Rave is dead
A.R. Distefano
> seem to think that by putting a popular kiddies TV theme (Sesame Street,
> Trumpton)- or buy stealing a guitar riff or vocal sample from other styles of
> music - and putting it over the same bass line, it makes the songs different
> and interesting. It dosen't - it just shows an incredible lack of imagination.
> The only people who listen to it are either airheads or E-heads and are so
> fickle that they will throw themselves under the next bandwagon that rolls
> along and forget rave ever existed (or pretend they didn't like it in the first
> place to cover up their embaressment). Will rave throw up a classic song that
> will be remembered in 20 years time - I doubt it. I'm not anti-dance, it's just
> I'd like to hear dance music that has a bit of a tune and that you can
> appreciate without being in a club and out of your head (like 70's disco
> music).
> Love and Kisses, Alex
MR. SPACELY
>> Rave is music for retards. It's mindless, tuneless, repetitive crap. DJ's
>> seem to think that by putting a popular kiddies TV theme (Sesame Street,
>> Trumpton)- or buy stealing a guitar riff or vocal sample from other styles of
>> music - and putting it over the same bass line, it makes the songs different
>> and interesting. It dosen't - it just shows an incredible lack of imagination.
Tuneless, maybe.
Mindless? You're just not on the mighty wavelength, pal.
Repetitive crap? Is all repetition crap? Then you are prejudice against
all forms of rhythm, since lots of it is repetitive. Rhythm in music follows
from rhythms in nature (e.g., heartbeat), and it almost ALWAYS is repitious.
You are against ALL music, except maybe classical...(?)
A good song is too be heard OVER AND OVER, anyway.. sex is a repitious
motion.. etc.. etc.. there is nothing wrong with repetition!
Lack of originality, sometimes; but NEVER a lack of imagination!
It takes imagination to put any form of music as good as techno*rave together.
Such as SPEED (Speed Racer tune after the TV cartoon).. this is an awesome
piece of imagination!
>> The only people who listen to it are either airheads or E-heads and are so
>> fickle that they will throw themselves under the next bandwagon that rolls
>> along and forget rave ever existed (or pretend they didn't like it in the first
>> place to cover up their embaressment). Will rave throw up a classic song that
>> will be remembered in 20 years time - I doubt it. I'm not anti-dance, it's just
>> I'd like to hear dance music that has a bit of a tune and that you can
>> appreciate without being in a club and out of your head (like 70's disco
>> music).
Your statements are so full of stereotyping and/or prejudice that I can't
believe I am giving you any attention at all. It'd be better if you kept
your bullsh!t to yourself.
>
>> Love and Kisses, Alex
*smack*
BTW, what kind of music do YOU listen to?
And, also, if you don't DJ or make music (or play an instrument), then
you have NO authority in cutting down those who have the IMAGINATION and
CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY to do!!!
Pete Hartman
>Lack of originality, sometimes; but NEVER a lack of imagination!
>It takes imagination to put any form of music as good as techno*rave together.
>Such as SPEED (Speed Racer tune after the TV cartoon).. this is an awesome
>piece of imagination!
There is imaginitive techno. SPEED does not qualify. Any wonk with a
sampler can listen to Sesame's Treet and think of a myriad of different
sources for samples and regurgitate basically the same crap over and
over. That is not imagination.
And I do make music, so don't be givin me no crap about "if you don't
do it, shut up".
--
Pete Hartman Bradley University p...@bradley.bradley.edu
Haazavaa?
MR. SPACELY
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From: u2...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: RE: Rave is dead
In-reply-to: <01GUCEC6F...@Jetson.UH.EDU> from "MR. SPACELY" at Feb 5,
93 01:00:21 am
To: COSC...@Jetson.UH.EDU (MR. SPACELY)
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>
> Path: rosie.uh.edu!cosc18px
> From: cosc...@rosie.uh.edu (MR. SPACELY)
> Newsgroups: alt.rave
> Subject: Re: Rave is dead
> Summary: Rave is shit
> Date: 5 Feb 1993 01:00 CST
> Distribution: world
> Keywords:
> Message-ID: <5FEB1993...@rosie.uh.edu>
> References: <C1xHt...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
> Organization: University of Houston
> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
>
> In article <C1xHt...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>, u2...@csc.liv.ac.uk (A.R. Distefano) writes...
> >> Rave is music for retards. It's mindless, tuneless, repetitive crap. DJ's
> >> seem to think that by putting a popular kiddies TV theme (Sesame Street,
> >> Trumpton)- or buy stealing a guitar riff or vocal sample from other styles of
> ^^^[KIBO WANNABE!]
> >> music - and putting it over the same bass line, it makes the songs different
> >> and interesting. It dosen't - it just shows an incredible lack of imagination.
>
> Tuneless, maybe.
> Mindless? You're just not on the mighty wavelength, pal.
> Repetitive crap? Is all repetition crap? Then you are prejudice against
> all forms of rhythm, since lots of it is repetitive. Rhythm in music follows
> from rhythms in nature (e.g., heartbeat), and it almost ALWAYS is repitious.
> You are against ALL music, except maybe classical...(?)
> A good song is too be heard OVER AND OVER, anyway.. sex is a repitious
> motion.. etc.. etc.. there is nothing wrong with repetition!
>
> Lack of originality, sometimes; but NEVER a lack of imagination!
> It takes imagination to put any form of music as good as techno*rave together.
> Such as SPEED (Speed Racer tune after the TV cartoon).. this is an awesome
> piece of imagination!
>
> >> The only people who listen to it are either airheads or E-heads and are so
> >> fickle that they will throw themselves under the next bandwagon that rolls
> >> along and forget rave ever existed (or pretend they didn't like it in the first
> >> place to cover up their embaressment). Will rave throw up a classic song that
> >> will be remembered in 20 years time - I doubt it. I'm not anti-dance, it's just
> >> I'd like to hear dance music that has a bit of a tune and that you can
> >> appreciate without being in a club and out of your head (like 70's disco
> >> music).
>
> Your statements are so full of stereotyping and/or prejudice that I can't
> believe I am giving you any attention at all. It'd be better if you kept
> your bullsh!t to yourself.
>
> >
> >> Love and Kisses, Alex
>
> *smack*
>
> BTW, what kind of music do YOU listen to?
> And, also, if you don't DJ or make music (or play an instrument), then
> you have NO authority in cutting down those who have the IMAGINATION and
> CREATIVITY/ORIGINALITY to do!!!
>
ALEX'S REPLY:
-------------
> Thank you for your incredibly constructive critisism. The fact that you didn't
> properly answer any of the points I made means that there is at least some
> basis for my argument that rave is shit. I do play an instrument (guitar)
> and am incredibly annoyed when I see some non-musical person (as rave DJ's
> are) rip off somebody else's hard work. You say I've got prejudice against
> rhythm - not true, I just like listening to a rhythm that goes somewhere. You
> use a heartbeat as an example of nature's rhythm - would you want to listen to
> a heartbeat for 6 hours ?
> And why do you hide behind a stupid pseudonym ?
I'm not hiding, smartie. Does it matter? Are you being subjective?
You are quite a subjective and prejudice guy.
> Actually, the only reason I put the article in in the first place was to
> deliberately outrage ravers, and as you Americans wouldn't know irony if it
> came up to you and kicked in you in the nuts - I'm not surprised at your
> predictable response.
See? Stereotyping Americans, eh?
I supposed you'll be going to r.m.i. and flaming them soon?
> I challenge you to name me one rave track that means something to someone
> other than to convulse madly to. Rave music lacks heart and soul and displays
> no emotion evident in virtually all other types of music - love, hate, loss,
> depression, social commentary, etc. As it is I'm afraid you're the one that is
> full of shit.
Yeah, and WE LOVE IT, so piss off! No-lyrics practically defines techno*rave!
That's why it's there. To get away from the emotional-phuq-ups like yourself
once in a while. It's full of energy, and dance, and LIFE! Why does music
have to make sense? As Byrne says, "STOP MAKING SENSE!" Mr. P.C.
> See ya, Alex
> BTW, not that it matters but I listen to everything bar poser soft metal.
POSER!
nc31...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
I am reading this, and I do not really understand what the problem is.
To me, it sounds like you don't like rave, and that is OK, but to take your
own opinion and make it out to be "the way it is" is ridiculous.
Let me read this again......
I am not retarded, and I like rave music. I am also not mindless or on any
kind of drug. Most of the time, (at least now), I listen to it in my bedroom
while getting ready for class. I don't think that sampling shows a lack of
imagination, although that is debatable. I like hearing familiar things in
new songs. I do not really appreciate the songs that sample things from TV
shows - that gets tedious.
I am definately not an airhead, or an e-head. Making comments about the
kind of people that YOU see waving and raving can not place us all in one
group.
I do not know whether I will throw myself on the next "bandwagon" that rolls
around, but I know that I find something in rave music. I find it to be a
stress reliever when I am upset. If another form of music rolls around that
makes me feel the way rave does, I will be impressed. I will never pretend
that I didn't like it. That would be like all of the hippies pretending they
didn't enjoy Woodstock.
I doubt if rave will produce a classic song that will be remembered in 20
years, but neither does today's top 40. Who is worried about a rave song being
remembered forever? Rave to me is about living for the moment.
My friend, Gene, is a rave DJ. He is also in a techno band. They use samples,
but they use computer generated samples that they have created. And yes, they
play instruments. He plays keyboards.
Some techno music does have a tune, for instance, (from the top of my head)
"It's just a feeling" by Terrorize. Some of it is noise. Don't knock rave
because you can't hear the music in it.
It's nice that you play guitar, but that does not make you the spokesperson
for anti-rave. I have a friend in Canada that literally likes all kind of
music (classical, alternative, metal, opera, world), but he is very open
minded and receptive to everything.
Hey, I still have my Bee Gee's Greatest Hits album, and I also have songs by
Interactive and X Marks the Pedwalk. If you don't like rave music, find
better reasons than YOU don't think it has music, and taking the low road
to insult the people who listen to it. I don't hear anyone asking you if
you still wear bellbottoms. :)
Oh yeah, those are ok for rave parties!
Thanks for the love and the kisses, but you can keep them.
Stephani Nichelle
Computer major, WVNCC.
GPA: 3.75 *
~|~
|
Peace.
Craig.Stodolenak
>> In article <C1xHt...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>, u2...@csc.liv.ac.uk (A.R. Distefano) writes...
>> I challenge you to name me one rave track that means something to someone
>> other than to convulse madly to.
Alex, that's what I listen to techno/rave for. I enjoy the rhythms, I
enjoy the samples, and bar none... it is the aural input of choice for
me. When I hear it, I can barely help _not_ "convulsing madly." For me,
nothing else comes close.
Personal preference.
--
Craig L. Stodolenak "In our century, we've learned not to fear words."
arc...@mixcom.com -- Uhura, ST:TOS
Daniel James Frederiksen
>>> I challenge you to name me one rave track that means something to someone
>>> other than to convulse madly to.
why bother yourself with trying to figure-out what something means. perhaps
the whole point is to convey an experience...the very concept of music
(whatevr it may be) is to do this. if i desired meaning via words or
speech...I get myself a book of poems. personally, i belive music has much
more power and appeal to convey or evoke an experience. i certainly rather
sit around (or dance) all day and listen to samples and let my own mind
wonder than listen to someone spout-off about how there's did.
Peter John Sherriff
Hate to say this but the arguement is pointless, Rave is NOT DEAD otherwise there
would be no RAVE scene anywhere. Seeems a simple enough arguement to kill from
where I sit, but then people can get on their high horse over nothing.
Not all people into RAVE are air-heads or E-heads... I love RAVING and
yet am a member of MENSA (I suppose you've heard of that?!?) and have never
been interested in drugs. RAVE is more than that, it's about the people, the
music and the atmosphere.
For a REAL RAVE scene try Manchester clubs, or some of the other clubs
thereabouts, I guess most of you can't but I live there (Blessed or what?!?)
I guess those simple, but true, points should end this arguement for a while.
(btw Why when someone criticises RAVE do all the different RAVE factions
jump at the chance to damn and condemn every type of RAVE but their own.
Seems to me like you guys need to calm down and enjoy life as well as music!)
Thanks for memories - You were fun for a while,
BUT the inter-group trashing is just boring
Pete.
P.S. - Anyone know of ANYWHERE I can get hold of the 12" of
Raving, I'm Raving - (By Shut up and Dance)?
Cheers all
JOHN RAINBOW HUMPHREY
In article <1993Feb8.1...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, nc31...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
Path: taco!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms.wvnet.edu!nc312472
From: nc31...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rave
Subject: Re: Rave is dead....NOT!
Message-ID: <1993Feb8.1...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>
Date: 8 Feb 93 16:26:57 EST
References: <C1xHt...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing
Lines: 76
In article <C1xHt...@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk>, u2...@csc.liv.ac.uk (A.R. Distefano) writes:
>> Rave is music for retards. It's mindless, tuneless, repetitive crap. DJ's
>> seem to think that by putting a popular kiddies TV theme (Sesame Street,
>> Trumpton)- or buy stealing a guitar riff or vocal sample from other styles of
>> music - and putting it over the same bass line, it makes the songs different
>> and interesting. It dosen't - it just shows an incredible lack of imagination.
>> The only people who listen to it are either airheads or E-heads and are so
>> fickle that they will throw themselves under the next bandwagon that rolls
>> along and forget rave ever existed (or pretend they didn't like it in the first
>> place to cover up their embaressment). Will rave throw up a classic song that
>> will be remembered in 20 years time - I doubt it. I'm not anti-dance, it's just
>> I'd like to hear dance music that has a bit of a tune and that you can
>> appreciate without being in a club and out of your head (like 70's disco
>> music).
>
>> Love and Kisses, Alex
I agree I am extremely stupid and I like rave. I go to raves all the time
because I think I will will cool. I have no life of my own. I just want people
to like me. I also have no rythm and that is why techno is perfect for me.
That is why I wear the funky clothes that I so often do at raves. I also have
no rythm and that is why techno is perfect for me.
Everyone knows that if you want to pick up girls, you should go to a rave.
That is why I go. I love to take E's. I sometimes take 7 or 8 a night so that
the feeling will last longer. I love it, and when the DJ yells to the crowd:
'ARE READY TO RAVE?' then I say 'YEAH!' and he says 'OK, LET'S RAVE' and
everybody screams very loud. Once I went to a rave and had so much fun because
I was so drunk and was throwing up everywhere...wait, did you say rave? I
thought you said grave. I meant that I like to hang out at graveyards and
get drunk. Yeah, that's what I meant. What is a rave anyway? They sound fun...
If anyone knows of any good magazines to look for a rave, could they tell me
of one? I subscribe to Time, The National Enquirer, and other excellent sources
of information. I also frequently watch HardCopy, and A Current Affair.
Are they good sources of info? I think so. I think their stories are very
well done...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
big...@crap.school
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS. I did not make this up. I read it on a box of life cereal. As Mike.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
John Humphrey
(bjmi...@eos.ncsu.edu)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
yogesh angrish
>Stephani Nichelle
>Computer major, WVNCC.
>GPA: 3.75 *
> ~|~
> |
>Peace.
Oh boy!..... that turns me on! ;-)
--
Promises are like babies.....
........easy to make...tuff to deliver.
Stephen Quigg
|>
|> Hate to say this but the arguement is pointless, Rave is NOT DEAD otherwise there
|> would be no RAVE scene anywhere. Seeems a simple enough arguement to kill from
|> where I sit, but then people can get on their high horse over nothing.
|>
Manchester was one of the main places the drug/violence link grew .....
|> Not all people into RAVE are air-heads or E-heads... I love RAVING and
|> yet am a member of MENSA (I suppose you've heard of that?!?) and have never
|> been interested in drugs. RAVE is more than that, it's about the people, the
|> music and the atmosphere.
|>
Hey ! Your in Mensa .... wow , heck , my friends got a Phd and used to
love raves .... gee , I bet that makes all the STUPID people want to start going
, so they can say how INTELLIGENT they are ....
Taste in music has nothing to do with intelligence shithead ....
|> For a REAL RAVE scene try Manchester clubs, or some of the other clubs
|> thereabouts, I guess most of you can't but I live there (Blessed or what?!?)
|>
Duh ..... how can you have a real rave in a club ... you've obviously
never been near a REAL rave.
|> I guess those simple, but true, points should end this arguement for a while.
|>
What , that was it ???
I thought you were in Mensa .... surely you could have made some valuable and
intelligent points , but your just a sheep .
Baaaaaahhh!
|> (btw Why when someone criticises RAVE do all the different RAVE factions
|> jump at the chance to damn and condemn every type of RAVE but their own.
|> Seems to me like you guys need to calm down and enjoy life as well as music!)
|>
I was calm ... until your posting made me want to shout at you :-)
|> Thanks for memories - You were fun for a while,
|> BUT the inter-group trashing is just boring
|>
Gee .... I must be silly , I enjoy it.
|>
|> Pete.
|>
|>
|> P.S. - Anyone know of ANYWHERE I can get hold of the 12" of
|> Raving, I'm Raving - (By Shut up and Dance)?
|>
Yeah ! Real rave music (it has rave in the title)
Apologies to all who like this record , but here in the UK , it sums up a whole
genre of people ...
I'm not trying to start another "I hate rave" campaign , but I feel this
describess the sort of person who spoiled it all.
|> Cheers all
You're welcome :-)
--
Stephen Quigg
squ...@gssec.bt.co.uk
British Telecom , Group Software Engineering and Development
(Disclaimer : "Yoga Flame !")
*------------------------ Extended re-mix post ----------------------*
Samu Z.T.C Mielonen .... read your E-mail . it may just save your lamb chops :-)
Thomas Grant Edwards
>There is imaginitive techno. SPEED does not qualify. Any wonk with a
>sampler can listen to Sesame's Treet and think of a myriad of different
>sources for samples and regurgitate basically the same crap over and
>over. That is not imagination.
>And I do make music, so don't be givin me no crap about "if you don't
>do it, shut up".
Yeah, but RAVE is not music!
It is the Vibe!
If stinking THUMP THUMP THUMPS reach into your brain
and throws your body around on the dance floor
and you leave the warehouse happy you came
Then it doesn't matter if you were listening to Mozart or the
Smart-E's...
I like techno because it is so anonymous, fluid, a thin laquer.
Little of it is real music (IMHO), but it is fabric, woven
together by a good DJ to spontaneously ignite the
dance-trance.
A few songs (I think of Prodigy "Jericho") will stand on their
own as quality stuff, but most will dissapear down into the
vinyl hell. Who cares! If the vibe is there, the dance moves you,
that is all you need to Rave...
-Thomas
resident technoshaman
Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B)
>Yeah, but RAVE is not music!
>
> It is the Vibe!
>
>If stinking THUMP THUMP THUMPS reach into your brain
> and throws your body around on the dance floor
> and you leave the warehouse happy you came
>Then it doesn't matter if you were listening to Mozart or the
> Smart-E's...
>
>I like techno because it is so anonymous, fluid, a thin laquer.
>Little of it is real music (IMHO), but it is fabric, woven
>together by a good DJ to spontaneously ignite the
>dance-trance.
>
>A few songs (I think of Prodigy "Jericho") will stand on their
>own as quality stuff, but most will dissapear down into the
>vinyl hell. Who cares! If the vibe is there, the dance moves you,
>that is all you need to Rave...
Whoa, wait just a sec... there are _lots_ of songs that can stand on their
own and merit searching after, at least when I hear them at a rave. I've
been looking for "Mighty Ming" by Brother Luv Dubs, despite the fact that
I have it on three different mix tapes.
If a song is shite to begin with, there's not a WHOLE lot the DJ can
do to improve it. If the song has potential, the DJ can make it sound
great by throwing another song behind it with a little more oomph, (also
on one of these tapes is DTR's "How Many Times", which has a great vocal
part but a semi-weak melody/beat, and Garth backed it with some terrifically
acidic monster) and the really "tricky" DJ's will scratch or sample from
a record while the others are playing... but if it all melds together and
one song is indistinguishable from the next, that sounds kinda boring to
me :)
Maybe that's one difference between SF DJ's and east coast DJ's - out here,
most of them seem to have their greatest strength be song selection, and
most of the time they fade between one track and the next (EXACTLY on time
and a very gradual fade, say, of a minute at least) rather than being super-
tricky on the turntables. An exception to this is Carlos, an ex-hip-hop
DJ who just goes OFF when he's playing - he'll often have fun with two copies
of the same record going on both turntables, either exactly in time or one
two beats behind the other. He messes up occasionally, but when he gets it
down he's bouncing up and down with the rest of us... he's actually more
fun to watch than to listen to :)
But back to the point... there is SO MUCH music I hear at raves that could
easily stand alone as a good song. And I seemed to be condemned to that
peculiar hell of making myself search for them all until the day I die... :)
Brian
Daniel DuBois
Apparently, neither does the ability to post.
-Dan
Stephen Quigg
|> kind of drug. Most of the time, (at least now), I listen to it in my bedroom
|> while getting ready for class.
Jeez ... at least most people who post up here trying to say "The
Smart-E's" are good usually means at 30,000Watts music power.
Listening to them at normal 'room-sized' volumes is pretty Low quality
arguments I'm afraid ....
|> I am definately not an airhead, or an e-head. Making comments about the
|> kind of people that YOU see waving and raving can not place us all in one
|> group.
|>
But I thought you say you don't go to raves , you just get 'hyped' (ha!)
in your bedroom , so don't try and call yourself a 'raver' , at least the ravers
who post here actually go to some , they don't pretend.
|> I do not know whether I will throw myself on the next "bandwagon" that rolls
|> around, but I know that I find something in rave music. I find it to be a
|> stress reliever when I am upset. If another form of music rolls around that
|> makes me feel the way rave does, I will be impressed. I will never pretend
|> that I didn't like it. That would be like all of the hippies pretending they
|> didn't enjoy Woodstock.
|>
DON'T EVEN TRY and compare disposable rave music to the stuff people got
off on in the sixties ....
|> My friend, Gene, is a rave DJ. He is also in a techno band. They use samples,
|> but they use computer generated samples that they have created. And yes, they
|> play instruments. He plays keyboards.
|>
Wooaah Mummy ! A musician !
|> Some techno music does have a tune, for instance, (from the top of my head)
|> "It's just a feeling" by Terrorize. Some of it is noise. Don't knock rave
|> because you can't hear the music in it.
|>
Err .... there isn't any in 'Just a feeling' , there is just the classic
four note riff all the way through.
(incidently , this isn't an insult to Terrorize , it's just the way
rave music is , and a lot of house , (and rock ..))
|> It's nice that you play guitar, but that does not make you the spokesperson
|> for anti-rave. I have a friend in Canada that literally likes all kind of
|> music (classical, alternative, metal, opera, world), but he is very open
|> minded and receptive to everything.
|>
What is this trying to infer ? Quite a lot of people in this newsgroup
listen to varied types of music ..... are you implying that your friend is a GOD
because he listens to more than "Trip To Trumpton" ????
|> Hey, I still have my Bee Gee's Greatest Hits album, and I also have songs by
|> Interactive and X Marks the Pedwalk. If you don't like rave music, find
|> better reasons than YOU don't think it has music, and taking the low road
|> to insult the people who listen to it. I don't hear anyone asking you if
|> you still wear bellbottoms. :)
|>
Why ?? Bellbottoms are very stylish among Clubbers , so you really are
out of touch aren't you ....
I bet you wear tight stretch jeans :-)
|> Oh yeah, those are ok for rave parties!
|>
What is a 'rave' party .... is it going to someones house and then
saying "Yeah , I was at a rave at the weekend" ??
|> Thanks for the love and the kisses, but you can keep them.
|>
What happened to the Love Generation ?
|> Stephani Nichelle
|> Computer major, WVNCC.
|> GPA: 3.75 *
|> ~|~
|> |
|> Peace.
That's what I like , a man with REAL attitude :-)
--
Anyone with Trumpton gripes can e-mail me ... I don't want another NET outrage ,
or I'll just run to mummy crying .....
Peter John Sherriff
In article <1993Feb11.0...@gssec.bt.co.uk>,
squ...@gssec.bt.co.uk (Stephen Quigg) writes:
>THERE IS NO RAVE SCENE IN BRITAIN. Get a grip boy ! It died because
>Manchester was one of the main places the drug/violence link grew .....
Been to Manchester lately then have we? I live there so I think I should probably
know fairly well whether there is a scene there. Really hate to contradict you
like this but you are WRONG, dead WRONG! There is a RAVE scene in Britain, it
just seems to me that you don't look in the right places for it.
Take some advice and stick to the things you know about, seems like Britain's
RAVE seen is not exactly your forte, but then...
>Taste in music has nothing to do with intelligence shithead ....
Shows your lack of intelligence, if you'd understood the thread of the article
you'd have realised I was merely pointing out that not everyone who goes to
RAVEs is an airhead, but then seems you intend to prove me wrong doesn't it?
>Duh ..... how can you have a real rave in a club ... you've obviously
>never been near a REAL rave.
Matter of fact I've been to a fair few RAVEs, usually abroad. But you can
still RAVE in a club as RAVE is a whole atmosphere not just a sound, it's about
so much more than just the music...maybe you've never been to a decent club
or the people there have the same kind of intellect as you. Want to help me
out on that one?
>I was calm ... until your posting made me want to shout at you :-)
Glad to hear it, the more the merrier I guess, seems odd though that someone
with such an "exclusive" knowledge of the RAVE scene hadn't thrown in his
tuppence worth before. Ah well seems that it takes a lot to wind up the
people who know least then...
>Yeah ! Real rave music (it has rave in the title)
>
>Apologies to all who like this record , but here in the UK , it sums up a whole
>genre of people ...
>
>I'm not trying to start another "I hate rave" campaign , but I feel this
>describess the sort of person who spoiled it all.
Ah well, if that's how high you value this particular genre of RAVE, then
your taste is different. (Hang on isn't this inter-genre bitching something
I've hinted at before?) Just because people's RAVE taste is different then
why does that require sarcasm (the LOWEST form of wit (similar to your
intelligence perhaps?? - Answers on a postcard to....))
How do you spoil RAVE, if as you claim it's such an individual thing anyway?
Here in the UK, people liked Raving, I'm Raving because it was a good song,
any song I suppose could sum up a whole genre of people - I can't say what
genre your article puts you in as offensive language need not be used as a
reply to an article.
TTFN - Me again!
Stephen Quigg
|>
|> >THERE IS NO RAVE SCENE IN BRITAIN. Get a grip boy ! It died because
|> >Manchester was one of the main places the drug/violence link grew .....
|>
|> Been to Manchester lately then have we? I live there so I think I should probably
|> know fairly well whether there is a scene there.
Do you ? What do youy consider a rave scene ? 500 people in a
warehouse of your choice , or 20,000 people all marching to the same piper ?
|> There is a RAVE scene in Britain, it
|> just seems to me that you don't look in the right places for it.
|>
I don't need to look for a 'rave' scene , I watched it die a horrible
and painfull death , and from what I've been reading over the net about the
states, they're beginning to sense it happening there ....
|> Take some advice and stick to the things you know about, seems like Britain's
|> RAVE seen is not exactly your forte, but then...
|>
Once again I'll say that I used to be a warehouse sort-a-guy (:-) , but
it all went horribly wrong when 'raves' were advertised in the newspapers ...
|> >Taste in music has nothing to do with intelligence ....
|> Shows your lack of intelligence, if you'd understood the thread of the article
|> you'd have realised I was merely pointing out that not everyone who goes to
|> RAVEs is an airhead, but then seems you intend to prove me wrong doesn't it?
|>
If I posted up that I was a member of 'mensa' , then I would sure as
hell expect some crap for it .... face it , there are few things more elitist
than posting up that you're a member of a group for 'gifted' children .
|> Matter of fact I've been to a fair few RAVEs, usually abroad. But you can
|> still RAVE in a club as RAVE is a whole atmosphere not just a sound, it's about
|> so much more than just the music...maybe you've never been to a decent club
|> or the people there have the same kind of intellect as you. Want to help me
|> out on that one?
|>
AAARGH ! You just said basically that most of the raves you've ever been
to have been abroad ....... yet one minute ago you were talking about the
BRITISH rave scene , but NO , you have to go abroad for them ....
A 'rave' has little to do with an atmosphere , it is (was ??) all about
doing something a bit dangerous , ie. holding it in the middle of the night in a
field , or dancing away in some god-forsaken industrial estate , knowing sure as
hell you had to get as much dancing as possible in before the police came and
threw you out.
Tell me .... how can this compare to a club ?
|> >I was calm ... until your posting made me want to shout at you :-)
|>
|> Glad to hear it, the more the merrier I guess, seems odd though that someone
|> with such an "exclusive" knowledge of the RAVE scene hadn't thrown in his
|> tuppence worth before. Ah well seems that it takes a lot to wind up the
|> people who know least then...
|>
Here we go again ... it just gets so boring :-(
Obviously I have no idea of the scene in Scotland/ The North ....
yeah, right.
You obviously haven't been reading this group for long if you haven't
seen me argue about it before , but at least before I'll admit that I didn't
grasp what some of the people I was arguing with were trying to say , wheras
your shallow comments need no insight to determine their true worth .....
|> >I'm not trying to start another "I hate rave" campaign , but I feel this
|> >describess the sort of person who spoiled it all.
|>
|> Ah well, if that's how high you value this particular genre of RAVE, then
|> your taste is different. (Hang on isn't this inter-genre bitching something
|> I've hinted at before?) Just because people's RAVE taste is different then
|> why does that require sarcasm (the LOWEST form of wit (similar to your
|> intelligence perhaps?? - Answers on a postcard to....))
|>
When a rave was still a rave (obviously before your time) , the music
being listened to was not mindless copies of other peoples work , but original
techno , like Beltram , Digital Boy , 808 State , etc... which I can still
listen to (occassionally :-) .
Nowadays , when people talk about raves (in the UK) , they are talking
about K-Klass , Shades Of Rhythm , et all , which by the standard of the classic
techno anthems is worthless crap.
|> How do you spoil RAVE, if as you claim it's such an individual thing anyway?
|>
Who said it was an individual thing ? Your collective bunch of asshole
chart hugging sheep
spoiled the whole f***n lot for the rest of us here ....
|> Here in the UK, people liked Raving, I'm Raving because it was a good song,
|> any song I suppose could sum up a whole genre of people - I can't say what
|> genre your article puts you in as offensive language need not be used as a
|> reply to an article.
|>
Oh come on ...... a good song ? At the most it could be described as a
fast beat. (which isn't to insult the rest of the 150BPM world :-)
|>
|> TTFN - Me again!
Yeah Wow ! When I get my honors degree , am I going to post up that I
got it ?
Am I hell .....
--
Stephen Quigg
squ...@gssec.bt.co.uk
British Telecom , Group Software Engineering and Development
(Disclaimer : " Yoga Flame ! " )
PS : Sorry to all this who read this worthless "low-intelligence" shit from ,me
before , but the guy is a twat ..... :-)
Stephen Quigg
|> > Taste in music has nothing to do with intelligence shithead ....
|>
|> Apparently, neither does the ability to post.
|>
Gee Dan , one of these days I'll get some subjective criticism from you ,
rather than these hilarious one-liners you seem to excel in ....
|> -Dan
"wooah .... burn't ma fingers man !"
Robin J Green
>In article <1lg4hk...@motmot.doc.ic.ac.uk>, p...@doc.ic.ac.uk (Peter John Sherriff) writes:
>
> Do you ? What do youy consider a rave scene ? 500 people in a
>warehouse of your choice , or 20,000 people all marching to the same piper ?
>
>|> There is a RAVE scene in Britain, it
>|> just seems to me that you don't look in the right places for it.
>|>
> I don't need to look for a 'rave' scene , I watched it die a horrible
>and painfull death , and from what I've been reading over the net about the
>states, they're beginning to sense it happening there ....
>
[delete, delete, delete....]
> A 'rave' has little to do with an atmosphere , it is (was ??) all about
>doing something a bit dangerous , ie. holding it in the middle of the
>night in a field , or dancing away in some god-forsaken industrial
>estate, knowing sure as hell you had to get as much dancing as
>possible in before the police came and threw you out.
>
> Tell me .... how can this compare to a club ?
Do you know what? I hate to admit it but Squigg has got a point
here... Dangerous music in dangerous situations, living on the edge of
technology and all that self-indulgent romanticised crap, but that's
how it WAS! What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd
Weber doing rave tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to
comprehend the music. We need to educate.
I propose that DJs around the world MUST go back to the archives and
drag out classics and PLAY THE BUGGERS to the kids (admittedly at +6
or more), stuff like Pierres Phuture Phantasy Club, Humanoid "Cry
Baby", Kraftwerk "Home Computer", Niza Ebb "Join in the Chant", the
tracks that still storm and are closer to the source of the music.
(That selection was highly biased by my Acid House roots, but you get
the idea)
To quote Tron - "You don't know what it feels like until you get it
from a pure source"
Sure, play the newest whites, but please try to EDUCATE as well as
ENTERTAIN. Then we'll have a load of bubblegum ravers who KNOW that
they're listening to shite and can make up their own minds... So stop
arguing about whether it's dead or not and take on the responsability
of showing the kids how much better it was and making them want to
advance the music, not retard it.
Is that not a good solution? Better than bitching about it.
- Robin "quite inspired today" Green.
Kev says
Hear Hear
Kev.
Daniel DuBois
>drag out classics and PLAY THE BUGGERS to the kids (admittedly at +6
>or more), stuff like Pierres Phuture Phantasy Club, Humanoid "Cry
>Baby", Kraftwerk "Home Computer", Niza Ebb "Join in the Chant", the
>tracks that still storm and are closer to the source of the music.
>(That selection was highly biased by my Acid House roots, but you get
>the idea)
I still hear Nitzer Ebb's "Join in the Chant" alot at clubs, and I go to
clubs that play songs that some people on this net would call bublegum
techno. I think thats a tribute to Nitzer Ebb. Nitzer Ebb will never die.
-Dan
Lazlo Nibble
> What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd Weber doing rave
> tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to comprehend the music.
"Comprehend the music?" This is disco, not opera! What on earth is there
to "comprehend" about rave music, then or now, beyond "I give it a nine --
it's got a good beat, and I can dance to it?"
This is just utterly beyond pathetic -- people barely into their TWENTIES
starting up with the "my music was great but the stuff the KIDS TODAY
listen to is CRAP!" garbage. You have two-thirds of your life left to
live and you're already getting *bitterly nostalgic*?
--
Lazlo (la...@triton.unm.edu)
EIV...@cms.cc.wayne.edu
>r...@cs.bham.ac.uk (Robin J Green) writes:
>> What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd Weber doing rave
>> tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to comprehend the music.
>
>"Comprehend the music?" This is disco, not opera! What on earth is there
>to "comprehend" about rave music, then or now, beyond "I give it a nine --
>it's got a good beat, and I can dance to it?"
to "educate" me. Usually what I get is a lesson in how clueless they are
as to the good stuff going on these days.
Speaking of which, just what do you mean "this is disco"? :)
I happen to like the cyber/techno/sci-fi/whatever philosophy that
surrounds the GOOD techno (not that commercial crap that these kids
today listen to ;-)! ) even tho it is extremely pretentious.
I'm sorry but I cannot discount the entire musical value of the Techno
genre as being nothing more than dance music. It *is* dance music, but
there is nothing intrinsic to techno that prevents it from being good
listenable music too.
To be fair, the same goes for disco.
>This is just utterly beyond pathetic -- people barely into their TWENTIES
>starting up with the "my music was great but the stuff the KIDS TODAY
>listen to is CRAP!" garbage. You have two-thirds of your life left to
>live and you're already getting *bitterly nostalgic*?
to find the bad stuff these days IMHO. And don't try to goad me into
mentioning my age. :)
People are always going to say that their music was good and this new stuff
is crap (usually they become DJs ;-)! ). I hope *I* don't fall into that trap.
You realize, of course, that we've just raised the intellectual level of
discussion on alt.rave to a near-adult level. Next, they'll be telling us
to leave if we want to keep this up. ;-) Better pass me that new RAVE comp.
Next we'll cover why it's OK to hate a good song once you've heard it
two million times in a row.
--Eric
"No more mister nice guy"
Samu Mielonen
->Do you know what? I hate to admit it but Squigg has got a point
->here... Dangerous music in dangerous situations, living on the edge of
->technology and all that self-indulgent romanticised crap, but that's
->how it WAS! What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd
->Weber doing rave tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to
->comprehend the music. We need to educate.
*Music* for the masses, eh?
->I propose that DJs around the world MUST go back to the archives and
->drag out classics and PLAY THE BUGGERS to the kids (admittedly at +6
->or more), stuff like Pierres Phuture Phantasy Club, Humanoid "Cry
->Baby", Kraftwerk "Home Computer", Niza Ebb "Join in the Chant", the
->tracks that still storm and are closer to the source of the music.
->(That selection was highly biased by my Acid House roots, but you get
->the idea)
And to get those Frankfurt purists going try Model 500, Cybotron, Rythim
is Rythim and well... I think you get the picture. And to seriously piss
them off (serves them right every now and then) put on some Right said Fred :)
->Sure, play the newest whites, but please try to EDUCATE as well as
->ENTERTAIN. Then we'll have a load of bubblegum ravers who KNOW that
Yes, why don't you all try that? I've seen one scene turn into a battlefield
for techno tribes and it wasn't very entertaining. Here in the puny town of
Tampere (that's nowheresville to you most) the kids go wild when I put
one of my few progressive tracks on and to me that's educating after
several months of 2Unlimited-Movement-ABLogic-type or 155-180bpm-frankfurt-
909-in-yer-face-acid-nosebleed. And please note that I don't mean to diss
either of the above genres, it's just that I've been over-exposed to them
in the past. A change soon come. I hope.
->- Robin "quite inspired today" Green.
That's what it's all about. Inspiration. Don't you ever forget that y'all :)
smile,
sZm
--
f1s...@kielo.uta.fi *********** "Don't have the time."
Stephen Quigg
I wrote :
|>> > A 'rave' has little to do with an atmosphere , it is (was ??) all about
|>> >doing something a bit dangerous , ie. holding it in the middle of the
|>> >night in a field , or dancing away in some god-forsaken industrial
|>> >estate, knowing sure as hell you had to get as much dancing as
|>> >possible in before the police came and threw you out.
|>> >
|>> > Tell me .... how can this compare to a club ?
|>
|> Do you know what? I hate to admit it but Squigg has got a point
|> here... Dangerous music in dangerous situations, living on the edge of
|> technology and all that self-indulgent romanticised crap, but that's
|> how it WAS! What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd
|> Weber doing rave tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to
|> comprehend the music. We need to educate.
|>
|> I propose that DJs around the world MUST go back to the archives and
|> drag out classics and PLAY THE BUGGERS to the kids (admittedly at +6
|> or more), stuff like Pierres Phuture Phantasy Club, Humanoid "Cry
|> Baby", Kraftwerk "Home Computer", Niza Ebb "Join in the Chant", the
|> tracks that still storm and are closer to the source of the music.
|> (That selection was highly biased by my Acid House roots, but you get
|> the idea)
The problem now though , is a whole genreation of "never mind the
quality , feel the speed" sort of DJ , and I put it to you that there are very
few good DJ's left in the UK with substancial back catalogue record collections
... most of the DJ's seemed to sell out (aka Fabio & Grooverider) , or start
producing / remixing records instead (aka Andrew Weatherall , Mike Pickering ,
Noys Own , Justin Robertson , et all .....)
|>
|> To quote Tron - "You don't know what it feels like until you get it
|> from a pure source"
|>
|> Sure, play the newest whites, but please try to EDUCATE as well as
|> ENTERTAIN. Then we'll have a load of bubblegum ravers who KNOW that
|> they're listening to shite and can make up their own minds... So stop
|> arguing about whether it's dead or not and take on the responsability
|> of showing the kids how much better it was and making them want to
|> advance the music, not retard it.
|>
The problem is .... with kids the way they are nowadays , I sure as hell
don't want to talk to them , never mind try and educate them .
When I was 16-18 , I would have got real riled if someone tried to tell
me meant to do .... I think nowadays it's the case that less and less people are
prepared to stick their necks out and do what they wan't to do , they would
rather just keep their heads down and get on with their boring lifes ....
This may be because of the increase in violence / poverty / unemployment
, or whatever , but whatever it is , it's going to turn out a generation of
people who don't know their own minds anymore ....
|> Is that not a good solution? Better than bitching about it.
|>
Maybe in an ideal world man , maybe in an ideal world ..... :-(
|>
|> - Robin "quite inspired today" Green.
|>
|>
I know what you mean , it must be the Friday pub lunch !
|>
--
Stephen Quigg
squ...@gssec.bt.co.uk
British Telecom , Group Software Engineering and Development
(Disclaimer : "Don't count your drink before it's drunk" )
Paul Madden
>The problem is .... with kids the way they are nowadays , I sure as hell
>don't want to talk to them , never mind try and educate them .
>When I was 16-18 , I would have got real riled if someone tried to tell
>me meant to do.... I think nowadays it's the case that less and less people are
>prepared to stick their necks out and do what they wan't to do , they would
>rather just keep their heads down and get on with their boring lifes ....
>This may be because of the increase in violence / poverty / unemployment
>, or whatever , but whatever it is , it's going to turn out a generation of
>people who don't know their own minds anymore ....
Oh, PLEASE! When we're all too old 'n' brittle to dance like we do these
days, our kids will invent and fall in love with something funkier than we
can imagine. Every generation does it, and it'll never end. When the rave
cycle is over, it'll recede for some years and then be rediscovered, twisted
around, and infused with whatever kids are thinking about then. And it'll be
dope like anything that's been done. Kids don't change, WE change.
>|> Is that not a good solution? Better than bitching about it.
>|>
> Maybe in an ideal world man , maybe in an ideal world ..... :-(
It IS an ideal world! The only way you'll fail to see that is if you think
that the things you've done, seen and heard are the end-all-be-all of groove.
Just keep your eyes and ears open and watch what happens next. It's always
cool... Smile, and don't be so closed-minded.
Cheers,
paul
--
------| paul madden | pma...@uiuc.edu | po box 2827 champaign il 61825 |------
Samu Mielonen
->r...@cs.bham.ac.uk (Robin J Green) writes:
->> What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd Weber doing rave
->> tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to comprehend the music.
->"Comprehend the music?" This is disco, not opera! What on earth is there
->to "comprehend" about rave music, then or now, beyond "I give it a nine --
->it's got a good beat, and I can dance to it?"
->This is just utterly beyond pathetic -- people barely into their TWENTIES
->starting up with the "my music was great but the stuff the KIDS TODAY
->listen to is CRAP!" garbage. You have two-thirds of your life left to
->live and you're already getting *bitterly nostalgic*?
Lazlo has a point here. Let other people have their fun (even if they
stole your scene!) and build up an alternative to the hardcore or bubblegum
techno stuff. That's what's happening here in Finland at last and it's the
only way things will ever change. Get busy!
house music is my life,
Perky Pig
rammed over and over, on top of itself. Is it me, or are 2 Unlimited not
actually rave, but everybody seems to think they are?? Rave is the underground
scene, the newest white labels played with the tunez everybody rememberz from
the 'good old dayz', when like stated, a rave was on a beach or in a warehouse,
not every friday and saturday night at the bloody hipperdrome????
the rave scene is still there for those who're prepared to look for it, but
those who want to dance the night away to 2 unlimited (and whatever else
is in the charts and sounds like a dance record), you can pop in a club, you
can smuggle your E in, you can jump around being really wonderful 'cause
your at a rave, but just remember. you're not at a rave. thanx. narkotix.
Robin J Green
>r...@cs.bham.ac.uk (Robin J Green) writes:
>
>> What is it now? "Raving I'm Raving." and Andrew Lloyd Weber doing rave
>> tracks for kids who have no history, no roots to comprehend the music.
>
>"Comprehend the music?" This is disco, not opera! What on earth is there
>to "comprehend" about rave music, then or now, beyond "I give it a nine --
>it's got a good beat, and I can dance to it?"
>
Well... OK people, what IS there to comprehend about Techno? Like,
what's so special about trancing off a 303? What IS so great about
leaving your persona behind in the ravages of some Hardcore bassline?
And of course the subtleties of the rhythm track matters not a jot as
long as it goes thud-thud-thud. Like, you wish...
There's FAR more to techno than just thud-thud-beep-beep. Why is it
that DJs are always bitching that 90mins of time on the decks isn't
enough time to space out the crowd? Each individual track is far less
important than THE MIX, but each adds it's own flavour and direction.
Sorry, this is turning into self centered new-agey dribble. But that's
how it is. Rave turned from a style of music into a WAY OF LIFE here,
so there must be something about it above and beyond the "smiley badges
and whistles" facia you may see.
And as for Disco... well, that's below the belt. :]
- Robin "Overdosed on STTNG last weekend and is seeing Ferengi" Green.