IBM doesn't care about students or registered users.
James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Major
order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
over $200.00.
I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
to think about a $200 price tag.
Jim
--
------\ /\ /-----
|_____ \ / \ / ____|
_______\ \/ \/ /_______________________________________________
( \ /\ / )
( \ / / \ / /----- James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Undergrad )
( Montani \ / \ \ / ____| VAX/VMS: UN03...@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU )
( Semper \ \ / / Ultrix: bur...@coe.wvu.wvnet.edu )
( Liberi \ / Freenet: am...@cleveland.freenet.edu )
(___________________\ /___________________________________________________)
\/
Peter vonKaenel
>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>over $200.00.
>
>I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>
>Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
>
>Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
>student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
>to think about a $200 price tag.
If you don't think version 2.1 is worth it, don't buy it. There is a patch to bring
2.0 up to 2.1 (without windows 3.1 and multimedia) somewhere on watson. This sounds
like the perfect solution since you didn't have the time or money when 2.1 came out.
If you want windows 3.1 and multimedia with OS/2, don't expect to get it for nothing.
Remember, no one is forcing you to upgrade.
Peter von Kaenel (vo...@cs.rochester.edu)
pol...@physics.purdue.edu
>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>over $200.00.
>
Why don't you just go buy it at any old place for $80-$100 depending on
the media and place of purchase? IBM doesn't like to sell direct so
they don't give you a good price. They were offering $30 rebates to
previous users but that might have expired by now. So if you weren't
so busy wining you probably could have upgraded for only $50.
Ian S Nelson
> order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
> Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
> OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
> over $200.00.
> I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
> should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
> Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
> Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
> student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
> to think about a $200 price tag.
Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
dumped loads of stuff on us. Now I'm split, NT is better in that it
does more out of the box and costs less but it costs a lot in the
hardware department. OS/2 is better overall, but it costs tons of money
for you to utilize it. ($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
--
Ian S. Nelson <in...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Carnegie-Mellon Math/Computer Science Undergrad
My opinions are not the school's, although they should be!
Dale Hackemeyer
un03...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Major) writes:
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a
>little over $200.00.
upgrade for something like $110. I don't have their catalog in front
of me, so I may be wrong (but it IS cheaper than $180!). Look on
ftp-os2.cdrom.com in /pub/os2/incoming for MM1093.ZIP. It's the October
Mid-Missouri OS/2 Users Group Newsletter and there's an small article
on some OS/2 mail order places. Call some of the places listed and ask
for their upgrade price. Good luck!
Dale Hackemeyer | Internet: uc54...@mizzou1.missouri.edu
| BitNet : UC545502@MIZZOU1
gde...@agen.ufl.edu
>>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>>
>>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>>over $200.00.
Call Indelible Blue @ 1 800 776 8284 for some more reasonable prices. I've been using OS/2 for
some time, and have had many dealings with IBM. I've found their technical support to be
excellent, and despite my "student" status, they could not have been more courteous or helpful.
George Demmy
gde...@agen.ufl.edu
Ag Engineering Dept
University of Florida
Divya Sundaram
>Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
>that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
>sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
>dumped loads of stuff on us. Now I'm split, NT is better in that it
>does more out of the box and costs less but it costs a lot in the
>hardware department. OS/2 is better overall, but it costs tons of money
>for you to utilize it. ($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
My sentiments exactly. I am getting increasingly PRO-Win simply because I
cannot afford to add the network goodies (as you so nicely put it) to my
system .... maybe if I was a rich man. I have gone to using Linux/X and
DOS/Win on my system. IBM seems to charge outrageous amounts of money
for a product ... it seems that they are intent on ensuring that OS/2
peripherals/accessories do not get any market share. As a student, I cannot
afford to shell out $700 or so to add TCP/IP and X server and client to my
workstation. I went the better route - got Linux. It works fairly well -
but then it is free ... so I put up with the bugs.
Microsoft on the other hand, priced their Visual C++ /Windows at $49 for
students. (this doesn't work under OS/2 - hence the, hopefully temporary,
switch back to Win/DOS). I am beginning to pay more attention to them
because they do seem a little more responsive towards students than IBM.
Divya
Andy Brush @Sverdrup
>peripherals/accessories do not get any market share. As a student, I cannot
>afford to shell out $700 or so to add TCP/IP and X server and client to my
>workstation. I went the better route - got Linux. It works fairly well -
This statement is purely idiotic! This is NOT how much the referenced
capabilities cost! I bought the TCP/IP "total kit", ver 1.2.1 for about
$350! That includes NFS, good telnet clients, X server, etc. If you're
going to whine about prices, at least compare the real street prices!
BTW, now there's a third party X-windows product for OS/2, so you are not
locked into the supposedly high IBM prices.
Andrew S. Brush | SMB...@LIMS01.lerc.nasa.gov
Sverdrup Technology | 2001 Aerospace Parkway
NASA LeRC Group | Brook Park, OH 44142
"Opinions are Mine, Only" | (216) 826-6770
Joo C. Chung
I would like to comment on the MS CD available at CMU. It is a good deal
but as far as I know it is offered ONLY to CMU. Also, people outside
of CMU aren't really supposed to know about it.
Joo.
---
Chung, Joo C. | I don't know how to speak for anyone else, so
yu...@cmu.edu | please don't accuse me of doing it.
Carnegie Mellon University |
John McGing
about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
with money problems, or that they're so potentially influential that
people like me should pay "full" price so that some corp can give these
guys a free ride.
Hate to see what they say once they graduate and have to pay retail like
the rest of us.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
jmc...@access.digex.net Nobody knows the troubles I've seen...
woodb!oss2cc!jmc...@soaf1.ssa.gov .... and nobody cares!
J.MCGING on GEnie 70142,1357 on Compuserve My post, my ideas
Juha-Matti Liukkonen
>Ian S Nelson <in...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
>>that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
:
>>hardware department. OS/2 is better overall, but it costs tons of money
>>for you to utilize it. ($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
>My sentiments exactly. I am getting increasingly PRO-Win simply because I
>cannot afford to add the network goodies (as you so nicely put it) to my
Add me to the list too. The networking stuff is too expensive. I'd bet
it would sold loads if the price was half of what it's now.
--
"What sane person could live in this world jliu...@cc.helsinki.fi
and not be crazy?" - Ursula LeGuin +358 (9)0 5621274
William Unruh
>>that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>>7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>>Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
>>sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
>I would like to comment on the MS CD available at CMU. It is a good deal
>but as far as I know it is offered ONLY to CMU. Also, people outside
>of CMU aren't really supposed to know about it.
Well maybe Carnegie Mellon has a great deal, but even here at UBC, NT is
selling n a educational version for $170 Cdn (=$130 or so $US).
IBM should realise what Apple and Microsoft long ago realised that
today's student is tomorrows business owner.
Matt Austern
> Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the
> college student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that
> matter, it really needs to think about a $200 price tag.
Well, personally I agree: I'd like to see some aggressive marketing
on IBM's part. They've gotten better, but they still have a way to
go---and yes, I would like them to go specifically after the college
market. Here at UC Berkeley, for example, there is an official school
outlet to sell computer equipment to students. They sell a great deal
of IBM hardware---but they do not offer OS/2. IBM ought to do what it
can to change this sort of situation.
However, the situation isn't all *that* bad.
> Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a
> REGISTERED OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone
> can buy it for a little over $200.00.
Anyone who quoted a price of $180 is way, way out of line. I bought my
copy of OS/2 2.1 for $105, and that was just because I was in a hurry:
if I'd waited, and looked for the best price, I could have paid less
than $100.
I was not upgrading from 2.0: I was buying OS/2 for the first time. If
I *had* been upgrading, then I would have gotten an additional $30 rebate:
the upgrade package comes with a coupon good for a $30 rebate for
registered OS/2 2.0 users. That puts your out-of-pocket cost at $60 or
so.
Maybe still a bit steeper than one might like, but rather nicer for a
student with a limited budget, if you ask me.
See the FAQ list for suggestions about where to get good prices on
OS/2.
--
Matthew Austern Maybe we can eventually make language a
ma...@physics.berkeley.edu complete impediment to understanding.
Jason B. Tiller
>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
If you're paying $100 for the 2.1 upgrade, you're being ripped off.
>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>over $200.00.
Same as above - I got the OS/2 2.1 *disk* upgrade (more expensive than the
CD upgrade) for ~$90 at EGGHEAD, hardly the cheapest s/w vendor. There were
reports of the upgrade CD being $79 at some shops - subtract the $30 rebate
you'd get as a registered user (sorry, the rebate program is over now - I
*definitely* feel that IBM should extend it!), and you'd pay just about the
*same* price as I did for my DOS 6.0 upgrade - $49. Gee, and look at what
you get for that price - Win3.1, Ultimedia (320x200, 24fps, no hardware
assist), stability, bunches more devices supported... An awful lot for the
price of the DOS 6.0 upgrade, which gave nothing but compression.
>I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
I don't quite understand why this is myself. Most likely because IBM has
just never had to consider the end-user education market. I mean, how many
students are out there pricing mainframes or AS/400s? Remember IBM hasn't
quite shaken off its old ways...
>Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
>student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
>to think about a $200 price tag.
As I've said, a few minutes phone work could have slashed that price by more
than 75%.
>Jim
>--
> ------\ /\ /-----
> |_____ \ / \ / ____|
> _______\ \/ \/ /_______________________________________________
>( \ /\ / )
>( \ / / \ / /----- James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Undergrad )
>( Montani \ / \ \ / ____| VAX/VMS: UN03...@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU )
>( Semper \ \ / / Ultrix: bur...@coe.wvu.wvnet.edu )
>( Liberi \ / Freenet: am...@cleveland.freenet.edu )
>(___________________\ /___________________________________________________)
> \/
It's a little long, but I like the .sig. :>
---Jason
jti...@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
#include <foolish_consistency.h>
Jesus Rodriguez
Christopher L Menegay
> I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
> order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
> Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
> OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
> over $200.00.
>
When did IBM up the price? It was still a little over $100 last time I checked.
**-------------------------------------------------------------------------**
** Christopher L. Menegay ::: cmen...@cs.tamu.edu **
**-------------------------------------------------------------------------**
** "If I could, I'd slow the whole world down, I'd bring it to its knees, **
** I'd stop it spinning round. But as it is I'm climbing up and endless **
** wall, no time at all." **
*****************************************************************************
Paul Petrucelly
>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
Thats true, the $70 - $80 was quite the ripoff!! I mean what the hay. As for
the time... It is so hard these days to find the time to pickup the phone, and
call the 1-800 number, and answer a few questions... I mean, like IBM you should
like, send it to me for free, like you know what I mean.
>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>over $200.00.
>
>I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>
What a rip man. Bill Gates knows how to make us feel good man. Like OS2 for $200,
when I can get an upgrade to DOS 6.0 for $50, or less if you know what I mean man.
And like Dos is just so bitchen, you know what I mean. It just smashes OS2 all
over the place. Bitchin man.
>Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
>
Bummer man.
>Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
>student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
>to think about a $200 price tag.
>
Yeh like IBM get radical dudes... like send out OS2 free, and send a $30 rebate
with each copy dudes, and see how much we like you man. Bitchin dudes.
>Jim
>
>--
> ------\ /\ /-----
> |_____ \ / \ / ____|
> _______\ \/ \/ /_______________________________________________
>( \ /\ / )
>( \ / / \ / /----- James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Undergrad )
>( Montani \ / \ \ / ____| VAX/VMS: UN03...@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU )
>( Semper \ \ / / Ultrix: bur...@coe.wvu.wvnet.edu )
>( Liberi \ / Freenet: am...@cleveland.freenet.edu )
>(___________________\ /___________________________________________________)
> \/
I'm with you Jim, I mean what about discounts for us engineers. Man i'm
guna reformat my machine tonight and go back to DOS.... Jim, you and Bill Gates
are so radical. Excellent man.
paul
David Charlap
>> I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>> order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
>> Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>> OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>> over $200.00.
From who? The upgrade pack is not that expensive from any store I've
been in. You don't have to order directly from IBM, and you will pay
list price if you do. Go to a local computer store and save $80.
>> I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>> should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
DOS is not OS/2. A cheap and low-power operating system had better be
that inexpensive. And I think $50 is still too much for a file system
and program launcher.
>> Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
>> student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
>> to think about a $200 price tag.
I have not seen a $200 price tag on any upgrade packages. Only the
full non-upgrades cost that much, and that is still the list price.
The only "special summer offer" that isn't on now is the $30 rebate.
>Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
>that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130.
This is a special offer. As far as I know, only CMU people can get
this deal. At NJIT, we have just as many MS apps going around as you
do, but we have to pay $100 for each Windows application, and many of
the tools you speak of cost over $200. And NJIT is supposedly getting
MS's educational discounts.
And since when is networking the thing that makes a PC worth owning in
college. Maybe CMU has ethernet jacks in the dorm rooms, but most
schools to not.
>Now I'm split, NT is better in that it does more out of the box...
Now you're talking nonsense. NT does more than what? It is inferior
to Win 3.1 for running 16-bit Windows apps, and there are almost no
native apps available for it. And the built-in networking, I'm told,
is merely a telnet session, unless you have other NT boxes to connect
to.
>and costs less but it costs a lot in the hardware department. OS/2
>is better overall, but it costs tons of money for you to utilize it.
>($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
What are you talking about? You strike me as a user who is far from
typical (although maybe everyone at CMU has these atypical systems).
And I really don't want IBM including tons of features that won't be
used. Just because they're built in doesn't mean you're not paying
for them.
Now if you want to complain that MS is taking a tremendous loss to get
an entire campus to use their apps exclusively, and IBM isn't, then
fine. But don't try to get everybody else to pay an extra $50 a copy
so that you can avoid spending $200 for your system.
--
+--------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| David Charlap, TEAM-OS/2 | OS/2 2.1. Operate at a higher level |
| dic...@hertz.njit.edu | |
+--------------------------+--------------------------------------+
Scott Moore
>I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
>order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
>OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
>over $200.00.
>I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
>Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
>student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
>to think about a $200 price tag.
>Jim
Well, I see by now you have a huge list of replys to this preposterous
statement, but let me add that I have seen an upgrade for 2.1 for $69,
admittedly the CD version. I think that is in striking distance of your
$50 dos upgrade. Also, unlike win 3.1, IBM is offering a kit that fixes
all the bugs in 2.0 (free) for those not wanting to upgrade.
[sam]
--
Scott A. Moore [SAM] | *** NO *** segments
sam...@netcom.com | *** NO *** dlls
San Jose, CA USA | The majority of the mistakes make in the design
408-452-8860 | of the PC can be found in '50s and '60s computer
ExaByte Corp. | textbooks. Learn from the past for a change !
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jens Petersohn
:I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
:order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
:Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
:OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
: over $200.00.
:I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
:should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
:Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
:Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
:student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
:to think about a $200 price tag.
: Jim
<Stuff deleted>
Hmm, funny, I paid $79.99 minus $30 (i.e. $49.99) for my OS/2 2.0 -> 2.1
upgrade (CD-ROM). No educational discount either.
Jens
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Jens Petersohn | Internet: j...@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu |
| Dept. of Physics and Astronomy | j...@uoft02.utoledo.edu |
| Ritter Observatory #302 | Bitnet: jkp@uoft02 |
| University of Toledo | |
| Toledo, OH 43606 | BellNet: (419) 537-2589 (Campus ph.) |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu
> Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
> that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
That really depends on the school. Most places aren't as well-wired as
Carnegie Mellon, and even for those that are, students living off-campus don't
get much benefit. It's also not as if a computer is useless if it's not
networked to something!
> MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
> 7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
> Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
Somebody posted something about this offer a while back, but IT APPLIES ONLY AT
CARNEGIE-MELLON. It's therefore a non-issue for 99.9%+ of the people reading
this newsgroup.
--Rod Smith
RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
Ian S Nelson
> >afford to shell out $700 or so to add TCP/IP and X server and client to my
> >workstation. I went the better route - got Linux. It works fairly well -
> This statement is purely idiotic! This is NOT how much the referenced
> capabilities cost! I bought the TCP/IP "total kit", ver 1.2.1 for about
> $350! That includes NFS, good telnet clients, X server, etc. If you're
> going to whine about prices, at least compare the real street prices!
> BTW, now there's a third party X-windows product for OS/2, so you are not
> locked into the supposedly high IBM prices.
$350 still doesn't beat MS's deal.
rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu
> Well maybe Carnegie Mellon has a great deal, but even here at UBC, NT is
> selling n a educational version for $170 Cdn (=$130 or so $US).
> IBM should realise what Apple and Microsoft long ago realised that
> today's student is tomorrows business owner.
That US$130 for NT is still more than the street price of the upgrade version
of OS/2 2.1. (And if you don't have an OS, you can always buy an outdated
version of DOS or OS/2 for $15 or so, which is what I did.)
--Rod Smith
RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
John Driver
> as a REGISTERED OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for
> ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little over $200.00.
generally known for great prices) for around 70 dollars. And if you
are a registered user, then you can get 30 dollars back, so your
total cost is only 40 dollars, which is not bad at all.
--
INTERNET: oxo...@netlink.nix.com (John Driver)
UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!oxomoxo
Network Information eXchange * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
discounts. Sure, it saves us some money, but don't think for a second that
Microsoft is doing it out of the kindness of thier heart.
Anybody else here that the entire NT development team has been fired?
--
cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu | "Friends don't let friends use
cor...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu | Windows, or anything by Microsoft!"
cor...@msus1.bitnet |
CompuServe: 71044,1260 | -Keep circulating the tapes!
Divya Sundaram
>> >peripherals/accessories do not get any market share. As a student, I cannot
>> >afford to shell out $700 or so to add TCP/IP and X server and client to my
>> >workstation. I went the better route - got Linux. It works fairly well -
>> This statement is purely idiotic! This is NOT how much the referenced
>> capabilities cost! I bought the TCP/IP "total kit", ver 1.2.1 for about
>> $350! That includes NFS, good telnet clients, X server, etc. If you're
>> going to whine about prices, at least compare the real street prices!
>> BTW, now there's a third party X-windows product for OS/2, so you are not
>> locked into the supposedly high IBM prices.
>$350 still doesn't beat MS's deal.
>--
Although in all fairness, X for NT or DOS is not a cheap or pleasing prospect
either. X for OS/2 - well priced - would be a great benefit .....
I am not saying (necessarily) that students should get a special discounts,
but IBM needs to bring the price for networking OS/2 and their X server stuff
to reasonable levels. Consider the educational market - all the PCs at Mich
State Univ (MSU) are networked. If we could also use them as X stations to do
our X work (they are >100 PCs that are 486/dx2 66 w/16MB RAM) as well as our
DOS/Windows crap etc ... we would be in heaven. I have had many people inquire
about OS/2 after seeing all I could do with it. This would be a great selling
point for OS/2 to the edu market.
IBM marketing still seems to have its head buried where the sun will never
shine ... 8-(.
Sheesh ....
Divya
Divya
Divya Sundaram
OK how about $69 for CD-ROM Upgrade + $150 (minimum) for TCP/IP for OS/2?
Plus extra for other functionality that probably cannot live without once you
have networking .... NT at $130 seems a bargain ... (almost)
Divya
> --Rod Smith
> RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
Divya Sundaram
>In article <Agh2EQy00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Ian S Nelson <in...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
>> that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>That really depends on the school. Most places aren't as well-wired as
>Carnegie Mellon, and even for those that are, students living off-campus don't
>get much benefit. It's also not as if a computer is useless if it's not
>networked to something!
At a Univ. where ethernet is beginning to proliferate (for example one dorm
at MSU now has a computer in every room, and the graduate dormitory at MSU
has been looking into adding ethernet every room in at least one wing of the
dorm. Also consider those of us who have computers at work - all connected
to ethernet and having to live with DOS TCP/IP, because getting the OS/2
version is too expensive for (at least the poorer of us) to contemplate.
There are at least a 1000 .edu institutions in USA, and if we say that each
place has at least 50 computers capable of running OS/2 + TCP/IP, that is
50000 licenses. If the network suite was sold at a $150 price tag (includes
everything but development tools - $100 for that) that gives IBM
$150 * 1000 * 50 = 7500000$ potential market for OS/2's TCP IP
product. Think they are getting even 10% of that now, with the current
pricing structure? Add to that the market share that OS/2 has just gained
and all those hordes of student programmers at all these schools getting
to use and getting used to OS/2 ..... would be professional who will
someday (hopefully) make purchasing decisions for corporate buying ....
Get a clue IBM. Take a couple of basic marketing and economics classes.
>> MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>> 7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>> Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
>Somebody posted something about this offer a while back, but IT APPLIES ONLY AT
>CARNEGIE-MELLON. It's therefore a non-issue for 99.9%+ of the people reading
>this newsgroup.
The point is still valid - MS offers significant discounts to educational
customers ... hence the ubiquiuty of MS-Windows at all our labs. And, not
to mention Windows development kits and Windows applications etc etc etc
Divya
Chris Corzine
: In article <1993Oct7.0...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un03...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Major) writes:
: > Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the
: > college student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that
: > matter, it really needs to think about a $200 price tag.
: Well, personally I agree: I'd like to see some aggressive marketing
: on IBM's part. They've gotten better, but they still have a way to
: go---and yes, I would like them to go specifically after the college
: market. Here at UC Berkeley, for example, there is an official school
: outlet to sell computer equipment to students. They sell a great deal
: of IBM hardware---but they do not offer OS/2. IBM ought to do what it
: can to change this sort of situation.
This is exactly the opposite of the situation here at University of Idaho.
At the Bookstore/Computerstore, OS/2 2.1 and OS/2 software are displayed
right next to DOS+Win software. At last count, about 100 copies of 2.1
were sold through the Computerstore, which is a little less than half of
the installed base on campus. We even sell our own IBM compatible computers
with OS/2 2.1 preinstalled. And, as far as competitive pricing goes, we
sell OS/2 for $81.00 on 3.5" disks. PC DOS 6.1 is $40. MS-Windows is
$94. MS-DOS 6.0 is $90 (We know the MS-DOS price is terrible, but some
people still want it). NT is $142. I'd say IBM is competitive. They
offer DOS+Win+OS/2 functionality for less than DOS + Win. NT offers
similar features (+networking, but also costs a lot more in terms of
hardware).
Chris
Benker Carl
|> Ian S Nelson <in...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|>
|> >Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
|> >that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
|> >MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
|> >7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
|> >Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
|> >sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
|> >dumped loads of stuff on us. Now I'm split, NT is better in that it
|> >does more out of the box and costs less but it costs a lot in the
|> >hardware department. OS/2 is better overall, but it costs tons of money
|> >for you to utilize it. ($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
|>
|> My sentiments exactly. I am getting increasingly PRO-Win simply because I
|> cannot afford to add the network goodies (as you so nicely put it) to my
|> system .... maybe if I was a rich man. I have gone to using Linux/X and
... stuff deleted ...
I'm a student and I feel that I have been treated quite well by IBM on both the
hardware and software end. They gave me a great deal on a PS/2 Model 90 (true
it is only a 25MHz) and if you think you need to spend $700 to add networking
to OS/2, you obviously are not shopping. Call Indelible Blue or your nearest
IBM ***EDUCATIONAL AUTHORIZED*** dealer. OS/2 could be had for around $49
upgrade on CDROM and $79 (what I paid) for a disk upgrade. Also, you can get
the Service Pak for OS/2 2.0 for FREE via ftp or $25 if you want IBM to NEXT
DAY AIR the disks to you.
Check the FAQ for software pricing and available deals/specials.
Will Rose
: I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
: order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
:
: OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
: over $200.00.
: I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
: should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
Try Egghead. The local one still has the CDROM version for $80. It may
be nationwide.
rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu
> rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu writes:
>>That US$130 for NT is still more than the street price of the upgrade version
>>of OS/2 2.1. (And if you don't have an OS, you can always buy an outdated
>>version of DOS or OS/2 for $15 or so, which is what I did.)
>
> OK how about $69 for CD-ROM Upgrade + $150 (minimum) for TCP/IP for OS/2?
> Plus extra for other functionality that probably cannot live without once you
> have networking .... NT at $130 seems a bargain ... (almost)
OK, so how about $69 + $150 = $219 for OS/2, while NT is $130 + $600 = $730 for
the extra 8 megs of RAM you need to run it? Even if/when RAM prices drop
again, they won't come down to $89 for 8 megs within the lifetime of the
current releases of OS/2 or NT.
--Rod Smith
RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
pol...@physics.purdue.edu
>
>Add me to the list too. The networking stuff is too expensive. I'd bet
>it would sold loads if the price was half of what it's now.
>
can buy the TCP/IP package for about $150 for a grand total of $230.
You now have a system which is leaner, and more user friendly than
Windoze NT and much better networking capabilities (ftp and telnet
servers, newsreader, etc.). When people are paying $350 or so just
for NT not to mention the extra money for hardware how can you claim
IBM's product is expensive? You can say hey I'm a student and I can
get NT for only $130 but the additional 8 MB of RAM it wants will cost
you over $300 so it's still more expensive.
Phil Polstra
Internet: pol...@physics.purdue.edu
FidoNet: 1:201/100 - The Hangar BBS
pol...@physics.purdue.edu
>Somehow I find it difficult to garner sympathy for students complaining
>about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
>with money problems, or that they're so potentially influential that
>people like me should pay "full" price so that some corp can give these
>guys a free ride.
>
I think you've missed the point of educational discounts. Nobody gives
educational discounts on all of their products. It's a marketing thing
if you can get those poor students to try your products, perhaps they
will like them and spread the word to other students. News travels
much more quickly in a mass of tens of thousands of students than it
does between say two programmers who work at different companies in the
same town. When the students leave if they have good experience with
your company they are likely to buy your products even without the
discount. Most companies will give you discounts on entry level
products but not addons to those products. Giving a university discount
on a TCP/IP product would be equivalent to giving 80% of your customers
a discount. Not suprising IBM isn't giving discounts on this one.
Douglas Bell
>In article <jmcging.750017185@access> jmc...@access.digex.net (John McGing) writes:
>>Somehow I find it difficult to garner sympathy for students complaining
>>about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
>>with money problems, or that they're so potentially influential that
>>people like me should pay "full" price so that some corp can give these
>>guys a free ride.
>>
>products but not addons to those products. Giving a university discount
>on a TCP/IP product would be equivalent to giving 80% of your customers
>a discount. Not suprising IBM isn't giving discounts on this one.
This is strange. I ordered TCPIP from IBM and recieved a 30%
educational discount.
I don't know what you are taking about.
DUNLAP David
Just for the record, if we are going to compare network facilaties offered
by NT and OS/2 can we compare the costs for equivalent features. The first
poster mention that TCP/IP 2.0 for OS/2 was $700. What he didn't mention
was that this is the list price. NT Server lists for $2995.00 but you can
get it for $1495 street price.
Now, because the capabilities of TCP/IP 2.0 far, far, far, far exceed those
of NT's (and for most users - thats why they broke it up into modules),
could someone please name the NT package that brings its capabilities up
to the level of OS/2 (include the price please)?
Once we have this information then we can really do a comparison. Until then
you're comparing aples and oranges.
PS. I am a student and bought my OS/2 2.1 for $180 canadian. I found it
for $130 a week later from a different store. THESE ARE CANADIAN PRICES.
/------------------------------------------------------------\
| David Dunlap OOO SSSS | 222 |
\-------| M.Sc.(C.S.) Student O O S | 2 |-------/
\ | University of New Brunswick O O SSS | 222 | /
\ | Internet: n6...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca O O S| 2 | /
/ | n6...@unb.ca OOO SSSS | 22222 | \
/ \------------------------------------------------------------/ \
/---------\| Happy user of OS/2 2.1GA! Death to Diamond Corp! |/---------\
Trevor Tompkins
about .. by Jens Pete...@anwsun.ph
> upgrade (CD-ROM). No educational discount either.
>
> Jens
>
From Who? When and Where? The cheapest I have seen here in
Pittsuburgh is at Egghead for $94 minus the $30 rebate $64. What is
frustrating is that we as students see prices for Windows software at
almost half the market price (even less for the CD-ROM version), and
OS/2 for more than the market price. We bring this up with the computer
store and they just shrug their shoulders. Microsoft marketing has
become so powerful here on campus that even the strong macintosh support
we have here is starting to waver.
I fear by this time next year I will be a full time NT user. I have
been partly using NT only so as to keep up with what is out there.
Despite my preference to OS/2, NT has some good things going for it.
Suffice it to say that as these two operating systems converge, the
only important difference will be support and price. IBM risks losing
the entire CMU community, because support for Microsoft is strong while
support for OS/2 does not exist. While CMU may not be large, I still
don't wish it to happen.
Ironic that IBM's Mach kernal was developed here at CMU.
--Trevor Tompkins
_________________
Logic and Computation
Carnegie Mellon University
tt...@andrew.cmu.edu
Trevor Tompkins
about .. by pol...@physics.purdue.e
> can buy the TCP/IP package for about $150 for a grand total of $230.
> You now have a system which is leaner, and more user friendly than
> Windoze NT and much better networking capabilities (ftp and telnet
> servers, newsreader, etc.). When people are paying $350 or so just
> for NT not to mention the extra money for hardware how can you claim
> IBM's product is expensive? You can say hey I'm a student and I can
> get NT for only $130 but the additional 8 MB of RAM it wants will cost
> you over $300 so it's still more expensive.
Does this include all the required X-needed software? Networking my
computer to my neighbor's isn't what is important. I need to be able to
use the X-stuff on campus. I need to be able to send documents to
printers that are networked through a unix system that is much more
complicated than using PC/TCP. Many of us have tried to do this. The
only way I know of to do this now is by using Linux. Believe me when I
say that there are several OS/2 users here trying very hard to get OS/2
to do more than just read our email(BTW we get free IBM DOS SLIP too,
making it a harder decision to purchase IBM's OS/2 SLIP). You may say
"Well NT can't do this here yet either" and its true. But its not far
down the line. Our network development team knows so much about Windows
and NT that they are already working on the connections. As far as OS/2
knowledge, they often have to ask us about how it networks. I'm not an
engineer and can't keep up with all the intricacies with networking, and
therefore all I am interested in is something that will connect me so I
can do my algorithms on my computer, and print while I'm away from
campus.
Once again, let me say that it is sad to see a good operating
system, that has been around as a 32 bit OS for over a year simply fade
away at CMU because of Microsoft's pricing and marketing. I bought OS/2
because of its potnetial in this networking area (plus many other things
as well). Now it looks like I may be forced to change in the near
future due to better connections with campus.
Grischke
> I am a registered owner of OS/2 2.0. I had neither the money nor the time to
> order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
>
> Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
> OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
> over $200.00.
>
> should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>
>
> student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
> to think about a $200 price tag.
>
>
> --
> ------\ /\ /-----
> |_____ \ / \ / ____|
> _______\ \/ \/ /_______________________________________________
> ( \ /\ / )
> ( \ / / \ / /----- James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Undergrad )
> ( Montani \ / \ \ / ____| VAX/VMS: UN03...@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU )
> ( Semper \ \ / / Ultrix: bur...@coe.wvu.wvnet.edu )
> ( Liberi \ / Freenet: am...@cleveland.freenet.edu )
> (___________________\ /___________________________________________________)
> \/
That's funny. I upgraded to 2.1 (CD-ROM version) for $70 through our
university bookstore (Michigan Technological University). I received my
$30 rebate from IBM a couple of weeks ago. Final Cost = $40.
You might want to make sure your bookstore isn't selling at an unusually
high price...
Jon Grischke
jgr...@mtu.edu
Paul Petrucelly
Excuse me, but does NT run on a 386/33 with 8 meg, or a 486/25 with 8 meg.
Last time I checked, your going to pay big bucks for extra ram. How well does
NT run on these machines in a minimum configuration? OS2 ran fine on my "old 386",
with a 120 meg RLL drive. I finally upgraded to a 486/66 with 16 meg of ram, but
I didn't have to. My wife got tired of my "hogging" the machine all the time, and
insisted I get another PC (how's that for transfering the blame).
>
>Divya
>> --Rod Smith
>> RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
Divya Sundaram
>pol...@physics.purdue.edu wrote:
>>In article <jmcging.750017185@access> jmc...@access.digex.net (John McGing) writes:
>>>Somehow I find it difficult to garner sympathy for students complaining
>>>about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
>>>with money problems, or that they're so potentially influential that
>>>people like me should pay "full" price so that some corp can give these
>>>guys a free ride.
>>>
>>products but not addons to those products. Giving a university discount
>>on a TCP/IP product would be equivalent to giving 80% of your customers
>>a discount. Not suprising IBM isn't giving discounts on this one.
Yes but when the very survival of your product is not guaranteed and you are
fighting MS for marketshare, don't you think it is unreasonable to charge
the prices IBM is charging (even after the 30% discount).
All in all, what I am saying is that at the present time, it is better value
for my money to refrain from purchasing TCP/IP and accessories for OS/2
because it is too expensive. When I graduate, I doubt that I would have had
experience with OS/2's TCP/IP and would have a difficult time recommending
it to others at work ...
Kapischi?
Divya
Divya Sundaram
> --Rod Smith
> RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
What makes you think that I will NOT need an extra 8MB to run TCP/IP for
OS/2 on my machine. I have a 16MB machine and I think that I will need
some extra RAM to prevent OS/2 from swapping too much. With 16MB OS/2 is
very responsive, and I keep an 8MB swapfile .... I find swapping to be a
big drain on the system responsiveness.
Divya
Divya Sundaram
>of NT's (and for most users - thats why they broke it up into modules),
>could someone please name the NT package that brings its capabilities up
>to the level of OS/2 (include the price please)?
>Once we have this information then we can really do a comparison. Until then
>you're comparing aples and oranges.
>PS. I am a student and bought my OS/2 2.1 for $180 canadian. I found it
>for $130 a week later from a different store. THESE ARE CANADIAN PRICES.
I called indelible blue (the OS/2 only software house) and they quited me
approx $700 for the networking suite. This will allow X server/Client, NFS,
TCP/IP and a host of other goodies. So we are looking at $700 + $70 for a
total OS/2 setup = $775
[For NT, I would (probably) need to buy some extra utilities to complement
the package and bring it up to the level of OS/2's and also purchase an
X-Windows package. High discouraging thought! $130 for NT + $495 for X
(retail price for a product for NT in INFOWORLD) + $100 for extra networking
utils. Hmmmm, ... with street price of (estimate, approx) $500?
This is STILL not what I am advocating ..... ]
However, I can get Linux and dual boot (what I do nowadays) . . .
but would any COMPANY go this route ...NO
but would any edu institution want to go this route .... NO
(students might do it individually ... but LABS will NOT)
So OS/2 loses out ... IMHO.
Divya
David Charlap
>Although in all fairness, X for NT or DOS is not a cheap or pleasing prospect
>either. X for OS/2 - well priced - would be a great benefit .....
How much does DesqView/X cost?
But to be really fair, $350 is very competitive with all the other X
products out there. The only people who might have a need for X (and
can't afford $350) are students. Home users generally have no need
for it, and corporate users can afford the package. Now, perhaps IBM
should strike some kind of deal with universities, but this isn't the
same as lowering the price across the board.
>I am not saying (necessarily) that students should get a special discounts,
>but IBM needs to bring the price for networking OS/2 and their X server stuff
>to reasonable levels. Consider the educational market - all the PCs at Mich
>State Univ (MSU) are networked. If we could also use them as X stations to do
>our X work (they are >100 PCs that are 486/dx2 66 w/16MB RAM) as well as our
>DOS/Windows crap etc ... we would be in heaven. I have had many people inquire
>about OS/2 after seeing all I could do with it. This would be a great selling
>point for OS/2 to the edu market.
I don't know if you're an administrator, or student at MSU, but at
NJIT, they will never get this kind of networking in the PC labs, no
matter what the cost. NJIT has stated on many occasions that the PC
labs are intended for file transfer and printing programs, and classes
that require PC's. For running PC software, every student is loaned
his own DOS PC. And for users who require X, there are Sun
Worksataion labs that accounts can be gotten on. (And hertz.njit.edu
is there for everyone who wants a Unix account - with dial-up lines,
serial ports, and a VT-terminal lab for access).
>IBM marketing still seems to have its head buried where the sun will never
>shine ... 8-(.
Assuming that the colleges want to bring the shovel, things might
change.
--
+--------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| David Charlap, TEAM-OS/2 | OS/2 2.1. Operate at a higher level |
| dic...@hertz.njit.edu | |
+--------------------------+--------------------------------------+
David Charlap
>"Joo C. Chung" <jc...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>that makes a computer worth owning in college. If you're interested,
>>>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>>>7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>>>Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
>>>sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
>
>>but as far as I know it is offered ONLY to CMU. Also, people outside
>>of CMU aren't really supposed to know about it.
>
>Well maybe Carnegie Mellon has a great deal, but even here at UBC, NT is
>selling n a educational version for $170 Cdn (=$130 or so $US).
>IBM should realise what Apple and Microsoft long ago realised that
>today's student is tomorrows business owner.
Well, $170 is still $70 more than the price I paid in Babbages for the
OS/2 2.1 upgrade package on floppies. The CD-ROM price is even less.
And the upgrade will install on any system that has OS/2 or DOS on it.
Most everybody has DOS on their system - just try and get a dealer to
sell you a computer without it.
And it's stil far from the offer CMU is getting - $130 for everything
the company makes.
Keith R. Bennett
<cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> wrote:
>In article <jmcging.750017185@access>, jmc...@access.digex.net (John McGing) writes:
>> Somehow I find it difficult to garner sympathy for students complaining
>> about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
>> with money problems, or that they're so potentially influential that
>> people like me should pay "full" price so that some corp can give these
>> guys a free ride.
>>
>> Hate to see what they say once they graduate and have to pay retail like
>> the rest of us.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> jmc...@access.digex.net Nobody knows the troubles I've seen...
>> woodb!oss2cc!jmc...@soaf1.ssa.gov .... and nobody cares!
>> J.MCGING on GEnie 70142,1357 on Compuserve My post, my ideas
>
> Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
>companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
>me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
>discounts. Sure, it saves us some money, but don't think for a second that
>Microsoft is doing it out of the kindness of thier heart.
Gee, that's pretty mercenary of you, isn't it? Here are some novel
alternatives for determining what product to buy for your company:
1) base it on which provides the greatest benefit/cost ratio
2) base it on which is the best solution to your company's problem
3) base it on which is overall the best product
etc., etc., etc.
Or will you require that they send a free copy to your home in an
unmarked package for you to buy their product for your company?
The kind of loyalty you're referring to is not too far from bribery.
> Anybody else here that the entire NT development team has been fired?
>
>--
> cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu | "Friends don't let friends use
> cor...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu | Windows, or anything by Microsoft!"
> cor...@msus1.bitnet |
> CompuServe: 71044,1260 | -Keep circulating the tapes!
- Keith
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Bennett Bennett Business Solutions, Inc.
C++/C Software Development 1605 Ingram Terrace
kben...@access.digex.net Silver Spring, MD USA 20906-5932
Wey Jing HO
>In article <1993Oct7.0...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un03...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (James D. Burnell, WVU EE/CpE Major) writes:
>Same as above - I got the OS/2 2.1 *disk* upgrade (more expensive than the
>CD upgrade) for ~$90 at EGGHEAD, hardly the cheapest s/w vendor. There were
>reports of the upgrade CD being $79 at some shops - subtract the $30 rebate
>you'd get as a registered user (sorry, the rebate program is over now - I
>*definitely* feel that IBM should extend it!), and you'd pay just about the
>*same* price as I did for my DOS 6.0 upgrade - $49. Gee, and look at what
>you get for that price - Win3.1, Ultimedia (320x200, 24fps, no hardware
>assist), stability, bunches more devices supported... An awful lot for the
>price of the DOS 6.0 upgrade, which gave nothing but compression.
>>I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
>>should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
>>Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
What I am not happy is that IBM Australia is not even giving any discount or
upgrade price for OS/2 2.0 users. Upgrade price for MS-DOS and Windows 3.1
to go for IBM OS/2 2.1 is EXACTLY THE SAME AS users/owners of OS/2 2.0!!!
I seriously think that this is not right. Educational pricing will be a welcome
too. But then, I seriously think that upgrade pricing should be seriously
re-considered (as far as Australian-market is concerned).
--
* Wey J Ho Tel: +613-565-3615(Work), +613-701-0570(Home) Fax: +613-565-3637 *
* E-mail:w...@wey.physics.monash.edu.au Talk:os2...@wey.physics.monash.edu.au *
* Physics Dept, Monash Univ, Wellington Rd, Clayton, VIC 3168, AUSTRALIA *
* Proud user of IBM OS/2 (TCP/IP, Netware Requestor, EMX-GCC, etc etc) *
John McGing
Keith,
My points exactly. And considering that there are many people who
are already making buying decisions, and if it's true that these next few
years are the important ones for IBM, why waste time on a bunch of
college kids who's potential to have influence (compared to demonstrated
influence) is just that? Potential? Just because at some unknown point
in the future some x% of these people =might= be able to influence a
purchasing decision is reason to give them software? Long time to wait
for a poor percentage payback, especially since the purchasing decisions
had better be made for the reasons you presented, if you wanna keep your
job. And it's the purchasing decisions being made =today= that are
important, not some future almost maybe being influenctial that matters.
(I really don't mind getting students a break on things, but if this is
what people think why they are getting them, the system is surely not
working right. I don't want one of these guys working for me...)
shtm...@uctvax.uct.ac.za
> Somehow I find it difficult to garner sympathy for students complaining
> about not getting discounts. Like they're the only one's in the world
Hmm.. Yes - but students:
1) by definition are without a full-time job,
2) have time to play and can provide people like IBM with
invaluable information - through the Internet.
3) will one-day be making corporate buying decisions.
As a student, I'm sure that I will certainly support those companies that
gave themselves the best exposure to me when I needed it and when I had
the inclination to experiment.
An educational package, sans major support and packaging etc, costs the
company very little, but may just be brilliant marketing and exposure.
FOR EXAMPLE: Microsoft have (I know) given our University IS dept. at
least R70 000 worth of software to play with (what's a CD set them back) -
and when the Varsity has to make buying decisions it will know those packages
better than others.
SO - Microsoft has a generation of IS professionals graduating, all of whom
will support MS simply because they are comfortable with the packages and the
feel of their stuff. If IBM (OK - in South Africa they call themselves ISM)
could do the same for OS/2 the playing field would at least be levelled,
but they won't, and my friends gush on about NT *BECAUSE ITS ALL THEY SEE*.
Regards,
Mark Shuttleworth
PS - IBM, please kick ISM South Africa for me. They're losing.
Matthew Edward Patton
> What are you talking about? You strike me as a user who is far from
> typical (although maybe everyone at CMU has these atypical systems).
> And I really don't want IBM including tons of features that won't be
> used. Just because they're built in doesn't mean you're not paying
> for them.
> Now if you want to complain that MS is taking a tremendous loss to get
> an entire campus to use their apps exclusively, and IBM isn't, then
> fine. But don't try to get everybody else to pay an extra $50 a copy
> so that you can avoid spending $200 for your system.
Let me clarify a few things here at CMU. Yes, mickysoft is going all
out to dump their shitty software on our campus to "hook" the uneducated
user into using their products. (I won't even call them software as
they so such a bad job). The $130 for everything under the sun, is
indeed a cmu only thing.
As to our campus network environment, we like to take pride for running
the world's largest campus network with network connections (Appletalk,
and either ethernet, or token-ring) in every dorm room and particular
off-campus apartment buildings. However, network accessibility for OS2
users is less than perfect. No NFS capability, no network printing
using integrated tools like lpr, proprietary kerboros authentication etc
etc. In addition to our main network tree, we also have some 7 Novell
3.11 servers serving some 300+ (I think) pc's. Yes, so you could say
connectivity is real easy here.
I do not agree with the orginal poster's whining about OS2 prices. As
other posters have pointed out, some quick phone calls would have
remedied the situation. I would spend more energy bitching at our
recalcitrant computing services hierarchy.
Enough of my triad I think.
=========================================================================
Reliance on Mickysoft: The Disaster which Awaits..
1. Expect the much hyped/lauded product to be delayed 2 years.
2. Trust Mickysoft to ship a product with limited capability
and numerous bugs.
3. Remember backward compatability with their own products
is not guarenteed.
4. NT is not here and never will be. Also "Nice Try."
5. Mickysoft has no clue how to provide internetworking services.
6. Mickysoft relies on purchasers to point out bugs.
Thank goodness for IBM's OS2 v2.1 (also NextStep486, Linux).
--------------
The above statements though possibly inflammatory are
my own and flames will go to /dev/null
mp...@andrew.cmu.edu
mp...@GeneralHQ.pc.cc.cmu.edu (via OS/2's sendmail client)
cna...@vnet.ibm.com
>
>Not just that, but they charge through the nose for the network goodies
>MicroSoft cares, they'll give you Windows, Windows NT, Visual C++, MSC
>7.0, Visual BASIC, Microsoft Assembler, Quick C, MS WOrd, Excel, Fox
>Pro, DOS, and a few more things all developers versions for $130. I was
>sold on OS/2 all the way until IBM started ignoring students and MS
>does more out of the box and costs less but it costs a lot in the
>hardware department. OS/2 is better overall, but it costs tons of money
>for you to utilize it. ($200 here and $200 there add up quick)
Ian, for $149, you can get the latest OS/2 2.1, TCP/IP for OS/2 2.0 (beta),
C-Set++, and a lot of other goodies. All you have to do is call 1-800-6DEVCON.
You will get 4 quarterly updates for that price.
I have posted the CMU description that was posted here a few days ago on the
internal IBM forums, and I hope that there will be a response.
Cliff Nadler | "What's the purpose of being an grown up if
IBM FSC | you can't act childish at times",
Internet: cna...@vnet.ibm.com | The Doctor (Tom Baker in Doctor Who)
Note: This post represents the views of the poster not IBM or IBM FSC.
Howard Gilbert
>
>Ian, for $149, you can get the latest OS/2 2.1, TCP/IP for OS/2 2.0 (beta),
>C-Set++, and a lot of other goodies. All you have to do is call 1-800-6DEVCON.
>You will get 4 quarterly updates for that price.
>
>I have posted the CMU description that was posted here a few days ago on the
>internal IBM forums, and I hope that there will be a response.
I considered responding with DEVCON to the original post, but there is
a warning. Technically, the IBM license for material on the DEVCON CD
runs quarterly as well. The current DEVCON CD has a fairly late beta
of TCPIP 2.0, but if the next CD does not include TCPIP then your
license to use TCP expires upon receipt of the next CD.
A valuable response by IBM would be to have a STUDENT CD that
paralleled the DEVCON formula. It would have a license that lasted
for the academic year and would include more stuff that was attractive
to students and less CICS-OS2 junk. It could be rolled into the HESC
system (for RS/6000 software among others), or it could be separate.
This assumes, however, that IBM still has ACIS and has staffed it, for
a change, with people who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
As to the original post:
1) IBM priced OS/2 to sell at software houses and bookstores
2) IBM's 800 number has the worst price
3) The wholesale price on OS/2 CD is $65 (less $30 rebate
makes $35 net to IBM)
The FTP Software PC/TCP can be site licensed by the university
and sold to students. There is no difference between the DOS and OS/2
license. This can drive prices on TCP/IP for the student down to $80
when the DOS+OS2 quantity begins to mount. It also has "DOS Box"
support for Windows applications under WINOS2.
rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu
> rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu writes:
>>OK, so how about $69 + $150 = $219 for OS/2, while NT is $130 + $600 = $730 for
>>the extra 8 megs of RAM you need to run it? Even if/when RAM prices drop
>>again, they won't come down to $89 for 8 megs within the lifetime of the
>>current releases of OS/2 or NT.
>
> OS/2 on my machine. I have a 16MB machine and I think that I will need
> some extra RAM to prevent OS/2 from swapping too much. With 16MB OS/2 is
> very responsive, and I keep an 8MB swapfile .... I find swapping to be a
> big drain on the system responsiveness.
I confess to some ignorance about how much OS/2's networking consumes, in terms
of RAM or disk space; but the fact is that OS/2 without those add-ons requires
about 8 megs less RAM than Windows NT. I find it hard to believe, though, that
networking will consume that much memory. Therefore, to get equivalent system
performance (in terms of amount of swapping), I would *expect* a Windows NT
system to need more RAM than an OS/2 system, even with networking options
added. If you've done some actual tests that show otherwise, please do share
the results.
> Divya
--Rod Smith
RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
Trevor Tompkins
> Last time I checked, your going to pay big bucks for extra ram. How
well does
>
> NT run on these machines in a minimum configuration? OS2 ran fine on
my "old
> 386",
> with a 120 meg RLL drive. I finally upgraded to a 486/66 with 16 meg
of ram,
> but
> I didn't have to. My wife got tired of my "hogging" the machine all
the time,
> and
> insisted I get another PC (how's that for transfering the blame).
Just like you many of us are already using 16 megs.
Trevor Tompkins
> university bookstore (Michigan Technological University). I received my
> $30 rebate from IBM a couple of weeks ago. Final Cost = $40.
>
> You might want to make sure your bookstore isn't selling at an unusually
> high price...
No dispute here!! They definately are charging more for OS/2 products
than outside vendors. When we complain, they just say "more people by
Microsoft." And with the prices we get on Microsoft is it any wonder?
cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
>>> Hate to see what they say once they graduate and have to pay retail like
>>> the rest of us.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> jmc...@access.digex.net Nobody knows the troubles I've seen...
>>> woodb!oss2cc!jmc...@soaf1.ssa.gov .... and nobody cares!
>>> J.MCGING on GEnie 70142,1357 on Compuserve My post, my ideas
>>
>> Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
>>companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
>>me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
>>discounts. Sure, it saves us some money, but don't think for a second that
>>Microsoft is doing it out of the kindness of thier heart.
>
> Gee, that's pretty mercenary of you, isn't it? Here are some novel
> alternatives for determining what product to buy for your company:
>
> 1) base it on which provides the greatest benefit/cost ratio
> 2) base it on which is the best solution to your company's problem
> 3) base it on which is overall the best product
> etc., etc., etc.
>
> Or will you require that they send a free copy to your home in an
> unmarked package for you to buy their product for your company?
>
> The kind of loyalty you're referring to is not too far from bribery.
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keith Bennett Bennett Business Solutions, Inc.
> C++/C Software Development 1605 Ingram Terrace
> kben...@access.digex.net Silver Spring, MD USA 20906-5932
Kieth, you bring up very important parts of making an important
buying desision (i.e. lare purchases for a corp. or university) but
still, if I never used OS/2 (which is the main reason why people don't
buy OS/2, they never try it.), I'm not going to buy it because I don't
have 1st hand experience with it. This is now LOTS of buying decisions
are made. And as far as being sent free samples, most corprate
buyers get 'em.
--
cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu | Microsoft: So, tell me, why did
cor...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu | the NT delopment team get fired?
Mitsu Hadeishi
>> >peripherals/accessories do not get any market share. As a student, I cannot
>> >afford to shell out $700 or so to add TCP/IP and X server and client to my
>> >workstation. I went the better route - got Linux. It works fairly well -
>
>> This statement is purely idiotic! This is NOT how much the referenced
>> capabilities cost! I bought the TCP/IP "total kit", ver 1.2.1 for about
>> $350! That includes NFS, good telnet clients, X server, etc. If you're
>> going to whine about prices, at least compare the real street prices!
>
>> BTW, now there's a third party X-windows product for OS/2, so you are not
>> locked into the supposedly high IBM prices.
>
>$350 still doesn't beat MS's deal.
>--
>Carnegie-Mellon Math/Computer Science Undergrad
>My opinions are not the school's, although they should be!
MS only offers that deal to Carnegie-Mellon students, *no other campus*
gets that deal.
Mitsu Hadeishi
General Partner
Open Mind
cna...@vnet.ibm.com
>
> Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
>companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
>me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
>discounts. Sure, it saves us some money, but don't think for a second that
>Microsoft is doing it out of the kindness of thier heart.
Divya,
I guess my previous response flitted by (with the volume to traffic, I'm not
surprised), but have you heard about the Developer's Connection from IBM? It
includes the TCP/IP stuff (beta level), will give you three updates per year,
and only costs appx. $150. It's available on CD-ROM only, and can be gotten by
calling 1-800-6DEVCON. Have your credit card ready B-).
Jeff Freeman
Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
You'll buy what is available and is priced right at that point in the future.
Rebates and deals move product at the time offered. Computer users seeking price
cuts aren't the most loyal customers by a long shot.
Jeff
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Jeff Freeman 1-800-GO-PORCH Toll-Free VISA/Mastercard
Front Porch Computers 1-706-695-1888 <voice> American Express
4742 Highway 52 Alt. 1-706-695-1990 <fax> Diners Club
Chatsworth, GA 30705 75260,21 Compuserve ID # Carte Blanche
HW/SW/Business equipt. Toll free Order/Support lines in 24 countries!
We handle over 35,000 computer/business related items! We ship Worldwide!
_________________________________________________________________________
Paul Petrucelly
>Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.os2.misc: 8-Oct-93 Re: IBM doesn't care
>about .. by Paul Petru...@phx.sect
>> Excuse me, but does NT run on a 386/33 with 8 meg, or a 486/25 with 8 meg.
>> Last time I checked, your going to pay big bucks for extra ram. How
>well does
>>
>> NT run on these machines in a minimum configuration? OS2 ran fine on
>my "old
>> 386",
>> with a 120 meg RLL drive. I finally upgraded to a 486/66 with 16 meg
>of ram,
>> but
>> I didn't have to. My wife got tired of my "hogging" the machine all
>the time,
>> and
>> insisted I get another PC (how's that for transfering the blame).
>
>Just like you many of us are already using 16 megs.
>
but unlike us, most users do not have 16 meg......
paul
Paul Petrucelly
>In article <1993Oct7...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:
>
> Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
> companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
> me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
>
>You'll buy what is available and is priced right at that point in the future.
>Rebates and deals move product at the time offered. Computer users seeking price
>cuts aren't the most loyal customers by a long shot.
>
>Jeff
>
>--
While much of this thread is bs, the point made by cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu is
very valid. Companies have been doing this since at least the early '60s. IBM
"gave" away computers, and companies like Tek and HP did the same. The idea was
to get students familiar with the product, and hardware so that there would be
a biase towards a particular vendor when these student entered the marketplace.
MickieSoft has picked up on this, and I am
afraid that it will take quite a bit of work to undo the biase they have generated
towards dos and windows over the last 10 years. For so long they were the only
game in town.
David Charlap
>In article <1993Oct7...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> cor...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:
>
> Well, let me tell you this: Students will someday make buying decisions for
> companies. If I remember that IBM gave me a good deal and took care of
> me when I was a student, I'm buying IBM. Thats the reason students get
>
>You'll buy what is available and is priced right at that point in the future.
>Rebates and deals move product at the time offered. Computer users seeking price
>cuts aren't the most loyal customers by a long shot.
A company can't create extra business by giving students a good deal,
but they can destroy future business by not doing so.
I know plenty of people who, _TODAY_, believe that OS/2 is useless
because it doesn't have a graphical interface. These people have had
no exposure since version 1.0, over 10 years ago.
By that same token, a student who has no exposure to a product
probably won't even look at it when considering what packages to
purchase in the future.
I know of professors who believe that only Unix can do multitasking,
and that a PC is incapable of running anything more than DOS. These
people aren't dumb, but the PC OS makers (MS and IBM) have done very
littlt to expose them to the alternative products.
David Charlap
>
>I think you've missed the point of educational discounts. Nobody gives
>educational discounts on all of their products. It's a marketing thing
>if you can get those poor students to try your products, perhaps they
>will like them and spread the word to other students. News travels
>much more quickly in a mass of tens of thousands of students than it
>does between say two programmers who work at different companies in the
>same town. When the students leave if they have good experience with
>your company they are likely to buy your products even without the
>discount.
I'm a perfect example of this.
When I worked for a company for one year (between my undergrad and
graduate studies), the company wanted to upgrade their word processors
from MultiMate Advantage II (a terrible program) to something else.
They chose MS-Word because I had experience with it, and nobody in the
company had experience with anything else. (I know MS-Word because
NJIT gave copies to all students as part of the incoming Freshman
package - probably due to a significant MS discount). If I wasn't
there with my Word expertise, they might have used Word Perfect or
something else instead.
MS got a very good deal (10 copies of Word 5.5, and 2 copies of
PM-Word at full price) from the cheap copy they gave me four years
before that.
Dave Tholen
> I know plenty of people who, _TODAY_, believe that OS/2 is useless
> because it doesn't have a graphical interface. These people have had
> no exposure since version 1.0, over 10 years ago.
You mean 5 years ago? OS/2 version 1.0 wasn't available in 1983.
larry.a.shurr
}order 2.1 at the ~$100 price of upgrade offered this summer.
}Recently, I determined to buy OS/2 2.1, but found that even as a REGISTERED
}OWNER of 2.0, I can only purchase it for ~$180! Anyone can buy it for a little
}over $200.00.
Eh? I've seen the upgrade package available within the past week at
more local stores then ever for as little as $89.
}I'm a student and I can't afford that much; nor do I think it's worth it. Why
}should I buy OS/2 when I can get a DOS upgrade from Gateway for less than $50?
Hmmm... maybe, but I believe the upgrade edition is still readily available.
}Furthermore, they offer no educational discount at all.
Eh? Beg pardon. According to materials I received from their FAX service
you, as student, should be eligible for the National Education Discount.
}Aggressive marketing requires competitive pricing. If IBM wants the college
}student market, or anyone to purchase upgrades for that matter, it really needs
}to think about a $200 price tag.
I've got to admit, that $200 for an upgrade would put me off, but I don't
think that's what it is.
An alternative is for you to get the latest SP for 2.0 which upgrades
you to a 2.1 minus certain pieces (WINOS2 upgrade to 3.1 and MMPM, I
believe). That is free for ftp/download or fee (I heard $25) for a
set of diskettes.
Larry
--
Larry A. Shurr (l...@cbnmva.att.com) speaking only for myself.
Norman, listen carefully. I am lying. Are you sure your circuits are
registering? Your ears are green. Logic is a little bird singing in a
meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad! - Mr. Spock
Tom Branham
>Eh? Beg pardon. According to materials I received from their FAX service
>
those interactive fax thingies?? Nifty! whadda i gotta do? :-)
tom branham
tbra...@lucy.wellesley.edu
Jonathan F Grande
> C-Set++, and a lot of other goodies. All you have to do is call
1-800-6DEVCON.
> You will get 4 quarterly updates for that price.
>
Are you sure about this? According to the September 15
_Developers_Support_News_ that I ftped from ftp.cdrom.com, it doesn't
say anything about including C-Set++. Also, now that TCP/IP for OS/2
2.0 is out, do the CDs still have some form of TCP/IP?
Here is a portion of the _Developers_Support_News_ that tells what
is in it. Nothing about C-Set++ :-(
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents
--------
The Developer Connection CD provides release-level versions of the
Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1 (which includes the Multimedia
Presentation Manager Toolkit/2 1.1) and the Pen for OS/2 Developer's
Toolkit 1.0. It also includes pre-release code that allows the developer
to create user environments to test and develop software. Pre-release
versions of development and productivity tools are also provided. A
limited license to developers for the following products is included on
the initial 1993 CD:
o Multimedia Presentation Manager/2 Version 1.1
o Multimedia UltiMotion (Video IN)
o Motion Video AVI Files
o Communications Manager for OS/2 (single-user)
o Networking Services/DOS (NSDOS)
o PL/I Workstation/2
o TCP/IP for OS/2
o HyperWrite
o PM Automated Test Environment (PMATE)
o Workstation Interactive Test Tool (WITT)
Pre-release code contents of The Developer Connection CD may change
periodically. The pre-release code may be modified substantially before
general availability. IBM does not guarantee that any of the programs
contained in the pre-release section will become generally available.
The CD also includes more than 50,000 pages of the latest softcopy
documentation on OS/2 from IBM. Documentation for the various
pre-release products on the CD is also provided. The following are
included on the initial CD:
o OS/2 Technical Library
o Communications Manager Technical Library
o REXX information
o TCP/IP information
o Using Workplace OS/2
o Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit information
A limited license to developers for the release versions of the
following is included on the initial 1993 CD:
o OS/2 2.1 Demonstration (subsequent issues of the CD may contain the
most current pre-release version of OS/2)
o The Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1 (includes the Multimedia
Presentation Manager Toolkit/2 1.1)
o Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 1.0.
Both the softcopy documentation and the release-level products will be
updated as needed.
The Developer Connection CD features a powerful browser for easy
navigation through the large amounts of information and code on the CD.
The Developer Connection News offers information about IBM personal
operating systems, new products, and technical articles direct from OS/2
development. For instance, Workplace Operating Systems are examined in
the initial 1993 issue.
Back issues of The Developer Connection News will also be available in
displayable softcopy format in future releases of The Developer
Connection CD.
Volume 1 of the Developer Connection CD includes limited licenses to the
following products:
Bitmaps
o BITMAP32: A 32-bit bitmap viewer (I)
o Bitmap Samples: Samples of Developer Connection bitmaps (I)
Communication Tools
o APPC Games: A collection of three games - CYCLES, REVERSI, MANDPM (I)
o APPC Utilities: A collection of six APPC command-line utilities (I)
o IBM: Communications Manager for OS/2 Applications (single user):
diskettes (P)
o IBM: Communications Manager for OS/2 (single user): diskettes (P)
o IBM: Communications Manager for OS/2 (single user) (P)
o DBMRPW: A database manager remote password administrator utility (I)
o DIRSTAT: A PM application that displays LAN adapter information (I)
o IBM: Networking Services/DOS: diskettes (P)
o PMFTERM: An OS/2 asynchronous emulation and file transfer utility (I)
o IBM TCP/IP: diskettes (P)
Development Tools
o IBM: 32BIT -- 32-Bit OS/2 Toolkit Utilities (P)
o ALPHA: A code browser and analysis program (I)
o ASDT32: An application/system 32-bit debug utility (I)
o IBM: CICS OS/2 v2.0: diskettes (P)
o IBM: SAA CUA Controls Library/2 (P)
o CTFORMAT: A code and text formatter (I)
o Data Access: DataFlex v3.0 (demo)
o IBM: Kernel Debugger: diskettes (R)
o IBM: Kernel Debugger (R)
o IBM: DLGEDIT - Dialog Editor enhanced for Pen for OS/2 Support (P)
o EDITINI: An OS/2 text editor for .INI and profile files (I)
o IBM: Graphics Interface Kit/2 (demo): diskettes
o HEXDUMP: A hexadecimal display and conversion utility (I)
o IBROW: An image browser utility (I)
o IPFCREP: A preprocessor for the IPF compiler (I)
o Transcendetal Automation: LR by Transcendental Automation v1.0
(demo): diskettes
o IBM: The Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1: 3.5-Inch Diskettes (R)
o IBM: The Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1: 5.25-Inch Diskettes (R)
o IBM: The Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1
o IBM: Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit: diskettes (R)
o IBM: Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit (R)
o IBM: PL/I Workstation/2: Diskettes (P)
o RXAPPC: REXX Communication APIs (I)
o RXMATHFC: A REXX DLL with C-language math functions (I)
o RXNETB: REXX APIs for the OS/2 NetBIOS (I)
o Softbridge: Softbridge Basic Language (Demo): diskette
o HockWare: VisPro/REXX v1.0 (demo): diskettes
o Visual REXX: A library of REXX functions that provide a PM interface
(I)
o WPSHELL: A collection of Workplace Shell samples (P)
Editors
o IBM: EPM - Enhanced Editor (P)
o IBM: HyperWrite (P)
o MicroEdge: SlickEdit v2.3 (demo)
o TINYED: A tiny OS/2 and DOS Editor (I)
IBM OS/2
o IBM: OS/2 2.1: 3.5-Inch Diskettes (demo)
o IBM: OS/2 2.1: 5.25-Inch Diskettes (demo)
o IBM: OS/2 2.1 CD-ROM: 3.5-Inch Installation Diskettes (demo)
o IBM: OS/2 2.1 CD-ROM: 5.25-Inch Installation Diskettes (demo)
Multimedia Tools
o CD Explorer: A compact-disk audio explorer (I)
o IBM: MMPM/2 v1.0 Toolkit and Base (R)
o IBM: MMPM/2 v1.1 Base (R)
o IBM: MMPM/2 v1.1 Toolkit (R)
o IBM: MMPM/2 v1.1 Base: 3.5-Inch Diskettes (R)
o IBM: MMPM/2 v1.1 Base: 5.25-Inch Diskettes (R)
o BOCASoft: BOCASoft System Sounds v1.0 (demo)
o IBM: Multimedia Ultimotion (Video IN) (P)
o BOCASoft: BOCASoft WipeOut v1.0 (demo): diskette
Productivity Tools
o BOOTOS2: An OS/2 bootable diskette creation utility (I)
o DINFO: A swapper file monitor (I)
o FORBROWS: A forum browser (I)
o GPSCLOCK: A digital clock for your desktop (I)
o GSEE: A file search utility and batch file builder (I)
o MAGNIFY: An OS/2 desktop magnifier (I)
o OS20MEMU: An OS/2 memory utilization utility (I)
o PMDRAW: An OS/2 graphics editor (I)
o PMGlobe: A display of planet Earth as a globe (I)
o PMTIMER: An OS/2 Program Timer (I)
o PMTREE: A graphical display of PM windows (I)
o QCONFIG: A system configuration display utility (I)
o UTIL2: AIX-like utilities for OS/2 (I)
o VIEWALL: An OS/2 program that displays all OS/2 books on the
bookshelf (I)
o Arcadia Technologies: Workplace Companion v1.53 (demo): diskettes
Test Tools
o Softbridge: Automated Test Facility Workstation and ATF Networked
(demo): diskettes
o IBM: PMATE - Automated Test Environment (P)
o IBM: WITT - Workstation Interactive Test Tool (demo): diskettes
Books
o Van Nostrand Reinhold, The OS/2 2.1 Corporate Programmer's Handbook,
by Nora Sholin, Martin Sullivan, Robin Scragg (*)
o Van Nostrand Reinhold, Using Workplace OS/2, by Lori Brown, Jeff
Howard (*)
o Wiley Professional Computing, Designing OS/2 Applications, by David
Reich (*)
o Van Nostrand Reinhold, Writing OS/2 2.1 Device Drivers in C, by
Steven J. Mastrianni (*)
o OS/2 2.1 Technical Update
o Red Book Volume 1: Control Program
o Red Book Volume 2: DOS and Windows Environments
o OS/2 Command Reference
o Application Design Guide
o CP Guide and Reference
o PM Programming Reference
o Tools Reference
o Virtual Device Driver Reference
o IPF Reference
o REXX User's Guide
o REXX Reference
o Presentation Driver Reference
o Debug Kernel Reference
o PM Programming Guide Volume 1
o PM Programming Guide Volume 2
o PM Programming Guide Volume 3
o SOM Reference
o Communications Manager/2: ACDI Programming Reference
o Communications Manager/2: Application Programming Guide
o Communications Manager/2: Command Reference
o Communications Manager/2: Message Reference
o Communications Manager/2: Overview
o Communications Manager/2: Problem Determination Guide
Key: * = excerpts
I = IBM-developed software
P = Pre-release software
R = Release-level products
demo = demonstration products
Machine Requirements
--------------------
o System must support OS/2 2.x.
o CD-ROM drive supported by OS/2 2.x.
o Memory: Minimum 6 MB, recommended 10 MB. Actual memory required
varies depending on which programs you run.
o Disk space:
- Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1, 24 MB of free disk space
- Multimedia Presentation Manager Toolkit/2 1.1 (included in
Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1), 15 MB of free disk space
- Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 1.0, 10 MB of free disk space
Actual disk space required varies depending on the requirements of
the programs you install.
Programming Requirements
------------------------
Installation and execution of programs contains on The Developer
Connection CD requires OS/2 2.0 or higher. Additional or special
requirements may be dictated by the specific program being installed or
executed.
The initial 1993 CD contains a limited license to developers for the
following products (additional or special requirements specified):
o OS/2 2.1 Demonstration (subsequent issues of the CD may contain the
most current pre-release version of OS/2)
o Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1
- OS/2 2.0 or OS/2 2.1
- 32-bit C compiler (recommended) or 32-bit assembler is required
o Multimedia Presentation Manager Toolkit/2 1.1 (included in
Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 2.1)
- OS/2 2.1
- 32-bit C compiler is required
o Pen for OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 1.0
- OS/2 2.1
- 32-bit C compiler is required
/--------------------------------------\
| Jonathan Grande |
| jg...@andrew.cmu.edu |
| |
| Proud user of OS/2 |
\--------------------------------------/
rsm...@pearl.tufts.edu
Call 1-800-426-3395 and follow the instructions. Note that you do NOT have to
call from your fax machine; the computer will ask for the number to which you
want to have things faxed, and will then call that number. You DO, however,
need to call from a touch-tone phone. I think you're limited to something
like four or five documents per call, but you can call multiple times. Much
of the information on this service is available by anonymous ftp, too, and
(as of a couple of months ago) most of it was outdated, with lots of
references to OS/2 2.0, and few (if any) to OS/2 2.1.
--Rod Smith
RSM...@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU
Janet Gobeille
g> Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
g> Organization: UF Ag Eng Team OS/2
g> Reply-To: gde...@agen.ufl.edu
g> Call Indelible Blue @ 1 800 776 8284 for some more
g> reasonable prices. I've been using OS/2 for
g> some time, and have had many dealings with IBM. I've found
g> their technical support to be
g> excellent, and despite my "student" status, they could not
g> have been more courteous or helpful.
And if you're a student and want an OS/2 poster to put in your computer lab,
contact us and we'll send you one. Just send
a note to:
luv...@vnet.ibm.com
along with the name of the school (including city, state, and country), and your
name and mailing address. We've sent many out already, but have a few more
left.
Janet Gobeille - Internet: Jan...@vnet.ibm.com
Fidonet: Janet at 1:109/347.3479