just try a set on the
promise from TAG if they are not true they go back. They will be
FRX5.

[lowco2]

That warranty is pretty clear. There are exclusions and ebikes are not
among them.

I'm seriously consdiering some 3-spokes for my commuting, but would do
the 5's if I rode off-road.
--John

[ElectricDirt]

Be serious about breaking them. If they break then you probably died
during the incident. I can destroy a professionally hand built spoked
wheel of any make, spoke, whatever in 1 hr of up and down stair riding
and my TAG wheels have never let me down. I have ridden down 2 miles
of river bed in Greagle Ca on my Opti at 20+ mph plus numerous oh fuck
rocky trails there, double flated thick downhill tubes at 35 psi,
ridden home on rear flats with 5 miles of rocks and nothing has
damaged them. For any one who will ride there Opti off road to its
true capacity and you will never experience the true capacity with out
them, the TAGs are the only answer. Sorry to here about out of round
unit but mine are perfect. I am not sponsered by anyone but my 28 yrs
of mountain biking experience. Not to be rude but if they feel more
flexable lateraly than spoke wheels, they are barely, but to be honest
you are not riding correctly if you feel that, follow the carve energy
line, try not to turn, have fun. I also know of people doing Whistler
flating at the top and still doing all the 20+ ft drops all of them
all the way down, no damage. Regular wheel trash can, TAG wheel new
tube and ride.

[Bob]

That sounds fare enough guys! Just stating the FACTS as I know them
so far!

Again this is only my PERSONAL opinion and experience of what I've
had the chance to work with. I was stating the effects the wheels have
on the bike. However, I'm a true supporter of a proper spoked wheel,
and use them on my trials bike where i give them an absulute beating
every time I go out on my bike. Just to let you know how good a proper
build can be, I use 36 hole rims and hubs, and DT-Swiss DB spokes. On
my rear wheel which takes all the flack I can put it through, there
are only 12 spoke that actually cross each other, all the rest are
radial, and it has not needed to be trued in the 6 mounths that Ive
used it in! It's been used for 12ft straight drop offs, gap juumps to
hand rails, drop offs to hand rails, just stacking and falling off in
rediculous places and all it wants is more abuse!!

http://www.dsbiketrials.co.uk/gallary.html This is how I roll!! I
can ride a bike!! (pics are a few years old now though! Moved on to
bigger and better stuff!!)

I build a lot of wheels, mainly for e-bikers at the moment, but have
built wheels that have been taken to places of extreme off-raoding and
they have been the only parts of a bike that survived from a 100ft
drop off the side of a mountain!!! I've seen people's "profesionally
hand built" wheels that were absolute crap, and would of lasted better
if it were a machine built wheel!! To put it in perspective from my
eyes; of all the wheels I've EVER built (going on for 8 years, and
many hundreds!!), I only know of one person who snapped a spoke, and
that was someone who I recomended SHOULDN'T have the wheel built in
the first place and decided to ignor my advice, and one person who
destroyed a wheel by landing 5ft short of a 30ft gap jump but was
still able to ride the bike after the crash. He did more damage to
himself than my wheels! I also put it to you, that if you can indeed
"destroy" a pro wheel build (no matter how well built), then YOU don't
know how to ride a bike or don't care enough to look after it!!! And
you SHOULD be able to feel what's going on with your equipment and be
able to feel the difference at all times otherwise your repair bills
must be huge!!! Look, sorry to be rude, but I've seen it all as far as
how and why things brake on bikes, and when you amplify the speed,
wieght of bike, terrain you wouldn't normally be riding on, and the
frequency you do it all at and the SKILL of the rider (or lack there
of), there are a lot more imaginative ways of things letting go when
you least expect it. This happens even faster if the rider doesn't or
can't feel whats going on, or is fighting, with the equipment. Most
brakeages happen through people's (for lack of a better word),
ignorance.

Maybe these TAGs use a much better quality composite than I gave them
credit for, but I have seen what happens to composite wheels when they
do go, and the thought of someone hurtling down a mountain and having
it happen to them is just a bit scarey for me!! I look forward to the
updates about the wheels as I'm open to new suggestions about new
technologies when it comes to stuff like this so I can offer the right
advice to people who ask, but hey the door swings both ways. Please be
aware that I'm not trying to sell you anything and not trying to ruin
a products reputation if that's how it seems, but just trying to put
across the pros and cons of any given system against it's intended
useage. Likewise I wouldn't for a second even entertain the idea of
using one of my wheels with only 12 crossing spokes for Opti's, as
again, it doesn't offer the right performance for that application.
Although, if anyone would like to take the challenge of braking one of
my wheel sets to compare against the TAGs, bring it on I'm game!! :-)

PS. Please don't ride on tyres with no air in them, it WILL screw your
rims/wheels and tyres. School boy error!!! As is getting the flat in
the first place if it was a pinch flat?? Must look where you are going
and avoid the sharp bits. This would be classed as missuse and or
negligence AND deffinately abuse! Here is the quote from the TAG
warranty!

"This warranty DOES NOT cover the normal wear and wearing of parts and
does not apply to damage due directly or indirectly to misuse, abuse,
negligence, improper assembly or assembly with incompatible products,
accidents, crashes, repairs, alterations or modifications outside our
facilities, a lack of maintenance, and or delivery and transport
damage."


Sorry so long again, but VERY passionate about biking and I know
wheels inside and out!!

:-)

[Jerome Daoust]

Jamie, Bob,

You are opening up a worthy debate on wheel choice.
I collected the relevant postings into this dedicated discussion:

Rims: Mavic Crosstrail or TAG FRX5 ?
http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group/browse_thread/thread/baa802c73ed01e54

[Bob]

Hi Jerome,

Glad to be offering something to have a gander at! Saw the thread
earlier!
Basically the origanal question was about which wheels to use, and
obviously the guys at Opti. reccomend the TAGs both aftermarket and on
the OE products they supply with the bikes. Nothing wrong with that at
all, but people were asking what the BEST wheels were to use!!
My simple answere is that the tags aren't that good purley because
they weigh nearly 2kg each!! Basic wheel theology is that to get the
best out of whatever it is you ride, you need light wheels so you can
get the best performance both in acceleration and braking, and being
able to turn quicker and get more controlable cornering. I mean
Motorbike companies must spend thousand if not millions on developing
the lightest AND stiffest wheels they can so on thier race bikes so
they get the edge even with the same HP. It makes a huge difference.
It's the difference between first and second and they will do anything
to make it better!

Now bareing in mind these Tags weight twice as much as the crossmax
wheels they also supply, it will affect the performance even more. Now
at the same time I have made practical comparisons between both
wheelsets on Richard Papa's bike. When he got his, the Tags were
nowhere near round or straite causing uncontrollable wobbles and
vibrations and the cornering was terrible! Under my reccomendation, I
suggested swapping for the Mavics and he was blown away by the
difference it made! Better acceleration and braking not to mension
that you could stear the thing on a penny!!
The second thing about having a lighter wheel is unsprung weight when
it comes to suspension. The lighter a wheel, the quicker the
suspension can react giving better traction and stability on the road
or off depending on your prefferences and save ware and tare on any
number of other connected components.

Just to put the weight issue in the extreme, the lightest weight front
wheel I'v ever made weighed in at just over 3/4 lb for a non disc
wheel (V-brake specific) and is still riding today after 5/6 years of
use!!! You can get very reliable spoked wheels that last a lifetime
of abuse.
On the flex front, if you start using a tyre that's too fat for the
frame and have flexible wheels, you are going to start braking frames
as the tyre will take away the metal before it even hints at waring
it'self down!! Beleive me it happens and my friend dissagreed and
snapped a £500 trials frame to his surprise. PLus flex will steer you
where it wants to go rather than where you WANT to go!! Its all about
control and response!

I could talk about wheels, and all the different variables all day.
Bottom line, the tags WILL work fine, but if you want the best from
your machine I know you can do better!!

Have a good weekend guys!