[OT] MSC
Duilio Foschi
Thank you
Duilio Foschi
Gregory Pietsch
<OT>
This compiler is proprietary to Microsoft, so I doubt that it's on the
Web. Probably http://www.microsoft.com is a good address, if Microsoft
even bothers to put their old compilers on their website. Otherwise,
consider another compiler. Someone has a big list of free C compilers;
it gets posted every once in a while on this list.
</OT>
Later, Gregory Pietsch
an.rei
I have MSC 6.0.
If you have something to compile send me,
I can do.
Regards Andreas
Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
3995b202...@news.tiscalinet.it...
Mark McIntyre
wrote:
>I need old MSC v.6.01a. Where can I find it ?
1) this is offtopic here
2) MSC 6 is a commercial product. The best place to buy it would be
either from microsoft, or from a software vendor.
3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
auction sites etc.
--
Mark McIntyre
C- FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
Duilio Foschi
>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>auction sites etc.
can you suggest a site ?
Thank you
Duilio
Kaz Kylheku
>Mark,
>
>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>auction sites etc.
>
>can you suggest a site ?
Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
lillo
VERY funny.
What's the problem?
I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?
Regards
Duilio
Nils Goesche
(No, not the first sentence. That was in fact written by Kaz
Kylheku. Learn to quote)
> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.
It's not meant to be funny.
> What's the problem?
>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
not ask somewhere where it's topical??
> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?
Now who is being VERY funny here?
--
Nils Goesche
Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.
Richard Heathfield
>
> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.
I fail to see what's so amusing. Kaz was perfectly serious.
>
> What's the problem?
>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.
>
> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?
Why did you post the message, when you knew it was off-topic?
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
65 K&R Answers: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton/kandr2/index.html (32
to go)
Mark McIntyre
wrote:
>Mark,
>
>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>auction sites etc.
>
>can you suggest a site ?
Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
the web, its searchable...
Kaz Kylheku
wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>wrote:
>
>>Mark,
>>
>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>>auction sites etc.
>>
>>can you suggest a site ?
>
>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>the web, its searchable...
CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
Chris Mears
No, no, Kaz, you have to mispell all the other words too. They'd
never get "suggest" or "engine" right. :)
Richard Heathfield
>
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Mark,
> >>
> >>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
> >>>auction sites etc.
> >>
> >>can you suggest a site ?
> >
> >Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
> >the web, its searchable...
>
> CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
Thomas the Tank Engine?
386sx
>I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
[OT]
This one's good and it really *is* fast:
http://www.ussc.alltheweb.com/
[/OT]
Don't ever try to access the non-value of a NULL pointer.
[OT]
This one's pretty good:
http://search.msn.com/
[/OT]
Always remember to free() your malloc().
[OT]
This one seems to be a favorite around here:
http://www.yahoo.com/
[/OT]
There. I regularly stated [OT] in the article.
--
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
The comp.lang.c FAQ
AndrewJ
>> >the web, its searchable...
>>
>> CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>
>Thomas the Tank Engine?
ROTFLMAO. ;)
-------
AndrewJ
"This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect, and it doesn't
answer the question." - Richard Heathfield.
Joona I Palaste
: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
: wrote:
:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
:>wrote:
:>
:>>Mark,
:>>
:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
:>>>auction sites etc.
:>>
:>>can you suggest a site ?
:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
:>the web, its searchable...
: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
such as the Anaconda.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"It sure is cool having money and chicks."
- Beavis and Butt-head
Brendan Sechter
Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> wrote:
>>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
^^^^^^^^
>>the web, its searchable...
>CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
He did.
--
With the amount of idiots in this world....I'll have a fun time filtering
out the defects =P -Khilent
Lew Pitcher
wrote:
>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:
>: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
>: wrote:
>:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>:>wrote:
>:>
>:>>Mark,
>:>>
>:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>:>>>auction sites etc.
>:>>
>:>>can you suggest a site ?
>:>
>:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>:>the web, its searchable...
>
>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>
>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
>such as the Anaconda.
But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
universes over) instead. <g>
Lew Pitcher
Information Technology Consultant
Toronto Dominion Bank Financial Group
(Opinions expressed are my own, not my employer's.)
Mark McIntyre
Kylheku) wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>>>auction sites etc.
>>>
>>>can you suggest a site ?
>>
>>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>>the web, its searchable...
>
>CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
Troll ye not.
Yahoo turned up 28,800 references to regular expression "Microsoft C
6". Surely one of them is relevant?
Mark McIntyre
Pitcher) wrote:
>On 14 Aug 2000 13:58:41 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
>wrote:
>
>>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:
>>: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
>>: wrote:
>>:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>>:>wrote:
>>:>
>>:>>Mark,
>>:>>
>>:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>:>>>auction sites etc.
>>:>>
>>:>>can you suggest a site ?
>>:>
>>:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>>:>the web, its searchable...
>>
>>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>>
>>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
>>such as the Anaconda.
>
>But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
>a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
>universes over) instead. <g>
Stop it, my sides hurt already.... :->
Joona I Palaste
: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:35:46 GMT, Lew_P...@tdgroup.com (Lew
: Pitcher) wrote:
:>On 14 Aug 2000 13:58:41 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
:>wrote:
:>
:>>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:
:>>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
:>>
:>>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
:>>such as the Anaconda.
:>
:>But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
:>a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
:>universes over) instead. <g>
: Stop it, my sides hurt already.... :->
For that, add about 16 or 20 shield generators. Should damage still
get through, you can't go wrong with a Hull Auto-Repair System
(providing you have a reasonably large ship though).
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Stronger, no. More seductive, cunning, crunchier the Dark Side is."
- Mika P. Nieminen
Richard Bos
> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.
>
> What's the problem?
>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
>
> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?
*sigh* I keep having to repost this:
"I asked my greengrocer for a pound of beef. I even mentioned that I
knew I was in the wrong shop. Why didn't I get my beef? And why is my
greengrocer now mad at me?"
Richard
Duilio Foschi
>not ask somewhere where it's topical??
in all NGs one can write OT subjects.
The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.
Is this NG an exception ?
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
I was afraid of that :)
>In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.
you will be happy to know that thanks to my OT message, I solved my
problem.
Did you notice how much useless bandwidth you added just to point out
that my OT message was OT ?
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
it seems that you have a lot of free time (as I do, of course).
But you don't post OT messages, do you ? :)
Duilio
Gergo Barany
Well, this newsgroup is certainly something very special. We adhere
to standards, for instance. Could you maybe quote the document that
backs up the statements I quoted?
Gergo
--
If a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape
at about 30 miles/second.
-- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming
Kaz Kylheku
>>If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
>>not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
>in all NGs one can write OT subjects.
False. In most newsgroups, one should respect the topic.
>The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.
The requirement is that you read the FAQ, read the newsgroup for a while before
starting to post, and try to remain on topic. You should also read the
recurring postings in news.announce.newusers to learn more about Usenet itself.
There is no special provision for posting whatever crap you want so long
as you have [OT] in the subject line. This is the first time I have heard
of this idea in some 11 years of reading Usenet.
From time to time people use prefixes like OT: in the subject lines of
followups to warn that the thread is drifting off topic. This annotation is a
mere courtesy to the readers, not a license to initiate crap.
Most newsgroups tolerate some degree of off topic banter from the regular
contributors, some more than others. However, it is not all that well tolerated
when coming from newcomers whose brief history consists of nothing but
off topic postings.
Writing topical, quality postings is like depositing pennies into a bank.
Going off topic is like withdrawing dollars. When the newsgroup senses
that you are in debt, you get treated like a parasite. It's not much different
from any other social structure.
A newsgroup is a bit like a sports club, for instance, a tennis club. At a
tennis club, one does not only play tennis. One also socializes. However, if,
upon joining a tennis club, you waltz onto the courts wielding a hockey stick,
you will be looked upon as an irritating nutcase. Now after a lengthy
membership, you could get away with doing that and be looked upon as a
comedian, so long as you don't make it a regular habit. Then you are back to
irritating nut. The underlying theme of the club is the particular game;
every serious member plays that game on nearly each visit, and does not
disrupt others who have come to do the same.
--
Any hyperlinks appearing in this article were inserted by the unscrupulous
operators of a Usenet-to-web gateway, without obtaining the proper permission
of the author, who does not endorse any of the linked-to products or services.
Richard Heathfield
>
> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.
In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself. That doesn't mean
it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
>
> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.
Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap. BTW it seems you
could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
>
> Is this NG an exception ?
This newsgroup discusses the C programming language. If you want to talk
about something else, go somewhere else. If you want to talk about C,
this is the place to do it.
Richard Heathfield
>
> >I fail to see what's so amusing. Kaz was perfectly serious.
>
> I was afraid of that :)
>
> >In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.
>
> you will be happy to know that thanks to my OT message, I solved my
> problem.
This statement is incorrect.
>
> Did you notice how much useless bandwidth you added just to point out
> that my OT message was OT ?
I noticed how much useless bandwidth you generated by commencing an
off-topic post. Off-topic posters are morally responsible for the
resources expended in dissuading them from doing so again in the future.
In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
fault. Don't do it again.
Duilio Foschi
>backs up the statements I quoted?
I don't get this.
Could you please explain ?
Thank you
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
this exact moment :)
>That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
"should" ? :)
>Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
what is that ?
Could you explain ?
>BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.
Regards
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
>In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
>fault. Don't do it again.
"your fault" ? childish.
I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
showed me the exit door :)
Lenny Bruce wrote a very funny book whose title was (more or less)
"how to speak dirty and impress people".
Lenny was brought to court because he had used the word "c****s*****"
in one of his shows.
The prosecutor said <Your Honour, this man used the word
"c****s*****"!>
The judge said <What! Did you really use the word "c****s*****"?>
and so on...
Regards
Duilio
Gunnar Andersson
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Duilio Foschi wrote:
> >Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
> what is that ?
Internet netiquette guidelines, copies are all over the Internet, e.g.
http://www.tamucc.edu/~compserv/polocies/rfc1855.html (thanks AltaVista).
You may even be able to find it in your native language, the first hit
reported by AltaVista was a translation into Japanese...
/ Gunnar
Richard Bos
> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.
Balderdash. One _can_ write anything anywhere, yes; but one is supposed
to keep to the topic everywhere I know, even in NGs where the topic is
extremely wide.
> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.
Doing so marks one as an anti-social jerk, who is more interested in
getting his own way than in keeping the newsgroup working.
> Is this NG an exception ?
No, it isn't. This NG, like all, tries to keep on-topic. That's what
"topic" is for.
Richard
Gergo Barany
> >Could you maybe quote the document that
> >backs up the statements I quoted?
>
> I don't get this.
>
> Could you please explain ?
You said that one can write off-topic articles as long as the
subject line says "OT". Why do you think so?
Gergo
--
It took me fifteen years to discover that I had no talent for writing,
but I couldn't give it up because by that time I was too famous.
-- Robert Benchley
Richard Heathfield
>
> Richard,
>
> >In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
> >fault. Don't do it again.
>
> "your fault" ? childish.
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
partake in that community.
>
> I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
> showed me the exit door :)
No, much more so. Topicality discussions are always topical (by
convention in comp.lang.c), so the "druids" you mention are on-topic.
You were not (although, oddly, you are now!).
Those who get most out of comp.lang.c are those who observe its
conventions.
<snip irrelevancy>
Richard Heathfield
>
> >In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.
>
> I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
> this exact moment :)
When you're in a hole, you should stop digging.
>
> >That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
>
> where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
> "should" ? :)
I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
And have you noticed that all the other respondents are giving you the
same message I am, and (IIRC) nobody has leapt gallantly to your
defence? There's a reason for that.
>
> >Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
> what is that ?
>
> Could you explain ?
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
>
> >BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
>
> English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
> ? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.
Let's try C.
386sx
>That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
>that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
>to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
>partake in that community.
It might be wise, but it's not mandatory.
>Duilio Foschi wrote:
>>
>> I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
>> showed me the exit door :)
No one can show you something that does not exist. You are the one who
decides whether to exit or not.
Mark McIntyre
> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.
Of course one can write offtopic questions. The point is, will they be
welcome? The answer is very definitely NO in most newsgroups. Most
have charters which say so. This group is one of the oldest, and
consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..
> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.
Simply putting OT in the subject is like walking into a bakers and
saying "I know you don't sell car parts, but can I have a spark plug
please". You know in advance you're in the wrong place but you still
ask - thats just stupid. What kind of silly person would do that?
> Is this NG an exception ?
No, far from it. Most groups encourage topicality.
Mark McIntyre
wrote:
>>In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.
>
>I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
>this exact moment :)
Now you're being an ass. Go read the "read this first, newbies"
message when Billy Chambless posts it next, and also learn the meaning
of the word *plonk*. And then consider the likely effect of continuing
to annoy the group gurus.
>>That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
>
>where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
>"should" ? :)
Richard is one of the more respected people here, and frequently posts
clueful answers, so in a sense he's in a strong position to make
suggestions. But even if that were not so, he's not taking moral
authority, the group is. Stop it.
>>Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
>what is that ?
Why not read it and find out? Your ISP should have an archive of RFCs,
and if not a websearch will quickly turn this one up, I promise you.
>>BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
>
>English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
>? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.
Richard was a little rude there. He should not have been but sometimes
people ask too many silly questions.
Richard Heathfield
>
> Richard Heathfield <bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> says:
>
> >That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
> >that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
> >to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
> >partake in that community.
s/partake/participate/ (oops!)
>
> It might be wise, but it's not mandatory.
This is perfectly correct. In the same way, it's wise, but not
mandatory, to refrain from wearing a blue scarf at the Stretford End on
a Saturday afternoon.
(Most British subscribers will know exactly what I mean.)
386sx
[...]
>...it's wise, but not
>mandatory, to refrain from wearing a blue scarf at the Stretford End on
>a Saturday afternoon.
>
>(Most British subscribers will know exactly what I mean.)
I believe that in America that would be equivalent to wearing a black and
gold cap in the Dog Pound.
Duilio Foschi
>You said that one can write off-topic articles as long as the
>subject line says "OT". Why do you think so?
usually you download thread subjects first and the message body when
and if you feel interested in the subject.
If you read "OT" and you are interested in kosher messages only, you
skip the message.
The bandwidth penalty is trivial.
I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter. But I guess that
better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.
In this case, the bandwidth penalty is zero.
I read many NGs, and nowhere I have seen this fury against OT
messages.
Regards
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
>consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..
this group has a charter and I duly read it before writing my
deprecated OT message. The charter does not forbid OT messages.
I enclose the charter text for your convenience.
>What kind of silly person would do that?
come on. Things are not as you describe them.
I needed to reach C programmers, and this was the right forum.
I was so right in my choice that - as a result of my OT message - what
I was looking for is now happily installed in my PC.
Still, as I try to be a correct NG user, I placed a big [OT] in the
message subject, so that most users could easily skip it.
I think that the religious fury with which I was shown the exit door
is exaggerated and a dangerous sign of intolerance.
Regards
Duilio
<charter follows>
Welcome to comp.lang.c!
This post is intended to give the new reader an introduction to
reading
and posting in this newsgroup. We respectfully request that you read
all the way through this post, as it helps make for a more pleasant
and useful group for everyone.
First of all, please keep in mind that comp.lang.c is a group for
discussion
of general issues of the C programming language, as defined by the
ANSI/ISO
language standard. If you have a problem that is specific to a
particular
system or compiler, you are much more likely to get complete and
accurate
answers in a group that specializes in your platform. Some common
ones are:
Languages and Programming
-------------------------
comp.lang.c++ The C++ Programming Language
comp.lang.asm.x86 x86 assembly language
programming
comp.programming Non-language specific
programming
comp.graphics.algorithms Issues of computer graphics
Compilers
---------
gnu.gcc The gcc free C compiler
comp.os.msdos.djgpp MS-DOS version of the free gcc
C compiler
Operating Systems
-----------------
comp.os.msdos.programmer DOS, BIOS, Memory Models,
interrupts,
screen handling, hardware
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc MS/Windows: Mice, DLLs,
hardware
comp.os.os2.programmer.misc OS/2 Programming
comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Macintosh Programming
comp.unix.programmer General Unix: processes, pipes,
POSIX,
curses, sockets
comp.unix.[vendor] Various Unix vendors
The FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) list has a wealth of information
for
both the new and veteran C programmer. No matter what your experience
level, you are encouraged to read the entire list, if only to
familiarize
yourself with what answers are available to minimize redundant
replies.
The list may be ftp'd from rtfm.mit.edu, or an online version is
available
at <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>. A handy list of
subjects
with HTML links is available at the end of this post.
If the FAQ list does not help, then many regular readers of this group
are happy to assist with problems of standard C. We have only a few
requests that we ask be adhered to, for the benefit of all:
* Please put a short summary in the subject line. Descriptions such
as
"HELP!!!!!!" are not helpful, and many regular posters ignore such
requests. A good example is, "Problem with pointers and arrays."
* State the question or the problem clearly and concisely. Describe
what
you are trying to do, and the problem you are running into. Include
all
relevant error messages.
* Include the smallest, complete and compilable program that exhibits
your
problem. As a rule, posters in comp.lang.c will not do homework,
but will
give helpful hints if you have shown some willingness to try a
solution.
* comp.lang.c is forum for discussion, and as such some regular
posters do
not give E-mail replies. Very often follow-ups to postings have
corrections,
so plan on taking part in the discussion if you post a question. If
you
do receieve e-mail replies, it is considered polite to post a
summary.
A note on comp.lang.c etiquette: Accuracy is valued very highly in
this
newsgroup; therefore posts are frequently corrected, sometimes perhaps
too harshly, and often to the annoyance of new posters who consider
the
correction trivial. Do not take it personally; the best way to fit in
with comp.lang.c is to express gratitude for the correction, move on,
and be more careful next time.
This is a very busy group, so these requests are designed to make it
as
pleasant and efficient an experience as possible. We hope it proves
a valuable commodity to you.
Feedback on this post is always welcome. Please send it to
Billy Chambless Tim Behrendsen
bi...@cast.msstate.edu t...@a-sis.com
------ OTHER RESOURCES
In addition to comp.lang.c, there is a great deal of information about
C
programming available on the World Wide Web.
Probably the definitive list of C resources on the web is Lysator
Computer
Society's Hotlinks to C Resoures:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/c-www.html
Smaller than Lysator, but less busy is my own small C Resources page:
http://www.cast.msstate.edu/~billy/c-prog.html
Many code snippits (algorithms) are available from the "snippets"
collection
by Bob Stout. It's available from http://www.brokersys.com/snippets,
or
alternatively via ftp from ftp.cdrom.com in /pub/algorithms.
Web searches can often turn up source code more efficently than asking
for
it. Try <http://www.altavista.digital.com>, or
<http://www.hotbot.com>.
Deja News allows efficient searching of Usenet. It is possible your
query was covered recently, and the answer is only a search away. Try
<http://www.dejanews.com>.
------ The comp.lang.c Frequently Asked Question subject list
The FAQ list is maintained by Steve Summit (s...@eskimo.com). An
excellent,
much-expanded book version is also available; "C Programming FAQs",
published by Addison-Wesley.
The HTML version is located at
<http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>.
It may be ftp'd from "rtfm.mit.edu" in the directory /pub/usenet.
The individual sections may be conveniently reached directly by using
the following links:
Declarations and Initializers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s1.html
Structs, Unions, and Enums
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s2.html
Expressions
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s3.html
Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s4.html
Null Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s5.html
Arrays and Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s6.html
Memory Allocation
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s7.html
Characters and Strings
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s8.html
Boolean Expr's and Variables
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s9.html
C Preprocessor
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s10.html
ANSI/ISO Standard C
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s11.html
Stdio
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s12.html
Library Functions
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s13.html
Floating Point
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s14.html
Variable-Length Argument Lists
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s15.html
Strange Problems
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s16.html
Style
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s17.html
Tools and Resources
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s18.html
System Dependencies
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s19.html
Miscellaneous
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s20.html
----- Other FAQs on related topics:
UNIX Programming FAQ
http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/faq_toc.html
Unix Socket FAQ
http://kipper.york.ac.uk/~vic/sock-faq/
Duilio Foschi
>Internet netiquette guidelines, copies are all over the Internet, e.g.
>http://www.tamucc.edu/~compserv/polocies/rfc1855.html (thanks AltaVista).
ok, I did a quick read of the guidelines.
I found a few warns against off-topic advertising, but I cannot find
my case.
I will read them more carefully later.
In the while, can you point me to the sentences you find up to the
point ?
Regards
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
>you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.
I just want to be sure that you don't export it to other areas of your
lives, or we could have quite a few new members of KKK :)
On top of it, you are adding OT to OT, and you don't seem to notice it
>http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
I have found warns against off-topic advertising. I didn't find my
case there.
>Let's try C.
ok. Please translate your message into C and re-post. I will be happy
to debug your code.
Regards
Duilio
Kaz Kylheku
>If you read "OT" and you are interested in kosher messages only, you
>skip the message.
>
>The bandwidth penalty is trivial.
False. The article is still copied to thousands of servers around the world.
Usenet is actually broader than the Internet; articles travel into nooks and
crannies like little bulletin boards with UUCP gateways. They may go over slow
or metered data links.
>I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter. But I guess that
>better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.
>
>In this case, the bandwidth penalty is zero.
You have a funny idea of zero. The article header, which has to be downloaded
by your reader before you can see the subject line, is not zero bytes long.
Your utter cluelessness, and your irrational defence of off-topic litter is
making you ever more irritating.
It looks like the time has come to vote another lamer off the island.
*plonk*
Richard Heathfield
>
> Gergo,
>
> >You said that one can write off-topic articles as long as the
> >subject line says "OT". Why do you think so?
>
> usually you download thread subjects first and the message body when
> and if you feel interested in the subject.
No. That may, or may not, be what /you/ usually do, but you cannot
generalise your own experience to that of other people.
>
> If you read "OT" and you are interested in kosher messages only, you
> skip the message.
Were everyone to do this, eventually what you call "kosher" messages
would be lost in the noise.
Again, you are generalising from what, perhaps, /you/ do, and insisting
that everyone else in this newsgroup change their habits to make it all
right for you to post off-topic articles. Wise up, kid. We aren't going
to do that.
>
> The bandwidth penalty is trivial.
For you, perhaps. Not necessarily for others, especially those who pay
by the minute for their connections.
>
> I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter.
Irrelevant.
> But I guess that
> better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.
Equally irrelevant.
>
> In this case, the bandwidth penalty is zero.
For you, perhaps. Not for others.
>
> I read many NGs, and nowhere I have seen this fury against OT
> messages.
Then go and read those newsgroups. If you don't like this one, nobody's
forcing you to read it.
Nick Keighley
ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi) wrote:
> >
> >I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
> >you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
>
> well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.
dangerous? how?
> I just want to be sure that you don't export it to other areas of your
> lives, or we could have quite a few new members of KKK :)
despite the smiley, this is just outrageous. Politely requesting
someone to be courteous is *not* the same as burning crosses on their
front lawn. To even suggest otherwise, well shows a complete lack of a
balanced view.
> On top of it, you are adding OT to OT, and you don't seem to notice it
it is generally agreed that discussion of topicality is on-topic.
Otherwise how would people like you find out they were in the wrong?
<snip>
On the subject of language. This ng is an english language one.
Allowance is made for non-native english speakers and spelling flames
are kept to a minimum (lucky for me!). But eventually it has to be
expected that posters will understand english and be able to post in
it.
--
Software, regardless of the language or OS, is being used to handle
real-world, life-or-death problems. THAT should cause fear, except
that the alternative is for every single emergency to be handled
entirely by humans...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard Heathfield
>
> >This group is one of the oldest, and
> >consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..
>
> this group has a charter and I duly read it before writing my
> deprecated OT message.
comp.lang.c predates charters.
Whatever you read, or thought you read, it sure as hell wasn't the
charter for this newsgroup, because this newsgroup has no charter.
> The charter does not forbid OT messages.
That's because there is no charter for this newsgroup. It's the
newsgroup itself, not the (non-existent) charter, that requires messages
to be topical.
> I enclose the charter text for your convenience.
That should be fun to read.
>
> >What kind of silly person would do that?
>
> come on. Things are not as you describe them.
But they are.
>
> I needed to reach C programmers, and this was the right forum.
No. You needed to reach people with Microsoft C compilers, and this was
not the right forum. A Microsoft forum would have been more appropriate.
> I was so right in my choice that - as a result of my OT message - what
> I was looking for is now happily installed in my PC.
No, you were wrong in your choice. Sometimes people do bad things, and
get away with them. That doesn't mean bad things are good.
>
> Still, as I try to be a correct NG user, I placed a big [OT] in the
> message subject, so that most users could easily skip it.
Had you been a correct NG user, you would have read the group for a
month or two before posting - in so doing, you would have discovered the
group's attitude to topicality.
>
> I think that the religious fury with which I was shown the exit door
> is exaggerated and a dangerous sign of intolerance.
What is intolerant is your insistence that we discuss what you want to
discuss rather than what we want to discuss. We subscribe to comp.lang.c
because we want to talk about the computing language called C. If we
want to talk about particular compilers, those compilers have newsgroups
associated with them, which we can use if we wish.
But then you come barging in with your off-topic stuff, and ram it down
our throats. You were too impatient to find out in advance about this
newsgroup's conventions, and you are now too intolerant to pay any
attention to the views of the majority of subscribers here.
>
> <charter follows>
>
> Welcome to comp.lang.c!
>
<snip Billy Chambless's weekly posting>
Billy Chambless would be the first to agree that his weekly guide to
comp.lang.c is not, has never been, and will never be, the comp.lang.c
charter which, as I think you've already been told, does not exist.
The newsgroup's topic is governed by the majority of subscribers, as is
common with newsgroups old enough to predate charters.
Richard Heathfield
>
> >I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
> >you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
>
> well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.
The analogy with religious zeal is utter foolishness. Nobody is saying
you should read this newsgroup to the exclusion of others. In fact, we'd
encourage you to go and use other newsgroups. Each newsgroup has a
topic. If everyone sticks to the topic of the newsgroups they use, then
nobody has cause for complaint.
>
> I just want to be sure that you don't export it to other areas of your
> lives, or we could have quite a few new members of KKK :)
Irrelevant drivel.
>
> On top of it, you are adding OT to OT, and you don't seem to notice it
Discussion of topicality is always on-topic in comp.lang.c.
>
> >http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html
>
> I have found warns against off-topic advertising. I didn't find my
> case there.
Okay, let's look at some quotes from that RFC, shall we?
- Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months
before
you post anything. This helps you to get an understanding of
the culture of the group.
Had you done this, you would not have posted your original article.
- Consider that a large audience will see your posts.
In fact, tens of thousands of people subscribe to comp.lang.c, and
you're making yourself look a bit of an idiot in front of all of them.
That may include your present or your next boss. Take
care in what you write. Remember too, that mailing lists and
Newsgroups are frequently archived, and that your words may be
stored for a very long time in a place to which many people have
access.
- Remember that both mail and news take system resources.
Indeed. No matter what you think, "zero bandwidth cost" is a falsehood.
- Messages and articles should be brief and to the point. Don't
wander off-topic,
You didn't just wander off-topic. You went off-topic right from the
start.
- Subject lines should follow the conventions of the group.
[OT] is typically prepended to a subject line some way through a thread,
as a warning that the thread is drifting off-topic. To put it in right
at the start of a thread does not follow the conventions of comp.lang.c.
>
> >Let's try C.
>
> ok. Please translate your message into C and re-post. I will be happy
> to debug your code.
#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
puts("Don't post off-topic stuff in comp.lang.c.");
return 0;
Kaz Kylheku
>>This group is one of the oldest, and
>>consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..
>
>this group has a charter and I duly read it before writing my
It has no charter. What you quoted is a periodic posting for newbies. Note
that the word charter does not even appear in it; the document does not
proclaim itself to be a charter.
>deprecated OT message. The charter does not forbid OT messages.
It's Usenet etiquette that forbids OT messages, retard! It implicitly applies
to all newsgroups, unless otherwise overruled. Why don't you read
news.announce.newusers?
In the city where I live, there are many roads and streets that have no speed
limit sign. According to your reasoning, it means that you can drive as fast as
you want, right? On the contrary, there is an implied default speed limit in
effect and you can be busted for violating it.
Kaz Kylheku
>>I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
>>you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
>
>well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.
What about your own political zeal to be the spokeskid for the Retards' Front
for the Right to Annoy Internet Newsgroups? (Acronym: REFRAIN, as in do not,
from posting any crap that pops into your head).
>>Let's try C.
>
>ok. Please translate your message into C and re-post. I will be happy
>to debug your code.
Let's try this in simpler, more verbose language that you might understand.
What your opponent is calling for is a C related discussion pertinent to the
topics of comp.lang.c. One does not write literally in the C language, for
that is not a language that is suitably expressive to discuss itself; rather,
this is an English language newsgroup for discussing C.
AndrewJ
When I first popped in here a year ago or so, I did the same thing. I posted
an off topic thread, and was appropriately flamed (by Mr. Heathfield no less).
I argued the same points you did (but took it to e-mail to respect other folks
wishes).
I lost the argument, hands down. After a few mails I finally understood /why/
topicality is such an issue in this group.
Consider. Every week (pretty much, sometimes more, sometimes less), some new
person posts an off topic question. Many respond saying "this is off topic.
go where it is not." The arguments fly, the bandwidth is consumed, and
ultimately it degrades to the poster and replier(s) insulting the intelligence,
qualities and preferences of each other, sometimes with really inappropriate
language.
Now consider that this happens almost every week. And quite often, the
original question could have been answered if the poster had taken the time to
check the FAQ for an answer. Or consulted an /appropriate/ newsgroup. Every
week. It gets rather tiresome, don't you agree?
comp.lang.c is for the discussion of the C language, as defined by the Standard
(and the Draft, depending on who you talk to). It's not for the discussion of
Unix, or Windows, or Microsoft, or Apple, or the x86, or sockets, or anything
else. There are other newsgroups available dedicated to these topics.
So why not save yourself the headache and possible killfile status you may have
gained, apologize for your off topic post, and find somewhere where it is
relevant. Other groups may not be as picky as this one, but c.l.c is, and you
can't change that, no matter how much you try (and in time perhaps you will
realize that you /don't/ want to change it anyway).
-------
AndrewJ
"This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect, and it doesn't
answer the question." - Richard Heathfield.
Duilio Foschi
>Now you're being an ass.
how rude! I will tell my mom :)
>when Billy Chambless posts it next
I read the forum charter before posting and it said nothing about OT
messages.
I din't read this last message, of course. I didn't even knew of its
existance
>then consider the likely effect of continuing to annoy the group gurus.
are you one of the group gurus ?
Or just a body guard ? :)
>Stop it.
I am appalled by the way a few of you assault semi-innocent visitors.
I find this practice dangerous and stupid.
I'd like you to review your way of doing that - to my knowledge - is
replicated in no other NG
>sometimes people ask too many silly questions.
I am sure that at a second glance you will find something serious in
my words.
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
>extremely wide.
as to my experience, I never found an OT message greeted with such a
rudeness
>Doing so marks one as an anti-social jerk, who is more interested in
>getting his own way than in keeping the newsgroup working.
for sure I am not an old bard here and I have no plan to become one,
so relax.
But I strongly reject the name of "anti-social jerk".
Quite the contrary, you will seldom find someone more conscious of
others' rights and well being.
My point is that I saw rude and racist manners.
You may justify them "for the good of the group", but this is exactly
the excuse Hitler or Stalin found to justify all sort of crimes.
If you preach intolerance for the NG's good, you may preserve the NG
but - as John Lennon would say - you are "making the world a little
colder"
>This NG, like all, tries to keep on-topic. That's what
>"topic" is for.
this is right, of course.
But I don't see OT posters "shot" in other NGs.
And I never saw NGs die out of OT messages.
At the very least, if you have hate to share, reserve it to OT
advertisement :)
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
>You were not (although, oddly, you are now!).
happy to hear I am not sinning any more :)
>Those who get most out of comp.lang.c are those who observe its
>conventions.
again, I don't make long-term projects for the NG.
I have been a C programmer long time ago when - I bet - you wore
shorts.
You may say I am a guest here.
As a guest, I think I entered the NG on my tiptoes with all the
possible care: I read the NG charter (which didn't warn me against OT
messages) , and I duly wrote [OT] in the subject in order to alert the
busy readers.
This is what I knew I should do.
The religious fury that followed my innocent OT message is really
something I never experienced.
As a daily user of this NG, you may have lost the due perspective, so
let a guest warn you.
Don't teach intolerance, don't allow it for any reason.
Quite the contrary, teach tolerance. We need it. A few OT messages
won't bring any harm. The NG will survive, as most NGs do, _with_ some
OT threads.
If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
die.
The world can live w/o comp.lang.c .
The world cannot live w/o tolerance.
Duilio
Duilio Foschi
For insults or whatever <g> , I can be reached at my email address.
Good luck
Duilio
Richard Bos
> I read the forum charter before posting and it said nothing about OT
> messages.
No, you didn't; as you have already been told, there _is_ no charter.
And even if there were, it wouldn't have to mention off-topic articles
at all; the very notion of off-topic articles means that they shouldn't
be posted here, but somewhere they are on-topic.
> I am appalled by the way a few of you assault semi-innocent visitors.
Innocent visitors? Where? All I see are people who insist that posting
off-topic messages is ok. Doesn't sound innocent to me.
> I'd like you to review your way of doing that - to my knowledge - is
> replicated in no other NG
In that case, you know bloody little about Usenet. Intentionally
off-topic messages are considered anti-social _everywhere_.
Richard
Richard Bos
> >one is supposed to keep to the topic everywhere I know, even in NGs where the topic is
> >extremely wide.
>
> as to my experience, I never found an OT message greeted with such a
> rudeness
This is probably because the problem is greater here than in other NGs.
> >Doing so marks one as an anti-social jerk, who is more interested in
> >getting his own way than in keeping the newsgroup working.
>
> But I strongly reject the name of "anti-social jerk".
How else would you describe someone who barges into a well-established
community, disregards one of its most basic rules, and then gets riled
up when people ask him to stop it (politely, at first; less politely,
after he's started being unpleasant himself)?
> My point is that I saw rude and racist manners.
Racist? We don't even know what race you are. Neither do we care. I
don't, at least. I do care about your behaviour. An off-topic poster is
an off-topic poster whether he (or she!) is black, white, or purple.
> You may justify them "for the good of the group", but this is exactly
> the excuse Hitler or Stalin found to justify all sort of crimes.
There's only one way I can seriously replay to that: "Drop dead, wop".
(For the hard of understanding: that was sarcasm. Thank you.)
> If you preach intolerance for the NG's good, you may preserve the NG
> but - as John Lennon would say - you are "making the world a little
> colder"
On the contrary. We're trying to make it more useful.
> >This NG, like all, tries to keep on-topic. That's what
> >"topic" is for.
>
> this is right, of course.
>
> But I don't see OT posters "shot" in other NGs.
Neither do I. And neither were you. You were told that posting off-topic
material is incorrect whether or not one uses [OT] to indicate that it
is off-topic. If you consider that "shot", go live in alt.flame for a
while.
> And I never saw NGs die out of OT messages.
I have.
> At the very least, if you have hate to share, reserve it to OT
> advertisement :)
I rarely to never see advertisements in this group. I frequently see
people get sarky because they're asked to keep on-topic.
Richard
386sx
>The religious fury that followed my innocent OT message is really
>something I never experienced.
Welcome to the real world.
>If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
>die.
Won't happen. There's pleanty of intolerance to go around for everyone.
>The world can live w/o comp.lang.c .
True.
>The world cannot live w/o tolerance.
Unfortunately, not true. But it is something to strive for. Unless you're
intolerant.
Congratulations on the extremely long [OT] thread. If you were the only
contributor I might not tolerate it.
386sx
Not meant as an insult. I was commenting on the irony of it all.
386sx
>ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi) wrote:
>> If you preach intolerance for the NG's good, you may preserve the NG
>> but - as John Lennon would say - you are "making the world a little
>> colder"
>
>On the contrary. We're trying to make it more useful.
"You will be assimilated."
Matt Gessner
>
> Duilio Foschi wrote:
> >
> > >In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.
> >
> > I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
> > this exact moment :)
>
This guy sounds like IOANNIS... maybe a pseudonum?
Richard Heathfield
>
> >one is supposed to keep to the topic everywhere I know, even in NGs where the topic is
> >extremely wide.
>
> as to my experience, I never found an OT message greeted with such a
> rudeness
The rudeness was yours, for knowingly posting off-topic material in
comp.lang.c.
>
> >Doing so marks one as an anti-social jerk, who is more interested in
> >getting his own way than in keeping the newsgroup working.
>
> for sure I am not an old bard here and I have no plan to become one,
> so relax.
>
> But I strongly reject the name of "anti-social jerk".
If the cap fits, wear it.
>
> Quite the contrary, you will seldom find someone more conscious of
> others' rights and well being.
Only because we keep telling you about the right of comp.lang.c
subscribers not to be pestered with off-topic articles. It's gratifying
to see that we're getting through to you.
>
> My point is that I saw rude and racist manners.
Rudeness, you earned. Racism? Nonsense. Who gives a dam what race you
are? comp.lang.c *as a newsgroup* aren't interested in race issues, but
in C. Many people who post here regularly do not have English as their
first language. That's irrelevant - what counts is what they know, or
want to learn, about C.
>
> You may justify them "for the good of the group", but this is exactly
> the excuse Hitler or Stalin found to justify all sort of crimes.
I invoke Godwin's Law. By referring to Hitler in this way, you lost the
argument (look up "Godwin's Law" in the Jargon File). Shut up and go
away. This thread is over.
Mark McIntyre
wrote:
>Mark,
>
>>Now you're being an ass.
>
>how rude! I will tell my mom :)
How else do you describe someone who continually and arrogantly
irnores the conventions and mores of the group he has joined ?
>>when Billy Chambless posts it next
>
>I read the forum charter before posting and it said nothing about OT
>messages.
There is no charter...
>I din't read this last message, of course. I didn't even knew of its
>existance
Thats why you're supposed to lurk for a couple of weeks.
>>then consider the likely effect of continuing to annoy the group gurus.
>
>are you one of the group gurus ?
Thank you for the possible compliment but no I'm not. I'm just someone
who posts here and trys to help people. My point is, you will get help
from the people who know. You're currently annoying them all. In a
couple of days you will get plonked. Then you'll get no help.
>>sometimes people ask too many silly questions.
>
>I am sure that at a second glance you will find something serious in
>my words.
I wiish I could.
--
Mark McIntyre
C- FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
Mark McIntyre
wrote:
> Richard wrote
>>Those who get most out of comp.lang.c are those who observe its
>>conventions.
>
>again, I don't make long-term projects for the NG.
>
>I have been a C programmer long time ago when - I bet - you wore
>shorts.
I'd be slightly surprised if you were a C programmer before one or two
people who post here. At least two of them invented the language. For
myself I started programming in 1985, before C was even a standard.
>As a guest, I think I entered the NG on my tiptoes with all the
>possible care:
even the most careful guest trips over occasionally. you can be
forgiven for that.
Guests are allowed to make a mistake, but are expected to listen and
learn from it. If you came into my house and sh*t on my rug, and I
asked you not to, and you did it again. I'd throw you out. In England
we have a rule against sh*tting on the rug. in CLC we have a rule
against offtopic posts.
>I read the NG charter (which didn't warn me against OT
>messages) ,
There is no charter.
>and I duly wrote [OT] in the subject in order to alert the
>busy readers.
telling me before you drop your trousers doesn't make it ok.
>This is what I knew I should do.
Unfortuntely you were mistaken. that's ok, just learn from the
mistake.
>Don't teach intolerance, don't allow it for any reason.
Absolutely, Tolerance is the watchword. However I believe you'll also
find that tolerance requires a social framework to operate in. You
broke it.
>A few OT messages
>won't bring any harm. The NG will survive, as most NGs do, _with_ some
>OT threads.
Its like rabbits. A few rabbits are ok, but you have to stop them
breeding. I've seen groups die because of OT posts.
>If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
>die.
Certainly not.
>The world can live w/o comp.lang.c .
Let it be noted that it can also live with out you and me, so lets go
off and kill outselves. You first....
>The world cannot live w/o tolerance.
Of course. However there's "tolerance" and "laissez-faire". Your
approach would say that it was ok to kill people, r*pe children and
eat fried dogfood, after all we should be tolerant of people's desires
and needs. I prefer to operate tolerance within a social framework.
Len Philpot
Foschi) wrote:
>>I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter. But I guess that
>>better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.
I, too, use Free Agent (at present, at least). I find that <down
arrow> works pretty well. If I see something off-topic, I just
move along, figuring a more intelligent reply to the OP on where
to find topicality will come from someone better qualified to do
so than I.
-- Len Philpot -> l...@philpot.org (personal) <--
----------------> len.p...@cleco.com (work) <--
------ ><> -----> http://philpot.org/ (web) <--
Dann Corbit
news:slrn8pp90e...@granicus.if.org...
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:27:27 GMT, Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
>
> >If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
> >die.
As a wise poet once said, "Intoleration is a state no tolerant man can
tolerate!"
> If this is the stand you take then go away. The news group does not have
to
> be dead for you not to deal with it.
>
> I for one like comp.lang.c. If you want to participate stay. If you do not
> like it, leave (and tolerate its existence).
Everyone has some line where they don't want to tolerate something. One
trillion child porno pictures spammed to news:comp.lang.c as attachments
would probably irk just about anyone.
So the only real question is what *not* to tolerate. Such things are
generally formed as a consensus on an unmoderated newsgroup.
It's funny how the "free speech" advocates get their buns tied in a square
knot when some "free-yet-dissenting" opinion is posted.
Harrumph! I think persons should be free to say anything they want, except
disagree with me. Anyone who disagrees with me is repressing me. Help!
Help! I'm being repressed!!!
--
C-FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
"The C-FAQ Book" ISBN 0-201-84519-9
C.A.P. Newsgroup http://www.dejanews.com/~c_a_p
C.A.P. FAQ: ftp://38.168.214.175/pub/Chess%20Analysis%20Project%20FAQ.htm
Brendan Sechter
>If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
>die.
If this is the stand you take then go away. The news group does not have to
be dead for you not to deal with it.
I for one like comp.lang.c. If you want to participate stay. If you do not
like it, leave (and tolerate its existence).
-SG
--
With the amount of idiots in this world....I'll have a fun time filtering
out the defects =P -Khilent
ke...@hplb.hpl.hp.com
ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi) writes:
>>I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
>>you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.
>
> well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.
Because you've only dropped in casually, rather than being a long-term
noise-averse reader/contributor?
> I just want to be sure that you don't export it to other areas of your
> lives, or we could have quite a few new members of KKK :)
>
> On top of it, you are adding OT to OT, and you don't seem to notice it
Discussions of topicality are traditionally cosidered to be topical
(at least, *here* they are).
--
Chris "electric hedgehog" Dollin
C FAQs at: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.c.html
ke...@hplb.hpl.hp.com
ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi) writes:
> Richard,
> I have been a C programmer long time ago when - I bet - you wore
> shorts.
What has his style of clothign to do with it?
> You may say I am a guest here.
Why, thank you. "you are a guest here."
> As a guest, I think I entered the NG on my tiptoes with all the
> possible care: I read the NG charter
There isn't one.
> (which didn't warn me against OT messages)
because that's standard nettiquette; few restaurants will have notices
telling you not to spit on the floor, either.
>, and I duly wrote [OT] in the subject in order to alert the
> busy readers.
No. What you should have done was to *not post the message*. You *knew*
it was off-topic, and you posted it anyway.
> This is what I knew I should do.
You were wrong.
> The religious fury that followed my innocent OT message is really
> something I never experienced.
There was no "religious fury"; perchance there was some righteous indignation.
And "innocent OT" is, in this context, somewhat self-contradictory. And
it suprises me that you've never experienced anything like this before.
Why, even in that most kind and gentle newsgroup r.a.s.c, there have in
the past months been fumings and cursings; if rasc can do that, certainly
other more aggro-laden tendencies could be worse. Worse than clc, easily.
> Quite the contrary, teach tolerance. We need it. A few OT messages
> won't bring any harm. The NG will survive, as most NGs do, _with_ some
> OT threads.
The belief herein is that allowing a "few" OT messages to pass will result
in the group being swamped with OT messages. Not good. This is not a touchy-
feely culture club; it's a technical forum.
> If intolerance is the price to pay for the NG to survive, let the NG
> die.
I believe that you're using the term "intolerance" too loosely, and equating
"intolerance" with "bad" to boot. To be equally over-general, I'm not
prepared to "tolerate" random murder, secret medical experimentation,
or censorship of Buffy the Vampire Slayer postings and sites. Does that
make me a bad person, that I'm so intolerant?
--
Chris "why am I reminded of windmills?" Dollin
386sx
>386sx wrote:
>>
>> Richard Heathfield <bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> says:
>>
>> >That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
>> >that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
>> >to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
>> >partake in that community.
>
>s/partake/participate/ (oops!)
>
>>
>> It might be wise, but it's not mandatory.
>
>This is perfectly correct. In the same way, it's wise, but not
>mandatory, to refrain from wearing a blue scarf at the Stretford End on
>a Saturday afternoon.
>
>(Most British subscribers will know exactly what I mean.)
Actually one would invite physical violence and the other would invite
literary violence. The question is which one is more painful.