Zipser attacks VIA EMAIL! Bad dealers should be BANNED from USENET
Brian L. McCarty
Guess his "killfiles" aren't working again!
> Don't worry, fatboy! I will post them again when CES comes around - from AT&T
> and there aint a fuckin thing you can do about it BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
> You are sooooooooo fucking disliked you only give me positive PR!
> Keep it up! We are going to the Carribean and South America (staying at >
PRINCESS resorts!) this year for vacationand I'd like to personally thank
you
> for helping me make the money to afford this trip!
Methinks the dead mother has something to do with zippies "travels".
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
> Next year we go to Israel!
> We'll pray for your swarmy fat unemployed ass!
Brian L. McCarty <opera...@worldjazz.com <mailto:opera...@worldjazz.com>
> wrote in message news:< <news:> 7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net
<mailto:7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >...
>
>
> > Stevie Sunswine wrote:
> >>
> >> Cool! I provided pictures of all of us last year, and everyone loved
> >> them ....except guess who - the McDummy Brothers!
>
> FROM THE BELLSOUTH "ACCEPTABLE USE" POLICY:
> -------------------------------------------
>
> "Posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups is not allowed. Posting of
> off-topic articles is prohibited. Please note that commercial
> advertisements are off-topic in the vast majority of newsgroups."
If you are going to consider a purchase, read this carefully:
"Then as I began to read more of Mr. Zipsers postings on r.a.o., his
true nature became readily apparent. I seriously considered asking him
to remove any reference of Coda from his signature as I did not
believe that someone of his nature should be representing Coda."
"the principals at Coda no longer considered Sunshine
Stereo to be a dealer"
"...given the past bad experience with Sunshine
Stereo . . .Coda did not consider Sunshine Stereo a dealer. Coda, Continuum
or otherwise." STEVE EDDY, REPRESENTING CODA AUDIO
ZIPPIE CAUGHT LYING AGAIN!
Brian
---
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) is a proven:
Zipser is a liar http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
Zipser is a scammer http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
Zipser is a cheater http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
Zipser is a THIEF http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=509980240
Fred B.
**Here's Zippie's latest emailbomb sent to our server today.
**
**Guess his "killfiles" aren't working again!
**
**
**
**
**
**> Don't worry, fatboy! I will post them again when CES comes around
- from AT&T
**> and there aint a fuckin thing you can do about it
BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
**
**> You are sooooooooo fucking disliked you only give me positive PR!
**> Keep it up! We are going to the Carribean and South America
(staying at >
**PRINCESS resorts!) this year for vacationand I'd like to personally
thank
**you
** > for helping me make the money to afford this trip!
**
**Methinks the dead mother has something to do with zippies "travels".
**
**BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
**
**> Next year we go to Israel!
**> We'll pray for your swarmy fat unemployed ass!
**
**
**Brian L. McCarty <opera...@worldjazz.com
<mailto:opera...@worldjazz.com>
**> wrote in message news:< <news:>
7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net
**<mailto:7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >...
**>
**>
**> > Stevie Sunswine wrote:
**> >>
**> >> Cool! I provided pictures of all of us last year, and everyone
loved
**> >> them ....except guess who - the McDummy Brothers!
**>
**> FROM THE BELLSOUTH "ACCEPTABLE USE" POLICY:
**> -------------------------------------------
**>
**> "Posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups is not allowed.
Posting of
**> off-topic articles is prohibited. Please note that commercial
**> advertisements are off-topic in the vast majority of
newsgroups."
**If you are going to consider a purchase, read this carefully:
**
**"Then as I began to read more of Mr. Zipsers postings on r.a.o., his
**true nature became readily apparent. I seriously considered asking
him
**to remove any reference of Coda from his signature as I did not
**believe that someone of his nature should be representing Coda."
**
**"the principals at Coda no longer considered Sunshine
**Stereo to be a dealer"
**
**"...given the past bad experience with Sunshine
**Stereo . . .Coda did not consider Sunshine Stereo a dealer. Coda,
Continuum
**or otherwise." STEVE EDDY, REPRESENTING CODA AUDIO
**
**ZIPPIE CAUGHT LYING AGAIN!
**
**
**Brian
**
**---
**Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) is a proven:
**Zipser is a liar http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
**Zipser is a scammer http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
**Zipser is a cheater http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
**Zipser is a THIEF http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=509980240
**
To be honest Brian, this post says nothing good about you. Not to
mention how many people, giving your attitude towards Mr. Z, will
believe you?
Personal attacks on this group are a way of life, and entertainment.
But you go beyond the bounds of any, well, reason.
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
What is this all about?
Is Brian off his prozac again?
Cheers
Zip
Fred B. <phot...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:37aea0fe....@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net...
Fred B.
Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
"Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> said-
**Fred:
**What is this all about?
**Is Brian off his prozac again?
**Cheers
**Zip
**
**Fred B. <phot...@ibm.net> wrote in message
**news:37aea0fe....@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net...
**> "Brian L. McCarty" <opera...@worldjazz.com> said-
**>
**> **Here's Zippie's latest emailbomb sent to our server today.
**> **
**> **Guess his "killfiles" aren't working again!
**> **
**> **
**> **
**> **
**> **
**> **> Don't worry, fatboy! I will post them again when CES comes
around
**> - from AT&T
**> **> and there aint a fuckin thing you can do about it
**> BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
**> **
**> **> You are sooooooooo fucking disliked you only give me positive
PR!
**> **> Keep it up! We are going to the Carribean and South America
**> (staying at >
**> **PRINCESS resorts!) this year for vacationand I'd like to
personally
**> thank
**> **you
**> ** > for helping me make the money to afford this trip!
**> **
**> **Methinks the dead mother has something to do with zippies
"travels".
**> **
**> **BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
**> **
**> **> Next year we go to Israel!
**> **> We'll pray for your swarmy fat unemployed ass!
**> **
**> **
**> **Brian L. McCarty <opera...@worldjazz.com
**> <mailto:opera...@worldjazz.com>
**> **> wrote in message news:< <news:>
**> 7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net
**> **<mailto:7oflaj$b71$6...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >...
**> **>
**> **>
**> **> > Stevie Sunswine wrote:
**> **> >>
**> **> >> Cool! I provided pictures of all of us last year, and
everyone
**> loved
**> **> >> them ....except guess who - the McDummy Brothers!
**> **>
**> **> FROM THE BELLSOUTH "ACCEPTABLE USE" POLICY:
**> **> -------------------------------------------
**> **>
**> **> "Posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups is not allowed.
**> Posting of
**> **> off-topic articles is prohibited. Please note that
commercial
**> **> advertisements are off-topic in the vast majority of
**> newsgroups."
**> **If you are going to consider a purchase, read this carefully:
**> **
**> **"Then as I began to read more of Mr. Zipsers postings on r.a.o.,
his
**> **true nature became readily apparent. I seriously considered
asking
**> him
**> **to remove any reference of Coda from his signature as I did not
**> **believe that someone of his nature should be representing Coda."
**> **
**> **"the principals at Coda no longer considered Sunshine
**> **Stereo to be a dealer"
**> **
**> **"...given the past bad experience with Sunshine
**> **Stereo . . .Coda did not consider Sunshine Stereo a dealer.
Coda,
**> Continuum
**> **or otherwise." STEVE EDDY, REPRESENTING CODA AUDIO
**> **
**> **ZIPPIE CAUGHT LYING AGAIN!
**> **
**> **
**> **Brian
**> **
**> **---
**> **Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) is a proven:
**> **Zipser is a liar
http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
**> **Zipser is a scammer
http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
**> **Zipser is a cheater
http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
**> **Zipser is a THIEF
http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=509980240
**> **
**> To be honest Brian, this post says nothing good about you. Not to
**> mention how many people, giving your attitude towards Mr. Z, will
**> believe you?
**>
**> Personal attacks on this group are a way of life, and
entertainment.
**> But you go beyond the bounds of any, well, reason.
**>
**>
**
**
Steve Zipser
says...
> Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
> Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
>
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo,Inc http://sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
Conrad Johnson Spectron Eggleston Parasound Entech Gallo Davis Entech NEAR
Audible Illusions Straightwire Niles Camelot Faroudja Rega Benz-Micro RUNCO
Dunlavy Lexicon Zenith Mordaunt-Short EAD CleanLines Monster Seleco ESP
Nakamichi Genelec Solid Steel Oracle Salamander Audio Logic PASS DVDO NHT
Bruce J. Richman
>Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
>Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
>
True, prozac is generally used for depression.
However, depression and psychosis are not always mutually exclusive. Brian
is definitely the latter in terms of his online behavior. One could speculate
that he's also the former - after all, he appears to have a massive inferiority
complex that's fully justified :-). Given his severe intellectual and moral
limitations, who wouldn't be depressed?
Bruce J. Richman
Arny Krüger
Bruce J. Richman <bjri...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990809195831...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
> Fred B. wrote:
>
>
> >Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
> >Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
> >
>
> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>
Or OCD.
Bruce J. Richman
Not generally, IME. Sometimes tried, however, as a secondary choice or in
combination with other medications. Prozac's primary use is for the treatment
of depression.
Many psychotropic medications have been tried, both singly and in combination
to treat a number of different psychological ailments. Other approaches to the
treatment of OCD, often tried first in terms of pharmaceutics include Anafranil
and Luvox. And in very severe cases that are refractory to both psychotropic
and psychotherapeutic intervention, there is a form of neurosurgery called a
cingulectomy that involves removal of a defined area of cortical stucture.
(From what I've read and via direct clinical experience, the results of this
procedure are somewhat controversial).
More conservatively, various cognitive-behavioral treatment techniques such as
response prevention (in which individuals are literally prevented from engaging
in certain problematic types of ritualistic and/or compulisve behaviors),
cognitive restructuring and various anxiety-reduction procedures as well have
been successfully used in the treatment of OCD - sometimes as a sole treatment
and sometimes in combination with psychotropic medication.
Much of the treatment strategy is dependent on the practitioner's own training
and theoretical orientation re. the etiology of this set of disorders.
Bruce J. Richman
Peter Corey
"Bruce J. Richman" wrote:
>
> Arny Kruger wrote:
>
> >Bruce J. Richman <bjri...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:19990809195831...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
> >> Fred B. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
> >> >Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
> >> >
> >>
> >> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
> >>
> >
> >Or OCD.
<much snip of very good stuff>
> >
> >
> Not generally, IME. Sometimes tried, however, as a secondary choice or in
> combination with other medications. Prozac's primary use is for the treatment
> of depression.
>
> Bruce J. Richman
Well stated, Bruce, and utilized in the development of the world's first
and only omnidirectional horn loaded loudspeaker.
http://home.att.net/~pcor/Pages/pro.html
--
With best regards;
-- | ^ ^ |
[ 0 = ]
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo---
P. Corey; prop.
The Hi-End Haven™ @
http://home.att.net/~pcor/Pages/hiendhaven.html
Fred B.
>Fred B. wrote:
>
>
>>Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
>>Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
>>
>
>True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>
>
> However, depression and psychosis are not always mutually exclusive. Brian
>is definitely the latter in terms of his online behavior. One could speculate
>that he's also the former - after all, he appears to have a massive inferiority
>complex that's fully justified :-). Given his severe intellectual and moral
>limitations, who wouldn't be depressed?
>
>
>
>
>
>Bruce J. Richman
>
>
>
He may be taking some of Arny's "placebo's" and experience the dreaded
"placebo effect".
Steve Zipser
says...
Fred:
As screwed up as Kreuger is, he can still function somewhat normally in
the real world.
McCarty is an Internet Stalker, and is truly one sick mofo!
Then again, Middius' behaviour is quite similar to McCartys ;-)
Zip
Fred B.
>Arny Kruger wrote:
>
>
>>Bruce J. Richman <bjri...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:19990809195831...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
>>> Fred B. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >Ummmm.... Prozac is for depression Steve.
>>> >Brian is not depressed, just psychotic.
>>> >
>>>
>>> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>>>
>>
>>Or OCD.
>>
>>
>Not generally, IME. Sometimes tried, however, as a secondary choice or in
>combination with other medications. Prozac's primary use is for the treatment
>of depression.
>
>Many psychotropic medications have been tried, both singly and in combination
>to treat a number of different psychological ailments. Other approaches to the
>treatment of OCD, often tried first in terms of pharmaceutics include Anafranil
>and Luvox. And in very severe cases that are refractory to both psychotropic
>and psychotherapeutic intervention, there is a form of neurosurgery called a
>cingulectomy that involves removal of a defined area of cortical stucture.
>(From what I've read and via direct clinical experience, the results of this
>procedure are somewhat controversial).
>
>More conservatively, various cognitive-behavioral treatment techniques such as
>response prevention (in which individuals are literally prevented from engaging
>in certain problematic types of ritualistic and/or compulisve behaviors),
>cognitive restructuring and various anxiety-reduction procedures as well have
>been successfully used in the treatment of OCD - sometimes as a sole treatment
>and sometimes in combination with psychotropic medication.
>
>Much of the treatment strategy is dependent on the practitioner's own training
>and theoretical orientation re. the etiology of this set of disorders.
>
>
>
>Bruce J. Richman
>
>
>
Would cngulectomy explain why the audio borgs, and Arny, Alan D.,
Pinkasston, and Howard Fester, can't hear sound like normal people? :)
Could the wrong portion of their brains have been removed???? The part
next to the ears (auditory sections of brain)?
Perhaps the above crew is putting their prozac capsules into their
ears, stuffing them in horribly, instead of taking them orally?
Or, can they just be a matched set of assholes??
Fred B.
Arny Krüger
George M. Middius <ragn...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:37b6adf0...@news.supernews.com...
> Bruce J. Richman said:
>
> >Prozac's primary use is for the treatment of depression.
>
Ask your doctor... ;-)
http://www.psyweb.com/Drughtm/fluoxe.html says:
"Fluoxetine ( Prozac ) a serotonin-specific drug is used then the patient
does not respond to heterocyclic antidepressants. This drug is used mainly
in the treatment of depression. It is also used to treat other psychological
disorders , these include: OCD ( obsessive-compulsive disorder ), panic
disorder, and antiphobic effects. This drug may also be used in the
treatment of bulimia."
Paul Dormer
>> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>
>Or OCD.
You are familiar with obsessive compulsive disorder, Arny?
Yeah that figures!
Let me guess.. you have an anxiety based compulsion to post to RAO?
You don't feel 'clean' until you've purged your irrational thoughts..
into the forum?
Paul Dormer Me...@clara.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sound Design, Editing, Mastering
Anonymous User
>
> Here's Zippie's latest emailbomb sent to our server today.
>
> > and there aint a fuckin thing you can do about it BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
dogs dont eat dogs.
--
Zipser is a liar http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
Zipser is a scammer http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
Zipser is a cheater http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
Arny Krüger
Paul Dormer <me...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:37c75bdb...@news.clara.net...
> "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> >> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
> >
> >Or OCD.
>
> You are familiar with obsessive compulsive disorder, Arny?
Some familiarity with OCD simply comes with living life.
> Yeah that figures!
>
> Let me guess.. you have an anxiety based compulsion to post to RAO?
Hardly.
> You don't feel 'clean' until you've purged your irrational thoughts..
into the forum?
Hardly.
Paul Dormer
>> >> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>> >
>> >Or OCD.
>>
>> You are familiar with obsessive compulsive disorder, Arny?
>
>Some familiarity with OCD simply comes with living life.
Does this apply to Eskimos too?
I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
or has studied psychology.
Bruce J. Richman
>"Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>
>>> >> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
>>> >
>>> >Or OCD.
>>>
>>> You are familiar with obsessive compulsive disorder, Arny?
>>
>>Some familiarity with OCD simply comes with living life.
>
>Does this apply to Eskimos too?
>
>I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
>OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
>or has studied psychology.
>
>Paul Dormer Me...@clara.net
>
Agreed. It's definitely not the most widely publicized or discussed form of
maladaptive behavior. Nor are pharmaceutical approaches necessarily the most
effective methods of treating it either.
Bruce J. Richman
Arny Krüger
> "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> True, prozac is generally used for depression.
> >> >
> >> >Or OCD.
> >>
> >> You are familiar with obsessive compulsive disorder, Arny?
> >
> >Some familiarity with OCD simply comes with living life.
>
> Does this apply to Eskimos too?
>
> I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
> OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
> or has studied psychology.
Your second two conditions fit me. Remember, my wife has a degree in
psychology. AFAIK, just knowing people well, you find out that they are
troubled with conditions like this, and they tell you about the treatment
they receive. Perhaps you've never been so close to another person that
they've confided stuff like this in you?
Paul Dormer
>>I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
>>OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
>>or has studied psychology.
>Agreed. It's definitely not the most widely publicized or discussed form of
>maladaptive behavior. Nor are pharmaceutical approaches necessarily the most
>effective methods of treating it either.
AFAIK exposure therapy would be the first course of action,
accompanied by visualisation, relaxation and methods of self-talk and
mistaken-belief control. I don't think Prozac is the number 1 choice
if therapy fails anyway.. Seroxat maybe?
Bruce J. Richman
>bjri...@aol.com (Bruce J. Richman) wrote:
>
>>>I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
>>>OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
>>>or has studied psychology.
>
>>Agreed. It's definitely not the most widely publicized or discussed form of
>>maladaptive behavior. Nor are pharmaceutical approaches necessarily the
>most
>>effective methods of treating it either.
>
>AFAIK exposure therapy would be the first course of action,
>accompanied by visualisation, relaxation and methods of self-talk and
>mistaken-belief control. I don't think Prozac is the number 1 choice
>if therapy fails anyway.. Seroxat maybe?
>
Absolutely correct and very succinctly stated :-). And all, I might add,
cognitive-behavioral techniques supported and based on a respectable amount of
empirical research and comparative treatment studies. And you're also correct
that Prozac would definitely *not* be the first choice among psychotropic
drugs. I'm not sure about the new drug you mention, but Anafranil and Luvox
have both been popular choices in recent years.
As an aside, one of the psychologists who did some pioneering work in this area
several years ago, Edna Foa, was one of the trainers I was exposed to when
doing a postdoctoral in behavior therapy a number of years ago. Believe it or
not, she would occasionally take compulsive handwashers and others suffering
from various cleanliness rituals down to a local city waste dump (around
Philadelphia) as part of exposure-based treatment.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Dormer
>>>>I don't think that many people in the general public are aware of
>>>>OCD.. usually someone who is familiar either is, knows someone who is,
>>>>or has studied psychology.
>>
>>>Agreed. It's definitely not the most widely publicized or discussed form of
>>>maladaptive behavior. Nor are pharmaceutical approaches necessarily the
>>most
>>>effective methods of treating it either.
>>
>>AFAIK exposure therapy would be the first course of action,
>>accompanied by visualisation, relaxation and methods of self-talk and
>>mistaken-belief control. I don't think Prozac is the number 1 choice
>>if therapy fails anyway.. Seroxat maybe?
>
>Absolutely correct and very succinctly stated :-)
Thanks ;-)
>And all, I might add,
>cognitive-behavioral techniques supported and based on a respectable amount of
>empirical research and comparative treatment studies. And you're also correct
>that Prozac would definitely *not* be the first choice among psychotropic
>drugs. I'm not sure about the new drug you mention, but Anafranil and Luvox
>have both been popular choices in recent years.
I think Seroxat has another name, it may be just a UK trading name
>As an aside, one of the psychologists who did some pioneering work in this area
>several years ago, Edna Foa, was one of the trainers I was exposed to when
>doing a postdoctoral in behavior therapy a number of years ago. Believe it or
>not, she would occasionally take compulsive handwashers and others suffering
>from various cleanliness rituals down to a local city waste dump (around
>Philadelphia) as part of exposure-based treatment.
That's pretty bad.. but I have heard even worse! One OCD case where
the subject was handling excrement as part of the therapy! One hopes
that if the person was cured they weren't enthused into handling
excrement as a pastime ;-)
Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
liar?
Paul Wagner
> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
> liar?
VERY interesting question, Paul!
Sander deWaal
>>And all, I might add,
>>cognitive-behavioral techniques supported and based on a respectable amount of
>>empirical research and comparative treatment studies. And you're also correct
>>that Prozac would definitely *not* be the first choice among psychotropic
>>drugs. I'm not sure about the new drug you mention, but Anafranil and Luvox
>>have both been popular choices in recent years.
>I think Seroxat has another name, it may be just a UK trading name
It's an Euro trade name.
I used Seroxat last year for treatment of a depression.
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Sander deWaal
>> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
>> liar?
On Usenet: ignoring him?
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Bruce J. Richman
I'll try and find out if there is an American equivalent for this drug. Of
course, in some cases, medications available in Europe or Canada are not FDA
(Federal Drug Administration) approved for sale in the US and hence not
available here.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Wagner
>
> Paul Dormer wrote:
>
> >Paul Wagner <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Paul Dormer wrote:
> >>
> >>> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
> >>> liar?
> >>
> ...I don't recall finding a serious case of this in the psychological literature
> (although there may be some).
>
> ...For those with this habit, of course, even harsh
> criticism fills their need for recognition - as compared with lack of response,
> which learning theory, at least, would predict, would eventually lead to
> extinction of the behavior if applied consistently and over a sufficiently long
> period of time.
This is an interesting response, too, Bruce. I've always wondered
about variations on this topic.
Given that random, occasional reward seems to actually fix certain kinds
of compulsive behavior -- and that there is bound to BE random,
occasional reward in certain kinds of socially destructive conduct, such
as compulsive gambling, or compulsive sexualizing --
and furthermore, given that the social shaming involved in the
unsuccessful acts seems to be part of what is desired --
how does the behavioral approach deal with this?
I know that in classical psychoanalytic approach, getting down to the
formation point of the split that produces the compulsion as a
stress-avoidant, or dissonance-solution, is seen as the keyl; yet that
is, as Freud himself offered to the Psychoanalytic Society, often
unsuccessful, as the compulsion often seems to take on a life
(electrical/neuronal, possibly...) of its own.
The behavioral approach has been very successful, I understand, with
asocial compulsions (ankankastic repetition, etc), but what about the
more social ones?
Fascinating stuff...
Paul Dormer
>Paul Dormer wrote:
>
>> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
>> liar?
>
>VERY interesting question, Paul!
Certainly exposure therapy doesn't seem to work ;-)
Bruce J. Richman
>Paul Wagner <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Paul Dormer wrote:
>>
>>> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
>>> liar?
>>
>>VERY interesting question, Paul!
>
>Certainly exposure therapy doesn't seem to work ;-)
>
I don't recall finding a serious case of this in the psychological literature
(although there may be some).
However, it's hard to draw any conclusions from RAO, given the fact that a few
compulsive liars here actually get reinforced (via attention, minor approval,
etc.) for their behavior. For those with this habit, of course, even harsh
criticism fills their need for recognition - as compared with lack of response,
which learning theory, at least, would predict, would eventually lead to
extinction of the behavior if applied consistently and over a sufficiently long
period of time.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Dormer
>I'll try and find out if there is an American equivalent for this drug. Of
>course, in some cases, medications available in Europe or Canada are not FDA
>(Federal Drug Administration) approved for sale in the US and hence not
>available here.
Paroxetine?
The Devil
>As an aside, one of the psychologists who did some pioneering work in this area
>several years ago, Edna Foa, was one of the trainers I was exposed to when
>doing a postdoctoral in behavior therapy a number of years ago. Believe it or
>not, she would occasionally take compulsive handwashers and others suffering
>from various cleanliness rituals down to a local city waste dump (around
>Philadelphia) as part of exposure-based treatment.
Are you trying to push Howie out of retirement, you cruel
man! :-)
__
************************************
Major PCAV Retch Update now complete
************************************
www.pcavretch.cjb.net
Roy Briggs : Remove 'ZZ' for e-mail reply
Bruce J. Richman
>bjri...@aol.com (Bruce J. Richman) wrote:
>
>>As an aside, one of the psychologists who did some pioneering work in this
>area
>>several years ago, Edna Foa, was one of the trainers I was exposed to when
>>doing a postdoctoral in behavior therapy a number of years ago. Believe it
>or
>>not, she would occasionally take compulsive handwashers and others suffering
>>from various cleanliness rituals down to a local city waste dump (around
>>Philadelphia) as part of exposure-based treatment.
>
>Are you trying to push Howie out of retirement, you cruel
>man! :-)
>
>__
>
LOL!!! Perish the thought! Actually, I sort of envisage Fester as providing
an endless *source* of waste material for the dump! :-)
Bruce J. Richman
Sander deWaal
>I'll try and find out if there is an American equivalent for this drug. Of
>course, in some cases, medications available in Europe or Canada are not FDA
>(Federal Drug Administration) approved for sale in the US and hence not
>available here.
The opposite is also (ook nog) true, sadly.....
My wife would benefit from a drug called "Elmiron", tested
and approved in the US, but not in Europe.
This is a drug , used for treatment of multiple sclerosis,
lupus, and immunity diseases in general.
I don't suppose it's possible to order it (possibly with a
prescription from an US physician) and have it sent to
Holland, is it?
Is there a possible alternative for this drug that's available
here?
I realize this is way off topic, but maybe you or someone
else may know more about this?
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Bruce J. Richman
Sander, unfortunately I can't shed any light on your question. I'm not a
physician, but rather a clinical psychologist with a decent working knowledge
of psychotropic medications in use in the US for the treatment of various
emotional disorders (e.g. psychoses, depression, anxiety, etc.). I hope to
become a lot more knowledgeable even within this class of drugs in the next
several years, because the chances are quite good that psychologists will
finally obtain what we've long advocated for - prescribing privileges for
psychotropic medications. (Various political, legislative and educational
initiatives are now underway to reach that goal).
I'd suggest the following however: (1) If you can find a copy in one of your
libraries of the Physicians' Desk Reference published annually in the US
(better known as the PDR over here), this would enable you to check out various
drugs available in the US, along with their recommended usages, dosages, side
effects, contraindications, physiology, etc., (2) Find out either the actual
chemical or generic name for Elmiron (assuming this is a brand name if it's a
fairly new drug), and then perhaps by checking with local pharmacies in the
Netherlands, you can find out if there is an equivalent product for sale there,
(3) I don't believe it is legal for an American physician to prescribe a new
medication (as opposed to a refill of one already used) without an actual
face-to-face encounter/examination of the prospective recipient.
That said, it is a fact of life that sometimes people in the US *will* obtain
various medications from Canada that are sold "over-the-counter" there but not
in the US - that is they require no prescription.
Perhaps there is a physician reading RAO that could provide some suggestions?
Bruce J. Richman
Bruce J. Richman
>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>>
>> Paul Dormer wrote:
>>
>> >Paul Wagner <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Paul Dormer wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Now then.. what would be the normal approach to treating a compulsive
>> >>> liar?
>> >>
>> >>VERY interesting question, Paul!
>
>> ...I don't recall finding a serious case of this in the psychological
>literature
>> (although there may be some).
>>
>> ...For those with this habit, of course, even harsh
>> criticism fills their need for recognition - as compared with lack of
>response,
>> which learning theory, at least, would predict, would eventually lead to
>> extinction of the behavior if applied consistently and over a sufficiently
>long
>> period of time.
>
>This is an interesting response, too, Bruce. I've always wondered
>about variations on this topic.
>
>Given that random, occasional reward seems to actually fix certain kinds
>of compulsive behavior -- and that there is bound to BE random,
>occasional reward in certain kinds of socially destructive conduct, such
>as compulsive gambling, or compulsive sexualizing --
If by "fix", you mean "positively reinforce", then I agree.
>
>and furthermore, given that the social shaming involved in the
>unsuccessful acts seems to be part of what is desired --
>
>how does the behavioral approach deal with this?
As you point out, habits such as compulsive gambling and perhaps various types
of sexual *addictions* and associated behavior are on what learning theorists
would call a "variable ratio reinforcement schedule" (i.e. positive rewards
received at variable intervals of time) - and this type of reward schedule is
often even more powerful (in the sense that it encourages the behavior in
question) than more continuous/frequent reward schedules. Given this state of
affairs, these habits are notoriously difficult to treat and/or eliminate.
That said, a variety of different behavioral approaches have been used to deal
with various types of compulsive behavior - and sometimes these techniques are
used in combination. If you accept the basic premise that most psychopathology
can be viewed as operating on at least 4 different levels - a) overt behavior,
b) emotions or feelings, c) cognitions (thoughts, attitudes), and d) biological
processes either triggering and/or a consequence of the pathology in question
- then the following treatment approach may be valid - It's best to attack the
problem along all these dimensions. To illustrate with compulsive handwashing
for example - the behavior has actually been eliminated in some hospital-based
programs in which the patient is physically *restricted* from engaging in the
behavior in a predetermined manner. As regards the presumed anxiety-reduction
function served by such compulsive behavior, a cognitive-behavioral approach
would target the phobic areas or other stressors generating the anxiety which
then presumably triggers the compulsive behavior (e.g. handwashing).
Anxiety-reduction procedures such as systematic desensitization, progressive
muscular relaxation training, flooding via guided imagery, etc. could then be
used to teach the patient how to eliminate the anxiety in more adaptive ways
than engaging in the compulsion. As regards the *cognitions* (thoughts,
attitudes) assumed to also be operative in the etiology of compulsive behavior
(by cognitive-behaviorists, that is), the focus would be on very directive and
active efforts to teach the patient how to *modify* the set of core beliefs
(sometimes called "schemas") that they hold regarding both their problem
behavior and the rationale for engaging in it. Procedures such as cognitive
restructuring, rational-emotive therapy, etc. are used in this regard.
Finally, in some cases, biological adjuncts may also be brought into play -
either via use of various medications (such as Anafranil or Luvox) found
sometimes helpful in the treatment of various types of obsessive-compulsive
behaviors, or as *antagonists* to these behaviors (i.e. used as aversive
conditioning agents). For example, if you're willing to consider various types
of drug addictions as forms of compulsive behavior (drug-seeking & ritualistic
usages), then it's not hard to appreciate the use in the past, for example of
Antabuse (disulfiram) in the treatment of alcoholism (both as an aversive
conditioning agent and as an alternative to the usual pleasurable effects of
ETOH). More recently, various VA Hospitals have been conducting research into
the use of aversive conditioning (either via use of various chemical or through
various types of aversive imagery) in the treatment of such disorders as heroin
addiction. In one such scenario, the patient views videotapes of various
phases in the addiction process (e.g. making the buy, playing with the
paraphernalia, shooting up, etc.) while being simultaneously exposed to various
types of aversive stimuli (see above) - the presumption being that for the
addict, all the various *behaviors* involved in the *habit* produce a *rush*
(i.e. intense positive reinforcement) and therefore if the initial acts leading
to drug useage can be successfully deconditioned via aversive conditioning, the
habit itself may be weakened and/or eliminated.
As regards sexual compulsions (especially ones that are illegal such as
pedophilia, rape, etc.), research (and treatment) has been conducted into the
use of such procedures as covert sensitization (a technique in which extremely
disgusting, nauseating and aversive imagery is paired with imagination of the
behavior one wants to eliminate) - with promising results. The advantages of
this type of aversive conditioning are that it's all done in imagery, and
therefore no physical danger exists.
>
>I know that in classical psychoanalytic approach, getting down to the
>formation point of the split that produces the compulsion as a
>stress-avoidant, or dissonance-solution, is seen as the keyl; yet that
>is, as Freud himself offered to the Psychoanalytic Society, often
>unsuccessful, as the compulsion often seems to take on a life
>(electrical/neuronal, possibly...) of its own.
>
>The behavioral approach has been very successful, I understand, with
>asocial compulsions (ankankastic repetition, etc), but what about the
>more social ones?
>
>Fascinating stuff...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
See above comments. Actually, one point of similarity between psychoanalytic
and behavioral approaches re. compulsive behavior is that both acknowledge the
role of anxiety-reduction in its etiology. However, the treatment methodology
is quite significantly different.
Bruce J. Richman
Secret Squirrel
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
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Paul Wagner
> As you point out, habits such as compulsive gambling and perhaps various types
> of sexual *addictions* and associated behavior are on what learning theorists
> would call a "variable ratio reinforcement schedule" (i.e. positive rewards
> received at variable intervals of time) - and this type of reward schedule is
> often even more powerful (in the sense that it encourages the behavior in
> question) than more continuous/frequent reward schedules. Given this state of
> affairs, these habits are notoriously difficult to treat and/or eliminate.
You put marks around the term addiction when applied to sexual
compulsions.
Do you disagree with that construct; ie, does it function behaviorally,
in your view,
differently than substance addictions do?
>
> That said, a variety of different behavioral approaches have been used to deal
> with various types of compulsive behavior - and sometimes these techniques are
> used in combination....
Very detailed run-through; thank you.
Actually, one point of similarity between psychoanalytic
> and behavioral approaches re. compulsive behavior is that both acknowledge the
> role of anxiety-reduction in its etiology. However, the treatment methodology
> is quite significantly different.
One thing I've wondered about in most dialogue between American
clinicians is that,
bottom line, only two of the world's major schools of thought involving
therapeutic change
are mentioned -- the psychodynamic, and the behavioral/cognitive.
Do you think it's wise for so many practitioners to ignore the other
two, both of which
are far older, at least in roots, if not in modern form -- ie, the
biodynamic, and the meditative?
I ask because it seems to me -- and this is not a fully-formed set of
thoughts, by any means --
that if one uses:
-- the meditative, which primarily deals with strengthening the
pragmatic focus of perception (ie, the stimulus phase...)
-- the psychodynamic/biodynamic, which together deal with the
emotive/cognitive while being processed (ie, the organization phase...)
AND
-- the behavioral, which modifies most strongly that which emerges after
the first two (ie, the response phase...)
one would have a pretty hefty total therapeutic package.
What are your thoughts on that?
Brian L. McCarty
----------
In article <19990820203256...@ng-fz1.aol.com>, bjri...@aol.com
(Bruce J. Richman) wrote:
> However, it's hard to draw any conclusions from RAO, given the fact that a
few
> compulsive liars here actually get reinforced
Given that "docter" bruce has yet to verify ANY of his so-called
"credentials", the compulsive liar label easily is applied to YOU, FIRST.
Verify your identity (which the State of Florida would NOT!) and then you
can offer an opinion.
If you are going to consider a purchase, read this carefully:
"Then as I began to read more of Mr. Zipsers postings on r.a.o., his
true nature became readily apparent. I seriously considered asking him
to remove any reference of Coda from his signature as I did not
believe that someone of his nature should be representing Coda."
"the principals at Coda no longer considered Sunshine
Stereo to be a dealer"
"...given the past bad experience with Sunshine
Stereo . . .Coda did not consider Sunshine Stereo a dealer. Coda, Continuum
or otherwise." STEVE EDDY, REPRESENTING CODA AUDIO
ZIPPIE CAUGHT LYING AGAIN!
Brian
---
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) is a proven:
Bruce J. Richman
>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>
>> As you point out, habits such as compulsive gambling and perhaps various
>types
>> of sexual *addictions* and associated behavior are on what learning
>theorists
>> would call a "variable ratio reinforcement schedule" (i.e. positive rewards
>> received at variable intervals of time) - and this type of reward schedule
>is
>> often even more powerful (in the sense that it encourages the behavior in
>> question) than more continuous/frequent reward schedules. Given this state
>of
>> affairs, these habits are notoriously difficult to treat and/or eliminate.
>
>You put marks around the term addiction when applied to sexual
>compulsions.
>Do you disagree with that construct; ie, does it function behaviorally,
>in your view,
>differently than substance addictions do?
>>
No. In my opinion, compulsive behavior, whether sexual or drug-seeking,
follows the same basic rules of learning theory.
>> That said, a variety of different behavioral approaches have been used to
>deal
>> with various types of compulsive behavior - and sometimes these techniques
>are
>> used in combination....
>
>Very detailed run-through; thank you.
>
>Actually, one point of similarity between psychoanalytic
>> and behavioral approaches re. compulsive behavior is that both acknowledge
>the
>> role of anxiety-reduction in its etiology. However, the treatment
>methodology
>> is quite significantly different.
>
>One thing I've wondered about in most dialogue between American
>clinicians is that,
>bottom line, only two of the world's major schools of thought involving
>therapeutic change
>are mentioned -- the psychodynamic, and the behavioral/cognitive.
>
>Do you think it's wise for so many practitioners to ignore the other
>two, both of which
>are far older, at least in roots, if not in modern form -- ie, the
>biodynamic, and the meditative?
>
While there are other, pehaps more historical treatment forms available, my own
philosophy is that overinclusion when either attempting to evaluate or treat
many of the complex forms of psychopathology (let alone more simple ones) tends
to lead to dilution of treatment efficacy. I have met precious few "eclectics"
(so-called) who have either the expertise or committment to practice concurrent
forms of therapy when treating a given patient. In practice, most of the
self-labeled "eclectic" practitioners I have met use this term to connote a
more socially-acceptable (today, that is) form of psychodynamic therapy
"modernized" with sprinklings of behavioral and perhaps other ingredients. IOW
- their philosophy and biases are basically psychodynamic and in the final
analysis (pun fully intended), that guides their thinking and approach.
Obviously, my biases are quite different.
>I ask because it seems to me -- and this is not a fully-formed set of
>thoughts, by any means --
>that if one uses:
>
>-- the meditative, which primarily deals with strengthening the
>pragmatic focus of perception (ie, the stimulus phase...)
>
>-- the psychodynamic/biodynamic, which together deal with the
>emotive/cognitive while being processed (ie, the organization phase...)
>
>AND
>
>-- the behavioral, which modifies most strongly that which emerges after
>the first two (ie, the response phase...)
>
>one would have a pretty hefty total therapeutic package.
>
>What are your thoughts on that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I think that the characterization of cognitive-behavior therapy as primarily
focused on responses is a stereotyped view not uncommonly found among those
with a psychodynamic bias. I also think it's an inaccurate viewpoint. For
example, I know of no other therapeutic procedure more painstakingly involved
with a fairly microscopic analysis of stimuli than Wolpe's systematic
desensitization, in which stimuli are arranged in hierarchical order (in terms
of their anxiety-inducing potential) using such variables as intensity,
duration, frequency, and a number of other qualitative and quantifiable
specifics. (See Wolpe, J. - The Practice of Behavior Therapy). Now in terms
of dealing with the cognitive/emotional connection, modern cognitive-behavioral
therapy approaches rather explicitly advocate the careful evaluation and
measurement of an individual's attitudes, core beliefs, etc. and their direct
causal connections with various types of emotional responses (e.g. anxiety,
anger, depression). Without wanting to bore everybody to tears, several
classics come to mind - (1) Albert Ellis - Reason & Emotion in Psychotherapy,
(2) Aaron Beck - Cognitive Therapy of Depression (and from the same author &
colleagues - Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorders), and (3) from David
Burns - and in paperback - Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy and, The Feeling
Good Handbook (the latter books are layman-friendly and very pragmatic in their
focus).
In short, whether adopting a psychodynamic (in the decline IMHO) approach or
cognitive-behavioral (in the ascendancy over at least the last 25 years IMHO)
aprproach, I think the need to, in a sense, dilute the treatment package (IMO)
by including too many ingredients is ill-advised. (Although it might be
interesting).
Finally, to get a really good idea about the multidimensional nature of
cognitive-behavior therapy (which totally contradicts the sometimes stereotyped
and simplistic views of its critics), I know of no better reference than a
classic by Arnold Lazarus entitled Multi-modal Behavior Therapy (not sure
that's the exact title but close enough). Lazarus came up with this ironic
acronym to describe the comprehensive application of cognitive-behavioral
evaluation & treatment:
B = behavior
A = affects
S = sensory experiences
I = imagery
C = cognitions
I = interpersonal relationships
D = drugs (this actually means, however, biological influences on all
the other factors above).
I try and follow this model in my practice.
Bruce J. Richman
Sander deWaal
>Sander, unfortunately I can't shed any light on your question.
<snip>
>Perhaps there is a physician reading RAO that could provide some suggestions?
Thanks anyway for your time, Bruce.
I appreciate it!
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Barry Rothman
"Brian L. McCarty" wrote:
>
>
> Given that "docter" bruce has yet to verify ANY of his so-called
> "credentials", the compulsive liar label easily is applied to YOU, FIRST.
>
I believe that even Gene Steinberg has accepted Bruce to be who he
says he is. Leaving you the only idiot in the village. Which, in
fact, makes you the definitive Village Idiot.
Paul Wagner
>
> ----------
> In article <37C088E9...@bellsouth.net>, Barry Rothman
> <brot...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > I believe that even Gene Steinberg has accepted Bruce to be who he
> > says he is.
>
>
> It's clear from Brucie's posts that he ain't no doctor.
I find it clear from his posts that he IS a doctor, and a very
experienced one, at that.
Brian L. McCarty
----------
In article <37C088E9...@bellsouth.net>, Barry Rothman
<brot...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I believe that even Gene Steinberg has accepted Bruce to be who he
> says he is.
I think Gene has only accepted that he is talking to a "Bruce" of some kind.
It's clear from Brucie's posts that he ain't no doctor.
---
Bruce J. Richman
>"Brian L. McCarty" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Given that "docter" bruce has yet to verify ANY of his so-called
>> "credentials", the compulsive liar label easily is applied to YOU, FIRST.
>>
>
>I believe that even Gene Steinberg has accepted Bruce to be who he
>says he is. Leaving you the only idiot in the village. Which, in
>fact, makes you the definitive Village Idiot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Barry, this idiotic antisemitic spammer was exposed as a slanderous fool a long
time ago when he began making his neverending series of unsubstantiated claims.
He's been challenged to publish his claims in an American print publication.
Apparently, when faced with a potential libel suit, this cretin disappears into
the slime from whence he comes - no guts, no evidence, and most tellingly, no
false statements for which he can be sued.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Dormer
>I don't recall finding a serious case of this in the psychological literature
>(although there may be some).
>
> However, it's hard to draw any conclusions from RAO, given the fact that a few
>compulsive liars here actually get reinforced (via attention, minor approval,
>etc.) for their behavior. For those with this habit, of course, even harsh
>criticism fills their need for recognition - as compared with lack of response,
>which learning theory, at least, would predict, would eventually lead to
>extinction of the behavior if applied consistently and over a sufficiently long
>period of time.
Good point!
Gene Steinberg
<opera...@worldjazz.com> wrote:
>I think Gene has only accepted that he is talking to a "Bruce" of some kind.
I have checked with the state of Florida and they confirm Bruce J. Richman
is a licensed psychologist, Brian. That's the beginning and end of it.
Whether or not you could get the same confirmation is not relevant to the
fact that I got it in about a minute flat once I knew which agency to
contact.
Bruce J. Richman
Generally speaking, when pathological liars with minimal intelligence such as
the hatemonger, Brian McCarty, spam RAO with their assorted libelous statements
about the professional identities of other posters, their agenda is pretty
obvious.
And it has *nothing* to do with any desire for facts. It's nothing more nor
less than the desparate need for recognition and approval from a few
like-minded and ignorant zealots who are here to promote conflict and
hostility.
McCarty's numerous falsehoods are a matter of public record here - and with
every libelous claim he makes, his *reputation* as RAO's resident hatemonger
and buffoon grows larger.
Bruce J. Richman
Arny Krüger
Sander deWaal <c...@wxs.nl> wrote in message
news:37bee3cc...@news.wxs.nl...
Of
> >course, in some cases, medications available in Europe or Canada are not
FDA
> >(Federal Drug Administration) approved for sale in the US and hence not
> >available here.
>
> The opposite is also (ook nog) true, sadly.....
> My wife would benefit from a drug called "Elmiron", tested
> and approved in the US, but not in Europe.
> This is a drug , used for treatment of multiple sclerosis,
> lupus, and immunity diseases in general.
> I don't suppose it's possible to order it (possibly with a
> prescription from an US physician) and have it sent to
> Holland, is it?
> Is there a possible alternative for this drug that's available
> here?
>
> I realize this is way off topic, but maybe you or someone
> else may know more about this?
There are alleged to be a number of web sites that will sell you pretty much
any prescription drug with minimal checking. Offhand, I don't know their
names, but I presume a little searching about might do the job. If I knew
something specific, I'd tell you in heartbeat because my wife is
suffering with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if there was a drug that would help
her that was unavailable, I'd do what I could to get it. Period.
Barry Rothman
"Brian L. McCarty" wrote:
>
> ----------
> In article <gene-23089...@ip204.phoenix10.az.pub-ip.psi.net>,
> ge...@genesteinberg.com (Gene Steinberg) wrote:
>
> > I have checked with the state of Florida and they confirm Bruce J. Richman
> > is a licensed psychologist, Brian. That's the beginning and end of it.
>
> Appropriation of someone else's identity is NOT a new idea. Given that the
> elderly woman who answers the phone at the doctor's number says he doesn't
> own a computer due to his bad eyesight makes a reasonable person wonder if
> this hasn't happened in this case.
I think you are on to something. I also did some checking and it
appears that the only Brian McCarty I can find listed as a recording
engineer apparently retired from the business due to the combination
of a hearing deficit and mental disorders. Supposedly he lives in an
institution in Australia, spending half his days manacled to a
radiator, and the other half heavily medicated. Perhaps you have
attempted to steal his identity?
Steve Zipser
says...
>
>
> "Brian L. McCarty" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Given that "docter" bruce has yet to verify ANY of his so-called
> > "credentials", the compulsive liar label easily is applied to YOU, FIRST.
> >
>
> I believe that even Gene Steinberg has accepted Bruce to be who he
> says he is. Leaving you the only idiot in the village. Which, in
> fact, makes you the definitive Village Idiot.
>
Barry:
I think you probably just pissed off thousands of village idiots around
the world. Where is McIntyre anyway??? ;-)
--
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9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
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Audible Illusions Straightwire Niles Oracle Faroudja Rega Benz-Micro RUNCO
Dunlavy Lexicon Zenith Mordaunt-Short EAD CleanLines Monster Seleco ESP
Nakamichi Genelec Solid Steel Camelot Salamander Audio Logic PASS DVDO NHT
jennifer
On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Steve Zipser wrote:
> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:49:24 -0400
> From: Steve Zipser <z...@sunshinestereo.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
> Subject: Re: Zipser attacks VIA EMAIL! Bad dealers should be BANNED from
USENET
>
ROTFLMAO To quote our unsung hero and importer of Net jargon
Steve Zipser
In article <Pine.BSF.4.10.990823...@jed.deltaforce.net>,
har...@deltaforce.net says...
Glad to see that one person got it!
Zip
trotsky
That's a pun, isn't it?
Steve Zipser
Greg:
The pun was about McIntyre - and his use of thousands of anonymous
handles - and the term 'thousands of village idiots'.
BTW, It was interesting reading about your excellent phono experience
with your new phono preamp. What table, arm, and cartridge are you
currently using with it/
Zip
Brian L. McCarty
----------
In article <19990822213652...@ng-bh1.aol.com>, bjri...@aol.com
(Bruce J. Richman) wrote:
> and most tellingly, no
> false statements for which he can be sued.
So your assertion of "slander" is unsubstantiated, you agree!
It would be easy for a REAL "docter" to verify his identity. Why would
Talahassee dispute your so-called "credentials"???
Brian L. McCarty
----------
In article <gene-23089...@ip204.phoenix10.az.pub-ip.psi.net>,
ge...@genesteinberg.com (Gene Steinberg) wrote:
> I have checked with the state of Florida and they confirm Bruce J. Richman
> is a licensed psychologist, Brian. That's the beginning and end of it.
Appropriation of someone else's identity is NOT a new idea. Given that the
elderly woman who answers the phone at the doctor's number says he doesn't
own a computer due to his bad eyesight makes a reasonable person wonder if
this hasn't happened in this case.
Sander deWaal
>There are alleged to be a number of web sites that will sell you pretty much
>any prescription drug with minimal checking. Offhand, I don't know their
>names, but I presume a little searching about might do the job. If I knew
>something specific, I'd tell you in heartbeat because my wife is
>suffering with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if there was a drug that would help
>her that was unavailable, I'd do what I could to get it. Period.
Thanks Arny, and that's pretty much how I feel about it.
But the prescription might just be the problem here.
Obviously, a Dutch physician couldn't prescribe a drug
that's not on the approved list here.
At this moment, I'm really thinking of flying to the USA,
get us Elmiron prescribed, and order a ton of it.
If life could only be that simple..........
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Arny Krüger
Before you buy those tickets, why not surf the web for one of these
prescription drug sites that do "minimal checking"? Our local TV stations
seem to find them quite easily. You might throw them for a loop by not
asking for Viagra, but it is said that they have online doctors who will
interview the patient online and write the prescription on the spot, if you
catch my drift...
Paul Wagner
>
> "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> said:
>
> >There are alleged to be a number of web sites that will sell you pretty much
> >any prescription drug with minimal checking. Offhand, I don't know their
> >names, but I presume a little searching about might do the job. If I knew
> >something specific, I'd tell you in heartbeat because my wife is
> >suffering with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if there was a drug that would help
> >her that was unavailable, I'd do what I could to get it. Period.
>
> Thanks Arny, and that's pretty much how I feel about it.
> But the prescription might just be the problem here.
> Obviously, a Dutch physician couldn't prescribe a drug
> that's not on the approved list here.
> At this moment, I'm really thinking of flying to the USA,
> get us Elmiron prescribed, and order a ton of it.
> If life could only be that simple..........
Have you thought of spreading the word for an American physician
visiting, say, Paris, who might appreciate a short, paid-for side-trip
and tour of Amsterdam?...
Paul Wagner
> > > I'd tell you in heartbeat because my wife is
> > >suffering with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if there was a drug that would
> > > help her that was unavailable, I'd do what I could to get it. Period.
The Mayo clinic, according to an old and rebellious MD I know, has been
testing colchicine -- the tried 'n' true gout drug -- for several years
now on
arthritis, with good replicated results. Seems there's something in
common about
the acidic body conditions that produce swelling from gout and from
arthritis,
and colchicine relieves both... one of the least expensive drugs there
is, and
not touted by pharmco's for that reason, arthritis experts aren't hot on
recom-
mending it....
Sander deWaal
>Have you thought of spreading the word for an American physician
>visiting, say, Paris, who might appreciate a short, paid-for side-trip
>and tour of Amsterdam?...
That's certainly a possibility......
But, even if he accepts to prescribe a drug that's
not on the approved list here, can we be sure that
we can actually order it, *and* get it shipped to Holland?
IOW, will it pass customs with a written receipt and
statement from said physician?
Questions, questions......but I appreciate your input, and we'll
look into it.
Thank you!
--
Sander deWaal
c...@wxs.nl
Jeff Adams
Maybe it's spelled differently, but my 7th grade science teacher gave
me some of that stuff to put on pumpkin blossoms to make them grow
humungeously large... Maybe it's something different...
-
======CORRECT EMAIL: remove the xyz======================================
| Jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com) | GTE Electronic Systems Division |
| 650-966-2122 | Mountain View, CA U.S.A. |
| All opinions are mine and not my employer or internet access provider. |
==========================================================================
Ravinious Lupinus
Gene Steinberg <ge...@genesteinberg.com> wrote in message
news:gene-23089...@ip204.phoenix10.az.pub-ip.psi.net...
> In article <E%0w3.6926$O_1....@ozemail.com.au>, "Brian L. McCarty"
> <opera...@worldjazz.com> wrote:
>
> >I think Gene has only accepted that he is talking to a "Bruce" of some
kind.
>
> is a licensed psychologist, Brian. That's the beginning and end of it.
> fact that I got it in about a minute flat once I knew which agency to
> contact.
It's pretty pathetic that in this day and age.. that Brian would have such
difficulting finding the correct phone number to call!
Bruce J. Richman
What's even more pathetic is that subhuman posters such as Brian have actually
conned a few gullible souls into even remotely considering their slanderous
drivel to be factual. In Brian's case, a combination of deliberate lying,
slander and stupidity have exposed him as the mindless character assassin and
spammer he is known to be on RAO.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Wagner
Any time... good luck!
Paul Wagner
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:01:16 +0000, Paul Wagner
> <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Arny Krüger wrote:
> >
> >> > > I'd tell you in heartbeat because my wife is
> >> > >suffering with Rheumatoid Arthritis, and if there was a drug that would
> >> > > help her that was unavailable, I'd do what I could to get it. Period.
> >
> >The Mayo clinic, according to an old and rebellious MD I know, has been
> >testing colchicine -- the tried 'n' true gout drug -- for several years
> >now on
> >arthritis, with good replicated results. Seems there's something in
> >common about
> >the acidic body conditions that produce swelling from gout and from
> >arthritis,
> >and colchicine relieves both... one of the least expensive drugs there
> >is, and
> >not touted by pharmco's for that reason, arthritis experts aren't hot on
> >recom-
> >mending it....
>
> Maybe it's spelled differently, but my 7th grade science teacher gave
> me some of that stuff to put on pumpkin blossoms to make them grow
> humungeously large... Maybe it's something different...
pharmacopia, I'm told,
so you may be right...
Paul Wagner
>... I think that the characterization of cognitive-behavior therapy as primarily
> focused on responses is a stereotyped view not uncommonly found among those
> with a psychodynamic bias. I also think it's an inaccurate viewpoint....
Measurements of success are made according to behavioral change, rather
than reported inner states. That's all I meant.
> In short, whether adopting a psychodynamic (in the decline IMHO) approach or
> cognitive-behavioral (in the ascendancy over at least the last 25 years IMHO)
> aprproach, I think the need to, in a sense, dilute the treatment package (IMO)
> by including too many ingredients is ill-advised. (Although it might be
> interesting).
You're demonstrating my point, and the point of my question: whenever
American clinicians discuss therapeutic approaches, they choose two of
the established four to talk about: behavioral and/or psychodyamic.
WHY? is my question, when the two other schools -- meditative and
biodynamic -- have been around far longer, and at least in the first
case, proven their results without question? Why this duality centered
around relatively new modernist approaches, when two other schools, far
older and better known, exist and are clearly efficacious?
Bruce J. Richman
>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>
>>... I think that the characterization of cognitive-behavior therapy as
>primarily
>> focused on responses is a stereotyped view not uncommonly found among those
>> with a psychodynamic bias. I also think it's an inaccurate viewpoint....
>
>Measurements of success are made according to behavioral change, rather
>than reported inner states. That's all I meant.
>
Clarification appreciated and accepted. No question about how therapeutic
success is measured - behavioral changes are an explicit variable capable of
measurement. What's interesting is how various behaviors correlate with inner
emotional state reports - e.g. depression can be measured by such variables as
the frequency, intensity and duration of crying spells, losses in appetitite,
decreases in libido, periods of sleeplessness, etc.
>
>> In short, whether adopting a psychodynamic (in the decline IMHO) approach
>or
>> cognitive-behavioral (in the ascendancy over at least the last 25 years
>IMHO)
>> aprproach, I think the need to, in a sense, dilute the treatment package
>(IMO)
>> by including too many ingredients is ill-advised. (Although it might be
>> interesting).
>
>
>You're demonstrating my point, and the point of my question: whenever
>American clinicians discuss therapeutic approaches, they choose two of
>the established four to talk about: behavioral and/or psychodyamic.
I agree that this is generally the case.
Further, I don't think this is a bad thing. I've told many of my colleagues,
not too mention several current and/or former patients, that I would personally
feel more comfortable referring somebody to a committed psychodynamic
practitioner than a clinician who characterizes himself as an "eclectic" who
uses "whatever works". I consider both behavioral and psychodynamic approaches
to be of sufficent scope and comprehensiveness to be applicable to a large
range of emotional and substance abuse problems. Of course, I also believe
that cognitive-behavioral approaches are far more effective - both in terms of
therapeutic success rates generally, and also in terms of efficency and
cost-effectiveness (an important consideration in these days of managed health
care - and I'm speaking as an HMO and PPO provider here).
>
>WHY? is my question, when the two other schools -- meditative and
>biodynamic -- have been around far longer, and at least in the first
>case, proven their results without question? Why this duality centered
>around relatively new modernist approaches, when two other schools, far
>older and better known, exist and are clearly efficacious?
>
>
I don't think there's a simple answer to the question you pose, but I'll give
you my views. (1) In the case of behavioral approaches, based as they are on
experimental psychology and empirical research, there is a *huge* body of
controlled experimental studies in the literature, to say nothing of extremely
influential textbooks by people such as Beck, Wolpe, Albert Ellis and other
modern psychologists and psychiatrists - these have, IMHO, had an enormous
influence on how the practice of psychodiagnosis and psychotherapy is taught
and applied in training programs for psychologists and psychiatrists. (2) In
the case of psychodynamic theory, while the research findings are relatively
scant, Freud's influence was undoubtedly huge for many years and of course,
even today, approaches based on more modern offshoots of his work (e.g. ego
psychology, brief psychotherapy, etc.) are still heavily emphasized,
particularly in the training of psychiatrists (along with their biological
biases, of course). In both cases #1 and #2, doctoral training programs for
psychologists and psychiatric residencies emphasize one of these approaches.
As regards "meditative" approaches, I'm not sure exactly to what you're
referring, but if you mean various Eastern philosophies (e.g. Buddhism) or
techniques such as transcendental meditation, I guess my answer would have to
be that for many health care professionals (at least in the West), I think
these approaches to emotional healing (a term I suppose they might use) are
seen as more spiritual or religious and less "medical" or "psychological" by
most Western practitioners - and more importantly, by those who train us in
doctoral programs and residencies. (And yes, I've done postdoctoral work at a
medical school (Temple) and interned at Mass. General and did postdoctoral
work there with assorted psychiatrists-in-training - so I have a good feel for
their training as well as my own). As regards, biodynamic approaches, I need
you to define that for me - do you mean, biological methods such as
psychopharmacological approaches?, or perhaps herbal applications (e.g. St.
John's Wort, Melatonin, Valerian, etc.)?
Older approaches? - probably. Better known, not necessarily - especially among
modern psychologists, psychiatrists and their patients. Effective? - no
argument from me that procedures such as TM, guided imagery, yoga, and various
psychotropic medications and/or herbal remedies can be effective for various
psychological problems.
That said, I still believe that, by and large, both the empirical evidence and
current literature is heavily driving the expansion and proliferation of
cognitive-behavioral methods in the treatment of a wide range of psychological
conditions. I am also willing to predict that as psychologists (the largest
group of cognitive-behavioral therapy practitioners by far) gain psychotropic
medication prescribing priviliges - a virtual certainty within the next 5 years
in the US - the combination of CBT techniques for serious emotional problem
solving (e.g. depression, substance abuse, personality disorders) with
judicious use of various psychotropic medications as an adjunct for symptomatic
relief will make the use of cognitive-behavioral methods even more widespread
than is currently the case.
One other factor contributing to their increasing popularity, at least in the
US, is the expanding role of managed mental health care (and I'm speaking as a
practitioner that has worked for some huge managed care companies during the
past 10 years as both clinician and "gatekeeper"). As you probably know,
cost-effectiveness is the major goal under managed care insurance plans - and
therefore demonstrable behavioral changes over a relatively short time frame is
considered a primary objective.
Bruce J. Richman
Paul Wagner
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:01:16 +0000, Paul Wagner
> <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >The Mayo clinic, according to an old and rebellious MD I know, has been
> >.....one of the least expensive drugs there is, and not touted by pharmco's
> > for that reason, arthritis experts aren't hot on recommending it....
>
> Isn't aspirin one of the most "touted" drugs for arthritis ?
Don't know......
Paul Wagner
>
> Paul Wagner wrote:
>
> >Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> >
> >>... I think that the characterization of cognitive-behavior therapy as
> >primarily
> >> focused on responses is a stereotyped view not uncommonly found among those
> >> with a psychodynamic bias. I also think it's an inaccurate viewpoint....
> >
> >Measurements of success are made according to behavioral change, rather
> >than reported inner states. That's all I meant.
> >
>
Bruce --
Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful answer; have marked it Unread,
and will respond early next week, after large birthday bash this
weekend... enjoying the conversation...
--PW--
Arny Krüger
greg pavlov <pav...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:37c9e7db...@news.dfci.harvard.edu...
If you believe the TV ads...
Jeff Adams
wrote:
Regarding Celebrex and Vioxx, I've heard differing stories. Both
doctors of course agree that they should hopefully be easier on the
stomach than previous NSAIDS. But one doctor said that they are no
stronger than any other NSAID, while another said that the doses are
higher since they are easier on the stomach and therefore you can
tolerate higher doses.
Edward M. Shain
Adams) wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:20:04 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>greg pavlov <pav...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
>>news:37c9e7db...@news.dfci.harvard.edu...
>>> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:01:16 +0000, Paul Wagner
>>> <paulw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >The Mayo clinic, according to an old and rebellious MD I know, has been
>>> >testing colchicine ....
>>> >.....one of the least expensive drugs there is, and not touted by
>>pharmco's
>>> > for that reason, arthritis experts aren't hot on recommending it....
>>>
>>>
>>> Isn't aspirin one of the most "touted" drugs for arthritis ?
>>>
>>
>>If you believe the TV ads...
>
>Regarding Celebrex and Vioxx, I've heard differing stories. Both
>doctors of course agree that they should hopefully be easier on the
>stomach than previous NSAIDS. But one doctor said that they are no
>stronger than any other NSAID, while another said that the doses are
>higher since they are easier on the stomach and therefore you can
>tolerate higher doses.
I've begun taking Celebrex and have found it to be *very*
effective. I have arthritis in virtually every joint, but particularly
in my hips and hands to the point that I have played very little golf
this year.
FWIW, The Celebrex has seemed to help much more than other
NSAIDs. I played this week-end - poorly ::sigh:: - with much
greater flexibility and much less pain.
Given what I scored, perhaps I should drop the drug
immediately ::grin::
Ed
Arny Krüger
Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
news:37cbba80....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
>
> Regarding Celebrex and Vioxx, I've heard differing stories. Both
> doctors of course agree that they should hopefully be easier on the
> stomach than previous NSAIDS. But one doctor said that they are no
> stronger than any other NSAID, while another said that the doses are
> higher since they are easier on the stomach and therefore you can
> tolerate higher doses.
>
My wife went from 200 mg Ibuprofen every 4 hours to 400 mg Naproxin every 8
hours to 200 mg Celebrex every 12 hours. Nothing but the latter made any
perceptible improvement. Not a blind test, of course.
George M. Middius
> My wife went from 200 mg Ibuprofen every 4 hours to 400 mg Naproxin every 8
> hours to 200 mg Celebrex every 12 hours. Nothing but the latter made any
> perceptible improvement. Not a blind test, of course.
The true cost of suffering Arnii's implants is at last revealed.
George M. Middius
Arny Krüger
George M. Middius <Glan...@ipo.net> wrote in message
news:37d1dd7e...@news.supernews.com...
Can we presume then that Ed's suffering comes from your "implants" in him?
Jeff Adams
wrote:
>
>Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
>news:37cbba80....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
>>
>> Regarding Celebrex and Vioxx, I've heard differing stories. Both
>> doctors of course agree that they should hopefully be easier on the
>> stomach than previous NSAIDS. But one doctor said that they are no
>> stronger than any other NSAID, while another said that the doses are
>> higher since they are easier on the stomach and therefore you can
>> tolerate higher doses.
>>
>
>My wife went from 200 mg Ibuprofen every 4 hours to 400 mg Naproxin every 8
>hours to 200 mg Celebrex every 12 hours. Nothing but the latter made any
>perceptible improvement. Not a blind test, of course.
I'm glad it's helping. I tried Celebrex (200 mg 2x daily) and didn't
see any improvement, then I tried Vioxx (25 mg once/day) and I think
it's helping. I guess you shouldn't mess with what's working, but she
might want to try Vioxx too just to see if it's even better.
George M. Middius
> > The true cost of suffering Arnii's implants is at last revealed.
> Can we presume then that Ed's suffering comes from your "implants" in him?
Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
Your Filthfulness?
George M. Middius
Arny Krüger
George M. Middius <Glan...@cais.net> wrote in message
news:37fe2c41....@newsreader.cais.net...
Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at Dulles
airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
Arny Krüger
> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:18:59 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
> >news:37cbba80....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
> >>
> >> Regarding Celebrex and Vioxx, I've heard differing stories. Both
> >> doctors of course agree that they should hopefully be easier on the
> >> stomach than previous NSAIDS. But one doctor said that they are no
> >> stronger than any other NSAID, while another said that the doses are
> >> higher since they are easier on the stomach and therefore you can
> >> tolerate higher doses.
> >>
> >
> >My wife went from 200 mg Ibuprofen every 4 hours to 400 mg Naproxin
every 8
> >hours to 200 mg Celebrex every 12 hours. Nothing but the latter made any
> >perceptible improvement. Not a blind test, of course.
>
> I'm glad it's helping. I tried Celebrex (200 mg 2x daily) and didn't
> see any improvement, then I tried Vioxx (25 mg once/day) and I think
> it's helping. I guess you shouldn't mess with what's working, but she
> might want to try Vioxx too just to see if it's even better.
>
I duuno. I leave that stuff up to people who are trained in doing that sort
of thing. She just picked up a new bottle of pills last night. I'll have to
see what is in it.
I think we're going to find out with RA what we found out with so many other
diseases. Its not one disease but many. Thus the appropriate treatment
varies with the case.
trotsky
"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Delusionalborg rants again.
>
> > > The true cost of suffering Arnii's implants is at last revealed.
>
> > Can we presume then that Ed's suffering comes from your "implants" in him?
>
> Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> Your Filthfulness?
Hey, it was the "Christian" thing to do.
George M. Middius
> > > Can we presume then that Ed's suffering comes from your "implants" in him?
> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> > Your Filthfulness?
> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at Dulles
> airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
Yoon-Yoon, isn't this dehumanizing? Rev. Adams, please lecture
Arnii on being a "Christian".
Diggun, do see if you can give Arnii greater satisfaction.
He's confusing RAO with a tearoom.
[This post reformatted by the Resistance, laboring
tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet]
George M. Middius
George M. Middius
> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> > Your Filthfulness?
> Hey, it was the "Christian" thing to do.
Perhaps Arnii will keep us posted on his imminent divorce from
the Kroobitch. I'm betting the "irreconciliable differences"
tack will seem quite reasonable to the judge.
George M. Middius
Edward M. Shain
wrote:
>> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
>> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at Dulles
>> airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
But, of course, I do, Arnold. It's only a mystery to you,
just as it's beyond you to understand why JJ and I enjoy such a good
relationship, or that Ken Kantor and I enjoy each other's company so
much, or Jeff Adams, or Roy, or Jim Sanders, or Barry, or Greg, or
Marc Blank or Glenn Z or Zip.
Even if I were to catalogue all of George's virtues - and he
has many - you still wouldn't understand. Instead, you'd argue with me
about whether my perceptions were right or not, which would leave you
precisely where you are currently: absolutely mystified.
So why not drop it and just accept it.
Ed
Jeff Adams
wrote:
>ClosetCaseBorg trolls for tricks.
>> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
>> > Your Filthfulness?
>
>> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
>> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at Dulles
>> airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
>
>Yoon-Yoon, isn't this dehumanizing? Rev. Adams, please lecture
>Arnii on being a "Christian".
You know I've tried and tried. Arny, is this an example of a post
where you sinned? Just curious.
"... whatever is honorable, ... whatever is gracious, ... think on
these things".
Phil 4:8,9
George M. Middius
> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me.
[snip of Wagner-baiting smutty innuendo]
> Even if I were to catalogue all of George's virtues - and he
> has many - you still wouldn't understand. Instead, you'd argue with me
> about whether my perceptions were right or not, which would leave you
> precisely where you are currently: absolutely mystified.
Ed, your observation suggests a little contest we can have here
on RAO. The goal: Suggest the best analogy for Arnii's
inability to understand human beings. I'll start.
Arnii Krooger's attempts to understand humans are like....
• Critical listening with infections in both ears.
• Hitching a Conestoga wagon to a team of 1,000 rats.
• Learning Latin by reading TV Guide.
• Designing audio equipment by testing sound cards.
I feel I've hit some serious long balls here. However, I won't
claim my prize just yet.
George M. Middius
Edward M. Shain
wrote:
>Edward M. Shain said:
>
>> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me.
>[snip of Wagner-baiting smutty innuendo]
>
>> Even if I were to catalogue all of George's virtues - and he
>> has many - you still wouldn't understand. Instead, you'd argue with me
>> about whether my perceptions were right or not, which would leave you
>> precisely where you are currently: absolutely mystified.
>
>Ed, your observation suggests a little contest we can have here
>on RAO. The goal: Suggest the best analogy for Arnii's
>inability to understand human beings. I'll start.
>
>Arnii Krooger's attempts to understand humans are like....
>
>• Critical listening with infections in both ears.
Eating Twinkies before a wine-tasting
>
>• Hitching a Conestoga wagon to a team of 1,000 rats.
Using a dixie cup as an anchor for the QEII
>
>• Learning Latin by reading TV Guide.
Understanding Kant by reading Archie Comics
>
>• Designing audio equipment by testing sound cards.
Using a Klaxon horn as a test tone
>
>
>I feel I've hit some serious long balls here. However, I won't
>claim my prize just yet.
"Conestoga" was a grand slammer.....
Ed
Steve Zipser
Vizsl...@worldnet.att.net says...
Smoking a joint in the White House.
Farting during silent meditation in schul.
Using an ABX box to enjoy music
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
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Arny Krüger
> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:42:16 GMT, Glan...@ipo.net (George M. Middius)
> wrote:
>
> >ClosetCaseBorg trolls for tricks.
>
> >> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> >> > Your Filthfulness?
> >
> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
> >> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at
Dulles
> >> airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
> >
> >Yoon-Yoon, isn't this dehumanizing? Rev. Adams, please lecture
> >Arnii on being a "Christian".
>
> You know I've tried and tried. Arny, is this an example of a post
> where you sinned? Just curious.
>
> "... whatever is honorable, ... whatever is gracious, ... think on
> these things".
>
> Phil 4:8,9
When you fall out of your ivory tower and stop attacking fellow christians
while being blind to serious egregious filth and slandering of the Gospel of
Christ, you'll get a little credibility with people who spend a little time
in the trenches than you do.
Now get back in that "Holy Huddle" and sing a few hymns until the Spirit
passes! ;-)
trotsky
Arny, you really need to discuss this stuff with your pastor--in fact I
think I'll forward this message to him. Bon Appetite!
Arny Krüger
Edward M. Shain <Vizsl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37d93fc5...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:42:16 GMT, Glan...@ipo.net (George M. Middius)
> wrote:
>
> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
> >> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at
Dulles
> >> airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
>
> just as it's beyond you to understand why JJ and I enjoy such a good
> relationship, or that Ken Kantor and I enjoy each other's company so
> much, or Jeff Adams, or Roy, or Jim Sanders, or Barry, or Greg, or
> Marc Blank or Glenn Z or Zip.
Not at all.
> Even if I were to catalogue all of George's virtues - and he
> has many - you still wouldn't understand. Instead, you'd argue with me
> about whether my perceptions were right or not, which would leave you
> precisely where you are currently: absolutely mystified.
Your perceptions are your perceptions. Obviously, many of them are
illusions, but that's for you to struggle with, not me.
>
> So why not drop it and just accept it.
No fun in that. ;-)
Arny Krüger
trotsky <gsi...@mc.net> wrote in message news:37CD21DF...@mc.net...
Arny on being a christian (to that grand hypocrite Jeff Adams)
> > When you fall out of your ivory tower and stop attacking fellow
christians
> > while being blind to serious egregious filth and slandering of the
Gospel of
> > Christ, you'll get a little credibility with people who spend a little
time
> > in the trenches than you do.
> >
> > Now get back in that "Holy Huddle" and sing a few hymns until the Spirit
> > passes! ;-)
> Arny, you really need to discuss this stuff with your pastor--in fact I
> think I'll forward this message to him. Bon Appetite!
I think he'd hurt himself laughing! ;-)
IMO, there are way to many "Christians" like Adams. The good news is that in
my church, most of them have "gone to be with the Lord". They were saints,
but... We were killing off the spiritual lives of new Christians at a
prodigious rate until that happened. I still to get to contend with the
unfortunate consequences of some of their personal attacks, both public and
private.
Jeff Adams
wrote:
>Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
>news:37d13885....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:42:16 GMT, Glan...@ipo.net (George M. Middius)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >ClosetCaseBorg trolls for tricks.
>>
>> >> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
>> >> > Your Filthfulness?
>> >
>> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
>> >> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at
>> >> Dulles airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
>> >
>> >Yoon-Yoon, isn't this dehumanizing? Rev. Adams, please lecture
>> >Arnii on being a "Christian".
>>
>> You know I've tried and tried. Arny, is this an example of a post
>> where you sinned? Just curious.
>>
>> "... whatever is honorable, ... whatever is gracious, ... think on
>> these things".
>>
>> Phil 4:8,9
>
>When you fall out of your ivory tower and stop attacking fellow christians
>while being blind to serious egregious filth and slandering of the Gospel of
>Christ, you'll get a little credibility with people who spend a little time
>in the trenches than you do.
So, was that a "yes"? If while in the trenches you can't avoid
sinning, I'd recommend a break from the trenches. Or, why don't you
take my advice of several months back? Before you hit "send", read
your message again from top to bottom and ask the simple question,
"Would this be pleasing to Christ"? In fact, if you wait 5 minutes
before reviewing the post, that can help to.
-
=== CORRECT EMAIL: remove feg ===============================================
| Jeff....@gdfeg-es.com) | General Dynamics Electronic Systems Division |
| Mountain View, CA U.S.A. |
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=============================================================================
George M. Middius
You go, girlborg!
> In the same spirit, George, when are you and Ed Shain going to announce your
> impending nuptials?
You'll be the first to hear -- after all, you're desperate to
be maid of honor, right?
George M. Middius
George M. Middius
> > You'll be the first to hear -- after all, you're desperate to
> > be maid of honor, right?
> Don't you think my "sausage" might get in the way?
Wiggle those hips, GirlyBorg.
> In the same spirit, George, Which one of you gets to play "Frank" and which
> one gets to play "Alice"?
Cyborg humor, corrupted by Krooglish, sanctified by Kristian
morality. A more nauseating cocktail is hard to imagine.
George M. Middius
Arny Krüger
> trotsky said:
>
> > > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> > > Your Filthfulness?
>
>
> Perhaps Arnii will keep us posted on his imminent divorce from
> the Kroobitch. I'm betting the "irreconciliable differences"
> tack will seem quite reasonable to the judge.
> George M. Middius
In the same spirit, George, when are you and Ed Shain going to announce your
impending nuptials?
Jeff Adams
wrote:
>Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
>news:37d13885....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:42:16 GMT, Glan...@ipo.net (George M. Middius)
>> wrote:
>> >> Why Ed doesn't see you for what you are mystifies me. There has to be a
>> >> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at
>> >>Dulles airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of me! ;-(
>> "... whatever is honorable, ... whatever is gracious, ... think on
>> these things".
>>
>> Phil 4:8,9
>
>When you fall out of your ivory tower and stop attacking fellow christians
>while being blind to serious egregious filth and slandering of the Gospel of
>Christ, you'll get a little credibility with people who spend a little time
>in the trenches than you do.
So, what does your interpretation of how I act have to do with the
truth of what I say? My exhortation remains true regardless of
context. Do you disagree with my exhortation?
I am not blind to the serious egregious filth and slandering of the
Gospel. I speak out occasionally (and I am sorry if it isn't often
enough to suit you). However, when the unregenerate say blasphemous
things, it does not surprise me. After all, that's exactly how the
unregenerate are expected to act. However, what _does_ surprise me is
when someone who names the name of Christ acts like the unregenerate.
And an occasional slip would go unmentioned, but it's not
"occasional". I'm sorry we disagree on so much. I'm sorry you're not
open to working through issues with me privately. I'm sorry that my
exhortations and rebukes cause you so much difficulty. I can only hope
that someone can get you back on course and enlighten you as to the
true nature of personal holiness. I've said this a number of times,
and I'll say it again: I do not condone the actions of people such as
George, Greg, or Roy (when they behave inappropriately). Period.
However, your misunderstanding of scripture and subsequent behavior
brings the worst out in many people. When you behave in a provocative
manner, I'm not sure why you are surprised when others behave in the
same way in return. You claim you're just emulating Jesus. So what was
the reaction of the Pharisees? They tried to kill him on more than one
occasion. So again I ask, why do you act surprised when people on RAO
assault you verbally? If you display the fruits of the spirit, you
will find that people will, in general, respond accordingly. None of
this should be any kind of surprise.
Arny Krüger
> ClosetCaseBorg is itching to try out his early fall fashions.
> You go, girlborg!
>
your
> > impending nuptials?
>
> be maid of honor, right?
Don't you think my "sausage" might get in the way?
In the same spirit, George, Which one of you gets to play "Frank" and which
Arny Krüger
> PrettyLittleGirlieBorg loves "Goodbye Horses."
>
> > > You'll be the first to hear -- after all, you're desperate to
> > > be maid of honor, right?
>
> > Don't you think my "sausage" might get in the way?
>
>
> > In the same spirit, George, Which one of you gets to play "Frank" and
which
> > one gets to play "Alice"?
>
> morality. A more nauseating cocktail is hard to imagine.
>
In the same spirit, George, do you send your houseboy out to shop when Shain
calls?
Arny Krüger
Jeff Adams <jeff....@gdfeg-es.com> wrote in message
news:37ce8756...@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
> On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:09:35 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Adams <jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com> wrote in message
> >news:37d13885....@wlbr.iipo.gtegsc.com...
> >> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:42:16 GMT, Glan...@ipo.net (George M. Middius)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> > Are you suggesting that Ed and I have a carnal relationship,
> >> >> > Your Filthfulness?
> >> >
be a
> >> >> reason. He travels around quite a bit, maybe he switches planes at
> >> >> Dulles airport and you meet in a washroom. Beats the dickens out of
me! ;-(
> >> >
> >> >Arnii on being a "Christian".
> >>
> >> You know I've tried and tried. Arny, is this an example of a post
> >> where you sinned? Just curious.
> >>
> >> these things".
> >>
> >> Phil 4:8,9
> >
> >When you fall out of your ivory tower and stop attacking fellow
christians
> >while being blind to serious egregious filth and slandering of the Gospel
of
> >Christ, you'll get a little credibility with people who spend a little
time
> >in the trenches than you do.
>
> sinning, I'd recommend a break from the trenches.
I'd recommend the same for you, but you just don't listen.
>Or, why don't you
> take my advice of several months back? Before you hit "send", read
> your message again from top to bottom and ask the simple question,
> "Would this be pleasing to Christ"? In fact, if you wait 5 minutes
> before reviewing the post, that can help to.
I'd recommend the same for you, but you just don't listen.