lifespan of a good pen?
Faisal Bhua
This is concerning the lifespan of a good quality fountain pen. I have
heard from people that they have pens dating back to 1970s and they
still write well. Being a complete newbie in this matter, could
somebody verify this for me? Supposing I write a single page for 30
years, that's roughly 11,000 pages. Perhaps the body can survive for
this time, but surely, the nib will become unusable?
So here is what I'd like to know:
1.The lifespan of the body (metal / plastic / resin)
2.The nib (gold or stainless steel)
3.The ink transfer system (plunger / cartridge)
Any advice on what combination of the above lasts the longest will be
appreciated. Feel free to refer brands as well, like Pelikan,
Parker...
FB.
fdu...@aol.com
1970s??? You havent heard very much since 100s of us write with pens
dating back to World War Two or One or even earlier on a daily basis and
they write as well as when new, still often look like new and usually
write better than many currently made pens. Esp pens made since the
later 1920s or 30s which if well made and properly restored outclass
most pens made today at any price.
The body of the pen --who knows? If its a good pen FAR longer than your
life span--unless you drop or damage it. Plastic can crack, metal can
dent and so on. But if its a well made pen and you avoid damage the
life span is probably several 100 years at least. Plating on most all
currently made pens will wear off sometimes in months, others last
years. But plating wear does not affect performance of the pen. Good
vintage pens used quality gold fill which can last ten times longer than
gold or chrome plating.
The nib will live FAR longer than you ever will if you write at that
rate--assuming its a good nib in the first place. Gold or good
stainless steel makes no difference--both will out live you if they are
well made. 11,000 pages hardly breaks a good nib in. A GOOD nib could
write 111,000 pages and still not show very serious wear.
Filler is another matter and no filler, except perhaps the original aero
51s will last a lifetime. Avcerage is from 5 to 50 years for a filler
without repairs. Even a cartridge pen may even show wear at the nipple
eventually and need service. If that worries you either get an aero 51
or a pen that is very easily serviced such as a vintage lever filler.
Piston fillers may last longer than levers but all pistons are soemwhat
more complex to service. Frank
marlinspike
>Even a cartridge pen may even show wear at the nipple
> eventually and need service.
the wear and tear of changing cartridges?
Richard
fdu...@aol.com
> Honest question: how about if you use a convertor since they you don't have
> the wear and tear of changing cartridges?
> Richard
Obviously it then at best becomes the same as a piston or sac filled pen
depending on which style converter it is. But the nipple seal still
remains a possible leakage point, unless the converter is cemented
carefully in place and not removed. FD
Giovanni Abrate
have converters that screw securely in place. On my Bruno, the fit is very
secure.
Giovanni
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3F9702...@aol.com...
SMSmith007
pray that you last as long as they do
.>So here is what I'd like to know:
Dik F. Liu
years long before I was born, according to my sisters. I think that my
grandfather gave her that pen. My best guess is that she used the pen for about
twenty years. This was her ONLY fountain pen; and she was an avid letter
writer.
Dik
Faisal Bhua
Thank you very much for your informative reply. There seems to be a
general consensus that vintage pens seem to be much better made then
today's fountain pens. Can we expect similar longivity of well made
modern pens?
I have heard good things about Pelikan pens. How long do you suppose
the 250 or 400 will last? Any other recommendations? It would be
really cool to own a "new pen", i.e. that something only I have used
that lasts me a lifetime.
FB.
fdu...@aol.com
>
> Frank,
>
> Thank you very much for your informative reply. There seems to be a
> general consensus that vintage pens seem to be much better made then
> today's fountain pens. Can we expect similar longivity of well made
> modern pens?
In general, no. Many reasons. First of all NO ONE really knows how
long a pen can last until it has lasted. Testing proceduers don't exist
that are reliable. Most all modern pens use cheaper gold plating rather
than gold fill. Eversharp once claimed their piston fillers were lab
tested to last 500 years in average use. In reality the average was
20-40 years. No one knew that until 20-40 years later. Modern pens use
cheaper and thinner materials in general vs vintage pens. Nathan
Tardiff has several times ran his car over a 1930s plastic Sheaffer and
the pen doesn't crack. I can't imagine a plastic pen made today by
anyone getting past that test. The same test with a modern Mont Blanc
resulted in a pen that literally vaporized into a pile of powder.
Others shattered into a pile of rubble.
> I have heard good things about Pelikan pens. How long do you suppose
> the 250 or 400 will last? Any other recommendations? It would be
> really cool to own a "new pen", i.e. that something only I have used
> that lasts me a lifetime.
>
Some cheaper modern Pelikans are virtually unrepairable since their
fillers are sort of factory sealed. Better versions are repairable
reasonably easy. The 400 is OK, not sure off hand on the 250. The
current 150 I know is a snap fit that few people can successfuly repair,
or if they can the repair would cost as much as a new 150 or probably
even more. Personally I think Pelikans are overated. But they are
still among the better pens made today. To be honest I think your
questions don't make much sense beyond theory, since as someone else
said, you should pray you will last as long as a well made pen will.
Why not consider a brand new modern pen thats 50 to 75 years old? :)
There are tens of thousands totally mint boxed vintage pens easily
available at a large pen show. Factory fresh, with price stickers,
original boxes and so on. Buying a mint vintage pens, esp common pens
like a 51, or Snorkel and so on is easy. You could probably buy over
100 of either example, mint, never inked at many larger shows and prices
would be well under $100 for either unless a rare variation. In fact
even under $50 with some shoping around. The Snorkel might need
restoration of its filler, but the 51 aero filler is as good to go as
the day it was made and, as everyone has said, will most likely outlast
you, your children and maybe your grand children and beyond.
Having said all this, odds are very high you would wreck or loose any
pen sooner thru loss, misplacement, theft, droping it and steping on it
and so on. These are pens. Not the family jewels. :) Frank
Quarter Horseman
publication describing a Waterman, a 5x I think, that saw heavy daily
use by husband and wife with an ink-color change once a day, I think. I
may have a couple of the details wrong, but the basic idea was that this
pen had the crap beat out of it and it just kep writing. Eventually the
tip material wore out, I think, but the pen would work fine today with a
nib retip and a sac change.
BTW, two of my best writers are a near-mint Conklin 20 and a knackered
Parker Jack Knife, both with retipped flex nibs, and they didn't need
retipping — I just wanted a different tip profile. Both pens are from
the early 20th century.
fdu...@aol.com
>
> Some time ago there was an article in The Pennant or some similar pen
> publication describing a Waterman, a 5x I think, that saw heavy daily
> use by husband and wife with an ink-color change once a day, I think. I
> may have a couple of the details wrong, but the basic idea was that this
> pen had the crap beat out of it and it just kep writing. Eventually the
> tip material wore out, I think, but the pen would work fine today with a
> nib retip and a sac change.
>
Strangely Waterman nibs although otherwise well made seem to be more
subject to wear. I have seen many with badly worn tipping material,
although it takes decades of use to wear em that far. On the other hand
in over 50 years of pens I have never ever not even once seen a Sheaffer
nib that has serious wear to the extent of needing replacement.
Sheaffer proudly advertised the fact that their tips were made of far
harder and higher quality material than most other pens and the evidence
appears to back up that claim. Sheaffer ran numerous ads about their
"hard" iridium vs what they called "soft" iridium used by some other
companies. Also claiming they paid 10x more for what they used. Of
course in later years they didn't use iridium, but whatever they did use
seems to be nearly imprevious to wear. Frank
DovR
I understand that it's nit that easy to work with iridiu\m, one of the
hardest metals known.
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3F97CF...@aol.com...
fdu...@aol.com
>
> What's the cost of retipping. Is it a complicated procedure ?
> I understand that it's nit that easy to work with iridiu\m, one of the
> hardest metals known.
I think retipping is VASTLY overdone and I have never and probably will
never have a nib retipped. A nib needing retipping is like a car in a
really bad car wreck. Its virtually totaled and its better to just
scrap the thing and get another car and often far cheaper as well. A
retipped nib, at very best, is like a car rebuilt after a serious
wreck. It may look and run like new, but to a car dealer or car
collector its never going to be the same, nor can it ever be factory
original. It may not be as well made or as strong as an original as
well.
Its a far easier process than many people think, but to look and work
correctly does require extensive experience and for consistant results
expensive equipment as well.
The only time retipping makes real sense IMHO is for a very rare and
unique nib like a Patrician, Parker 10, Waterman 8 and so on. To retip
a standard Waterman 2 nib for example can cost around $75. The very
same nib in perfect original condition can easily be found factory
original in a junk box with the pen for ten bucks or so at most any pen
show. A nib dealer wouldn't probably charge more than $25 for the nib.
Why rebuild a broken bib for 3x the price than a perfect original
replacement?
Natan Tardif is far cheaper charging, I think around $35. Still higher
than an original nib, but a bit closer in cost. In all cases you may
also have to pay for the nib removal and replacement in the pen, unless
you do that yourself. Don't forget the cost of postage, insurance,
delays in shipment and so on as well.
Retipped nibs are NOT original to any pen and never will be. I
personally think its unethical to sell any pen with a retipped nib
without disclosing the fact. Like that rebuilt car after a car wreck,
its not an original example of what left the factory, even if it does
look and work the same. Even worse IMHO is when good nibs, or even bad
nibs are altered into something the company never made, i.e a music nib,
super stubs, broads, and so on when the pen original was, say a normal F
or M nib. Its OK, I guess for nib geeks, but highly unethical to sell
such a pen without fully disclosing its a after market private party
alteration to the pen.
None of this is meant to reflect badly on the fine work being done by
John M., Nathan T. or others. Like a good auto body shop their work is
usually excellent and beyond reproach. My problem comes from what
current and future owners of these 'cars" may do or not do when the
"cars" are resold to people who may think that pen is the way it left
the factory. As usual your milage or opinions may vary. Frank
Dik F. Liu
<n...@mail.nomail.nomail> writes:
>Eventually the tip material wore out, I think, but the pen would work fine
today with a nib retip and a sac change.<
When I was in grade schools, I have had so many pens of which I wore out the
tip material. I never had the nibs re-tip. I didn't even know this could be
done. Anyway, this would be pointless (pun intended) as these were just school
pens. Even after the tip was worn, the pen wrote just fine (pun intended
again.). It was scratchy but it can be smoothened somewhat by rubbing the tip
against the wood grain on the underside of a school desk. We weren't that
obsessive about smoothness. Afterall, these were fountain pens, not
ball-points. Smoothness only became an important issue for me in recent years,
after I started "collecting" pens.
I would only replace the pen when the fine tip had worn to broad and was
wasting too much ink.
Dik
fdu...@aol.com
>
> When I was in grade schools, I have had so many pens of which I wore out the
> tip material. I never had the nibs re-tip. I didn't even know this could be
> done. Anyway, this would be pointless (pun intended) as these were just school
> pens. Even after the tip was worn, the pen wrote just fine (pun intended
> again.). It was scratchy but it can be smoothened somewhat by rubbing the tip
> against the wood grain on the underside of a school desk. We weren't that
> obsessive about smoothness. Afterall, these were fountain pens, not
> ball-points. Smoothness only became an important issue for me in recent years,
> after I started "collecting" pens.
>
> I would only replace the pen when the fine tip had worn to broad and was
> wasting too much ink.
Beginners should note that Dik is talking about what are really untipped
nibs. That is cheap nibs that have no tipping material at all and the
enitre nib is made of rather soft metal, be it brass or steel. The
standard Esterbrook is a good example of an untipped nib. The "tip" is
really nothing more than the end of the nib tines bent over and filled
with solder. The life span of the standard Estie nib was rated by the
factory at three years average daily use.
Better Estie nibs cost more (about 1.00 vs .35 cents) and did have a
welded on tip of iridium or other ultra hard metal and easily will lastd
decades of average use. FD
Dik F. Liu
>Beginners should note that Dik is talking about what are really untipped nibs.
That is cheap nibs that have no tipping material at all and the enitre nib is
made of rather soft metal, be it brass or steel.<
That's correct. They were steel. The nibs wore out after about one semester of
heavy school work.
Dik
Ron Wilbanks
Dik F. Liu wrote:
[snip]
>
> That's correct. They were steel. The nibs wore out after about one semester of
> heavy school work.
Yes, my mother had an Estie in her junior high school days and would
often have to replace the nib every semester because of heavy writing.
However, the really nice thing about these pens was that her school
store carried them and a few of the different nibs. Also, they had the
official (and only) ink they could use was Carter's Blue-Black. But
things got better in high school when they could use Sheaffer blue,
black or blue-black but never red, since that is what the teachers used
to correct the papers.
--
Sincerely yours,
Ron Wilbanks
"Like a prized watch, a good fountain pen is a trusted companion for life."
Spam filter: -1 for the real thing!
Faisal Bhua
It seems that the only way to get a new, good pen is to go for an NOS
(New Old Stock) item. Doesn't this sound a bit strange - with the
amount of new technology and advance in material science, surely, at
least one company could come up with a pen built to last?
Of course, the obvious answer would be that they don't WANT to.
Probably companies like Mont Blanc want their pens to self destruct
after 3 years so they can sell more units.
Getting back on topic, inital search on the Internet seems to point at
Parker 51. Well built, still available as NOS, and unless you want
something uncommon, they can be had for < $100. Of course, tested to
last for 40+ years... good enough for me. Any other item I should look
into, or am I already looking at the ultimate?
Thanks for the recommendation,
F.B.
fdu...@aol.com
>
> Frank,
>
> It seems that the only way to get a new, good pen is to go for an NOS
> (New Old Stock) item. Doesn't this sound a bit strange - with the
> amount of new technology and advance in material science, surely, at
> least one company could come up with a pen built to last?
Not at all. The day of the fountain pen is long gone and it will never
return. people thinbking it will are hopless dreamers. So since all
pens are low production profit per pen is critical. Even the largest
selling cheap pen today sells far less in a year than a quality pen
could sell in a day 75 years ago.
Do a search in technology of pens on this board. Nothing has been done
since the 50s and I don't believe anything can be done thats REALLY a
usefull improvement. A technology can be pushed so far and then it
stops. As I said then--you may as well try to improve the wheel by
making it other than round. A round wheel is bascially as far as a
wheel can be pushed in terms of improvement. A non-round wheel will
never be an improvement. Same idea for pens. Its a simple device and
anything useful has already been designed into them 50 or more years
ago.
Sure a company COULD make a pen to last with a real solid well made nib,
and gold fill trim. But no company on earth does. Ggeorge Parker even
said--to build a pen to last a lifetime is very bad for business since
the buyer is taken out of the pen market for life. Imagine of you could
buy a car for to last for your life? Would that really be good for car
companies? To build a pen to last a true lifetime is simply put, bad
for business. It worked back when everyone on earth that wrote used
fountain pens. It doesn't work when only one out of 100 people alive
will ever even consider buying or using one for any reason. Frank
Penny Howland
you have any....my email to you came back.
"Faisal Bhua" <f_b...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47b0525e.03102...@posting.google.com...
john cline ii
"Ron Wilbanks" wrote:
| Yes, my mother had an Estie in her junior high school days and would
| often have to replace the nib every semester because of heavy
writing.
| However, the really nice thing about these pens was that her school
| store carried them and a few of the different nibs. Also, they had
the
| official (and only) ink they could use was Carter's Blue-Black. But
| things got better in high school when they could use Sheaffer blue,
| black or blue-black but never red, since that is what the teachers
used
| to correct the papers.
I can't even imagine the unspeakable horrors that would have occurred
should some rapscallion used orange ink.
Did they even MAKE orange ink back then?
john cline ii, who would have been fine with this then Sheaffer
black...
so what
>I can't even imagine the unspeakable horrors that would have occurred
>should some rapscallion used orange ink.
Whatziss? A rapper who likes green onions?
satrapscallion,
who would have found orange ink, in any era!