Andersen Consulting as employer -- summary of responses (400 lines)
John Siemion
Here is a summary of the responses I received about what it's like to
work at Andersen Consulting.
No responses have been left out.
John Siemion sie...@u.washington.edu
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From bangell%peru...@cs.utah.edu Wed Feb 27 05:44:28 1991
John,
If you like 60-80 hour workweeks, little time to yourself, if
you have a family and small children you may never see until they are
in their teens, if like being treated like scum and are willing to
brown-nose at anytime, then Anderson Consulting is the job for you.
(Dont let the big bucks persuade you like they did me, they will get
every penny and then some, if you make it out alive!!!!!)
-Bob-
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From jr...@craycos.com Wed Feb 27 09:23:52 1991
Well, this is just a tiny and maybe unrelated data point, but
my brother-in-law worked for the software side of Arthur Andersen back
before they split off the consulting business. He was laid off about
a year ago (he was a manager with almost 20 years there, and
fell prey to a trend in business today to cut back on middle management.)
They treated him extremely well in this situation, keeping him on salary
for (I think) six months and letting him use his old office, phones,
etc., while he was searching for a new job. To me, this indicates that
Andersen treats their employees well (at least their long-time ones).
For what it's worth...
Jim Davies
jr...@craycos.com
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From san...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Wed Feb 27 10:47:29 1991
I would appreciate you sharing the replies with me.
I interviewed with AC's Advanced Systems Group in NYC last Friday.
Although they seem to be a growing and dynamic company with various
types of jobs, the thing that turns me off about them is that they
strongly emphasize their corporate culture. In other words, each
person speaks for the whole of AC. This implies a level of
conformity. Now, I'm not a radical, but I don't like people telling
me how to do my work. Just tell me what to do, and I'll do it.
Otherwise, they seem like a good company to work for. Another thing
mentioned several times was overtime. I don't understand why they
emphasized it so much. I've worked 7 days per week, 14 hours per day
for a month when schedules were due, so OT doesn't scare me. I got
the impression OT is normal for them. This means that they probably
bid aggressive schedules when the client is gathering bids for a
project. Some of the people mentioned OT in the range of 20 to 40
hours per week on hot projects.
Another thing that caught my attention is that it seemed like they
like to attack critical projects by throwing more people at it. Most
of the training is on the job in addition to their St. Charles
facility. Again, they make a big fuss over this facility, whereas I
view it as only a temporary place to get some training.
In short, after working at Xerox as a hw/sw engineer for 5 years, AC
seemed like just another company trying to be impressive. If they
make an offer, it will have to be better than I could get from
returning to engineering and include the higher cost of living in NYC.
Rumor has it that AC generally pays quite low. An undergrad I spoke
with here in the lab said she had to negotiate for about an hour to
get her offer upped by $4K to what she felt was proper for her
experience and training.
I was told before the interview that AC's ASG NYC office no longer
makes offers at the interviews. This was a relief since I wanted to
keep my options open for a while. They said they will get back to me
within 2 weeks. My situation is unique in that I already have
experience. AC generally likes to hire fresh grads with little or no
experience. Also, my background is R&D, which they do not do.
Personally, I'm undecided about AC. The good points are the wide
exposure to various technologies, paid OT, flexibility, and benefits.
The bad points are the corporate philosophy emphasis (I'm still unsure
of the emphasis on this.), pay (unknown), some travelling, and
possibly looooooooooooooong OT. Their offer will probably be the
primary factor in my decision.
Anything else you would like to know? I hope you share some other
opinions with me before I get a letter from AC.
--
Sanjay Keshava Student in the UT Austin Graduate School of Business
->|<- Class of July 1991, Information Systems & Finance
Greetings to fellow Anteaters ('84), Trojans ('87), and Longhorns ('91).
san...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!sanjay
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From HU...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Wed Feb 27 18:26:10 1991
John,
Here's my two cents worth. I should preface this with the fact that I
was rejected by Andersen after the on-campus interview.
Both of my bosses worked for Andersen. One liked it, the other said it
was a love/hate relationship -- one day she liked it, the other day she
hated it. 60+ hours/week were not uncommon, and still aren't from what
I've heard. Her longest day was 38 hours. She went home and cried after
that one!
My own opinions: Andersen's a great place to start. The name gives you
a substantial amount of credibility. Even if you only stay (or last)
two years, you can say "I worked for Andersen." That will help you land
other opportunities. Andersen is a good training ground, IMHO, despite
the negatives.
A view from outside academia too, as I'm straddling the line: Andersen,
while thought to be the best on campus, is not unequivicably the best
consulting firm. It's hard to judge these companies, but Booz ranks
higher than Andersen when ranked by revenue. The last time I saw the
figures was about 1 year ago.
Good luck with your decision! Remember... you'll be a programmer for
a while (1-2 years) with Andersen. If you don't like COBOL or RPG,
this is NOT the company for you!
Steve
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Steve Huff, student, University of Kansas "Love that KU basketball!"
Internet: HU...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Bitnet: HUFF@UKANVAX GEIS: HUFF@HILLCORP#
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From wina...@divsun.unige.ch Thu Feb 28 01:56:41 1991
Well, here's a letter I sent to somebody else with similar questions some time
ago. As you will see, I wouldn't recommend Andersen for everybody, but I hope
it's useful.
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Amy K. Winarske ISSCO
University of Geneva
INTERNET: wina...@divsun.unige.ch 54, route des Acacias
PHONE: (41)(22) 705-7112 CH-1227 Geneva
FAX: (41)(22) 300-1086 Switzerland
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To: lu...@postgres.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Consulting Companies..
In-Reply-To: <38...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
References: <308.26...@dragon.uucp>
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
In article <38...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> you write:
>
> I am hoping to graduate soon with a PhD in CS.
>Looking at various options for my future, I am considering
>working as a consultant or for a consulting firm.
>
>A friend here tells me that firms like Arthur Andersen
>hire lots of CS types and that they provide great
>benefits, salary, and work in interesting
>geographic locations.
>
>FOr example, I would like to work in Italy or France for a few
>years.
>
>Anybody has worked for these kinds of companies?
>What are your experiences, recommendations?
I interviewed with Arthur Andersen, (I have a MSE in CS), last fall, and also
spent 3 weeks working for them as a short-term contract person this past
spring.
I interviewed with their World Headquarters "Research Center" in Chicago. I
too had heard good things about them.
They do try to hire lots of CS types, but they also recruit heavily from other
areas. It seemed to me to be the kind of place where the name of your alma
mater counted as heavily as the degree, if not more heavily, in many cases.
Some highlights from the interview:
* I was told that everybody, all new hires, regardless of training and degree,
went through the Arthur Andersen training program, 6 weeks in St Charles
Illinois, where the common bond was COBOL programming. I kid you not. And
that COBOL programming continues to be the main bond, along with adherence to
"The Method", which is their blueprint for everything.
* The partner I interviewed with told me the best thing about the job was the
money, and that he made over $200,000 a year. When I asked him what other
strong points of the job were he was hard-pressed to come up with a response,
and in fact did not.
* Two of the guys I interviewed with in Chicago were based in Texas. They
went home a couple of times a month to visit their wives.
* The average new-hire lasts about 2 years. People who "won't make
senior/manager/partner" "weed themselves out"; similarly, women "take
themselves out of the race, they want kids and stuff".
* There is a lot of inter-office socializing. It is not only encouraged, it
is expected. Your life is supposed to be the office. If somebody throws a
party, you'd better show up.
As for interesting work locations, you go wherever a client happens to be.
New hires and persons without seniority get last choice of location. The
longer you are there the more choice of location you get. An assignment may
last anywhere from 1 day to 3+ years.
People based in the Philadelphia office were working all over the place; there
was a particularly large group out in Hershey PA, another in Harrisburg, and
another right in Philly at Smith-Kline Beecham. Harrisburg is 2-4 hours by
car from Philly, (I forget exactly how long, but it's at the other end of the
state, and PA is fairly large) and those people were complaining about the
distance. Some lived temporarily out there and others drove from Philly.
I worked at the Smith-Kline location. I have never seen so many people do so
much idiotic paper pushing and flesh-pressing and posing in my life. Work? I
saw very little actual work done. The 4 men I was sharing a 1 person office
with consisted of 2 entry-level grunts, i.e. hired within the last year, 1
senior, and a manager. They worked from 8am until 6 pm, took 45 minute
lunches, and were utterly miserable. They spent their time discussing home
mortgages, cloth diapers vs disposables, their impending fatherhood, how many
people made senior last promotion period, where they were going to apply for
jobs as soon as they'd been here long enough to gracefully move on, how
incredibly stupid the client personnel were, how poorly dressed the client
personnel were, and whose alma mater was "better". There was also a lot of
backstabbing going on. At least the office was air-conditioned, although we
did have to juggle schedules to fit everybody in.
The managers were quite a bunch. I've never been called honey, Ame, whizz-kid
so many times in my life, not to mention the "I am dominant" shoulder-patting
routines I was subjected to. And I'm not the kind of woman who people do this
to, either. I mean, when you're 6 feet tall and don't act like a bimbo,
people don't, as a rule, give you shit. Unless they happen to be paying your
wages, of course.
There is some kind of dress code, something like suits and ties for the men
and no beards. I don't know the gory details, although I hear that in either
Denmark or Norway, I forget which, Arthur Andersen's insistence on the
corporate hierarchy and formal dress code bullshit has cost them a lot of
clients. The reason was "they're too American". That's not good press.
It's definitely a "good old boy" kind of place; they consciously strive to
keep it that way, too. Their hiring policies are to get people straight out
of school with little or no experience and train them up in the Arthur
Andersen thought patterns. They work people to the bone and then throw them
away when they are finished. They do pay well, though, and they pay overtime,
and they will help you find a job, to some extent, when you are leaving. I
think you have 3 months or something, of paid leave? I am not sure about the
last there.
Their policy appears to be tell the client what they want to hear, give
absolute deadlines, and when the deadlines approach with absolutely no way of
being accomplished, pull in lots of extra bodies from everywhere and make them
work 24 hours a day. This approach usually works. When the client complains
about the horrendous bill, tell them it's necessary to "get the job done
right." The Smith-Kline location was in particular havoc, because what had
initially been a smallish job suddenly became huge, as Smith-Kline
Pharmaceuticals pulled a merger with another enormous company and Anderson was
supposed to revamp both company's computer systems. I happened to be throwing
together a spreadsheet for the client billing - the hourly charge for the
entry-levels to the client was $79, for the seniors $150, for the managers
$200. I'm sorry, but that is just gross over-pricing. There is no way those
turkeys were worth $200 an hour. No way in hell.
EVERYBODY I met wanted to work abroad. As I mentioned before, though, they
were not given much choice in their work locations. The people who did the
most traveling were those who had been there for more than 5 years and were at
the manager level. Their structuring is entry-level, senior, manager,
partner. I think the time scheduling is 1-3 years to make senior, 2-6 years
to make manager, 10-12 years to make partner, but I am not totally certain on
that. They might hire you in as a senior, since you'd have a PhD, but you'd
still lack seniority.
In sum, they came across as incredibly superficial and completely lacking in
substance.
As for other consulting companies, I talked to a couple, and one that sounded
like a reasonable place unfortunately (for me) did primarily defense work. I
can't remember their name, but they are based in the Washington DC area.
I've heard good things about Charles River Associates, but I don't know what
their financial situation is these days.
I've also heard McKenzie (sp?) is decent, but I have no factual basis.
Hope that helps.
-Amy Winarske
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From att!cbnewsm!port...@cs.washington.edu Thu Feb 28 02:34:34 1991
I had a friend who was fortunate to land a job there, as you
probably know it is hard to do. He was super psyched that it was a great firm
because all of the career and business magazines touted it as such.
He was making great money with the promise to travel all over the country and
world, something he really wanted to do.
He quit after 6 months. He hated it. I guess everyone at that company has the
same personality type or business ethic and it just conflicted with my friends.
My friend is the type of guy who states his opinion whenever he believes he
is correct or disagrees. And he's a real smart guy so he's worth listening to.
I guess AAC doesn't encourage open mindedness.
Be Aware, Remember this is second hand so it's not etched in stone, it
could be a great job. I thought the company was outstanding before a
friend had a horrible experience there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Glen Zdroik port...@cbnewsm.att.com
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From ac...@blackjack.dt.navy.mil Thu Feb 28 06:16:57 1991
Hi,
I worked for AA&Co. (before the Consulting Division went on its
own) as a microcomputer support specialist. I was one of the
"support" employees, not one of the "practice" employees. The
support employees are the secretarial, clerical, and others
who work for the practice staff (managers and partners). The
"staff" (new to senior level) spend most of their working
hours in training (several months in the beginning) or client
sites (which can be anywhere in the US or overseas). I knew
and worked with many of the staffers, since I made sure their
computers had to work. Most of them averaged 50 to 60 hours
per week (on a good week). It's an extremely competitive place
to work, but working conditions are usually very nice. The
new hires are expected to be "pro" AA&Co. and conform to what
AA&Co. wants. You'll also be expected to wear white oxford
(usually 100% cotton) and blue or grey suits. Forget the
causual look; it doesn't exist at AA&Co. If you enjoy having
time to yourself, don't want to work in a pressure cooker,
and don't want to have to wear a suit & tie to work everyday,
then you'll want to investigate other employers. If you have
any other questions, please feel free to email me.
C. Aclin
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From avra...@whiteface.crd.ge.com Thu Feb 28 15:53:36 1991
Hi, I'm in the same boat. In fact, I have an office visit with them in New
York next Tuesday. I posted a similar message a few weeks ago, but didn't
much of a response. I've been working for GE for the last two years while
getting my Master's degree. I interviewed w/ Andersen coming out of undergrad
and came very close to accepting, but I held off cause GE wanted to pay for
me to go to grad school (it was also a good job!). But things change and I'm
getting tired of sitting in front of a computer everyday. (I'm an EE undergrad
and a CS-ish Masters).
The things I like about Andersen (and similar companies) are:
* VARIETY - first and foremost I think the nature of a consulting firm
offers a tremendous amount of change. So much in fact, that it may
also be the reason people stay away from consulting. But, I bore easily
so variety is essential for me.
* Opportunity - Again, places like Andersen have had histories of great
change and growth. Change can often create opportunities, but on the
other hand, the aggressive, hard-working individual that produces results
will benefit. The person who keeps a low profile and lets others waltz
by may not find opportunity in these situations.
* Diversified experience - since you will likely work across industries,
businesses and technologies, you will get a lot of exposure to things
most companies can't provide. The tradeoff here is breadth vs. depth.
If you want to do only one thing, and master it, it may be hard to
pursue at Andersen.
A couple other things...
I also interviewed with Microsoft out here for a Systems Engineer position
in New York or Boston. This is the label MS uses for consulting. Seems
Bill Gates sees a market here and he is trying to set up 'business solution
centers' in major cities to leverage his companies business. I mention
this since your Email address was from Seattle. It sounded pretty interesting
but I'll have to find out more.
Also, I am interested in moving to the Seattle area (maybe not for a year
or two, though). The group I'll be talking to with Andersen is their
Advanced Systems Group - seems its a big part of their New York group.
Do they specialize in any market areas in their Seattle office (I'm assuming
that's where you interiewed)? If I take a job w/ Andersen, I'd like to
'get my foot in the door' (so to speak) in the Seattle office. I put them
down as a second choice on my app, but they are mostly looking for
East Coast positions out here.
Well, hope I've been some help. If you receive any information from other
netters, could you please forward? I of course will do the same. BTW, when
I posted this question, I also asked about AT&T, Microsoft, TASC and Merck.
I saved most of the responses, if you are interested.
Ciao,
Dave
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From j...@ingres.com Fri Mar 1 05:09:15 1991
Bad, bad, bad. It makes IBM seem relaxed.
It's one of the most uptight places I've ever heard about.
Jeff Bowles