Barracuda 7200.7 sata 160gb noise.
Jaime
nice and quiet, however its very noisy when seaking comapred with the cuda
4's I have which arnt exactly quiet either. Is there any way to make it seak
quiter, is this normal.
Thanks
Jaime
John Smith
the 160GB plus VIIs were noisey so I opted for a 120GB which, only been in
for a couple of hours, is wonderfully quiet. Touch wood.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Z_fNa.45439$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h3hNa.3437$nP....@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> I did some research online before buying and quite a few people were
saying
> the 160GB plus VIIs were noisey so I opted for a 120GB which, only been in
> for a couple of hours, is wonderfully quiet. Touch wood.
>
Dam, I presumed that they would make the same amount of noise, I should have
prehaps gone for the 120GB version.
Thanks for the reply though
Jaime
John Smith
out the info yesterday before ordering and one website review of the VII
series commented that Seagate had made it very difficult, re numerous
different model numbers, to actually get a handle on which drive was what,
has what cache, how many platters, what the performance is like, etc, etc.
Dependent how long ago you ordered/bought it you could send it back.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:rdhNa.45449$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
> out the info yesterday before ordering and one website review of the VII
> series commented that Seagate had made it very difficult, re numerous
> different model numbers, to actually get a handle on which drive was what,
> has what cache, how many platters, what the performance is like, etc, etc.
>
> Dependent how long ago you ordered/bought it you could send it back.
>
Yhe I know very confusing their current range, It is tempting to try and
send it back although that would be a lot of effort so I guess I'll hold
onto it.
Thanks
Jaime
John Smith
now on the vendor to prove it is not faulty plus, at last, they must also
pay for return shipping and cannot deduct it from your credit card. I would
say a noisey drive is potentially faulty.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ilhNa.45450$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> UK Law changed on March 31st and if you say something is faulty the onus
is
> now on the vendor to prove it is not faulty plus, at last, they must also
> pay for return shipping and cannot deduct it from your credit card. I
would
> say a noisey drive is potentially faulty.
>
Hm, well first I am in the UK and are aware of that. However is the drive
faulty, probably not so thats not going to get me anywhere. What about the
DSR saying I can return for a full refund, well I've used the product so
that doesnt apply either. I'll get in contact with Tekheads and ask them
about this.
Thanks again
Jaime
John Smith
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:crhNa.45451$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Don't you have to use a drive to discover it is faulty?
>
> J.
But its not faulty, its just not as I wanted. Or is it faulty? the thing is
its nice and quiet idle and when the head isnt moving all over the place, so
thats not too bad. I cant see why though that it make sso much more noise
than the cuda4 when seaking so prehaps it is fauly.
Anyone else care to comment.
Jaime
John Smith
is it supposed to be like that? I mean, you go to someone's house in a week
or a month, discover they have a silent PC and, worse, discover they have
the same drive you have - would that then make your drive faulty?
Go here and post your question on the storage forum -
http://www.silentpcreview.com/
Bye,
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:zBhNa.45454$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
John Smith
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=4093
J.
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEhNa.2380$ju6....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> The problem in this kind of situation is do you know your drive is faulty
or
> is it supposed to be like that? I mean, you go to someone's house in a
week
> or a month, discover they have a silent PC and, worse, discover they have
> the same drive you have - would that then make your drive faulty?
>
> Go here and post your question on the storage forum -
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/
Dam stupid me, I had heard of this and as I though the cuda 4's where noisy
I asumed they where in performance mode, I think it seems that my impression
of noise is a little different and that my cuda 4's where already on quite
seeks.
This is very anoying, I think I will contact the vendor (tekheads) telling
them the whole story and asking what they will let me do about it. Then
depending on their reaction decide if I shope with them again.
Regards
Jaime
Rod Speed
> John Smith <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote
>> The problem in this kind of situation is do you know your drive is faulty
>> or is it supposed to be like that? I mean, you go to someone's house
>> in a week or a month, discover they have a silent PC and, worse, discover
>> they have the same drive you have - would that then make your drive faulty?
>> Go here and post your question on the storage forum -
>> http://www.silentpcreview.com/
> Dam stupid me, I had heard of this and as I though the cuda
> 4's where noisy I asumed they where in performance mode,
> I think it seems that my impression of noise is a little different
> and that my cuda 4's where already on quite seeks.
> This is very anoying, I think I will contact the vendor (tekheads) telling
> them the whole story and asking what they will let me do about it.
> Then depending on their reaction decide if I shope with them again.
One approach would be to emphasise the fact that the pdf
says the drive can do acoustic management and in fact it cant.
Legally the goods you were supplied with do not match the
description and legally they have to refund, even if you had
to use it to discover that it does not match the description.
Jaime
faulty
> >> or is it supposed to be like that? I mean, you go to someone's house
> >> in a week or a month, discover they have a silent PC and, worse,
discover
> >> they have the same drive you have - would that then make your drive
faulty?
>
> >> Go here and post your question on the storage forum -
> >> http://www.silentpcreview.com/
>
> > Dam stupid me, I had heard of this and as I though the cuda
> > 4's where noisy I asumed they where in performance mode,
> > I think it seems that my impression of noise is a little different
> > and that my cuda 4's where already on quite seeks.
>
> > This is very anoying, I think I will contact the vendor (tekheads)
telling
> > them the whole story and asking what they will let me do about it.
> > Then depending on their reaction decide if I shope with them again.
>
> One approach would be to emphasise the fact that the pdf
> says the drive can do acoustic management and in fact it cant.
>
> Legally the goods you were supplied with do not match the
> description and legally they have to refund, even if you had
> to use it to discover that it does not match the description.
>
Thanks, I shall make sure I try and get a refund out of them, although I
think I will have to wait until Monday to get it sorted. I guess the next
question is which SATA or PATA hard disk is as quiet as the cuda 4's (or
nearly as quiet) yet provides high capacity ( >=120gb) and who in the UK
still has stock.
From the forum linked a cuda 5 pata/sata 120gb drive would fit the bill,
however finding a supplier that stil stocks these rather than the 7200.7 is
difficult.
Regards
Jaime
John Smith
This url for the Citizens Advice Bureau gives pdf info on a variety of
Consumer Rights. I find it is handly having one of these close at hand to
quote precise phrases when getting refunds:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/consumer_fact_sheets_index.htm
The research I did on finding a quiet drive basically concluded, from a
variety of sources, that no drives were as quiet as the Barracuda IVs. The
Seagate SATA in particular - well, I have read first hand accounts online in
that forum I gave you the url for, as well as reviews there, that noise-wise
it ain't too hot and that its performance is not that brilliant either.
Alot of people appear to be going for the Samsung drives for peace and
size - http://www.watford.co.uk sell them under Savacentre - but there are
some newer, faster, bigger and supposedly very quiet Samsung ones out
recently but which have not yet appeared here in the UK so... it might be
worth waiting.
I am very happy with my Seagate VII with 8MB cache - that 8MB cache makes a
big difference - and I got mine from http://www.wstore.co.uk for under £100
incl P&P and VAT. They also sell the IV and V series.
If you want the Seagate V series then http://www.overclockers.co.uk sell
several sizes but all with the 2MB Cache. Also.
http://www.theoverclockingstore.co.uk sell them but I emailed them yesterday
asking what size cache they had and, so far, no reply from them so,
personally, I would not buy there.
I think http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/k.asp has some V series and also you
could try http://www.microdirect.co.uk or the UK version of www.insight.com
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:EujNa.45498$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
J.Clarke
Always read the spec sheet. For the 7200.7 family it is at
<http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_7_155
9002_2003_03.pdf>
The data sheet indicates that seek noise in quiet mode is 2.8 Bels for
the 120 and 160 and 2.4 for the smaller drives. In performance mode it
is 3.4 and 3.1, a good deal louder.
I don't think Seagate has a utility for switching modes, but if you can
get hold of a bootable Linux distribution you should be able to use
HDPARM to change from performance mode to quiet mode and once done the
drive should remember the setting.
>
> Jaime
>
>
--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J.Clarke
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> The problem in this kind of situation is do you know your drive is
> faulty or is it supposed to be like that? I mean, you go to someone's
> house in a week or a month, discover they have a silent PC and, worse,
> discover they have the same drive you have - would that then make your
> drive faulty?
>
> Go here and post your question on the storage forum -
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/
If the noise level exceeds the manufacturers specs, then it would be
faulty, IMO. It's not a subjective matter.
> Bye,
>
>
> J.
>
>
> "Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:zBhNa.45454$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
> >
> > "John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:HuhNa.3454$nP....@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> > > Don't you have to use a drive to discover it is faulty?
> > >
> > > J.
> >
> > But its not faulty, its just not as I wanted. Or is it faulty? the
> > thing
> is
> > its nice and quiet idle and when the head isnt moving all over the
> > place,
> so
> > thats not too bad. I cant see why though that it make sso much more
> > noise than the cuda4 when seaking so prehaps it is fauly.
> >
> > Anyone else care to comment.
> >
> > Jaime
> >
> >
>
>
John Smith
I just read my manual, which is also for your drive, and there is no mention
of quiet mode or performance mode so, I assume, no Seagate way of changing
them.
Didn't that forum link I posted have info on how other Seagate users were
using Hitachi software to change the modes on their HDs?
J.
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:20030704140403....@attglobal.net...
John Smith
not? Is everyone supposed to have a decibel meter at hand?
I just built two identical PCs for two friends of mine who work in the same
office. One cannot hear the WD 120GB with 8MB Cache drive in his PC. The
other guy can. Of course it is subjective if accurate measuring devices
aren't used and not many of us have those in our homes.
J.
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:20030704140536....@attglobal.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Jaime,
>
> This url for the Citizens Advice Bureau gives pdf info on a variety of
> Consumer Rights. I find it is handly having one of these close at hand to
> quote precise phrases when getting refunds:
>
>
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/consumer_fact_sheets_index.htm
>
Thanks for that.
> The research I did on finding a quiet drive basically concluded, from a
> variety of sources, that no drives were as quiet as the Barracuda IVs. The
> Seagate SATA in particular - well, I have read first hand accounts online
in
> that forum I gave you the url for, as well as reviews there, that
noise-wise
> it ain't too hot and that its performance is not that brilliant either.
>
> Alot of people appear to be going for the Samsung drives for peace and
> size - http://www.watford.co.uk sell them under Savacentre - but there are
> some newer, faster, bigger and supposedly very quiet Samsung ones out
> recently but which have not yet appeared here in the UK so... it might be
> worth waiting.
>
I'll chekc them out, thanks.
> I am very happy with my Seagate VII with 8MB cache - that 8MB cache makes
a
> big difference - and I got mine from http://www.wstore.co.uk for under
£100
> incl P&P and VAT. They also sell the IV and V series.
But the vII doenst have AMM so will be as loud as the drive I have wont it?
Which isnt quiet at all.
> If you want the Seagate V series then http://www.overclockers.co.uk sell
> several sizes but all with the 2MB Cache. Also.
> http://www.theoverclockingstore.co.uk sell them but I emailed them
yesterday
> asking what size cache they had and, so far, no reply from them so,
> personally, I would not buy there.
>
> I think http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/k.asp has some V series and also you
> could try http://www.microdirect.co.uk or the UK version of
www.insight.com
Thanks for the links.
I think I will try and pick up another barracuda 4 80 gb for now, If I can
get the drive returned.
Regards
Jaime
Jaime
> > saying
> > > the 160GB plus VIIs were noisey so I opted for a 120GB which, only
> > > been in for a couple of hours, is wonderfully quiet. Touch wood.
> > >
> >
> > Dam, I presumed that they would make the same amount of noise, I
> > should have prehaps gone for the 120GB version.
> >
> > Thanks for the reply though
>
> Always read the spec sheet. For the 7200.7 family it is at
> <http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_7_155
> 9002_2003_03.pdf>
>
> The data sheet indicates that seek noise in quiet mode is 2.8 Bels for
> the 120 and 160 and 2.4 for the smaller drives. In performance mode it
> is 3.4 and 3.1, a good deal louder.
>
> I don't think Seagate has a utility for switching modes, but if you can
> get hold of a bootable Linux distribution you should be able to use
> HDPARM to change from performance mode to quiet mode and once done the
> drive should remember the setting.
>
Thanks, however I tried the Hitatchi feature tool and it says that the drive
doenst support amm which I am lead to believe is the case for all 7200.7
drives. Any idea if it is actually possible to make this change?
Thanks
Jaime
John Smith
incredibly quiet and incredibly fast. I got it from Wstore, ordered it at
4ish last night and it arrived about 11 this morning.
I was afraid it would be slower than my noisy WD 120GB with 2MB Cache -
because people say the WDs are so fast - but this Seagate flies. I am very
pleased I bought it and wish I had got it a few weeks back first of all
instead of ordering the WD. If it keeps up this performance I will be
ordering another one in a few weeks.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:EZjNa.45511$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
John Smith
Seagate gurus who, like you and I, want a quiet drive.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:h2kNa.45512$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Jaime,
>
> I just read my manual, which is also for your drive, and there is no
mention
> of quiet mode or performance mode so, I assume, no Seagate way of changing
> them.
>
> Didn't that forum link I posted have info on how other Seagate users were
> using Hitachi software to change the modes on their HDs?
>
Yes it did but only on the cuda V's NOT the 7200.7 's, which is what my
drive is.
Thanks
Jaime
Jaime
> incredibly quiet and incredibly fast. I got it from Wstore, ordered it at
> 4ish last night and it arrived about 11 this morning.
>
> I was afraid it would be slower than my noisy WD 120GB with 2MB Cache -
> because people say the WDs are so fast - but this Seagate flies. I am very
> pleased I bought it and wish I had got it a few weeks back first of all
> instead of ordering the WD. If it keeps up this performance I will be
> ordering another one in a few weeks.
>
> J.
My drive is st316002 3as, which as its also a 7200.7 I woudl have though is
as noisy. Its not that my drive is like a nail gun or anything when seeking,
its just that I can hear the seaks of the cuda 4's (which are in quiet seek
mode as I checked with the hitachi tool). I leave my machine on in my
bedroom so hence I require it as quiet as possible.
Thanks for the post
Jaime
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> No idea - you need to ask this question in that forum as they all seem to
be
> Seagate gurus who, like you and I, want a quiet drive.
Thanks, I shall head over there.
Regards
Jaime
John Smith
the VIIs using the Hitachi software.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:D4kNa.45514$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
John Smith
When I ordered my drive yesterday I noticed several sites were selling 2MB
cache drives for MORE money than 8MB cache drives.
When I bought my WD 120GB 2MB Cache HD a few weeks back the 8MB Cache
version was about £25 more but, again I noticed yesterday, the 2MB Cache WDs
were generally more expensive than the 8MB ones.
I think this is simply because they are making and selling more of the 8MB
drives so they work out cheaper.
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:e7kNa.45517$9C6.2...@wards.force9.net...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Isn't that model a 2MB Cache one? If so, maybe that is the difference?
>
> When I ordered my drive yesterday I noticed several sites were selling 2MB
> cache drives for MORE money than 8MB cache drives.
>
> When I bought my WD 120GB 2MB Cache HD a few weeks back the 8MB Cache
> version was about £25 more but, again I noticed yesterday, the 2MB Cache
WDs
> were generally more expensive than the 8MB ones.
>
> I think this is simply because they are making and selling more of the 8MB
> drives so they work out cheaper.
>
No thats a sata one hence has 8mb cache,
Jaime
Jaime
> nice and quiet, however its very noisy when seaking comapred with the cuda
> 4's I have which arnt exactly quiet either. Is there any way to make it
seak
> quiter, is this normal.
>
Just to update, I have read several reviews and they do not refer to noisy
seeks so either my drive is a different version or I am being very noise
sensitive? Is it possible that my drive has soem kind of fault, or that some
drive where shiped with amm enabled which as far as I can tell this drive
doesnt support.
Thanks
Jaime
John Smith
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:tlnNa.47105$xd5.2...@stones.force9.net...
Jaime
>
Thanks, I'll give them a ring Monday and get shot of it. Looks like the SATA
120GB cuda V is the way to go.
Thanks
Jaime
Rod Speed
> > nice and quiet, however its very noisy when seaking comapred with the cuda
> > 4's I have which arnt exactly quiet either. Is there any way to make it
> seak
> > quiter, is this normal.
> >
>
> Just to update, I have read several reviews and they do not refer to noisy
> seeks so either my drive is a different version or I am being very noise
> sensitive?
Probably the last, maybe compounded by a case that makes it more audible.
> Is it possible that my drive has soem kind of fault,
Nope.
> or that some drive where shiped with amm enabled
> which as far as I can tell this drive doesnt support.
That might have changed over time. The PATA version
does appear to allow the AMM to be changed, even tho
it doesnt report it as being supported for legal reasons.
Your problem is finding a ute than can change it with a SATA drive.
Jaime
is
> > > nice and quiet, however its very noisy when seaking comapred with the
cuda
> > > 4's I have which arnt exactly quiet either. Is there any way to make
it
> > seak
> > > quiter, is this normal.
> > >
> >
> > Just to update, I have read several reviews and they do not refer to
noisy
> > seeks so either my drive is a different version or I am being very noise
> > sensitive?
>
> Probably the last, maybe compounded by a case that makes it more audible.
It is mounted almost identically to the baracuda 4's and I would say its 4
or 5 times as loud as them (of course thats a complete guess though)
> > Is it possible that my drive has soem kind of fault,
>
> Nope.
Thanks, thats helpful to know, I did think that was probably the case
though.
> > or that some drive where shiped with amm enabled
> > which as far as I can tell this drive doesnt support.
>
> That might have changed over time. The PATA version
> does appear to allow the AMM to be changed, even tho
> it doesnt report it as being supported for legal reasons.
Is this the 7200.7? Your not confusing it with the V?
> Your problem is finding a ute than can change it with a SATA drive.
Hitatchi disk utility (boot disk thing) finds the drive and reports it as
not having AMM, so looks like it could change it if it though it had it.
Are there any previous discusions on the 7200.7 sata (or the pata) in
regards to AMM that I have missed?
Thanks
Jaime
Rod Speed
I'd expect that Seagate would most likely have disabled
AMM the same way with both of them, and thats just not
so obvious because Hitachi's Feature Tool doesnt see
the SATA drives, so it cant be used to enable it etc.
>> Your problem is finding a ute than can change it with a SATA drive.
> Hitatchi disk utility (boot disk thing) finds the drive and reports it as
> not having AMM, so looks like it could change it if it though it had it.
Yes, but clearly it can be changed in the PATA
drives, even if they report that they dont support it.
Checking what they report they can do is a separate issue
to what they do if the command is issued to the drive.
It wouldnt be surprising if Seagate chose the easy way
when purportedly disabling that in the drives once they
decided that there was a patent/royalty problem with it.
> Are there any previous discusions on the 7200.7 sata
> (or the pata) in regards to AMM that I have missed?
Yes, but that one John listed the link to is much better.
J.Clarke
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> So how does Joe Public gauge whether it exceeds the manufacturers
> specs or not? Is everyone supposed to have a decibel meter at hand?
If you are going to court then yes, you should have such a meter,
calibrated, or results from same, with testing performed according
to whatever procedure the drive manufacturer defines for such tests.
The drives aren't rated for "Joe Public thinks it's quiet", they're
rated for a specific sound power level when tested in a particular
manner.
J.Clarke
My server doesn't seem to have the post of which the above is a part, so
I'll comment here. What leads you to believe that the drive cannot do
acoustic management? Being unable to perform a function is not the same
as having the function default to being turned off, and if it ends up in
court I suspect that Seagate's lawyers will eat your lunch on this one.
> > Legally the goods you were supplied with do not match the
> > description and legally they have to refund, even if you had
> > to use it to discover that it does not match the description.
> >
>
> Thanks, I shall make sure I try and get a refund out of them, although
> I think I will have to wait until Monday to get it sorted. I guess the
> next question is which SATA or PATA hard disk is as quiet as the cuda
> 4's (or nearly as quiet) yet provides high capacity ( >=120gb) and who
> in the UK still has stock.
>
> From the forum linked a cuda 5 pata/sata 120gb drive would fit the
> bill, however finding a supplier that stil stocks these rather than
> the 7200.7 is difficult.
>
> Regards
>
> Jaime
>
>
J.Clarke
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > I did some research online before buying and quite a few people
> > > > were
> > > saying
> > > > the 160GB plus VIIs were noisey so I opted for a 120GB which,
> > > > only been in for a couple of hours, is wonderfully quiet. Touch
> > > > wood.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Dam, I presumed that they would make the same amount of noise, I
> > > should have prehaps gone for the 120GB version.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply though
> >
> > Always read the spec sheet. For the 7200.7 family it is at
> > <http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_7
> > _155 9002_2003_03.pdf>
> >
> > The data sheet indicates that seek noise in quiet mode is 2.8 Bels
> > for the 120 and 160 and 2.4 for the smaller drives. In performance
> > mode it is 3.4 and 3.1, a good deal louder.
> >
> > I don't think Seagate has a utility for switching modes, but if you
> > can get hold of a bootable Linux distribution you should be able to
> > use HDPARM to change from performance mode to quiet mode and once
> > done the drive should remember the setting.
> >
>
>
> Thanks, however I tried the Hitatchi feature tool and it says that the
> drive doenst support amm which I am lead to believe is the case for
> all 7200.7 drives. Any idea if it is actually possible to make this
> change?
Why would a utility from Hitachi provide correct information about a
competing manufacturer's drive?
> Thanks
Rod Speed
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:20030704225749....@attglobal.net...
Presumably because IBM chose to do it that way.
Its always been happy to allow it to be
used on other manufacturer's drives.
Rod Speed
J.Clarke <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:20030704230003....@attglobal.net...
> "John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So how does Joe Public gauge whether it exceeds the manufacturers
> > specs or not? Is everyone supposed to have a decibel meter at hand?
>
> If you are going to court then yes, you should have such a meter,
> calibrated, or results from same, with testing performed according
> to whatever procedure the drive manufacturer defines for such tests.
> The drives aren't rated for "Joe Public thinks it's quiet", they're rated
> for a specific sound power level when tested in a particular manner.
Most of the first world doesnt run off to a court and line the
pockets of parasite lawyers in the process with something like that.
They have much more practical avenues for small consumer claims like that.
Fred
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:20030704225749....@attglobal.net...
Presumably because IBM chose to do it that way.
Fred
J.Clarke <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:20030704230003....@attglobal.net...
> "John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So how does Joe Public gauge whether it exceeds the manufacturers
> > specs or not? Is everyone supposed to have a decibel meter at hand?
>
> If you are going to court then yes, you should have such a meter,
> calibrated, or results from same, with testing performed according
> to whatever procedure the drive manufacturer defines for such tests.
> The drives aren't rated for "Joe Public thinks it's quiet", they're rated
> for a specific sound power level when tested in a particular manner.
Most of the first world doesnt run off to a court and line the
pockets of parasite lawyers in the process with something like that.
They have much more practical avenues for small consumer claims like that.
> > I just built two identical PCs for two friends of mine who work in the
John Smith
settings.
J.
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:20030704225749....@attglobal.net...
John Smith
anal.
J.
"J.Clarke" <jcl...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:20030704230003....@attglobal.net...
John Smith
that thick rubber sleeve that a V Seagate drive of mine had. Maybe heat is
an issue - I don't know - but I suspect one of those rubber sleeves would
have reduced any noise.
J.
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be554u$1ecmu$1...@ID-69072.news.dfncis.de...
Jaime
The feature tool does see the sata drive, even alows me to change the cache
setting on it and gives me the usual details about the drive including that
it does not support AMM. Any suggestions as for a utility that might work?
Jaime
Jaime
> >
> > Dam, I presumed that they would make the same amount of noise, I
> > should have prehaps gone for the 120GB version.
> >
> > Thanks for the reply though
>
> Always read the spec sheet. For the 7200.7 family it is at
> <http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_7_155
> 9002_2003_03.pdf>
>
> The data sheet indicates that seek noise in quiet mode is 2.8 Bels for
> the 120 and 160 and 2.4 for the smaller drives. In performance mode it
> is 3.4 and 3.1, a good deal louder.
>
> I don't think Seagate has a utility for switching modes, but if you can
> get hold of a bootable Linux distribution you should be able to use
> HDPARM to change from performance mode to quiet mode and once done the
> drive should remember the setting.
>
Any guides as to changing this setting as I can't seem to find much
information about HDPARM.
Jaime
J.Clarke
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> I am sorry if you take offence but I think that thinking is just
> simply anal.
It may be anal, but the courts thrive on such anality.
J.Clarke
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> And nothing was said about 'correct' information but rather simply to
> change settings.
If it can't even tell you the correct information then how would it be
able to change settings?
Hitachi is not Seagate. Seagate is not Hitachi. They are competing
companies. If Seagate drives are noisy or slow and can't be adjusted
while Hitachi drives can, that is to Hitachi's benefit. So why would
they make a tool that worked with Seagate drives? If the two drives
work identically in some particular regard then the Hitachi tool will
work with both. If Seagate changes the way a particular feature is
implemented then Hitachi has no reason to change their utility
accordingly and every reason to not do so.
So the fact that Hitachi utility does not do whatever you want it to do
with a Seagate drive just tells you that Seagate drives are different
from Hitachi drives.
J.Clarke
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote:
> snip
> > >
> > > Dam, I presumed that they would make the same amount of noise, I
> > > should have prehaps gone for the 120GB version.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply though
> >
> > Always read the spec sheet. For the 7200.7 family it is at
> > <http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_7
> > _155 9002_2003_03.pdf>
> >
> > The data sheet indicates that seek noise in quiet mode is 2.8 Bels
> > for the 120 and 160 and 2.4 for the smaller drives. In performance
> > mode it is 3.4 and 3.1, a good deal louder.
> >
> > I don't think Seagate has a utility for switching modes, but if you
> > can get hold of a bootable Linux distribution you should be able to
> > use HDPARM to change from performance mode to quiet mode and once
> > done the drive should remember the setting.
> >
>
> Any guides as to changing this setting as I can't seem to find much
> information about HDPARM.
"man hdparm" or "hdparm --help" should get you enough information to
change the acoustic management setting.
"hdparm -M /dev/hda" (or whatever device the hard disk is--for IDE
drives, Primary Master is hda, slave is hdb, secondary master is hdc,
slave is hdd) should get you the current acoustic management status.
"hdparm -M 255 /dev/hda" should set for maximum performance, "hdparm -M
128 /dev/hda" should set for minimum noise.
Note that the "-M" parameter for hdparm is new and experimental and may
not work with all drives.
Jaime
> > Any guides as to changing this setting as I can't seem to find much
> > information about HDPARM.
>
> "man hdparm" or "hdparm --help" should get you enough information to
> change the acoustic management setting.
>
> "hdparm -M /dev/hda" (or whatever device the hard disk is--for IDE
> drives, Primary Master is hda, slave is hdb, secondary master is hdc,
> slave is hdd) should get you the current acoustic management status.
> "hdparm -M 255 /dev/hda" should set for maximum performance, "hdparm -M
> 128 /dev/hda" should set for minimum noise.
>
> Note that the "-M" parameter for hdparm is new and experimental and may
> not work with all drives.
>
Thanks, I've just been reading some guides, I guess the big question is
whats SATA support like under linux? As you can probably tell I know very
little about linux so its quite difficult to get to grips with such tools.
Also coincidently I think this will alos work to shut up the noisy hard
disk on my sony vaio laptop that clicks like hell, now all I need for that
is a external floppy or cdrom drive to boot from.
Jaime
John Smith
Several of them, the one about purchasing from the Internet for example,
mentions this.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/consumer_fact_sheets_index.htm
They are very handy to quote when getting goods exchanged. One vendor
insisted on me paying for the return of a computer case until I mention the
exact wording of the Law... and pointed out that it was now a criminal
offence... the following day a courier arrived to pick up the case.
J.
"Mark M" <MarkM_csiphs...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:93AF9053...@130.133.1.4...
> "John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > UK Law changed on March 31st and if you say something is faulty
> > the onus is now on the vendor to prove it is not faulty plus
>
> Interesting. Do you have a reference to the law or to the change
> because I would like to look up some more about this.
>
> > at
> > last, they must also pay for return shipping and cannot deduct
> > it from your credit card. I would say a noisey drive is
> > potentially faulty.
>
Fred
> John Smith <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote
>> And nothing was said about 'correct' information
> but rather simply to change settings.
> If it can't even tell you the correct information
> then how would it be able to change settings?
Just issue the command to change the AMM state,
even when the drive doesnt claim to support AMM.
> Hitachi is not Seagate. Seagate is not
> Hitachi. They are competing companies.
In fact Hitachi's Feature Tool will toggle various
features in other manufacturer's drives.
> If Seagate drives are noisy or slow and can't be adjusted
> while Hitachi drives can, that is to Hitachi's benefit. So why
> would they make a tool that worked with Seagate drives?
Yes, you can make a case that a manufacturer's tool
should only do anything on one of their drives. Some
manufacturers choose not to write the tools like that.
Not just Feature Tool but quite a few diagnostics will
do some tests on other manufacturer's drives.
In fact Feature Tool DOES change the AMM mode on
the earlier Seagate drives that do report that they support
AMM, even if you could make a case for not doing that.
> If the two drives work identically in some particular
> regard then the Hitachi tool will work with both.
And a tool can obviously be written so that it will
attempt to change a particular feature, even if
the drive doesnt claim to support that feature.
> If Seagate changes the way a particular feature is implemented
> then Hitachi has no reason to change their utility accordingly
Yes, but that may happen anyway, if the tool was
originally written so that it did change the AMM mode
even when the drive doesnt report that it supports AMM.
> and every reason to not do so.
In fact Feature Tool DOES change the AMM mode on
the earlier Seagate drives that do report that they support
AMM, even if you could make a case for not doing that.
> So the fact that Hitachi utility does not do whatever
> you want it to do with a Seagate drive just tells you
> that Seagate drives are different from Hitachi drives.
In fact Feature Tool DOES change the AMM mode on
the earlier Seagate drives that do report that they support
AMM, even if you could make a case for not doing that.
Rod Speed
John Smith <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in
> One last point - what amazed me about the VII I got is that it did
> not have that thick rubber sleeve that a V Seagate drive of mine had.
Correct.
> Maybe heat is an issue - I don't know - but I suspect one
> of those rubber sleeves would have reduced any noise.
Yeah, good point.
Be interesting to see how the new Samsungs turn out on noise.
Rod Speed
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message news:iVxNa.47159$xd5.2...@stones.force9.net...
Fraid not. You basically need one that will change the AMM setting
with SATA drives even when the drive doesnt report supporting AMM.
I'm not aware of one that does that, but its technically trivial to implement.
Maybe Svend might add that to his in the circumstances.
Jaime
AFAIK I think HDPARM will do this for me, I hope. I'm just downloading a new
enought distribution of linux that has support for my sata controller
(hopefully). Then I (we) will find out if it will do this. If it does then
HDPARM is potentially very useful to many people.
If theres an easier tool or one someone can write then I'd apreciate the
info.
Thanks
Jaime
John Smith
and some background on how you can gets HDs either to perform faster or to
reduce performance so that you have a quieter drive?
I had never heard of this prior to this thread.
J.
"Fred" <fr...@nospam.com.ru> wrote in message
news:3f071b71$0$23124$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
Jaime
"John Smith" <tawse5...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> Can someone explain to me, like Dummies style, what this AMM mode/state is
> and some background on how you can gets HDs either to perform faster or to
> reduce performance so that you have a quieter drive?
>
> I had never heard of this prior to this thread.
>
>
AFAIK its a way of changing the head movement algorithms of the drive so
that it moves position differently, either performing faster or decuding the
noise that it makes. A utility is needed to change this however due to a
patent dispute seagate no longer provide one. AFAIK the only way to change
this is with the hitatchi tool mentioned or with linux hdparm, intel
application accelerator has the option for this under windows on intel ide
controllers however I tried on my cuda 4's ad it didnt want to change their
state. The difference in performance and noise of the setting of the AMM is
ntirerly dependent on the model of the drive (and possibly the specific
drive ? ) some drive alow changes in small increments (128 - 256 setting
IIRC) others have only 2 settings, fast and noisy or quiet and slow. On most
disks the performance penalty doesnt seem to be hughely significant for most
people.
Jaime
John Smith
J.
"Jaime" <use...@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:xQFNa.47253$xd5.2...@stones.force9.net...