Activation

[dave milbut]

and you get to pay 20 dollars more (169) for the upgrade for the privilege.

[Bob Levine]

http://www.adobe.com/activation/main.html

Bob

[ID. Awe]

Gee, how long will it take them to crack that.

I'll let you know, oh wait, sorry, it was yesterday!

[Carl Bickers]

Will there be any provision to allow me to move (not copy) Photoshop from my present computer to a new one when I replace it?

[Robmeister]

Macromedia just added activation to their MX 2004 line of products. It is
fairly flexible and allows for product "deactivation" so you can install it
on a new computer. It also allows you to activate it on your desktop and
also on a laptop, with the caveat that you can only run one copy of the
software at the same time. Hopefully Adobe does the same thing.
--
Rob

[Carl Bickers]

But only for the Windows version. The Mac version won't require activation (for now).

[Ian Lyons]

Will there be any provision to allow me to move (not copy) Photoshop from
my present computer to a new one when I replace it?

Yes! Why not try reading the info they provide on Activation?

Your license will allow TWO (2) copies to be installed and activated (but not used) at the same time. So far as replacing hardware is concerned - yes that to is covered as is hard drive replacement. For the most part activation is easy and totally painless. It is also anonymous!

[Robert Oliver]

As for the future of product activation on other Adobe products:

<http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/pdfs/creativesuite_faq.pdf>

Indicates that it will be employed in the future on "applicable products."

[ID. Awe]

(|) THH!

[Chris High]

...as if anyone actually wants to read all the fine print - So this means I can still have a copy at work and at home then? Good.

[Ian Lyons]

So this means I can still have a copy at work and at home then?

YES!

[r_harvey]

But people like YrbkMgr (Tony) will be severely restricted. In addition, it doesn't support Windows98.

There is no activation in the Mac version. It looks like aging hardware, increased software requirements, and expensive upgrades, will force some to reconsider Macintosh.

[Bob Levine]

You must be kidding.

For starters the activation scheme will be introduced to the Mac sooner
or later. And any half decent Win98/ME box can be reformatted and
upgraded to WinXP or Win 2K for a a lot less than buying a new Mac.

Bob

[r_harvey]

Anything faster than a PIII 500 should be just fine as long as it's got
plenty or RAM.

Most old boxes don't support a lot of RAM, or current hard drives, or current video cards, or anything else new you'd want to add.

As for the XP activation, it's a non event.

I should've added, of course, that some of us don't like the evil empire. After seventeen years, I've about had it.

[Bob Levine]

Adobe has already said it would happen. And a lot the later Win 98 boxes
are quite capable of running XP. Anything faster than a PIII 500 should
be just fine as long as it's got plenty or RAM. The difference in
stability is quite noticable.

As for the XP activation, it's a non event.

Bob

[r_harvey]

activation scheme will be introduced to the Mac sooner or later.

Adobe hasn't added it in other markets. Mac is <35% of Adobe's customer base, and there are fewer 1337 d00dz on the Mac. PS Windows is one of the most pirated applications.

And any half decent Win98/ME box can be reformatted and upgraded to WinXP
or Win 2K for a a lot less than buying a new Mac.

Windows 98 boxes haven't shipped in years. These are old computers. It's not worth upgrading most of them. It'll be cheaper to buy new, in the long run.

Some people don't want to submit to WindowsXP activation, and of course MS is trying to get people to quit using Win2K.

[r_harvey]

That's all I was saying.

[Bob Levine]

Well then nothing I say will change your mind. I suggest you get a Mac.

Bob

[Hall]

We have been told many times of the 'tax' we have paid because of piracy, in the form of higher prices. Now we have activation *and* higher prices. If the prices of future versions don't come down, should we assume the 'Piracy makes for higher prices' was a lie? Adobe loses money far more often at the hands of people and pirates abusing Volume Licensing than the person who buys a retail box. Why are individual users the ones they choose to lean on?

Until I am assured that re-activation is as painless as activation, I am disinterested in the product. I am tired of being suspiciously eyed every time I replace my hard drive. I have no wish to be policed after paying hundreds of dollars for software, first by Microsoft, and now by Adobe. I am actively looking for alternatives to 'Corporate-ware', and perhaps I will find it before I am forced to upgrade to XP and PhotoShop CS.

Regardless of my eventual decision, the Adobe 'brand' has been harmed, and I am far more receptive to alternatives today than I was yesterday. Business 101, anyone?

[johnson]

But if just you and your Aunt Minnie want to share a license, I think they're willing to let it go...for now...

[Levine]

I don't think they'll try to keep you from using it simultaneously. Way
too difficult to manage. IMO, they'll allow two activations and trust
you not to use them both at the same time.

Bob

[Courtejoie]

I'm sure that they will allow telephonic activation...

[Courtejoie]

Auguste, if you think to ditch Photoshop for a program with MX in the name, I think that they do also have activation...

[milbut]

All together now. Everybody repeat after me: Baaaaaaaaaaa.

[Hall]

P.S.

Ian Lyons said "Your license will allow TWO (2) copies to be installed and activated (but not used) at the same time."

How can you police the use of simultaneous use without requiring an internet connection? How will they know if both copies are running? Will we now be required to have an internet connection to use Photoshop? Surely not. That would be the death-knell for any future Adobe purchase from me.

[r_ha...@adobeforums.com]

Auguste, if you think to ditch Photoshop for a program with MX in the
name, I think that they do also have activation...

There's a thread about M*cr*m*d** MX 2004 product activation in the Photoshop Lounge.

[Hall]

Pierre Courtejoie said:

"I'm sure that they will allow telephonic activation... "

Yes, if you look at the presented demo, they do. That wasn't my question. The above post states that simultaneous *use* will be restricted. If this is enforced by activation, will we have to handshake with Adobe via the internet when we use Photoshop. I can see no other way that a second copy will be prevented from being used.

[Lyons]

Augste,

How can you police the use of simultaneous use without requiring an internet
connection?

They don't watch diddly - you don't need an internet connection

How will they know if both copies are running?

They don't! I told you what the license says - YOU either honor it or don't. If you don't then YOU and folk like you are to blame for bringing activation down on those who do.

> Will we now be required to have an internet connection to use Photoshop?

No!

> Surely not. That would be the death-knell for any future Adobe purchase from me.

Then why did you ask those question?

If you don't like the concept of activation they skip CS and find an alternative.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

If you install it on more than two machines, you need more than two activation events - it's as simple as that. They don't have to monitor it. All machines need a machine hash to get activated. After your desktop and your laptop, then you have to explain to someone why you need another.

Like... let's say you own photoshop at home. You decide to put it on the company laptop so you can do some work while out of town. Then you get fired (or quit), and get a new job. Then you want to install it on another laptop - you'll need some kind of approval. Someone will have to determine if you're lying or not.

I'm not saying I agree nor disagree, rather, the way activation works, as I understand it, is the machine hash is what is used to issue an activation code. After two, you may be asked to call Adobe for permission since you may not be issued that "third" activation code.

[Levine]

Hall wrote:

> Since most people 'don't like the concept of activation'

According to whom? Doesn't bother me one bit. I'll be upgrading as soon
as I figure out which retailer has the best deal. Amazon usually has
rebates for big upgrades like this.

Bob

[Hall]

Ian Lyons said:

"If you don't like the concept of activation they skip CS and find an alternative."

That sounds like a good plan. Photoshop 7 is a mature app, and its quality doesn't beg the wary eye of product activation by upgrading. In the past, upgrades have been a reflex action for me. This time, and probably henceforth, I opt not to rush into an upgrade until I absolutely have to. Until then, I will also be actively looking for 'alternatives'.

Thanks again to Ian Lyons for the sound advice. Since most people 'don't like the concept of activation', most should logically consider voting with their dollars, or the withholding thereof.

[MarcPa...@adobeforums.com]

In article <2ccd9...@webx.la2eafNXanI>, < Aug...@adobeforums.com>
wrote:

Activation as implemented in Windows Photoshop CS allows installation
on no more than two separate computers. That's all it does. It has no
enforcements or tracking of when those two installed versions are used.
The EULA that has covered Photoshop for many years and many versions
has always allowed this form of use. Activation simply enforces that
allowance.

--marc

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

No, I would simply prefer not to have to have my work strategy "okay'd" by Adobe.

[johnson]

Would you folks rather that Adobe require a hardware dongle? They could, if they liked, do just that. (Come to think of it, it might be a better idea...)

[Robicheaux]

Activation ticks me off. This is the very reason I left Quicken’s Turbo Tax for TaxCut. Quicken had a “huge” revolt because of their activation policy and I am going to guess there are going to be a LOT of unhappy Photoshop users who may opt for less expensive and about as good photo manipulation software for digital images. This is just a way of squeezing money from their users.

As a photographer I have habitually used a home computer and a laptop that I take on the road with me. Adobe’s web site states the following:

Does activation change the licensing terms?
Q: Does product activation represent a change in licensing terms?
A: No. Activation is an interactive extension of existing licensing terms and as such represents the spirit of Adobe's Product License Agreement.
Q: What about customers who have more than one computer at home? Will Adobe be offering a "family license"?
A: Adobe is committed to offering the most flexible user options. Product activation opens the door for Adobe to offer more tailored terms to our customers, and we will be evaluating all possibilities going forward.

Where does the authorized 2 computers come from and how in the world can one not run two simultaneously? More importantly, a lot of people go through a hardware change before a new product release. How will an upgrade work along with using two computers? Besides, I love the line: it “represents the spirit of Adobe’s Product License Agreement.” OR how about “and we will be evaluating all possibilities going forward” That means they are going to figure out another way to soak it to us.

[lemoore]

Does it deactivate on deinstall?

...

I just don't see any of this as being a problem. I purchased Flash 5 over the web on Macromedia's site and got the electronic download version of it. 2 YEARs later I had lost the machine it was installed on, the download period had exprired, I lost the login name needed to download it, lost the serial number ... a quick call to Macromedia support got me all set up with a new download and install. This was an extreme case.

My guess is Adobe will be the same, meaning, if you need to install it a 3rd or 4th time a quick call will get you up and running. But it will require a call, and you're for sure not going to be able to activate 10 times on day one.

They're taking steps to reduce piracy but people undoubtly WILL have situations like this, and Adobe will have acceptable, fast solutions for them. I feel pretty confindent in that.

Disclaimer: this is all just my best guess at what Adobe will do; I have no insider (or outsider!) knowledge.

~Hanford

[Bissinger]

Earl wrote: Where does the authorized 2 computers come from and how in the world can one not run two simultaneously?

Because you agreed to the license agreement when you installed PS

I run PS at my home the other computer is in a Mini Storage from where I pick it up when I go to work doing special events. This machine has nothing else but PS, Power Point and Foto Station 4.5 to run slide shows.
It runs on Win 2000 pro never ever a hickup in 2 years working almost every day with temperatures from 20 to 100F.

They never can work at the same time. Others may work in their offices and at home.

[Robicheaux]

First of all, where does it say that one can install Photoshop CS on only 2 computers? Where specifically?

Secondly, I want to know how Activation works on a RAID system? What happens if Photoshop is restored to a hard drive other than its original install?

Notice that Adobe starts activation with Photoshop, there product leader, to see how the user base reacts....its up to you.

[Robicheaux]

First of all, where does it say that Photoshop CS is allowed to be installed on 2 computers? Where specifically?

Secondly, how does activiation work on a RAID system? What happens if Photoshop CS has to be restored on a hard drive other than its original install?

Notice how Adobe started activation with its flag ship product, to see how the user base will react....It's up to you....

[Levine]

Adobe has been using activation on Photoshop for quite some time already
as a test in the Austrailian market. My guess is that it went well or
they wouldn't be doing it all over.

Bob

[Visser]

First of all, where does it say that Photoshop CS is allowed to be installed
on 2 computers? Where specifically?

Probably in the EULA, just like version 7. If you have a copy of version 7, have a look in the Legal sub-folder for a text version.

My reading of Adobe's information page indicates that basic hardware changes like a hard drive are acceptable.

The Adobe activation process supports installation on a primary and secondary
PC as well as most system upgrades (e.g. operating system, motherboard,
memory or processor). In most cases, customers can change computing environments
without needing to contact Adobe Customer Support or needing to re-activate
any installed Adobe software.

Taken from <http://www.adobe.com.au/activation/main.html>

[McCoy]

Earl,

From the PS 7.0 EULA:

2.4. Portable Computer Use. The primary user of the Computer on which
the Software is installed may also make a second copy for his or her exclusive
use on a portable Computer provided the Software on the portable Computer
is not being used at the same time the Software on the primary computer
is being used.

AS for RAID, I doubt that will matter is Adobe Activation is anything like Windows XP. As long as the hardware in andof itself doesn't change significantly, Windows XP activation doesn't care which drive you install the OS to as long as it is a bootable partition. If you change the drives in your RAID system enough times it is possible, though not guaranteed, that the activation process will kick in and require you to either reactivate via the internet or contact Adobe Support whereby you will give then an explanation of the situation and I'll bet dollars to donuts that you will have PS up and running in no time.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

And Peg, it is situations just like yours that make activation risky. I have similar circumstances.

Only time will tell - one of two things will happen; Adobe will have to be more lax on "approvals" for issuing more activations, or you'll have to face that fact that once a computer you own "meets it's maker" you have to buy a new license.

Most of the discussions are academic. Microsoft, I don't trust. Adobe I do; but I still don't like the idea of having someone else approve my work flow.

[peg...@adobeforums.com]

There is a link to ask any questions about activation. Trouble is after I filled out the form, the next page was a dead end Twice.
In case anyone has answers...

Do I understand, then, that if I install Photoshop to my desktop and laptop, when I buy a new desktop (late this year or early next year) I am at the mercy of whoever answers the phone as to whether I still get to use the program?

I formatted and re-installed my programs several times this year. Either because the registry was so clogged it slowed everything down intolerably, or because my system got messed up by a bad installation -- last time it was Drive Image -- and I couldn't figure out how to fix it. (W2K)

How does activation work when you have to do complete re-installs?

It isn't activation I mind, or even having to call the company. But if I can't use my legitimate copy of Photoshop, I can't afford to buy another just because of activation limitations.

Can anyone reassure me?

[Stuart...@adobeforums.com]

Look people, this is not the Gestapo. Even with Microsoft, all it takes is a simple phone call. If your story seems remotely legit then you're on your way. I once exceeded the activation limit for Office 2000 (I was using the academic version which was, along with the AU version, being used to test activation). I called the number provided with the warning dialog, and in five minutes I was up and running with no problems. They removed the activation on a laptop that I no longer used and I was able to install Office 2000 on a second desktop system with no problems. If Microsoft was that easy then Adobe will be twice as easy (if that's even possible).

Playing chicken little won't solve anything. We have a saying in Boston, you could be hit by a big yellow bus tomorrow and there's not a thing you can do about it. Activation is here to stay. You either work with it or you purchase another product, it's that simple. If there were any major problems with the activation beta test in AU (AU seems to get to be the guinea pg for all this stuff don't they?) then I'm sure Adobe would not be putting it in their flagship application, instead reserving it for a secondary app like Acrobat. If you have a legitimate gripe after using activation then by all means, post it here. If you're just speculating and spouting wild hypotheticals that have as much likelihood of coming to pass as me winning the lottery than keep them to your selves.

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>Does it deactivate on deinstall?<

You will have the option to uninstall and either leave the activation
coding in place on your system (i.e. when you re-install, you will not
have to activate again) or you can choose to uninstall the activation
codes at the same time (eg if you are selling your computer to a third
party and don't wish the 3rd party to install a pirated copy that uses
your activation).
--

Carol
(Posted from the UK)

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>This is just a way of squeezing money from their users.<

Huh??? Presumeably you would have paid for your update anyway - so in
what way is it going to 'squeeze' more money out of you.

OTOH, if you were planning on using a pirated version and simply not
paying for it, then this is why Adobe is being forced to go down this route.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

Stuart,

So... your point is?

Complaining about activation is like complaining about taxes - only where taxes are concerned, we all agree, you can complain.

There's nothing anyone can do about it so keep your mouth shut and follow the rest of us.

Activation is here to stay, so get used to it (I wonder why Intuit pulled it then?)

instead reserving it for a secondary app like Acrobat

You may be surprised to learn that Acrobat accounts for more revenue and profitability than Photoshop.

wild hypotheticals

Perhaps. Shall I base my business workflow and strategy on your say so?

You don't have an inkling of what the issues are - just because activation don't affect you, and you think issues stated are a stretch you discredit them. I guess we should just consult Stuart for our automation strategy - maybe the bank will give us more money then.

And Carol,

It is unfair to characterize those who are opposed to product activation as pirates - I resent that. It is analogous to saying "if you have nothing to hide, then let us search your residence".

[Stuart...@adobeforums.com]

Tony,

"Perhaps. Shall I base my business workflow and strategy on your say so?"

No, you should base it on the simple and plain fact that no activation scheme has brought about the demise of privacy and the ability to use one's computer as they see fit. It worked for Microsoft with Windows XP, Office 2000 and Office XP and it is working for Macromedia so far. If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore these facts then by all means, go right ahead. If you want to argue that activation doesn't work then you had best get your facts in order.

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

Where did Carol characterize anyone as a pirate? She simply pointed out
that IF one were to copy the disk and install it on several
machines--which is software piracy--that would now be a lot more
difficult to do.

Please understand that I do feel for you and others in your situation.
You have a legitimate concern about your workflow. This is quite a bit
different than some of the others here who are crying about privacy
concerns.

Bob

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

Bob,

This is quite a bit different than some of the others here who are crying
about privacy concerns.

Your right.

Carol,

Sorry.

Stuart,

It isn't about privacy - not one bit. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that I won't be impacted and let time tell.

[david_...@adobeforums.com]

Carol

…or you can choose to uninstall the activation codes at the same time

(eg if you are selling your computer to a third
party and don't wish the 3rd party to install a pirated copy that uses

your activation)…<

Would this also inform Adobe the product was de-activated on that PC – hence freeing up one of your activations?
Just thinking of the situation where you had upgraded the PC – either to a brand new PC or you were reinstalling the operating system, upgrading the OS with a clean install; adding a new disk etc.?

Would the procedure be;-

1. Uninstall/De-activate
2. Make system changes
3. Reinstall and re-activate.

Dave

[Jerry_...@adobeforums.com]

2 activations? WOW. At the rate I upgrade my machines, that will last about 6 months. How many of us keep the same computer for more than a year?

I like the idea that the price should be reduced by, let's say, 90% of what Adobe figures it is going to recover from the anti-piracy measures. (most of us would probably be content with 75%)

But then, maybe the solution is to just ship our old hard drives to Adobe to prove that we are no longer using a specific copy of the program. Maybe something could be set up along the lines of what printer companies do with exausted printer cartriges. How about it, Adobe, want to send out some prepaid shipping boxes for old hard drives?

[John_S...@adobeforums.com]

I do have privacy concerns (whatever that makes me).

I am concerned about the drift toward subscription software (no, activation isn't it, but it could be a step on the way).

But the main thing for me is that I want my software shopping to be a matter of simple, one-time transactions. Once I go home with the CD and the serial number, I want that to be it. I don't want to have any further phone-home requirements -- not the first time I install a program, not after I buy a new machine, not after I have the disastrous crash that forces me to rebuild everything.

If that world is dead for Photoshop, then Adobe has lost a supporter here.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

Well, in all fairness, Stuart and Carol are right in principle. For most users, this is going to be nothing.

Personally, I don't like the disturbing trend to enforce machine specific licensing v. user licensing.

In order for it to work, Adobe, or whomever implements activation, will have to be reasonable - based on history, I can't see them NOT being reasonable.

The real question is what happens when an inarticulate person calls customer service to explain thier situation on why they need to activate again, and due to their inability to articulate it well, they are "marked" as having to buy another license.

There are lots of legitimate issues that creep up for users. My father in law doesn't use photoshop, but he changes machines in his office more than most people change underwear. Microsoft product activation is quite forgiving, in reality. You can have up to 8 (some say 11) activations over a specified period. So that's workable.

What I have a distaste for is passing control over to another company for deciding whether or not a particular machine change is legit. Then there's the issue of the appeal process - can you appeal a decision if you can demonstrate your issue as being sound and within the terms of the license?

All I really care about, is, can I get my work done unencumbered - the rest is academic.

[Earl_Ro...@adobeforums.com]

Activation is a method by which Adobe is taking advantage of their customer base by squeezing more money from them and not stopping pirating.

Secondly, it’s going to be increasing hard to manage an individuals system. Earlier, in this forum, I s asked what would happen on a RAID system, more specifically, if it had to be reinstalled on a different drive. The response I got back was with a simple RAID, there would be no problems, however, “If you change the drives in your RAID system enough times it is possible, though not guaranteed, that the activation process will kick in and require you to either reactivate via the internet or contact Adobe Support whereby you will give then an explanation of the situation and I'll bet dollars to donuts that you will have PS up and running in no time.”

The problem with digital photographers is that we HAVE to operate on backup systems with the large amount of images on hard drives. I have already had one drive fail with a revamping of my system hardware. In the FUTURE YOU ARE GOING TO BE LINKED TO THE SUPPORT GROUP for changing hardware and restoring failed drives. The ability to get your system working again is going to depend upon the timely response of their support group and we all know how easy it is to get a hold of them. Try calling Microsoft on a support question about their software. As companies get squeezed for profitability, what gets short changed is their staffing of support groups. Like Mictrosoft, they will farm it out to contractors.

Lastly, as digital files increase, digital photographers will look for bigger and faster machines to handle these large files. Since PS now supports 16 bit files, it is probable for photographers to be working with, a 16 mb file (D1H), 36 mb file (D100) to a 98 mb file (Kodak 645M). One could guess what the new D2H raw file will be in 16 bits or the yet to be released Nikon full frame digital camera, or how about the new Leaf Valeo with a 126 mb 16bit file. If anyone works with panoramic images, these file seizes just get larger. All of this means that photographers will be constantly migrating machines and hard drives at about the same speed as camera makers expand their CCD’s. Activation of software through hardware migration is going to be a PAIN IN THE REAR.

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

> 2 activations? WOW.

Read it again. It's two concurrent activations.

Bob

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

> I do have privacy concerns (whatever that makes me).

If it's over this, it makes you paranoid.

Bob

[Tim_Sp...@adobeforums.com]

Jerry, do you really have nothing on your hard disk that you don't care who sees?

Tim

[z07...@adobeforums.com]

Once everyone stops the unnecessary complaining and moaning on this subject, and discovers the existence of Norton Ghost and/or PowerQuest Drive Image, my guess is that it will not be Adobe愀 revenue heavily increasing ....

[John_S...@adobeforums.com]

z070tso, take a careful look at Drive Image. PowerQuest has implemented machine-based activation for some of its products. That may be one. Don't know about Norton.

[Jeff_...@adobeforums.com]

If you upgrade to CS from an earlier version of PS and for whatever reasons things go wrong and you have to speak to Adobe to get re-activation and they are not convinced, do you have to buy a complete wholly new version of PSCS?

Jeff

[Jeff_...@adobeforums.com]

Would your original PS then become un-upgradeable or would it be upgradable once again when PSCS2 was released?

Oh dear who knows!

Jeff

[Tim_Sp...@adobeforums.com]

Maybe you could upgrade your CS to a new CS, just to make them happy.

Tim

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

That's the point Jeff. Theoretically, yes. Practically, who knows?

[dennis_...@adobeforums.com]

Is the activation policy going to apply to European or Asian versions of the software?

If not, concerned users might want to upgrade using one of those versions.

Activation does seem to pose issues about long-term use of the product. We have seen any number of once-proud software producers fall into dust or be assimilated by other entities. Even mighty Adobe could fall victim to this fate. What assurance do we have that we will continue to be able to re-activate the license going forward? Is there any verbiage in the EULA about this?

If not, it seems that the value of the product is degraded by activation.

As long as I have a computer capable of running it, I will always be able to run PS 7. What promise do we have of this sort of longevity with PSCS?

I support the idea of piracy protection and enforcement of the EULA, but without assurance that activation will not eventually render the license useless to even legitimate users - or a guarantee that this license allows law-abiding users the same access to the product as the former version - the product is not worth as much as the older version, and should be sold at discount.

[John_S...@adobeforums.com]

The Q/A on product activation does address your questions. You can read that here: <http://www.adobe.com/activation/main.html>

I haven't read the EULA, so I don't know if the assurances are repeated there.

[Ian_...@adobeforums.com]

Denis,

Activation applies to ALL localised versions of Photoshop CS using the Windows format. It doesn't yet apply to Mac.

[Jeff_...@adobeforums.com]

At the moment I have a PS7 which I can install on my new PC when I get it (maybe a year to eighteen months) without any worry about activation. Once I upgrade, activation will be with me from then onwards. I will probably wait now to upgrade PS until I have new hardware. I have already done this with MS Office. Also I have five mainstream Adobe products. If they all need to be activated this will give me five times the hassle of just PS.

We are told that piracy costs us, the legit users, money. Somehow I doubt that we will benefit if activation reduces piracy. Thus I might rather pay the 'piracy levy' than deal with activation of all the products.

If you don't like activation the only way to protest is to delay upgrading.

All this being said I do love the Adobe products.

Jeff

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

Thus I might rather pay the 'piracy levy' than deal with activation of
all the products.

That's one of the most intellegent things said so far.

[Gary_Ro...@adobeforums.com]

I don't think there will be much of a financial benefit to Adobe from activation. I see a lot of casual PS users, and would assume that many of them have borrowed it from a friend, or downloaded pirated versions. To think they will now spend $650 is silly, many of them don't even know what a layer is, or its purpose. It's a toy to them, and they only use it becaause they got it free.

So activation will disallow those users...but that won't bring any money in, they'll use old versions or use something else. Hard core "pirates" often do it for the challenge, and will no doubt find a way around the activation...they have with MS products, and look at DVD's elaborate anti-copy measures, yet they failed too. They're not going to be forking over any money either, most don't need PS, they just enjoy the challenge.

So Adobe will get the satisfaction of knowing that these people who have no real use for PS anyway, won't be able to use it, mostly. No cash though.

I imagine there are some graphics pros around who will have to buy who didn't before, but the folks I know who use it on a higher plane, all have paid for it. For me, 2 activations would be a potential problem. I use my in-home machine much of the time, and have an office in back for when I need quiet or privacy. That's two machines (only one used at a time), so if and when I get a laptop for when I'm traveling, I'd have to buy another $650 copy. I won't do it, so there's no money in that for Adobe either. Yes, there are workarounds such as use the laptop in the office, but that's just a hassle, much as reaactivating would be when upgrading or switching machines, which I do quite often.

And what if your hard drive buys the farm, and you can't deactivate? This is a real possibility, it will happen to some.

Anyway, I don't yet see why I would spend the high upgrade price on this one; activation doesn't bother me much, it's been pretty easy with MS products. But I think it's really just a bunch of techies playing games with each other, one side saying "you can't" the other saying "yes I can", and the bottom line to Adobe won't be any different.

In fact, it could worsen. There are many people who have begun with pirated or borrowed versions, fallen in love with the program, and finally bought it. A 30-day trial will not be enough to establish this, so possibly it will even hurt sales. Just my opinion.

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>You can have up to 8 (some say 11) activations over a specified
period. So that's workable.<

I believe you can activate up to 8 times a year with Photoshop CS -
which I believe is quite generous.

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

You don't have to 'phone home' it will activate via a 2 or 3 second
connection online (although it might be slightly longer than that with
the first wave)

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>What assurance do we have that we will continue to be able to
re-activate the license going forward?<

Can I turn that question on its head and ask, would any software company
who assimilated Adobe turn down the income from upgrades by doing
something like you have suggested. No way, not ever - they would kill
their business stone dead for nobody would upgrade and the assimilating
company would have paid out a substantial sum of money for nothing.

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

Jeff,

I presume you have registered your previous version(s) of Photoshop with
Adobe - it will be extremely easy for them to look up your registration
details and come to the extremely swift conclusion that you are a bona
fide user - so that would present absolutely no problems.

If you haven't registered your previous copy, then I would question your
sanity <g> - who would purchase a $600 program and not register it??
For instance say your dog chewed up the original disk and you had to
re-install, Adobe would be pleased to help out with a replacement disk
if you were a registered user, but if you were Adobe would you send out
a disk to *anybody* who just happened to phone in and say they had lost
their disk and serial number - I sincerely doubt it.

[Wade_...@adobeforums.com]

Just as a sidebar to the discussion - this piece of shareware has an
interesting way of dealing with licensing that a friend pointed out.
Check out: http://www.zuggsoft.com/zmud/elicense.htm

It is an interesting alternative, and it seems to work well....

Wade

[r_ha...@adobeforums.com]

...you can stick with PS7 and use that for another 10 or 20 years...

You know that's impractical. Though many will stretch it as long as possible, now.

Really, what is so difficult to understand about that.

Nothing, if you only look at it from one point of view.

Copy protection died-off in the late '80s; it's cyclical.

[Ian_...@adobeforums.com]

I use my in-home machine much of the time, and have an office in back
for when I need quiet or privacy. That's two machines (only one used at
a time), so if and when I get a laptop for when I'm traveling, I'd have
to buy another $650 copy.

The EULA hasn't changed - two machines before and two machines now. Whether you like it or not the reality is that by installing on more than two computers at the same time you are in fact in breach of the EULA. I'm not accusing you of anything; just stating a simple fact. WE (plural) can all make a case for having more than two installations but how many more is justified ... 3, 4, 5?

Will activation stop pirating?

No!

Will activation increase sales of Photoshop CS?

Probably not as much as Adobe would like.

So why bother annoying folk with a PITA process that will likely prove nothing more than a minor inconvenience to the die hard pirate?

Because those of us who paid over hard earned money for the privilege of owning and using Photoshop deserve more than a shrug of the shoulders and "what can we do?".

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>Activation is a method by which Adobe is taking advantage of their
customer base by squeezing more money from them and not stopping pirating.<

Let me repeat what I said earlier:-
[quote] Huh??? Presumeably you would have paid for your update anyway -
so in what way is it going to 'squeeze' more money out of you.

OTOH, if you were planning on using a pirated version and simply not
paying for it, then this is why Adobe is being forced to go down this
route.[/quote]

They are not squeezing more money out of you - you can stick with PS7
and use that for another 10 or 20 years if you so wish. Activation will
*not* stop your old copy of PS7 from working. If, on the other hand,
you wish to avail yourself of all the new features in Photoshop CS, then
you would have happily paid for the update to Photoshop CS - whether it
contained activation or not. So Adobe would have received your money
anyway.

Really, what is so difficult to understand about that.

[Ian_...@adobeforums.com]

Carol,

I presume you have registered your previous version(s) of Photoshop with
Adobe - it will be extremely easy for them to look up your registration
details and come to the extremely swift conclusion that you are a bona
fide user - so that would present absolutely no problems.

Whilst you are correct about the benefits of registration you should NOT link it to Activation.

Product activation is separate and distinct from product registration. Product registration is a voluntary process during which you provide Adobe with certain personal and non-personal information such as your name, mailing address, e-mail address and product serial number. All information provided to Adobe during the registration process is stored separately from information provided to Adobe during activation.

In fact those with real privacy concerns (in my view unfounded) would probably be better not registering. That way they can feel safe in the knowledge that Adobe will have no way of knowing who they are.

Activation provides Adobe with two numbers - the first is your serial number and the second a machine specific number which is generated at time of installation. A third number is returned and depending upon your method of activation is either automatically embedded on your computer or manually inserted in the appropriate section of the activation dialog.

[John_S...@adobeforums.com]

Wade --

"Interesting" indeed. Makes you phone home once every 90 days! Even if you're not moving the software around. Sounds like Activation++.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

John,

You're right. I just read an article about another company that phoned home every week. Then their servers went down and ... boom, no one could use the software.

[Jake_...@adobeforums.com]

I think the message here for Adobe is that they are antagonizing many of their previously loyal users. Many of us were (emphasis on 'were') in the habit of defending Adobe because they made the best software (this is especially true in the case of PhotoShop and After Effects). Adobe has made a lot of bonehead moves lately in my opinion (no upgrade price to existing Adobe owners for the Video Collection, elimination of printed manuals with CS, and now the aggravation of product activation). What's next? Adobe defenders will say Adobe has the right to do all of these things in the interests of the bottom line ... no matter what. And they are right; Adobe does have that right. They DO have obligations to shareholders to make a profit and I guess that is their motivation. However, they risk losing the good will and loyalty of many users who bristle at these new policies. Just because Microsoft does it, or Intuit, or Macromedia does not make it good policy. If they lose a sizable number of users who used to upgrade the minute a new version came out (some users will do that no matter what, for any price), where is the value to shareholders then? Where is the breakeven point between upgraders and potential new users vs the cost of piracy?

Just as an aside: I wonder how many people started with Adobe software that was copied for them by a friend (pirated, bootlegged)who later upgraded so they could get the printed manual and be eligible for future upgrades? Or just wanted to be honest. Yes, I was one of those (go ahead, throw the first stone). When I first started with computers I also had illegal copies of Norton Utilities and several others as well. Admittedly, this was before you could download functioning demos to try before you buy. However, once I realized how great these programs were and how much they were worth to me, I went ahead, got honest, and paid full price for the real version and have been upgrading ever since. The junk programs I just threw out. Now, you don't get a printed manual anymore (just take the PDF to Kinko's), you have to pay for tech support (except for limited situations), and you now have to 'activate' your copy, and we know it is only a question of time until someone breaks the activation scheme, where will Adobe be? I don't think they are seeing the forest for the trees.

Jake

[dave_...@adobeforums.com]

for issues related to installation and product defects, including crashes
and errors

how many times have you seen here "That's not a bug, it's your machine." What happens then? Do they hang up? Or do they ask for a charge card up front "just in case"?

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

One point of clarification, which I DO applaude...

you have to pay for tech support (except for limited situations),

"On October 24, 2003, Adobe will change its policy for complimentary support. Customers who've registered a current version of an Adobe desktop product will receive unlimited person-to-person support—at no charge—for issues related to installation and product defects, including crashes and errors. Support for workflow, interoperability, and product usage will continue to be covered by our fee-based Adobe Expert Support programs."

At the main support site:
<http://www.adobe.com/support/main.html>

I guess it's that instead of the manuals.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

Dave,

True, but it at least beats...

"Hello, thank you for calling Adobe Tecnical Support. My name is Moolah, may I have a credit card number please?".

[Andrew_...@adobeforums.com]

Carol,

say your dog chewed up the original disk and you had to re-install, Adobe
would be pleased to help out with a replacement disk if you were a registered
user

If that ever happens to me I would have to hope Adobe wouldn’t ask my dog’s name…

…Sorry we can’t help you because your registered software got “Pirated”. ;)

(Note to self; Quit using Photoshop disk to play Frisbee with the dog.)

[Iain_M...@adobeforums.com]

I've been thinking about this.

To all those who are shouting "Truuuuuuuuust Adobe, it's easy, there's nothing to worry about, nothing can go wrong":

Let me tell you, something ALWAYS goes wrong. I already have several apps that require authorisation/ activation of some sort, and not one of them, NOT ONE, has been as straight-forward as the manufacturer claims (and not one of them is any more difficult to pirate, incedentally). Each time they go wrong they cost me time, which costs me or my employer money.

Do I blame Adobe for trying to protect themselves? No.

Am I angry that Adobe are introducing activation? Yes I am.

Will I be upgrading? On reflection, no. Not until there is a crack available that I can fall back on in the event that a legitimate activation request is delayed for whatever reason.

[Jeff_...@adobeforums.com]

Carol,

Actually all my software is registered via the Adobe USA site. As I am in the UK I did have a tech query with InDesign a few months ago. The UK office for some reason could not verify that I had registered the products and I had to re-do it over the phone. So that concerned me a bit, and a bit more now that activation is over the horizon.

I am pleased that you can have, say 8, activations over a period of time, if that is the case it probably wont worry me.

If Adobe goes bust or gets taken over and prods are discontinued it is inevitable that eventually because of activation someone somehwere will end up with unusuable software.

The one activated product I have is WinXP. Activation was so easy, and when I get new hardware I will get a new WinXP or whatever. That perhaps is the difference between the op system and an application.

By the way WinXP is fantastically stable op system. I love it.

Jeff

[Carol_...@adobeforums.com]

>because your registered software got "Pirated"<

Hee, hee hee

[2e...@adobeforums.com]

Will I be upgrading? On reflection, no. Not until there is a crack available
that I can fall back on in the event that a legitimate activation request
is delayed for whatever reason.

As I stated on another threat, the activation system change the nature of the license in its core. It keeps the control of the software use in the hand of the seller, thus it is changing a sale into a rent.

It is obviously a trend of the software industry to tend towards renting system. One can agree or not. To accept renting or not.

But there is one thing sure :

It is that if Adobe is willing to turn PSP to a rented software, it must be said loud and clearly, instead of disguising it behind an "anti-piracy measure".

As far as I am concerned I don't agree to rent PSP and I will not upgrade. I will turn to normal licensed softwares or to opensource.

[Stuart...@adobeforums.com]

2ears,

"It keeps the control of the software use in the hand of the seller, thus it is changing a sale into a rent."

How so? When Photoshop CS2 comes out I will still be able to continue to use Photoshop CS much like I can still use Photoshop 7 or even 5.5 today if I so choose. Adobe cannot force you to upgrade if you don't want to. Only you can choose to use the feature set of the new version if you want to.

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

> It keeps the control of the software use in the hand of the seller, thus it is changing a sale into a rent.

You obviously have no knowlege of software licensing. You have never
purchased software. The seller, in this case Adobe, owns the software.
All you buy from them is the right to use it. This doesn't change one
bit with activation.

Get your facts straight before you post nonsense like this.

Bob

[PJD]

Anything other than 'minor hardware changes' require reactivation, according
to Adobe:

"The process allows minor hardware configuration changes without requiring
reactivation"

If all software producers continue down this dreadful route, changing a
motherboard will require begging dozens of organisations for permission to
continue using the software for which one has lawfully paid! A nightmare.

> So far as replacing hardware is concerned - yes that to is covered as is
hard drive replacement.

[Robert...@adobeforums.com]

> Not only are you argumentatively jumping to offensive conclusions, but I believe it's you who needs to get his facts right.

My facts are straight. Adobe owns the software, you possess a lisence to
use it.

> It most certainly does change "one bit". You will no longer have the ability to move it between machines without asking Adobe's permission. It is no longer licensed to "you", but to a specific machine. Exercising your "license to use" the software in certain, perfectly EULA-legal, ways (such as temorarily moving the software for whatever reason) will change from being a 2 minute job to taking far longer, probably involving a phone call where you have to justify yourself to an Adobe employee.

Since you can have two concurrent activations I don't see this as that
big a problem. If you have special circumstances that require more, I'd
be interested in hearing them.

> No, it may well not be the end of the world, but has the potatial to be an enormous pain in the a$$, and as this PITA will affect only those of us who are honest enough to actually buy the damn software I think we have every right to complain about it.

Yes, you have a right to complain. But all you're doing is getting
worked up over a PITA that you haven't even experienced yet. Why not
wait and see?

Bob

[Iain_M...@adobeforums.com]

You obviously have no knowlege of software licensing. You have never purchased
software.

Not only are you argumentatively jumping to offensive conclusions, but I believe it's you who needs to get his facts right.

The seller, in this case Adobe, owns the software. All you buy from them

is the right to use it. This doesn't change one bit with activation.

It most certainly does change "one bit". You will no longer have the ability to move it between machines without asking Adobe's permission. It is no longer licensed to "you", but to a specific machine. Exercising your "license to use" the software in certain, perfectly EULA-legal, ways (such as temorarily moving the software for whatever reason) will change from being a 2 minute job to taking far longer, probably involving a phone call where you have to justify yourself to an Adobe employee.

No, it may well not be the end of the world, but has the potatial to be an enormous pain in the a$$, and as this PITA will affect only those of us who are honest enough to actually buy the damn software I think we have every right to complain about it.

[PJD]

As a registered user of a legal copy of Photoshop, I would definitely have
upgraded from Adobe Photoshop 7 if it were not for Activation. Now I cannot
see it happening.

I have, maybe, a hundred programs on my PC. If they all needed to be
reactivated after a motherboard replacement, the process would be horrific!
No thanks.

This is a development to resist. I'll avoid software producers who show such
lack of consideration for their customers..

"Bob Levine" <rjlevine.no.j...@softhomeNOSPAM.net> wrote in
message news:2ccd9...@webx.la2eafNXanI...
> http://www.adobe.com/activation/main.html
>
> Bob
>

[Iain_M...@adobeforums.com]

Since you can have two concurrent activations I don't see this as that
big a problem.

No, you can have one activation on a desktop and one on a laptop. That's different. And no, maybe you don't see it as a problem, but that doesn't mean others wont.

If you have special circumstances that require more, I'd be interested
in hearing them.

Not that its any of your business...

I have three desktop PCs at home (laptops are worthless to me). One is a new workstation, the others are older renderslaves. My apps are split between them. I often have to move PS between them depending on what else I am doing (rendering et al), but since there is only one of me (me being the only person who has access to my PCs, which are in my house) and I only have one monitor on my desk, it is litteraly impossible for me to break my EULA by using the license on more than one PC at a time. Whether or not I uninstall each version that I am not using is irrelevant (although in point of fact I do, my two slaves have small-ish HDs so I often need the swap-space for big renders).

At present it takes me 2 minutes to move PS, in the future I'll have to make a phone call and justify myself to someone at Adobe.

That is unacceptable, and that is why I won't be upgrading until I find a way to crack software I will be paying for anyway.

[Yrb...@adobeforums.com]

I'm in a similar situation to Iain.

The fact that machine specific licensing has always been a part of the license is irrelevent because it didn't affect users. Either the licensing has to change or activation has to change. Now they are enforcing machine specific licensing.

It's like renting a video that you can only play on the VCR you registered with. If you bring it over to your girlfriends house, it doesn't play because it was only registered on your VCR.

The difference is that in general, machine specific licensing is fundamentally different than user licensing.

Oh, and by the way, the license says a desktop and a laptop. So what happens when or if they are able to determine that you have two desktop installations? Everyone casually says "you can have two installations" - only if one of them is a laptop. They can enforce the license because one of your machines is not a laptop.

Is this the spirit of Adobe's license? Or are these issues simply "acceptable casualties"?

Please stop negating real issues for honest folk. If we were dishonest, it wouldn't BE an issue.

[Stuart...@adobeforums.com]

Adobe must have noticed quite high occurances of duplicate serial numbers being registered before taking this step sop yes, these are acceptable casualties to eliminate or at least lessen this problem. Some people will be caught in the crossfire but you should be directing yor ire towards these morons instead of Adobe.

As for the spirit of the license, there is no such thing. Licenses are clear in this regard. The fact that Adobe was a little more lenient in the past was merely due to the limited ability to enforce their license. Adobe NEVER allowed two machines in the letter of the license, only ONE desktop and ONE laptop. If you didn't have a laptop then you were not allowed to install the software in another desktop. Never have, never will. There is no such thing as the spirit of the license, that just a fabrication of anti-copyright slashbots who look for ANY loophole or means to legitimize their illegal violation of copyright and licenses.