chronic skin disease, suicidal thoughts
Ed Anderson
Thoughts about suicide have been mentioned by more than one person in the
skin-diseases groups over the last few days. We skirt around the subject
all the time. Perhaps now is the time to open up a discussion of this
taboo topic. These dark thoughts are more common than most people want to
admit. Just talking about suicide is by no means offering it as an option.
First, I'd like to point to some resources and suggest that everyone at
least scan them before offering advice...
If you just can't cope any more, please stop here first:
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ or
http://www.cyberpsych.org/aas/aasknow.htm
There are periodically posted suicide FAQs archived online at:
http://www.rochford.org/suicide/inform/faq/answers/
There is an online organization that offers anonymous counseling:
http://www.Samaritans.org.uk/textonly.html/textfaq.html
The alt.support.depression group is a good place for sharing your feelings
and getting a virtual <<<hug>>> if you need one. They have a big FAQ that
is easy to access through Philippa's Problem Pages at:
http://www.agony.org/Downdown.html
For diehards who want to compare scars, alt.suicide.holiday is just the
place. Visit the web site at http://www.xanthia.com/ash/ and read the FAQ
before dropping into the group for a frank discussion about suicide. Their
debate FAQ, for example, has a response to each of the following ploys:
1 Theological cliches
1.1 Life is a gift from god
1.2 Don't people who commit suicide go to hell?
1.3 Believe in god and he will save you
1.4 Only god decides in matters of life and death
2 Social cliches
2.1 Suicide is selfish
3 Psychological persuasion
3.1 The comparison argument
3.2 The postponement argument
3.3 There is hope
4 Pseudo psychoanalysis
4.1 Suiciders only want attention
4.2 Suicide is the easy way out
4.3 Suicide is an act of a coward
5 Pointless cliches
5.1 Suicide is not a solution
5.2 It's easy to commit suicide
5.3 Life is the only thing you have
5.4 Suicide is not natural
5.5 Then how come you are still alive?
Please stop and read their rational answers from the point of view of
someone who feels they have little left to live for. I am not making light
of this very serious problem, even if that may be a way to overcome it.
Let's dump it out into the open and talk about it. This is a support group
and that's what we're here for. Perhaps we can put some of our problems in
perspective.
Because I don't have any answers of my own, I'd like to hear sincere
advice from the support groups where this is a frequent subject.
Is anyone with a chronic skin disease ready to talk about *despair*?
-- Ed "peering into pandora's box" Anderson (crossposted)
Starrb6181
It seems that I have even heard of MD's that are certified in psychiatry and
dermatology becoming more common.
Angela
Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com> wrote in article
<6k57un$4mn$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>...
> Thoughts about suicide have been mentioned by more than one person in the
hmph...I can't relate.....
If I kill myself today, I'll miss what happens tomorrow.
Charos
well, what exactly entails chronic??? psoriasis?? I have that pretty
bad...it's not like I'm a big lesion or anything...but it's really bad on my
legs and I can't wear shorts or anything like that...and I'm suicidal, but
it's only one part of the whole suicidal tendency for me. but it's hard,
growing up with psoriasis, being ostracized from your peers, *sigh* It's one
of the reasons I stooped believing in god, what good god would inflict a
child (I was about 6 when I first developed it) with such a disease, not
deadly, but something that makes one unable to function in many ways. One
of those "cruel joke" things...how much you wanna bet if there is a god he's
up there laughin' it up at our suffering down here...otherwise, like I said
before, why would he inflict us with it?
*+_Charos_+*
Leroy Kattein
On Sat, 23 May 1998 01:49:30 -0400, "Charos" <cha...@NOSPAMnetcom.ca>
wrote:
God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
Try again.
In Love,
Leroy Kattein
NDE Message Board: http://nde.simplenet.com/board.htm
(lek...@ionet.net) (http://nde.simplenet.com)
Life + Look : Listen : Learn = Laugh : Love : Let-go
Marc
Nope, you wouldn't - you'd be dead.
Marc
--
"Making it up?" Marvin said. "Why should I want
to make anything up? Life is bad enough as it is,
without inventing any more of it."
-Marvin, the paranoid android
Robin King
Leroy Kattein wrote:
> God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
> Try again.
>
> In Love,
>
> Leroy Kattein
This is just plain false if you believe in the bible.
Robin
ObPsoriasis: So, how's the ol' skin today?
ObDepression: So, how's the ol' outlook-on-life today?
ObSuicideHoliday: Today is the last day of your entire previous life.
Olive Eye
>From: Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com>
>Perhaps now is the time to open up a discussion of this
>taboo topic. These dark thoughts are more common than most people want
to>admit. Just talking about suicide is by no means offering it as an option.
>
This is one of the stupidest, most hurtful, dangerous, and obscene posts I've
seen in a long time -- and it's going immediately into my killfile. "Cynical
and sarcastic humor" is quashed, but encouraging people to chat about doing
themselves in is just dandy. Putting ideas about pulling the plug on yourself
into the impressionable minds of all the 8-year-old kids here is peachy keen.
You know, it's a short step across the line from chatting about suicide, to
suicide, to assisted suicide, to homicide (not necessarily in that order).
Death and humor are very similar in that they're both all about the "timing,"
and I think the timing of your post is suicide for your efforts to be taken
seriously (morbidly maybe, but not seriously). When thoughts of suicide have
entered my mind, I immediately think about how much more fun and less painful
it is to kill other people rather than myself. And if death is such a good
choice, why not kill others so you can stick around to enjoy watching it. In
closing, has anyone you know tried Dovonex on necrophelia?
Uv
I wonder if Dr. Kevorkian would mind coming in to comment????
Uv <<)formerly from Michigan
Ed Anderson
In alt.suicide.holiday Leroy Kattein <lek...@ionet.net> wrote:
> "Charos" <cha...@NOSPAMnetcom.ca> wrote:
>
Yes, "chronic" means that it lasts, rather than "acute" which may be
temporary. Psoriasis definitely lasts.
>>it's not like I'm a big lesion or anything...but it's really bad on my
>>legs and I can't wear shorts or anything like that...and I'm suicidal, but
>>it's only one part of the whole suicidal tendency for me. but it's hard,
>>growing up with psoriasis, being ostracized from your peers, *sigh* It's one
>>of the reasons I stopped believing in god, what good god would inflict...
Life is not fair. I don't think that having too much faith, or too
little, or pointing the finger of blame will make any difference. How we
play with the cards we are dealt is what matters.
> God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
> Try again.
>
> In Love,
> Leroy Kattein
> NDE Message Board: http://nde.simplenet.com/board.htm
Leroy can't just say "misdeal." The disease is still there. The feelings
of despair are not trivial or so easily dismissed. Was he really saying
there is still room for blind faith? I don't know. He didn't explain. I've
read some of his other arguments for Love with a capital L. I sympathize
with his difficulty in describing it. Leroy's own intro page at his web
site disallows flames, even mild ones. Perhaps the best way to express
love, even if you can't explain it, is by example.
Let's not get into any theological debates or putdowns here.
In my own view, Love equals caring. Caring for others, and allowing others
to care for us, would seem to be a universal way of coping with feelings
of despair. If we allow ourselves to be socially isolated because of a
skin disease, we get cut off from that support network.
I'm sure there are still ways to cope in solitude. I find it helps.
-- Ed "with care" Anderson
Ed Anderson
In in alt.suicide.holiday Richard Broekman <broe...@ser1.molyvos.net> wrote:
> Die_hards_ on ash? :)
Certainly not many Energizers. <whew>
> The FAQ should probably include something about crossposting...
> ... a newsgroup which is pro-choice on suicide?
As a lurker, I find the a.s.h group to be populated by those who have
learned how to cope with despair. I was hoping to tap into some of that
wisdom, not upset the group with outsiders. The ash debate outline was
included to deflect the standard responses, in hopes that some of us who
live with dark thoughts might be encouraged to shed a few. I could have
made that more clear.
> Be aware of strong followups, unless you set follow-ups to appropriate
> groups ... Good luck with your discussion ...
Thanks for a thoughtful response.
-- Ed "we're thick skinned too" Anderson
Angela
Olive Eye <oliv...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199805231514...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> >From: Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com>
> >Perhaps now is the time to open up a discussion of this
> >taboo topic. These dark thoughts are more common than most people want
> to>admit. Just talking about suicide is by no means offering it as an
option.
>
> This is one of the stupidest, most hurtful, dangerous, and obscene posts
I've
> seen in a long time -- and it's going immediately into my killfile.
"Cynical
> and sarcastic humor" is quashed, but encouraging people to chat about
doing
> themselves in is just dandy. Putting ideas about pulling the plug on
yourself
Oh do mellow out, Olive.
You're so excitable.
Perhaps, some of the folks hauled in with this invitation will have some
pertinent comments to make about skin diseases. If not, you could maybe
just drown 'em.
Ang
TENGU
Dear Ed: I thank you for your response to me. I feel that everyone should
leave themselves open to learn, from the knowledge of others.
I too see alot of the rage and anger. This may be caused from other posts
that were not understanding or compassionate. People today are very cruel
to each other. It seems as though we are in an age of cruelty. The more
people can inflict pain the more satisifaction they receive. I feel and
reach out. I hope not to hurt anyones feelings, I try to be kind. If I
can't be kind I try and say nothing. I don't know how to be mean. It is
not in my nature. I love life (not mine at the moment ) because of the
depression. You are a very kind soul, not wishing or intending to hurt
anyone. Sometimes while the message is read a misinterpritation occurs.
Keep smiling and be happy LOVE LIFE
we only have a short time.
From Sunshine Aries..................The Great Pretender.
Life goes on, Enjoy for the Moment.........
Ed Anderson wrote in message <6k881b$8o5$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>...
Holly
Hi Tom,
I have a mild form of adult acne, not the type to warrant Accutane but
enough that *I* feel self-conscious about it. It has never led me to
feeling suicidal, although I have often felt I was to blame for the
acne. I have modified my diet, resisted touching my face, kept makeup
to a moderate level for public cover-up, and washed it twice daily,
all to no avail. In this respect, I can relate to your psoriasis.
All the myths surrounding acne and chocolate, all the ads for Oxy and
benzoil peroxide (which I cannot use without a severe burn reaction),
make me feel far more self-conscious. I feel like an adolescent who
never grew up in many ways, afflicted with an adolescent skin
condition that appears to be a lifelong struggle.
My depression *has* led me to the despair of suicide ideation and
actions, totally apart from my skin condition. Perhaps it is because
I have a different perspective towards where my depression came from
in the first place. I don't blame childhood upbringing or traumas for
my depression. Instead, I blame it on my own weakness in applying
cognitive therapy or not being able to just snap out of it.
Rationally, I understand the brain chemistry theory and take my
medication to stabilize my bipolar condition, but emotionally I feel
like I am to blame.
I guess the reason is that while I feel I can only do so much for my
acne, I feel like I *should* be able to control my mood swings. Does
that make any sense?
Holly
p'd/e'd
On Sun, 24 May 1998 13:36:28 -0500, york...@mcs.net (meerkat) wrote:
<snip>
>Well. Now, I myself have had a very long term problem with depression,
>much much longer than my psoriasis. My depression mostly occured
>throughout my childhood. Fortunately though, I was never suicidal. I have
>no idea why I've resisted such temptations, I was certainly tormented
>enough. I guess it was because somewhere inside me there was a healthy
>spark realizing that the abuse I was subjected to wasn't my fault, that I
>was indeed innocent.
> <snip> I guess that's
>because I can blame others for my depression, the psoriasis I cannot
>escape. In fact, it seems to embody in a material way the very shame that
>I felt for myself throughout my childhood.
JRStern
On 23 May 1998 15:14:06 GMT, oliv...@aol.com (Olive Eye) wrote:
>In closing, has anyone you know tried Dovonex on necrophelia?
My necropheliologist has not recommended it.
J.
owlgirl
meerkat wrote in message ...
>I wondered whether I had anything worthwhile to say in response to Ed's
>post. And it's kind of a difficult thing for me to get into. But after
>seeing one outraged response to Ed's post my conscience got the best of
>me and I knew I had to say something. Epecially as it was possibly one of
>my own posts to the psoriasis newsgroup that may have prompted Ed's post.
>I appreciate Ed's courage in posting.
well, Tom, i appreciate *your* courage in posting what you did. It is a very
honest and revealing post, especially coming at a time when you would rather
not have exposed yourself in this way. It gave me some insight into what you
and other sufferers of psoriasis have to go through.
>In tracking responses to this thread I had to download posts to
>alt.support.skin-diseases. There was an extremely--for me--wrenching post
>there.
< snip...sorry, i didn't want to snip much in this case because this post of
Tom's is so un-snippable; but the goddamn server wouldn't let me send it
with so high a quoted-text to original-text ratio>
>Well. Now, I myself have had a very long term problem with depression,
>much much longer than my psoriasis. My depression mostly occured
>throughout my childhood. Fortunately though, I was never suicidal. I have
>no idea why I've resisted such temptations, I was certainly tormented
>enough. I guess it was because somewhere inside me there was a healthy
>spark realizing that the abuse I was subjected to wasn't my fault, that I
>was indeed innocent.
>
>But as an adult, my psoriasis has at times been very difficult to deal
>with emotionally ... ahh, there's an understatement! ... and probably has
>driven me closer to the depths of despair and depression that accompany
>suicidal ideation than my childhood depression ever did.
<more bloody snipping...grrrr>
> What got me through was
>that I had a goal, I was working on my education and eventually got my
>university degrees.
>
>The toll of psoriasis is something that is rarely discussed on the
>psoriasis newsgroup and in general is avoided with psoriasis.
<yet another resented snip>
> I understand it....but it's not healthy to ignore the psycho-
>social issues.
Again, Tom, i admire you for overcoming your natural reticence about talking
of the effects of psoriasis. That is surely a huge step. I hope that healthy
spark inside of you keeps burning, and growing.
owlgirl
Leroy Kattein
On Sat, 23 May 1998 10:04:25 -0700, Robin King
<mapl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Leroy Kattein wrote:
>
>> God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
>> Try again.
>>
>> In Love,
>>
>> Leroy Kattein
>
> This is just plain false if you believe in the bible.
>
>Robin
>
>
I believe in Love, not the Bible.
The Bible is a book written about God by those who worshipped Him.
Most of them blamed God for all their troubles, just like today.
People think they must blame someone or something for everything that
happens to them instead of looking to themselves for answers. God is
not the Bible. People who worship the Bible, worship an idol.
God is Love. And He is not some old white-haired man sitting on a
throne. God has no form, yet takes every form. I have been there, seen
Him. Talked to Him. I have first-hand experience. God is Love.
Don't waste your time flaming me, I am fire-proof.
In Love,
Leroy Kattein
NDE Message Board: http://nde.simplenet.com/board.htm
(lek...@ionet.net) (http://nde.simplenet.com)
Leroy Kattein
On 24 May 1998 04:34:51 GMT, Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com> wrote:
>In alt.suicide.holiday Leroy Kattein <lek...@ionet.net> wrote:
>> "Charos" <cha...@NOSPAMnetcom.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>well, what exactly entails chronic?? psoriasis?? I have that pretty bad...
>
>Yes, "chronic" means that it lasts, rather than "acute" which may be
>temporary. Psoriasis definitely lasts.
>
>>>it's not like I'm a big lesion or anything...but it's really bad on my
>>>legs and I can't wear shorts or anything like that...and I'm suicidal, but
>>>it's only one part of the whole suicidal tendency for me. but it's hard,
>>>growing up with psoriasis, being ostracized from your peers, *sigh* It's one
>>>of the reasons I stopped believing in god, what good god would inflict...
>
>Life is not fair. I don't think that having too much faith, or too
>little, or pointing the finger of blame will make any difference. How we
>play with the cards we are dealt is what matters.
>
>> God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
>> Try again.
>>
>> In Love,
>> Leroy Kattein
>> NDE Message Board: http://nde.simplenet.com/board.htm
>
>Leroy can't just say "misdeal." The disease is still there. The feelings
>of despair are not trivial or so easily dismissed. Was he really saying
>there is still room for blind faith? I don't know. He didn't explain. I've
>read some of his other arguments for Love with a capital L. I sympathize
>with his difficulty in describing it. Leroy's own intro page at his web
>site disallows flames, even mild ones. Perhaps the best way to express
>love, even if you can't explain it, is by example.
>
>Let's not get into any theological debates or putdowns here.
>
>In my own view, Love equals caring. Caring for others, and allowing others
>to care for us, would seem to be a universal way of coping with feelings
>of despair. If we allow ourselves to be socially isolated because of a
>skin disease, we get cut off from that support network.
>
>I'm sure there are still ways to cope in solitude. I find it helps.
>
>-- Ed "with care" Anderson
Nice post Ed. It is true I can't explain Love well.
And it can't be taught, it is just for living.
I have seen many diseases cured by Love, even terminal ones.
Love always heals everything, but this is sometimes not reflected in
the body for some time. It is in the release of fear that one is
healed.
Leroy Kattein
On Sun, 24 May 1998 06:02:42 GMT, to...@home.com wrote:
>On Sat, 23 May 1998 07:15:03 GMT, lek...@ionet.net (Leroy Kattein)
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 May 1998 01:49:30 -0400, "Charos" <cha...@NOSPAMnetcom.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>well, what exactly entails chronic??? psoriasis?? I have that pretty
>>>bad...it's not like I'm a big lesion or anything...but it's really bad on my
>>>legs and I can't wear shorts or anything like that...and I'm suicidal, but
>>>it's only one part of the whole suicidal tendency for me. but it's hard,
>>>growing up with psoriasis, being ostracized from your peers, *sigh* It's one
>>>of the reasons I stooped believing in god, what good god would inflict a
>>>child (I was about 6 when I first developed it) with such a disease, not
>>>deadly, but something that makes one unable to function in many ways. One
>>>of those "cruel joke" things...how much you wanna bet if there is a god he's
>>>up there laughin' it up at our suffering down here...otherwise, like I said
>>>before, why would he inflict us with it?
>>>
>>>*+_Charos_+*
>>God does not inflict anyone with any disease.
>>Try again.
>>
>>In Love,
>>
>>Leroy Kattein
>
>yes , of course god doesnt do that, its a SATAN!! I'm telling you.
>
>
>*+_Charos_+* , Its a very good thing you stopped believe in god,
>christian god, and other gods. Its very healthy.
>
>Now it is time for you to consciously take charge of your life.
>No more gods, no more faith, no more timid holding back,
>blast out of your old form, your ignorance, your weakness, and your
>mortality! The world and the future belongs to you!!!
Great! Now that I have it, what do I do with it?
Angela
Leroy Kattein <lek...@ionet.net> wrote in article
<35698cb4...@news.ionet.net>...
<....snippety-snippety....>
> The Bible is a book written about God by those who worshipped Him.
> Most of them blamed God for all their troubles, just like today.
> People think they must blame someone or something for everything that
> happens to them instead of looking to themselves for answers. God is
> not the Bible. People who worship the Bible, worship an idol.
> God is Love. And He is not some old white-haired man sitting on a
> throne. God has no form, yet takes every form. I have been there, seen
> Him. Talked to Him. I have first-hand experience. God is Love.
>
> Don't waste your time flaming me, I am fire-proof.
ahhh, go get 'em asbestos-clad Leroy!
Thank you for bringing a smile (big smile) to my face today.
Ang
lisanorth
Leroy.......I agree with you whole heartedly !!!!
Lisanorth
Leroy Kattein
You are welcome, and thanks, you have make me smile also.
Steve Cassidy
In article <356d214...@news.wwa.com>, to...@home.com () wrote:
> stuff of a generally stoopid nature
You forgot to sign it 'cletus' or 'billy-bob', dude...
Ed Anderson
In alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis Leroy Kattein <lek...@ionet.net> wrote:
> Nice post Ed. It is true I can't explain Love well.
> And it can't be taught, it is just for living.
> I have seen many diseases cured by Love, even terminal ones.
> Love always heals everything, but this is sometimes not reflected in
> the body for some time. It is in the release of fear that one is
> healed.
Leroy, since you appreciated my last post, allow me to continue.
If you are practicing what you preach, then you must realize that you are
creating more problems than you heal. I think you either need to revise
your definition of Love, or start adhering to your own beliefs.
Over in the skin-diseases groups, we have learned that fanatics can be
easily distinguished by their closed minded obsession with one solution
over all others. It really doesn't matter what the motivations are behind
the promotion. The results are the same.
We have also learned that what works for one person may be completely
useless for others. You must accept that if you have any respect or
compassion for your fellow humans. There is no "one way".
Love implies respect. It can be taught be example. If were "living" it,
you would not spend so much time attempting to dehumanize others. This
isn't a place for brainwashing or deprogramming techniques. You have
wandered into a delicate area where people are trying to discuss their
innermost feelings, and share their techiques of coping. That is a valid
way of "releasing fear." You invalidate all of that because you think you
have a better way.
Please step back and look at what you are doing. Flinging insults at
people until they accept your ideas really doesn't work. It just generates
a response in kind. It's a sure sign that there is something wrong with
your whole approach. Just repeating the same message over and over isn't
very convincing either. If you can't explain your ideas, then perhaps they
aren't based on anything rational. Strong emotions that can't be expressed
(just "lived") make an unconvincing argument. Unbottling your emotions is
fine, but forcing them on everone else as the only answer doesn't help.
My own reason for crossposting into a.s.h was to solicit the wisdom and
experience of the group. I had no intention of upsetting anyone by
intruding. I tried to dissuade the inevitable quick answers by showing
that people who discuss these issues daily consider them inappropriate.
Perhaps I could have made it more clear. I was asking for people to
talk about *how* feelings of hopelessness can spiral downward into
despair, and *how* they have pulled themselves up out of that black pit.
To testify, not preach. "Just do it with Love" isn't very helpful.
So here I am again, preaching. Sorry. The difference is that I have a deep
respect for those I am writing to. I think that respect is a prerequisite
course you are missing in your teachings.
If you are curious about some specific things you can do to reduce the
angst quotient, please read a guide to posting in our P support group:
http://www.pinch.com/skin/guide.html
Please don't quote this entire post in your response. We've already read
it once and don't need to see it again. Notice that I am not angry, and
this is not a personal or insulting attack. Please don't take it that way.
I'm suggesting a problem with the way you are going about this, not with
you or your message.
Back on topic: Why is it that feelings of despair often come out as rage?
Is the anger just a byproduct of our strong emotions? I've been told that
the childish "hate" that we felt for the opposite sex ("Yuck, they're so
gross") was just a mistake of the strong emotions and hormonal drives of
early adolescence. Sometimes when I get angry, I know it is inappropriate
and often misdirected. Once I realize that, it starts to diffuse. Then I
can start to figure out why I got so upset in the first place.
My thanks to everyone who has bared a bit of their soul here.
-- Ed "how and why" Anderson
Xantherea
On Tue, 26 May 1998 to...@home.com wrote:
> On Tue, 26 May 1998 16:55:37 GMT, lek...@ionet.net (Leroy Kattein)
> wrote:
>
> >On 26 May 1998 05:40:23 GMT, "Angela" <ang...@conk.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Leroy Kattein <lek...@ionet.net> wrote in article
> >><35698cb4...@news.ionet.net>...
> >>> On Sat, 23 May 1998 10:04:25 -0700, Robin King
> >>> <mapl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >><....snippety-snippety....>
> >>
> >>> The Bible is a book written about God by those who worshipped Him.
> >>> Most of them blamed God for all their troubles, just like today.
> >>> People think they must blame someone or something for everything that
> >>> happens to them instead of looking to themselves for answers. God is
> >>> not the Bible. People who worship the Bible, worship an idol.
> >>> God is Love. And He is not some old white-haired man sitting on a
> >>> throne. God has no form, yet takes every form. I have been there, seen
> >>> Him. Talked to Him. I have first-hand experience. God is Love.
> >>>
> >>> Don't waste your time flaming me, I am fire-proof.
> >>
> >>ahhh, go get 'em asbestos-clad Leroy!
> >>Thank you for bringing a smile (big smile) to my face today.
> >>
> >>Ang
> >>
> >You are welcome, and thanks, you have make me smile also.
> >
> >
> >In Love,
> >
> >Leroy Kattein
> >
>
> yeah , you make me smile also
>
>
hahahahaha yeah, you make me laugh and spu at the same time..
Bah! why not try a Satanic cult group? much more pleasurable :)
*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*
PRESENTING..................*!*THE AFTERMATH*!*
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4...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6kfqcg$gu5$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com> wrote:
> My own reason for crossposting into a.s.h was to solicit the wisdom and
> experience of the group. I had no intention of upsetting anyone by
> intruding.
can i just say one thing...leroy isn't even vaguely representative of ash...in
fact he seems to be the exact opposite of everything that ash is...he spends
his time trying to convince us that we're wrong...and our choices can't
possibley be right...it's fun to see him rile people up though...makes things
interesting
-amoeba
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Marc
4...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <6kfqcg$gu5$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
> Ed Anderson <e...@pinch.com> wrote:
>
> > My own reason for crossposting into a.s.h was to solicit the wisdom and
> > experience of the group. I had no intention of upsetting anyone by
> > intruding.
>
> can i just say one thing...leroy isn't even vaguely representative of ash...in
> fact he seems to be the exact opposite of everything that ash is...he spends
> his time trying to convince us that we're wrong...
He's not trying to convince us we're wrong - he tells us we're wrong, as
well as idiots, and leaves it at that.
> and our choices can't
> possibley be right...it's fun to see him rile people up though...makes things
> interesting
>
> -amoeba
Marc