California Coast University; New Promise.com, Bellevue.
tradezzz
question.
What are you guys' opinions with regard to California Coast University?
Same question with regard to New Promise and Bellevue. In addition, does
anyone know if the degrees conferred show "New Promise" as the granting
institution, or the name of the actual school? Also, is it true that
Bellevue actually holds regional accreditation?
Please respond to me directly at trad...@yahoo.com. I usually can't find
my way back to wherever I post messages.
Thank you...and happy holidays to everyone!
P.S.: By the way, this user group is very informative!
Pete
California Coast is state approved and the usefulness of a degree from
this school *outside of CA* is doubtful. Recently, pursuing a degree
for self-esteem purposes exclusively has become a topic in a.e.d, if
this is your goal, then CCU may be for you. Although some in the
group pussy foot around calling it a 'junk school', practically no
one will recommend it as forcefully as they recommend a regionally
accredited college. If CCU is such a solid state school, then the
time is nigh for it to seek RA; it owes this much to its present and
former students.
Mind you tradezzz, for most, RA is just the lowest common denominator.
And as Larry pointed out recently (paraphrased here) with something
like 3000 RA colleges and universities to chose from, why should you
lower your standards?
On to New Promise... this is a *DATABASE* just like Peterson's
Distance Learning Channel (http://www.petersons.com/dlearn/),
Peterson's and Regents College's Life Long Learning Center
(http://www.lifelonglearning.com), etc. These entities do not grant
degrees. New Promise happens to specialize in listing regionally
accredited *online* courses and programs. It was founded by Harvard
Business Grads and a couple of the faculty advised. Mind you, the
mere association of the 'Harvard' brand with a school or business does
not guarantee it will suit you or that it is a legitimate
Re: Bellevue, it's regionally accredited.
All of these topics can be researched at Deja by doing a power search
- http://www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml. If you can't deal with Outlook
Express to track your posts (which I find doubtful), you might want to
sign up at deja.com ; )
Recently, there have been several interesting posts on how earn a
degree on the cheap and quickly. You may also want to check out
Regents College, Charter Oak and Thomas Edison when you search the
above link.
Happy Holidays,
Pete
On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:35:08 -0800, "tradezzz" <trad...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Larry McQueary
look up a recent post by Steve Montelli, in which he attests to the low
standards of Cal. Coast's DBA program, and describes his hasty retreat from this
school.
I would go so far as to say that the usefulness of a Cal. Coast degree even
INSIDE California is going to be doubtful (IMHO).
Larry
Pete <whale...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3853b75...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Tom Head
> After having just posted some responses regarding, DL, I now have an
> actual question.
>
> What are you guys' opinions with regard to California Coast University?
California state approved (no small feat), but not accredited. I'd avoid 'em
myself and choose a more marketable option. A few people in the newsgroup
have even gone so far as to call it a degree mill, altough I personally
haven't looked enough at their curriculum to agree with this judgment. What
little I've seen suggests that they are a quite legitimate university, but
maybe just a little too lax for regional accreditation -- and as employers
often don't care to learn the difference between an unaccredited degree from
California Coast and one from, say, the Universal Life Church...
> Same question with regard to New Promise and Bellevue. In addition, does
Bellevue is definitely accredited, but I can't remember if it's accredited by
a regional agency or by the DETC. Probably the former, but don't take my word
for it. Bellevue has a pretty good reputation overall, although I seem to
remember somebody here once saying that they were a little slow. (Can anyone
offer opinions on this institution?) But a Bellevue degree is definitely
worthwhile.
I know nothing about New Promise, I'm afraid.
> anyone know if the degrees conferred show "New Promise" as the granting
> institution, or the name of the actual school? Also, is it true that
> Bellevue actually holds regional accreditation?
I think Bellevue holds regional accreditation, but I wouldn't swear to it. I
know that they're accredited by at least one recognized agency.
> Please respond to me directly at trad...@yahoo.com. I usually can't find
> my way back to wherever I post messages.
>
> Thank you...and happy holidays to everyone!
And to you as well!
Good luck, and let me know if I can be of any further help!
Peace,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Thomas Carwile Head "Being properly distracted for a moment
M.A. Candidate (Nonresident) is child's play. Being rightly
Humanities External Degree distracted for a lifetime is an art."
California State University,
Dominguez Hills -- Douglas Adams
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail t...@netdoor.com / http://www2.netdoor.com/~tlh / ICQ 20364804
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tradezzz
I first learned about California Coast through their ad in Money Magazine.
I am looking at that school for my spouse. The degree is very inexpensive.
Expense is one major consideration, because of our financial situation.
Many of these online schools, the ones with regional accreditation, want to
charge traditional school prices (e.g., $1,000 per course) and kill you with
other nonsense fees which are ridiculously high (hundreds or thousands of
dollars). As far as I am concerned, they are a RIPOFF and should be told
so. They are saving HUGE amounts of money by not having full-time staff, a
real school building with multiple classrooms, no cost for supplies, etc.,
and they still want to stick it to the rest of us.
Pete wrote in message <3853b75...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>>What are you guys' opinions with regard to California Coast University?
>>
>>Same question with regard to New Promise and Bellevue. In addition, does
>>anyone know if the degrees conferred show "New Promise" as the granting
>>institution, or the name of the actual school? Also, is it true that
>>Bellevue actually holds regional accreditation?
>>
>>Please respond to me directly at trad...@yahoo.com. I usually can't find
>>my way back to wherever I post messages.
>>
>>Thank you...and happy holidays to everyone!
>>
tradezzz
According to Bellevue, they are accredited by the North Central Association
of Colleges and Schools Commission on Institutions of Higher Education.
Lawrene France
less for their dl bachelors than Cal Coast, as I recall. When I was in the
market for a MBA, I looked into Cal Coast. They operate out of a small
(maybe 4000 sq/ft) windowless gray building in a bad part of Santa Ana, CA.
I live near there, so went down to talk to them, and was UN impressed with
the QUALITY of their standards.
If you just want to use the degree for ego stroking, this may be the route
to go, although be warned that if you decide to pursue a higher degree, or
teach, the Cal Coast degree will not be transferrable, and you will have to
go the RA route.
tradezzz <trad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:831348$r8t$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...
Pete
If cost is the major concern, Regents College can be less expensive
than degree and diploma mills and traditional schools that offer
distance programs. By investigating CLEPs, DANTEs, RCEs, GRE Subject
tests, and inexpensive distance education courses via the links in my
previous post. With this option you may be able to come in under
$4000 for a bachelors degree.
As far as trusting ads in the back of newspapers and magazines, many
institutions whose only intention is to rook you out of your savings
advertised in the back of two of the most highly regarded publications
around: The Economist and Business Week. These schools are the true
rip offs.
Take it easy.
Pete
Regents College BS (math) '98
On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:14:17 -0800, "tradezzz" <trad...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
JMcAulay
Pete posted, in part:
>California Coast is state approved and the usefulness of a degree from
>this school *outside of CA* is doubtful. Recently, pursuing a degree
>for self-esteem purposes exclusively has become a topic in a.e.d, if
>this is your goal, then CCU may be for you. Although some in the
>group pussy foot around calling it a 'junk school', practically no
>one will recommend it as forcefully as they recommend a regionally
>accredited college. If CCU is such a solid state school, then the
>time is nigh for it to seek RA; it owes this much to its present and
>former students.
First, just what is the "usefulness" of any degree? When I shot through
Regents, I wanted a degree because I had far outdistanced myself
professionally, started my own business, sold it, and then figured I'd
never get another reasonably good job/ position/whatever without a
degree. Having decided to get a regionally accredited degree was
a good move, because I then began a completely different career as
a teacher (rather enjoyed it). So the use I made of the degree was
not exactly the use I had intended: it went from "impress the interviewer"
to "gotta have this to qualify." There are likely a big bunch of other
reasons why some would consider a degree "useful." As always,
whatever suits YOU is good for YOU. Just don't be so cocky that you
think you have all the possibilities ("uses") figured out in advance.
Second, Cal Coast will likely *never* gain accreditation by the WASC without
major change, simply because their student/faculty ratio is something like
twenty times higher than that of the average RA institution, last time I
checked.
Third, a mention that there are many (does anyone know the number?)
licensed Clinical Psychologists in California with a Cal Coast PhD as their
terminal degree. As far as the California Business and Professions code
goes, and again this is as of the last time I checked, a Cal Coast PhD
provides
the same qualification as one from any RA institution. That covers
professional
practice *within California*, and there is no reciprocity with any other
state in
this regard, as far as I know. But, gee, folks, does everyone remember how
many people live in California? Somehow, the caution "well, unfortunately,
you'll never be able to practice anywhere else" seems to be sort of hollow.
Millions of people would not want to be anywhere else. If you're one of
those,
well, maybe some Cal Coast degrees might be not so bad, after all.
But it is definitely NOT regionally accredited, and in my mind, it may NEVER
be.
This raises a real flag re bachelor's degrees. I have yet to see anybody
post the
opinion that a non-RA bachelor's provides advantages, except in limited
technical
areas. I share that view. But, obvious from the above, I can see
practical -- albeit
limited -- reasons to get a *higher* degree from a non-RA school.
Regards,
John
tradezzz
was from a non-RA university (?).
>That psych PhDs from CA state approved schools can sit for the X, Y,
>and Z state boards (you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
>CA Baby Bar for state approved schools) only tells us that (a) we
>
>Regards,
>
>Pete
>Regents BS '98
Tom Head
> I thought you couldn't sit for other State's psychology boards if your
> Ph.D. was from a non-RA university (?).
California is, to the best of my knowledge, the one "on the books" exception.
tradezzz
mine who were attending Linoln (in San Jose, CA) had to take the Baby Bar.
If it is not a requirement, it must be a fairly recent change.
>For the record, California accredited schools are not required to *take*
the
>Baby Bar. According to the Cal. State Bar, only correspondence schools
are.
>
>Larry
John Bear
whaleb...@SPAMatt.net (Pete) wrote:
> >Second, Cal Coast will likely *never* gain accreditation ...
>
> I doubt they'd pursue it; they're probably a pretty big cash cow
> without it.
Let us recall that Cal Coast did claim accreditation from the unrecognized
National Association for Private Nontraditional Schools and Colleges for
quite a few years, and were not always as clear about the unrecognized
status as one might wish. Only after NAPNSC was rejected for the 6th time
by the Department of Education, and their director, Dr.Heusser wrote an
extremely angry and insulting letter to the key woman at the Dept. of Ed
(with copies to his entire rolodex) did California Coast and California
Pacific voluntarily withdraw, believing (as I do) that NAPNSC had burned
its bridges, fore, aft, port,and starboard.
--
John Bear, who sells Bears' Guide for 1/3 off ($20; checks
only) or bookpricer.com for best on-line prices.
John Bear
Tom Head <t...@netdoor.com> wrote:
> > I thought you couldn't sit for other State's psychology boards if your
> > Ph.D. was from a non-RA university (?).
>
> California is, to the best of my knowledge, the one "on the books"
exception.
For some years, Colorado was the only state willing to accept
California-approved psychology degrees for state licensing, but I haven't
checked that for a few years.
Scott Porter
Bar accredited schools do not have to take the baby bar, California State Approved
and correspondence schools do have to take the baby bar. So, in other words, as long
as the school is accredited by the ABA or state bar, the test is not required.
Here's an article about it from the SF Gate:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1995/04/21/PN32822.DTL
Perhaps Lincoln is approved by the state but not accredited by the state bar.
Scott
Larry McQueary wrote:
> Yes, we* are sure - according to the 1998 Baby Bar results I have sitting to the
> left of my keyboard:
>
> "Regularly enrolled students at ABA and California Accredited Law Schools are
> exempt from the requirement to take the First Year Law Students' Examination
> (FYLX)."
>
> Now, of course, this doesn't mean that students CAN'T take it, and I suppose
> that individual institutions could REQUIRE students to take it, if they wanted
> to. However, in Lincoln's case, I see that only 2 people from the San Jose
> campus took the Baby Bar in all of 1998. Neither one passed. The Sacramento
> campus had 3 takers, 2 of which passed. I'm guessing it's not mandatory, or
> else they have a VERY low enrollment ;-)
>
> Perhaps 4 years ago, Lincoln was not California approved? <shrug> Dunno.
>
> Larry
> *one of us must have a mouse in his/her pocket. *<:0)
>
> tradezzz <trad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:831qhs$3p8$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
Larry McQueary
Unfortunately, the many degree mills that exist (i.e. NON-accredited schools
with woefully low standards) make a buck for the very reason you state - many
people see distance learning from regionally accredited institutions as either
too expensive or too rigorous. It's a shame.
You may want to check the following databases:
www.petersons.com/dlearn
www.newpromise.com
www.gnacademy.org
Good luck.
Larry
tradezzz <trad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:831348$r8t$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...
> Thanks, Pete!
>
> I first learned about California Coast through their ad in Money Magazine.
> I am looking at that school for my spouse. The degree is very inexpensive.
> Expense is one major consideration, because of our financial situation.
>
> Many of these online schools, the ones with regional accreditation, want to
> charge traditional school prices (e.g., $1,000 per course) and kill you with
> other nonsense fees which are ridiculously high (hundreds or thousands of
> dollars). As far as I am concerned, they are a RIPOFF and should be told
> so. They are saving HUGE amounts of money by not having full-time staff, a
> real school building with multiple classrooms, no cost for supplies, etc.,
> and they still want to stick it to the rest of us.
>
>
>
> Pete wrote in message <3853b75...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
> >Mr. tradezzz,
> >
> >California Coast is state approved and the usefulness of a degree from
> >this school *outside of CA* is doubtful. Recently, pursuing a degree
> >for self-esteem purposes exclusively has become a topic in a.e.d, if
> >this is your goal, then CCU may be for you. Although some in the
> >group pussy foot around calling it a 'junk school', practically no
> >one will recommend it as forcefully as they recommend a regionally
> >accredited college. If CCU is such a solid state school, then the
> >time is nigh for it to seek RA; it owes this much to its present and
> >former students.
> >
Pete
John wrote:
>just what is the "usefulness" of any degree?
I'd hazard to guess that the majority of inquiries to this group are
not by people who have outdistanced themselves. I know I certainly
hadn't when I started lurking here in 1995. I was going to be getting
out of the Navy in 3 years and although I'd heard about Regents, what
I read here helped cement my decision.
>There are likely a big bunch of other
>reasons why some would consider a degree "useful." As always,
>whatever suits YOU is good for YOU. Just don't be so cocky that you
>think you have all the possibilities ("uses") figured out in advance.
I don't believe I mentioned any specific reasons *why* a degree would
be useful and I don't see where I purport to have the 'uses' figured
out. There are certain tacit assumptions when people post here - job
requirements, graduate school, self-esteem, etc.
>Second, Cal Coast will likely *never* gain accreditation ...
I doubt they'd pursue it; they're probably a pretty big cash cow
without it.
>That covers professional practice *within California*, and there
>is no reciprocity with any other state in this regard, as far as I
>know. But, gee, folks, does everyone remember how many people
>live in California? Somehow, the caution "well, unfortunately,
>you'll never be able to practice anywhere else" seems to be
>sort of hollow. Millions of people would not want to be anywhere
>else. If you're one of those, well, maybe some Cal Coast degrees
>might be not so bad, after all.
Since maybe about 90% of the US population lives outside of CA and
because people don't post their residency and relocation preferences
here, "well, unfortunately, you'll never be able to practice anywhere
else" has justifiably become the a.e.d mantra regarding CA state
approval over the years. After all, this is alt.education.distance -
why would we unconditionally recommend pursuing distance learning from
and institution within your state of residence?
That psych PhDs from CA state approved schools can sit for the X, Y,
and Z state boards (you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
CA Baby Bar for state approved schools) only tells us that (a) we
should think twice about seeking individual and family counseling in
CA or (b) maybe state approved schools beefed up their programs in
this one discipline to attract applicants. It doesn't tell us why CA
state approval, absent accreditation by a body recognized by the US
Department of Education, should be any better than HI, AK, ND, or SD.
The only state that has the power of an accrediting body is NY.
While I didn't make the distinction between undergraduate and graduate
education (it wasn't specified in the original post), I would
recommend regional accreditation pretty much across the board with
the caveats being DETC for technical and nontechnical trades, and
whatever body (I don't know the name) is recognized by the DoEd to
accredit bible colleges.
Larry McQueary
> I thought you couldn't sit for other State's psychology boards if your Ph.D.
> was from a non-RA university (?).
No, it doesn't much matter whether the University is regionally accredited or
not, in that case - at least in California, all that matters is that the
University is California-approved. There's a guy named David Williams that
occasionally posts here - he's a psychologist, and perhaps he can explain
better.
> >That psych PhDs from CA state approved schools can sit for the X, Y,
> >and Z state boards (you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
> >CA Baby Bar for state approved schools) only tells us that (a) we
> >
Larry McQueary
Pete <whaleb...@SPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:38544a70...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>
[ snip ]
> That psych PhDs from CA state approved schools can sit for the X, Y,
> and Z state boards (you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
> CA Baby Bar for state approved schools) only tells us that (a) we
For the record, California accredited schools are not required to *take* the
Larry McQueary
left of my keyboard:
"Regularly enrolled students at ABA and California Accredited Law Schools are
exempt from the requirement to take the First Year Law Students' Examination
(FYLX)."
Now, of course, this doesn't mean that students CAN'T take it, and I suppose
that individual institutions could REQUIRE students to take it, if they wanted
to. However, in Lincoln's case, I see that only 2 people from the San Jose
campus took the Baby Bar in all of 1998. Neither one passed. The Sacramento
campus had 3 takers, 2 of which passed. I'm guessing it's not mandatory, or
else they have a VERY low enrollment ;-)
Perhaps 4 years ago, Lincoln was not California approved? <shrug> Dunno.
Larry
*one of us must have a mouse in his/her pocket. *<:0)
tradezzz <trad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:831qhs$3p8$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
> Are we sure about that? About 4 years ago or so, a couple of friends of
> mine who were attending Linoln (in San Jose, CA) had to take the Baby Bar.
> If it is not a requirement, it must be a fairly recent change.
>
>
>
Larry McQueary
I'm annotating the number of Baby Bar takers from each category (both June and
October sessions) in parens ().
1. California law schools approved by the American Bar Association (35)
2. California law schools accredited by the committee but NOT approved by the
American Bar Association (109)
3. California law schools NOT accredited by the committee AND NOT approved by
the American bar Association (405)
4. Out-of-state law schools approved by the American Bar Association (3)
5. Out of state law schools not approved by the A.B.A. (0)
6. Correspondence Law Schools (303)
7. Law ofices and judges' chambers study (11)
8. Not classifiable (13)
Lincoln Law School (both the Sacramento and San Jose 'campuses') is listed under
category 2, schools that are accredited by the committee (i.e. the Cal State
Bar) but NOT by the ABA.
I'm not just shooting in the dark here ;-)
Larry
Scott Porter <por...@soforum.com> wrote in message
news:385473FA...@soforum.com...
> I believe that there are four types of law schools in California: ABA and CA
State
> Bar accredited schools do not have to take the baby bar, California State
Approved
> and correspondence schools do have to take the baby bar. So, in other words,
as long
> as the school is accredited by the ABA or state bar, the test is not required.
> Here's an article about it from the SF Gate:
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1995/04/21/PN3
2822.DTL
>
> Perhaps Lincoln is approved by the state but not accredited by the state bar.
>
> Scott
>
> Larry McQueary wrote:
>
Russ Blahetka
schools like it) and its PhD?
A Dissertation
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Russ Blahetka
http://www.blahetka.com/school.shtml
Learn the rules then break some.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Sun, 12 Dec 1999, Larry McQueary wrote:
> Excellent response, Pete. I'll add that any interested in Cal. Coast should
> look up a recent post by Steve Montelli, in which he attests to the low
> standards of Cal. Coast's DBA program, and describes his hasty retreat from this
> school.
>
> I would go so far as to say that the usefulness of a Cal. Coast degree even
> INSIDE California is going to be doubtful (IMHO).
>
> Larry
>
> Pete <whale...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3853b75...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Larry McQueary
Coast, one could safely assume some things about the dissertations.
Russ Blahetka <blah...@blahetka.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.991213...@shell9.ba.best.com...
Rich Douglas
required to sit for the "Baby Bar" and pass before proceeding to the rest of
their studies. This is true whether the school is residential or
correspondence. There are no correspondence schools approved by the State Bar
(nor are there any accredited by ABA). Listening, Concord?
Rich Douglas
Larry McQueary wrote:
> Pete <whaleb...@SPAMatt.net> wrote in message
> news:38544a70...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> >
>
> [ snip ]
>
> > That psych PhDs from CA state approved schools can sit for the X, Y,
> > and Z state boards (you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
> > CA Baby Bar for state approved schools) only tells us that (a) we
>
tradezzz
are for the California Boards. There CURT response was that they don't keep
stats. (Bells, red flags...). They did, however, upon my asking, provide
me with the phone number for the California Board. They are going to send
me an info packet addressing the requirements to sit for the examination.
Larry McQueary wrote in message ...
Larry McQueary
When I say California accredited, both here and in every other post in this
thread - I mean *approved by the California State Bar*. The Baby Bar results
classify these as 'accredited by the committee' [ of the Cal. State Bar that
oversees such thing ], and hence I have used the word 'accredited'.
In other words - yes, that's what I said.
Larry
Rich Douglas <rcdo...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:385552F7...@erols.com...
Larry McQueary
Larry
tradezzz <trad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:833k1g$iak$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net...
Steve Levicoff
> I thought you couldn't sit for other State's psychology boards if your Ph.D.
> was from a non-RA university (?).
Not only is this often correct, in *most* states you cannot sit for the
psychology boards unless the Ph.D. is from an APA-approved psychology
program. There are exceptions, such as the newer Psy.D. programs that
have come along; if they are offered by reputable universities, they
must graduate at least one class before becoming approved. However, in
professional psychology programs, APA approval is even more important
than, yea, regional accreditation.
--
,-~~-.___.
/ | ' \
( ) 0
\_/-, ,----'
==== //
/ \-'~; /~~~(O)
/ __/~| / |
=( _____| (_________|
------------------------------
Steve Levicoff
levi...@ix.netcom.com
http://levicoff.tripod.com
------------------------------
JMcAulay
Pete wrote, in part, in message
<38544a70...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>(you didn't bring up the dismal pass rates on the
>CA Baby Bar for state approved schools)
Then again, if you are one who appreciates *real* tragedy,
check pass rates for Chapman University the year before
they became an ABA-approved institution.
Things like that make me wonder about a lot of stuff....
Regards,
John
JMcAulay
Larry McQueary posted, in part:
>For the record, California accredited schools are not required to *take*
the
>Baby Bar. According to the Cal. State Bar, only correspondence schools
are.
Larry, those two sentences are not mutually consistent. Let's leave out the
word
"accredited" for a moment and look at it this way: a student of any law
school
which is "blessed" by neither the ABA nor by the California Bar Association
must
take the California "Baby Bar" exam, whether it is a correspondence school
or a
chair-warming facility. Approval by any State of California agency, such as
the
Private Post-Secondary folks, is irrelevant.
I don't know if someone else came up with this statement, and I'm not going
to
read every post in this mile-long thread. I have to sleep sometime.
Regards,
John
Steve Levicoff
> For the record, California accredited schools are not required to *take* the
> Baby Bar. According to the Cal. State Bar, only correspondence schools are.
In my time (whatever that was), resident law students were also required
to take teh Baby Bar if their school was not approved by the California
State Bar. (At least in the late 80's, this was the case at Simon
Greenleaf, which had a totally residential program and which had not yet
been taken over by Trinity International U. I know of no change to this
rule - it applies to both residential and correspondence programs.)
Steve Levicoff
> After having just posted some responses regarding, DL, I now have an actual
> question.
>
> What are you guys' opinions with regard to California Coast University?
Well, well . . . After a few days absence and having read the entire
California Coast thread thus far, I notice that no one has given the
answer that I am about to give . . .
California Coast University is a degree mill. Yes, there will be some
who say something like, "It's not always respected, but if an
unaccredited degree will meet your needs, it is a school to consider . .
." or some such, but believe me, it's a degree mill.
There now. I've said it for years, and prophet that I am, I will
tultimately be proven correct. (By the way, I loved Lawrie Miller's
comment about the "gray windowless building." Lawrie is quite correct.
I, too, have visited their "campus" at 7th & Main Streets in beautiful
downtown Santa Ana - such as it is - and for a university, it's a joke.)
Seriously, though, if you are considering California Coast, keep in mind
that most of the responses to your inquiry, while soft-pedaled, contain
the word "But . . ." And that if you select *any* school which people
describe by adding "But" to their comments, chances are that you're
choosing the wrong school. There are so many good distance programs out
there that don't require a "But;" perhaps it's time to consider them
instead of one in which people like me will laugh their asses off at
your degree.
JMcAulay
John Bear posted, in part:
>> >Second, Cal Coast will likely *never* gain accreditation ...
>Let us recall that Cal Coast did claim accreditation from the unrecognized
>National Association for Private Nontraditional Schools and Colleges for
>quite a few years, and were not always as clear about the unrecognized
>status as one might wish. Only after NAPNSC was rejected for the 6th time
>by the Department of Education, and their director, Dr.Heusser wrote an
>extremely angry and insulting letter to the key woman at the Dept. of Ed
>(with copies to his entire rolodex) did California Coast and California
>Pacific voluntarily withdraw, believing (as I do) that NAPNSC had burned
>its bridges, fore, aft, port,and starboard.
>
The statement about CCU probably never gaining accreditation was mine,
and it serves me right for repeating myself without all the caveats in a
post.
Earlier in that same post, I mentioned CCU's student-faculty ratio, which is
around four hundred to one (last time I checked), and offered that as a big
reason why they could not gain *regional* accreditation. And that's what I
meant when I wrote "Cal Coast will likely *never* gain accreditation "
REGIONAL, that is. I'm almost certain that the Marge of the Mojave
Accreditation and Chili Bean Cook-off Gesellschaft would sign 'em up
in a minute.
Regards,
John
who promises to be more careful...or at least try
John Bear
> And, if Steve Montelli's story is any indication of the general rigor at Cal
> Coast, one could safely assume some things about the dissertations.
On one visit to Cal Coast, when it was owned and run by its founder,
Thomas Neal, I noted, in the library room, some dissertations on open
shelves and others in locked glass-fronted cases. I asked Dr.* Neal about
this. In a burst of candor, he told me that the ones in the locked cases
were those they were embarrassed about, but had to keep on display for
when students came to visit.
John Bear
______
*Two Ph.D.'s from California Coast
tradezzz
Steve, I'll spare you the laugh. I already have a BA and a doctorate, both
from REAL, mortar & brick, well-regarded schools in California.
I was considering CCU for my spouse, then I decided that while I was at it,
I might as well look into their Psych. Ph.D. program for myself, which would
qualify me to take the California Boards and open private practice as a
psychologist (my BA is in Clinical Psych.). But BEFORE doing anything I set
out to surf the Net and see what I could dig up on them, if anything. Well,
needless to say, I discovered that the school is not well-regarded, which is
an under-statement.
At this point, for my spouse, we are favoring Regents College, Upper Iowa
University, Thomas Edison State College, and Charter Oak State College. I
like schools that have "State College" as part of their name because it
sounds more "legitimate," so we will look closely at the latter two. We are
awaiting info packets.
>There are so many good distance programs out
>there that don't require a "But;" perhaps it's time to consider them
>instead of one in which people like me will laugh their asses off at
>your degree.>
Steve Levicoff
pete
What schools tradezzz? Where ya from? How about a first name?
...even a fake one (sorry, Leland and Stan are taken)
Pete
-who took a couple courses from a click & mortar school en route to a
BS.
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:49:59 -0800, "tradezzz" <trad...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Kevin Stewart
Kevin
pete wrote in message <38564d7d...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>What schools tradezzz? Where ya from? How about a first name?
>...even a fake one (sorry, Leland and Stan are taken)
snipped
Larry McQueary
John
Please see my other posts in this thread. I don't know how many times I have to
reword this before people stop arguing with me.
In any post in this thread in which I have mentioned 'California approved' or
'California accredited' in reference to a law school, I meant specifically
CALIFORNIA STATE BAR APPROVED/ACCREDITED only, exclusively, totally, completely,
and so on. I have never, for one moment, considered the California state
licensure to have any meaning or bearing in this thread.
I am going by what I received from the California State Bar, in which the only
accreditation or approval that they refer to is THEIR OWN. Please, folks, I'm
tired of repeating myself.
I'll be happy to post this about 10,000 more times if I have to.
Larry
JMcAulay <jo...@mcaulay.net> wrote in message news:3855c...@news.qnet.com...
>
> Larry McQueary posted, in part:
>
>
> >For the record, California accredited schools are not required to *take*
> the
> >Baby Bar. According to the Cal. State Bar, only correspondence schools
> are.
>
>
Macken
that the exams include essay questions as well as multiple
choice. There is also a doctoral (essay) exam at the end of the
program.
While it is possible to complete each CCU course in 3-4 weeks,
a more desirable rate of progress would be at least 6-8 weeks
per course, so that the material could be better absorbed.
(Learning, not speed, should be the main objective here). A
student with little or no transfer credit would take an
appreciable amount of time to complete the program.
For the record, I withdrew from the CCU program because it
wasn't for me. But if a California approved degree is all one
needs, CCU will suffice.
Macken
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Tom Head
> In regards to the Cal Coast DBA, Mr. Montelli did not mention that
> the exams include essay questions as well as multiple choice. There
> is also a doctoral (essay) exam at the end of the program.
How long are these essays?
> While it is possible to complete each CCU course in 3-4 weeks,
> a more desirable rate of progress would be at least 6-8 weeks
> per course, so that the material could be better absorbed.
Why not absorb the material after passing the exams? Wouldn't that be
cheaper? (And if one can pass the exams without fully absorbing the
material, what does that say about the quality of the curriculum?)
> (Learning, not speed, should be the main objective here). A student
Learning is free, though (except maybe for the occasional overdue fine);
you're paying for the degree. If the degree program doesn't demand enough
of this aforementioned learning in its actual requirements to suggest that
its graduates are competent, then it's the program that's flawed -- not
the student's approach.
> with little or no transfer credit would take an appreciable amount of
> time to complete the program.
At three weeks per course, taking on two courses concurrently, one could
(assuming three hour courses) earn 30 hours of credit per semester. Are
you really saying that it would possible, at CCU, to earn an MBA in as
little as 15 weeks?
Peace,
_____ _ _
|_ _| | | | Tom C. Head
| | | |_| | http://www2.netdoor.com/~tlh
| | | _ |
|_| |_| |_| ICQ 20364804
Steve Montelli
> In regards to the Cal Coast DBA, Mr. Montelli did not mention
>that the exams include essay questions as well as multiple
>choice. There is also a doctoral (essay) exam at the end of the
>program.
>
>a more desirable rate of progress would be at least 6-8 weeks
>per course, so that the material could be better absorbed.
>appreciable amount of time to complete the program.
>
>wasn't for me. But if a California approved degree is all one
>needs, CCU will suffice.
>
>Macken
Which Cal Coast did you take classes from? Not the Cal Coast that I did.
None, as in not a one, of the three classes I completed in the DBA program
included any type of essay questions. All of the classes I participated in
were in 1999, maybe the standards have diminished since your time there. Don't
get me wrong, I still may finish the DBA at Cal Coast. I've already spent a
large chunk of cash with the school and generally like my experience with
them. Is the school academically inferior? Of course it is. There's no debate
on that point.
Let's chat about 6-8 weeks to finish a class. I would guess if you're
dyslexic or unable to read beyond a 3rd grade level a class would take 6-8
weeks. It took me no more than 2 weeks per class and that was working on it
just in the evenings. I'm certainly not an academic purist and wish I had it
in me to grind through an RA program. I admire those that can handle the
financial and time barriers that must be hurdled, but when all is said and
done that DBA will still look damn good after my name :)
Maken, why wasn't the program for you?
Steve Montelli
Macken
$UV2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
stevem...@earthlink.net (Steve Montelli) wrote:
>
>Which Cal Coast did you take classes from? Not the Cal Coast
that I did.
>None, as in not a one, of the three classes I completed in the
DBA program
>included any type of essay questions. All of the classes I
participated in
>were in 1999, maybe the standards have diminished since your
time there.
(I assume they still have the written doctoral exam at the end
of the program).
> Is the school academically inferior? Of course it is. There's
no debate
>on that point.
No, there isn't.
Let's chat about 6-8 weeks to finish a class. I would guess if
you're
>dyslexic or unable to read beyond a 3rd grade level a class
would take 6-8
>weeks.
Again, the standards have apparently slipped. My original
estimate should have been 4 weeks at the most to learn the
material thoroughly. Bear in mind that I withdrew from the
program before starting the first course, but I did see the
course materials.
>Maken, why wasn't the program for you?
Because I decided to pursue an RA program instead, when the
time was right. (My refund was very high because I withdrew
early).
Macken
PS Remember, I stated in my original post that CCU would SUFFICE
if one needed a California approved degree. I doubt that CCU
would want to use that statement in their brochure.
Macken
called CCU admissions counselor (Mr. Hedrick) inquiring about
essay assignments in the DBA program. He replied that some of
the courses do have essay assignments in addition to the
multiple choice questions. (Not extremely arduous, but
something). The written doctoral examination (at program's end)
is also in place.
I understand that you transferred several courses (9,I believe)
from C Pacific U. This probably explains why you haven't seen
any coursework involving essay writing thus far. (Wouldn't it be
a kick if the essay work you would have done at CCU is already
contained within your transfer credits? Not really, I guess).
Best Wishes
Macken