Saint Regis University
David Lane
to enter onto a PG course.
Is this qualification any good or is it as useless as I think?
Thanks
David
Wes and Linda Grady
it isn't useless, now is it?
Wes
"David Lane" <dclan...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3dff8...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
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Deirdre Saoirse Moen
<dclan...@lineone.net> wrote:
If you mean http://www.saintregisedu.org/
Yeah, it's worthless.
--
_Deirdre http://deirdre.net
"Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up
and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards...."
-- Wen Spencer on plotting a novel
Tish Wolfe
degrees" -- yeah, it's worthless.
"David Lane" <dclan...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:3dff8...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
David Lane
I thought so!
"Tish Wolfe" <tish...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vMOL9.405125$QZ.63578@sccrnsc02...
Jay
RPL (recognition of prior learning) from people with vested interest
in higher education.
The problem is in semantics and claimed/grouped vocational education
with higher education (some of the courses in higher education should
be relabelled as vocational education courses).
It is necessary to distinquish between vocational education as against
higher education to give clarity to tertiary education. This statement
is support by data from the Australia Department of Immigration
(available through their web site) which breaks down student visa
categories into higher education studies and vocational education
studies - there are more vocational education students as compare to
higher education students for the calendar year 2000 and 2001.
Bulk of careers require training through vocational education and not
through higher education. Australian statistics indicates a bulk of
people with higher education qualifications, in fact, gone on to
obtain vocational education qualifications to be effective in the
workplace.
It is also necessary to distinguish between "assessment only" as
against "training and assessment". An organisation can be just
"assessment" based. This means that people don't pay for training.
Therefore "assessment" organisations can offer more "cost effective"
qualifications if the candidate already have the knowledge and skills
through life long learning. This has nothing to do with assessment
standards. (In a democracy, derogatory remarks can come back to bite
your hip pocket through defamation actions, make sure that in your use
of flamborant language as in the use of a "Diploma Mill" you have
empirical knowledge of the meaning of a "Diploma Mill" which don't
require assessment).
Please note that the High Court of Australia, a couple of weeks ago
granted Joseph Gutnik the path to persuit legal action for defamation
in Australia against an Article originated in a Washington Newspaper
because of the Internet having international reach. (so guys, be
careful, actions can be taken at the point of defamation rather than
the point of original source).
With all the bi-lateral agreements between Countries make sure your
legal position.
When Saint Regis University assess a candidate, one mechansim is
mapping RPL against current existing subjects taught at different
institutions. The mapping exercise is doing nothing more than
assessing against RPL. This is transparent.
Please find below the leading edge development in looking at
Australian Qualifications. the term AQF is the official policy term of
the Australian Government and is described through the following
website:
http://www.aqf.edu.au/lp.htm. This site has diagrams and explanations
to qualification pathways based on "Australian Qualification
Framework"
Key Sections from the web site are:
Flexible Education and Training Pathways
AQF Pathways Diagram
Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL)
SSCE Pathways
Certificate Pathways
Diploma to Degree Pathways
Cross-Sector Qualification Linkages
Casestudies
Flexible Education
and Training Pathways
The following are quoted from the web page.
"AQF qualifications link with each other in a range of learning
pathways between schools, vocational education and training providers
and universities as your learning and career ambitions require.
The AQF makes a specific commitment to flexible, transparent and
systematic learning pathways and to the removal of boundaries between
educational sectors. It therefore encourages cross sectoral linkage
programs such as:
VET in Schools, which allows schools across the country to offer
industry based units of learning than can contribute to both the
Senior Secondary Certificate of Education and Certificate I - IV
qualifications;
Articulation and Credit Transfer Arrangements between registered
vocational education and training providers and universities involving
efficient articulation of programs and maximum credit transfer; and
Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) by which credits are granted
towards qualifications through assessment of an individual's knowledge
and skills gained through education, training, work and life
experience.
The Pathway from university to vocational education and training
qualifications is becoming increasingly popular as a way of gaining
industry experience needed to increase employment opportunities. See
our Case studies for examples of this pathway.
Recognition of Prior Learning
Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) allows a person to receive
recognition and credit for the knowledge and skills they have, no
matter how and where they were attained, including overseas. This can
include skills from:
previous study (including courses at school or college, through adult
education classes or training programs at work);
work experience (including both work that is paid and unpaid); and
life experience (for example leisure pursuits or voluntary work).
What matters in obtaining recognition of prior learning is that the
knowledge and skills you have gained help to meet the learning
outcomes and assessment criteria of the qualification for which you
are seeking credit. In the VET sector, RPL assessment can result in a
full qualification or a Statement of Attainment for partial
completion.
To obtain further information about RPL, approach the educational or
training provider with which you wish to study and seek an RPL
assessment. There are also assessment agencies which will assess your
skills and experience on a fee-for-service basis. In the VET sector,
there are also assessment-only Registered Training Organisations,
which are listed on the National Training Information Service
Senior Secondary Certificate Pathways
Click on examples of pathways between the SSCE and Certificates I -
IV, University and Employment
Vocational Certificate Pathways
Certificates I - IV recognise achievement of specified national
industry competencies at four levels in wide range of trades,
industries and enterprises.
Here are some limited examples of the wealth of skills and knowledge
recognised by Certificate I - IV qualifications:
Industry Certificate Qualifications Available
Building and Furnishing Painting and Decorating; Plumbing; Furniture
Upholstery; Joinery.
Business Studies Accounting; Business Practice; Workplace Training;
Administrative Services and Property Management (Aboriginal
Community).
Community Services
and Health Community Food Services; Dental Technology; Aged Care;
Primary Health Care.
Expressive and Visual Arts Performing Arts; Commercial Music; Opal
Cutting.
Horticulture and Rural Forestry Technology; Animal Care; Jockey
Practice; Meat Inspection.
Information Technology Software Applications; Network Administration
and Management; Technical and Client Support; Database Administration;
Multimedia; Programming and Systems Analysis and Design.
Printing and Graphic Arts Graphic Prepress; Screen Printing; Sign
Writing
Tourism and Hospitality Baking; Butchery; Food Processing;
Interpreting; Tourism and Travel.
Employment Opportunities with Certificate Qualifications (example NSW)
With a Certificate I qualification,
employment may be gained as:
a computer service technician;
a council worker (outdoors);
a dry cleaner;
a factory hand;
a florist;
a kitchenhand;
a polymer processor; and
a stablehand.
With a Certificate II qualification,
employment may be gained as:
a bank officer;
a bushland regenerator;
a cleaner;
a farmer;
a film and video production technician;
a funeral attendant;
a hospitality operator;
a receptionist;
a sales assistant;
a screen printer
a shearer;
a tourist operator; and
a vehicle detailer.
With a Certificate III qualification,
employment may be gained as:
an animal attendant;
a baker;
a beauty therapist;
a credit officer;
an electrician;
a homecare worker;
a milliner;
a motor mechanic;
a network administrator;
a painter and decorator;
a pastry cook;
a plumber;
a signwriter;
a sound technician;
a stonemason;
a tailor;
a tiler; and
a woodmachinist.
With a Certificate IV qualification,
employment may be gained as:
an accounts clerk;
an architectural drafter;
a professional builder;
a community services worker;
a computer operator;
a fitness instructor;
a graphic designer;
an interior decorator;
a mechanical engineering technician;
a systems analyst;
a visual merchandiser.
For a complete listing of the occupations and qualifications
available, please refer to the National Training Information Service,
the Commonwealth Jobguide and OZJAC on CD ROM.
Diploma to Degree Pathways
There are an increasing number of partnerships between registered
vocational education and training providers and universities, which
have been set up to enhance the pathways from an industry
qualification to a higher education qualification. This also ensures
that the maximum amount of credit is given to avoid repetitive and
inefficient education and training. Some examples of articulated
courses are:
Diploma of Building Construction Bachelor of Building
Bachelor of Construction Management
Bachelor of Engineering
Diploma of Information Technology Bachelor of Commerce
Bachelor of Computer Science
Bachelor of Business (Computing, Accounting,
Banking and Finance)
Advanced Diploma of Hospitality Bachelor of Business (Hospitality:
Catering)
Bachelor of Applied Science
(Consumer Science or Hospitality Studies)
For a full list of universities that have entered into articulation
arrangements, visit the Australian Vice Chancellors' Committee (AVCC)
website.
Cross-Sector Qualification Linkages
The AQF Advisory Board has developed Guidelines on Cross-Sectional
Qualification Linkages that enable learners to move from one
qualification to another in more efficient and effective learning
pathways. See the Guideslines here.
Casestudies
For further examples of education, training and career pathways,
whether you are about to leave school, contemplating your future
career or considering study in Australia, check out our Casestudies."
The bottom line is, employers wants people that can make them
money or save them money. The recognition or otherwise of the State of
Oregon etc. makes no different as to how an employer or potential
employer assess people for jobs.
Further, some jobs require people to have a license to practise
in that profession or trade, I doubt people can walk into these jobs
mounted with just a degree from an Oregon accredited university (where
are your people skill?).
Traditionally, universities are centers of higher learning in the
fields of arts/literature/music, mathematics/sciences/engineering and
religious studies. Much later, the forces of the money making
machinery push universities into commercial disciplines, thus the
birth of MBA etc.
What are qualifications like MBAs? Does not it prepare an individual
to make
money or save money for yourself or an organization? If you can make
money or save money over a sustained period (wealth creation), then
you are MBA material. Bill Gates don't have an MBA, yet if he wants to
be rated he will be a DBA many times over. Not only did he make money,
he kept it.
You can have the most stringent rules and regulation, this does not
stop the bond/stock/futures/property/commodity market collapses and
economic downturns, nor does it stops the cheats or people being
dishonest. Do you know what, I bet if you look behind corporate
collapses, you will have an army of people armed with MBAs from Oregon
accredited universities and other blue ribbon universities (these are
the people with titles like XXX consultant, XXX manager, XXX Vice
President, XXX President or XXX Director). If you were a party to
corporate collapses, (USA has many billions of dollars corporate
collapses lately), I doubt if Saint Regis University would rate you as
MBA material, remember that.
Much has been said about Saint Regis University in this way:
"SRU's credential evaluator is not a member of the NACE, but would an
NACE member reach the same positive conclusion? Does the fact that SRU
is listed with UNESCO make their degrees eligible for use in the state
of Oregon" - The answer is, who cares, so what.
UNESCO (United Nation Education, Scientific and Cultural
Organization)is very cute, because it levels up the playing field.
With the advancement of technology through the Internet, education and
knowledge now is not limited to the previlege few who has mega-bucks,
but poorer people and countries can also benefit is this market. Also
note that with the strength of the US dollars, only a fraction of the
world's population can afford it. The high cost of anything, including
education, contributes to the source of world tension (polarising the
"haves and have nots"). Anything that can reduce cost should be
welcome. If you look at world statistics (sources everywhere), as a
rough estimate, the cost of higher education would take 80% of the
world population more than a lifetime of earnings to acquire.
SRU identified a niche market, set up a formula, positioned itself to
target and captured market share and helped many many people to
further their
careers, good on them, because they are successful, have happy
customers,
a repeating and growing business.
Well done Saint Regis University. Wish you all the success in the
future
JW
"David Lane" <dclan...@lineone.net> wrote in message news:<3dffc...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>...
Wes and Linda Grady
quacks like and duck and swims like a duck, chances are that it isn't a cat.
St. Regis is not a cat.
Wes
"Jay" <jw...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:138f2c98.02122...@posting.google.com...
Tish Wolfe
"Australian Qualification Framework"]
And St. Regis "University" isn't Australian, and doesn't provide a tenth
this much info on its supposed evaluations.
Bakz
Bakz
> RPL (recognition of prior learning) from people with vested interest
> in higher education.
>
>
> The problem is in semantics ...
Therefore intentionally snipped
> Bulk of careers require training through vocational education and not
> through higher education. Australian statistics indicates a bulk of
> people with higher education qualifications, in fact, gone on to
> obtain vocational education qualifications to be effective in the
> workplace.
>
And who cares about Austrailian statistics when you live in Oregon?
>
> It is also necessary to distinguish between "assessment only" as
> against ..............
Blah, blah blah !!!!
>(In a democracy, derogatory remarks can come back to bite
> your hip pocket through defamation actions, make sure that in your use
> of flamborant language as in the use of a "Diploma Mill" you have
> empirical knowledge of the meaning of a "Diploma Mill" which don't
> require assessment).
Quoted From the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization:
http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html
What is a diploma mill?
Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without
supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which
are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards
worthless. -Webster's Third New International Dictionary
Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent "colleges"
that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Some
are simple frauds: a mailbox to which people send money in exchange for
paper that purports to be a college degree. Others require some nominal work
from the student but do not require college-level course work that is
normally required for a degree.
End Quote
ARE WE CLEAR NOW? I guess you will just have to file suit against the State
of Oregon.
>
> Please note that the High Court of Australia, a couple of weeks ago
> granted Joseph Gutnik the path to persuit legal action for defamation
> in Australia against an Article originated in a Washington Newspaper
> because of the Internet having international reach. (so guys, be
> careful, actions can be taken at the point of defamation rather than
> the point of original source).
> With all the bi-lateral agreements between Countries make sure your
> legal position.
>
> When Saint Regis University assess a candidate, one mechansim is
> mapping RPL against current existing subjects taught at different
> institutions. The mapping exercise is doing nothing more than
> assessing against RPL. This is transparent.
>
How come you know so much about SRU?
> Please find below the leading edge development in looking at
> Australian Qualifications. the term AQF is the official policy term of
> the Australian Government and is described through the following
> website:
>
Senseless AQF meanderings snipped.
> Anything that can reduce cost should be > welcome. If you look at world
> statistics (sources everywhere), as a rough estimate, the cost of higher
education would take 80% of the world population more than a lifetime of
earnings to
> acquire. SRU identified a niche market, set up a formula, positioned
itself to target and captured market share and helped many many people to
> further their careers, good on them, because they are successful, have
happy customers, a repeating and growing business.
>
Have you seen St. Regis U's prices? Aren't they incredibably high for a
school whose degrees are unusable in many US States? Cost more than many
properly accredited schools.
>
> Well done Saint Regis University. Wish you all the success in the
> future
>
>
> JW
>
Quack, Quack, Quack, Quack !!!!
Jay
don't venture too far out, it might effect your health.
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message news:<BJcN9.6851$sI5.152...@twister2.starband.net>...
Peter French
You either misunderstand the operation of St Regis University
OR
You misunderstand the concept and operation of RPL/RCC under the AQTF and
AQF
You make care to explain the 'benefit' that you see a holder of a St Regis
degree having regarding employment and acceptance within an academic or
professional community.
Peter French
Bakz
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message
news:aTlN9.13$OB5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> Jay,
>
> You either misunderstand the operation of St Regis University
>
> OR
>
> You misunderstand the concept and operation of RPL/RCC under the AQTF and
> AQF
>
> You make care to explain the 'benefit' that you see a holder of a St Regis
> degree having regarding employment and acceptance within an academic or
> professional community.
>
> Peter French
>
Peter,
I think our friend understands these precepts quite adequately. He is
probably a St. Regis University promoter.
Peter French
I was being gracious :-) and also considering the implications of the recent
'WSJ v Gutnik' decision of the High Court of Australia - the action for
defamation/damages is raised where the material is READ not where it is
PUBLISHED.
I have done advanced research and worked in the RPL area for many years - I
am well aware of how it operates and what it is designed to address. I fail
to see HOW these principles support what St Regis is doing. Maybe, my fellow
Australian, whoever he/she may be, may care to take the time and show the
courtesy to some of us and enlighten us on this aspect.
On a totally unrelated matter, people do tend to become quite defensive
regarding some degrees, but I suppose that is understandable .... ?
P J French
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:Z8oN9.6580$4x2.169...@twister1.starband.net...
Jay
Information written is given freely on the Internet. Since you claim
expertise in RPL, you can enlighten this newsgroup. Unlike you, I will
never claim to be an expert, as learning is ongoing. Statistics in the
IT area now puts knowledge redundancy at roughly 20% every 12 months
as a result of shifts in technology 4GL -> 5GL -> artifical
intelligence ->?. So you have a 3 years IT graduate with an inbuilt
60% redundancy factor on graduation.
Do you sit on any ITTAB steering committee? Perhaps you are a VETAB
regulator. You must have advanced usage of series 6 ANTA toolboxes.
How many workshops have you attended last year on AQTF. Which area of
AQTF is your concentration, version control? HR? Operations? Units of
Competency mapping perhaps? Are you a AQF certified assessor and
workplace trainer for your RTO. There is certainly lots to learn.
E-mail me, come over to my place for lunch. I am sure that with your
expertise you have a lot to teach me.
The discussion has to be private though, this newsgroup contain lots
of ducks (and cats).
regards,
Jay
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message news:<KFuN9.6$hI5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>...
Peter French
and inferring that RPL policies and procedures support such degrees.
I disagree with you [someone has already inferred that you may be a 'stooge'
in effect for them] and simply stated that you either misunderstand the
operations of St Regis, or the RPL/RCC and AQF/AQTF processes, or maybe all
of the foregoing - period. I did not claim to be an expert, but I have spent
several years involved in RPL/RCC in research, academically and
operationally.
There is an investigative journalist who is interested in your opinion re St
Regis - but I had to tell him that I do not know who you are. Maybe you
could prepare you case in favour of St Regis as supported by current
assessment practices in Australia, and I will forward it on
Enjoy your Festive Season
Peter French
"Jay" <jw...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:138f2c98.0212...@posting.google.com...
Peter French
How does your employer regard it? Is it equal to an Australian degree?
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message
news:6YJN9.4$hY5...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
JManch9943
The issue is not only about equivalency but
Quality Control.
How SRU knows if the applicant is not making his experience up?
Do they call to verify his prior employment and get official records of
learning?
I think that if Q.C and Q.A in education or assessment standards forced, than
better acceptance of SRU degree holders will be result.
So RPL/RCC and AQF/AQTF standards at SRU will help people even more.
I propose that all RA degree holders take an examination lets say every 5 years
in order to support their degree.
Just like with professional CERT's.
You need to continue your education in order to maintain the CERT's or be
reexamined.
You worked hard and stayed out of trouble for 4, 6, maybe 8 (Ph.D.) years
Its a real achievement and no one should underestimate this.
What about a person who did well at a company for 4, 6, 8 years, he is an
expert in his craft, why not let this person have equivalent degree to his
achievements?
I got my RA Masters 20 years ego. To be honest today I don't remember a lot of
what I learned at school.
For example I took Assembler 3 units and advanced Assembler additional 3 units
and Assembler lab 4 units.
I didn't work with it for more than 15 years - no one is using it anymore :-).
In general today there is a trend to convert experience to university credit
even by professors in credential evaluation agencies.
Some NACES member credential evaluation agencies offer this service.
Were a very knowledgeable professor will make a recommendation on persons
experience
and provide statement of equivalency to university credit or degree.
Peter French
will entail either researching and publishing, OR professional accreditation
which i turn will require some ongoing type of professional development.
THAT is how you stay in front, and keep you knowledge, skills and attributes
current.
To suggest that one must requalify formally on an ongoing basis is neither
feasible nor necessary. Most of us have professional licenses to maintain
and this does NOT require fresh degrees/courses.
Peter French
"JManch9943" <jmanc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021223183508...@mb-fq.aol.com...
JManch9943
If he knows his stuff, than we are more flexible with degree requirements.
SRU degree has the same chance as AICS, or Thomas Edison or Oregon State
Univ.
--------------------------------------------------------------
A. How long ego a person got his degree.
B. Experience (major factor)
C. Continuing education and/or training.
In my group we have a Phoenix MBA who is not so good and maybe on a way out and
CCU - California Coast Univ MBA who is defiantly exceeds expectations.
I know 2 people is not an indicator.
To bad we don't have some one from Oregon State - so we can compare him to the
CCU grad. (in Oregon CCU is elegal )
J Manch
JManch9943
If a degree was a requirement to get your license in a first place?
My wife had to register for MFCC
no later than a year after graduation from National University (RA) Masters
degree.
Why is that?
Why can't she do it after 3 years?
The Board of Behavioral Science knows why. She would need more classes to take
in order to qualify.
Jay
Your disagreement is welcome, everyone is entitle to an opinion in our
democracy, however, you still have not expand on "RPL". Please note
that the "RPL" definition given before is in "quotes", from an
Australian Government Department Web source, quoted as a "case in
point".
If you have another definition version, you can enlighten the
newsgroup, rather than talk in generalities, anyone can do that.
In terms of public statements, it seems that you are conducting
something similar to a "trial by media". If you use this newsgroup to
enhance knowledge, you have my full support. The problem is that this
newsgroup has turned into a circus and you one of the "ring leaders".
If Saint Regis University in no good, it will die a natural death,
opinions from you or me makes no difference to their ultimate path, we
are just nuisance value.
Institutions like Harvard, MIT, Oxford etc, survive on the quality of
its product, tested over time. They don't have to "bash" another
Institution to capture market share. People see it as a previlege, a
joy of achievement to be accepted there. MIT is even making its course
resources free of charge over the net, knowing full well through their
market research that even more people will gravitate towards them
(another marketing strategy).
Only time will tell whether Saint Regis University reaches that
critical mass through her market strategy, many things can change,
just like social norms and technology changes.
Some organisations may or may not have dark beginning, as another case
in point, Jardines began with the transportation in the opium trade
hundreds of years ago, now is an example of a good corporate citizen.
As an Australian, you should practice the national motto of "fair go
mate".
In term of the investigative journalists, their job is to use
sensationalism to sell newspapers. If the circulation numbers go down,
they get the bullet (flick).
Why should I prepare a case for you on behalf of Saint Regis
University, and what is it that bugs you (your sense of personalised
righteousness perhaps?). Your investigative journalist friend can talk
to them direct, they are grown up people and can fend for themselves.
Peter, leave it to the market and the international community. Your
contribution is more important in the knowledge development area where
(I think) you and I belong. This newsgroup needs this type of stuff.
In terms of "stooge", you may be a stooge for this newsgroup. These
types of descriptions once again demonstrate spitefulness.
What this newsgroup is going is like a playground bully boy, picking
on someone that is different, there is so much hate, prejudice in the
undertone of the conversations.
Please don't post a reply as I have a ton of work to do for the
locals. Got to contribute my share to the Australian Economy.
Merry Christmas and Happy Year
Jay
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message news:<6YJN9.4$hY5...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>...
Peter French
"Jay" <jw...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:138f2c98.02122...@posting.google.com...
George M Brown
> Do you sit on any ITTAB steering committee?
ITABs are disappearing.
>Perhaps you are a VETAB regulator.
Erm, he lives in Victoria my friend.
>You must have advanced usage of series 6 ANTA toolboxes.
Why must he?
> How many workshops have you attended last year on AQTF. Which area of
> AQTF is your concentration, version control? HR? Operations? Units of
> Competency mapping perhaps?
Each standard should be an area of concentration, not just one.
> Are you a AQF certified assessor
They do not exist.
Cheers,
George
Bakz
to review the Saint Regis U website? http://www.saintregisedu.org Can't
someone find something wrong here??? This whole thread is absolute dribble.
"George M Brown" <agb...@chariot.net.au> wrote in message
news:3e0a8...@news.chariot.net.au...
khadijah
Defamation Laws in Australia?
Thanks
Janenews:KFuN9.6$hI5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
khadijah
Fully agree.
We know what trial by media is like and how unlucky the poor bastards are
going to be regarldess of State jurisdictions when innocent persons
condemned flie into action!
Australia's Defamation and Libel and Slander Laws are an eternal Sambo! Let
me change this! lol:))
Cheers
Jay <jw...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:138f2c98.02122...@posting.google.com...
khadijah
I notice you never even bothered to take the time to address let alone reply
to my message. Thankyou.news:47KN9.7$hY5...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
Peter French
Then they argue that the accreditation by Liberia allows accrediting
agencies to assess these degrees as equal to US RA degrees.
The retort/reply to contrary view put by whoever resulted in a whole lot of
ridiculous crap from some Aussie trying to knock me down with useless and
inaccurate 'facts' about the Australian education system.
St Regis-Hoyer-IUFS-Swift Eagle-Oxford Whatsit ... coincidence or not?
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:WS5P9.7909$LO5.179...@twister2.starband.net...
George M Brown
Australians - it is, after all, globally accredited by the Ministry of
Education in Liberia!!! NOOSR would hold that in high regard....NOT!!!
Cheers,
George
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message
news:yNcR9.5$2H1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
Peter French
It IS a degree - it is accredited by a department of education in a country.
It is OK'd by a proper US evaluator.
SO it meets GAAP - stick that where the sun doesn't shine!
PF
"George M Brown" <agb...@chariot.net.au> wrote in message
news:3e160...@news.chariot.net.au...
George M Brown
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message
news:o2oR9.5$JN1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
Bakz
shines occasionally. Liberia doesn't get it.
"Peter French" <pjfr...@CarlyleEducation.com.au> wrote in message
news:o2oR9.5$JN1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
George M Brown
Cheers,
George
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:XLsR9.9824$Ig2.2798383308@twister2.starband.net...
Bakz
"George M Brown" <agb...@chariot.net.au> wrote in message
news:3e174...@news.chariot.net.au...
Peter French
You see, George doesn't like people getting degrees in 5 minutes - more like
5 years for him. You also see that he doesn't think that a St Regis degree
is the same nut Liberia says that it is and so does an evaluator - so St
Regis = Liberia [GAAP] = US/RA [GAAP] which must =Oz [GAAP]
St Regis seems like SUCH a wonderful idea :-))))))))) especially as they
don't require any papers, dissertation or anything like that!
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:3FIR9.9981$sL2.2896449625@twister2.starband.net...
George M Brown
"Bakz" <bake...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:3FIR9.9981$sL2.2896449625@twister2.starband.net...
Bakz
> That WAS nice - should listen to us when we get rough :-)
>
> You see, George doesn't like people getting degrees in 5 minutes - more
like
> 5 years for him. You also see that he doesn't think that a St Regis degree
> is the same nut Liberia says that it is and so does an evaluator - so St
> Regis = Liberia [GAAP] = US/RA [GAAP] which must =Oz [GAAP]
>
> St Regis seems like SUCH a wonderful idea :-))))))))) especially as they
> don't require any papers, dissertation or anything like that!
>
ever happened to the St. Regis "Good Friars?" Given their past reputation,
and the fact that their degrees are unusable in a number of US States I feel
that Saint Regis University is not a very “viable” (is that word okay?) for
the US DL student.
Bakz
> Well, my daddy is a policeman!!!
>
:>)
javadoc
Just to see what they would offer I sent them a REALLY bogus "life
experience resume". For the right price they would have given me
anything. Total junk.
---
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Dr. Brown
The fact has become abundantly clear that there is some dissention
regarding the legitamacy of SRU degrees. Although the assesment process
is very un-traditional, one cannot in the vain attempts to justify
oneself, expostulate with precedents which are absent. Never has there
been a College that evaluates in such a way and is still accredited by
the Ministry of education. In a legal respect, An SRU degree is more
legitamite than a regionally accredited degree, in that it is
recognized by the highest authority, the government. One should not
dismiss the importance of life-experience. When a college student
graduates from college, he does not suddenly transform theoretical
rhetoric into viable reults does he? He does not have adequate real
life experience does he?
Knowledge is useless without the demonstrated results, therefore it is
my judgement that life-experience degrees accredited in a legitamite
manner by the appropriate authority is to be more higly esteemed than a
regionally accredited degree.
Ecuse the exaustive length of this post
Dr. Brown
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article66.html
Dr. Brown------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Storm
I am not a SRU member/student, but as I was reading some of these
messages, I noticed that there are some heavy defamation going on
here... to defame SRU, just because someone did not agree with how SRU
operates... well, life is tough sometimes you know. Just because
someone disagrees with something doesn't mean that something is illegal
or phony.
Everyday, people share their roads with a lot of moron drivers, but
those moron drivers have licenses, which gives them a legal right to
drive on streets... I mean, I don't agree with it, but that doesn't
mean anything, does it? What matter is that they have the "right" to
drive as long as they have legal licenses, right...? SRU seems to be
legal, and legit according to what I read.
I'm sure that there are some people who would lie about their
backgrounds, experiences, knowledge, and skills to obtain degrees
through ST. Regis, but when things like that happens, that's not the
school's fault. When students cheat on their exams to find the easy
way out, that's not the school's fault. That's a big shame on the
cheaters. People should be honest, and people should rely on honesty,
but as you know, it's not a perfect world we live in.
If you really are good at what you do, then you deserve what you are
looking for. As long as you can back yourself up, then I don't see
there is anything wrong with it.
I have a degree through one of the technical schools in Colorado (yes,
I did attend the school), and I am good at programming in Visual C++.
I don't see anything wrong with me applying for a Master's at St.
Regis, because not only I can back myself up for it, but I also have
years of experience in Programming... The point is that just because
someone doesn't agree with something or some schools, doesn't mean they
are not legal... period. Just trying to use my logic, that's all....
Peace!
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article66.html
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quzzling
correctly, Doctor.
"Dr. Brown" <Dr.Brow...@email.onlinecollege.info> wrote in message
news:Dr.Brow...@email.onlinecollege.info...
John Bear
Just one.
Only one.
Merely one.
Thank you.
PS: Can you find thirteen spelling errors in the good Doctor's short
post?
Randy Harris
John Bear
Randy Harris wrote:
Randy: I could only find 10, along with several grammar errors.John: Sorry, I should have said spelling, grammar, and usage. Let me deconstruct. Can you find more? Is this a world record for someone with a doctorate?
----------------------------------------------------
The fact has become abundantly clear that there is some dissention (SP: 1)
regarding the legitamacy (SP: 2)
of SRU degrees. Although the assesment (SP: 3)
process is very un-traditional (SP: 4; NO HYPHEN)
(, one cannot (PUNCTAUATION: 5)
in the vain attempts to justify oneself, expostulate with precedents which are absent. Never has there
been a College (6: CAP ERROR) that evaluates in such a way and is still accredited by
the Ministry of education (7: CAP ERROR).
In a legal respect, An (8: CAP ERROR)
SRU degree is more legitamite (9: SP)
than a regionally accredited degree, in that it is recognized by the highest authority, the government. One should not
dismiss the importance of life-experience. (10: SP, NO HYPHEN)
When a college student graduates from college, he does not suddenly transform theoretical rhetoric into viable reults does he? He does not have adequate real life experience does he?
Knowledge is useless without the demonstrated results, therefore it is my judgement (11: SP)
that life-experience (12: SP)
degrees accredited in a legitamite (13: SP)
MichiganJFrog2112
> CHEA-recognized accreditation that have a policy of accepting credits or degrees of St. Regis, I
> would need to change my thinking about this institution.
>
> Just one.
>
> Only one.
>
> Merely one.
>
> Thank you.
>
What good would it do, Dr. Bear? If you, your loyal followers, or any
of the other "watchdogs" and "experts" caught wind of St. Regis
acceptance at any regionally-accredited college, it wouldn't change
your thinking about St. Regis. However, it would change your opinion
of the school that accepted St. Regis credits. As unlikely a scenario
that might be despite St. Regis' Liberian accreditation, the
regionally-accredited school that accepts St. Regis credits would
become inundated with protests and harassment calls by the watchdogs
and experts. I seem to recall a recent protest of a well-known PhD
(unaccredited) when he was offered a teaching position at a
DETC-accredited college.
Randy Harris
Randy Harris
"MichiganJFrog2112" <jdv...@netexecutive.com> wrote in message
news:34eca891.0305...@posting.google.com...
Paul Culin
I have such proof. From not one, but two well respected US RA
universities. (One in Dr. Bear's home state.) Vanguard University
and UCONN. Both state that they will accept SRU degrees for admission
to graduate school. The only degree not acceptable would be a law
degree from SRU. (SRU does not offer a law degree.) I know one SRU
grad that applied to several US RA schools are found overwhelming
acceptance.
I will disagree with you, though. I believe that Dr. Bear is an
honorable man. He clearly stated that he would change his posture
based upon fact. Once he is presented with the evidence, I'm certain,
that as a man of his word, he will concede this issue.
John Bear
MichiganJFrog2112 wrote
> What good would it do, Dr. Bear? If you, your loyal followers, or any
> of the other "watchdogs" and "experts" caught wind of St. Regis
> acceptance at any regionally-accredited college, it wouldn't change
> your thinking about St. Regis.
Of course it would. In the 29 years I have been churning out my books on distance degrees, I have
publicly changed my mind a great many times, sometimes from being very negative to being very
positive; sometimes in the other direction.
> However, it would change your opinion
> of the school that accepted St. Regis credits.
It might. Depends on their reasons for so doing.
> As unlikely a scenario
> that might be despite St. Regis' Liberian accreditation, the
> regionally-accredited school that accepts St. Regis credits would
> become inundated with protests and harassment calls by the watchdogs
> and experts.
Just as huge protests were made to schools that accepted South African degrees during the time of
apartheid, Vietnamese, German, Japanese and Italian degrees during the times that they were enemies .
. . and so on, almost always to no avail. As I learned clearly in my own doctoral research on
complaining, if the recipient of a large volume of protests is very firm in their beliefs, then even
millions of protest letters, petitions, etc., will have no effect.
John Bear
>
> I have such proof. From not one, but two well respected US RA
> universities. (One in Dr. Bear's home state.) Vanguard University
> and UCONN. Both state that they will accept SRU degrees for admission
> to graduate school. The only degree not acceptable would be a law
> degree from SRU. (SRU does not offer a law degree.)
John Bear replies:
"Dr. Blackwell" sent me your so-called proof from the University of Connecticut. It most emphatically did NOT state that
they would accept SRU degrees for admission to graduate school. As re-emphasized by the writer of the memo, their
Director of Graduate Admissions, it referred only to the general concept of a Liberian bachelor's being acceptable, and
absolutely NOT the acceptability of SRU.
Indeed, she has written me with great clarity stating that SRU is not acceptable to the University of Connecticut. I am
posting all of that information in a separate thread here.
> I know one SRU
> grad that applied to several US RA schools are found overwhelming
> acceptance.
If you would care to provide proof of this, I would be very pleased to see it.
> I will disagree with you, though. I believe that Dr. Bear is an
> honorable man. He clearly stated that he would change his posture
> based upon fact.
If proof is provided, I will certainly change my statement that to my knowledege, none of the 6,000+ US colleges and
universities with recognized accreditation has a policy of accepting SRU degrees.
That certainly did not happen with the University of Connecticut. Exactly the opposite, in fact.
If you or any of your colleagues would provide me with your evidence from Vangard University, and of the SRU grad that
found "overwhelming acceptance," I will be very pleased to have that
> Once he is presented with the evidence, I'm certain,
> that as a man of his word, he will concede this issue.
You bet.
maurilehr
wrote:
>
> The fact has become abundantly clear that there is some dissention
> regarding the legitamacy of SRU degrees. Although the assesment process
> is very un-traditional, one cannot in the vain attempts to justify
> oneself, expostulate with precedents which are absent. Never has there
> been a College that evaluates in such a way and is still accredited by
> the Ministry of education. In a legal respect, An SRU degree is more
> legitamite than a regionally accredited degree, in that it is
> recognized by the highest authority, the government. One should not
> dismiss the importance of life-experience. When a college student
> graduates from college, he does not suddenly transform theoretical
> rhetoric into viable reults does he? He does not have adequate real
> life experience does he?
>
> Knowledge is useless without the demonstrated results, therefore it is
> my judgement that life-experience degrees accredited in a legitamite
> manner by the appropriate authority is to be more higly esteemed than a
> regionally accredited degree.
>
> Ecuse the exaustive length of this post
> Dr. Brown
Some 1
> your loyal followers, or any of the other
> "watchdogs" and "experts" caught wind
> of St. Regis acceptance at any
> regionally-accredited college, it wouldn't
> change your thinking about St. Regis.
In my case, what you write is basically true. If a university accepts
St. Regis degrees, I probably wouldn't think any better of St. Regis,
but I'd question those that decided to accept the degree.
Why? Because I don't think that St. Regis is a credible university.
Frankly, I suspect that it's academically and intellectually empty, and
is exploiting hollow claims of Liberian "accreditation" for all that
they are worth.
Look, the point here is academic credibility. Accreditation means
nothing if it doesn't mean that. Accreditation is a mechanism that
(theoretically) helps ensure that universities are examined by competent
outside parties who are themselves known and trusted.
In St. Regis' case we have no evidence that anyone in Liberia examined
the school's academics or operations. St. Regis isn't even located in
Liberia. So what possessed St. Regis to seek Liberian accreditation in
the first place, and what possessed the Liberians to give it to them?
Did Africans really fly out to St. Regis' home base, wherever that is?
How did they possibly inspect all of the many St. Regis franchises that
are scattered all around the world?
We don't even know that Liberia has a credible accreditation mechanism
in place. To the best of my knowledge, Liberia only has two
universities. Would a nation maintain a whole educational assessment
office in it's ministry of education, with nothing to do? If Liberian
"accreditation" is to be credible, the process has to be trustworthy,
well-tested and transparent. What's to prevent this whole thing from
simply being a matter of grandiose job titles and bribes?
Keep in mind that Liberia has been in a state of chronic civil war for
many years, that it barely has a functioning government at all, and that
it isn't even clear that its domestic universities are currently
operating.
I did a Google search for 'St Regis University' and for 'Saint Regis
University'. In the first ten pages of results, I found franchise
operations, a site selling the franchises, and listings on several
college guide sites. I found what I interpret as evidence of aggressive
marketing.
What I didn't see were ANY signs of academic work. The place grants
doctorates, but I didn't see any sign of any publications or
presentations at professional gatherings. I couldn't find any
departmental webpages or any references to research being conducted by
St. Regis scholars. I didn't see any reference to them by professional
or scholarly organizations at all.
To me, the "Google test" is the most reliable indicator of a school's
credibility. A phony school can put up a professional looking webpage. A
phony school can claim one or another form of spurious "accreditation".
But research productivity and professional and scholarly recognition are
very hard things to fake.
If St. Regis really is a legitimate university and believes that it
isn't getting the respect that it deserves, then the task before it is
twofold:
1. St. Regis has to make its unique and untested accreditation process
credible and transparent. It has to explain fully and in detail not only
how the process works, but why it was chosen over more conventional
forms of accreditation. It's not enough to insist that people are
somehow obligated to take the school on faith, simply because it
presents a document on the letterhead of a ministry of some nation
state.
2. St. Regis has to produce some additional evidence of its academic
credibilty. Weird opaque accreditation claims aren't sufficient. If St.
Regis is granting doctorates, it has to show that it has an intellectual
life. It needs to show some research productivity, some scholarly
participation and (easily most important) to gain some positive
recognition from independent outside parties who are themselves well
known and widely trusted.
Paul Culin
"diploma mill-scam" comments.
You, Sir or Ma'am, make a number of very valid points. I believe that
SRU should most certainly address your comments. You ask for nothing
unreasonable.
Paul Culin
> St. Regis degrees, I probably wouldn't think any better of St. Regis,
> but I'd question those that decided to accept the degree.
>
> Why? Because I don't think that St. Regis is a credible university.
Why? Because SRU's program differs than traditional schools? Please
explain.
> Frankly, I suspect that it's academically and intellectually empty, and
> is exploiting hollow claims of Liberian "accreditation" for all that
> they are worth.
How can you say Liberian accreditation is "hollow"? Please explain.
> Look, the point here is academic credibility. Accreditation means
> nothing if it doesn't mean that. Accreditation is a mechanism that
> (theoretically) helps ensure that universities are examined by competent
> outside parties who are themselves known and trusted.
>
> In St. Regis' case we have no evidence that anyone in Liberia examined
> the school's academics or operations.
Do you have "evidence " of ANY MoE examinations of ANY schools? The
FACT is that of course SRU has been examined.
St. Regis isn't even located in Liberia.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? SRU is most certainly located
in Liberia. It is physically located there as well as incorporated
there.
So what possessed St. Regis to seek Liberian accreditation in
> the first place, and what possessed the Liberians to give it to them?
> Did Africans really fly out to St. Regis' home base, wherever that is?
> How did they possibly inspect all of the many St. Regis franchises that
> are scattered all around the world?
SRU inspects its own affiliates, and it has no "franchises".
> We don't even know that Liberia has a credible accreditation mechanism
> in place.
But you act as though you do know and that you do not approve. But you
state you do not know, so how in the world can you disapprove of any
practice?
To the best of my knowledge, Liberia only has two
> universities.
What is the source of this "knowledge"? It is grossly inaccurate. I
have a letter from the Liberian Ambassador that clearly states that
SRU is a fully accredited Liberian University, empowered to grant
distance degrees.
Would a nation maintain a whole educational assessment
> office in it's ministry of education, with nothing to do? If Liberian
> "accreditation" is to be credible, the process has to be trustworthy,
> well-tested and transparent. What's to prevent this whole thing from
> simply being a matter of grandiose job titles and bribes?
This is insulting. I wouldn't accuse anyone of offering or taking
bribes.
> Keep in mind that Liberia has been in a state of chronic civil war for
> many years, that it barely has a functioning government at all, and that
> it isn't even clear that its domestic universities are currently
> operating.
Yes, Liberia has problems. But by your own admission, this is not
clear.
>
> I did a Google search for 'St Regis University' and for 'Saint Regis
> University'. In the first ten pages of results, I found franchise
> operations, a site selling the franchises, and listings on several
> college guide sites. I found what I interpret as evidence of aggressive
> marketing.
Like the U of Phoenix? I'd say their marking is much more aggressive.
> What I didn't see were ANY signs of academic work. The place grants
> doctorates, but I didn't see any sign of any publications or
> presentations at professional gatherings. I couldn't find any
> departmental webpages or any references to research being conducted by
> St. Regis scholars. I didn't see any reference to them by professional
> or scholarly organizations at all.
SRU is a private, Liberian University. If you have been to the SRU
website as of late, you would have seen the new degree by exam
programs. Changes are bring made.
>
> To me, the "Google test" is the most reliable indicator of a school's
> credibility. A phony school can put up a professional looking webpage. A
> phony school can claim one or another form of spurious "accreditation".
Have you done a "Google test" on schools like U of Phoenix or Capella?
Please explain how you arrived at the "spurious accreditation"
conclusion.
>
> But research productivity and professional and scholarly recognition are
> very hard things to fake.
>
> If St. Regis really is a legitimate university and believes that it
> isn't getting the respect that it deserves, then the task before it is
> twofold:
>
> 1. St. Regis has to make its unique and untested accreditation process
> credible and transparent. It has to explain fully and in detail not only
> how the process works, but why it was chosen over more conventional
> forms of accreditation. It's not enough to insist that people are
> somehow obligated to take the school on faith, simply because it
> presents a document on the letterhead of a ministry of some nation
> state.
Yes, it is. That is why a school applies for accreditation. One agency
governs accreditation so that schools do not have to go through the
same process with everyone in the world. SRU has proven their
credibility and value to the MoE. That is all that is required by any
school.
> 2. St. Regis has to produce some additional evidence of its academic
> credibilty. Weird opaque accreditation claims aren't sufficient. If St.
> Regis is granting doctorates, it has to show that it has an intellectual
> life. It needs to show some research productivity, some scholarly
> participation and (easily most important) to gain some positive
> recognition from independent outside parties who are themselves well
> known and widely trusted.
SRU is a small, private foreign school, not a public or state
university. Have you seen such things from other such schools?
You are very bright and write well. I enjoyed the exchange.
Mark Israel
> This is insulting. I wouldn't accuse anyone of offering or taking
> bribes.
Well, what other explanation have you for the solicitation letter
that the "National Board of Education, Inc." has been sending to
unaccredited schools?
The key paragraph is: "Your school will receive a Certificate of
Recognition directly from the Minister of Education of the Republic
of Liberia, valid for two years. The fee to NBOE covers ALL costs
involved and comes with a guaranty of acceptance. The fee is
$50,000 US. (Annual renewal: $20,000 per year)"
You can read the letter in full at:
http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7376
There is no mention of academic standards for accreditation
anywhere in the letter.
> How can you say Liberian accreditation is "hollow"? Please explain.
First, there is the above evidence of bribery.
Second, there is your own admission that Liberia has "accredited"
an institution, Saint Regis University, that has much less stringent
requirements than a US regionally accredited school. You wrote:
"I will concede that the requirements are far less stringent than
those of a US school, but that is the attraction."
( http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7329 )
> Yes, Liberia has problems.
You have expressed amazement that someone might find a degree
from the University of Liberia acceptable, but not one from Saint
Regis University, given that both institutions are "accredited" by
the same Ministry of Education.
The answer was furnished by Ike: the University of Liberia was
"established several decades ago. Liberia has not always been in a
bad shape. The country was once a very stable nation. Liberia
started falling apart in early 1980s after a coup d'etat that was
staged by non-commissioned army officers."
( http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8179 )
--
Mark Israel
MarkI...@aol.com
"You've opened a can of worms, my friend. Mess with me or how I
support my children, and I swear you'll eat them." -- Paul Culin,
in a series of e-mailed threats to me
Mark Israel
> The fact has become abundantly clear that there is some dissention
> regarding the legitamacy of SRU degrees. Although the assesment
> process is very un-traditional, one cannot in the vain attempts to
> justify oneself, expostulate with precedents which are absent.
Dr Brown, I hope you're aware that many US regionally accredited
schools award credit by portfolio, and that at the "Big 3" (Thomas
Edison State College, Charter Oak State College, and Excelsior
College), it is possible to earn a degree entirely by portfolio
credit.
You seem to be saying above that Saint Regis University's process
for awarding degrees is "very un-traditional" and without precedent.
Is there some respect in which SRU's process is academically
superior to the portfolio assessment process at US regionally
accredited schools? If so, can you please articulate what it is?
Or is it just that at SRU, the process has been watered down
so that a student's knowledge gets assessed as "college-equivalent"
when it isn't?
> In a legal respect, An SRU degree is more legitamite than a
> regionally accredited degree, in that it is recognized by the
> highest authority, the government.
We should not blindly respect this kind of "legitimacy". How
did you feel about the Iranian government's fatwa against Salman
Rushdie? Also "legitimate"?
The US regional accreditation system has its pros and cons.
The cons are (if you'll pardon the pun) the cons: many more diploma
mills flourish in the US than in some other countries, because of
the lack of centralized control, and because accreditation can only
be given a school after it has started awarding degrees, making it
impossible to ban unaccredited schools.
The chief pro is the widely valued academic practice of "peer
review": instead of having bureaucrats evaluate universities, we
have representatives of other universities evaluating universities.
Paul Culin
I have been banned from doing so. Is that the way degreeinfo
operates? They allow you to make a few posts, then ban you so that
you can not respond? Tell me Mark, why was I banned?
Mark Israel
> Thank you Mark. I would love to re-read the entire thread.
> However, I have been banned from doing so.
You are still capable of reading threads there, as your e-mail to me
has proved. The site has been down a lot lately, probably because of
technical difficulties.
> Tell me Mark, why was I banned?
I don't know. I have only your word for it that you *were* banned.
The moderators do have a rule that shilling for degree mills is not
allowed on the board, but I don't know whether they ruled that this
applied to you or not.
I don't care, either. Shilling for SRU does not advance the cause
of education; your threats are disturbing; and your "Bear Cubs"/
"What hypocracy!"/"What a forum of fools" comments show that your
respectful demeanour here is a sham.
In your latest (calmer) e-mail to me, you say that you would like
a specific factual correction made. It has to do with the following
words of yours:
"My employer is a major software development company that has
offices located in many different countries. Moreover, our US
offices are heavily staffed with degreed individuals from other
countries. [...] My employer has accepted my degree, and I am
satisfied."
Despite your use of the present and perfect tenses above, you
now say, "My SRU degree is NOT in my personnel file at [current
employer], nor was it ever mentioned to [current emplouyer]."
If you will allow me to verify this, I will indeed post the
correction. Personnel records must be confidential, so I assume you
must ask your Human Resources manager to disclose that information
to me.
Paul Culin
> correction. Personnel records must be confidential, so I assume you
> must ask your Human Resources manager to disclose that information
> to me.
Although I owe you nothing, e-mail me privately and I'll set it up.
In return, I want all posts concerning my employer and family removed
from degreeinfo and a complete apology. Deal?
Paul Culin
They take it upon themselves to do half-wit detective work on you
personal life, post false info about you, your family and your
employer. Then they have the nerve to ask you to prove your innocence
against their charges. I'll indulge Mark Israel. If I don't see a
formal apology here and on degreeinfo, I will sue for slander and
extortion. As you have seen by his post, he is blackmailing me into
releasing my personnel file to him. Swell guy, huh?
Pnwman
Umm, Paul? Mark was pointing out your making contradicting statements
about your employer's acceptance of a "St. Regis" "degree". How
exactly is that blackmail? It seems Mark's wit was right on the mark.
I certainly see nothing he should apologize for or delete. If you
think your employer would become upset about finding out about your
"St Regis" degree I can understand.
jaajr
p-man,
I cannot believe this carcass of a clown. Only an imbecile woyuld make
such a request. These people hide behind an electronic maze and ordain
them selves what???
Well rather than spend time dedicate finder service to my keyboard
over this,
I will go enjoy myslef with my family. And as the old saying goes,"It
is better
to keep your nouth clsoed else flies will get in it."
Paul Culin
> about your employer's acceptance of a "St. Regis" "degree". How
> exactly is that blackmail? It seems Mark's wit was right on the mark.
> I certainly see nothing he should apologize for or delete. If you
> think your employer would become upset about finding out about your
> "St Regis" degree I can understand.
Another member of the "Degree Gestapo" chimes in. After your comrade
calls my HR people, I'll present them with my SRU degree. I'm not
ashamed of it. But I was hired by my current employer without it
because of my reputation. A reputation that you people have slandered
by calling me a "fraud" and stating in a public forum that I am
defrauding my company. All predicated by stealing a post made in a
Private forum (in violation of copyright law) and re-posting it on a
public forum.
Now for your question. Mark and your Hitler Youth have made
slanderous and libelous comments about me. (Dr. Bear e-mailed me this
evening and agreed it is libelous and should be removed.) In order to
stop the slander, I must agree to the scrutiny of confidential
information, that by the way, is none of your pathetic business in the
first place. So as I have told your Degree Detective buddy, I'll let
him call in and his call will be recorded. If the posts are not
removed, he'll get to hear it in court. Would you care to further
your involvement in this little foray? If you had taken the time to
thoroughly read my posts, you would have read that I am a retired
police officer. I know what black-mail and extortion is. Keep
posting. It's all being saved.
Paul Culin
until their next victim comes along. My talking will be in court.
Paul Culin
John Bear
Paul Culin wrote:
> I am a retired
> police officer. I know what black-mail and extortion is.
But not, presumably, the difference between libel and slander.
Mark Israel
> Now for your question. Mark and your Hitler Youth have made
> slanderous and libelous comments about me. (Dr. Bear e-mailed me this
> evening and agreed it is libelous and should be removed.)
No, he did not.
I have just telephoned Dr Bear, and spoken to him for the first
time in my life. Dr Bear's words were "if libelous". Dr Bear
said that, if he were the owner or a moderator of degreeinfo.com
(which he isn't), "I'd surely be inclined to take down posts that
seemed clearly libelous to me." He did not agree that any
particular comment, message, or thread was libelous.
> After your comrade calls my HR people,
Right now I see no reason to do that.
> If I don't see a formal apology here and on degreeinfo, I will sue
> for slander and extortion.
I guess you'll be suing me, then. But the judge will find that
the case is without merit, so it will never go to trial.
> post false info about you, your family and your employer.
I have not done any of these 3. What I posted about your
employer was accurate, and from information publicly on the Web.
I have said nothing about your family, except to quote you.
You could, of course, enhance your family's privacy by not having
a family Website. But I haven't even quoted from that.
> Although I owe you nothing, e-mail me privately and I'll set it
> up. In return, I want all posts concerning my employer and family
> removed from degreeinfo and a complete apology. Deal?
No.
If you want something removed from the degreeinfo.com forums, you
should talk to (or sue) the moderators or the site owner. I don't
even have the power to do that.
"Complete apology": no. I sympathize with your family, who you
tell me are in distress; but that distress is due much more to your
actions than to mine. With you, who are now comparing me to a Nazi,
I can't really sympathize.
I owe *you* nothing. I did, out of the goodness of my heart,
offer to correct factual inaccuracies about you on degreeinfo.com,
since you no longer have access to it, with the proviso that I
should not have to take your word for it about what the facts are.
But since this will not satisfy you, there is no point in my making
such a call.
In this case, the inaccuracy you wanted corrected was not in
anything *I* said, but in something *you* said.
First you said, "My employer is [present tense] a major software
development company that has offices located in many different
countries. Moreover, our US offices are [present tense] heavily
staffed with degreed individuals from other countries. [...] My
employer has [perfect tense] accepted my degree, and I am
satisfied."
Then you said, "Persons on degreeinfo assert that I am using my
(non-Phd.) Music degree at my current employer [...]. That is not
true, nor did I ever mention that it is being used there. [...] The
company I referenced in my post no longer exists. [...] My SRU
degree is NOT in my personnel file at [current employer], nor was
it ever mentioned to [current employer]."
These two statements are contradictory, so either you lied making
the first statement, or you lied making the second statement. I
don't care which.
It would be libelous to call you a liar if I couldn't prove it.
But it's not libelous, because the proof is right in front of my
nose.
Paul Culin
Paul Culin
will be posting Mark Israel's employment information very soon. I
wonder if his employer knows that he engages in this type of activity?
Perhaps they will be interested to discover how he delves into the
personal lives of others and requests confiential information. Don't
wander into his cross-hairs. You may be next. However, what goes
around, comes around.
Mark Israel during his Degree Police investigations: "Personnel
records must be confidential, so I assume you must ask your Human
Resources manager to disclose that information to me."
What next Mark, sexual orientation, religion?
Paul Culin
could it possibly mean to you? Is your life so meaningless that you
feel the compulsion to delve into mine? Tell us, what do you gain by
this? Why do you torment people? Don't you care about the feelings
of others? Did I ever mention my name or employer on degreeinfo? The
statements I made there are correct. The company that accepted it was
bought out just a few months ago. My new company didn't ask for a
degree. (But I'll be submitting it tomorrow.) It's a music degree
and has no relevance to my technology job. I'm not depriving anyone
of a job because of it. (If that's your contention.) I was simply
expressing that it's acceptance. It was you who tried to piece things
together from the web. However, I was banned and could not clarify.
But again, what does my personal life have to do with you? If you can
not explain how my personal life is your business, one may surmise
that you must take pleasure from hurting other people's feelings.
Paul Culin
> Right now I see no reason to do that.
information to you. I guess it was because I told you the call would
be recorded. Wouldn't want that on tape, would you?
> You could, of course, enhance your family's privacy by not having
> a family Website.
Why Mark? Are there low-life people out there who use the web to dig
up information about people so they can torment them? Surely, no one
would be that sick. Would they Mark? What would you call someone who
would do that, Mark? Share with us.
Joe Rat
I am very curious, what did you learn to play, the drum, triangle or what?
Greetings
Joe Rat
Paul Culin <pcu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f9c0a42.03050...@posting.google.com...
Paul Culin
> Btw what instrument do you play?
> I am very curious, what did you learn to play, the drum, triangle or what?
> Greetings
> Joe Rat
>
Dennis Ruhl
Quote
"I will disagree with you, though. I believe that Dr. Bear is an
honorable man. He clearly stated that he would change his posture based
a man of his word, he will concede this issue."
Yes that silly old coot. We should certainly recognize all degree
programs that require no work. Especially those that receive an
offshore accreditation from a country in turmoil of which some people
might say has no legitimate government. Have any St. Regis staff ever
set foot in Liberia or even Africa.
Everyone certainly has enough life experience by the age of 40 to have
earned a doctorate. Or is that 30 or is that 10?
Some may point to Thomas Edison State College or Charter Oak State
College as giving large amounts of credit by portfolio assessment.
These schools require you to document your knowledge, rather than just
list it. In many cases it might be easier to write an exam than
prepare a portfolio. The knowledge documented has to parallel existing
regionally accredited university courses.
Oh yes and a degree from these schools is accepted by virtually all
other regionally accredited schools as opposed to none for St. Regis.
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article66.html
Dennis Ruhl------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Ruhl's Profile: http://www.online-college.info/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=70
Joe Rat
to write in Italian?
You play the drum, yes? Or perhaps even a trombone?
Regards
Joe Rat
Paul Culin <pcu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f9c0a42.03050...@posting.google.com...
Mark Israel
>> Il Joseph sono Siciliano e duole la mia famiglia
>
> I am afraid I didn't understand what you wrote, did you try
> to write in Italian?
Mr Culin seems to be insinuating that you are Mafioso. I would
translate: "Joseph is Sicilian and is hurting my family."
> You play the drum, yes? Or perhaps even a trombone?
The guitar. http://www.wholenote.com/teachers/item.asp?i=488
Mr Culin is "the Director of the Copeland Conservatory of Music"
( http://www.wholenote.com/member/profile/profile.asp?i=72330
Thank you, Rich.) He evidently gave his own school a 5-star
rating. ( http://www.wholenote.com/resources/revmain.asp?i=7613 )
Perhaps Mr Culin can clarify for us whom this conservatory
is named after? Aaron Copland? Stewart Copeland?
Joe Rat
is just a wee bit rusty.
I was interested in his posting because we are trying to
form a baroque ensemble in Turin, Italy.
Kind regards
Joe Rat
Mark Israel <MarkI...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b95mi0$52n$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Paul Culin
> > is named after? Aaron Copland? Stewart Copeland?
Thanks for the plug! You people are my best source of advertising! I
get repeated e-mails from people who have seen you slam me and want to
enroll because, as they say, "If those *%$#$ say it's bad, it's got to
be good." My enrollments have doubled since you people crawled out
from under your rock. :) Thanks!
Paul Culin
> >
> > I am afraid I didn't understand what you wrote, did you try
> > to write in Italian?
>
> Mr Culin seems to be insinuating that you are Mafioso. I would
> translate: "Joseph is Sicilian and is hurting my family."
>
discover that during the course of your Degree Police investigation?
You're slipping. It appears your Italian is worse than mine. I'm
sorry that your life is so boring that you take such an interest in
mine. Perhaps there is a reason for that. Perhaps I should get to
know you a whole lot better and find out.
Paul Culin
for jazz. When I was a kid, we had a Farfisa playing through a Leslie
825. It had the rotating 12" speaker. Man, that was some keyboard.
I think one of my brothers has it stashed in their garage. Probably
worth a fortune now. What do you think of Kurzweil and how they
emulate the B3 with sampling? You can respond to me by e-mail. I
don't want to detract attention from my tormentors.
Sorry guys. You can go back to inspecting my life now. I'm sure it
is a lot more interesting than yours.
Paul Culin
what you do? It seems to be something of a hobby of yours to disclose
everyone else's employment info, but you remain curiously silent on
yourself. Is it because of privacy issues? If you won't disclose it
here, (as you have disclosed mine,) readers may think you have some
sort of agenda. I'd like to know. I'm sure a lot of people would
like to know. Come on, there's no harm in telling us. If there was,
you wouldn't be doing it to me. Right?
Patrick Morris, Ph.D.
Look, Liberia is a poor country that raises money with paper licenses.
Many unfit ships sail the sea on Liberian "Flags" from companiews that
only have mail forwarding. Other licenses and businesses are located
there for tax and regulation ( or lack of regulation) purposes. The
state of Delaware is the "home" of many legitimate corporations
because they charge lower taxes, etc., but follow local and national
laws. If you want legitimacy you must go with the US Regional units
or several other nations proven commissions. People in general and
you in specific can do as you please but understand this -- a paper or
unrecognised degree does not protect you from fraud in any state in
the US. The "rule of reasonable man" requires you be prepared to
actually knowledgebly do what you say your degree says you can do. In
many fields the "act" of a discepline is regulated by the state
dispite whatever papers you display. One is actually acredited or has
completed the acreditation application which has been accepted -- this
later only means the review in formal process and confirs no power but
is a statement by action of a new or developing program or
institution. People can desiminbate information, training and all
kinds of "information" but should not, and increasingly cannot
misrepresent themselves as somrthing that has defined and legally
sanctioned meaning.
Dennis Ruhl
If you do nothing for your degree, your degree is worth absolutely
nothing.
Masters and doctorates based on what you already know is pretty much as
silly as it gets.
Grads from these schools should be cowering instead of trying to
justify their degree. Is there no shame anymore?
SnakeShow
I would hate to drag this on, but I would like to share my point of
view, this coming from someone who had once seriously considered
getting a degree from Saint Regis.
No, I don't have a Bachelor's degree. I never even cared to get one. I
had no worries about going to college and getting a degree, and not
because of the money. I never had a need for it. One thing I want to do
is make video games, to develop and write them, and I don't need a
degree to make my own games.. So why should I care about it?
You see, I never considered getting a degree until I found out about
this program in Japan, where they accept American's to go and live in
there and teach "out of school" English classes.
It has been a dream of mine to go to Japan forever.. When I heard about
this program, it gave me such hope that I would be able to go and live
in Japan, that it was one of the happiest moments in my life in a long
time. But it didn't last long.
To enroll in this program, applicants are required to have a Bachelor's
Degree. Not a teachers degree, mind you. You don't even need to speak
Japanese. Any type of Bachelor's Degree will do. If they gave degrees
for cutting wood, that would meet the requirement. They don't care
about the degree. They are so desperate for English speakers that it
doesn't matter what type of degree you hold. Even though a mandatory of
7 years of English is taught in Japanese schools (hint: kids don't
really care about English until they grow up), there is a huge demand
for people to teach English in Japan.. No ability or training in the
field of teaching is required for this program because applicants who
are accepted are hand fed everything they need to do. Even the
"Geniuses" are shown exactly how to go about their classes. Basically,
when you actually get to the classes in this program, those that have
Bachelor's in arts are on the same level as those with actual degrees
in teaching.
The degree is the least important thing in this program. Yet, it is
still required. Why? Because it says you are "Qualified".
But is that even true? "Qualified"?
How many of you remember what they taught you in high school? All that
math? How many of you actually use all that arithmetic you were taught?
Or any of the other rather useless information? How many of you are
required to have a knowledge of American history in your jobs?
Now, how many of you remember those countless classes to earn credits
in college?
The truth is, a vast number of people in college float through their
studies just like they did in high school. Many do not retain the
mostly useless knowledge that has little to do with their degree
program of choice. And yet, they get degrees.
How many of these people have something to show for their "knowledge"
other then a piece of paper and some transcripts? Because they "Took
the effort" to go to college, they are more qualified and accepted then
those that are not able to?
I really wanted to enroll in a school to get a degree. That was before
the hard truths hit me. You know how much the average credit hour costs
to those that cannot obtain scholarships? Someone like me has almost no
chance. I work a full time job (as a hotel desk clerk) and I have to
pay rent. It would be impossible to get a degree (unless someone here
can help provide information on what I could do to get one) in my
situation.
I'm a smart person. I am passionate, and creative, and I probably have
the biggest imagination in the world. I love to write, and draw, and
think, and create, and imagine, and dream. I have such a desire and
drive in me, and that can be applied to whatever I want or need to do.
And yet, I am not considered smart or qualified unless I get a degree
from a school. Intelligence is not only measured by what they teach you
in school. And the fact is, my intelligence could be comparable to your
average college graduate.
Now, when I considered getting a Saint Regis degree, it was not to get
a job that required a specific degree. I wanted to apply for a program
that doesn't require any degree at all, only that you must have one.
It really made no sense to me.
I couldn't apply for this program because I had no degree.. Yet, I knew
I was just as smart as most of those that had degrees that had applied
and got accepted to this program. I knew I could do it.. There is
probably people less qualified, and even less intelligent then me in
this program teaching English as we speak (or type).
Why should I go through the prolonged hassle of even attempted to
acquired a real degree when I was more then qualified to do this
without one? Why should I not get a fake degree, and how it works?
All I needed to get into this program was a certificate that said I had
a degree...
And you know, I'm sure I would have been accepted using a fake degree,
because believe me, they don't really give a rat's ass about the
legitimacy of degrees (unless it is publicly know that a degree from a
certain establishment is indeed fake), all they want is more sheep to
make them money by teaching English for them.
So, what does a degree really mean then? Why is it so important in
society? Why is it required for this Japanese program? Why? I will tell
you why. Because scum bags don't get degrees. Druggies don't get
degrees. Worthless pieces of shit don't get degrees.
I'm not one of those, yet, I am automatically grouped with those people
because I don't have a degree, and I am not given the chances I know I
deserve. And to get those chances, I am required to get a degree.
The need for a degree is used to weed out bad seeds, even though those
who hold degrees may be horrible people, just as bad as those who don't
hold degrees. I'm not saying this is true for doctors, or pilots, or
engineers. I'm talking about the day jobs. The grunts.
So, what are people like me supposed to do?
P.S. Anyone with suggestions on getting an actual degree, please, give
them. I still want to do the "right" thing and get a real degree.
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article66.html
SnakeShow------------------------------------------------------------------------
SnakeShow's Profile: http://www.online-college.info/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=74
Paul Culin
better things to do and I assume that you do as well. I've been told
that we *both* look like a couple of high school kids bickering. This
is clearly going nowhere, so goodbye.
May God Bless you and your family
Paul Culin
Some 1
> If St. Regis really is a legitimate
> university and believes that it isn't
> getting the respect that it deserves, then
> the task before it is twofold:
> 1. St. Regis has to make its unique and
> untested accreditation process credible
> and transparent. It has to explain fully
> and in detail not only how the process
> works, but why it was chosen over more
> conventional forms of accreditation. It's
> not enough to insist that people are
> somehow obligated to take the school
> on faith, simply because it presents a
> document on the letterhead of a ministry
> of some nation state.
Paul:
> Yes, it is. That is why a school applies
> for accreditation.
The credibility that accreditation provides is a function of the
credibility of the accreditation process.
When we are faced with a school that has questionable associations,
which seems to be re-selling its accreditation to other schools, which
claims off-shore "flag of convenience" accreditation from a war-torn
country that most likely doesn't even have a formal accreditation
mechanism, and when this is a new and untried process that no one is
familiar with, then it is only prudent to ask for some explanation and
some corroboration of what is being done.
It's ridiculous to insist that it has to be accepted as convincing just
because it arrives on government letterhead.
> SRU has proven their credibility and
> value to the MoE. That is all that is
> required by any school.
You left out a crucial step: The accreditation process itself still has
to be explained and validated.
Me:
> 2. St. Regis has to produce some
> additional evidence of its academic
> credibilty.
Paul:
> SRU is a small, private foreign school,
> not a public or state university. Have
> you seen such things from other such
> schools?
Yes.
If St. Regis claims accreditation that's unconvincing, and if it can't
point to anything else that would speak to its academic credibility,
then what does it have left? We are still faced with the question of why
anyone should believe in it.
Tish Wolfe
news:SnakeSh...@email.onlinecollege.info...
[wants bachelor's because he wants to go to Japan, by teaching English
there]
> So, what are people like me supposed to do?
So, get a degree.
See http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/mainmenu.html for a lot of info
on how to get credit through examination and portfolio assessment. See
http://www.degreeinfo.com/article6_1.html for more info on proficiency
exams.
Rich Douglas
Do you have a master's degree from St. Regis?
Are you affiliated with Copeland?
Both are degree sellers, having no academic processes, curricula, faculties,
facilities, etc. Nor are either really Liberian schools. From what I found
on the internet, the above questions can be answered "yes."
Rich Douglas
"Paul Culin" <pcu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f9c0a42.03050...@posting.google.com...
MosheW
Working and gaining knowledge at work
is not = DOING NOTHING !
Many working people become MASTERS of their trade. Yo denay recognition is
silly as it gets.
ACE - American Consul on Education
published the equivalent of vocational training and other guidelines on
recognition of experience.
For example in England in IEE
there is a designation of Chartered Engineer.
Many ways lead to the designation.
An accredited degree is one way.
Another way is qualifying professional experience, if one can document that he
worked as an engineer with deferent outlined by IEE responsibilities -- that
person can
qualify for designation of Cha-eng.
There is a RA university in US that grants degrees mostly on Portfolio
Assessment.
The process is expansive and difficult but it is possible.
My MS in CSc is 21 years old degree.
The systems I studied then are in museums now.
Other classes that gave me good tools for
future were learning how to do a good research and critical tinking.
Pnwman
Hmmm... A Christian degree mill operator! Somehow those two traits
seem in direct conflict.
John Bear
fraud, wire fraud, tax fraud, and conspiracy (for his LaSalle University), and went off to federal prison,
he was the presiding Bishop of the World Christian Church. According to newspaper accounts, he had taken a
vow of poverty -- and so the church owned his $1.5 million home on the river, his Porches, and so on.
Mark Israel
At the time Mr Culin posted that message yesterday, the Website
gave no indication that the school was closing. But it now says:
| Dear Students,
| As many of you know, CCM had stopped enrolling applicants in early
| April. We have now officially ceased operations.
| The staff of CCM wishes to thank you for your kind support and
| friendship over the past few months.
| Our only regret is that no one had made it to graduation.
| Good luck to you all!
Despite the "enrollments have doubled" and the "early April", we
may have just shamed Mr Culin into shutting down his school.
Marty S.
or in a sticks 'n bricks school. A lot of people spend a lot of time
becoming masters of their profession. That is what they get paid to do. A
lot of people read on their own and learn a lot through life's experiences.
If someone wants that experience validated, either professional or life's
learning, they can get a "portfolio assessment" but please don't pretend
that that is an equivalent of a college degree. Equating this with a real
college education, either online or in a traditional environment is
nonsensical.
I agree with a previous poster -- people who buy their degrees and then
vehemently try to defend their worth in the job market look kinda
ridiculous.
Just my opinion.
--
Marty S.
Baltimore, MD USA
"MosheW" <mos...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030506000706...@mb-m01.aol.com...
MosheW
>> A "portfolio assessment" is not the same as a college degree earned online
or in a sticks 'n bricks school.
Wow! we equate now ON LINE with TRADITIONAL?
We all know that not so long ego Traditional Universities considered Distance
Learning or Non Traditional degrees, on line and, etc., as lower rate schools.
There are top universities that many of them look at other RA schools as low
grade (some times joke)
Then you have RA versus NA.
Look I'm not supporting purchase of a degree.
But I'm in support of recognition of experiential work place learning as
qualification.
For example 2 engineers one has a BS degree and lets say 5 years of R&D
in NASA.
The other one earned BS degree than continued and earned MS degree.
Who is the real MASTER in this case?
We all want to be trated by experienced Medical Doctor and not by intern.
So why this experience can't be validated by a higher degree?
Maybe its not possible in all professions.
And I think the level should be no more than Bachelors or Masters degree.
>> If someone wants that experience validated, either professional or life's
learning, they can get a "portfolio assessment" but please don't pretend
that that is an equivalent of a college degree. >>
I believe that in some cases its more valuable than a college degree.
I was for 2 years a technical Instructor. (In early 80s after working in the
Lab for 3 years I became Instructor in the interim training lab.)
New technical personnel arriving from collages and technical schools were
trained in Air Force technical school.
When we let them work in our lab the damage that was created by new engineers
to the equipment was very serious.
So we started a separated training class/lab and it was there when we passed
our experience to the fresh engineers and there we instructed them for a
specified
time lengt until they passed our practical and theory tests.
Only then we let them work in our main lab.
Experience can make the deference in life threatening situations in our life.
Why not reward it.
Moshe
Bill Huffman
for a Bachelor's degree then there are accredited degrees that you can
earn. You just take tests proving that you have attained the required
knowledge for each required course and then the degree is yours.
Here's a link for more information.
http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks/
SnakeShow <SnakeSh...@email.onlinecollege.info> wrote in message news:<SnakeSh...@email.onlinecollege.info>...
Dennis Ruhl
I notice that St. Regis is on Oregon's list of illegal degrees. I
wonder if Alan Contreras knows about Copeland?
---
View this thread: http://www.online-college.info/article509.html
Dennis Ruhl
From Copeland's website:
"As many of you know, CCM had stopped enrolling applicants in early
April. We have now officially ceased operations.
The staff of CCM wishes to thank you for your kind support and
friendship over the past few months.
Our only regret is that no one had made it to graduation.
Good luck to you all!"
Phone call from the boys in Austin? And they were accredited and
everything.