PLEASE READ THIS DOOM THREAD NOW!
Nathan Jones
I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
Perhaps a nice small screen COUPLED with FAIRLY lo-res..
Please, if anyone can hear me: Please make a DOOM-clone that can
be PLAYED on my 68000 and some NON-AGA!
BTW: That "Higher Spec
" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
--
"Who'll ever need more than 640K of RAM?" -Bill Gates
NPJ ----> On Amiga AutoPilot 1.80
Michael D Shotter
: WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
Textdemo
: BTW: That "Higher Spec
: " thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
: some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
: anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
: price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
Get a clue. You know, there is a pretty big performance gap BETWEEN
an A4000/40 and a 7 MHZ 68000, which is where MOST Amiga users today fall.
I don't know anybody still using an Amiga who has anything less than the
EC020 in the 1200 with some fast ram. Don't even give me that "It's too
expensive to upgrade" crap either. Open your eyes! 030 cards are DIRT CHEAP
these days. Hell, if you can't afford at least an 020 card, you can't afford
to BUY ANY Doom clone, AGA or otherwise. I shudder to think what OS version
you're using. (1.3 maybe)
Posts like this really slay me. People thinking that a 7 MHZ 68000 is
magicly capable of powering a passable texture maped engine, just because
it happens to reside in an Amiga. Amigas are great machines, but they're NOT
that great. You DO need something under the hood if you expect to race. For
example: You wouldn't enter a go cart in the Indy 500, because even though
a go cart could make it around the track, it would be so damn slow that it
wouldn't be worth the effort. Now, slap a jet engine on the go cart, and
you're getting somewhere. :)
- Mike -
: --
Jason Hutchens
>I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
>be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
>without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
>BTW: That "Higher Spec
>" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
>some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
>anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
>price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
You are contradicting yourself. A playable DOOM clone requires a
high spec machine.
You should be able to play the "TextDemo" games, but that's about
it. And they'll be painfully slow unless you either upgrade your
machine or buy a 4000.
J.
--
******** Mr. Jason L Hutchens *********
* AMIGA/Ev3.1a/TMBG/IF/PS-X/JJJ/3DO/WWW * E-mail: hu...@ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au
* Visit my home page to talk to MegaHAL * http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch
*****************************************
Agust Arni Jonsson
>Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>>I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
>>be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
>>without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
>>BTW: That "Higher Spec
>>" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
>>some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
>>anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
>>price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
>You are contradicting yourself. A playable DOOM clone requires a
>high spec machine.
>You should be able to play the "TextDemo" games, but that's about
>it. And they'll be painfully slow unless you either upgrade your
>machine or buy a 4000.
Works fine, if a little slowly on my a2000/ec030-25/882-25...
It's always the same IMO. Some people seem to think that all there is to
the world is ocs/000-7 machines and aga/020/030/040 machines...
What about the rest of us caught in the middle with ocs/020/030/040 ????
Must WE suffer???? All the time ????
--
Agust "Nemesis1" a...@rhi.hi.is http://www.rhi.hi.is/~aaj
Derek James
Nathan Jones (7375...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
NJ> WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
NJ> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
NJ> be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
NJ> without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
NJ> Perhaps a nice small screen COUPLED with FAIRLY lo-res..
NJ> Please, if anyone can hear me: Please make a DOOM-clone that can be
NJ> PLAYED on my 68000 and some NON-AGA!
Amiga Computing is reporting about a game called 'Behind the Iron Gate' which
will run on the 500. Usual first-person 3D perspective and along with the
shoot-em-up aspect will have an element of RPG/adventure.
Promised to "run at a fair old speed", their quote.
Being produced by Union Interactive, a Polish outfit.
---
DJ dja...@draig.demon.co.uk
Keurentjes
In article <3uc694$7td$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
Never, coz' the machines don't have the capacity CPU-wise and gfx-wise.
> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
> be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
> without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
Then join the rest of us and buy a recent machine.
> Perhaps a nice small screen COUPLED with FAIRLY lo-res..
VERY VERY lowres...... :)
> Please, if anyone can hear me: Please make a DOOM-clone that can
> be PLAYED on my 68000 and some NON-AGA!
>
> BTW: That "Higher Spec" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s.
> Just because some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
> anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
> price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
I'm the one who started the high-spec thread, and I'm actually typing this on
a run-of-the-mill 6Mb A1200 with FPU...... Not exactly high-spec, don't you
think! The fact is that almost noone has an a4000/40, simply because there is
no need to: the only programs taking advantage are raytracers and other GFX-
hungry applications. The point was that I would be prepared to fork out for a
high-spec machine if I had an incentive, and I don't do enough raytracing to
warrant the expense. A full-screen pixeled Doom-clone would be a nice incen-
tive, especially if it had some adventure elements, and if this wonder-game
would sell Escom enough top-end machines, more developers would jump on the
bandwagon with their Magic Carpets and 3d Syndicates. As it stands today, we
sadly enough don't know any developer with the guts to be the first.
Anyway, what you're saying about the price/performance ratio is still valid.
Many games that work on standard A500's require a 386 or better on IBM com-
puters, which shows the Amiga's capacities well enough since a 386 is MANY
times faster than an 68000. But you can't expect an 68000 to do the same as
a Pentium that is 25 times more expensive and supposedly 100 times faster.
If it could, Intel would be as we all want it to be: a black page in history.
Niels
Renze de Ruiter
> BTW: That "Higher Spec" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL
> have A4000/040s. Just because some people who make too much
> money can afford one doesn't mean anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm unemployed, and I own an A4000/030 -- payed for the whole thing myself.
What's your problem?
--
.****.
*____* Renze de Ruiter UUCP: re...@trans.manawatu.gen.nz
(_/\_) Renze on IRC PGP public key available on request
| `' | ---------------------------------------------------
`.~~.' "Two most common elements: Hydrogen and Stupidity"
""
James McArthur
: In article <3uc694$7td$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
: > BTW: That "Higher Spec" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL
: > have A4000/040s. Just because some people who make too much
: > money can afford one doesn't mean anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: I'm unemployed, and I own an A4000/030 -- payed for the whole thing myself.
: What's your problem?
If software companies make games for the lowest Amiga in use, then it might
keep a few people happy, but in the end the whole Amiga market will suffer.
: --
: ""
Maxwell Daymon
: It's always the same IMO. Some people seem to think that all there is to
: What about the rest of us caught in the middle with ocs/020/030/040 ????
: Must WE suffer???? All the time ????
We must. What's worse is those of us with ECS/040 and a graphics card
like a CyberVision capable of *FAST* games.
We seem to be as untouchable as OCS/7MHz 68000.
--
+------------------------------------+ the truth is out there...
| Maxx Daymon -+- mda...@rmii.com |
+------------------------------------+ ...deny everything
Nathan Jones
my question at all, just flamed me because I have an ECS (note not OCS)
68000. And DOOM can be done on a low-end machine if you put up with
a small screen and lo-resolution. (look at DOOMED. Terrible res, but
full-screen, 50fps on a 68000)
Look: I'm 14 years old and I make about $10 a week, so I apologize if
I can't afford some $4,000 machine. I was lucky to get the $400
machine I got. (an A600)
PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT I _CAN_ play, not how I should buy a better machine.
BTW: I CAN'T play textdemo because it requires an '020.
ONCE AGAIN, A BETTER MACHINE IS OUT OF THE QUESTION, SO JUST TELL ME WHAT
I CAN PLAY!
Keurentjes
In article <3ugr6s$g5$2...@mhadg.production.compuserve.com> Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> Sorry, but I can't afford your higher spec machines. No one has answered
> my question at all, just flamed me because I have an ECS (note not OCS)
> 68000. And DOOM can be done on a low-end machine if you put up with
> a small screen and lo-resolution. (look at DOOMED. Terrible res, but
> full-screen, 50fps on a 68000)
>
> Look: I'm 14 years old and I make about $10 a week, so I apologize if
> I can't afford some $4,000 machine. I was lucky to get the $400
> machine I got. (an A600)
Gosh, I paid the same for my A1200!!
Or rather, my brother did! Ain't that a great idea, sharing your computer with
your big brother? Mine is probably going to buy some sort of A4000 as soon as
Escom rerelease them.
This way I can save money for guitars and my own computer and STILL have a
high-spec machine!
It's so easy........
(don't ask to be made fun off, 'coz we'll all do it with sadistic pleasure!)
Niels
Maxwell Daymon
: BTW: That "Higher Spec
: " thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
: some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
: price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
Look, there is room - no there is a VACUUM in the market for high spec
games. No, not EVERYTHING is possible with a system that based on
technology over a decade old. There's going to be software that simply
needs:
AGA
a fast processor
AGA *and* a fast processor (030+ 25MHz+)
Graphics card *and* a fast processor
Believe it or not, Doom is one of those games that falls into the latter
two categories. You aren't going to get something like DOOM II for the
Mac (640x400) on a 7MHz 68000. You can only push so far.
There are VERY few high-spec AND performance games for the Amiga. No, if
you aren't willing to invest in the machine, you can't play them. You can
play stuff like "Behind the Iron Gate"
With a 16MHz 68020 going for $99, I have to REALLY question whether
you're in the market to _buy_ these games when they come out anyway.
Maxwell Daymon
: Look: I'm 14 years old and I make about $10 a week, so I apologize if
: I can't afford some $4,000 machine. I was lucky to get the $400
: machine I got. (an A600)
You don't need $4000. A 68020 only costs $99 (Software Hut, 800-93-AMIGA)
Go mow some lawns or something. I made over $100 in a good week mowing
lawns. That's a 68020 for you in a single week.
: PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT I _CAN_ play, not how I should buy a better machine.
: BTW: I CAN'T play textdemo because it requires an '020.
Read above.
: ONCE AGAIN, A BETTER MACHINE IS OUT OF THE QUESTION, SO JUST TELL ME WHAT
: I CAN PLAY!
So enhance your machine or accept that you aren't going to get any Doom
caliber games any time soon. Yes, there are games like "Behind the Iron
Gate" that use a freely rotating engine, and there's stuff like Legends
of Valor (TINY screen), but other than that you're out of luck with such
a machine.
Maxwell Daymon
: In article <3uf35k$h...@natasha.rmii.com>, mda...@rainbow.rmii.com (Maxwell Daymon) says:
: >We must. What's worse is those of us with ECS/040 and a graphics card
: >
: >We seem to be as untouchable as OCS/7MHz 68000.
: Well we are developing Shade for various graphics cards so your system
: seems to be ideal to me. In fact most graphics card will give a 20-30
I *WILL* buy your product if you support me. I have been wanting a good
3-D tmaped game and I've been holding out in my Amiga fortress with 68040
and graphic card instead of going to a hideous PC. (Okay, I admit I use
ShapeShifter to play Marathon)
However, TextDemo does on a 25MHz 68030 what Marathon needs a 33MHz 68040
to get CLOSE to, and even then it doesn't do it as well.
: speed increase over an equally equiped machine running AGA graphics. Also
: we are supporting EHB (ecs) graphics which we have improved quite a bit
: since the last released demo (TextDemo57).
Really? I'm already stunned by TextDemo57. I ran Doom on a 25MHz 386 and
TextDemo on a 25MHz 68030 Amiga and TextDemo was MUCH smoother. Don't
even talk about my 040 or you might get scorched. In a small window
TextDemo reports ~90fps or so.
(In fact, I *think* it crashes if you go over 100fps, but I'm not quite
sure since I haven't gotten it to reliably crash.)
Reliably crash, isn't that ironic.
Richard Bemrose
>Sorry, but I can't afford your higher spec machines. No one has answered
>my question at all, just flamed me because I have an ECS (note not OCS)
>68000. And DOOM can be done on a low-end machine if you put up with
>a small screen and lo-resolution. (look at DOOMED. Terrible res, but
>full-screen, 50fps on a 68000)
>
>I can't afford some $4,000 machine. I was lucky to get the $400
>machine I got. (an A600)
Hmmm... if you just want to play game perhaps you`d be better off buying a SEGA
Saturn, Nintendo or similar. That`s probably in you price range.
>PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT I _CAN_ play, not how I should buy a better machine.
>BTW: I CAN'T play textdemo because it requires an '020.
>
>ONCE AGAIN, A BETTER MACHINE IS OUT OF THE QUESTION, SO JUST TELL ME WHAT
>I CAN PLAY!
Well... haven`t you already answered you own question; DOOMED.
But the rest of us, who have a bit more money, want to see the Amiga develope
in to a high specification machine which, IMHO, it`s main concern is serious
productive applications and graphics which _also_ has the ability to play the
latest games.
I don`t hear many 286 PC owners crying out that the latest game can not run on
their machine. Why? Simple, they have upgraded to a 486.
Regards,
Rich
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ /// Only
_/ Richard Bemrose | Sheffield Hallam University _/ /// Amiga
_/ r.be...@shu.ac.uk | Materials Research Institute _/ \\\/// makes it
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ \XX/ possible
Chris Mair
>We must. What's worse is those of us with ECS/040 and a graphics card
>like a CyberVision capable of *FAST* games.
>
>We seem to be as untouchable as OCS/7MHz 68000.
Well we are developing Shade for various graphics cards so your system
seems to be ideal to me. In fact most graphics card will give a 20-30
speed increase over an equally equiped machine running AGA graphics. Also
we are supporting EHB (ecs) graphics which we have improved quite a bit
since the last released demo (TextDemo57).
Chris Mair
Chris Mair
>BTW: I CAN'T play textdemo because it requires an '020.
>
>ONCE AGAIN, A BETTER MACHINE IS OUT OF THE QUESTION, SO JUST TELL ME WHAT
>I CAN PLAY!
Sorry we couldn't get TextDemo to run fast enough on an 020. Why don't you keep
your eyes open for a Polish game called Za Zelenza Brama..I think they are converting
it to english. It is a wonderful Wolf-3d type game which uses a dithered
wall engine (similar to the demo walls on aminet) and it runs very fast on
a stock Amiga. It isn't the same a Doom by any means but it is a fast fun
3D engine that I enjoyed.
Chris Mair
Andre' Barton
>> BTW: That "Higher Spec" thread is really annoying: We don't ALL
>> have A4000/040s. Just because some people who make too much
>> money can afford one doesn't mean anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>What's your problem?
The problem is...there is competition:>.
Because while your average game playing Joe off the street is saving
up for that (A4000/030/40) the PC Clone will become a more and more
attractive option.
Mostly only serious Amigans would be willing to spend $$$ extra for
a A4000 the rest of the other gameplaying non-Amigans will opt out
for the seemly better Clone deal, that is a lost opptunity for new
blood, which is vital for a companys growth.
BTW How much did your A4000/30/? cost?.
Cheers,
--
an...@andrez.equinox.gen.nz Be Pure
Amiga1200+DKB030/50/8 Be Vigilant
Amiga500+GVPII+2meg Most of all Behave! ..Torquemada2000AD
John Hendrikx
NJ> WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
NJ> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
NJ> be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
NJ> without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
You're joking right? There is a reason why DOOM requires a 486 to run
comfortably.
NJ> Perhaps a nice small screen COUPLED with FAIRLY lo-res..
Oh yes, now that would surely make the game playable.. not.
NJ> Please, if anyone can hear me: Please make a DOOM-clone that can be
NJ> PLAYED on my 68000 and some NON-AGA!
Get realistic, no matter what you do it won't ever be playable on standard
68000 since it would be so lo-res and so incredibly small that you can't
distinguish anything from each other, or it will be so slow that you can take a
coffee break after each frame. Face it, 7MHz 68000 is not really the ideal
processor for DOOM.
NJ> BTW: That "Higher Spec
NJ> " thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just
NJ> because some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean
NJ> anyone can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high
NJ> price/performance ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
But you can't expect to get the same performance from your 68000 as a faster
processor. DOOM clones are something relatively new, and were -designed- with
FAST processors in mind. Do you really think your pathetic 68000 could handle
DOOM in a playable form?
You are still using an (atleast) 10 year old processor, and you expect that it
can run a game designed for the latest processors available? The computer
industry moves fast. The performance of processors has 100 folded in these
last ten years. Can you imagine what it means to do a DOOM-clone on a
processor with only 1/100th of the CPU power of the processor it was designed
for?
Oh, and the Amiga hardware (blitter and such) is really of no much help to do a
DOOM clone so don't expect to see miracles by using them.
NJ> "Who'll ever need more than 640K of RAM?" -Bill Gates NPJ ----> On Amiga
NJ> AutoPilot 1.80
If you stick to your 68000 then you're not much better than BG (okay, I
apologize for comparing you with something so low :-)). It is like saying 'Who
will ever need more CPU power than the 68000?'
Now to get back to your question:
NJ> WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
There already is (atleast) one, called TextDemo. However, I've decided that
optimizing it for 68020 processors and higher was the best thing to do since
68000's can't do the job anyway, so it won't run on your machine.
Grtz John
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John.H...@grafix.xs4all.nl TextDemo/FastView/Etc... development
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Via Xenolink 1.96, XenolinkUUCP 1.1
John Hendrikx
>> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must be
>> SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000 without
>> resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
>> BTW: That "Higher Spec
>> " thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
>> some people who make too much money can afford one doesn't mean anyone
>> can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought my amiga for its high price/performance
>> ratio, not the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
JH> You are contradicting yourself. A playable DOOM clone requires a high
JH> spec machine.
JH> You should be able to play the "TextDemo" games, but that's about it.
JH> And they'll be painfully slow unless you either upgrade your machine or
JH> buy a 4000.
Sorry, I decided right from the beginning that TextDemo would be completely
written with the 68020 (and higher) processors in mind. This means it uses
great amounts of 68020 specific instructions and will never run on 68000
machines (unless someone convinces me financially). I've decided this because
68000 machines wouldn't be able to handle the TextDemo engine anyway at
anywhere near decent speed, and because optimizing for 68020 would give those
machines an extra speed boost, instead of having to run much slower 68000
compatible code.
Neil Clark
Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
>Look: I'm 14 years old and I make about $10 a week, so I apologize if
>I can't afford some $4,000 machine. I was lucky to get the $400
>machine I got. (an A600)
Sorry Nathan, but that's life :-) Now, I don't want to sound like an old,
but when I was your age I had to make do with a 48K ZX Spectrum. And I was
bloody grateful. Yes, I was. You didn't hear me whinging about the lack of
texture mapped 3D games on this machine. I was happy with Manic Miner and all
the rest. They were better anyway ;-)
Don't worry about it too much though - a high spec machine takes all the
fun out of programming.
--
Neil Clark
Telepresence researcher
University of Strathclyde
"I can create a fire anywhere with a few hours and two old cliches"
Big Will Riker
> WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
never hopefully.
>
> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must
> be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
> without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
well then UPGRADE!
> BTW: That "Higher Spec
> " thread is really annoying: We don't ALL have A4000/040s. Just because
I dont have an a4000/040 - just an 030. not that expensive nowadays
Steve.
___________________________________________________________________________
/ <--== Amiga ==--> Developer | Current Project : BlitzBombers \
| sis...@anubis.sis.port.ac.uk | [###########################:::::::] |
\____________________________________|______________________________________/
Chris Mair
>I *WILL* buy your product if you support me. I have been wanting a good
>3-D tmaped game and I've been holding out in my Amiga fortress with 68040
>and graphic card instead of going to a hideous PC. (Okay, I admit I use
>ShapeShifter to play Marathon)
Well I am glad to hear you will buy our product _if_ we support you. That
is one of the main goals of our products. We hope to make our games work
with most Amigas out there. The only thing minimally you will require will
be at least an 020 and a hard drive. We figure anyone that has an 020 or
greater is bound to have a hard drive.
>Really? I'm already stunned by TextDemo57. I ran Doom on a 25MHz 386 and
>TextDemo on a 25MHz 68030 Amiga and TextDemo was MUCH smoother. Don't
>even talk about my 040 or you might get scorched. In a small window
>TextDemo reports ~90fps or so.
Shade will take advantage of your system. It will use 020 or 040 specific
code depending on your hardware. It will allow you to select the screen
modes available to you and it will take advantage of 32 bit mem etc. Since
the last release the bugs have been removed. The textdemo engine no longer
crashes. There also is no more screen interference. The EHB and AGA modes
look WAY better. EHB IMHO is very nice looking (looks tons better than in
5.7) and AGA looks incredible.
>Reliably crash, isn't that ironic.
Sorry but I can't make it crash at all anymore.... I guess we could hard
code a crash if you type 'MAXWELL' or something :)...
Chris
Neil Clark
Maxwell Daymon <mda...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
>
>even talk about my 040 or you might get scorched. In a small window
>TextDemo reports ~90fps or so.
Bizarrely enough, I can't really see much difference in speed between
TextDemo on my 1200/030/50 and my 4000/040. Is it optimized for the '030
or something ? Mind you, it's still cool as ice. I recall fondly memories
of demonstrating it to a skeptic who claimed Amigas can't do things like
this one drunken night. Hoho.
Neil Clark
Maxwell Daymon <mda...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
>
>Go mow some lawns or something. I made over $100 in a good week mowing
>lawns. That's a 68020 for you in a single week.
You'd make a brilliant Thatcher child Maxwell ! ;-)
Nobody mows lawns in Britain though. Perhaps the nearest equivalent would
be washing cars, which I did now and then. Strange really, when you think
about it. With all our rain, you'd expect lawns to grow more, yet people
should have less opportunity to wash cars. Ah well, back to Kafka :)
Nathan Jones
What I'm looking for is a _GAME_ (note not empty demo ala doomed) that
runs on my machine acceptably. I'd like a list of such availability.
I am NOT asking for something as good as DOOM. Good god no. I'm not
that stupid. In fact, I'm making a DOOM-clone myself, and have had
to make many concessions for my machine.
Thanks to those have been useful by telling me about this Za Zelazna
Brama thing and Legends Of Valour. Are there more?
You know, it is really interesting to see adults acting more childish
than I ever could if I tried.
Look people, I'm not buying another machine (at the moment) but I AM
sticking with the Amiga. (No I'm not going to buy Sega/Nonmindo simply
because I can't stand game systems. I do do useful things w/my machine
FYI such as programming)
I don't look on my computer as a game system, I just wanted to know
what will run on my machine: NOT WHAT I CAN'T RUN!
If there are no more wolf games than shut up and stop this thread. I'm
sick of those snobbish assholes who'd waste my time and theirs flaunting
their powerful machine and tell me how lame I am for asking.
--
"Who'll ever need more than 640K of RAM?" -Bill Gates
NPJ ----> On Amiga AutoPilot 1.80
Agust Arni Jonsson
>Well we are developing Shade for various graphics cards so your system
>seems to be ideal to me. In fact most graphics card will give a 20-30
>speed increase over an equally equiped machine running AGA graphics. Also
>we are supporting EHB (ecs) graphics which we have improved quite a bit
>since the last released demo (TextDemo57).
YAAAHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
John Vlachos
I hear you.
Download DamageWolf3d. Its the best Wolf3D/DOOM clone ever. Make sure you get V1.6, as 1.5 is a littleslow.
You WILL LOVE it.
Chief Editor/Founder of AmigaLink Magazine.
John Vlachos
Internet: STA...@ROCKPILE.COM C-LINK NET: Static@911:6415/4.0
--MetaUseNet v3.2 [CNet Amiga]
Maxwell Daymon
: Maxwell Daymon <mda...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
: >Go mow some lawns or something. I made over $100 in a good week mowing
: >lawns. That's a 68020 for you in a single week.
: Nobody mows lawns in Britain though. Perhaps the nearest equivalent would
: be washing cars, which I did now and then. Strange really, when you think
I considered that, but I *think* I remember checking the original
posters address. Then again, maybe it was simply "Compuserve" I don't recall.
: about it. With all our rain, you'd expect lawns to grow more, yet people
: should have less opportunity to wash cars. Ah well, back to Kafka :)
;-) Well, I figure there's much one can do even at $14 to make enough to
buy a $99 68020. I figure 14MHz 68020 is the low end now and it's
accessable to most any Amiga.
Maxwell Daymon
: Thanks to those have been useful by telling me about this Za Zelazna
: Brama thing and Legends Of Valour. Are there more?
"Behind the Iron Gate" is one I think I mentioned. It's free scrolling,
but the walls aren't "brick" or anything - just shaded colors.
Really though, a $99 68020 is a far cry from the A4000/040 or even $500
A1200 people might suggest. Not too far off and certainly worth it.
Maxwell Daymon
: mda...@rainbow.rmii.com (Maxwell Daymon) says:
: > [deleted]
: >Really? I'm already stunned by TextDemo57. I ran Doom on a 25MHz 386 and
: Shade will take advantage of your system. It will use 020 or 040 specific
: code depending on your hardware. It will allow you to select the screen
: modes available to you and it will take advantage of 32 bit mem etc. Since
Aaargh! Gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!
: the last release the bugs have been removed. The textdemo engine no longer
: crashes. There also is no more screen interference. The EHB and AGA modes
: look WAY better. EHB IMHO is very nice looking (looks tons better than in
: 5.7) and AGA looks incredible.
I NEED it! Gotta have it! Oh what ecstacy!
: >Reliably crash, isn't that ironic.
: Sorry but I can't make it crash at all anymore.... I guess we could hard
: code a crash if you type 'MAXWELL' or something :)...
No, thanks anyway. I'll take the no-crash version! ;-)
Andrew Roehrig
: Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
: You are contradicting yourself. A playable DOOM clone requires a
: high spec machine.
I don't think he means "DOOM *clone*", just a DOOM-type (first-person,
texture-mapped) game. Take a look at "Trick or Treat" and you'll see what I
mean. Runs a little slow on a stock A500, (especially if you tried it on a
suped-up Amiga first ;-) but otherwise, it works fine. Got two-player split-
screen, even!
ar
Jason Hutchens
>If there are no more wolf games than shut up and stop this thread. I'm
>sick of those snobbish assholes who'd waste my time and theirs flaunting
>their powerful machine and tell me how lame I am for asking.
Well, I suggest that you stop looking for a 3D tmapped game, and go for
something like "Hired Guns" instead. You will get much more enjoyement
from it.
There is also "Corporation" which is 3D but is not tmapped. It also
plays well on a 68000.
>"Who'll ever need more than 640K of RAM?" -Bill Gates
"Who'll ever need more than a 68000?" -Most Amiga game coders
J.
--
******** Mr. Jason L Hutchens *********
* AMIGA/Ev3.1a/TMBG/IF/PS-X/JJJ/3DO/WWW * E-mail: hu...@ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au
* Visit my home page to talk to MegaHAL * http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch
*****************************************
Nathan Jones
--
"Who'll ever need more than 640K of RAM?" -Bill Gates
Chris Mair
>
>Nathan Jones (7375...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
>: Thanks to those have been useful by telling me about this Za Zelazna
>: Brama thing and Legends Of Valour. Are there more?
>
>"Behind the Iron Gate" is one I think I mentioned. It's free scrolling,
>but the walls aren't "brick" or anything - just shaded colors.
Behind the Iron Gate is the English traslation of the game Za Zelanza Brama.
Another game with some 3D action is Ambermoon (although I haven't played it).
Chris
Nathan Jones
I was asking for.
>"Who'll ever need more than a 68000? -Most Amiga game coders
Here we go again. I'm not suggesting that ALL games be compliant with
my piece-of-shit-but-still-better-than-a-pentium Amiga, rather that
people acknowledge that there are low-enders out there, and that SOMETHNG
should be thrown to us! For example, I'd hate to see what sounds like
a good game like Alien Breed 3d be DESTROYED by making a version that
works on my machine. But every no and then a cool game that's not
high-spec could be released. It makes sense that it would be. After
all, the A600 is one ECS machine that ESCOM is continuing...
Keurentjes
Trick or Treat looks more like a random dot stereogram than like a Doom-cl...
sorry, Doom-type game. Could you please explain the subtle difference between
a Doom-clone and a Doom-style game? The ultimate target is always ultimate
destruction, so why bother? :)
Anywayz, no screwing or anything, A500's can't produce USABLE, PLAYABLE
texturemapping. That was the final word.
Niels
Maxwell Daymon
: people acknowledge that there are low-enders out there, and that SOMETHNG
: should be thrown to us! For example, I'd hate to see what sounds like
The problem here is that MOST of the software is thrown to the lowest
end. High spec games are rare. Even AB3D is as low spec as possible but
still able to survive.
: a good game like Alien Breed 3d be DESTROYED by making a version that
: works on my machine. But every no and then a cool game that's not
AB3D is not possible with ECS. They rely almost completely on the power
of AGA for their custom chunky copper stuff.
: high-spec could be released. It makes sense that it would be. After
: all, the A600 is one ECS machine that ESCOM is continuing...
I was under the impression that they decided against it after this time.
Jyrki Saarinen
> There already is (atleast) one, called TextDemo. However, I've decided
> that optimizing it for 68020 processors and higher was the best thing to
> do since 68000's can't do the job anyway, so it won't run on your machine.
020+ stuff really helps, agreed. I cant imagine how to program
without those nice scaled addressing modes etc.
Jyrki Saarinen
> Bizarrely enough, I can't really see much difference in speed between
> TextDemo on my 1200/030/50 and my 4000/040. Is it optimized for the '030
> or something ?
Yep - 5.7 version does not have 68040 optimized chunky2planar
routine.
John Hendrikx
>> Well we are developing Shade for various graphics cards so your system
>> seems to be ideal to me. In fact most graphics card will give a 20-30
MD> I *WILL* buy your product if you support me. I have been wanting a good
MD> 3-D tmaped game and I've been holding out in my Amiga fortress with
MD> 68040 and graphic card instead of going to a hideous PC. (Okay, I admit
MD> I use ShapeShifter to play Marathon)
I hear Marathon is a pretty cool game, I never managed to see it though (MACs
aren't exactly popular over here, I only see them in the shops if I really go
look for them (but I must admit I don't do that very often :-)). I don't know
anybody who has one though). Is there a share-ware version of Marathon
available somewhere for FTP? I might just want to check it out with
Shape-shifter.
MD> However, TextDemo does on a 25MHz 68030 what Marathon needs a 33MHz
MD> 68040 to get CLOSE to, and even then it doesn't do it as well.
Hehe, that's always nice to hear :-))
>> speed increase over an equally equiped machine running AGA graphics. Also
>> we are supporting EHB (ecs) graphics which we have improved quite a bit
>> since the last released demo (TextDemo57).
MD> Really? I'm already stunned by TextDemo57. I ran Doom on a 25MHz 386
There was a bug in graphics-conversion from 24-bit to 256 and 64 colors. The
dithering used was completely wrong, and although it wasn't all that apparant
it did make a huge difference now that dithering is working as it should.
MD> and TextDemo on a 25MHz 68030 Amiga and TextDemo was MUCH smoother.
MD> Don't even talk about my 040 or you might get scorched. In a small
MD> window TextDemo reports ~90fps or so.
And it did all that including the 30% needed to do Chunky To Planar conversion.
Tells you something about 68030 vs 386 doesn't it? (or maybe it tells you
something about the coder -- just kidding ;-))
MD> (In fact, I *think* it crashes if you go over 100fps, but I'm not quite
MD> sure since I haven't gotten it to reliably crash.)
Well, there are a few 'random' crash bugs in that version. I'm not sure what
happens when it goes over 100 fps though (it probably displays some weird
characters instead of digits :-)). It ofcourse never actually goes faster than
50/60 FPS (depends on your machine), it simple skips those extra frames.
John Hendrikx
NC> Don't worry about it too much though - a high spec machine takes all
NC> the fun out of programming.
In your dreams :-)
John Hendrikx
NC> Bizarrely enough, I can't really see much difference in speed between
NC> TextDemo on my 1200/030/50 and my 4000/040. Is it optimized for the
NC> '030 or something ? Mind you, it's still cool as ice. I recall fondly
NC> memories of demonstrating it to a skeptic who claimed Amigas can't do
NC> things like this one drunken night. Hoho.
4000/040 is just very unsuited for this type of work. If you get an 040 with a
decent memory bus then it will run lots faster. Also, you're right, TD was
optimised for 030's. 040 optimisation is on its way.
Reg Martin
: After all, the A600 is one ECS machine that ESCOM is continuing...
Actually, they're not...
Reg Martin
George Noel
>WHEN IS THERE GOING TO BE A _NON-AGA_ DOOM-CLONE?!
>
>be SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000
>without resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!!
Try the game "Deathmask" - its an "ok" Doom clone that can run under a 68000.
-=*George*=-
Maxwell Daymon
: In a message of 19 Jul 95 Maxwell Daymon wrote to All:
: MD> 68040 and graphic card instead of going to a hideous PC. (Okay, I admit
: MD> I use ShapeShifter to play Marathon)
: anybody who has one though). Is there a share-ware version of Marathon
: available somewhere for FTP? I might just want to check it out with
: Shape-shifter.
Yes. There is a demo version (I think it has three levels/sections.
I haven't won yet). I'm trying to remember where it is. You might try
asking in alt.games.marathon
: MD> However, TextDemo does on a 25MHz 68030 what Marathon needs a 33MHz
: MD> 68040 to get CLOSE to, and even then it doesn't do it as well.
: Hehe, that's always nice to hear :-))
Considering that is on my slow little ECS chipset, I'm absolutely in awe
of TextDemo. To think how much FASTER it will be ABOVE that when it is
released to support my graphic card! Half the time I enjoy just cruising
around in TextDemo than playing Marathon because TextDemo is so much
faster and smoother.
: characters instead of digits :-)). It ofcourse never actually goes faster than
: 50/60 FPS (depends on your machine), it simple skips those extra frames.
Yes, I have /certainly/ hit 60fps. It's just liquid smooth animation at
that point. :-)
Jason Hutchens
>Here we go again. I'm not suggesting that ALL games be compliant with
>my piece-of-shit-but-still-better-than-a-pentium Amiga, rather that
>people acknowledge that there are low-enders out there, and that SOMETHNG
>should be thrown to us! For example, I'd hate to see what sounds like
>a good game like Alien Breed 3d be DESTROYED by making a version that
>works on my machine. But every no and then a cool game that's not
>high-spec could be released. It makes sense that it would be. After
>all, the A600 is one ECS machine that ESCOM is continuing...
Well, there are still games being released for the A600, right?
Some of them must be good? You just can't expect it to do anything
that even the A1200 has trouble with.
The future of the Amiga depends on high-spec games being released.
A version of Alien Breed 3D which requires a fast '040, 4 megs
of fast ram and a graphics card is just what we need - it will
encourage people to upgrade. This is what happened with the PC.
Our software has to catch up!
Unfortunately there will be no such version of AB3D, but hopefully
the TextDemo games will have the required effect. If they're good
enough (and I think they will be), many more people will buy accelerators
for the A1200. This will encourage people to write games requiring
faster computers.
So it's good to see Team17 taking a risk. AB3D is really only a
hobby project for them anyway - they don't expect to make any serious
cash from it. You'll find that most softco's will still release A600
compatible games, just because they have to make the sales to stay
in business.
Personally I can't wait until the day when my computer won't be
powerful enough to run most Amiga games. That's why I've been
pestering the author of AB3D to write a C2P version requiring
graphics cards - even though I won't be able to run it!
J.
BTW: "Worms" from Team17 looks promising - it should run on your computer.
Neil Clark
Maxwell Daymon <mda...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
>Neil Clark (n...@cs.strath.ac.uk) wrote:
>
>;-) Well, I figure there's much one can do even at $14 to make enough to
>buy a $99 68020. I figure 14MHz 68020 is the low end now and it's
>accessable to most any Amiga.
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. $99 (about 70 UK pounds ?) is
hardly an earth-shattering sum of the ol' filty lucre. The trouble is,
kids nowadays don't want to work for their money ;-) They expect everything
to be handed to them on a plate ;-)
I think there is a problem greater than simply that of money, namely that
of your typical A500 1.2 owner's attitude. A friend of mine is like this;
he simply stares at his blue and orange workbench and wonders why he can't
get "gid stuff" like his pal's PC has. The fact that he has seen my 4000/040
doesn't seem to make any difference. Perhaps he thinks it's a PC ? :-(
Despite people's derison, a 68020 is actually a pretty good CPU. It'll struggle
with C2P Doom clones and the like, but is actually capable of quite a few
"medium-level" tasks. In the lab here, we have a couple of old Sun 3s, which
are 68020 based, running UNIX. For what we use them for they are perfectly
adequate - reading e-mail and stuff. My supervisor even still uses them for
HIPS, an image processing package, which seems to work incredibly quickly.
Strange.
Brian Skreeg
: John Hendrikx (john.h...@grafix.xs4all.nl) wrote:
: : In a message of 19 Jul 95 Maxwell Daymon wrote to All:
: : MD> 68040 and graphic card instead of going to a hideous PC. (Okay, I admit
: : MD> I use ShapeShifter to play Marathon)
: : anybody who has one though). Is there a share-ware version of Marathon
: : available somewhere for FTP? I might just want to check it out with
: : Shape-shifter.
: Yes. There is a demo version (I think it has three levels/sections.
: I haven't won yet). I'm trying to remember where it is. You might try
: asking in alt.games.marathon
Have a look in ftp.doc.ic.ac.uk or ftp.demon.co.uk.
You'll find it in the Mac/games section or summat like that.
You'll also need a Gfx card to run it with Shapeshifter.
__ _ _
/ \ \ \
/ / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------------IRC:_Ozzy-|
\__/ \ \ |-Lead guitarist---Widdles on request-|
\__/_/ |-A fish or two is with no compromise-|
Anthony C. Butterfield
> In article <3un3ue$e...@natasha.rmii.com>,
> Maxwell Daymon <mda...@rainbow.rmii.com> wrote:
>>Neil Clark (n...@cs.strath.ac.uk) wrote:
>>
>>;-) Well, I figure there's much one can do even at $14 to make enough to
>>buy a $99 68020. I figure 14MHz 68020 is the low end now and it's
>>accessable to most any Amiga.
> I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. $99 (about 70 UK pounds ?) is
> hardly an earth-shattering sum of the ol' filty lucre. The trouble is,
> kids nowadays don't want to work for their money ;-) They expect everything
> to be handed to them on a plate ;-)
Oh, *God*, I'm feelin' old... ;-)
> I think there is a problem greater than simply that of money, namely that
> of your typical A500 1.2 owner's attitude. A friend of mine is like this;
> he simply stares at his blue and orange workbench and wonders why he can't
> get "gid stuff" like his pal's PC has. The fact that he has seen my 4000/040
> doesn't seem to make any difference. Perhaps he thinks it's a PC ? :-(
I think it's the difference between a hobbyist and a gamer....
,----------------------v---------------------------.
| Tony Butterfield | abtt...@wln.com -or- |
| Olympia, Wa. USA | a.butt...@genie.com |
`----------------------^---------------------------'
The Earth is like a tiny grain of sand, only much bigger.
Keurentjes
Yeah, completed it in roughly 2 evenings. Perhaps they should have made it
difficult or something.
Niels
__ \\
/// Marco Keurentjes Musix, Midi. \\ Mail to:
__ /// --------------------------------------------*>
\\\/// Niels Keurentjes Guitar, Programming. // ma...@sandman.iaehv.nl
\/// //
Neil Clark
John Hendrikx <john.h...@grafix.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>In a message of 19 Jul 95 Neil Clark wrote to All:
>
> NC> Don't worry about it too much though - a high spec machine takes all
> NC> the fun out of programming.
>
>In your dreams :-)
Indeed. The reason I said the above is that for years I struggled with
pantsoid hardware but have now been liberated (in a programming sense)
by the procurement of a 4000/040. And yes, programming is more fun on
a high-spec machine - it's just that I don't seem to do as much since
getting one. Ironic, really.
There is some truth to what I originally said though; one good thing about
programming on a slow machine is that you really go to town with optimizing
your code to make it run even at a reasonable speed, which can be very
rewarding - as I'm sure you know with the TextDemo stuff 8-)
Nathan Jones
Play DOOMED. Play phobos. Those get 50fps on the A500. So there. I'd
like to see PHOBOS made into a full game: that would RULE!
Nathan Jones
John Hendrikx
>> I'm really sick of missing all these cool games, but I KNOW there must be
>> SOME way to get descent scaling speed on an unaccelerated 68000 without
>> resorting to the lo-res of DOOMED/PHOBOS!!! price/performance ratio, not
>> the "Can I equal an SGI?" question!
GN> Try the game "Deathmask" - its an "ok" Doom clone that can run under a
GN> 68000.
Death-mask is not a doom-clone. It isn't even a wolf-clone. It is more like
Liberation or EOB.
Keurentjes
In article <3v8rqq$qpq$2...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Nathan Jones <7375...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> I've been LOOKING for Dmask: NO ONE has it!
Be glad.
C:WINSOCKKA9QSPOOLMAIL
I suppose you could try looking for it on aminet in the games/demo
section or if you want I could send you a demo I have.
Callum Chau
Email 9403...@udcf.gla.ac.uk
PS Please send replies to the above email address. Thanks.
Derek Mall
>In article <3uik29$j...@natasha.rmii.com>, mda...@rainbow.rmii.com (Maxwell Daymon) says:
>Shade will take advantage of your system. It will use 020 or 040 specific
>code depending on your hardware.
Will it support o3o specific code?
>It will allow you to select the screen modes available to you
How fast DPAL noflicker then?
>and it will take advantage of 32 bit mem etc. Since
>the last release the bugs have been removed. The textdemo engine no longer
>crashes. There also is no more screen interference. The EHB and AGA modes
>look WAY better. EHB IMHO is very nice looking (looks tons better than in
>5.7) and AGA looks incredible.
When does TextDemo60 come out then?? at least give us some screen shoots
DeZ
John Hendrikx
>> Shade will take advantage of your system. It will use 020 or 040 specific
>> >code depending on your hardware.
DM> Will it support o3o specific code?
Since 030 and 020 are so much a like there is no need for seperate code for
these CPU's.
>> It will allow you to select the screen modes available to you
DM> How fast DPAL noflicker then?
Unknown, but you can bet it will be slower than PAL: Lo-Res. It is possible
though that you won't notice any difference since we're only talking about
320x256 screens here which don't take that much bandwidth at all.
>> and it will take advantage of 32 bit mem etc. Since the last release the
>> bugs have been removed. The textdemo engine no longer crashes. There also
>> is no more screen interference. The EHB and AGA modes look WAY better.
>> EHB IMHO is very nice looking (looks tons better than in 5.7) and AGA
>> looks incredible.
DM> When does TextDemo60 come out then?? at least give us some screen
DM> shoots
I will try and provide some of those before the release. Also it isn't sure
that there will be a TextDemo60, we might want to release a playable demo
instead. I can't tell when we will do the release since there are still many
things which need to be done to create a playable demo version (playable means
in my book that it has some decent levels, a few baddies and some way to defend
yourself).