Legality of LIAR - this might be of interest to Dr Hughes
Dionysus
circles. I think I might be able to shed some light on the legal issue
upon which he so desperately seeks enlightenment.
Dr Hughes contends that he was sold an honorary doctorate from the
London Institute for Applied Research by Dr John Bear, its founder,
for $25 in 1972 (thus becoming one of the first to receive such an
award). Dr Hughes enquires as to the legality of said degree.
I write this from the perspective of a British citizen. LIAR was
founded in England in 1972 (Dr Bear has written that he was living
there at that time). I am assuming that Dr Hughes' LIAR doctorate must
have been issued from London if it was issued in 1972. It should
therefore be considered a British degree rather than an American
degree.
In Britain, until the Education Reform Act of 1988, any body or
individual could award degrees completely legally. There was no
requirement that a degree-awarding body should have corporate status,
be licensed by anyone or submit to any regulations whatsoever. Degrees
could be issued by a *joke* institution, a private individual, a
company, an university, etc. etc. All carried equal legal validity.
*Academic* validity is of course a different matter, but I will leave
that to be debated on another occasion. This situation changed with
effect from 1 April 1989, with the award of British degrees regulated,
and the word *university* protected by law.
As a result of this, a degree from LIAR issued before 1 April 1989
from Britain has absolutely the same legal standing as any other
British degree issued before 1 April 1989. The British governmental
authorities have issued statements to this effect in respect of the
degrees of the Sussex College of Technology issued before then (one
holder of a degree from SCT states that he has a "Letter on file from
the United Kingdom Department for Education and Employment stating
that this degree was granted prior to the Education Reform Act of
1988, Sections 214-217, and had an equal standing of all such degrees
conferred in the United Kingdom prior to this date"). A holder of a
LIAR degree issued before the cut-off date in Britain could presumably
obtain a similar legal statement from the British Department for
Education and Skills.
On this basis, I am inclined to believe that a LIAR doctorate issued
in 1972, given that it stands as a legally valid British degree, would
be legal for use in Oregon, or anywhere else for that matter. As ever
with honorary degrees it would be essential to make the nature of the
degree absolutely clear in all circumstances to avoid the possibility
of misunderstanding, or allegations of passing oneself off as the
holder of an earned doctorate.
However, if Oregon accepts other pre-1989 British degrees for use in
that state there is no rationale for excluding LIAR, unless Oregon
proposes to undertake retrospective investigations into the standards
applied by the many and varied British institutions that were awarding
degrees before that time but ceased to do so upon the advent of the
ERA.
From its published list, it would appear that Oregon doesn't do that
at the moment, as no past or present UK-authorised institutions (as
distinct from those operating from UK on the basis of overseas
degree-awarding authority post-1989) appear on the list. It does,
however, say that the list isn't exhaustive. The logical thing to do
would perhaps be for Dr Hughes to ask the authorities in Oregon for a
ruling on the issue if he intends to use his degree there. If he
doesn't, then I don't quite see the point of his enquiry.
What I have said above should be easily verifiable with the relevant
British authorities - and will thus be seen to reflect no legal
discredit upon either Dr Bear or Dr Hughes. But it's simply my $0.02 -
if you know anything to the contrary I'd be interested to learn more.
Incidentally, I believe that the Dutchman who bought the remaining
LIAR certificates from Dr Bear has now changed the name on the
certificates to the London Institute of Applied Science. Perhaps he
has now sold out of the Bear-originated certificates and took the
opportunity for a change of name when printing the new ones.
So, Dr Hughes, if you want to hear what Dr Bear has to say, he's
stated his terms and they look pretty reasonable to me. Let the group
know what he says if you take up his offer - I'd be genuinely
interested. Hope I've helped answer your question in the meantime.
Enjoy your life and don't take these things too seriously - it's only
an honorary doctorate, after all.
With all best wishes,
D.
*Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no
more; they know nothing about themselves, and they pass no judgement
upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our
own guide and ruler, Reason.*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Marcus Aurelius
John Bear
Thank you for that very interesting bit of history, analysis, and
opinion.
Since our family moved to England in June 1972, and our "Phony Honorary
Degrees for Sale" ad ran -- in American only -- a few months earlier, it
is possible that the Hughes
certificate was issued in America. I have no way of knowing.
If indeed any British authority regarded it as valid, we'd have had the
amusing
situation where the seller of a LIAR certificate insisted and insists it
is worthless
(hence its listing, always, in the Diploma Mills chapter of my books),
while
the authorities would say otherwise.
To the best of my knowledge, Oregon does not list any entities that only
offer
honorary degrees on its list, if indeed there are any such organisations.
John Bear
______________
* Or might you be one of the others? Exiguus is a sort of favourite,
since he might
actually be on one of the farflung branches of my wife's family tree.
bigolehippie
Exactly. It is an honorary degree so it has no status, no place in
academia or employment. Honorary degrees are listed on CV's or
resumes under awards or other notations of "honors". Even before the
glut of fake degrees starting in the late 60's education on resumes,
CV's or employment applications were expected to be EARNED DEGREES.
Listing a "legal" unearned degree on a resume has been cause for
dismissal and even prosecution for fraud with the federal government
and in most states for years. The INTENT to defraud is the act and
the problem. Since honorary degrees don't meet the standard to begin
with then this whole diatribe has been worthless.
Lets talk about honesty and trust -- starting with identifying oneself
and leaving petty self soiling and other baseness elsewhere if one
must... and Please do not call him Dr. Hughes.
Patrick Morris, Ph.D.
Some 1
of it:
> On this basis, I am inclined to believe
> that a LIAR doctorate issued in 1972,
> given that it stands as a legally valid
> British degree, would be legal for use in
> Oregon, or anywhere else for that
> matter.
************************
From the Oregon Administrative Rules
(2) In order to be intrinsically valid in Oregon as a public credential
usable for general academic or professional purposes, under ORS 348.609
a claimed degree must have been awarded by a school that:
(a) Has accreditation recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or
has the foreign equivalent of such accreditation; or
(b) Has been approved through the Office of Degree Authorization to
offer and confer degrees in Oregon;
(c) Is located in the United States and has been found by the commission
acting through the Office of Degree Authorization to meet standards of
academic quality comparable to those of an institution located in the
United States that has accreditation, recognized by the U.S. Department
of Education, to offer degrees of the type and level claimed by the
person, or
(d) Has obtained from the Office of Degree Authorization a religious
exemption for a degree with an approved title in theology or a religious
occupation.
[Here is how "the foreign equivalent of such accreditation" is defined]
(7) "Foreign equivalent of such accreditation" means authorization by a
non-U.S. government found by ODA to have standards at least as stringent
as those required by U.S. approved accrediting agencies at the same
degree level. This determination may be made through one or more of the
following methods at ODA's discretion:
(a) Direct investigation of foreign standards;
(b) Reliance on an evaluation and determination made by the National
Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers; or
(c) Evaluation of the transferability of courses and degrees earned in
the foreign country to accredited Oregon institutions at similar degree
levels.
(8) "Academic Standards" means those standards in 583-030-0035 or the
equivalent standards of an accrediting body that relate to admission
requirements, length of program, content of curriculum, award of credit
and faculty qualifications.
Les Center
Regarding Some1's post...
Well, I guess that pretty much answers that question.
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james1
Let's put this Oregon thing in its place. It is not a national or
regional accreditor. It only speaks for Oregon. Attempts to put
legality or a lack of legality on a school would apply only In Oregon.
California recognizes Approved schools and this could be quoted just as
accurately as Oregon. OREGON speaks only for Oregon and their opinion
stops at their borders. Other states have their own views, and these
differ greatly!!!
James C.
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John Hughes
I did not *disappear* from the internet, nor have I *changed my name*
as you implied. I have been busy reading internet postings which can
only be described as a MOUNTAIN of negative publicity about you and
the small group of people who defend you.
I came to this newsgroup unaware of the hatred a great deal of people
have for you. I am genuine, I have met you and my name IS John Hughes.
Last time we met, you may have remembered that I commented on how
much you sounded like the American actor Donald Sutherland.
As an ex customer of yours (you sold me a Doctorate Degree), I really
expected a more courteous response from you. This was not the case.
Instead, you accused me of being someone else, using a fake name and
refused to address me as Dr, at title which YOU assured me I was
legally entitled to use when you sold me the degree.
You have watched as your *supporters* attempted to make fun of me and
accuse me of not being called John Hughes.
As I am new to the internet, I came here to this forum on the
understanding that it was frequented by academics. Nothing could be
farther from the truth. This group seems to be frequented by a small
*clique* of people who exist only to lambaste anybody who has a
question or opinion that YOU Dr John Bear do not wish to hear.
You have acted in a wholly unethical manner not befitting one who
aspires to the description *academic*. I am appalled.
You have acted inconsistently in this public forum and entirely
without honour.
My last week of research about you shows this is not atypical of you
and your supporters.
I shall not be returning to this newsgroup Dr Bear, but I will leave
you with this warning.
My name is Dr John Hughes. If you post just ONE more message
implying that I am not who I say I am, I will gladly sue you for
libel.
P.S.
This warning applies to YOU only Dr John Bear, I am not interested in
what your anonymous *clique* has to say. Even though they (like you)
all work from PO Boxes, I know where YOU are.
P.P.S.
My thanks to those few genuine posters who have posted real
information about Oregon and its laws concerning degrees such as the
one Dr John Bear sold to me.
Thomas Nixon
John Hughes wrote:
>
>My name is Dr John Hughes. If you post just ONE more message
>implying that I am not who I say I am, I will gladly sue you for
>libel.
>
>P.S.
>
>This warning applies to YOU only Dr John Bear, I am not interested in
>what your anonymous *clique* has to say. Even though they (like you)
>all work from PO Boxes, I know where YOU are.
>
You are not Dr Anything, let alone Dr John Hughes. You are also someone
incredibly ignorant (surprise, surprise!) of libel laws.
I will gladly provide my street address if you would like to send the
legal documents to me. I assume, of course, that your address will also
likely be on those documents.
And, thankfully for you, I typed this real slow so you would understand.
Clearly, thinking is not your strong suit.
Tom Nixon
>
>