FAQ - rec.travel.cruises (1 of 2)
John Davis
==========================================
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
FOR
REC.TRAVEL.CRUISES
===========================================
Version 1.1
edited and compiled by Sally Stearns
ste...@pixel.kodak.com
posted by John Davis
jbd...@nando.net
This FAQ is posted to rec.travel.cruises on the 7th, 17th and 27th of each
month. It is also stored in the r.t.c. Cruise Review library at URL -
http://www.solutions.net/rec-travel/cruises/rtc.html.
INTRODUCTION:
Welcome to rec.travel.cruises! The function of this FAQ is to answer common
questions and provide basic background information about traveling by cruise
ship. New subscribers to the group often ask the same questions. This FAQ was
developed to facilitate answering those questions without clogging the group
with the same information over and over which gets tiresome for regular
readers.
Thanks to all of the contributors to the FAQ's first revision for their
feedback, John Coan, John Davis, Joseph Goodman, Gwen Brake, Brian
Martin, Teri Tracy, Adam F. My apologies to anyone who I may have
missed. This is still a work in progress, please feel free to offer comments
for the next revision.
Happy Cruising !
Sally
ste...@pixel.kodak.com
I begin the FAQ with these eloquent words from Gwen Brake:
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Impressions of a First Time Cruiser
by Gwen Brake
I confess that we were so overwhelmed by the experience of being on a ship
for the first time that our arrival in port on the morning of the second day
was inconsequential. We were still stumbling around, eyes slightly glazed,
wondering what a day on board a ship would be like.
I will never forget looking down the main deck, seeing cabin doors as far
as I could see. People were little at the other end. A cabin steward at the
other end of the hall waved...obviously sensing a first-time floater. I keep
dreaming about this image.
There is something about cruising the first time that is amazing. Over the
course of the four days and nights, I could never fully own it...or
understand it...or have experienced it. Most of our lives seem to be
programmed. We follow routines. I didn't know what to do with this new
experience, so I did it all.
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Subject:
Table of Contents :
0.0 General information on the FAQ 2
0.1 What's new in this version ? 2
0.2 Where can I find the latest version of the FAQ ? 2
0.3 Copyright issues 2
1. Choosing a Cruise 2
1.1 How long a cruise should I take ? 3
1.2 How much does a cruise cost ? 3
2. Which cruise line should I book ? 4
2.1 Which is better a new ship or an older one ? 5
2.2 Which should I take a large ship or a small one ? 5
2.3 What's the difference between the cruise lines ? 6
2.4 What's included in the price ? 6
2.5 What's an air/sea package ? 7
2.6 How do I pick a cabin ? 7
2.7 Is the ship handicap-accessible ? 9
2.8 What should I pack ? 9
3. Food Glorious Food ! 10
3.1 Can I really eat 12 times a day ? 10
3.2 I'm on a special diet. 10
3.3 What about the kids ? 10
3.4 Do I really have to dress for dinner ? 11
3.5 Is there room service ? 11
3.6 Can we celebrate a special occasion ? 11
3.7 Can I smoke in the dining room, and anywhere else
on the ship ? 12
3.8 Which seating should I choose early or late? 12
3.9 We don't like the people were sitting with, what can
we do ? Do I have to sit with strangers ? 13
4. Those "items of a personal nature" in other words what isn't
included 13
4.1 How do I set up a ship-board account ? 13
4.2 Do I get any drinks for "free"? 14
4.3 What about the shops ? 14
4.4 What about photographs ? 14
4.5 Can I have laundry done ? 15
4.6 What about phone calls ? Can I phone home ? 15
4.7 What are port taxes ? 15
4.8 Should I purchase the travel insurance ? 16
4.9 What else isn't included ? 16
5. Activities 16
5.1 Will I get bored, what's there to do ? 16
5.2 Can I work out ? 17
6. Entertainment 17
6.1 What are the evening shows like ? 17
6.2 Is there anything else to do at night ? 18
7. What about the kids ? 18
7.1 Are cruise lines "kid friendly" ? 18
7.2 Will there be other kids on board ? 18
7.3 My kids are age x and y, are they old enough to
cruise? 18
7.4 Can I get a baby-sitter ? 19
7.5 What type of activities are there for the kids ? 19
8. Ports of Call 19
8.1 What is there to do in port? 19
8.2 How expensive are the tours ? 20
8.3 Do I have to take a tour to get off the ship ? 20
8.4 Do I need a passport ? 20
9. Safety and Medical 21
9.1 Will I get seasick ? 21
9.2 What about sea-sickness prevention ? 21
9.3 What about medical emergencies ? 22
9.4 I have a pre-existing medical condition, can I still
cruise ? 22
9.5 What about safety ? 22
10.0 Tipping 23
10.1 Do I have to tip ? 23
10.2 Who do I tip, how much, and when? 24
11.0 Gambling 24
11.1 What type of gambling is offered by the ship ? 24
12 Freighter Travel 25
12.1 Is it possible to book passage on a freighter ? 26
13 Reference Books for Cruise Travel 26
14 Travel Scams 27
14.1 I received an offer for a "cruise" vacation at a really
great price but I need to accept within 3 days. Is this a
good deal ? 27
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Subject:
0.0 General information on the FAQ
0.1 What's new in this version ?
This section, for one, to inform you what's new with the FAQ
as well as the introduction.
Formatting changes including adding dotted lines between
sections and the word subject. This should help those who
want to skip a section or do searches with a find command.
A section on freighter cruising which I gleaned while reading
r.t.c.
A section on guide books to cruise travel.
An expanded section on gambling on board ship.
Incorporation of many of the suggestions from the r.t.c.
readers to make the FAQ more informative and accurate.
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0.2 Where can I find the latest version of the FAQ ?
The FAQ is posted on a regular basis to the r.t.c. newsgroup by John Davis
jbd...@nando.net and is available by anonymous FTP from ftp.digimark.net in
directory /pub/rec-travel/cruises. The file name is rtc_faqs. It is also
available thru the World Wide Web at the following URL -
http://www.digimark.net/rec-travel/cruises/rtc.html.
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0.3 Copyright issues
This FAQ is copyright by Sally Stearns. It may be
distributed, in its complete form, on an unlimited basis for
non-profit use.
If you plan to use the FAQ for commercial purposes, I'd like
you to ask my permission first.
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Subject:
1. Choosing a Cruise
I've never been on a cruise before where do I start ?
There are a few factors to be considered before booking a cruise.
Determine how long a cruise you would like, where you would
like to go, and the amount of money you have to budget for your
trip. Once you have narrowed your field of choices visit a few
local travel agencies that deal in cruises. The agents can provide
brochures and pricing information for the length cruise and
destination you have selected.
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1.1 How long a cruise should I take ?
Cruises range in length from 3 days to several weeks. Your
available time, budget and to some extent the destination will
determine how long a cruise you will select. Many first time
cruisers opt for a 3-4 day cruise to test their "sea legs".
Several lines offer 3-4 day cruises to the Bahamas and
Mexico.
The average cruise is between 7 - 14 days. In this time frame
you can select from cruises to the Caribbean, Alaska, Europe
and many points in between.
If your budget will allow you can even take around the world
cruises lasting hundreds of days.
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1.2 How much does a cruise cost ?
Cruise costs vary depending on the length, the cruise line, the
destination and time of year. Longer cruises cost more.
Most destinations have peak periods when the prices are
higher.
Cruise lines vary from economy level to super luxury.
However, it is not always possible to establish a linear
relationship between the cost of the cruise and the value
received. Not all expensive cruises offer enough luxury or
features to justify their additional costs, to some passengers.
It is important to analyze the costs of a cruise to determine if
the cruise line is giving you the value you want. The best
way to do this is to talk with friends who have been on the
same line or establish a relationship with a travel agent who
has first-hand experience with the line, the ships, and their
itineraries.
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1.2.1 How can I tell if I'm getting a good deal ?
Rule of thumb for cruising is "never ever pay book price " ,
the cruise industry is heavily discounted. Ask your travel
agent what kind of specials they're offering. An example, for
Caribbean cruises the fall is a more difficult time for the lines
to fill their ships. Often lines will offer 2 for 1 pricing or
similar discounts. Most lines have alumni programs offering
discounts to people who have previously sailed with them.
Cruise only agencies may offer price advantages on cruises,
but at a lower level of service. To insure that the "deal" you
are being offered is a good one requires shopping around and
doing your homework.
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1.2.2 What's a guaranteed rate ?
When you book a cruise you select a cabin level. You are
guaranteed a cabin at this level or better for this rate.
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1.2.3 What is price protection ?
Price Protection means that you are protected against price
increases in the cruise rate once your booking is under
deposit.
Recently lines have also been guaranteeing that should the
price of the cruise drop before your sailing date they will
refund the difference. The cruise line does not take the
responsibility of notifying you in the case of a price decrease.
It's best to check with your travel agent from time to time
after you book on the rates and ask for money back if the rate
goes down.
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1.2.4 What about upgrades ?
Cruise lines want to fill their ships. Often certain cabin levels
will sell out, the line may upgrade some earlier booked
passengers to a more expensive cabin in order to meet the
demand for the lower level. Some offer free upgrades as an
incentive for booking early, to fill an empty ship or for
alumni.
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1.2.4 I'm single, do I really have to pay a supplement ?
Unfortunately the travel industry does penalize the single
traveler. Most lines charge a single person 150 % of the rate
for a single occupancy cabin. Many lines offer a guarantee
share. They will pair you with a roommate, of the same sex,
at the double occupancy rate. And, should you take this deal,
you may be fortunate enough to get a single cabin if the line
in unable to find you a roommate. If the thought of sharing a
cabin with a person you haven't met doesn't bother you this
may be an option.
A very few of the older ships have a small number of single
occupancy cabins available that are sold at the double
occupancy rate.
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Subject:
2. Which cruise line should I book ?
Cruise lines cover a wide spectrum of taste so in a large part the
answer to this question is what you are looking for in a vacation.
Cruise lines vary from glittering casinos, discos and party
atmosphere to more sedate quiet ships. And, as you might expect,
they also vary in cost.
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2.1 Which is better a new ship or an older one ?
New ships have the latest in facilities. Plumbing, air
conditioning, and electrical equipment is the latest
technology. They are modern and spacious. The cabin
layout and public rooms are normally large and well
designed. Newer ships tend to be larger with more
passengers. Health spas and sports activity areas are
generally better equipped on newer vessels. Newer vessels
also generally have a shallower draft, which allows them to
dock in harbors. This can become a factor when you have
only a short time in port. Tendering usually takes more time
than being dockside, especially on a large ship.
Older ships have the charm and grace of the era in which
they were built. When well maintained the facilities are
comparable to the newer mega-liner. Often these ships are
smaller and more intimate, but others, such as the s/s Norway
are very large. In older ships, which were designed for two
class ocean voyages, the cabins will vary greatly in size and
amenities from the highest priced to the lowest priced
category. In the higher priced cabins, the old *first class*
cabins, there may be extra space for lounging about. Make
sure you select your cabin carefully on an older vessel to
insure that it meets your needs.
Many of the lower priced cruise lines have older vessels that
have been renovated.
When looking at a ship, check into the cruise lines reputation
for maintenance and service. A good maintenance record is
vital to keep any ship, new or old, running smoothly.
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2.2 Which should I take a large ship or a small one ?
This is again a matter of taste and what you want from your
cruise. (Ships greater than 40,000 GRT are what this author
calls large.) Large ships offer more shops, bigger public
rooms and many activities. They also have more passengers.
Crowd control becomes more of an issue on larger vessels.
Your destination may also be a factor in selecting ship size.
Some of the newer vessels can't fit through the Panama Canal
and destinations that are less popular to the masses are often
served by smaller ships.
Smaller ships offer a more intimate cruise and some are very
expensive. Some of the super luxury ships offer single
seating dining, orchestras and all suite cabins. Pools, public
areas and facilities are scaled for the ship's size.
One thing to watch for is older ships that have had additional
cabins added to increase the passenger capacity. Often when
these renovations are done the public rooms size remains the
same. This can put a strain on the facilities designed for a
fewer number of people. A good way to check on just how
crowded you might feel n a given cruise ship is to compute
the *passenger/space* ratio. This can be derived by dividing
the ships gross register tonnage (a standard of interior space
which has nothing to do with weight) with the number of
passengers carried. The higher the PSR the more "space" per
passenger.
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2.3 What's the difference between the cruise lines ?
Fielding's, Fodor's and Berlitz all have rating systems for
cruise lines. A good place to find this information is the local
library. That said, like the rest of life, in cruising you get
what you pay for. There is great value for your dollar in
cruising but amenities and level of service vary in some
respect with what you pay. Economy lines have a lower
quality of food, service and usually older vessels. They can
provide a great cruise experience but don't book a economy
level cruise and be disappointed because you didn't get free
bathrobes. Super luxury cruises offer all outside staterooms,
balconies, mini-bars and bathrobes. The food is 5 star and
service impeccable just as you would expect in any
expensive land side resort. Most cruise lines fall somewhere
in between with excellent food, service and a variety of cabin
types.
Cruise lines also vary in atmosphere. Some lines are known
for their party atmosphere, others are more popular with
senior citizens, still others cater to families with children.
Different lines market to varying demographic groups.
Economy lines appeal to folks with a limited budget, luxury
lines to those with lots of disposable dollars. There are
specialty cruises for dancers, sports fans, and just about any
group under the sun. Reading the cruise line reviews is the
best way to select a number of lines that appeal to you, then
discuss them with your travel agent.
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2.4 What's included in the price ?
The price of the cruise includes, your accommodations, all
ship board meals and all ship board entertainment. In some
cases, it will include airfare and transfers to and from the
ship. It does not include, * in most cases *, the cost of drinks
(alcoholic and soda), gambling, items of a personal nature,
beauty shops, laundry service, photographs, shore
excursions, medical visits, tips and port tax.
A notable exception to the inclusion of drinks is Silver Seas
cruise line,( one of the luxury market cruise lines). Silver
Seas' price includes all drinks. Silver Seas also includes the
price of some shore excursions in its rate dependent on the
cruise.
The cruise brochure will clearly state what is included in the
price. If you have a question regarding what is included in
your rate ask your travel agent.
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2.5 What's an air/sea package ?
Air/sea packages provide round trip air transportation from a
number of gateway cities to the port of embarkation,
transfers to and from the ship and luggage handling included
in the cruise price.
Not all cruises include air/sea packages. Often cruise only
agency pricing does not include air.
If you opt not to use the cruise lines air arrangements they
will discount the cruise price, usually by about $500 per
passenger, for a Caribbean cruise. If you can negotiate air
fare for less than the airfare credit, by all means do so, but
remember you are responsible for getting from the airport to
the pier and back after your trip. Include the cost of taxi or
bus fare when figuring if this is a way to save a few dollars.
Many times for passengers coming great distance a free
nights hotel lodging may be included prior to the cruise.
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2.6 How do I pick a cabin ?
This question brings to mind the old real estate slogan ,
location, location , location. Cabin layout varies from ship to
ship. Newer ships have a more block layout with each cabin
deck having two main passageways with cabins on either
side. The majority of cabins are identical in amenities
regardless of their location on the ship.
One comment you will often here is "Don't worry about the
cabin, because you won't spend much time in it." This may
vary with the cruise and individual preference. In very warm
climates the cabin air conditioning may offer some respite
from the heat. If you like to get away for an afternoon of
quiet reading or want to lounge in your p.j.s till noon you
may want to book a larger cabin. If you want to party till you
drop and just need a bed a small cabin may be your
preference.
Outside cabins are higher in price than inside. A general rule
is the higher up in deck the higher price the cabin. Each ship
offers a variety of levels of cabins, more expensive cabins
may have more square footage, a balcony, mini fridge and
bathtubs. When deciding on a cabin determine how much
time you will spend there and if the additional cost features
like a balcony are important to you. Is this a super special
occasion ? Do you want to pull out all the stops ? Are you on
a very limited budget ? Once you have an idea which features
you would like and your budget you can narrow your
selection.
The main choice is inside cabin vs. outside. Outside cabins
offer a window and the benefit of knowing when its
daylight. Inside cabins are usually identical to the outside
cabin with a mirror or curtains where the window would be.
Inside cabins are less expensive and offer the same facilities
and cabin service as outside cabins but make some folks
claustrophobic. On newer ships (as an estimate, built after
1980), inside and outside cabins tend to be similarly sized.
However, on converted ocean liners the outside cabins are
almost always larger.
Cabins at the bow or aft ship are sometimes also less
expensive due to space limitations imposed by the ships
structure. On the other hand you may be lucky and benefit
from the curve of the ship and get a little larger, sort of pie
shaped cabin in this area. Check the deck plan in the
brochure it will give you a limited idea of how the ship
builders handled this. Another disadvantage to bow and aft
cabins can be noise, either from the ships anchors (bow) or
engines (aft).
If you fear sea sickness book a cabin that is nearest midship,
the center of the ship has less pitch, (its a matter of physics).
(The ships medical center is almost always located where the
ship is most stable. )
Check the location of the jogging deck, dining room disco
and the ships public rooms. Today's ships are pretty well
sound proofed but if you are a light sleeper you may want to
avoid cabins directly below or above public areas and below
the promenade. Stairs are another consideration, ships are
equipped with elevators, but they are small and not always
convenient. If you have trouble negotiating steps you may
want to book a cabin nearer the public rooms. Cabins with
bathtubs may pose problems for people who find getting in
and out of them difficult.
In addition check the bed arrangements of the cabin you are
considering. The majority of cabins have twin beds, although
the newer ships now allow these to be pushed together to
form a "queen". If a double bed is important make sure you
request a cabin with one.
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2.7 Is the ship handicap-accessible ?
Most modern ships are fully accessible to physically
challenged individuals and have a limited number of wheel
chair accessible cabins. The cruise industry is just catching
up in this respect. The very newest ships (built since 1992)
have, for the most part, fully accessible cabins. Wheel chair
accessible on older vessels means that the doors are wide
enough for a wheel chair to enter the cabin. Many ships have
steps up into the cabin bathroom and/or shower even in these
cabins. Ask your travel agent when you book to insure the
cabin will meet your needs. Reconfirming this a couple of
weeks before your trip to avoid any mix ups is also a good
idea.
Holland America Line will allow service animals aboard
their ships if notified when you book your cruise. Again
reconfirming this before you go is a good idea.
Shore excursions may not be fully accessible and if it is
necessary to tender in a port you may not be able board the
tenders.
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2.8 What should I pack ?
The rule of thumb is pack what you think you need, go to the
bank and get as much money as your think you will need.
Now, take out half of what you packed and go to the bank
and get twice as much money and you'll have everything you
really need !
What to pack depends on the cruise line, your destination and
the time of year. The cruise brochure will give you a good
idea on what type of clothing you'll need. Generally during
the day people wear resort type casual clothing. If your cruise
is to a warm weather destination include swim wear and
beach cover-ups.
Evenings vary from casual to formal. Make sure to pack a
pair of comfortable shoes for shore excursions. A light
sweater or jacket may be useful for cool evenings. If cruising
to Alaska, coats and gloves may be needed. Some churches
and cathedrals will not admit persons in shorts or women in
pants. Check into your destination and pack accordingly.
Again, make sure any valuables, prescription medication,
breakable items and personal documents are packed in your
carry-on luggage.
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Subject:
3. Food Glorious Food !
3.1 Can I really eat 12 times a day ?
Yes you can, cruise ships are deservedly famous for their
food. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner in the formal dining
room. Breakfast and lunch buffets by the pool. Tea in the
afternoon, midnight buffets and room service. On almost all
ships there is food available 24 hours a day.
With regard to room service, of course the food is without
charge. Usually there will be a limited room service menu
form which you may order. The room service hours will be
posted on the menu, many ships offer room service 24 hours
a day. You might also be able to have regular meals in your
cabin at meal time. If this service is available it is not
usually widely advertised. Remember at peak hours when
the kitchen is very busy room service may be a bit slow.
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3.2 I'm on a special diet.
Inform your travel agent when you book , most cruise lines
have no problem accommodating all types of special diets.
Cruise lines now also offer "heart smart" , vegetarian and
diet options on most of their menus. The best way to insure
that your dietary requirements will be met by the line is to
inform them when you book and to follow up by checking
again when you receive your cruise documents. (Normally 2
weeks before you sail.)
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3.3 What about the kids ?
Lines like Premier, cater especially to families and offer
children's menus and portions. Other lines have special kids
programs as well and varied menus, there is so much food on
a cruise no one goes hungry. Pizza, pasta, burgers and fries
are often served to the kids while Mom and Dad have lobster
or steak.
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3.4 Do I really have to dress for dinner ?
Of all the things about cruising, the *suggested* dress code
has got to be one of the most controversial. The dress code
on a ship varies from line to line as well. Some lines are
more formal than others.
The cruise brochure should list the dress code for the ship.
Generally during the day shorts and casual resort wear are
typical. It is considered polite for women to wear a cover up
over their swim suits and men to wear a shirt when inside.
Shoes and shirts are required in the dining room for breakfast
and lunch.
The evening dress code varies each night. On a 7 night cruise
there are normally 3 casual, 2 informal and 2 formal nights.
Just what this means depends on the formality of the cruise
line. In general, casual means slacks and no tie for the men
and slacks or skirts for women. Informal nights are sport
coats for men , skirts or slacks for the women. Formal nights
can be very dressy, dark suits or tuxes for men, cocktail or
evening wear for women. Some folks go all out, other
people wear normal business attire on the formal nights.
This should be another criteria for which cruise you choose.
If you really hate ties or nylons look into something like a
barefoot cruise or a more informal cruise line like Carnival.
Select a cruise where you will feel comfortable dressing
reasonably close to the standard suggested attire.
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3.5 Is there room service ?
Yes, almost all cruise lines provide room service with no
charge. Room service menus offer a limited selection of
items depending on the cruise line.
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3.6 Can we celebrate a special occasion ?
Definitely, tell the maitre'd of your request and he/she will
try to accommodate you. Cakes for birthdays, a special bottle
of champagne in the cabin, a small cocktail party. Cakes are
provided without charge. Cocktail parties will charge for
liquor and on some ships hors d'oeuvres if prepared specially
for your group. If possible, inform your travel agent when
you book to allow for any special arrangements you would
like to make.
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3.7 Can I smoke in the dining room, and anywhere else on the
ship ?
As the campaign against smoking is very strong, especially in
the US., more and more ships are instituting no-smoking
policies in the dining and show rooms. Presently on the
majority of ships, the dining room will be separated into two
sections for smokers and non-smokers. Request which you
prefer on your dining room reservation. Show rooms are also
normally divided into smoking, nonsmoking sections as well.
Cigars and pipes are not allowed in the dining room and
some ships have separate smoking lounges for cigar and pipe
smokers.
Some lines are now offering non-smoking cabins as well.
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3.8 Which seating should I choose early or late?
That depends on your preference and lifestyle. Unless you
are on a ship with single or open seating dining, you'll have
to select which time you would prefer. Late seating is good
for late risers and folks who like to stay up at night. Some
people feel that the later seating is more leisurely since you
don't need to clear the dining room for the next group. The
same food is served at both seating. Late seating breakfast
will allow you to sleep in longer.
Normally families with children select early seating and
some lines will try to discourage children at the late seating.
One disadvantage to early seating is that you're normally
getting ready for dinner when you leave port. This can make
for a crunch in time if you're late getting back from a tour. If
you prefer to turn in early, early seating can give you time
for the shows or a hand or two in the casino.
3.8a Should I choose a cruise with single seating ?
Some of the smaller cruise ships and those in the "luxury"
class offer a single seating as a perquisite. In these single
seatings, you are still assigned a table, but have a multi-hour
period in which you can choose to arrive. (Typically, the
double seatings have narrow arrival windows and everyone
sits down and leaves together.) This is particularly attractive
if you're on a cruise with many port of call (such as Europe)
where shore excursions return late -- you won't miss a meal
or have to make special arrangements. The single seating
does have a disadvantage in that your tablemates may arrive
at odd times during your meal, disrupting the flow of service
and conversation at your table. And, depending on the line, a
single seating dining room may be more crowded and hectic.
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3.9 We don't like the people were sitting with, what can we do?
Do I have to sit with strangers ?
If you are truly unhappy with your dining companions speak
to the maitre'd of the dining room. Explain that you are
incompatible with your table mates and would like a change.
He will be happy to discretely accommodate a change in
table for you if at all possible. If the ship is at capacity this
might mean being flexible enough to change dinner seating
or table size. The cruise line wants you to be happy, don't
hesitate to ask if something is bothering you.
One of the nicest things about cruising is your fellow
cruisers. We're a great bunch ! Some people keep in touch
years after they've met on a cruise. You may find your dinner
companions one of the highlights of your trip. That said,
most ships offer a variety of table sizes from 2 to 10. When
you fill out your dining request form, you request a table size
as well. Due to space and personnel limitations in the dining
room not everyone can have a table for two, but the cruise
line will try to honor your request.
(continued in part 2 of 2)
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John Davis | jbd...@nando.net
Cary, North Carolina | http://www.webcom.com/~jbd/
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