ANSI C Standard
Srinivas Mudigonda
How can I get a copy of the ANSI C standard. Is there any free source on the
net ???
Srinivas
Francis Glassborow
<msri...@in.ibm.com> writes
>Hi All
>How can I get a copy of the ANSI C standard. Is there any free source on the
>net ???
There isn't
You can either buy an electronic copy from ANSI or you can wait for the
soon to be published version in book form (with the Technical Corrigenda
folded in and with the Rationale included). The target date for this
publication is June. That might slip a little but not by very much.
--
ACCU Spring Conference 2003 April 2-5
The Conference you cannot afford to miss
Check the details: http://www.accuconference.co.uk/
Francis Glassborow ACCU
Alexander Terekhov
Francis Glassborow wrote:
>
> In message <b59bt7$l6j$1...@newshost.transarc.ibm.com>, Srinivas Mudigonda
> <msri...@in.ibm.com> writes
> >Hi All
> >How can I get a copy of the ANSI C standard. Is there any free source on the
> >net ???
>
> There isn't
>
> You can either buy an electronic copy from ANSI or you can wait for the
> soon to be published version in book form (with the Technical Corrigenda
> folded in and with the Rationale included). The target date for this
> publication is June. That might slip a little but not by very much.
Book is fine, but make the standard [rationale including] FREE, at
least the official HTML version on the net (just like ISO/IEC 9945).
Really.
regards,
alexander.
Francis Glassborow
<tere...@web.de> writes
>Book is fine, but make the standard [rationale including] FREE, at
>least the official HTML version on the net (just like ISO/IEC 9945).
We do not have the power to do that. The standard you mention (Single
Unix Specification) is a rather special case because ISO/IEC were not
the only participants. The C Standard is developed entirely under the
auspices of ISO/IEC (via a workgroup of SC22)
Kalle Olavi Niemitalo
> You can either buy an electronic copy from ANSI or you can wait for
> the soon to be published version in book form (with the Technical
> Corrigenda folded in and with the Rationale included). The target date
> for this publication is June.
Doh! So that's why I couldn't find the standard in any book
shops in Helsinki. (I got Unicode 3.0, though.)
How much is the book expected to cost?
Larry Jones
>
> Book is fine, but make the standard [rationale including] FREE, at
> least the official HTML version on the net (just like ISO/IEC 9945).
The Rationale belongs to the committee and is free; the Standard belongs
to INCITS and ISO who make money to fund the standards development
process by selling copies of the standards they produce. They are
unlikely to start giving them away, although they are moving in that
direction. The C Standard in electronic form (PDF, not HTML; HTML still
doesn't provide all the required typography) is only $18, which is
practically free.
<http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=232462>
-Larry Jones
Wow, how existential can you get? -- Hobbes
Alexander Terekhov
Larry Jones wrote:
>
> Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
> >
> > Book is fine, but make the standard [rationale including] FREE, at
> > least the official HTML version on the net (just like ISO/IEC 9945).
>
> The Rationale belongs to the committee and is free; the Standard belongs
> to INCITS and ISO who make money to fund the standards development
> process by selling copies of the standards they produce. They are
> unlikely to start giving them away, although they are moving in that
> direction. The C Standard in electronic form (PDF, not HTML; HTML still
> doesn't provide all the required typography) is only $18,
Yeah. ANSI gets just-18-bucks for the ISO/IEC standard. Fine. Now, how
much of it goes to the other XX countries/members, Larry?
http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/isomembers/MemberCountryList.MemberCountryList
http://www.iec.ch/cgi-bin/procgi.pl/www/iecwww.p?wwwlang=e&wwwprog=membrs3.p
> which is practically free.
Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
http://www.opengroup.org/sophocles/show_mail.tpl?source=L&listname=austin-group-l&id=5018
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975
regards,
alexander.
(*) http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/commcentre/pressreleases/2002/Ref837.html
--
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DEBA071.6543BDFD%40web.de
Hallvard B Furuseth
>Larry Jones wrote:
>
>> The C Standard in electronic form (PDF, not HTML; HTML still
>> doesn't provide all the required typography) is only $18,
>
> Yeah. ANSI gets just-18-bucks for the ISO/IEC standard. Fine. Now, how
> much of it goes to the other XX countries/members, Larry?
Other ISO member bodies are free to sell the standard cheaply too. So
far they aren't doing it. At least the Norwegian standards organization
priced it very high last time I asked.
But if you don't like it, you can buy it from ISO instead.
Search for '9899' at <http://www.iso.ch/>.
> Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
> 9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
--
Hallvard
Alexander Terekhov
Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
[...]
> > Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
> > 9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
>
> ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
regards,
alexander.
Hallvard B Furuseth
>> ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
>
> http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
I take it you mean to say it's not a large part of their income? Well,
if so, quarrel with ISO about that, not to comp.std.c. Until you
convince them to change, this is still how they choose to do it.
--
Hallvard
Alexander Terekhov
Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
>
> Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>
> >> ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
> >
> > http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
>
> I take it you mean to say it's not a large part of their income? Well,
> if so, quarrel with ISO about that, not to comp.std.c.
Nah, ISO won't reply. ;-)
regards,
alexander.
--
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/ECMA-334.HTM
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/ECMA-335.HTM
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/techreports/E-TR-084.HTM
http://www.jaggersoft.com/csharp_standard
Alan Balmer
<tere...@web.de> wrote:
>
>Larry Jones wrote:
>>
>> Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Book is fine, but make the standard [rationale including] FREE, at
>> > least the official HTML version on the net (just like ISO/IEC 9945).
>>
<snip>
>Yeah. ANSI gets just-18-bucks for the ISO/IEC standard. Fine. Now, how
>much of it goes to the other XX countries/members, Larry?
>
Whatever your complaint is, it doesn't belong here. The clc newsgroup
has no power to set rates for any publisher. Complain somewhere more
appropriate. If need be, I'll buy a copy and forward it to you.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Balmer wrote:
[...]
> If need be, I'll buy a copy and forward it to you.
How fascinating. Yes, it "need be"; please buy a copy and forward it to me.
TIA.
regards,
alexander.
Francis Glassborow
<k...@iki.fi> writes
35ukp or there abouts.
Alan Balmer
Will do. It will cost me less than following this thread. I assume the
reply address in your header is good?
Jack Klein
<francis.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in comp.std.c:
> In message <b59bt7$l6j$1...@newshost.transarc.ibm.com>, Srinivas Mudigonda
> <msri...@in.ibm.com> writes
> >Hi All
> >How can I get a copy of the ANSI C standard. Is there any free source on the
> >net ???
>
> There isn't
>
> You can either buy an electronic copy from ANSI or you can wait for the
> soon to be published version in book form (with the Technical Corrigenda
> folded in and with the Rationale included). The target date for this
> publication is June. That might slip a little but not by very much.
Hopefully better than the one on the 1990 standard by "he who
shouldn't be mentioned"!
Can you supply any additional information, such as ISBN, author,
publisher, so those of us who will be compulsively purchasing it can
keep tabs on it? It would be greatly appreciated.
--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
Francis Glassborow
<jack...@spamcop.net> writes
>Hopefully better than the one on the 1990 standard by "he who
>shouldn't be mentioned"!
No there will be no annotations, just some front matter the standard and
the rationale.
>
>Can you supply any additional information, such as ISBN, author,
>publisher, so those of us who will be compulsively purchasing it can
>keep tabs on it? It would be greatly appreciated.
I will post the ISBN as soon as I have one. Author? WG14 for the
rationale, ISO for the standard, myself and Kernighan for the front
matter.
Publisher: Wiley
Jun Woong
> In message <onli7vggpivg9a0jo...@4ax.com>, Jack Klein <jack...@spamcop.net> writes
> >Hopefully better than the one on the 1990 standard by "he who
> >shouldn't be mentioned"!
>
> No there will be no annotations, just some front matter the standard and
> the rationale.
>
> >
> >Can you supply any additional information, such as ISBN, author,
> >publisher, so those of us who will be compulsively purchasing it can
> >keep tabs on it? It would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I will post the ISBN as soon as I have one. Author? WG14 for the
> rationale, ISO for the standard, myself and Kernighan for the front
> matter.
> Publisher: Wiley
>
Does it differ from a book entitled "The C Standard" by BSI?
--
Jun, Woong (myco...@hanmail.net)
Dept. of Physics, Univ. of Seoul
Francis Glassborow
<myco...@hanmail.net> writes
If that is published by Wiley it is the same book (remember that a
publisher needs a licence to publish form a National Body, though the
actual words are the same regardless as to the NB)
Jun Woong
> In message <b5ce5b$jss$1...@news.hananet.net>, Jun Woong
> <myco...@hanmail.net> writes
> >"Francis Glassborow" <francis.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:QL6FkQC2...@robinton.demon.co.uk...
> >> In message <onli7vggpivg9a0jo...@4ax.com>, Jack Klein <jack...@spamcop.net> writes
> >> >Hopefully better than the one on the 1990 standard by "he who
> >> >shouldn't be mentioned"!
> >>
> >> No there will be no annotations, just some front matter the standard and
> >> the rationale.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Can you supply any additional information, such as ISBN, author,
> >> >publisher, so those of us who will be compulsively purchasing it can
> >> >keep tabs on it? It would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >> I will post the ISBN as soon as I have one. Author? WG14 for the
> >> rationale, ISO for the standard, myself and Kernighan for the front
> >> matter.
> >> Publisher: Wiley
> >>
> >
> >Does it differ from a book entitled "The C Standard" by BSI?
>
> If that is published by Wiley it is the same book (remember that a
> publisher needs a licence to publish form a National Body, though the
> actual words are the same regardless as to the NB)
>
Yes, that's published by Wiley. Its ISBN is 0-470-84573-2 and target
date for the publication is Aug 2003 according to the information
from the publisher.
Larry Jones
>
> Yeah. ANSI gets just-18-bucks for the ISO/IEC standard. Fine. Now, how
> much of it goes to the other XX countries/members, Larry?
I have no idea. Since the US (in the form of ANSI and INCITS) sponsored
the original standard development and holds the committee secretariat,
they get reproduction rights to the final standard. Whether they pay
any royalties at all to ISO I do not know. I'm not sure how it's
relevant, though.
> Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
> 9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
That standard was developed by X/Open, who retains rights to it and is
free to give it away if it wants. The C Standard was developed by ANSI
and later by ISO and they choose not to give it away, although ANSI is
practically giving it away.
-Larry Jones
My brain is trying to kill me. -- Calvin
Larry Jones
>
> Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
>>
>> ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
>
> http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
From that, it appears that almost all of ISO's revenue comes from
selling publications, royalties on publications, and subscriptions to
publications, which seems to prove Hallvard's assertion. What's your
point?
-Larry Jones
It seems like once people grow up, they have no idea what's cool. -- Calvin
Francis Glassborow
<myco...@hanmail.net> writes
>Yes, that's published by Wiley. Its ISBN is 0-470-84573-2 and target
>date for the publication is Aug 2003 according to the information
>from the publisher.
Well trust me, we are aiming for sooner.
Alexander Terekhov
Larry Jones wrote:
>
> Alexander Terekhov <tere...@web.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> >>
> >> ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
> >
> > http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
>
> From that, it appears that almost all of ISO's revenue comes from
> selling publications, royalties on publications, and subscriptions to
> publications, which seems to prove Hallvard's assertion. What's your
> point?
An online pub-lication of the C standard won't ruin ISO, I believe.
If ISO will cease its existence, organizations like ECMA Int. [all
their standards are free, AFAIK] can probably smoothly take over
the work, oder? ;-)
regards,
alexander.
Alexander Terekhov
Larry Jones wrote:
[...]
> > Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
> > 9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
>
Yeah. Every day I learn something new.
http://www.pasc.org
http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC22/WG15
Uhmm, also:
<quote>
POSIX was developed to standardize UNIX interface -- but omitting all but
the basics from the various UNIX lineages. POSIX became an international
standard when the POSIX 1003.1-1990 specification was accepted and
published by the ISO/IEC international standards body, but using their own
naming: ISO/IEC 9945-1:1990. So we've got 2 names on that side of the
family.
Meanwhile, The Open Group (at the time known as X/Open, essentially meaning
"Open UNIX") built the XPG (X/Open Portability Guide) as something of a
profile on top of POSIX, but also to bring in additional divergent (and
sometimes redundant) historical functions from the System V and BSD lines.
The UNIX trademark went looking for a home in the early 90s, and ended up
with The Open Group. They tried to exploit it by unifying the divergent
lines, in the end identifying 1170 common interfaces, which became
"SPEC1170", the basis for the 4th edition of the X/Open Portability Guide
(XPG4). This was reinforced with a test system for the "UNIX 93" brand,
which authorized use of the "UNIX" trademark.
This was expended to become XPG4.2, which was also called the Single UNIX
Specification (SUSv2) and designated by the UNIX 95 brand.
Meanwhile, POSIX developed realtime and threads (the 1003.1b and 1003.1c
amendments to 1003.1-1990), which were combined in the 1003.1-1996 issue of
POSIX. The Open Group responded with XPG5, bringing in both sets of
interfaces as well as a set of useful extensions. This of course became
SUSv2, and was designated by the UNIX 98 brand.
Then, in 2001, POSIX 1003.1-1996 came up for its 5 year renewal. POSIX and
The Open Group worked out a landmark deal to finally combine the two
separate documents in a single source file. Thus, POSIX 1003.1-2001 and
ISO/IEC 9945-1:2002 get added to the list of aliases, along with XPG6, and
the corresponding UNIX 03 brand.
Yes, there are a lot of names. Dropping any of them could be politically
contentious and also potentially confusing as various groups of people are
used to following one or more of these successions of specifications.
The distinction between the brand and the specifications is important.
Anyone can reference the specification, but the brand proves validated
conformance. The ISO name is important because it's part of the
international formal standards community. POSIX is important because it's a
long-standing pillar of the UNIX market. SUS remains something beyond basic
POSIX (many sections of the common document are still shaded as applying
only to SUS conformance, not strict POSIX conformance). The XPG name takes
a much more secondary significance now, and can mostly be ignored.
--
/--------------------[ David.B...@hp.com ]--------------------\
| Hewlett-Packard Company Tru64 UNIX & VMS Thread Architect |
| My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/ |
\----[ http://homepage.mac.com/dbutenhof/Threads/Threads.html ]---/
</quote>
regards,
alexander.
Al Grant
> The Rationale belongs to the committee and is free; the Standard belongs
> to INCITS and ISO who make money to fund the standards development
> process by selling copies of the standards they produce.
Who decides how and where the money raised from C standards is spent?
Is it hypothecated in any way?
David Stone
Francis Glassborow <francis.g...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> I will post the ISBN as soon as I have one. Author? WG14 for the
> rationale, ISO for the standard, myself and Kernighan for the front
> matter.
> Publisher: Wiley
http://www.wileyeurope.com/cda/product/0,,0470845732%7Cdesc%7C2942,00.html
says that the isbn is 0-470-84573-2 -- is it perhaps merely
provisional? It also suggests that the author is `British Standards
Institute'!
--
David Stone <david...@ttpcom.com>
Alan Balmer
I've received no acknowledgement, but the mail didn't bounce, so I
assume you got the PDF and the accompanying proof of purchase.
Alexander Terekhov
Alan Balmer wrote:
[...]
> I've received no acknowledgement, ...
ACK.
regards,
alexander.
Larry Jones
>
> Yeah. Every day I learn something new.
OK, I should have said *partially* developed by X/Open, now known as The
Open Group. In any event, that's who is making it available for free,
not ISO, IEC, IEEE (all of whom have, I believe, reproduction rights) or
any other official standards-making body.
-Larry Jones
The authorities are trying to silence any view contrary to their own!
-- Calvin
Larry Jones
>
> Who decides how and where the money raised from C standards is spent?
> Is it hypothecated in any way?
Not so far as I know, I think it just goes into the general operating
fund of the respective standards organization.
-Larry Jones
I don't need to improve! Everyone ELSE does! -- Calvin
James Dennett
Alexander,
It appears that the text of your message has been lost,
leaving only a URL. If this kind of thing happens often,
replacing your news client might be an option. It would
be a shame if people ignored your contributions because
they have no text around them to indicate why you think
people would want to read the links.
-- James.
Alexander Terekhov
James Dennett wrote:
>
> Alexander Terekhov wrote:
> > Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >>>Yeah. But what about FREE availability of "online pubs" ala ISO/IEC
> >>>9945:2002(*)'s stuff?
> >>
> >>ISO has to finance itself somehow. This is how they choose to do it.
> >
> >
> > http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/aboutiso/annualreports/2001/pdf/arpage18.pdf
> >
> > regards,
> > alexander.
>
> Alexander,
>
> It appears that the text of your message has been lost,
> leaving only a URL.
Pls see below.
> If this kind of thing happens often,
> replacing your news client might be an option. It would
> be a shame if people ignored your contributions because
> they have no text around them to indicate why you think
> people would want to read the links.
http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/commcentre/presentations/secgen/2000/lde2000GA.pdf
"....
ISO's Amazing Membership – keeps on growing – now up to 137
....
We see also that ISO members are amazingly loyal: they
accept their membership obligations, and nearly all of them
pay on time. It is clear to us that they are proud of their
ISO membership, and they come regularly to our General
Assemblies to share their experiences with the ISO family."
Also, don't miss "Responsibility 1b" and "Right 2"...
regards,
alexander.