RedDot gripes

[a123...@googlemail.com]

All,

I've been using RedDot for slightly more than a year now, and I've
taken as much as I can. I finally have to get the HUGE amount of
problems, bugs, and general complaints about this terrible piece of
software off my chest. Building a decent CMS is hard, of course, but
if you can't do it right, certainly don't charge huge amounts of money
for it.

My opinionated ramblings are here:

http://reddotgripes.blogspot.com/

All comments welcome.

[Wayne Bouwmeester]

Hi a1234587, if that is indeed your real name :)
I've been using RedDot now, as an implementer, for slightly more than
6 years and I whole heatedly disagree with your post.

RedDot is not a terrible piece of software, and it doesn't have a HUGE
amount of problems, although I guess that's a relative term, and
really depends on how things have been setup for you.
There are several very large websites powered by RedDot, and they seem
to be up and running.
It has it's quirks, same as any other software, but if it were a bunch
of crap (my words, not yours), it would have tanked years ago because
people wouldn't by it.
In the end, the benefits far outweigh the glitches. If you think the
amount of $ a client pays for the software, think about how much the
executives at Hummingbird, and later OpenText paid to acquire it.
People are always going to complain about it, because people like to
complain - I like to complain.
The complaints only gain credibility when a better option can be
shown, for the same price.

Sounds like you just had a bad day - or maybe a bad year - I've had
some "I hate RedDot" days but in the end, I love working with the
product.
Kinda like my love/hate relationship with the stuff Microsoft puts
out, but it's kept me employed for 12 years.

I notice this is your only post to the group - maybe we can help you
with your frustrations - if you post them here.
In any event, hope your RedDot problems improve!
Wayne.

On Nov 17, 9:51 am, "a1234...@googlemail.com"

[Wayne Bouwmeester]

hmmm... and when I said "whole heatedly" I really meant
"wholeheartedly"
Good think I'm not an English major.



On Nov 17, 12:44 pm, Wayne Bouwmeester <wayne.bouwmees...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[a123...@googlemail.com]

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for your considered response. As you cleverly guessed
"a1234587" is NOT actually my real name :-) I'm concerned that
negative comments may damage the relationship between the company I
work for and the RedDot suppliers, so I'm erring on the side of
caution.

I AM using emotive language and, yes, you guessed again: I've had a
bad year with RedDot. Full disclosure time: this is the longest I've
spent using a CMS product, and I'm sure they all have their flaws, and
there may not be a more suitable product out there; if that were true,
however, my levels of despair would only increase. One possibility I'm
exploring is that any product that tries to do as much as RedDot will
be flawed - maybe a single product trying to offer all that
functionality is simply problematic from the get-go. Especially when
all that functionality is not necessarily required; very large
websites may well be a more appropriate market than small-to-medium.

On Nov 17, 7:44 pm, Wayne Bouwmeester <wayne.bouwmees...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Henry Lu, Sun Certified Java Programmer]

This is really a subject of contention and I want to venture some observation.

People who either say they love RedDot CMS or hate RedDot CMS after just ONE year of dealing with it, normally err on the side of "speaking too soon." There is plenty of reason to hate RedDot and to love it; it all depends on what the project you are working forces you to expect from this CMS. And you may switch sides too due to circumstances.

But my advice is to not jump on any early conclusion.

The other observation is that "single trackers" normally dislike RedDot -- people who have single-track Java background, or C# or PHP etc. On the flip side, "jacks of all trades" normally love RedDot. In other words, people who love to "hack around" find out the inards of a piece of software normally gravitate toward RedDot.

I myself really enjoy building a RedDot project, particularly when I have some say in its architecture. There are quite a few really good foundamental concepts that I have not found in other CMS systems. And most importantly, RedDot is a really "open" playground. All you need to do is decoupling the data layer and the presentation layer of your project and BANG! You open a door to a new world with limitless possibility.

I've used RedDot to build data capturing UIs that most non-coders like and on the data consumption side, transfroming the data into anything you may need -- JSON, XML(to drive Flash) or componentized html blocks ...

Henry Lu

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Wayne Bouwmeester <wayne.bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

hmmm... and when I said "whole heatedly" I really meant
"wholeheartedly"
Good think I'm not an English major.



On Nov 17, 12:44 pm, Wayne Bouwmeester <wayne.bouwmees...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi a1234587, if that is indeed your real name :)
> I've been using RedDot now, as an implementer, for slightly more than
> 6 years and I whole heatedly disagree with your post.
>
> RedDot is not a terrible piece of software, and it doesn't have a HUGE
> amount of problems, although I guess that's a relative term, and
> really depends on how things have been setup for you.
> There are several very large websites powered by RedDot, and they seem
> to be up and running.

> It has it's quirks, same as any other software, but if it were a bunchl

[SRWebMedia]

Hello al234587,

I've been using RedDot CMS since version 4.5 which is about over 8 years now. As a consultant, I've worked also with 2 other major CMS, Microsoft and Documentum. So all CMS have good points and bad points.

And, yes I've been through some tough and rough time over the years with RedDot CMS but there was always somebody on the support side to help me out through some of the situations.

I worked on 3 majors RedDot CMS implementation and all is well. The biggest, which they hired as a permanent employees, has over 200 sites and 400 users.

What I learned is this; use it for what is suppose to do and if does not speak with the RedDot development to see if there are any possibilities to add the functionality that you need.

Hope you'll be able to solve your bugs. Don't forget there are plenty of knowledgeable people in this forum that can help you!

Stephane Ritchot

------Original Message------
From: a123...@googlemail.com
Sender: RedDot-C...@googlegroups.com
To: RedDot CMS Users
ReplyTo: RedDot-C...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Nov 17, 2008 11:51 AM
Subject: RedDot gripes


All,

I've been using RedDot for slightly more than a year now, and I've
taken as much as I can. I finally have to get the HUGE amount of
problems, bugs, and general complaints about this terrible piece of
software off my chest. Building a decent CMS is hard, of course, but
if you can't do it right, certainly don't charge huge amounts of money
for it.

My opinionated ramblings are here:

http://reddotgripes.blogspot.com/

All comments welcome.

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

[a123...@googlemail.com]

Henry,

It's interesting that you say that people expressing a strong opinion
regards RedDot after just a year are speaking too soon. I would have
thought that a year spent evaluating a piece of software would be
enough to give one at least a reasonable opinion of its strengths and
weaknesses.

Your point about specialisation is a particularly relevant one: I am
exactly one of those "jack of all trades" developers of which you
speak. I've been a software engineer for 10 years and have worked with
c, c++, java, python, php, and perl. I've worked on both UNIX and
Windows and in technologies ranging from server maintenance, database
design, and front-end web client programming. I'm not saying this to
show off - I certainly am not a 'master' and sometimes wish I were -
but it's strange that this is so contrary to your experience.

My very opinions of RedDot are heavily based on sound engineering
principles: data-driven programming, the advantages of transparency,
reducing complexity, DRY, etc. I hope that will become more obvious
once I've written more than one blog post :-)

On Nov 17, 8:12 pm, "Henry Lu, Sun Certified Java Programmer"

[Tiffany]

I get very frustrated with RedDot because of the poor documentation.
That said, as I am learning I realize that what I thought was
"difficult" is actually RedDots way of allowing the developer more
freedom. And I am starting to appreciate the open work environment.
I struggle a lot, as I am a novice, but I do love the power of RedDot,
and I am the cheerleader here for pushing the capabilities further and
further.
I just wish they had better training materials. The navigation manager
was a beast for me to grasp. Now I get it! Well, mostly :)



On Nov 17, 3:06 pm, "a1234...@googlemail.com"

[El Pollo Loco]

Sounds like you just dont like the RedDot Text Editor......(who
does...:). What are your other gripes?

From what I hear there is a world class editor integrated with reddot
very soon.....(starts with a T and ends with an elerik)

[java...@gmail.com]

Mea Culpa then.

Of course it was just my observation and certainly I did not mean to
categorize you as a single tracker. I made the obervation because I've
come across with people who were really "disgusted" with RedDot and
when I look at their qualification and background, they all seem to be
in love with one specific platform or programming language and
normally resent the fact that RedDot does not offer a clear, ready and
out-of-the-box solutions for their problems.

So in that sense, you are definitely an exception and I am really
looking forward to reading your blogs to find out the RedDot features
(or the lack of them) that disappointed you.

Henry Lu

On Nov 17, 3:22 pm, "a1234...@googlemail.com"

[Frederic Hemberger]

Hey everybody,

for gripe #1: The upcoming RedDot release in May 2009 will contain a
complete new text editor (with beautiful, valid output) as well as a
brand new SmartEdit, which should also work flawlessly in Firefox,
Opera & Co. I already had the chance to see a beta release at the
RedDotDays last month and it looked very promising.

I know, RedDot overslept some new trends and technologies, but they're
working hard to catch up at the moment, so give them some time.


@Tiffany: I think lots of documentation and special hints still only
exist in German (as RedDot is a German company), even if stuff is
translated as fast as possible. We are trying to change that as well
with our blog (www.reddotcmsblog.com). If you have a topic which would
fit nicely into an article, don't hesitate to drop me a mail (hey,
same applies to you guys! But ladies first *g*).

[BrockSky]

I am pretty certain the majority of my gripes with RedDot will be
sorted out once the long awaited Dreamweaver integration actually
happens. I am primarily a template and css guy so I am desperate for a
good text editor. And when I say desperate I mean it.

-- B

On Nov 17, 2:22 pm, Frederic Hemberger

[a123...@googlemail.com]

Very welcome feedback from you all; some brief responses to it:

Tiffany: the online help is pretty frustrating; the training manual is
more useful, but a comprehensive reference is sorely needed.

El Pollo Loco: there are plenty of other gripes coming, including a
few more about the text editor! :-) Looks like those MAY be fixed in a
future version, but that doesn't help me right now. I assume upgrading
incurs further costs.

Javahand: I will admit to a preference for UNIX-based technologies,
and an ignorance of the .net world, but I do try to remain open-
minded.

Frederic: thanks for the info. - I look forward to your feedback on
future gripes :-)

On Nov 17, 9:22 pm, Frederic Hemberger

[a123...@googlemail.com]

I am TOTALLY with you there (actually, I tend to go 'lower level' than
DreamWeaver, preferring a good text editor), but let's see how the
other gripes can be answered!

[Adam Boyle]

I've worked as a RedDot developer for the past seven years.  Have I ever been frustrated at times with RedDot?  Sure, you bet I have - at times.  I've been frustrated at times with Windows, Mac, Dreamweaver, Photoshop and every software and computer language I've ever learned too.  Nothing in life is perfect, not content management systems, not operating systems - perfection is a goal not a reality.  It's how you make the best of what you have that counts.  

 

If you're that unhappy with the output of the html you could override the default RedDot text editor settings on an element level or skip the default editor altogether and use ePhox or FCK or some other editor instead.  You could probably go further and create plugins for those editors too and edit them to your specifications.  You could reformat your templates and really dumb them down with a bunch of standard fields and skip the text editor altogether. Maybe this involves some sort of basic training for the editors using your project?  I'm just saying, there are options.    

 

When get frustrated I make sure to get some exercise and the frustration always disappears. I can tell you that works for sure every time. Eating healthy and getting a full night's sleep every night is really important too.  Also, the RedDot customer support team is top notch.  They've always helped my situation. Contacting my local sales rep has been helpful in the past too.  I've never considered creating an anonymous complaint blog and then advertising that blog anonymously on a mailing list because it seems unlikely to change anything.  I'd suggest talking with people who can help solve your problems if they're causing you this much frustration. No offense, but creating an anonymous complaint blog seems like a kinda wierd way to deal with the situation to me.  But hey, to each his own.  Peace. 

 

Adam Boyle

[Ray]

I can relate to how you feel, and I've been working with RedDot for
almost 2 years. I'm still a ways from understanding it thoroughly - and
doubt I ever will. That's partially due to the environment that I have
to work in, and the way our primary project was initially developed.

Every now and then, I'm impressed at how well RedDot does a number of
things. RedDot support has been very good - although a couple times I
have been led down the wrong path in following recommendations.

Other times I get frustrated at the hoops that RedDot seems to force me
to jump through to get things done.

I don't think that the product is necessarily overpriced - but I think
that their user licenses - SmartEdit, and especially the SmartTree
license pricing, is a bit on the ridiculous side. I also think that the
performance is pretty poor.

Definitely agree about the documentation for the product - it
could/should be much better. Workflow has been (and still is) a
challenge. I could go on - about things that I like as well as dislike
with RedDot - but I think that the best approach is a more proactive one
- through a forum such as this. I wish that the RedDot Community site
had a better knowledge base. They should have someone go through their
support tickets and put some KB items together. I bet there are some
nice solutions in there to all sorts of issues that perhaps not everyone
runs into... but would be nice nonetheless.

[Frederic Hemberger]

On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt (Germany), Mr.
Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit to talk
about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems with their
knowlede bases. I say "bases" as he told us that some RedDot
departments in different countries set up their own knowledge base,
which is a problem for their own software consultants as well.
According to him, RedDot is already working to bring together all
pieces into a single source but he gave no estimations when this
process will be finished. I really hope to see it online when the new
release comes out in may.

On the other hand, the RedDot Usergroup (http://
www.reddotusergroup.org) wants to collect hints and solutions in their
own wiki. Unfortunately, everyone wants to have benefit for their own
business, but most customers/partners are not willing to share or even
talk at all. People are more open than a few years ago but we're far
away from a flow of information like in an open source community, for
example.

[theHam]

Hey a123...@googlemail.com,

I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter with a
love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I try to
make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate and i deep
down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the biggest
gripes i have with the product have been resolved progressively
through the years.

1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced by (imo)
a much flexible approach with navman
2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with the user
sync templates
3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the building out
of content

A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text editor
which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven text editor
(i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have had
success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it go.

As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and flawed.. a
good example of this is that reddot will do things significantly
better than other product and significantly worse than others. If
reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap that is
where people on this group and consultants can assist.

A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group would
appreciate if you could do:

1. If you can please update your blog post with a link to this
discussion. That way at least people who find blog post via google can
come to this post to read an open discussion and maybe even find some
solutions to the issues that you have experienced whilst working on
reddot.

2. Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative
experience? it sounds like your implementation partner is not
communicating or assisting as best as they can to help workaround
these issues. How about changing the blog to a weekly/fortnightly
reddot gripe challenge? Post your issues to your blog (if that is the
format you prefer) and cross reference it to the group. That way we
call all attempt to outdo each other in trying to find the most
efficient and/or creative solution possible. I think we'll all learn a
thing or two as we all try and outdo each other! Through that process
i hope you will get the assistance you require.

Best of luck with your reddot or all other cms experiences in the
future.

- Morgan


On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Frederic Hemberger

<frederic.hember...@reddotusergroup.de> wrote:
> On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt (Germany), Mr.
> Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit to talk
> about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems with their
> knowlede bases. I say "bases" as he told us that some RedDot
> departments in different countries set up their own knowledge base,
> which is a problem for their own software consultants as well.
> According to him, RedDot is already working to bring together all
> pieces into a single source but he gave no estimations when this
> process will be finished. I really hope to see it online when the new
> release comes out in may.
>

> On the other hand, the RedDot Usergroup (http://www.reddotusergroup.org) wants to collect hints and solutions in their

[RustyLogic]

Bit O.T. here but what do you mean by:

> 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with the user
> sync templates

User sync templates - have I missed something? What are they!

Ta,
John

On 18 Nov, 11:19, theHam <mergus_j_alf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey a1234...@googlemail.com,

[a123...@googlemail.com]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, "theham". I'll be dealing with a
lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime:

"all software is frustrating and flawed" - I think this is either not
the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally
make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating;
as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as "all
complex software is frustrating and flawed". I take the point, of
course, that RedDot is not the only culprit.

"If you can please update your blog post" - you beat me to it -
thanks :)

"Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative

experience?" - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling
pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a
positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are
pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor
creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple of
years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, this
DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics I'll be
discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some of you
(gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this category,
unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS model which
I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some
notice of these comments. I would also love it if an alternative CMS
(preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if there
really is a gap in the market.

On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam <mergus_j_alf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey a1234...@googlemail.com,
>

[theHam]

Hey a123...@googlemail.com,

1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts,
are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the
issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have
contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that
there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the
sounds of your comment "I cannot see how I could possibly get a

positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are

pretty fundamental" have you made a decision and will not be
interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone
be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate
people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war
(as these things types of threads tend to become)

2. "I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these
comments." RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next
version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the
text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe
around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability
fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address
your issues "right now" but based on my previous comment other gripes
like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been
progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope.

3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm
unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to
date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally
provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to
region)

4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible
could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If
people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link.

Cheers,

- Morgan

On Nov 19, 1:01 am, "a1234...@googlemail.com"

[sayno more]

1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do I do this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design.

2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website.

3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is.

4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks.

2008/11/18 theHam <mergus_...@hotmail.com>

[Adam Boyle]

I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question.

 

You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog?

 

What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve?

 

Adam

[a123...@googlemail.com]

I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues
relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying
to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs
and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion
- to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my
thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam.

On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, "Adam Boyle" <adamtbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question.
>
> You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with
> your blog?
>
> What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve?
>
> Adam
>

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more <a1234...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses
> > to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do I do
> > this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog
> > format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design.
>
> > 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be,
> > addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the
> > software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those
> > who are considering adopting RedDot for their website.
>
> > 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome
> > is.
>
> > 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks.
>

> > 2008/11/18 theHam <mergus_j_alf...@hotmail.com>
>
> >> Hey a1234...@googlemail.com,

[Adam Boyle]

Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who might be evaluating RedDot.

 

It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also mentioning some of the positive things that RedDot does too.

 

If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes?

 

Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that it will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using RedDot? 

 

Isn't that the real purpose of your blog?

[markus giesen]

I work with RedDot since 2001/2002. And it definetly was state of the
art at this time.
I can agree that there are a lot of open source CMS out there, like
TYPO3 which back in the days was not that good but since now made some
great efforts.
But still I'm ore than sure, that RedDot has it's place in the
enterprise cms world.
The bugs and how they manage them is definetly something to discuss,
but I think another blog which only figures out the negative sites or
maybe negative ones is the wrong platform.
Better publish some articles in a forum, I think even the google group
is not the final solution for reddot related information.


On 19 Nov., 20:29, "a1234...@googlemail.com" <a1234...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> ...
>
> Erfahren Sie mehr »

[markus giesen]

by the way: I like it that we discuss it here, that shows, that there
is a need for discussions :)

On 19 Nov., 20:29, "a1234...@googlemail.com" <a1234...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> ...
>
> Erfahren Sie mehr »

[a123...@googlemail.com]

I am blogging about some of the negative sides of RedDot to counter
balance the positives put forward by, among others, the RedDot sales
team themselves. I would not suggest anyone take either my or their
comments in isolation. I'm focussing on RedDot because that is the CMS
I've been forced to work with. I would be utterly astounded if an
existing RedDot customer read my blog and decided to stop using the
software purely based on its content. I merely wish to give all the
relevant information for potential customers, who have no opportunity
to trial the software themselves, and no other means of evaluating it.

On Nov 19, 8:38 pm, "Adam Boyle" <adamtbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who might
> be evaluating RedDot.
>
> It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also mentioning
> some of the positive things that RedDot does too.
>
> If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS
> should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes?
>
> Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that it
> will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using
> RedDot?
>
> Isn't that the real purpose of your blog?
>
> Adam
>

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, a1234...@googlemail.com <

> ...
>
> read more »

[Gavin Cope]

I've been reading this post with great interest. Not to discount anything you've said because they're all valid points but nothing you've said in your blog is a big secret. Any potential customer that talks to a reference site will more than likely find about the cons of RedDot. Indeed I know from experience that we have lost bids to other CMS products due to a customer's requirements around say usability. So the information is there for any company that does it's due diligence. On the flip side, other customers "love" the product and have been using it for years, it meets their needs and the misgivings of the product are either small enough not to worry about or there are sufficient work arounds.

So in a nutshell, I agree with what you're saying in your blog in principle. I would also encourage you to keep writing your blog because the more information gets out there, the more likely we'll reach a critical mass where a few interested people snowball into a caring, sharing developer community. I would however also encourage you to write some articles on what you LIKE about RedDot as well. So without sounding like a sales person, I think your blog would benefit from a balanced dicussion because at the end of the day, you're positive and negative opinions as a customer TO a potential customer mean more than any sales person's spiel.

Cheers,

Gavin

2008/11/20 a123...@googlemail.com <a123...@googlemail.com>

[Adam Boyle]

If you weren't opposed to writing positive articles about RedDot, your blog would probably be really great and I'd read it regularly.

If you used your real name, it would have a legitimacy to it that your anonymous blog can never have.  

 

Adam Boyle

[Smith Paul (SLH)]

Just to jump on the thought-train. While Reddot may have issues, so does every other CMS out there. We've used a number of the major players over the last few years and none are perfect, it just depends on what you are looking for in a system. What may be a major issue to one person isn't important to another.

I've seen comments about the bug/support system from Reddot. Believe me, there are far worse out there. One of the leading CMS vendors, who shall remain unnamed, couldn't even get their training course material to be bug free... you were unable to complete the course exercises as they were missing some of the necessary components on the installation CDs. You can only imagine what state their support system was like ;)

Question for Frederic... are there any plans for an English section to the user forums/wiki?

Paul

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[a123...@googlemail.com]

Never let it be said that I don't listen to constructive criticism.

Blog moved: http://reddotmusings.blogspot.com/
Blog renamed: RedDot CMS: gripes and goodies
Real name disclosed: Jonathan Frazier

(I'm hoping my name will appear correctly against these posts; I'm
still using the same 'anonymous' email address)

And, as of tomorrow, I shall be adding some 'goodies' to the blog.
Tomorrow's gripe has a closely-related goody, which I'm hoping will
help showcase some of the positives. I /have/ been struggling to come
up with some good features of RedDot that I really value, however;
perhaps some of the contributors here could help out. I'd love to
hear, for example, you top three favourite features of RedDot.

Regards,

- Jonathan

On 20 Nov, 15:04, "Smith Paul \(SLH\)" <Paul.Sm...@UCB-Group.com>
wrote:

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[Jonathan Frazier]

(OK, NOW my real name should be showing :-)

Hi Paul,

I'm not looking for perfection - as you suggest, it probably does not
- and cannot - exist. However, I am interested in why RedDot (and,
again, other CMS products) seem to fall so short (IMHO) of the quality
I have come to expect from web applications and other software.

Take something like trac, for example. Whilst it is an absolute pig to
install, in general, it is a very usable, high-quality product, with
an excellent accompanying community. It does its job very well indeed.

I reiterate: maybe a 'CMS' is just too big a product to ever really be
as clean, usable, and robust as other types of software.

- Jonathan

On 20 Nov, 15:04, "Smith Paul \(SLH\)" <Paul.Sm...@UCB-Group.com>
wrote:

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[Adam Boyle]

I'm totally excited about your blog Jonathan!   You rock dude. 

 

Best Regards,

Adam

 

PS: Seriously, you're the man.

[Tiffany]

Jonathan -
Here are two issues to add to your list:
nav list order opposite of dynamic list order:
http://groups.google.com/group/RedDot-CMS-Users/browse_thread/thread/5cab58a22016fdff
cannot specify the publishing target of specific page directory:
http://groups.google.com/group/RedDot-CMS-Users/browse_thread/thread/b038217a4563f845

I am still new to RedDot but these issues are crippling for projects
that I have spent weeks developing.

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[dino]

Hey, the blog link doesn't seem to work, how do I see your blog?


On Nov 19, 11:29 am, "a1234...@googlemail.com"

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[Jonathan Frazier]

Sorry: as mentioned in the thread, it was changed to:

http://reddotmusings.blogspot.com/

in order to convey a less-biased outlook.

~ Jonathan

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[dino]

Thanks, and thanks for the blog. There is nothing wrong with being
critical of reddot, in fact it's refreshing to hear that others are
having similar frustrations. Also, too many people are too willing to
accept bad and bloated software design, especially with large
enterprise apps. We should expect more. Sure you figure it out after a
year or two, but in my world, software that takes a year or two to
learn well enough to properly manage has some interface, engineering
and documentation problems, and ain't nothing wrong with talking about
them! It could be said it takes less time to learn html.

That said, I am also currently enjoying RedDot's many benefits,
features and flexibility, along with it's frustrations. I look forward
to reading your blog.

-Dino

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