Dear Beav,
Jim Dumas
brain lacks enough glucose to function properly. Your 5.1% HbA1c, in a
reference range of 5-7% for normals, suggests you are chronically
hypoglycemic. It would be healthier to keep your HbA1c at the high end of
normal, say 6.5%. This will minimize brain damage from long-term low blood
sugars. It will also make you an easier person to get along with, as well as
make you more productive. Moreover, you're at an age where DM complications
will take too long to develop before something else moves you across the
river.
As an example, my typical 5.8-6.1% HbA1c is in a reference range of 4.1-6.1%
for normals. I believe this is the optimum point to be, to minimize
complications and still have normal mental functions.
In short, I propose a truce. If you don't bother me, I will not bother you.
But expect to get clobbered if you're in my face.
This is simply an extension of the "Golden Rule." Sincerely,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove deSPAMMER)
T1 4/86, Beavis: MILD bgnd retinopathy, rarely HG: <1/mo.
lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, <6% HbA1c typ.
Big Nascar Fan
with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
You're starting to sound like her.
Jim Dumas
>
> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
>
> You're starting to sound like her.
Hi Paul,
Everything in life requires a careful balance. If you get too focused in one
or the other extreme, there is a cascade of negative events that hurts a
large number of people.
I realize that Beav's use of CP beef insulin is near and dear to your heart,
(as well as Dave Groves'). But if used incorrectly, it could cause just as
much hypoglycemia as human insulin. So the issue isn't what insulin but why
too much insulin (or too little food).
I believe Beav's disposition is poor because he is hypoglycemic. He says he
feels bad if he tries to let his BG risen (the brain set-points will
eventually change/adjust). So we have an impasse. The solution is to stay
out of each other's way. I for one do not plan to suffer at Beav's hand
simply because he is hypoglycemic. So if he bugs me then I'll bug him.
Eventually, even if hypoglycemic, you'll get the message.
So I proposed this truce. Let's see if he's man enough to accept it.
Marilyn "McView"
news:3C377923...@bigger.com...
> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
Amazingly, you have been far more critical of "another T1" than Jim has ever
been. Beavis has doing his share of bashing Jim. I have never once
criticized you.
--
Marilyn
Jim Dumas
>
> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
>
> You're starting to sound like her.
Hi again Paul,
You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were usually
on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.
I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I must
agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
One final point, it is far better for a T1 to help another T1, (you may not
see it that way right now, but give it time), then to let him sail toward the
sounds of the Sirens and perish. If this requires a 2"x4" wallop up-side the
forehead, then that's what it takes.
Sorry to disagree,
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C37A87B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...
> Big Nascar Fan wrote:
> >
> > Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> > with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
> >
> > You're starting to sound like her.
>
> Hi again Paul,
>
> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I
were usually
> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion
where we
> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no
malice.
>
> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with
Beav. So I must
> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
>
> One final point, it is far better for a T1 to help another T1,
(you may not
> see it that way right now, but give it time), then to let him
sail toward the
> sounds of the Sirens and perish. If this requires a 2"x4"
wallop up-side the
> forehead, then that's what it takes.
You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it is,
just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it matter
nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out the
emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink or
glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon shot
and never even come close to being unconscious.
Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of 18
months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and when I
feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing something
right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the right
foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as a
first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in check.
(Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so later
you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.
I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of the
time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't care. I
gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.
Granted you probably won't see me, but then again, you might get
lucky.
Finally, you couldn't smack me upside the head with a 4" X 2" if
you had all your pals to help you.
Beav
Jim Dumas
>
> Granted you probably won't see me, but then again, you might get
> lucky.
>
> Finally, you couldn't smack me upside the head with a 4" X 2" if
> you had all your pals to help you.
Dear Beav,
I'm sorry you're up so late. But with all your verbage I still don't know if
you've accepted the truce. It's nice to see an absence of malice in your
post, however.
So is the truce accepted?
Jim Dumas
Let me sweeten my offer:
> You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it is,
> just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it matter
> nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out the
> emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink or
> glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon shot
> and never even come close to being unconscious.
I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of the HbA1c
scale. If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower than 5-7% from
your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me. (I'd have to accept
you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)
> Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
> complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of 18
> months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and when I
> feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
> before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing something
> right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the right
> foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as a
> first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
> wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
> whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in check.
> (Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so later
> you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
> overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.
You're doing almost everything right. If I'm correct about you being
chronically hypoglycemic, then your brain is getting fried in the process.
> I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of the
> time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't care. I
> gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
> didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
> beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.
Nature is inconsistent. So I told a pregnant woman, who is new to insulin
therapy, to go slow and prevent overdosing the fetus, (thereby shocking the
little one). You're upset that I didn't tell her to stuff herself now that
she has insulin? You should be praising me for following Beav's rules on
this one. Insulin is just another tool in our toolbox. Like any tool, there
are times when it will not work for the application at hand. You must know
how to use that tool properly for each situation. So I don't see any
inconsistency in my advice. That's just the way nature is.
Next, I'd like to thank you for your sound dietary advice in our early
exchanges. How were you to know that I was not a newbie and preferred to do
things my way.
Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no hostilities
by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude). They are just trying to help.
In return for your promise of no hostilities toward Marilyn and Paul; and a
simple truce with me, I'll drop my provocative sarcasm in my exchanges with
you. As Marilyn and attest, you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
Big Nascar Fan
achieve good glycohemaglobins. Go back to your dynamic
therapy and Compuserve.
When you've lived with this for 40 years, I'll listen.
You're a Mar clone.
Jim Dumas
>
> You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> achieve good glycohemaglobins. Go back to your dynamic
> therapy and Compuserve.
>
> When you've lived with this for 40 years, I'll listen.
>
> You're a Mar clone.
Nobody likes to hear the negatives of keeping your HbA1c too low. But there
is a downside that must be addressed. The point is, a careful balance is
required so neurons don't die.
AF Marilyn, we usually argue but I think she takes the opposite side of the
argument just to get more of my attention.
So you could be right,
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Dear Beav,
>
> Let me sweeten my offer:
Sweeten away.
>
> > You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it
is,
> > just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it
matter
> > nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out
the
> > emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink
or
> > glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon
shot
> > and never even come close to being unconscious.
>
> I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of
the HbA1c
> scale.
In YOUR opinion. Not in the opinion of the people at the diabetic
clinic. Or mine.
If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower than 5-7%
from
> your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me.
I posted what my lab normals are, and I posted what my A1c's have
been for the last 3 checks. They've always been at these levels
apart from one episode where it was much higher (faulty meter and
a bad 6 month period)
(I'd have to accept
> you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)
Jim, you seem to think that I somehow care WHAT you accept. I
don't.
>
>
> > Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
> > complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of
18
> > months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and
when I
> > feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
> > before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing
something
> > right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the
right
> > foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as
a
> > first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
> > wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
> > whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in
check.
> > (Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so
later
> > you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
> > overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.
>
> You're doing almost everything right. If I'm correct about you
being
> chronically hypoglycemic, then your brain is getting fried in
the process.
No frying going on round here. It still only takes me two or
three weeks to learn a whole piano symphony from scratch. (That
takes some remembering if you didn't know)
>
>
> > I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of
the
> > time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't
care. I
> > gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
> > didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
> > beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.
>
> Nature is inconsistent. So I told a pregnant woman, who is new
to insulin
> therapy, to go slow and prevent overdosing the fetus, (thereby
shocking the
> little one). You're upset that I didn't tell her to stuff
herself now that
> she has insulin? You should be praising me for following
Beav's rules on
> this one.
Actually no, I'm NOT upset that you told her what you did,
because you told her the right thing. I just wondered why you
don't practice what you preach and instead condemn someone who
DOES use food as a defence against complications. Seems to me
you're one of those "Do as I say and not as I do" types.
Insulin is just another tool in our toolbox. Like any tool,
there
> are times when it will not work for the application at hand.
You must know
> how to use that tool properly for each situation.
Indeed I do know. I also know that we use it primarily to
"handle" whatever food we eat, so it's re-active and not
pro-active. I prefer the pro-active route myself.
So I don't see any
> inconsistency in my advice. That's just the way nature is.
>
> Next, I'd like to thank you for your sound dietary advice in
our early
> exchanges.
Which is ALL I gave. No "advice" on how to insulin dose, when to
dose, or how MUCH to dose.
How were you to know that I was not a newbie and preferred to
do
> things my way.
And how were you to know that some people can EASILY run sugars
in the 3-6 mmol/ml range all day every day without a hint of a
problem? What is you call it? Nature? It works both ways, or as
it's usually known here "YMMV"
>
> Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no
hostilities
> by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude).
I don't need you to tell me who Paul is, I've met him personally.
They are just trying to help.
I know ONE of them is.
>
> In return for your promise of no hostilities toward Marilyn and
Paul; and a
> simple truce with me, I'll drop my provocative sarcasm in my
exchanges with
> you. As Marilyn and attest, you've only seen the tip of the
iceberg.
You can't resist can you? A piss poor attempt at the olive branch
in one hand and a threat in the other. It really frightens me
that you might type some nasty words which I might read (or might
not, depending on how I feel) if I decline your "offer". In fact
it makes me quake. With laughter.
>
> So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
Jim Dumas
>
> > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
>
> I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
Dear Beav,
You are so much fun. I accept your decision and want you to know my door is
always open for you.
But thanks for thinking about it,
Martin Boulger
Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the Hba1c bit "ref <
7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually specify a lower
point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of my Hba1cs was
just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just under 5. Don't
they call it the "under 5% club"?
Martin.
"Beavis" <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
news:mG3_7.2749$6q2.8...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Jim Dumas
>
> Guys,
>
> Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the Hba1c bit "ref <
> 7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually specify a lower
> point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of my Hba1cs was
> just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just under 5. Don't
> they call it the "under 5% club"?
You make a good point. My argument is based on the low normal HbA1c value.
In the DCCT, as an example, the normal range was based on a mean of 5.1% and
standard deviation of 0.5%. So the normal range was the mean plus or minus
two standard deviations that gives 4.1% to 6.1%. If I were keeping my BG low
and having an HbA1c of 4.2% (0.1% above the low end as Beav seems to have),
I'd be out cold on the floor 24 hours a day and nearly brain dead. But their
does also seem to be an up-regulation of glycogen stores in astrocytes in the
brain that fuel neurons under hypoglycemic conditions. So in theory, with
long-term hypoglycemia, the brain stores a small amount of extra glucose in
astrocytes that surround neurons. So the brain "learns" how to operate
better (but not normally) when chronically hypoglycemic.
In any case, since we seem to be using different assay methods between the UK
and the US, it's critical for us to know the low end of the normal range in
the lab. If Beav can prove the low end of the normal range for his lab is
4.1%, (as in the old Bio-Rad manual HPLC assay method of the DCCT), then I'd
have to concede to Beav. He would have a large margin for error and would
probably not be flirting with hypoglycemia.
Thanks for your post, Martin,
Nico Kadel-Garcia
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
> >
> > I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
>
> Dear Beav,
>
> You are so much fun. I accept your decision and want you to know my door
is
> always open for you.
>
> But thanks for thinking about it,
You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
was open.
Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
Jim Dumas
>
> You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
> was open.
>
> Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
Hi Nico,
I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it isolated to minimize
the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I can do that
as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused. So Beav
hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is quite simple.
Sorry to upset everyone, but I've been quite surgical about this,
Jim Dumas
>
> It would appear, you still have much to learn.
>
> "Sad"
Hi Gary,
I'm always interested in learning new ideas, I'm all eyes, continue,
Jim Dumas
>
> Jim,
>
> Sorry, But I am a firm believer in letting one learn by making
> mistakes, you are on your own. :-)
>
> Good luck!
Thanks Gary, you're wisdom stands as an example to others,
Marilyn "McView"
> You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> achieve good glycohemaglobins.
Bi,
(Since you feel free to shorten my name, I will return the favor)
I feel you have missed the point that Mr. Dumas was making. Most blood
tests have a normal range. When results are out of normal range, this
indicates a concern. Beavis has been saying his numbers are lower than
normal, in other words, he is outside of normal range. Being lower than
normal has its problems, just as being highter than normal does.
Beavis seems unwilling to admit that there are potential problems with being
lower than normal. He even goes as far telling Mr. Dumas that his
normal-range A1c is too high. While whatever Beavis does to himself is his
own business, bear in mind that we would all be yelling malpractice to a
doctor who pushed for lower-than-normal results.
I think you should look at what is being said instead of merely choosing
sides based upon who you have shared a joke or two with.
--
Marilyn
Marilyn "McView"
Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Hi again Paul,
>
> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were
usually
> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.
>
> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I
must
> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
Jim,
Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
separate the issues from the person.
I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".
--
Marilyn
Jim Dumas
>
> Jim,
>
> Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
> stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
> find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
> attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
> defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
> have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
> separate the issues from the person.
>
> I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
> have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".
Lookout!
The woman just got home!
That went better than I expected!
Thanks, Madame M!
Jim Dumas
>
> You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
> was open.
>
> Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
Just a quick note Nico,
I just measured BG and it was a 351 mg/dl. The epinephrine effects are
dominating in this dogfight mode. I noticed years ago, that when I get
focused writing computer programs, my BG skyrockets. So some adrenaline
effect has had me pumped all day. So no chance of hypoglycemia as I started
the day at a 451, took 27U of Humalog and just about nothing happened. And
no food all day. So roughage is quite necessary at this point. With that
said, I'll still hit my 6% HbA1c target. I've done it for years.
I use the AccuChek Complete with Comfort curve strips. So quite trusty.
But clearly not hypoglycemic,
Marilyn "McView"
Beavis <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
news:mG3_7.2749$6q2.8...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> > Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no
> hostilities
> > by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude).
>
> I don't need you to tell me who Paul is, I've met him personally.
>
> They are just trying to help.
>
> I know ONE of them is.
> >
Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)
--
Marilyn
Mack
<mcv...@home.com> wrote:
>
>Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:3C37A87B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...
>
>> Hi again Paul,
>>
>> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were
>usually
>> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
>> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.
>>
>> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I
>must
>> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
>
>Jim,
>
>Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
>stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
>find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
>attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
>defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
>have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
>separate the issues from the person.
if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
in others?
>
>I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
>have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".
Derek
Type 1 since 1975
Minimed 508 Insulin Pump
http://www.diabeticnet.com
http://sweetblood.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.diabetesinterview.com
http://www.zerolimit.net (irc server webpage for our chat room)
#diabeticnet is the name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net
http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe
http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <--Ircle Mac IRC software
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/06/cureall.htm
Jim Dumas
>
> Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)
You're welcome,
Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you should know that I
appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.
I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!
Jim Dumas
>
> if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
> him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
> in others?
Hi Dereck,
It's nice to see you're getting with the program, Derek. I welcome your
perspectives.
IMO, I'm just fighting fire with fire.
> >I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
> >have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".
Goals change as we do. So this political shift is natural and understood.
I have no problem with this, but please continue your thought train,
Jim Dumas
To keep Derek at bay,
The Humalog was pulled out of the refrigerator Xmas eve so has yet to hit the
28 day limit. It worked fine yesterday. I've also tried Novolog and it's
alittle more potent then Humalog.
It should be quite clear from this glimpse of my metabolism, that Beav's
methods will not work for me. More to the point, he should give up on me as
a Crusading goal because he doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle in
front of him.
Groves has long argued that I'm insulin resistant. He could be right,
Nico Kadel-Garcia
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >
> > You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> > because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth*
that
> > was open.
> >
> > Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
>
> Hi Nico,
>
> I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it isolated to
minimize
> the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I can do
that
> as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused. So Beav
> hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is quite simple.
Jim, have you ever *watched* serious surgery? It's quite messy. Those gowns
are only partly to keep the patient uninfected, they're also to protect the
clothes of people across the room from spraying fluids and flying bits from
some of the more interesting procedures. I've watched a few up close, and
designed some medical electronics that I've handled on the surgical floor:
such surgery involves bone bits spraying at fairly high velocity when the
pneumatic drill is applied.
But even more important to keeping the mess down, they do it in a different
room, one with a door. So if you're going to keep taunting, I suggest you do
it in private. Preferably with your sock drawer: that way, any body fluids
you might happen to create by having so much fun this way will be on your
clothes, not constantly dripped in a public area.
I mean, listen to yourself. "Oh, Beav, you *poor* dear. You *must* be
hypoglycemic, because you disagree so much with me, and that's what I've
decided about you. So you *must* be unable to continue this *fascinating*
discussion. Toddle along now, that's a good little boy, listen to your
auntie Dumas and go get a nice sweater to wear in front of the nice people."
Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....
Jim Dumas
>
> Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....
Hi Nico,
As a biomed grad student in 1993, I was in a VA OR a few times for course
work. So I've been there and done that.
But your suggestion to Beav will stop this quickly and I agree with you,
Jim Dumas
Would you care to mediate the dispute?
I think you'd make a good unbiased party to help us, will you?
Jim Dumas
>
> > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
>
> I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
Dear Beav,
I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he can help,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)
Marilyn "McView"
Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you should know that
I
> appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.
Gracias. Opinions can be argued until kingdom come and no one is never
right or wrong. If the opposing side has something to say then we should be
learning from it if only to strenghten our own opinion and come up with
better arguments. Closed minds, like closed parachutes, are worthless..
> I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!
Problem is I am an independant. Float like a butterfy <g> I've fought
fiercly with Beavis on this point before, I have no desire to do this again.
He is in denial about his hg unawareness and sadly has support from others.
Some seem to feel that it is perfectly normal to not feel any symptoms until
the 30s (but only if you are on beef). I've got better things to do than
fight with these yahoos again.
Marilyn "McView"
Mack <der...@diabeticnetnospam.com> wrote in message
news:mv7i3u4e78of78fpu...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:27:34 GMT, "Marilyn \"McView\""
> <mcv...@home.com> wrote:
> >Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do
not
> >stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate.
I
> >find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
> >attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
> >defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
> >have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people
cannot
> >separate the issues from the person.
>
> if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
> him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
> in others?
Derek,
Read my words. Did I say that any one person is exempt from my opinion?
Nope.
I happen to agree with him on this one point. He's not my buddy, he's not
my enemy. Next point I may agree with him and I may not. This is what
people do - unless they are arguing the person and not the idea.
--
Marilyn
Beavis
"Marilyn "McView"" <mcv...@home.com> wrote in message
news:qz7_7.73737$va.36...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com...
>
> Big Nascar Fan <nas...@bigger.com> wrote in message
> news:3C38AD62...@bigger.com...
> > You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> > achieve good glycohemaglobins.
>
> Bi,
> (Since you feel free to shorten my name, I will return the
favor)
>
> I feel you have missed the point that Mr. Dumas was making.
Most blood
> tests have a normal range. When results are out of normal
range, this
> indicates a concern. Beavis has been saying his numbers are
lower than
> normal, in other words, he is outside of normal range.
I see your reading skills haven't improved Mar. Beav has NEVER
said he's outside the normal range, he's said he's at the lower
end of the non diabetic (normal) range.
Being lower than
> normal has its problems, just as being highter than normal
does.
>
> Beavis seems unwilling to admit that there are potential
problems with being
> lower than normal.
Probably because he isn't?
He even goes as far telling Mr. Dumas that his
> normal-range A1c is too high.
Mmmm I did? Please re-post the message where I said that, and
I'll apologise ot him.
While whatever Beavis does to himself is his
> own business, bear in mind that we would all be yelling
malpractice to a
> doctor who pushed for lower-than-normal results.
As indeed we would, but would we push if the same doctor advice
us to run IN the normal range?
>
> I think you should look at what is being said instead of merely
choosing
> sides based upon who you have shared a joke or two with.
I think you should do something very similar.
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >
> > You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I
accept you
> > because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's
*mouth* that
> > was open.
> >
> > Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
>
> Hi Nico,
>
> I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it
isolated to minimize
> the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I
can do that
> as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused.
So Beav
> hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is
quite simple.
>
> Sorry to upset everyone, but I've been quite surgical about
this,
You're like a dog with a bone Jim. It's not ME who keeps starting
new inflammatory threads after all.
Beav
Beavis
"Nico Kadel-Garcia" <nka...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:Q9b_7.2985$IP....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
I think that's a wonderful idea Nico, but I'm so hypoglycemic, I
probably won't remember where it is:)
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
Clearly!
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Martin Boulger wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the
Hba1c bit "ref <
> > 7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually
specify a lower
> > point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of
my Hba1cs was
> > just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just
under 5. Don't
> > they call it the "under 5% club"?
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> You make a good point. My argument is based on the low normal
HbA1c value.
> In the DCCT, as an example, the normal range was based on a
mean of 5.1% and
> standard deviation of 0.5%. So the normal range was the mean
plus or minus
> two standard deviations that gives 4.1% to 6.1%. If I were
keeping my BG low
> and having an HbA1c of 4.2% (0.1% above the low end as Beav
seems to have),
Well you certainly seem to have a thing about me Jim, it's just a
pity that "thing" doesn't extent to your memory of things I said
or your ability to read (which shouldn't surprise me really). My
last 3 A1c, were ALL in the 5's. 5.1, 5.2 or 5.3. Where does 4.
anything come into this?
> I'd be out cold on the floor 24 hours a day and nearly brain
dead. But their
> does also seem to be an up-regulation of glycogen stores in
astrocytes in the
> brain that fuel neurons under hypoglycemic conditions. So in
theory, with
> long-term hypoglycemia, the brain stores a small amount of
extra glucose in
> astrocytes that surround neurons. So the brain "learns" how to
operate
> better (but not normally) when chronically hypoglycemic.
My brain can still work out the difference between "thier" and
"there". Maybe running bg's in the 400 ISN'T such a good idea
after all eh?
>
> In any case, since we seem to be using different assay methods
between the UK
> and the US, it's critical for us to know the low end of the
normal range in
> the lab. If Beav can prove the low end of the normal range for
his lab is
> 4.1%, (as in the old Bio-Rad manual HPLC assay method of the
DCCT), then I'd
> have to concede to Beav. He would have a large margin for
error and would
> probably not be flirting with hypoglycemia.
If I'm flirting with it, I've not causght it yet and it only took
10 minutes of my flirting to catch my wife of 26 years. I'm an
EXCELLENT flirter.
Now why son't you just forget I exist and get on with dispensing
your advice?
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)
>
> You're welcome,
And you're self centred enough to think Marilyn was responding to
you, when it's blatantly obvious she wasn't.
>
> Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you
should know that I
> appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.
You're still off base, but your creeping is getting VERY slimy.
"Hi Mar, Hi Nico, Hi Dereck, Hi Paul, it's sickening.
>
> I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!
Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C39831B...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com...
> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
> >
> > I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
>
> Dear Beav,
>
> I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he
can help,
He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's shown
that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is meaningless
and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start listening
to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in the
process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root of
it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.
I suggest you do the same. But why wait?
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Mack wrote:
> >
> > if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have
the beiw of
> > him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you
condemn
> > in others?
>
> Hi Dereck,
>
> It's nice to see you're getting with the program, Derek. I
welcome your
> perspectives.
>
> IMO, I'm just fighting fire with fire.
No no Jim. You STARTED the fire and when it started to die out,
you started ANOTHER and another. You're obviously a very sad and
lonely hypergycemic man craving attention even to the point where
your self inflicted aggravation shoves your sugars into the
stratosphere, so I'll just let you get on with it.
I'm done with you.
Beav
Jim Dumas
>
> Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.
Hi yet again Beav,
Put a cover over the piano, you'll be too upset to play it for awhile.
I have a whole series of events planned for you. Enjoy the ride,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)
Jim Dumas
>
> He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's shown
> that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is meaningless
> and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start listening
> to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in the
> process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root of
> it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.
>
> I suggest you do the same. But why wait?
Hi Beav,
I thought that would break the deadlock. My goal is simply to use all tools
available to hammer out some sort of agreement with you. If this requires
increasing the chaos in mhd for a short period, then that's what it takes.
Since I know how to coexist with Groves, it will be a cake walk for me. But
for you, it will be a new level of turmoil to disrupt your life.
It should be quite clear that the sound board in your piano will soon crack,
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.
>
> Hi yet again Beav,
>
> Put a cover over the piano, you'll be too upset to play it for
awhile.
You have a very inflated opinion of your powers Jimster.
>
> I have a whole series of events planned for you. Enjoy the
ride,
I can barely keep still in anticipation.
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's
shown
> > that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is
meaningless
> > and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start
listening
> > to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in
the
> > process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root
of
> > it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.
> >
> > I suggest you do the same. But why wait?
>
> Hi Beav,
>
> I thought that would break the deadlock.
I'm sure you did, and considering you didn't even write the note
I responded too, that must make me as spooky as you. But only
almost.
My goal is simply to use all tools
> available to hammer out some sort of agreement with you.
Better get in touch with Norm Abrams then. You've not got enough.
If this requires
> increasing the chaos in mhd for a short period, then that's
what it takes.
What?? D'you think anyone but you gives a flying cack about you,
me, or this thread?
> Since I know how to coexist with Groves, it will be a cake walk
for me. But
> for you, it will be a new level of turmoil to disrupt your
life.
Hahaha. So you really DO know less than f**k all. I don't get
upset Jim, I get amused. Sometimes even VERY amused, but you're
not in that league. That takes someone like watchman the magnet.
>
> It should be quite clear that the sound board in your piano
will soon crack,
Not even a good analogy. Didn't even raise a grin, let alone a
smile. Go and do something about your hyper state and try again.
Eat a doughnut or something. Have coke. Read a book. (Ooops,
sorry!)
Jim Dumas
>
> I'm done with you.
Dear Beav,
Noted.
I'm amending the truce again to include Dave Groves.
Is that OK with you?
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)
Jim Dumas
I have about 50 names I'd like to add to the truce we're wotking on.
Can you remember that number of names? Should I write this up formally?
Jim Dumas
>
> Jim,
>
> *I* find when my BG's are much over 300 my judgement if often impaired
> and I am far to aggressive. I try never to post when in that
> condition.
>
Hi Gary,
That's an interesting observation. I've never noticed excessive aggression
when hyperglycemic. I grew up mostly in the south and am usually laid-back
unless provoked (my laid-back nature always upset my NY-LI exwife, don't know
why I didn't see it earlier before marriage). In Beav's case, we got off on
the wrong foot and that just carries over into every post. If we can't meet
half-way on some agreement, then we will continue to spiral into an abyss.
But I can live with that. The beauty of this medium is the distance between
us is usually too large to get excited.
But your observation is welcome and I'll watch it closer,
Jim Dumas
>
> Are you still the Vice-President in charge of PR for the Diabetics
> International Foundation? You know, Dave's gig?
Hi Gary,
It's just another political alliance that happen everyday in life. I realize
you have a problem with Groves. But that's your problem and you should mend
the fence. You and I both know this is an open newsgroup. He could show up
anytime he wants and there is nothing either one of us can do about it. I
believe he has the right to be here just like we do. If this gives you
heartburn, sorry.
And yes, I still belong to DIF. Just politics. We all have a vision,
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Dear Beav,
>
> I have about 50 names I'd like to add to the truce we're
wotking on.
Very good.
>
> Can you remember that number of names?
Why would I want to?
Should I write this up formally?
Do what you feel is necessary, it matters not to me.
Dave and Judy
Jim Dumas wrote:
> Dear Beav,
>
> I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he can help,
Allllll right! Maybe we can get into some realllly interesting
conversations. Let me see, now where did I leave my legal dictionary?
Jim, dear, many of us on here have already had a ride on this road. Some
of us came out of it without a scratch, and others of us, well, I seem to
recall an accident or two.
Been there, done that.
Judy
Type 1, 25+ years
Dave and Judy
Jim Dumas wrote:
> Dear Beav,
>
> I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he can help,
Hey, Mike! Gary is here, Judy is here, Beav is here, Bill is here, and
....; Beanie isn't and Robin isn't, and ..... Come on, guys,
PARTY TIME!
Jim Dumas
Jim Dumas
Hi Judy,
I thought this would get quite a bit of attention.
Thanks you for your vote, I have yet to light the fuse,
Dave and Judy
Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
> He is in denial about his hg unawareness and sadly has support from others.
> Some seem to feel that it is perfectly normal to not feel any symptoms until
> the 30s (but only if you are on beef). I've got better things to do than
> fight with these yahoos again.
Hi Marilyn.
Ya know, respect the fact that Beav feels his lows in time to treat. That's it,
that's all. Nothing more.
I also seldom feel the lows til I am pretty low. But sometimes at 72. Mostly
in the 30s or 20s. I am still coherent and I can still walk to the kitchen,
test, and get something to treat it. The only time I was real wobbly, my meter
said Low, and it has given me a 21, so who knows the real number. But I was
wobbly, and I still made it to the kitchen to get something to treat.
Some seem to think that YMMV but only when it is something YOU feel. YMMV is
just that. Some of us feel lows at different levels. I can recall when my lows
were detectable by numb lips. Not any more. Or when I had a hot flash. Not
any more. What should I do, try to get the numb lip symptom back? Nah. I will
accept that my symptoms and threshhold have changed, but I am not HGU. And, for
the life of me, I can't figure out why some of us need to 'make' some others of
us see that we are wrong. YMMV
For awhile I thought I may be flirting with disaster. So I ran my numbers high
for a while. I felt like poop. And my lows were detectable at about 50. But
not with different symptoms and it still took the same treatment to bring me up.
I really did not get any benefit from the higher numbers. I got a negative, I
felt like poop. I feel much better if my BG is in the 70s and my HbA1c is low
normal. So I will go with the lows symptoms occurring in the 20s and 30s.
For gosh sakes, I know how I feel. And, apparently, Beav knows how he feels.
And, last I checked, we have free choice to make our own decisions. If someone
feels badly daily when carrying numbers in the 2 and 3 hundreds, then I am gonna
post and tell them how I feel in the 70s. My choice, my option, just informing
them of their choice.
Testing is the issue. You must test, no matter when you feel symptoms.
I still hold tightly to the premise that Groves probably felt his lows but
didn't recognize the symptoms. Because maybe the symptoms changed over the
years. And maybe he did not change his recognition of that change.
As long as we can identify and treat our lows before we pass out and need
assistance or kill someone, well, isn't that what is the determining factor in
this whole situation?
Judy
Type 1, 25+ years
(And not using Beef)
Jim Dumas
Dear Judy,
Your vote has already been registered. Thanks,
The Caped Crusader
The Caped Crusader knows all, sees all, smells all, and will leap from
lurk mode quicker than you can say, "Nice tights!" if needed.
Fear not.
The Caped Crusader
Nico Kadel-Garcia
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C3A294C...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com...
>
> I have about 50 names I'd like to add to the truce we're wotking on.
>
> Can you remember that number of names? Should I write this up formally?
How about an RFD? We could put it in the charter!
Nico Kadel-Garcia
"Beavis" <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
news:1dh_7.6049$wd1.8...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....
>
> I think that's a wonderful idea Nico, but I'm so hypoglycemic, I
> probably won't remember where it is:)
>
> Beav
If you're running Windows, I bet I can do it for ya! Especially if *my*
blood sugar it makes me randomly fussy and aggressive.
Wait, I'm always somewhat like that: maybe that's why the ever-popular
Rachel is better at noticing hypos for me....
Jim Dumas
Hey Nico,
It's 100 now!
Jim Dumas
>
> In article <3C3A3E93...@fuse.net>, Dave and Judy
> <dubl...@fuse.net> wrote:
> >
> > Been there, done that.
>
> And all I got was a lousy killfile!
>
> --
> Alice F
> posting from a new account
Dear Alice,
You have incorrectly registered your vote as the chads have not been removed.
See instructions per Judy's post. Thank you,
Marilyn "McView"
>
> I see your reading skills haven't improved Mar. Beav has NEVER
> said he's outside the normal range, he's said he's at the lower
> end of the non diabetic (normal) range.
I stand corrected. I see that you have been saying this for years. Mea
culpa.
--
Marilyn
Marilyn "McView"
Dave and Judy <dubl...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C3A4322...@fuse.net...
>
>
> Hi Marilyn.
>
> Ya know, respect the fact that Beav feels his lows in time to treat.
That's it,
> that's all. Nothing more.
Judy,
In all due respect, not being able to recognize a hypo until the bG is at
dangerously low levels is called hypoglycemic unawareness. As you know, you
can live with it, to some it may even be the best way they can keep
glycation to a minimum. But, it's still called hypoglycemic unawareness.
It is wonderful when people find a way to live with it.
Having bGs constantly over 200 is called diabetic. It's a name we attach to
the situation involving the blood sugar..
Denying a diagnosis is called denial. Sometimes denial is a way of learning
to live with something that is so awful we cannot bear to live with.
Sometimes it is just not willing to admit to something. For whatever reason
it is there, it is still denial.
I don't condone Jim's treatment of Beavis, nor do I appreciate Beavis
thinking that I am not entitled to an opinion because I have had
complications. I find it amazing that Derek thought Jim was a pal of mine
because I agreed with one of his assessments. I am forever curious why Paul
has it in for me.
But, despite all this, my comments about Beavis' denial about his hg
unawareness have nothing to do with respect. I was merely calling a spade a
spade.
--
Marilyn
Beavis
"Marilyn "McView"" <mcv...@home.com> wrote in message
news:V5u_7.78707$va.38...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com...
I'm glad that's sorted out.
Beav
Beavis
"Nico Kadel-Garcia" <nka...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:OOr_7.165$0a7...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Beavis" <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
> news:1dh_7.6049$wd1.8...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
> > > Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....
> >
> > I think that's a wonderful idea Nico, but I'm so
hypoglycemic, I
> > probably won't remember where it is:)
> >
> > Beav
>
> If you're running Windows, I bet I can do it for ya! Especially
if *my*
> blood sugar it makes me randomly fussy and aggressive.
Jims aggression is an obvious sign of being hyper. I would've
thought he knew that by now.
>
> Wait, I'm always somewhat like that: maybe that's why the
ever-popular
> Rachel is better at noticing hypos for me....
I mentioned Jim to my wife yesterday and that he's got the idea
that I'm constantly hypo. Her comments was quite simple. She just
said "Yeah, I notice you falling over every five minutes" :-)
Beav
Beavis
>
> Dave and Judy <dubl...@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:3C3A4322...@fuse.net...
> >
> >
> > Hi Marilyn.
> >
> > Ya know, respect the fact that Beav feels his lows in time to
treat.
> That's it,
> > that's all. Nothing more.
>
> Judy,
>
> In all due respect, not being able to recognize a hypo until
the bG is at
> dangerously low levels is called hypoglycemic unawareness. As
you know, you
> can live with it, to some it may even be the best way they can
keep
> glycation to a minimum. But, it's still called hypoglycemic
unawareness.
> It is wonderful when people find a way to live with it.
I'd like to know how it's unawareness when you're aware of it. I
can feel an incoming LONG before it hits as I'm sure Judy can.
Also I can relate to how Judy feels when she's higher than
normal, because I feel exactly the same. Some of us can't
tolerate sugars above the high end of normal, but can EASILY
tolerate sugars at the low end. Judy and me seem to be in the
latter category and that's exactly as I'd expect things to be. In
my short time (13th year now) as a diabetic, I've only been over
20 mmol/ml (360) 3 times, and on each occasion I knew why and I
was only "there" for an hour or two. I felt worse then than I did
prior to being dx'd.
I've consistently run A1c's in the non diabetic range and
(forgive me for saying so) I'm proud of that, and as I've no sign
of any problems, I have every RIGHT to feel like I do. Proud and
WELL.
>
> Having bGs constantly over 200 is called diabetic. It's a name
we attach to
> the situation involving the blood sugar..
Having bg's in that range is called poor control. At least it is
according to the diabetic specialists I speak to. Now generally I
don't have much time for "specialists", but in this case, I think
they're right.
>
> Denying a diagnosis is called denial.
And running constantly above 200 is acceptance??? Now you're
REALLY joking.
Sometimes denial is a way of learning
> to live with something that is so awful we cannot bear to live
with.
Victim thinking.
> Sometimes it is just not willing to admit to something. For
whatever reason
> it is there, it is still denial.
And running constantly over 200 is denial in it's classic sense.
As is attempting to eat like a non diabeitc every day.
>
> I don't condone Jim's treatment of Beavis, nor do I appreciate
Beavis
> thinking that I am not entitled to an opinion because I have
had
> complications.
When you're thinking straight Marilyn, I value your opinion, but
when you start spouting about how there's no problems in running
constantly hyper sugar levels, you get a little less credit.
I find it amazing that Derek thought Jim was a pal of mine
> because I agreed with one of his assessments. I am forever
curious why Paul
> has it in for me.
>
> But, despite all this, my comments about Beavis' denial about
his hg
> unawareness have nothing to do with respect. I was merely
calling a spade a
> spade.
Like I say, how can it be unawareness when I'm aware of any
approaching hypo's? I've never needed any help getting out of a
hypo and I've never had an ER run, so who's got the most
awareness, you, Jim or me?
Also, if having hypo's is the root cause of hypo unawareness
(which is something that's been touted here numerous times) why
should I have any unawareness? I don't have many "lows" and I
NEVER have any serious hypo's. We all know that huge CHANGES in
bg make us feel less than 100% so I do what's needed to keep
spikes and drops to a minimum then even a small movement outside
my range is enough for me to KNOW something isn't right. A test
would tell me if I'm high or low if I couldn't work that out for
myself (which I can) so there's no denial going on here, just
common sense and a meter.
Beav
Beavis
What about MM :-)
Beav
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Gary Ennis wrote:
> >
> > Are you still the Vice-President in charge of PR for the
Diabetics
> > International Foundation? You know, Dave's gig?
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> It's just another political alliance that happen everyday in
life.
Oh dear!! Delusions of granduer. What next I wonder!
I realize
> you have a problem with Grove.
Every single right minded diabetic on this planet should have a
problem with Groves. He's his own worst enemy, but thankfully,
most of the diabetics on-line know that and put him where he
belongs. In the kill-file.
But that's your problem and you should mend
> the fence.
10 grand says he doesn't.
You and I both know this is an open newsgroup. He could show
up
> anytime he wants and there is nothing either one of us can do
about it.
He showed up once and ran off like a little child when he failed
in his quest. Typical Groves from all I've discovered.
I
> believe he has the right to be here just like we do. If this
gives you
> heartburn, sorry.
As if it would. Groves would need some clout to be able to cause
ANYONE any "heartburn".
>
> And yes, I still belong to DIF.
We didn't need that confirming Jim.
Just politics. We all have a vision,
And what's yours Jim? To get all diabetics to run sugars as high
as yours, or to accept that you're actually diabetic before it
takes some other part of you away?
Beav
Wes Groleau
Jim Dumas wrote:
> I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of the HbA1c
> scale. If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower than 5-7% from
> your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me. (I'd have to accept
> you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)
A few months ago, some of us pored over
(yes, folks, "pored" is correct, not "poured")
an educational presentation by a doctor for
other doctors. It included some charts showing
that complications rise with A1c above 5.0 and
are nearly unrelated to A1c below that. That tells
me the 5.0 is the ideal. However, I did not see
any mention of the reference range for those charts.
The charts also appeared to show (visually--I did
not do the math) a strong correlation between
fasting BG and two-hour post-prandial BG.
--
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
Wes Groleau
Jim Dumas wrote:
> I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it isolated to minimize
> the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I can do that
> as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused. So Beav
> hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is quite simple.
Forget "Beav's option" for only a moment. Is someone reaching
over your shoulder pressing the send key?
Dave and Judy
Beavis wrote:
> > PARTY TIME!
>
> What about MM :-)
Hey Beav!
The MM, hmmm, could be Michel? As far as I can remember he, she, it was
not around when we were doing the original "Need help for Justin in
Florida" (or something to that effect) thread. He was, however, around
the second time, I think.
The other MM, hmmm, Marilyn?. As far as I can remember, she was not
around during the first go'round, but definitely in follow ups.
But also Randy, Susie, melee, Detroit dispatcher, etc.
Of course, they could both have been around and just viewing, or I might
not be remembering exactly. How long has that been now, Geez, 92?
(Still waiting for that tape!) ;o}
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
It should also be quite clear there is a larger view in progress.
Those who use a killfile will easily get blind-sided. Quite simple.
Just life. Hypoglycemia was just a vehicle to achieve the end.
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)
T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely HG: <1/mo.
Bill Van Antwerp
"Wes Groleau" <wesgr...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3C3B04D2...@spamcop.net...
Wes: I don't believe those charts very much, there must be only a very very
small amount of data at the low end of the scale although I agree that 5% is
pretty low.
Bill
Beavis
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
> Beavis wrote:
> >
> Dear Beav,
>
> It should also be quite clear there is a larger view in
progress.
>
> Those who use a killfile will easily get blind-sided. Quite
simple.
>
> Just life. Hypoglycemia was just a vehicle to achieve the end.
Well that post made even less sense than you normally do. No
other comment.
Beavis
>
>
> Beavis wrote:
>
> > > PARTY TIME!
> >
> > What about MM :-)
>
> Hey Beav!
>
> The MM, hmmm, could be Michel?
As ever:-)
As far as I can remember he, she, it was
> not around when we were doing the original "Need help for
Justin in
> Florida" (or something to that effect) thread. He was,
however, around
> the second time, I think.
I think you're right Judy.
>
> The other MM, hmmm, Marilyn?.
Oh, I'd forgotten her last name began with M. No, I meant Mickey,
not Marilyn.
As far as I can remember, she was not
> around during the first go'round, but definitely in follow ups.
>
> But also Randy, Susie, melee, Detroit dispatcher, etc.
Thems the ones:)
>
> Of course, they could both have been around and just viewing,
or I might
> not be remembering exactly. How long has that been now, Geez,
92?
Probably a bit later than that. I'd guess about 96-97 but I could
be wrong. Justin's probably out and about in his car though, no
matter WHEN the "Help" call from Groves went out.
>
> (Still waiting for that tape!) ;o}
Oh, it WAS you! I'm REALLY sorry Jude, but I not only forgot what
kind of music you like, but I lost your address when I had the
usual computer re-build (lost lots of addresses). Get me your
address and I'll up my offer to a CD :-) Let me know what kind of
stuff too and I'll do a personalised one just for you. I actually
just installed a whole new suite of recording software in my mini
studio, so I'm "hot to trot" so to speak. New guitars to play now
too, so expect the worst:)
Beav
Beavis
> > I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of
the HbA1c
> > scale. If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower
than 5-7% from
> > your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me. (I'd
have to accept
> > you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)
>
> A few months ago, some of us pored over
> (yes, folks, "pored" is correct, not "poured")
> an educational presentation by a doctor for
> other doctors. It included some charts showing
> that complications rise with A1c above 5.0 and
> are nearly unrelated to A1c below that. That tells
> me the 5.0 is the ideal.
This is what I was told too Wes and why I try to keep within
spitting distance of 5. I reckon 5.1-5.3 is pretty close enough
:-)
Beav
Jim Dumas
>
> Well that post made even less sense than you normally do. No
> other comment.
Dear Beav,
No time to explain. Will revisit when the spirit moves. Regards,
Marilyn "McView"
> The other MM, hmmm, Marilyn?. As far as I can remember, she was not
> around during the first go'round, but definitely in follow ups.
I wasn't posting here at the time. I was heavily involved in Compuserve
from 1994-1996 then went over and did the aol thing for a few years. I
found my way here in early 1999. Groves had just left.
>
> But also Randy, Susie, melee, Detroit dispatcher, etc.
>
> Of course, they could both have been around and just viewing, or I might
> not be remembering exactly. How long has that been now, Geez, 92?
Time flies when you are having fun. The first post concerning Justin was in
late 1998.
--
Marilyn
Dave and Judy
Beavis wrote:
> Oh, it WAS you!
Yeah, one and the same. Remember the name of the farm - dublgully
(denoting the 2 most glamorous things on our farm!) where we were
definitely going to have the diabetic woodstock thing. I am still open
to the idea!
I thought you were being awfully laid back there. (Must be that
hypo-state you're in, causes brain mush)
> I'm REALLY sorry Jude, but I not only forgot what
> kind of music you like,
Like I told you back then, pianny and geetars, I love em both, together
they are just FINE! (Remember also that Alice was gonna do something
with your finished product so we could broadcast same at the picnic. I
guess she's still waiting too!) (At least, I think it was Alice.)
> New guitars to play now
> too, so expect the worst:)
Hey, we bought both of our grandboys guitars for last Christmas. And an
electronic keyboard. Still waiting for them to do something other than
listen to pre-recorded things. Oh, and a full size drum set. Had to
build a room onto their resident toyroom to accomodate the drums. Full
insulation in all the walls! Of course, they are only 9 and 7 so they
have a little bit of time to go, but I encourage them CONSTANTLY to get
started.
Now this is sad, but I just ordered the Elvis CD set of love songs from
QVC shopping channel. My Dave has a singing voice (or used to, anyway.
When he used to sing to me) that reminds me of Elvis and he really likes
him. I prefer jazz, Kenny G and Celine seem to occupy my CD player at
all times.
Still love ya,
Dave and Judy
Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
> Time flies when you are having fun. The first post concerning Justin was in
> late 1998.
Wow. Really flies! Must be why I can't believe my age. Someone must have made
a mistake somewhere, because I really don't feel any older than a day over 30!
I was trying to relate it to when we first got internet service and when Dave
started working from home a couple days a week. I misplaced a number of years
somewhere in there.
Thanks, Marilyn.
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
Marilyn has no idea what's going on. I tossed her into the mix as a smoke
screen. But I did want her to know I appreciated our past arguments, as we
nearly always argue.
She has no connection to DIF or our agenda. She is innocent.
I've also reported my probing to Groves and when he wants to appear, I'll
support his arguments/watch his flanks/mediate disputes. He knows about the
proposed truce and the names on the list. I've asked him not to attack
Marilyn as well. But he hates her with a passion. So I'll have to work
alittle harder on that.
I'm a very patient person, will resume watching for Novolog info. Regards,
Big Al
> <<snipped>>
Hey Beav,
Just stopped in for a quick looksee. I saw this enormous thread with
your name. It's good to see that you haven't changed. Bye again.
Big Al
Marilyn "McView"
> I'd like to know how it's unawareness when you're aware of it. I
> can feel an incoming LONG before it hits as I'm sure Judy can.
Beavis,
If you don't like what it is called feel free to call it a different name.
How about Beavis' Syndrome. It doesn't change the fact that you do not have
symptoms until your blood sugar reaches a very low level. I didn't make
this up. But hey, if its not a problem for you then so be it. But let's
call things what they are and quit denying things..
I snipped everything else because you totally missed the point of my post.
It was not that higher is better or that you are bad because your body does
not recognize a low until it is very bad. The point was that you are what
you are.
--
Marilyn
Jim Dumas
>
> Just politics. We all have a vision,
>
> And what's yours Jim? To get all diabetics to run sugars as high
> as yours, or to accept that you're actually diabetic before it
> takes some other part of you away?
Dear Beav,
I've explained several simple concepts to you and you don't seem to
understand them. Groves tells me you are a simpleton and I should not expect
too much from your mental capacity. (Admittedly, you lack abstract thought
capacity. My simple probing has shown me this. So I agree with Groves.)
So sorry, too complex. Regards,
Beavis
>
> Beavis <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
> news:meD_7.8981$wd1.1...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
> > I'd like to know how it's unawareness when you're aware of
it. I
> > can feel an incoming LONG before it hits as I'm sure Judy
can.
>
> Beavis,
>
> If you don't like what it is called feel free to call it a
different name.
> How about Beavis' Syndrome.
How about "Hypo awareness". I like that MUCH better. It describes
what I experience perfectly.
It doesn't change the fact that you do not have
> symptoms until your blood sugar reaches a very low level.
Don't be silly Mar, my blood sugars are normally in the non
diabetic range, so when they try to step OUTSIDE that range, I
feel it. What's odd about that, or even hard to understand? Isn't
this what the vast majority of diabetics experience? Sugars move
out of range and they know about it? Seems pretty normal to me.
I didn't make
> this up.
What you DID make up though, was this idea that I'm unaware of
any incoming hypo's. You couldn't be further from the truth if
you tried.
But hey, if its not a problem for you then so be it. But let's
> call things what they are and quit denying things..
Ok, let's call it what it is, EXCELLENT awareness, coz that's
what it is. It's faultless and it never fails. I can feel a hypo
coming at least half an hour before it hits me hard enough to
make it even necessary to get a drink of milk. Now... wouldn't
YOU like that sort of warning. (And that wasn't a question)
>
> I snipped everything else because you totally missed the point
of my post.
> It was not that higher is better or that you are bad because
your body does
> not recognize a low until it is very bad.
Please take the time to explain how/what I should feel when I'm
either going hypo or I'm ACTUALLY hypo, because I can't work with
terms like "until it is very bad".
BTW, I still get dry lips as my first warning sign. I get them at
around 4.0mmol/ml but I can ignore it if I please (and I usually
do).
The point was that you are what
> you are.
Yep, and you KNOW what that is. An uncomplicated diabetic who
intends staying that way, but before we carry on with this, can
you also explain how me what discussing my awareness has to do
with me telling Jim Dumas that eating like a non diabetic is NOT
a good thing?
Thank you
Beav
Beavis
>
>
> Beavis wrote:
>
> > Oh, it WAS you!
>
> Yeah, one and the same.
So many Judy's and (apparently) so few of my brain cells left:-)
Remember the name of the farm - dublgully
> (denoting the 2 most glamorous things on our farm!) where we
were
> definitely going to have the diabetic woodstock thing. I am
still open
> to the idea!
It would've been good, pity it didn't happen :-(
>
> I thought you were being awfully laid back there. (Must be
that
> hypo-state you're in, causes brain mush)
Yeah:)
>
> > I'm REALLY sorry Jude, but I not only forgot what
> > kind of music you like,
>
> Like I told you back then, pianny and geetars, I love em both,
together
> they are just FINE!
It WAS a long time ago y'know:-)
(Remember also that Alice was gonna do something
> with your finished product so we could broadcast same at the
picnic. I
> guess she's still waiting too!) (At least, I think it was
Alice.)
>
> > New guitars to play now
> > too, so expect the worst:)
>
> Hey, we bought both of our grandboys guitars for last
Christmas. And an
> electronic keyboard. Still waiting for them to do something
other than
> listen to pre-recorded things.
Did they WANT those things? If they didn't, they'll make great
dust gatherers.
Oh, and a full size drum set.
I take it you don't live with them then (VBG)
Had to
> build a room onto their resident toyroom to accomodate the
drums. Full
> insulation in all the walls! Of course, they are only 9 and 7
so they
> have a little bit of time to go, but I encourage them
CONSTANTLY to get
> started.
Is that encouragement or nagging (I know about wimmin:-)))
>
> Now this is sad, but I just ordered the Elvis CD set of love
songs from
> QVC shopping channel.
Yep, that's sad (Hahahahaha)
My Dave has a singing voice (or used to, anyway.
> When he used to sing to me) that reminds me of Elvis and he
really likes
> him. I prefer jazz, Kenny G and Celine seem to occupy my CD
player at
> all times.
I'm still a ragtimer on the piano so I'll send you a rendition of
a Joplin tune or two, and I'm a bit of a contemporary on the
guitar. I'll send you my version of Stings "Fields of gold". I
quite like that one.
>
> Still love ya
As well you should:-)
E-mail me your snail addy for t' postman.
Beav
Beavis
"Alice Faber" <afa...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:080120022217383944%afa...@panix.com...
> In article <3C3BAD88...@fuse.net>, Dave and Judy
> <dubl...@fuse.net> wrote:
>
> > Beavis wrote:
> >
> > > Oh, it WAS you!
> >
> > Yeah, one and the same. Remember the name of the farm -
dublgully
> > (denoting the 2 most glamorous things on our farm!) where we
were
> > definitely going to have the diabetic woodstock thing. I am
still open
> > to the idea!
> >
> > I thought you were being awfully laid back there. (Must be
that
> > hypo-state you're in, causes brain mush)
> >
> > > I'm REALLY sorry Jude, but I not only forgot what
> > > kind of music you like,
> >
> > Like I told you back then, pianny and geetars, I love em
both, together
> > they are just FINE! (Remember also that Alice was gonna do
something
> > with your finished product so we could broadcast same at the
picnic. I
> > guess she's still waiting too!) (At least, I think it was
Alice.)
> >
allows
> him to do it all digital. A lot of stuff that was *really*
expensive in
> our lab a few years back is now standard on low-end computers
these
> days.
Yep, that's me now Alice. Digital Beav:-) A whole new learning
curve, but a lot more control over the production. I can't decide
whether I like it better or not, but it speeds things up a tad.
Now I can .wav file or Mp3 too!
Beav
Beavis
"Big Al" <db-...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3C3BBF79...@bigfoot.com...
> Beavis wrote:
> > <<snipped>>
>
> Hey Beav,
>
> Just stopped in for a quick looksee. I saw this enormous
thread with
> your name. It's good to see that you haven't changed.
You can thank Jim for this thread Al. He wasn't getting any joy
on the other so he started thins one. Must be hard living with
such desperation:-)
Bye again.
Aye.
Beav
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
Keep thinking. It's good for your health. Regards,
Jim Dumas
You're taking too much time to think about this. So time's up.
I've decided to amend the truce to add Robin Harrison's name.
Is that OK with you? Regards,
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
I'm amending the truce to include Bruce Beale's name on the list.
I trust that's OK with you as well. Regards,
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Gary,
Keep watching, we'll get there together. Regards,
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
Gary Ennis made a good point. I forgot Mary Hunt.
I'm amdending the truce to include Mary Hunt as well.
I trust you can live with that. Regards,
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
If you haven't noticed, I don't really need any of these people to
steamroller right over you. You're not responding fast enough.
I'll let you sleep on this, will resume tomorrow. Regards,
Ozgirl
"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote
Dear Jim,
If you haven't noticed, You are making a complete ass of yourself and
lost all credibility.
Childish games like this are best kept to email cause only you are
interested, the rest of us are not.
Marilyn "McView"
> BTW, I still get dry lips as my first warning sign. I get them at
> around 4.0mmol/ml but I can ignore it if I please (and I usually
> do).
Well slap my face and call me silly, this sure isn't what you have posted in
the past. I just can't keep up with your ever changing stories. These are
not hg unawareness numbers so I guess I will just shut up.
--
Marilyn
Jim Dumas
>
> On Sun, 6 Jan 3902 19:36:14, Jim Dumas
> <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry to upset everyone, but I've been quite surgical about this,
> >
>
> It would appear, you still have much to learn.
>
> "Sad"
Dear Gary,
It would appear you have much to learn. Silence is golden. Regards,
Jim Dumas
>
Dear Beav,
I will come to the point since everybody seems interested.
The whole point of this exercise was not political, (none of these people
have appeared), or shilling motivated. It was simply to let you know I do
not want to interact with you. Moreover, if you post to me, I'll eat you for
lunch and won't bother to dose.
I hope we have an understanding. I'm the dog and you are the bone,
Jim Dumas
Thank you Ozgirl,
You are right, I apologize.
willbill
> Beavis <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote
>> BTW, I still get dry lips as my first warning sign. I get them at
>> around 4.0mmol/ml but I can ignore it if I please (and I usually
>> do).
> Well slap my face and call me silly, this sure isn't what you have posted in
> the past. I just can't keep up with your ever changing stories. These are
> not hg unawareness numbers so I guess I will just shut up.
to: ms mar,
promises, promises...
bill