Prince -- not influential???
bfr...@panix.com
: > |> > Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall were masterpieces. An
: > |> > accepted fact to everyone in the music business and most everyone else.
: > |> > What Prince album has ever held such acclaim?
(much battering of Dave's theories has been deleted)
I can't resist, so here's a coupla reviews by Robert Christgau, the
longtime rock critic for the Village Voice who is reviled by some but also
generally held to be a critic's critic and an uncommonly perceptive
writer. The books collecting his reviews are both published by Da Capo
Press, if you're interested.
PINK FLOYD: The Dark Side of the Moon (Harvest '73)
With its technological mastery and its conventional wisdom once-removed,
this is a kitsch masterpiece -- taken too seriously by definition, but
not without charm. It may sell on sheer aural sensationalism, but the
studio effects do transmute David Gilmour's guitar solos into something
more than they were when he played them. Its taped speech fragments may
be old hat, but for once they cohere musically. And if its pessimism is
received, that doesn't make the ideas untrue -- there are even times,
especially when Dick Parry's saxophone undercuts the electronic pomp,
when this record brings its cliches to life, which is what pop is
supposed to do, even the kind with delusions of grandeur. GRADE: B
PRINCE: Sign 'o' the Times (Paisley Park '87)
No formal breakthrough, and despite the tital/lead/debut single, no
social relevance move either, which given the message of "The Cross"
(guess, just guess) suits me fine. Merely the most gifted pop musician of
his generation proving what a motherfucker he is for two discs start to
finish. With helpmate turns from Camille, Susannah, Sheila E., Sheena
Easton, he's back to his one-man-band tricks, so collective creation fans
should be grateful that at least the second-hottest groove here, after
the galvanic "U Got the Look," is Revolution live. Elsewhere
Prince-the-rhythm-section works on his r&b so Prince-the-harmony-group
can show off vocal chops that make Stevie Wonder sound like a struggling
ventriloquist. Yet the voices put over real emotions -- studio solitude
hasn't reactivated his solipsism. The objects of his desire are also
objects of interest, affection, and respect. Some of them he may not even
fuck. GRADE: A+
--
Bryant Frazer | "Boot up. Good afternoon. Pause. Oooo.
bfr...@panix.com | I really like the way you talk.
914/631/7155 | Pardon me. Shut down." -- Laurie Anderson
QUEEN??? SORRY, I'M AN EMPRESS
> In article <1994Dec8.1...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>
> 00bbh...@bsuvc.bsu.edu (QUEEN??? SORRY, I'M AN EMPRESS) writes:
>> other artists use analogies *for* sex...
>> prince uses sex *as* an analogy...
>> if you cannot see that, then chalk it up
>> to your own limitations, not to prince's
>> limitation as a writer...
>
> A good writer, needs not exploit sex, as an analogy or anything else.
> This is not art, it is trash. No matter who uses it and how.
then twain is trash...
divinci is trash...
beethovan.... trash...
picasso... trash...
shakespear...trash...
need i go on...?
you don't...
not with arguements like these...
again, if all you see is sex...
then go to the doctor 'cuz
yo' EyEs are fucked up....
>
>>
>> Pink Floyd still groundbreaking...?
>> not hardly, their newer stuff is stale
>> and the only reason the majority of people
>> attend PF concerts are because of masterpieces
>> from the WALL and DARK SIDE of the MOON, as
>> well as the fabulous light-shows...
>
> Stale? Please do tell.
> And yes, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall were masterpieces. An
> accepted fact to everyone in the music business and most everyone else.
> What Prince album has ever held such acclaim?
Dirty Mind...
SOTT
1999
Purple Rain...
>> do yo honestly think LEARNING TO FLY charted
>> new territory for them...? no, it was the safest
>> song they could perform....
>
> A song doesn't have to be controversial to chart ground.
> It is a great song. A powerful song. A beautiful song.
> This is art. Good art does not have to be radical.
it's not about controversy...
learning to fly was like
re-drawing the mona lisa with
blonde haior instead of brown
and calling it "justifiable"...
yes, it was a good song....?
ground-breaking...?
proof that they are *still* geniuses...?
not hardly....
and what about
Sometimes it snows in April
Crazy U
Venus De Milo
God
if i was your girlfriend
when 2 r in love
adore
oh, you probably haven't heard any of
these songs....
they are but a fraction of the testimont
to prince's brilliance....
>> prince not influential...?
>> please... who do you think defined 80s music...?
>> whose style and compositional arrangements
>> and production techniques and instrumentations
>> were highly copied...? madonna's...? michael jackson's...
>> Pink Floyd's...? no....
>
> And where is 80's music now? Is anybody who originated in that decade
> still around with critically acclaimed albums(This includes more than
> just Rolling Stone, who, incedentally was never good at seeing good art
> at first glance.)
and where is 60s music...
70s rock...
still here...
still stagnate...
still boring...
hasn't evolved since...
hasn't inspired since...
where's 80s music...?
you're right....
it ain't around...
it's grown...
developed...
matured...
splintered....
but, akin to 50s and 60s music
was to the bing-band kick, 80s
music (dare i say disco even)
jump started a need to constantly
evolve... you can't see that, it's
probably because you're stuck in
teh past... if you don't like something...
fine, you have every right...
i don't like LEARNING TO FLY, but i acknowledge
the fact that yes PF were influential and
yes, it's a good song and yes, they have
damn good songs out there...
>> the answer is prince...
>
> Maybe for the eightees part.....
if you can't see ...
glasses you need....
>> who in this world would go from the all-time highest selling
>> album in 84 to something as eclectic and DRASTICALLY, daringly
>> different as ATWIAD...? Pink Floyd....? THE BEATLES...?
>
> Yes Pink Floyd. That's why they had to change record companies as many
> times as they did. Record companies did not like songs that were 8
> minutes long at the shortest.
oh, so now length of songs determine
greatenss....? well, geesh, prince's
1999 must be total brilliance...
as like 9 or 10 songs were put on a
double LP....
> Who made off better after such a chance?
> I'd say Floyd. Because they make honest music that comes across in
> the end. I haven't heard of Prince lately, Have you?
>
oh, so now, publicity determines
greatness..... gee, no wonder
madonna and michael jackson
are such revered geniuses....
> Again, a good artist needs to be honest to his music first.
> Daring is only a minor detail. Its good to have, but much more is
> needed.
do us all a favour bud, listen to mroe than just
radio prince and then talk about it... until
then, talk to the hand...
>> obviously, you haven't listened to PARADE
>> or ATWiAD or SOTT for that matter, or
>> beheld the beauty of CRUCiAL or CRYSTAL BALL
>> or heard some other daring outtakes from
>> 1999 or even Graffiti Bridge....
>
> Why then, doesn't Prince ever release any of these masterpieces? I'd
> be all ears.
d'you think PF officially released songs
as singles....? hell, learning to fly
(tho' a fabulous video) did NOT have a
single release... neither did THE WALL
according to my pops (big PF fan)...
singles are for radio-fans
he gives them what they would
like (ie GETT OFF or WHEN
DOVES CRY) the rest, you gotta
find on an album...
again, it's best to know
about that which you speak
of.... you do not....
>> my gawd, man...
>>
>> open yor ears...
>> if all you've heard from prince are the radio singles,
>> then, yeah, all he is is sex.... if you can't
>> look beyond the lyrics of even those sexual
>> songs to note their genius in production, arrangements,
>> instrumentation, etc., then you are the fool...
>
> Simple production, arranging, and instrumentation are simply
> superficial tools used to convey the art. They are nothing worth the
> word 'genius'.
again, read the above statement...
talk to the hand....
the more youtalk
the more you show us how little you *do* know...
> The lyrics and the music ARE the art. You can't look past them. There
> is nothing there.
>
bullshit...
and from someone who knows little about
the man's music (even what they are)
i highly doubt you have room to judge...
>> until you've heard prince in all his glory,
>> don't even try to judge him... you'll be
>> found wanting...
>
> Glory? Sorry. Prince may be creative. But there is nothing to give
> reason for him to be a genius or brilliant composer. But alas! Only
> time will tell. Genius is never immediately recognized.
indeed...
but ignorance is...
-br@nd0n