AutoText and user.dot (part II)
Jo
I am still a little confused as to how to use Global templates rather
than normal.dot.
Suzanne, you mentioned that it is best to put company standards on a
centrally stored global template and leave the normal.dot local. How
does this work? Doesn't a normal.dot open when word is launched? If
so, this doesn't help us because we need to have all our styles and
macros available to every user when they open word.
The only thing that needs to remain at local level is autotext.
Does this sound feasible?
Thanks in advance
Jo
Doug Robbins
If you select Options from the Tools menu and then go the File locations
tab, you will see that there are locations for:
User Templates , and
Workgroup templates.
You should modify the latter so that it points to a folder on your server in
which you store the templates to which you want each user to have access.
Please post any follow-up or new questions to the Newsgroups so that others
may benefit therefrom or contribute thereto.
Hope this helps,
Doug Robbins - Word MVP
"Jo" <joann...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:14f95d88.01071...@posting.google.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
styles are not. The solution, I think (and I have NO experience with this,
so I'm just parroting, I hope, what other, wiser MVPs have said), would be
to let users keep Normal.dot as a scratchpad for their own toolbar
customizations and other personal preferences. Put your styles in Normal.dot
if you like (though there they'd be vulnerable to resetting) or put them in
a workgroup template with instructions to users to use that template for
their work. Better still, make a variety of templates for various purposes
(that's the way templates are supposed to work, anyway). Even if you have
the corporate styles in Normal.dot, they will be overridden by styles in
specific attached templates, and trying to use the same template for all
documents is very counterproductive; you should have specific templates for
letters, memos, reports, etc.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Jo <joann...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:14f95d88.01071...@posting.google.com...
Charles Kenyon
templates folder on the network. That is, a template for letters, a template
for reports, etc. Use global templates to hold you customizations, autotext,
macros that you want available in all documents.
See http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm for more about
templates. (backup http://www.kenyonck.addr.com/usersguide/templates.html).
--
Charles Kenyon
Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
< http://www.addbalance.com/word/index.htm >
Backup < http://www.kenyonck.addr.com/word/index.htm >
Legal Users' Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented)
< http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm >
Backup: < http://www.kenyonck.addr.com/usersguide/index.htm >
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.
"Jo" <joann...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:14f95d88.01071...@posting.google.com...
Jennifer Wilson
My apologies if this is a dumb question - how can I find the original
posts/thread of this question? This is an area of great interest to me and
I'd like to be able to read it.
Thanks much,
Jennifer
"Jo" <joann...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:14f95d88.01071...@posting.google.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
used to be able to at DejaNews. Try here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&group=microsoft.public.word
Or perhaps someone else will have a better link.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Jennifer Wilson <jennife...@aec.ca> wrote in message
news:O8fwRCWEBHA.1400@tkmsftngp05...
Jennifer Wilson
Jennifer
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OZSPCTYEBHA.1308@tkmsftngp05...
Howard Kaikow
1. Macros, autotext and toolbars/menus in Normal, the attached template, and
all global templates are available for use with the active document.
2. Styles are available only from the Normal and attached template, i.e.,
you would need to copy any styles from global templates to where you wanted
to use them.
--
Please post your response to the newsgroup. Do not email me a copy of the
message.
http://www.standards.com/ipusers/standards; Word macros, including
converting from WordBasic to VBA; Technical writing and reviewing; Standards
------------------------------------------------
"Jennifer Wilson" <jennife...@aec.ca> wrote in message
news:emkeQn7EBHA.1296@tkmsftngp05...
Dave Rado
Styles are only available from the active document, unless you have
"Automatically update document styles" switched on. Even if you do, they are
only available from the attached template - not from Normal.dot unless
Normal.dot is the attached template. Word's Help file is wrong on this, BTW.
When a new document is first created it takes on the styles that are stored
in its attached template but from then on the link is broken (unless you use
"Automatically update").
Also see:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm
Regards
Dave
"Howard Kaikow" <kai...@standards.com> wrote in message
news:uaifFj9EBHA.1684@tkmsftngp02...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
ultimately based on Normal.dot, it starts with all the styles in
Normal.dot--with the definitions they had at the time the new template (or
the template it was based on) was created. If the Normal.dot styles have
subsequently been modified, the new template will of course not reflect
this, but the basic set is there, including all the heading styles, List
Number, List Bullet, etc., with all their "magic" properties. If you create
Template A based on Normal.dot and Template B based on Template A and
Template C based on Template B, all those templates will contain all the
styles that are in Normal.dot. They may all be defined differently, but they
will all be present.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Dave Rado <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:eNcEEaBFBHA.1748@tkmsftngp04...
Dave Rado
This is just my opinion, I guess, but I think that to say
that the styles stored in Normal.dot are *available* to
your documents is highly misleading.
To me that statement implies that if I open a document
that was based on an "out of the box" Normal.dot - or that
was based on a template that was based on an "out of the
box" Normal.dot - all of the custom style definitions in
my own copy of Normal.dot should be available to me; and
they are not.
Another very important point to be aware of is that the
only style that is actually *stored* in the "out of the
box" Normal.dot (in Word 97+) is the Normal style (which
is why it's the only one listed under "styles in use"
under Format + Style).
The factory default definitions for all the other built-in
styles are stored in the registry (I think they are stored
in the Data Key, but I'm not certain about that). They are
*not* stored in Normal.dot. Apart from the Normal style,
built-in styles are only stored in Normal.dot when you
explicitly define them.
You can define a built-in style without actually changing
its definition, BTW. One way is to select Format + Style,
where it says "List", select "All styles", select
(say) "Heading 1", select Modify + OK + Close. The style
will now appear in the "Styles in use" list and will
henceforth be saved in your template (as long as you
remember to save changes of course!).
The fact that the built-in styles (with the exception of
the Normal style) are not actually stored in Normal.dot
(unless you define them, as discussed above) explains why:
1) In Word 2000, if you "update styles from template" when
you have an "out of the box" Normal.dot attached, none of
your styles get updated apart from the Normal style.
2) In Word 97, "update styles from template" doesn't work
if the attached template is Normal.dot, but if you create
a new template based on an "out of the box" Normal.dot,
and then create a new document based on that new template,
then, as in 1), if you "update styles from template" none
of your styles get updated apart from the Normal style,
unless and until you explicitly define some other styles
in the template, so that they appear in its "Styles in
Use" list. (Hope that makes sense).
BTW, I can't take sole credit for these discoveries - Beth
Melton and I went on the voyage of discovery together. You
won't find any of the above in Help or in the KB - but
it's all very straightforward to prove.
Regards
Dave
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Landscape, Legal Portrait, and Legal Landscape) DO have all those styles in
the styles list, with (except for the Normal font) the same formatting they
had when the template was created (which is the same as Normal.dot, in which
none of the styles have been changed). Presumably those templates are also
getting the style definitions from the Registry? If Normal.dot doesn't
contain these styles, then why, when you rename Normal.dot and generate a
new one, do the styles get reset? Does this procedure also reset the
Registry? I'm not arguing or contradicting you, mind, just trying to get
some sense of how this works.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Dave Rado <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:8fd501c11476$6d7c1770$19ef2ecf@tkmsftngxa01...
Dave Rado
| And yet my "basic" templates based on Normal.dot (Letter Portrait, Letter
| Landscape, Legal Portrait, and Legal Landscape) DO have all those styles
in
| the styles list, with (except for the Normal font) the same formatting
they
| had when the template was created (which is the same as Normal.dot, in
which
| none of the styles have been changed).
If they're not in the "Styles in use" list, then they are being read from
the registry. If they *are* in the "Styles in use" list, then they are
defined and stored in the template - and may or may not have been inherited
from Normal.dot, depending on whether they were in Normal.dot's "Styles in
Use" list when the template was created; but out of the box, Normal.dot only
has one style in its "Styles in use" list, the Normal style.
Note that if you open a template in which you have defined one or more
built-in styles, and select Format + Style, set the "Look in" to "Styles in
use", select a built-in style (other than a Heading style, which
unfortnately it is impossible to delete, once defined); and click the
"Delete" button, it will reset the style to the factory default defintion
for the style - it will *not* reset it to the definition that is in in
Normal.dot (unless that happens never to have been changed from the factory
default).
To prove this, open Normal.dot, and change (say) the Header style to be 40
point. The factory default for the Header style is the same point size as
the Normal style. Save Normal.dot and then create a new template based on
Normal.dot. It will inherit the 40 point Header style. Now, in your
template, delete the Header style. Its point size wlll change back to that
of the Normal style, although in Normal.dot the Header syle is still 40
point. So it is getting the defintion from the registry, not from
Normal.dot.
| Presumably those templates are also
| getting the style definitions from the Registry?
Yes.
| If Normal.dot doesn't
| contain these styles, then why, when you rename Normal.dot and generate a
| new one, do the styles get reset?
The styles in the templates other than Normal.dot don't get reset when you
rename Normal.dot (or not that I have been able to reproduce, anyway). The
styles that appeared previously in Normal.dot's "Styles in use" list, which
*were* stored in the renamed Normal.dot, do get reset to the factory
defaults. The styles which didn't appear in the "Styles in use" list don't
get reset - they were the factory defaults before and still are afterwards.
Hope that makes more sense.
Regards
Dave
Bob Buckland ?:-)
I guess it's how you define 'available' :)
To me, it means I can use the predefined styles.
For Word 2000 the basic 103 predefined
document text styles (below)
are always available when it shows Normal.dot
as the attached 'ocument Template' in
Tools=>Templates and Add-ins is listed as
are all of the default Autotext entry, even
when the only Normal.dot file on the PC
consists of a one byte text file *named* Normal.dot. :)
The styles aren't in the registry's
Word Data key. With the imitation Normal.dot
you can rename the Data Key, start Word,
refresh the registry and Word doesn't write
the update until you then close Word in
many cases.
The predefined style names and 'non document
templates' are in WWINTL9.DLL and are
loaded into memory when Word starts.
I don't recall offhand if the definitions
are there or in Winword.exe.
If you use the Imitation Normal.dot and
use Format=>Styles=>Organizer only one
character and one paragraph style is listed
but all of the Autotext entries as the default
until a style is used in the document :)
FWIW, on the webpage
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm
having Word load global templates from the Program
Files tree can be very useful as those are often
set to read only in a deployment and the placement
of company standard templates or approved addins
there is often simpler than finding out where the
user may have pointed their file locations <g>
and when the network may not be available.
Word 2000's predefined Built In Styles
=====================================
P BlockText
P Body Text
P Body Text 2
P Body Text 3
P Body Text First Indent
P Body Text First Indent 2
P Body Text Indent
P Body Text Indent 2
P Body Text Indent 3
P Caption
P Closing
C Comment Reference
P Comment Text
P Date
C(u) Default Paragraph Font
P Document Map
P E-mail Signature
C Emphasis
C Endnote Reference
P Endnote Text
P Envelope Address
P Envelope Return
C FollowedHyperlink
P Footer
C Footnote Reference
P Footnote Text
P Header
P Heading 1
P Heading 2
P Heading 3
P Heading 4
P Heading 5
P Heading 6
P Heading 7
P Heading 8
P Heading 9
C HTML Acronym
P HTML Address
C HTML Cite
C HTML Code
C HTML Definition
C HTML Keyboard
P HTML Preformatted
C HTML Sample
C HTML Typewriter
C HTML Variable
C Hyperlink
P Index 1
P Index 2
P Index 3
P Index 4
P Index 5
P Index 6
P Index 7
P Index 8
P Index 9
P Index Heading
C Line Number
P List
P List 2
P List 3
P List 4
P List 5
P List Bullet
P List Bullet 2
P List Bullet 3
P List Bullet 4
P List Bullet 5
P List Continue
P List Continue 2
P List Continue 3
P List Continue 4
P List Continue 5
P List Number
P List Number 2
P List Number 3
P List Number 4
P List Number 5
P Macro Text
P Message Header
P Normal
P Normal(Web)
P Normal Indent
P Note Heading
C Page Number
P Plain Text
P Salutation
P Signature
C Strong
P Subtitle
P Table of Authorities
P Table of Figures
P Title
P TOA Heading
P TOC 1
P TOC 2
P TOC 3
P TOC 4
P TOC 5
P TOC 6
P TOC 7
P TOC 8
P TOC 9
=============
"Dave Rado" <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message news:8fd501c11476$6d7c1770$19ef2ecf@tkmsftngxa01...
Dave Rado
My point was that the predefined styles are available independantly of
Normal.dot, and are not stored in Normal.dot unless you explicitly define
them there; and that if you do explicitly define them there, those new
definitions will not be available to existing documents and templates,
except in the sense that new documents and templates will inherit them (but
will then immediately lose any link to them).
That is a very different defintion of "available" from the sense in which
one uses the word when saying that Autotext entries, toolbar and menu
customisations, keyboard shortcuts and Autocorrect entries are "available".
By blurring the distinction, which Microsoft does in the Help files, they do
everyone a disservice by making it harder for people to understand how
styles really work, IMO.
You can get the list of built-in styles just by selecting Format Style; but
I've just searched my hard disk for WINTL9.DLL and got no hits - any ideas?
I'm using Windows 98.
Regards
Dave
"Bob Buckland ?:-)" <7521...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:#kPEQXKFBHA.1296@tkmsftngp05...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
nor do I find WWINTL8.DLL (if there is such a thing).
But regardless of where they're coming from, the bottom line is that if you
open Format | Style in any template, you see a list of "built-in" styles.
The names are there, and the definitions are there. Unless they've been
modified in a given template, they are as God (MS) created them. The point
is that users don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are all these styles
already thought out and arranged in a working hierarchy, prepared for their
use. This is what I was getting at in my post in this same NG on the topic
of "direct formatting." If we want to encourage the use of styles, we should
make users aware of the rich variety of styles already available for their
use (a fact that I have really only recently become very conscious of
because I started with Word 2.0, using a lot of its installed templates,
which had different styles from those currently available). Exactly HOW they
are made available is of less interest to me than the fact that they are
there, and, since I have not customized any styles in Word and very, very
few even in my basic templates, they still for the most part have the
default formatting.
I understand what you're getting at: the styles from the current Normal.dot
are not "available" in the same way that macros, AutoText, and toolbars
stored in Normal.dot are. But my point is that some version of these styles
(that is, styles with those names and very possibly the exact same
formatting) ARE available in every template--indeed, there is no way to
delete them, only to reset them to the default (which I view as actually a
good thing).
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Dave Rado <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:u5dG2pKFBHA.1392@tkmsftngp05...
Bob Buckland ?:-)
Oops, It's WW9INTL.DLL for Word 2000 rather than WWINTL9.DLL <g>
Some Office files put the 9 at the end, others
seem to vary in location in the file name <g>.
The 47 predefined Autotext entries also appear and
are available, even in Format=Styles=>Organizer,
without Normal.dot anywhere and appear to be in Winword.exe
As a Normal.dot default template is built on the fly
from the program files when needed it seems to make
sense that these entries plus the default 'non disk based'
templates (Blank Document, Blank E-mail and Blank Web Page)
are also from those files.. While Winword.exe is a global one,
the WW9INTL.DLL files are, it appears, localised by version
with the message names/text that are displayed.
When you create a default Normal.dot all of the Autotext
entries are placed in it from the but not all of the
style names (although the path to this Normal.dot is
apparently embedded in the Normal.dot <g>). I'm guessing
there's a token/flag set in Normal.dot that Word can
compare to see if it uses the default built in style
or if it should look to Normal.dot for a modified version.
If you delete the Normal.dot file then you lose the
avaiability of the modifications to the default styles
from your 'customized' Normal.dot.
Yes, you can get the list from Format Styles, but
it's not easy to copy it out into a list from there <g>.
I'm not sure what part of help you're referring to
when you say they're not available, exactly.
For example -
========= Modify a document template===========
The content of existing documents is not affected by changes you make to the templates they're based on. Word will update modified
styles when you open an existing document only if the Automatically update document styles option is turned on.
==================
If I open a new document, with a default Normal.dot
attached, type =Rand() <enter>, select one Word
and make it red text, and then in Format=>Style
change Normal.dot to have Blue color as text,
I will have blue text except on the one word I painted.
If I then go to Tools=>Templates and Add-Ins
and check [x] Automatically Update then [Okay] the
text that was blue reverts to black and the default
Normal styles have been reapplied to define the
styles that have the same name in the document.
Whether they're physically in the default Normal.dot
or active because the attached template is Normal.dot
may or may not be significant to folks (if it works the
way it appears to them that it's intended to :)
[Note if it was already checked to Automatically
update, uncheck/OK then check/OK for it to do its
thing] :)
I agree things can get confusing the way it's explained
(both by me and in Help <g> For example, Normal.dot
is a global template, but only appears in the
'Document Template' section of Tools=>Templates and Add-ins,
not in the 'Global Template' section of that dialog :)
(that confuses folks all the time who are trying to
understand styles, I find).
It would be nice if the Style dialog had the same
dropdown perhaps as the Tools=>Macro=>Macros box
where you can select if you're looking at the document
or one template or everything :)
I can see where you're drawing a distinction on
'available' but, when you attach a template those
styles can be transferred to the document, and
styles from the document can update the template,
so that's also a form of 'availability'.
(For example if I had checked the [x] Add to
Template box when I made the Normal Style blue
then that is what becomes 'available' as the
Normal style text color in a new document.
In Word 2002 you can open a new document based
on an existing document (as if it were a template)
to add another layer :)
The plain text Autocorrects are in separate files
and the Autotext entries also are in files (except
that the default set can be in memory prior to
a Normal.dot being written on file close).
Plain text Autocorrects are 'attached' by
Keyboard language. If you enable say, Bulgarian,
then while in Word 2000 choose the Bulgarian
keyboard, the English Languge Autocorrect items
will no longer be available in Tools=>Autocorrect.
For Autotext entries,
If I close Word, rename Normal.dot to Regular.dot,
start Word then delete all 47 Autotext entries,
then close Word, I get a new Normal.dot, with no
Autotext.
When I reopen Word the Autotext entries are still gone,
until I use Tools=>Templates and Addins to
attach the Regular.dot again and then they're all
available.
Perhaps the help file term of 'building blocks'
makes more sense :) You get a block, then you
start to modify it. You can't put it back
to its original form, but you can go get another
'blank block' just like it to work with. :)
<< "Dave Rado" <dr...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message news:u5dG2pKFBHA.1392@tkmsftngp05...
Hi Bob
My point was that the predefined styles are available independantly of
Normal.dot, and are not stored in Normal.dot unless you explicitly define
them there; and that if you do explicitly define them there, those new
definitions will not be available to existing documents and templates,
except in the sense that new documents and templates will inherit them (but
will then immediately lose any link to them).
That is a very different defintion of "available" from the sense in which
one uses the word when saying that Autotext entries, toolbar and menu
customisations, keyboard shortcuts and Autocorrect entries are "available".
By blurring the distinction, which Microsoft does in the Help files, they do
everyone a disservice by making it harder for people to understand how
styles really work, IMO.
You can get the list of built-in styles just by selecting Format Style; but
I've just searched my hard disk for WINTL9.DLL and got no hits - any ideas?
I'm using Windows 98.
Regards
Dave>>
--
Hope that helps,
Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Word/Office MVP
http://forums.compuserve.com/gvforums/default.asp?SRV=MSOfficeForum
*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
What's New in Word 2002
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q288/7/25.ASP
Word 2002 Step by Step Guide
http://microsoft.com/enable/training/word2002/default.htm
Bob Buckland ?:-)
Much more clearly said I think than my rambling :)
The file with the style names
For Word 97 is WWINTL32.DLL while the definitions
would likely be a part of Winword.exe.
For Word 2000 it's WW9INTL.DLL
For Word 2002 it's WWINTL.DLL
=======
<<"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message news:uTj7QULFBHA.1400@tkmsftngp04...
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill>>
Howard Kaikow
I did not find any wwintl*.dll for Office 2000.
P.S. My response, which started this debate, was intentionally loosely
worded. In effect, styles in both Normal and the Attached template are
"easily available", but styles in global templates are "less easily
available". Discussing the lower level details would not help the typical
poser of the question that started this thread.
--
Please post your response to the newsgroup. Do not email me a copy of the
message.
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------------------------------------------------
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbar...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uTj7QULFBHA.1400@tkmsftngp04...
Mike Kew
> For Word 2000 the basic 103 predefined
> document text styles (below)
> are always available when it shows Normal.dot
> as the attached 'ocument Template' in
> Tools=>Templates and Add-ins is listed
While you're on the subject, Bob - can you tell me how to edit my
document template properly?
I've inherited Word 2000 (on a networked Win 98 system), complete with
templates and some working documents, from my predecessor in my job. My
trouble is that Word has far too many styles that it thinks are defined:
pretty much all of those you listed, I think, plus a few others that
actually do have some use. This means that I'm forever paging up and
down the style list. (It makes no difference if I ask it for "Styles in
use", rather than "All styles" - it still gives me the full list. Even
though I've been through this document a dozen times, and I'll stake my
pension that there's not a "TOC 7" paragraph *anywhere*.)
Now, I can never see myself using more than four levels of heading,
maximum - so I'd like to delete styles "Heading 5" and so on - but Word
won't let me do that in Format->Styles. After reading this thread, I've
looked at Tools->Templates and Add-ins, but whenever I click the
promising-looking "Organizer" button there, Word tells me that "This
document template does not exist".
I've tried clicking "Add", in the same dialogue box, and it lists a
couple of templates: but when I try to add "Normal.dot", it insists that
"The global template, Normal.dot, is already open as an add-in
program". It doesn't, however, list it as one of the "Items currently
loaded".
Can you help?
--
Mike
Suzanne S. Barnhill
the All Styles list, but all styles except Normal, Default Paragraph Font,
and Headings 1-3 can be deleted from Styles in Use. What "deleting" them
actually does is reset them to the default (as installed) Normal.dot style.
If they are regarded as "in use" in your template, it may be because they
have been customized.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Mike Kew <Mike...@degree2.com> wrote in message
news:3B5E740F...@degree2.com...
Mike Kew
>
> You *can* delete styles from the Styles in Use list. They'll still appear in
> the All Styles list, but all styles except Normal, Default Paragraph Font,
> and Headings 1-3 can be deleted from Styles in Use.
Every instinct tells me this should be so, but it isn't. I can't delete
any of the 'Headings' styles, right down to 9.
I can create a new style called 'Heading 10' and delete *that*, no
problem... but it's not really what I want to achieve...
Could it be something to do with the document map?
Mike
Beth Melton
document was based on a template other than Normal.dot. (Note the
exception to this for Word 97 as mentioned by Dave Rado).
I think what is important for users to understand is the fact that
once a document is created, the styles stored in the template are
copied and then stored with the document. One only needs to review the
document in Recover text format to examine this.
It is also important that they understand that unlike other tools that
we utilize in templates such as macros, AutoText, toolbars, etc, there
is no direct link between the document and *any* template when it
comes to styles. It takes some form of intervention, such as the
Organizer, a macro, "Automatically Update, etc., to update/add to the
styles in the document. Otherwise Word looks only to the document to
obtain the style definitions for the styles in use and that they can
copy styles to the document from the built-in styles and use them
"as-is" or modify them for that document/template. And they should
know which styles can/can not be deleted from the document.
Although at the same time I think it is important that those who use
Word regularly, or power users, should know the specifics of how
styles operate. e.g. that styles "not in use" are stored in the DLLs
Bob pointed out, (btw Bob, thanks for this tidbit! I thought perhaps
it was in the Registry but really wasn't sure <g>
Above and beyond everything else, IMHO the misconceptions regarding
styles need to be rectified. These alone confuse users when learning
about styles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Please post replies/further questions to the newsgroup so that all may
benefit.
Howard Kaikow wrote in message ...
Dave Rado
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can "delete" (the button should
really say either "reset" or "remove from Styles in Use list" - it does not
actually delete anything) all of the built-in Styles from the "Styles in
Use" list *apart from* the Heading styles and the Normal style.
The only way to remove the Heading styles from the Styles in Use list of a
template (to my chagrin!) is to recreate your template from scratch. This is
well worth an email to msw...@microsoft.com, BTW, and I hope you'll send
one.
If your Normal.dot has any Heading styles in its Styles in Use list that you
don't want to include in the template, then you need to either temporarily
rename your Normal.dot, or start Word with the /a switch, so that you can
base your new template on the "Factory default" Normal.dot.
You can safely paste the text from the old template to your new one,
though - but don't include the final paragraph mark when you copy, and
delete any section breaks first. Then use the Organizer to copy over those
styles which you do want to keep from the old template to the new one.
Hope that helps,
Regards
Dave
"Mike Kew" <Mike...@degree2.com> wrote in message
news:3B5ED487...@degree2.com...
Dave Rado
You put it so much better than I did! <g>
Regards
Dave
"Beth Melton" <bme...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ebu1nsYFBHA.1392@tkmsftngp05...
Dave Rado
~~~~~~~~
Oops, It's WW9INTL.DLL for Word 2000 rather than WWINTL9.DLL <g>
Some Office files put the 9 at the end, others
seem to vary in location in the file name <g>.
~~~~~~~~
OK, I've found it now - but how did you track down the info that this is
where the "Styles not in Use" are stored? I can't see any mention of this in
the KB.
~~~~~~~~
The 47 predefined Autotext entries also appear and
are available, even in Format=Styles=>Organizer,
without Normal.dot anywhere and appear to be in Winword.exe
~~~~~~~~
The big difference in the case of AutoText is that if you change any of
those definitions, so that they become stored in Normal.dot (or in any
global template), the new definitions are available globally. And if you
change any of those definitions in your attached template, they instantly
become available to all documents that are attached to that template.
~~~~~~~~
When you create a default Normal.dot all of the Autotext
entries are placed in it
~~~~~~~~
They are *available* to Normal.dot (and to all other templates and documents
that don't themselves have an entry of the same name stored locally) - but
they are *not* stored in it unless you redefine them (although you *can*
"redefine" them to have the same definitions as the default ones, as a ruse
to get them into the Styles in Use list)..
~~~~~~~~
but not all of the style names
~~~~~~~~
Are you saying that some built-in styles don't appear under "All styles"? If
so, how can you get access to those?
~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure what part of help you're referring to
~~~~~~~~
For instance, under "About Templates":
------
Every Microsoft Word document is based on a template. A template determines
the basic structure for a document and contains document settings such as
AutoText entries, fonts, key assignments, macros, menus, page layout,
special formatting, and styles. The two basic types of templates are global
templates and document templates. Global templates, including the Normal
template, contain settings that are available to all documents. Document
templates, such as the memo or fax templates in the New dialog box, contain
settings that are available only to documents based on that template.
------
It does not explain anywhere in the article that Global Templates contain
*some* settings that are available to all documents, but that Styles are
*not* one of those settings. Many people get the impression from reading it
that Styles *are* one of those settings.
It also doesn't explain that the styles defined in your documents were
inherited from their template at point of creation, but that from then on
there is no link between the styles in the document and the styles in its
template; and that if you want to update the styles from its attached
template you have to copy them over, either using "Automatically update
document styles" or using the Organiser. Or that the styles in Normal.dot
are *not* copied to your document even if you "Update styles from template",
unless (a) Normal.dot happens to be the attached template and (b) you are
not using Word 97. Or that even then, the built-in Styles that are "Not in
Use" will not be updated when you select "Automatically update document
styles" - the only styles that will be copied over to your document are
those that are
listed under Styles in Use in your template, not the others. So if you
redefine a style in your document that wasn't "In Use" in its attached
template, selecting "Automatically update document styles" won't update it.
~~~~~~~~
If I open a new document, with a default Normal.dot
attached, type =Rand() <enter>, select one Word
and make it red text, and then in Format=>Style
change Normal.dot to have Blue color as text,
I will have blue text except on the one word I painted.
~~~~~~~~
Did you open Normal.dot and redefine the Normal style directly in there,
then save Normal.dot and close it, and find that the change had also
appeared in your document, without having to copy the change over by
switching "Automatically Update document styles" on? If so, I can't
reproduce this behaviour.
~~~~~~~~
but, when you attach a template those
styles can be transferred to the document
~~~~~~~~
Normal.dot is no different to any other template in that respect. When it
comes to styles, Normal.dot is just an ordinary template, it is not a Global
template, whereas it *is* a Global template when it comes to AutoText etc.
And also, *only* the "Styles in Use" that are stored in the attached
template get updated when you "update styles". The "Styles Not in Use" do
not get updated. Which it is important to understand, if you design
templates.
~~~~~~~~~
so that's also a form of 'availability'.
~~~~~~~~~
So is the Organiser, then. And if you count the ability to copy styles using
the Organizer as meaning that they are "available", then you could say quite
truthfully that all of the styles in all of the documents on your hard disk
are also permanently "available" to all of your other documents. But that is
not a very helpful statement, IMO. Using the word "available" in that
context confuses the issue, and makes the behaviour of styles harder for
people to master. Beth described the issue it's confusing better than I can.
Regards
Dave
Dave Rado
~~~~~~~
users don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are all these styles already
thought out and arranged in a working hierarchy, prepared for their use.
~~~~~~~
I wholly agree that the built-in styles should be covered in any Word
training. However, I don't think trainers (or authors of books about Word,
many of whom get this wrong) should muddy the waters by saying that the
styles stored in Normal.dot (which in my case include over 50 Styles in Use)
are available to you in all your documents (which they are not). IMO, most
people find styles a big enough subject to master without having to unlearn
misleading information that they were taught on training courses or in
books.
I simply tell newbie trainees that Word provides a large number of built-in
styles which they can redefine as needed, (and I cover some of those
styles) - without going into exactly where and how the styles that are not
"in use" are stored. (Though if asked, I would have said that "Styles Not in
Use" are stored the registry, until now - the discovery that they are
apparently stored in a DLL rather than the registry is interesting to me,
but for most trainees, as you say, is unimportant. But the knowledge that
they are NOT stored in Normal.dot is very important, IMO).
More advanced users (especially those who may need to create their own
templates) need to know that the built-in styles are only actually stored in
a template or document once the styles are added to the "Styles in Use" list
(and that this applies as much to Normal.dot as to any other template) - and
they need to know how to add and remove styles from that list. For one
thing, until you know that, it is impossible to make sense of the behaviour
of "Automatically update document styles"; and until you understand its
behaviour, you can't develop a strategy to cater for it. For another,
without that knowledge, you won't know how to control what appears in the
Styles drop-down on the Formatting toolbar.
(I think you are unusual in this respect, in that (a) nonbody but you uses
your templates, and (b) you have not defined any styles in your Normal.dot).
As Beth says, intermediate users also need to know that you can't remove
built-in Heading styles (or Normal) from the Styles in Use list, once
added - otherwise
they will find out the hard way, as Mike did.
I should add that I am a victim of the lack of general understanding of all
this - and the lack of clear explanation of it in the Help files; both in
that I wasted a lot of time scratching my head over the behaviour of the
"Automatically update document styles" setting, before Beth and I got to the
bottom of it; and in that I had to recreate all my templates from scratch
some time back, in order to remove unwanted Heading styles from the list,
just as Mike is now having to do. I suspect that every professional template
designer in the world has hit that "gotcha" - and all because the Help files
are so unclear on the subject.
~~~~~~~~~~~
indeed, there is no way to delete them, only to reset them to the default
(which I view as actually a good thing
~~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed - that button is very misleadingly named.
Regards
Dave
Suzanne S. Barnhill
than Normal.dot. That's why I said all templates are *ultimately* based on
Normal.dot. That is, a template may be based on a template that's based on a
template that's based on a template that . . . is based on Normal.dot. But
at no stage of the game can you permanently lose these styles. The
definitions may have radically altered, but the styles are still present,
and if you "delete" them, they are still there in their default installed
form. So in that sense they are still "available." I think this has
definitely descended into semantics!
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Beth Melton <bme...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ebu1nsYFBHA.1392@tkmsftngp05...
Beth Melton
Not necessarily. :-) If you go to File/New and
select "Template" from the Create new section then
template *isn't* based on your Normal.dot. It is based on
the default settings that are used to create a new
Normal.dot.
Try this:
- Open Normal.dot and modify a Style to save it to the
template. (Preferably one other than a Heading so it can
be deleted later)
- Use File/New and create a new template
- Click the Style list and your modified style does not
appear.
However if you click the New command and use File/Save As
template then your template is based on Normal.dot and the
Styles are inherited from Normal.dot.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
>.
>
Beth Melton
|Hi Mike
|
|As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can "delete" (the button
should
|really say either "reset" or "remove from Styles in Use list" - it
does not
|actually delete anything) all of the built-in Styles from the "Styles
in
|Use" list *apart from* the Heading styles and the Normal style.
Actually it *does* delete the style definition from the document. If
you display the Styles in Use list, the style that was deleted no
longer appears. If it was a built-in style it will appear in the All
Styles list as the built-in default so it is available once more to
copy to the document.
For example, if you hold <Shift> and click the Style list on the
toolbar and apply any of the built-in styles to your document, you
have copied that style to the document. If you open it in Recover text
format it will be listed. If you then go to Format/Style and delete
the style it will no longer appear in the Recover text format.
|If your Normal.dot has any Heading styles in its Styles in Use list
that you
|don't want to include in the template, then you need to either
temporarily
|rename your Normal.dot, or start Word with the /a switch, so that you
can
|base your new template on the "Factory default" Normal.dot.
Another option is to click File/New and select Template to bypass
Normal.dot as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Please post replies/further questions to the newsgroup so that all may
benefit.
John Nurick
I've just installed an evaluation copy of XP on one machine, and the
only WW*INTL*.DLL it installed is
WWINTL.DLL 13/02/2001 01:29 738,720
This is about half the size of Office 97's WW32INTL.DLL, so I'm
inclined to suspect that it doesn't do exactly the same job -
especially as XP installed several other *INTL*.DLL that don't have
obvious counterparts in 97.
--
John
Please reply to the newsgroup and not by e-mail.
split $q,q[ acehJklnoPrstu]; $q.=$_[$_] for map hex, unpack
q,a,x29,q;89D010B3170A3B7041263B01D0177;;print qq;...$q.\n;
Mike Kew
> The only way to remove the Heading styles from the Styles in Use list of a
> template (to my chagrin!) is to recreate your template from scratch. This is
> well worth an email to msw...@microsoft.com, BTW, and I hope you'll send
> one.
Thanks, Dave. Will bug MS accordingly.
Is there any way to find out for sure which styles are *really* in use
in my document, so I can know I'm not deleting anything important?
(I'm thinking of defining 'Normal' as 80 pt gothic black, so at least
I'll notice if anything reverts to that...)
Regards,
--
Mike
Dave Rado
| Actually it *does* delete the style definition from the document
Yes it does, but I still think "Delete" is a confusing word to use on that
button, at least in the context of the built-in styles, which continue to be
available to the document (albeit not stored in it) after you've "deleted"
them. But thinking about it more, there's no obvious alternative that would
be any less potentially confusing..
Regards
Dave
Dave Rado
| Is there any way to find out for sure which styles are *really* in use
| in my document, so I can know I'm not deleting anything important?
There's a macro for this at:
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/reprobst/WordFAQ/SEru.htm
Regards
Dave
Dave Rado
this macro should do the trick, though:
Option Explicit
Sub FindStylesReallyInUse()
Dim StylesReallyInUse() As String, NumStyles As Long, oStyle As Style, _
oStory As Range, StyleFoundCounter, oDoc As Document, _
oSection As Section, oHeaderFooter As HeaderFooter, StyleFound As Boolean
NumStyles = ActiveDocument.Styles.Count
ReDim StylesReallyInUse(1 To NumStyles)
StyleFoundCounter = 1
System.Cursor = wdCursorWait
Application.ScreenUpdating = False
For Each oStyle In ActiveDocument.Styles
'---------------
If oStyle.InUse And oStyle.NameLocal <> "Default Paragraph Font" Then
StyleFound = False
'---------------
For Each oStory In ActiveDocument.StoryRanges
Select Case oStory.StoryType
'---------------
'Do Headers and Footers separately because cycling thru _
storyranges sometimes misses some Headers and Footers
'---------------
Case wdEvenPagesFooterStory, wdEvenPagesHeaderStory, _
wdFirstPageFooterStory, wdFirstPageHeaderStory, _
wdPrimaryFooterStory, wdPrimaryHeaderStory
'---------------
Case Else
'---------------
With oStory.Find
.Format = True
.Wrap = wdFindContinue
.Style = oStyle.NameLocal
'---------------
If .Execute Then
'if found, add stylename to array
StyleFound = True
StylesReallyInUse(StyleFoundCounter) = _
oStyle.NameLocal
StyleFoundCounter = StyleFoundCounter + 1
'---------------
Else
'if not found, search other stories of same type
'---------------
Do While Not oStory.NextStoryRange Is Nothing
'---------------
Set oStory = oStory.NextStoryRange
With oStory.Find
.Format = True
.Wrap = wdFindContinue
.Style = oStyle.NameLocal
If .Execute Then
StyleFound = True
StylesReallyInUse(StyleFoundCounter) = _
oStyle.NameLocal
StyleFoundCounter = _
StyleFoundCounter + 1
Exit Do
End If
End With
'---------------
Loop
'---------------
End If
'---------------
End With
'---------------
End Select
'---------------
Next oStory
'---------------
'If not found, check Headers and footers; unfortunately, this _
method of cycling through them may convert any blank headers/ _
footers into non-blankones, but at least it won't miss any out
'---------------
If Not StyleFound Then
For Each oSection In ActiveDocument.Sections
'---------------
For Each oHeaderFooter In oSection.Headers
'---------------
If oHeaderFooter.Exists Then
'---------------
If Len(oHeaderFooter.Range.Text) > 1 Then
'---------------
With oHeaderFooter.Range.Find
.Format = True
.Wrap = wdFindContinue
.Style = oStyle.NameLocal
'---------------
If .Execute Then
StyleFound = True
StylesReallyInUse(StyleFoundCounter) = _
oStyle.NameLocal
StyleFoundCounter = _
StyleFoundCounter + 1
Exit For
End If
'---------------
End With
'---------------
End If
'---------------
End If
'---------------
Next oHeaderFooter
'---------------
Next oSection
'---------------
End If
'---------------
End If
'---------------
Next oStyle
ReDim Preserve StylesReallyInUse(1 To StyleFoundCounter - 1)
Set oDoc = Documents.Add
For StyleFoundCounter = 1 To UBound(StylesReallyInUse)
oDoc.Range.InsertAfter StyleFoundCounter & "." & vbTab & _
StylesReallyInUse(StyleFoundCounter) & vbCr
Next StyleFoundCounter
System.Cursor = wdCursorNormal
Application.ScreenUpdating = True
End Sub
"Mike Kew" <Mike...@degree2.com> wrote in message
news:3B611B27...@degree2.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill
styles is based on Normal--and most of the built-in ones are unless you've
changed them.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft Word MVP
Words into Type
Fairhope, AL USA
Mike Kew <Mike...@degree2.com> wrote in message
news:3B611B27...@degree2.com...
Howard Kaikow
Office 2000 is alleged to use a common code base for all language versions
of Office (with a few exceptions).
Office XP likely carries that 1 step further.
Comparing file sizes is no indication of functional changes.
--
Please post your response to the newsgroup. Do not email me a copy of the
message.
http://www.standards.com/ipusers/standards; Word macros, including
converting from WordBasic to VBA; Technical writing and reviewing; Standards
------------------------------------------------
"John Nurick" <jnu...@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in message
news:8522mtcsm7qth4moo...@4ax.com...
Charles Kenyon
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=acc45e6994ae322d,37> and
the discussion of where styles live and inheritances begins with Howard
Kaikow's post which is the 7th in the thread. I've found it informative (and
entertaining) enough to add it to my list of styles links and to the
additional reading list in the supplemented Understanding Styles chapter for
the Legal Users Guide.
--
Charles Kenyon
Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/word/index.htm>
Backup <URL: http://www.kenyonck.addr.com/word/index.htm>
Legal Users' Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented)
<URL: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>
Backup: <URL: http://www.kenyonck.addr.com/usersguide/index.htm>
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.
Mike Kew
>
> Ignore my last post - Silvia's macro looks for fonts rather than styles -
> this macro should do the trick, though:
>
<snip >100 lines of code>
Wow, this really is a full-service newsgroup, isn't it?
Thanks, Dave!
Mike