Risk Aversion in the Nicolls
James Nicoll
the nepoti. Got a small cup, the very cup that I used at age 3 or
4 when I got up early, slid open two bolts [One at the top of
the door. Had to put a stool on a chair to get that high], got
out a place mat and the fine china cup and knocked back a full
bottle of sherry. My older brother found me and reported rather
puzzledly that "James can't stand up and he can sit down either."
Off to the hospital with James, waving happy, "Goodbye! Goodbye!"
Hmmm. Couldn't have been 3 as I wasn't speaking yet.
My nepoti observed that a lot of my stories end with "And
when I regained consciousness, there was a crowd standing around
looking at me."
My older brother has taken up mule skinning.
My younger brother, wanting a nice quiet vacation, is in
Venezuela.
--
P Nielsen Hayden
<846uk2$kk$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
James, I had to read this three times before I figured out that you
didn't knock back the full bottle of sherry _this_ Christmas, but
rather when you were 3.
I was about to write to a mutual friend and ask what was the matter
with your life, that you had suddenly taken up serious alcoholism. I'm
glad I re-read your post first...
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
James Nicoll
P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>James, I had to read this three times before I figured out that you
>didn't knock back the full bottle of sherry _this_ Christmas, but
>rather when you were 3.
Sorry about that.
>I was about to write to a mutual friend and ask what was the matter
>with your life, that you had suddenly taken up serious alcoholism. I'm
>glad I re-read your post first...
>
Actually things are going very well, assuming Steve's alive.
--
James Nicoll
unclear article snipped: see earlier reaction to seeing posts I
thought were clear come out as word hash. Probably should post when I am
tired.
snip
>I was about to write to a mutual friend and ask what was the matter
>with your life, that you had suddenly taken up serious alcoholism. I'm
>glad I re-read your post first...
Thinking about this in retrospect and probably OT:
There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with being
one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged tens of
thousands of hours with folks who drank to excess and while some of them
used circustances as an excuse to drink it didn't appear to me that the
actual circustances they were in justified drinking to excess. After all,
other people were subjected to similar stresses without that reaction
and drinking rarely enhances problem solving ability, in my experience.
That in mind, and in no way intended as an attack, why would you expect
there would need to be something wrong for someone to take up alcoholism?
My experience is that the chain of disasters generally -starts- with
drinking, which makes me wonder about phrases like 'being driven to
drink.'
My experience also suggests that I already have enough times
where I end up getting stitches while explaining that '[hideously ill
thought out act] seemed like a good idea at the time' without anything
more thought-distorting than coffee and sugar.
James Nicoll
--
James Nicoll
James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>In article <8EA97B5...@166.84.0.240>,
>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca (James Nicoll) wrote in
>><846uk2$kk$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
>
> unclear article snipped: see earlier reaction to seeing posts I
>thought were clear come out as word hash. Probably should post when I am
>tired.
>
Please insert a not after should. I wonder why it is of all the words
I can drop from sentences, 'not' is so often the one I do?
--
Loren MacGregor
>
> Did the Christmas thing with my brother, his sweetie and
> the nepoti. Got a small cup, the very cup that I used at age 3 or
> 4 when I got up early, slid open two bolts [One at the top of
> the door. Had to put a stool on a chair to get that high], got
> out a place mat and the fine china cup and knocked back a full
> bottle of sherry. My older brother found me and reported rather
> puzzledly that "James can't stand up and he can sit down either."
> Off to the hospital with James, waving happy, "Goodbye! Goodbye!"
>
> Hmmm. Couldn't have been 3 as I wasn't speaking yet.
>
> My nepoti observed that a lot of my stories end with "And
> when I regained consciousness, there was a crowd standing around
> looking at me."
>
> My older brother has taken up mule skinning.
>
> My younger brother, wanting a nice quiet vacation, is in
> Venezuela.
Debbie Notkin used to say that she didn't believe my stories until
she found that many of them had independent verification. I think
the two of you should meet.
Say, did I tell you about the time I inserted a fork into a wall
plug, just as the power grid failed for a six block area around our
house?
-- LJM
P Nielsen Hayden
>In article <8EA97B5...@166.84.0.240>,
>P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>>jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca (James Nicoll) wrote in
>><846uk2$kk$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
>
> unclear article snipped: see earlier reaction to seeing posts I
>thought were clear come out as word hash. Probably should post when
>I am tired.
>
> snip
>
>>I was about to write to a mutual friend and ask what was the matter
>>with your life, that you had suddenly taken up serious alcoholism.
>>I'm glad I re-read your post first...
>
> Thinking about this in retrospect and probably OT:
>
> There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with
> being
>one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged
>tens of thousands of hours with folks who drank to excess and while
>some of them used circustances as an excuse to drink it didn't
>appear to me that the actual circustances they were in justified
>drinking to excess. After all, other people were subjected to
>similar stresses without that reaction and drinking rarely enhances
>problem solving ability, in my experience. That in mind, and in no
>way intended as an attack, why would you expect there would need to
>be something wrong for someone to take up alcoholism?
No offense taken. If you had in fact revealed that you'd taken to
putting away entire bottles of sherry at one sitting, I might indeed
say to a mutual friend "Goodness, what's wrong with James? I hear he's
suddenly drinking heavily." But that would be just a way of opening
the subject, expressing concern, exploring whether anything useful
might be done.
>My experience
>is that the chain of disasters generally -starts- with drinking,
>which makes me wonder about phrases like 'being driven to drink.'
You have a point.
Loren MacGregor
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:59:26 -0800, Loren MacGregor
> <churn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Say, did I tell you about the time I inserted a fork into a wall
> >plug, just as the power grid failed for a six block area around our
> >house?
>
> been hurt.
That's what my mother, who had just missed my presence at table and
was peering under things to see where I might have wandered, said.
Loosely translated, of course.
-- LJM
Theresa Wojtasiewicz
>
> In article <848703$icm$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>,
> James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca (James Nicoll) wrote in
> >><846uk2$kk$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
> >
> > unclear article snipped: see earlier reaction to seeing posts I
> >thought were clear come out as word hash. Probably should post when I am
> >tired.
> >
>
> Please insert a not after should. I wonder why it is of all the words
> I can drop from sentences, 'not' is so often the one I do?
There's a sound psychological reason for that, which a psychotherapest
explained to me one time, and of course, by now, I've forgotten the
details - but essentially, while the conscious mind may accept the word
"not", the subconscious mind doesn't "hear" it.
> --
--
Non amo te, Sabidi, nec possum dicere quare:
hoc tantum possum dicere, non amo te.
John Boston
says...
[snip]
>Say, did I tell you about the time I inserted a fork into a wall
>plug, just as the power grid failed for a six block area around our
>house?
I know someone with a similar story, involving her plug-in
vibrator and the New York City blackout of 1977.
John Boston
Andy Hickmott
<churn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Say, did I tell you about the time I inserted a fork into a wall
>plug, just as the power grid failed for a six block area around our
>house?
Now that's timing! If it hadn't failed just then, why, you could've
been hurt.
--
Andy Hickmott
How fleeting are all human passions compared with
the massive continuity of ducks. [Dorothy Sayers]
Nancy Lebovitz
James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>
> There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with being
>one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged tens of
I've heard of a few other cases of people giving up addictions from
boredom. I wonder how common it actually is.
>thousands of hours with folks who drank to excess and while some of them
>used circustances as an excuse to drink it didn't appear to me that the
>actual circustances they were in justified drinking to excess. After all,
>other people were subjected to similar stresses without that reaction
>and drinking rarely enhances problem solving ability, in my experience.
>That in mind, and in no way intended as an attack, why would you expect
>there would need to be something wrong for someone to take up alcoholism?
>My experience is that the chain of disasters generally -starts- with
>drinking, which makes me wonder about phrases like 'being driven to
>drink.'
>
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com
October '99 calligraphic button catalogue available by email!
Ailsa N Murphy
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
>In article <848703$icm$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>,
>James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with being
>>one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged tens of
>
>I've heard of a few other cases of people giving up addictions from
>boredom. I wonder how common it actually is.
>
but exactly which thing is subject to change.
-Ailsa
--
There is no forgetting sorrow an...@world.std.com
There is no regretting love Ailsa N.T. Murphy
All we really do is borrow all the dreams we're dreaming of
We can never know tomorrow, all we have is giving love today
-Midge Ure
Avram Grumer
Lebovitz) wrote:
> In article <848703$icm$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>,
> James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with being
> >one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged
> >tens of
>
> I've heard of a few other cases of people giving up addictions from
> boredom. I wonder how common it actually is.
Don't some people become addicted as a form of stress management? If the
source of stress goes away, it takes away some of the motivation to stay
addicted.
--
Avram Grumer | Any sufficiently advanced
Home: av...@bigfoot.com | technology is indistinguishable
http://www.PigsAndFishes.org | from an error message.
James Nicoll
Avram Grumer <av...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>In article <84aei9$b...@netaxs.com>, na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy
>Lebovitz) wrote:
>
>> In article <848703$icm$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>,
>> James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> >There are a lot of drunks in my family. In fact I toyed with being
>> >one of them but it wasn't interesting so I stopped. I'd say I logged
>> >tens of
>>
>> I've heard of a few other cases of people giving up addictions from
>> boredom. I wonder how common it actually is.
>
>Don't some people become addicted as a form of stress management? If the
>source of stress goes away, it takes away some of the motivation to stay
>addicted.
Huh. I get anxious if my stress drops -below- a certain level.
Granted, being an independent business person, that doesn't happen often.
James Nicoll
--
Scott Taylor
<3867FF88...@sympatico.ca>...
> James Nicoll wrote:
> >
> > In article <848703$icm$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>,
> > James Nicoll <jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > >P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
> > >>jam...@nyquist.uwaterloo.ca (James Nicoll) wrote in
> > >><846uk2$kk$1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>:
<snip>
> > Please insert a not after should. I wonder why it is of all the words
> > I can drop from sentences, 'not' is so often the one I do?
>
> There's a sound psychological reason for that, which a psychotherapest
> explained to me one time, and of course, by now, I've forgotten the
> details - but essentially, while the conscious mind may accept the word
> "not", the subconscious mind doesn't "hear" it.
So not is a real-world occurrence of fnord, then?
:-)
--
Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, Will Travel
Vicki Rosenzweig
I think it's more that negatives are a more advanced
idea than nouns and verbs. So "Do not open the door"
isn't a great safety warning: "Keep the door closed"
works better, because it has "closed" as the main thing
to do, rather than "open."
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Sue Mason for TAFF!
Erik V. Olson
>I think it's more that negatives are a more advanced
>idea than nouns and verbs. So "Do not open the door"
>isn't a great safety warning: "Keep the door closed"
>works better, because it has "closed" as the main thing
>to do, rather than "open."
I read those as two different requests. The first says, "Do not, under
any circumstance, open the door," while the second says "Sure, open the door
for whatever reason, but close it as soon as you're through." I'd expect to
see the latter on a storefront and the former on a blast furnace.
Furthermore, I think society disagrees with you-The signs don't say "Park
Elsewhere", they say "No parking." There is a "universal" symbol for NO, the
circle/slash, but I can't think of a "universal" symbol for YES.
--
Erik V. Olson, SFOF, YACN: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
I gave up on the clever .signature line for a while.
Dave Weingart
>I think it's more that negatives are a more advanced
>idea than nouns and verbs. So "Do not open the door"
>isn't a great safety warning: "Keep the door closed"
>works better, because it has "closed" as the main thing
>to do, rather than "open."
Where does "Mind the gap" fit into this?
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK O, what can ail thee, geek-at-arms
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Alone and slowly telnetting?
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux The net has crumbled from the load
ICQ 57055207 And no hosts ping
Ray Radlein
>
> Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
>
> >I think it's more that negatives are a more advanced idea than
> >nouns and verbs. So "Do not open the door" isn't a great safety
> >warning: "Keep the door closed" works better, because it has
> >"closed" as the main thing to do, rather than "open."
>
> under any circumstance, open the door," while the second says
> "Sure, open the door for whatever reason, but close it as soon as
> you're through." I'd expect to see the latter on a storefront and
> the former on a blast furnace.
I was once exiled to an office in the mosquito-infested basement of
the Math building in college. LeConte had stairwells at either end,
and the north half of the basement was Grad Student offices, whereas
the south end was the building's physical plant (whence came the
mosquito-breeding moisture, I suspect). If you wanted to get to a
classroom on the south end of the building (or the computer lab, which
was at the far south end of the ground floor), it was much easier to
walk through the physical plant area, which was guarded only by a door
marked "Keep Door Closed."
Being a Math Weenie, I added a sign reading "Open Door at Most
Countably Often."
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Okkoto-chu! I choose you!" - Princess Pokemononoke
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Alison Scott
>James, I had to read this three times before I figured out that you
>didn't knock back the full bottle of sherry _this_ Christmas, but
>rather when you were 3.
>
>I was about to write to a mutual friend and ask what was the matter
>with your life, that you had suddenly taken up serious alcoholism. I'm
>glad I re-read your post first...
I'm quite shocked by the notion that downing a bottle of sherry at
Christmas is evidence of serious alcoholism. It strikes me as being a
perfectly normal response to the range of traditional family Christmas
pursuits (the wrapping of entirely too many oddly shaped mathoms,
hours of tedious traditional card games, triple doses of Who Wants to
Be a Millionaire, taking 8000 digital photos of the pre-schooler in a
feather boa and emailing them to Hong Kong, that sort of thing)
combined with the notorious lack of drinkable whisky in one's parents'
house. Horrifying, that last is still true, despite our making sure to
give my father a decent malt last year so that he'd have something
adequate to offer us when we visited. So what options are left other
than a serious assault on the amontillado, after explaining that it
needs to be served in oversized glasses?
But even a lush like me is skeptical of the original story; my almost
-three-year old still weighs less than a fifth what an adult would,
has practically no tolerance to alcohol, and, far from being unable to
speak, tells us lengthy stories about how the friendly dragon is
helping Father Christmas get unstuck from the chimney. So James will
have been younger than three at the relevant time, and an entire
bottle of sherry for a child that age would be quite lethal - but of
course they'd be violently ill first. That *is* a possibility (though
not consistent with the story of his being happy), but more likely is
that he finished whatever happened to be in the previously opened
bottle.
It does make me fret rather about the amount of booze in this house
within easy reach of the babe, even so. I have little worry about her
drinking the chartreuse, but something like Drambuie (sweet as toffee
and 40% ABV) could be a temptation.
--
Alison Scott ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk & www.fuggles.demon.co.uk
Multiple award-losing fanzine: www.moose.demon.co.uk/plokta
News and views for SF fans: www.plokta.com/pnn
Bjørn Vermo
Scott) wrote:
>
> I'm quite shocked by the notion that downing a bottle of sherry at
> Christmas is evidence of serious alcoholism. It strikes me as being a
> perfectly normal response to the range of traditional family Christmas
> pursuits ...
Quite. Anybody who bothers to even mention that he drank a whole
bottle of sherry is actually telling us that it is something unusual
and worth mentioning. An alcoholic with a taste for sherry would at
the very least down a bottle every day, and most people do not find
routine things worth mentioning. Besides, most alcoholics do not like
to talk about (or remind themselves) how much they drink.
Ailsa N Murphy
Alison Scott <ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>It does make me fret rather about the amount of booze in this house
>within easy reach of the babe, even so. I have little worry about her
>drinking the chartreuse, but something like Drambuie (sweet as toffee
>and 40% ABV) could be a temptation.
>
home and found Kathy (then Katie) smelling rather muskier than usual
and swaying when she walked, checked, and discovered she had drunk
most of a bottle of aftershave.
Poison Control told me to feed her a bunch of bread, and send her
to sleep it off.
James Nicoll
>-three-year old still weighs less than a fifth what an adult would,
>has practically no tolerance to alcohol, and, far from being unable to
>speak, tells us lengthy stories about how the friendly dragon is
>helping Father Christmas get unstuck from the chimney. So James will
>have been younger than three at the relevant time, and an entire
>bottle of sherry for a child that age would be quite lethal - but of
>course they'd be violently ill first. That *is* a possibility (though
>not consistent with the story of his being happy), but more likely is
>that he finished whatever happened to be in the previously opened
>bottle.
It could be. I have to admit my memories of anything before age
4 are very vague and don't include this incident. It's just the way my
parents and older brother told the story. Full bottle might have sounded
better.
--
Marilee J. Layman
(Alison Scott) wrote:
> taking 8000 digital photos of the pre-schooler in a
>feather boa and emailing them to Hong Kong, that sort of thing)
I got a homemade card with images of the couple's new infant wearing
cat antlers & snowflake headpieces (they have five cats).
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
relm...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
Web site: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/
AOL keyword: BOOKs > Chats & Message > SF Forum > The Other*Worlds*Cafe
Andrew Plotkin
> In <386ba6ef...@news.demon.co.uk>, ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
> (Alison Scott) wrote:
>
>> taking 8000 digital photos of the pre-schooler in a
>>feather boa and emailing them to Hong Kong, that sort of thing)
>
> I got a homemade card with images of the couple's new infant wearing
> cat antlers & snowflake headpieces (they have five cats).
Cat antlers?
My visualization of the Cosmic All is abruptly coming up blank.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
mark
> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
> > In <386ba6ef...@news.demon.co.uk>, ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
> > (Alison Scott) wrote:
> >
> >> taking 8000 digital photos of the pre-schooler in a
> >>feather boa and emailing them to Hong Kong, that sort of thing)
> >
> > I got a homemade card with images of the couple's new infant wearing
> > cat antlers & snowflake headpieces (they have five cats).
>
> Cat antlers?
>
> My visualization of the Cosmic All is abruptly coming up blank.
>
quarters of Mentor, for a Clue....
mark "My name is Kimball Kinneson, I lead the Lensman band..."
Marilee J. Layman
<erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote:
>> In <386ba6ef...@news.demon.co.uk>, ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
>> (Alison Scott) wrote:
>>
>>> taking 8000 digital photos of the pre-schooler in a
>>>feather boa and emailing them to Hong Kong, that sort of thing)
>>
>> I got a homemade card with images of the couple's new infant wearing
>> cat antlers & snowflake headpieces (they have five cats).
>
>Cat antlers?
>
>My visualization of the Cosmic All is abruptly coming up blank.
I have some. Brindle liked to dress up. :) They're stuffed antlers
proportionally sized for cats, with elastic that goes under the cat's
chin. The snowflake is similar. Last year, I got pictures of the
cats with the headdresses. This year, the baby.
Here, I found a picture. They're cuter when they're on the animal:
http://www.petsmart.com/products/product_6413.shtml
Erik V. Olson
>Here, I found a picture. They're cuter when they're on the animal:
At, first, due to some fluke in updating my terminal window, that was the
only line I saw....
mike weber
on 27 Dec 1999 05:48:50 GMT,
> Did the Christmas thing with my brother, his sweetie and
>the nepoti. Got a small cup, the very cup that I used at age 3 or
>4 when I got up early, slid open two bolts [One at the top of
>the door. Had to put a stool on a chair to get that high], got
>out a place mat and the fine china cup and knocked back a full
>bottle of sherry. My older brother found me and reported rather
>puzzledly that "James can't stand up and he can sit down either."
>Off to the hospital with James, waving happy, "Goodbye! Goodbye!"
>
> Hmmm. Couldn't have been 3 as I wasn't speaking yet.
>
When Youngest Brother Jim (The Potter) was about three or four he
drank an entire bottle of orange extract in our grandmother's kitchen;
staggered out to where we were, exhaled an approximately 70 proof load
of sweet orange-tinged breath on us and cheerfully went to sleep in
the middle of the floor...
--
mike weber kras...@mindspring.com
==========================================================
The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns
something that will always be useful and which never will
grow dim or doubtful. -- Mark Twain.
overly ambitious website: http://weberworld.virtualave.net
mike weber
30 Dec 1999 15:16:59 GMT,
: