Rules for tools - current position - Circular saws, and still wondeing which one
Gnube
into buying a powered saw of some sort, and quite probably a circular
bladed one. During this research, I saw the suggestion on a web site
or maybe two, that there are presently standards which are new or in
the throes of being changed, and quite possibly a little of both.
It seemed to suggest that a riving knife and brake were to be
considered basic "must haves" on new products. Indeed when talking to
a knowledgable sounding chap at the Screwfix tech. dept. it was
mentioned that they were looking into revising their product line with
a safety perspective being more to the forefront, or certainly that
area having an increased focus.
So can anyone shed any more light on this? I am wondering, should
those parts be standard on a new tool?
A further question, slightly as an aside, what kind of depth of cut
control should I expect to find on a circular saw, I've searched most
of the weekend for this info as well as other details, but most times
it never gets mentioned, apart from when the saw has no adjustment and
people suggest not buying that brand again. I am left with the
impression they really should all have it, but that perhaps it's now
so taken for granted, than no one bothers to mention it.
I don't understand why some describe the depth of cut as 60mm over and
60 mm under - over and under what? Why does this figure often seem to
be different from max cut figures where quoted? (lot's of this at the
B&Q site as an example)
I don't have a very big budget, and only want to make the decision
once, but I would like to be a bit better informed so that I know what
features I am sure to need and those which I'd be unlikely to miss.
I am pretty set on the idea that it will be a circular with a mitre
board as that would seem to get me all I need and most of what I would
like without paying out on a sliding compound mitre saw, which wont
get me longer ripping runs in sheet, which from time to time I may
well want to make.
I'm pretty useless with a hand saw, due to physical restrictions and
find that in using one I can have power with reduced accuracy, and can
do accuracy on thinner materials where the strength & stamina is less
of an issue, so a power saw levels the playing field for me enough to
get by a lot better, or at least that has been my experience so far.
I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
the ferm initially, but then I found the "Robust" 18Volt model (wish I
knew who really made the badged Robust one, it seems pretty well
speced from what I have been able to find out, but weighing in at a
quoted 13.2Kilos, it has me a tad worried as that seems very heavy
indeed.) I like the thought of not snagging or dragging a cable that
isn't there, but would also settle for a corded one should I find one
that I really am confident I understand the specs of. The Makita with
a see through dust collection box struck me as perhaps a bit gimmicky,
and it'd also be a bit harsh in price give I'd like to hang about
below the 150 mark if at all possible including a spare "fine" blade,
there are some below that which to me look like quite nice bits of
kit, but I have no experience with one to make a better judgement call
on it all.
Take Care,
Gnube
Dave Plowman
Gnube <dono...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
> the ferm initially,
I'd suspect a cordless circular saw to be a real waste of money for the
average DIYer. Most decent mains saws have a 1000 watt+ motor. No
practical battery one can match that for long. And just how often will you
be using it out of the range of a power point?
--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
David Hearn
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4c0ab5f1d8...@argonet.co.uk...
> In article <s8d0gvo3trsv1fong...@4ax.com>,
> Gnube <dono...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
> > the ferm initially,
>
> I'd suspect a cordless circular saw to be a real waste of money for the
> average DIYer. Most decent mains saws have a 1000 watt+ motor. No
> practical battery one can match that for long. And just how often will you
> be using it out of the range of a power point?
Also, the cordless ones I've seen have a significantly smaller maximum blade
size - I've often thought they just look like angle grinder size almost.
D
Toolmaker
"Gnube" wrote
> During this research, I saw the suggestion on a web site
> or maybe two, that there are presently standards which are new or in
> the throes of being changed, and quite possibly a little of both.
The standard for this is BS EN50144-2-5 which was last revised in 2000.
> It seemed to suggest that a riving knife and brake were to be
> considered basic "must haves" on new products.
A riving knife is a requirement, but not a brake. Safety on a circular saw
relies on a properly operating guard, as well as a sensible user.
>Indeed when talking to
> a knowledgable sounding chap at the Screwfix tech. dept. it was
> mentioned that they were looking into revising their product line with
> a safety perspective being more to the forefront, or certainly that
> area having an increased focus.
Safety is always a key issue.
> A further question, slightly as an aside, what kind of depth of cut
> control should I expect to find on a circular saw,
On most saws, this is built into the baseplate. The saw lifts at the rear
exposing progressively less blade through the base plate.
> I don't understand why some describe the depth of cut as 60mm over and
> 60 mm under - over and under what?
Don't know. Never heard this term.
>Why does this figure often seem to
> be different from max cut figures where quoted? (lot's of this at the
> B&Q site as an example)
Depth of cut becomes less as you use the mitre facility. At 45 degrees, the
cutting depth may have done down from 60mm to 40mm
> I don't have a very big budget, and only want to make the decision
> once, but I would like to be a bit better informed so that I know what
> features I am sure to need and those which I'd be unlikely to miss.
There are very few features on a circular saw. Cutting depth is related to
the blade. These saws are essentially very simple, so buy one that has the
cutting depth you need. Unless you are doing a lot of work, the saw will
last years.
>
> I am pretty set on the idea that it will be a circular with a mitre
> board
95%+ of circ saws have this
> without paying out on a sliding compound mitre saw,
Totally different tool with different application.
> I'm pretty useless with a hand saw, due to physical restrictions and
> find that in using one I can have power with reduced accuracy, and can
> do accuracy on thinner materials where the strength & stamina is less
> of an issue, so a power saw levels the playing field for me enough to
> get by a lot better, or at least that has been my experience so far.
Circular saws can be very dangerous. Look for a lightweight machine if you
are unsure of being able to handle a large one.
> I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
> the ferm initially, but then I found the "Robust" 18Volt model (wish I
> knew who really made the badged Robust one, it seems pretty well
> speced from what I have been able to find out, but weighing in at a
> quoted 13.2Kilos, it has me a tad worried as that seems very heavy
> indeed.) I like the thought of not snagging or dragging a cable that
> isn't there, but would also settle for a corded one should I find one
> that I really am confident I understand the specs of. The Makita with
> a see through dust collection box struck me as perhaps a bit gimmicky,
> and it'd also be a bit harsh in price give I'd like to hang about
> below the 150 mark if at all possible including a spare "fine" blade,
> there are some below that which to me look like quite nice bits of
> kit, but I have no experience with one to make a better judgement call
> on it all.
Forget cordless unless you need to operate away from a mains supply. The
battery life is terrible. Yes, they are heavy, but not 13 kgs. Also the
blades are typically 5" or 6" in diameter, rather than 7 1/4" which most
corded tools start at. This has a huge effect on the cutting depth.
Makita - great saws, but not good value for money, unless you are going to
be using it regularly. If you are an average user, you'd be better working
to a budget of nearer 50 to 60. Blades are easily available from Screwfix
amongst others.
RzB
Am I right in thinking that long periods of inactivity
are not good - yes/no?
How often will you be using it?
Roy
Michael McNeil
The main problem with the cheap cordless tools is the charger. The
really cheap ones are supplied with chargers that fail within the
first few days. Slightly more upmarket ones are slow and yuch! For the
same price you can get a nice 240v.
All you need to know about them is that the bigger they are the harder
they are to use. As with routers, the torque on start-up throws them
(to the right I think?) My ideal saw is a sweet little 240, I'll post
the specs after work tomorrow. I also have a big Makita that I rarely
use, it's nice to have it though. The modus operandi for them all is
virtually identical. Don't buy second hand they are so cheap -about 30
quid or so that it's not worth it.
I presume you will be cutting boards of not often much thicker than
3/4 of an inch? They are all designed with that in mind, so all that
60 mil over and under business is irrelevant.
If you want to stick it under your old kitchen table, remember to get
one that has a switch that keeps it on. (And bear in mind it will eat
your testicles if you let it.) That is the reason for the brake, as
there was one rather unfortunate incident reported on the telly a few
weeks back where the user put it down thinking the guard had come down
(they tend to stick, especially at maximum cut) It climbed up his
trousers and did him an unfortunate in the unmentionable.
One ace joiner I worked with in the good old days told me to take the
riving knife off when I took the Makita in on that site. I think I
have lost it now. It helps to cut deep along the grain if it's off.
And the guard is very sticky on that one too. I'll have to put a pair
of iron underpants on when I next use it. To be honest I love the
little cheapo so much I doubt I will use it much again.
I had a belt sander run up my sleeve once, another lad had a closer
shave with a planer - so it does happen.
Rob Graham
I'd back up very much what is being said about the idea of using a
battery drven saw. In rder to get a controlled clean cut, you need
the power and blade speed that can only coe from a motor of 700W or
more. If you are used to using power tools - drill, sander, paint
stripper, etc - then you should be well use to having a mains lead
around and it shouldn't present a problem. The only power tool that I
have a poblem with the lead is the hedge cutter and that cable does on
occasions get cut because I have a biggish hedge and after a while I
just lose concentration for a moment.
Yes batteries (Ni Cd) do not like being left doing nothing - crystals
grow and short out the internals basically.
don't be afraid of buying a cheap saw to get a feel of what it can do
- that's my philosphy and then save up for the quality tool when you
know what you can do with it.
Rob
Gnube
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <s8d0gvo3trsv1fong...@4ax.com>,
> Gnube <dono...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>> I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
>> the ferm initially,
>
> I'd suspect a cordless circular saw to be a real waste of money for the
>average DIYer.
?
> Most decent mains saws have a 1000 watt+ motor.
And then some from what I've seen so far.
> No
>practical battery one can match that for long.
Well no, but I'm not sure I'd be doing continuous work for that long
with it, primarily it's for a moderate slog on 3 laminate floors
(which will presumably not represent a huge challenge to even a
cordless, since it seems like mdf by the look of it and only 8mm
thick) Any use I get out of it after this is a bonus and it would only
be filling in for a handsaw most of time. I very rarely do cuts of any
great depth, but of course I would guess that could change.
> And just how often will you
>be using it out of the range of a power point?
Never, as I'm house bound, but I was more interested in the no cable
to have hassles with from a safety standpoint to be honest. Just
seemed that if it wasn't there, it wouldn't catch on things like the
ones on all the other corded items I have do, and since a circular is
without doubt the most overtly dangerous tool I'm ever likely to own,
then I felt it may help keep it a safe experience.
Of course corded is fine too, but I've just got a healthy respect for
the damage one of these things can do no matter what power source it
uses. I simply didn't want to give fate a helping hand in the wrong
direction, hence my interest in these type!
Sure seems than most have not tried one though. That's starting to
tell me something! ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
Yeah, mostly they are fine judging from the specs I have seen for the
project this is for, but I'm just not sure how much I'd use it after
that anyway, so it may not matter so much to me, then again I may
decide I like it lots and use one quite a bit after this, but it's a
fair point you make nonetheless.
Thanks.
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
wrote:
>Is it also the case that batteries like to be used regularly?
Not sure yet, could be.
>Am I right in thinking that long periods of inactivity
>are not good - yes/no?
It can in part be down to cells used, and since one of them has
slightly heftier sanyos then it may be less of a problem, but frequent
cycling can help a lot in this area. I may not know saws much, but
I've played with nicads for years. I'm always learning about those,
and while they're not perfect technology, they're pretty hard to beat
for the things they allow you to do!
>How often will you be using it?
If I knew that, I 'd have had six numbers up last Saturday night! ;O)
Thanks for the thoughts though, everything helps at this stage!
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
McNeil) wrote:
>The main problem with the cheap cordless tools is the charger.
Hmmm £119, not sure if that's all that cheap or not for an 18 Volter.
Has two 1.9ah batts though, so maybe.
> The
>really cheap ones are supplied with chargers that fail within the
>first few days.
Well that's warranty thing, and I sure won't be trying to make a
living at this! ;O)
> Slightly more upmarket ones are slow and yuch!
Well they quote one hour charge, and I don't know what to do about the
yuch!
> For the same price you can get a nice 240v.
Oh yes, that's for sure, I've seen quite a few, still nothing "speaks
to me" yet though! ;O)
>All you need to know about them is that the bigger they are the harder
>they are to use.
Erm, is that bigger blade or bigger weight?
> As with routers, the torque on start-up throws them
>(to the right I think?)
Oh, I got soft start on that so I've been spared and spoilt! Had no
idea saws did it too - do they have soft start? Or does that not help
with saws?
> My ideal saw is a sweet little 240, I'll post
>the specs after work tomorrow.
Ah, thanks that should help!
> I also have a big Makita that I rarely
>use, it's nice to have it though. The modus operandi for them all is
>virtually identical. Don't buy second hand they are so cheap -about 30
>quid or so that it's not worth it.
Sure enough, I don't mind spending a little more if I can see why it
cost more, and that fits in with my overall plans.
>I presume you will be cutting boards of not often much thicker than
>3/4 of an inch?
I'd be amazed if I ever went over 12mm and for the most part mdf, with
maybe some ply now and again, the odd but of softwood, maybe a very
tiny amount of hardwood in smaller sizes (small section rails and
things)
> They are all designed with that in mind, so all that
>60 mil over and under business is irrelevant.
Well sure, but I just saw something I did not know about and wondered
if someone might be able to clue me up on that bit.
>If you want to stick it under your old kitchen table,
Hell no - way to risky for me, I'm sure it's fine for those that want
to though!
> remember to get
>one that has a switch that keeps it on. (And bear in mind it will eat
>your testicles if you let it.) That is the reason for the brake, as
>there was one rather unfortunate incident reported on the telly a few
>weeks back where the user put it down thinking the guard had come down
>(they tend to stick, especially at maximum cut) It climbed up his
>trousers and did him an unfortunate in the unmentionable.
It's not going to happen here, even if that means not turning it on
while in the same room! ;O)
>One ace joiner I worked with in the good old days told me to take the
>riving knife off when I took the Makita in on that site. I think I
>have lost it now. It helps to cut deep along the grain if it's off.
>And the guard is very sticky on that one too. I'll have to put a pair
>of iron underpants on when I next use it.
Sounds like exactly the sort of thing a "comedy woodworker" like me
should stay well away from! ;O)
> To be honest I love the
>little cheapo so much I doubt I will use it much again.
I'm just trying to find one I might like too!
>I had a belt sander run up my sleeve once, another lad had a closer
>shave with a planer - so it does happen.
Oh nice! Think I'll stick with the sanding drums! ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
wrote:
>
>"Gnube" wrote
>> During this research, I saw the suggestion on a web site
>> or maybe two, that there are presently standards which are new or in
>> the throes of being changed, and quite possibly a little of both.
>
>The standard for this is BS EN50144-2-5 which was last revised in 2000.
Ah, I may have misunderstood then - there's a lot to take in.
>A riving knife is a requirement, but not a brake. Safety on a circular saw
>relies on a properly operating guard, as well as a sensible user.
I'm trying to get things that way round!
>Safety is always a key issue.
I just like my extremity count fine as it is, and in the places it was
found when issued! ;O)
>On most saws, this is built into the baseplate. The saw lifts at the rear
>exposing progressively less blade through the base plate.
Ah, right, thanks for clearing that up.
>> I don't understand why some describe the depth of cut as 60mm over and
>> 60 mm under - over and under what?
>
>Don't know. Never heard this term.
>
>>Why does this figure often seem to
>> be different from max cut figures where quoted? (lot's of this at the
>> B&Q site as an example)
here's just one example from many, bottom of the details in this page
http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID=150675&paintCatId=&CATID=62440
Most of the circulars there have this somewhere on the details page.
>Depth of cut becomes less as you use the mitre facility. At 45 degrees, the
>cutting depth may have done down from 60mm to 40mm
Yes, I sussed that one, it was the discrepancy between those figures
and the 60 over and under thing that had me foxed. Still has to be
honest.
>There are very few features on a circular saw. Cutting depth is related to
>the blade. These saws are essentially very simple, so buy one that has the
>cutting depth you need. Unless you are doing a lot of work, the saw will
>last years.
Sure, I noticed that there are more blade choices with the 30mm bore
size, but that 16 mm bore seems to be served fairly well too.
>> I am pretty set on the idea that it will be a circular with a mitre
>> board
>
>95%+ of circ saws have this
I may have the wrong term I thing, I meant like this;
http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=109456
>
>> without paying out on a sliding compound mitre saw,
>
>Totally different tool with different application.
Yes, I wanted to cut 189mm X 8mm planks first and foremost, the
sliding compound mitres can make that cut, but that's also probably
going to be a less quality but more complex saw than some of the
circulars using the mitre board, which is why I changed to looking at
this combination, it's almost better suited for my primary need I
suspect.
>Circular saws can be very dangerous. Look for a lightweight machine if you
>are unsure of being able to handle a large one.
Absolutely, but one thought I did have, would a heavier one be less
prone to being deflected by kick back in the first place, or does it
just make for an even more interesting projectile to avoid given the
greater mass?
>Forget cordless unless you need to operate away from a mains supply.
Well, as I said elsewhere I just thought that no cord to snag or cut
might be an additional safety feature.
> The
>battery life is terrible. Yes, they are heavy, but not 13 kgs.
I just got it from the specs here;
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=32607&id=10174
This sure is a confusing lark picking one isn't it? <sigh>
> Also the
>blades are typically 5" or 6" in diameter, rather than 7 1/4" which most
>corded tools start at. This has a huge effect on the cutting depth.
Yes, I've been checking the cut specs to see they fall within what i
need to cut. Most do, but I have crossed one or two off the short list
due to this already!
>Makita - great saws, but not good value for money, unless you are going to
>be using it regularly. If you are an average user, you'd be better working
>to a budget of nearer 50 to 60.
Ah, right, that's a lot less than I have budgeted - SWMBO will be far
easier to placate!
> Blades are easily available from Screwfix
>amongst others.
Yep, found that collection!
Thanks very much for the insight!
Take Care,
Gnube
N. Thornton
> As you may have read elsewhere on the group, I'm currently checking
> into buying a powered saw of some sort, and quite probably a circular
> bladed one.
> It seemed to suggest that a riving knife and brake were to be
> considered basic "must haves" on new products.
> A further question, slightly as an aside, what kind of depth of cut
> control should I expect to find on a circular saw, I've searched most
> of the weekend for this info as well as other details, but most times
> it never gets mentioned, apart from when the saw has no adjustment and
> people suggest not buying that brand again. I am left with the
> impression they really should all have it, but that perhaps it's now
> so taken for granted, than no one bothers to mention it.
> I don't have a very big budget, and only want to make the decision
> once, but I would like to be a bit better informed so that I know what
> features I am sure to need and those which I'd be unlikely to miss.
>
> I am pretty set on the idea that it will be a circular with a mitre
> board as that would seem to get me all I need and most of what I would
> like without paying out on a sliding compound mitre saw, which wont
> get me longer ripping runs in sheet, which from time to time I may
> well want to make.
> I am drawn to the 2 cordless ones I have seen on the screwfix site,
Hi
I think many people spend too much on circ saws without realising
there are perfectly good ones about at very low prices. Some tools
vary a lot, like jigsaws, some dont: circ saws are basically very easy
to get right. The Argos Challenge is good, at about £30. It has riving
knife, depth of cut control, does mitering etc, has a solid steel
baseplate, soft start, dust output etc, and is ludicrously cheap.
It doesn't have a brake, but once the saw is lifted off the work the
blade is covered, so it seems unnecessary.
Power devil though - dont go there.
Oh, cordless ones, forget them. They have no hope of competing with
the mains ones, none. They also cost more, weigh more and dont last as
long.
Regards, NT
John Stumbles
After my neat little Elu 6" died (RIP :-) I bought a cheap (£35 B&Q
Performance Power 7") mains saw but returned it unused after taking it out
of the box and realising that it was just too damn heavy to use! I'm not
Arnie, and basically I need to be able to hold the machine comfortably with
one hand. All the other cheap saws seem to be similarly heavy 7" jobs.
In the end I bought one of their (B&Q's) 18V cordless jobs. It's very light,
even compared with the Elu (which, incidentally, bears a striking
resemblance in all but colour to a DeWalt). I've been pleasantly surprised
by how much oomph it has: it sails through even flooring chipboard, probably
because it has a razor sharp TCT blade (and it comes with a spare). The
downside of course is the battery: it only has one, and a 1 hour fake
intelligent charger (has red and green LEDs which make it look as though it
is switching to trickle after full charge but I suspect the red/green LED
switchover is on a timer and it does nothing to the charge rate).
As for the actually being cordless bit: I find it very handy to be able to
go outside to cut a piece of wood, where either the noise or dust is less of
a problem than indoors. I've even used it in B&Q's car park to cut boards to
get them on the van, when their in-store cutting machine's been kaput (as it
usually seems to be when you need it :-()
Regarding safety: the cordless can doubtless do a lot of damage but I'd
guess it might have a bit more trouble with bone than a f-off great mains
beast would :-/
If I were buying again I'd probably still go for a cordless, but one with 2
batteries and a decent intelligent charger.
hth
--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Cannibalize Legalists
Gnube
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>If I were buying again I'd probably still go for a cordless, but one with 2
>batteries and a decent intelligent charger.
What would you make of this one then?
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=32607&id=10174
>hth
It has, I'm not sure either way yet, but I know that every time I use
a cordless anything I generally end up using it all the time in
preference to the old corded version, and I'm in part wondering if I
may save myself buying one of each this time!
I'm just not quite sure if the technology has matured enough yet, I
think at 18V it's nearer on the money than the 12 or 14s ere, they did
have reduced battery life etc. but I've seen reports from American
users that reckon the 18s seem to have solved the problems mostly,
19.2 being slightly more favored but scarcer, and 24V being just to
darned heavy. I'm wondering if someone at Screwfix typed the weight of
the whole package in for the weight description, as in both batteries,
case and the charger! I may have a word with their tech tomorrow. The
other one they have is about 4 Kilos, not the jumbo 13 or so of the
"Robust" model. Wish I knew who really made it, it not quite like any
of the others, and some parts of the specs make it look like a halfway
serious beast given the battery thing anyway.
I'm real pleased you passed on your experience with one, it's been a
revelation to hear hands on views which are positive.
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
>I think many people spend too much on circ saws without realising
>there are perfectly good ones about at very low prices.
I've noted a fair number of seriously bargain basement ones, I'm just
a little concerned, as they are so potentially dangerous. I've rarely
been happy with cheaper tools, mostly been happy with mid priced ones
and sometimes been just plain had with dearer ones! I guess I'm doing
a crash course on finding some middle ground and felt that since I'm
not in a mad rush for a change, that I'd really explore all the
choices this time, like you always kid yourself you would! ;O)
> Some tools
>vary a lot, like jigsaws, some dont: circ saws are basically very easy
>to get right. The Argos Challenge is good, at about £30. It has riving
>knife, depth of cut control, does mitering etc, has a solid steel
>baseplate,
Seems ok,but I'm sure I saw somewhere than cast sole plates are an
advantage, not sure I can quite remember why though! ;O)
> soft start,
That sounds good based on what another was saying in here earlier.
> dust output etc, and is ludicrously cheap.
Sounds good. Actually it becoming clearer that what's a real problem
here is just how little info the makers and sellers put out on these
tools, whereas you guys have hands on experiences of quite a range of
makes and models, and that's helping get a pretty clear set of
impressions.
>It doesn't have a brake, but once the saw is lifted off the work the
>blade is covered, so it seems unnecessary.
Now why didn't I think of that, one wonders if a brake really is
needed, but I may have not thought it through properly yet!
>Power devil though - dont go there.
I was a tad concerned about the colour of one or two of the badged
ones! ;O)
>Oh, cordless ones, forget them. They have no hope of competing with
>the mains ones, none.
Well I am not quite clear why they would even try to compete, I feel
they are totally different beasts apart from the shape of the blade,
but they may have been an option was all I was thinking. Certainly
attractive in one or two areas, but then so are the corded ones!
Seems most are set against them but I'm not sure how many have tried
them or just heard they are not so good as they didn't say either way.
I suppose time will tell on that one - or not sadly! <shrug>
> They also cost more, weigh more and dont last as
>long.
Was there a particular one (or more) you had a bad run in with? I'm
not sure whether or not it's a generic problem given some have found
them more than ok, or if it is particular makes or maybe certain specs
that are causing the negative feedback. I've seen many posts about bad
ones with certain corded models/makes, but they were old posts mostly
and in many cases things have changed it seems as those same makers
now get good reviews and feedback, which suggests progress is being
made on them over time.
I must admit I don't often have the luxury of a lot of time to find
stuff out like this time, but I'm starting to wonder if this is a good
thing or a bad thing! ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
Dave Plowman
Gnube <dono...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > I'd suspect a cordless circular saw to be a real waste of money for
> >the average DIYer.
> ?
A jobbing handyman may well have to cut things some way from a mains
source. I don't think this applies often with DIY.
A cordless drill is somewhat different - it's power requirements for most
jobs are modest unlike a saw - you only have to look at the power of the
motors to see this. It also tends to be carried to the work, while a saw
will more likely be used in the same place most of the time.
I've got a fair selection of power tools, and haven't ever felt the need
for a cordless anything other than drill.
--
*Modulation in all things *
Gnube
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>Regarding safety: the cordless can doubtless do a lot of damage but I'd
>guess it might have a bit more trouble with bone than a f-off great mains
>beast would :-/
Forgot to ask, does that one have a brake by any chance, just
wondering, no idea of that's par for the course with a cordless or
not. And is it the one they currently sell, the casings on that look
rather similar to the ferm one. and almost a mirror image of the
dewalt, but could be intentional in a subtle attempt to gain customer
credibility, not that any tool maker would stoop as low as that of
course ;O)
I'm also wondering if cordless use worm drive or not as the speeds for
them suggest a good deal of variation. Some folks posts I've read
elsewhere seem to have a preference for worm drive, and I'm not yet
clear on how you'd find that out about any sort of circular.
Apparently it's more controllable, not quite sure why that might be,
but that's what I've seen some folk hint at. Maybe it's that start up
thing which is at play here.
Of the corded ones I've seen I like the look of the specs of the Freud
ones, but can't find much in the way of user comment so far, from what
I can see from web pics at Screwfix, they look tidy and maybe even
quite sturdy. Prices are not too bad either. Skil have a slightly
archaic look, but that's only skin deep of course. I'm starting to
think this may end up as a hands on trial situation to determine
comfort in terms of handle, balance, sight of cutting line and weight
etc. and that could prove interesting given my situation! ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
Andrew McKay
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>In the end I bought one of their (B&Q's) 18V cordless jobs. It's very light,
>even compared with the Elu (which, incidentally, bears a striking
>resemblance in all but colour to a DeWalt). I've been pleasantly surprised
You are probably referring to this one:
>If I were buying again I'd probably still go for a cordless, but one with 2
>batteries and a decent intelligent charger.
There seems to be a spare battery for this saw available:
A known problem with rechargeable NiCads is that they can only be
recharged a certain number of times before they lose their ability to
be charged. Something called "the memory effect" takes its toll, but
eventually you have to throw the battery away.
Andrew
Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk
Tony Williams
Dave Plowman <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got a fair selection of power tools, and haven't ever felt the
> need for a cordless anything other than drill.
The one that surprised me for vfm is the battery hedge trimmer.
My pal (with a very large garden) bought a Bosch last year. The
charge gives about 1 hour of cutting. The sheer convenience of
being able to just pick it up and nip out to give everything a
light haircut means that his shrubs and hedges look very good
this year.
The thing I have against such tools though is the trend towards
specialised battery packs and the cost of replacement (assuming
of course that replacements still available when needed).
--
Tony Williams.
Dave Plowman
John Stumbles <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> Performance Power 7") mains saw but returned it unused after taking it
> out of the box and realising that it was just too damn heavy to use! I'm
> not Arnie, and basically I need to be able to hold the machine
> comfortably with one hand. All the other cheap saws seem to be similarly
> heavy 7" jobs.
> In the end I bought one of their (B&Q's) 18V cordless jobs. It's very
> light, even compared with the Elu (which, incidentally, bears a striking
> resemblance in all but colour to a DeWalt).
I'm afraid you're not comparing like for like. There's no way a battery
tool can be lighter than the equivalent mains one. The answer must be that
no-one makes a small mains one anymore.
PP stuff does tend to be heavy, though.
--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *
Dave Plowman
Andrew McKay <E-7B777...@kazmax.co.uk> wrote:
> A known problem with rechargeable NiCads is that they can only be
> recharged a certain number of times before they lose their ability to
> be charged. Something called "the memory effect" takes its toll, but
> eventually you have to throw the battery away.
Memory effect is caused by repeatedly re-charging a Ni-Cad before it is
'flat' but is *way* over hyped. Most cheap Ni-Cads die because they are
rubbish and their chargers are nasty.
Good Ni-Cads, properly used and charged can give well over 1000 cycles.
DIY cordless tools get away with cheap batteries and chargers because
they get little use on average, and the average punter doesn't know how
long the battery should last.
--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *
RichardS
Gnube,
have read through most of the posts in this thread, and couldn't decide
which the best one to reply on...
A riving knife is essential, IMHO. It prevents the material being cut from
catching the trailing edge of the blade and causing kickback. Don't remove
it whatever you do! I'm less convinced that a brake is essential - I have
managed fine without one to date, and as long as you keep your concentration
and awareness of the blade until it stops spinning then you won't have
problems.
A smooth action for the guard is something that is essential, but you won't
really be able to know how good this is for each saw until you can try it
out - something that is impossible in the DIY sheds. For instance, my saw
(a DW62, which I would NOT recommend, for various reasons) has a guard that
always springs shut (keep this mechanism well cleaned and oiled) but when
using the saw it is smooth opening to a point, but sometimes needs an extra
shove to open the guard the whole way. As far as I can see it's design flaw
in the shape of the guard, and actually makes the saw less safe in use.
Go with a light, controllable saw - from the applications you talk about I
can't see you needing anything more than a 184mm saw. My brother has a big
230mm Makita, and I've used it a few times, and it's just too much of a
beast for day to day use. 16mm or 30mm bore doesn't matter too much - you
can get decent blades for both from the likes of Axminster.
You don't say exactly how much your mobility is restricted and whether
corded would be a significant hinderance to it's use, but I would echo the
thoughts of others and go for corded in preference to cordless. You won't
notice any difference in grunt when cutting laminate flooring, but may well
do when it comes to things like MDF. But I'd have to leave that to
experience of others with cordless models.
My thoughts are that with a circular saw (unlike a cordless drill) it isn't
the kind of tool that you should be picking up without a second thought and
launching straight into the job - each time you reach for it there should be
a deliberate thought process about how the cut is set up, where fingers and
limbs are in relation to the blade, safe body positioning, etc etc.
Therefore the additional thought about where the lead is trailing isn't a
great deal of overhead. It also gets used in the same location - at the work
bench/workmate/etc, wherever that's set up.
For the mitre box - have a look at the following, and decide whether you
need to splash out on such a thing:
http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
I've knocked up a couple of these jigs now, and they are just so simple and
quick to use. you'll need a couple of clamps - suggest the quick clamps for
holding the work to the bench and a couple of small F clamps for holding the
jig to the work (incidentally, you may need to reduce the depth of the saw
cut so that the motor clears the F clamps when using this jig).
There's a small Makita saw for about the £100 price point I think - I'm told
it's a much better tool than my equivalent DW (the repair place sees a
fraction of the number of them compared to the DW). However, you'd probably
be able to get a non-premium brand of similar spec for a lot less.
cheers
Richard
--
Richard Sampson
email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
use...@isbd.co.uk
> In article <gj62gv4a0kv2g4ou1...@4ax.com>,
> Andrew McKay <E-7B777...@kazmax.co.uk> wrote:
>> A known problem with rechargeable NiCads is that they can only be
>> recharged a certain number of times before they lose their ability to
>> be charged. Something called "the memory effect" takes its toll, but
>> eventually you have to throw the battery away.
>
> Memory effect is caused by repeatedly re-charging a Ni-Cad before it is
> 'flat' but is *way* over hyped. Most cheap Ni-Cads die because they are
> rubbish and their chargers are nasty.
>
repeatedly recharged by exactly the same amount at regular intervals.
The effect was noticed on some NICads used in a satellite recharged by
solar panels. Memory effect is vertually impossible in domestic
NiCads. As you say "Most cheap Ni-Cads die because they are
rubbish and their chargers are nasty"
--
Chris Green (cgr...@x-1.net)
Andrew Gabriel
"RzB" <Ple...@Reply.To.Newsgroup> writes:
> Is it also the case that batteries like to be used regularly?
> Am I right in thinking that long periods of inactivity
> are not good - yes/no?
In my experience, they don't like being left flat, but don't mind
not being used. Most batteries self-discharge, so if you don't use
them for a year or more, you are falling into the leaving them flat
category.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Dave Plowman
Tony Williams <to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I've got a fair selection of power tools, and haven't ever felt the
> > need for a cordless anything other than drill.
> The one that surprised me for vfm is the battery hedge trimmer.
> My pal (with a very large garden) bought a Bosch last year. The
> charge gives about 1 hour of cutting. The sheer convenience of
> being able to just pick it up and nip out to give everything a
> light haircut means that his shrubs and hedges look very good
> this year.
Yup - I can see a cordless hedge trimmer would be very useful as would a
chain saw.
But the very first thing I did when buying this house was to replace the
hedges with railings. ;-)
However, I was thinking more of basic DIY tools like drill, circular saw,
jigsaw and sander.
--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?
Dave Plowman
<use...@isbd.co.uk> wrote:
> If you research it "memory effect" *only* occurs if NiCads are
> repeatedly recharged by exactly the same amount at regular intervals.
> The effect was noticed on some NICads used in a satellite recharged by
> solar panels. Memory effect is vertually impossible in domestic
> NiCads.
Absolutely. I suppose it *might* have happened on a mobile phone which was
re-charged every night without the battery being flat, but even then I
wouldn't bank on it.
It's a very convenient excuse to pass the reason for a faulty Ni-Cad back
to the customer - "It's *your* fault for not looking after it".
Also, many think you should *totally* discharge a Ni-Cad before
re-charging to 'prevent' memory effect. This is the cause of many failures
in multiple cell types - ie just about all of them - because the cells
don't discharge evenly, and there's the possibility of reverse charging
one or more.
With a power tool, simply run it till the performance drops off then
re-charge. And don't charge it for any longer than the maker says -
shorter will do no harm.
--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *
RichardS
Sudden thought and wave of dread struck me as reading this thread - "damn,
I've left the drill battery on charge for 2 days"....
Thank heavens for the Atlas Copco Universal Charger - little LED flashing to
tell me charge was full, and battery nice and cool. Just hope it does what
it says on the tin.....
Gnube
wrote:
>have read through most of the posts in this thread, and couldn't decide
>which the best one to reply on...
Fair enough, nothing about this has proven totally straight forward so
far, so it figures! ;O)
>A riving knife is essential, IMHO. It prevents the material being cut from
>catching the trailing edge of the blade and causing kickback. Don't remove
>it whatever you do!
That's what I thought in the end, if it's there it stays there, if the
performance suffers too much for that, and unreasonably so, then the
saw would be returned.
> I'm less convinced that a brake is essential - I have
>managed fine without one to date, and as long as you keep your concentration
>and awareness of the blade until it stops spinning then you won't have
>problems.
I'm always that way with the router, so it's a habit I have now.
>A smooth action for the guard is something that is essential, but you won't
>really be able to know how good this is for each saw until you can try it
>out - something that is impossible in the DIY sheds. For instance, my saw
>(a DW62, which I would NOT recommend, for various reasons) has a guard that
>always springs shut (keep this mechanism well cleaned and oiled) but when
>using the saw it is smooth opening to a point, but sometimes needs an extra
>shove to open the guard the whole way. As far as I can see it's design flaw
>in the shape of the guard, and actually makes the saw less safe in use.
Makes you wonder just how much testing they put in with ordinary
people.
>Go with a light, controllable saw - from the applications you talk about I
>can't see you needing anything more than a 184mm saw.
This was why I felt the reduced blades on a cordless would not be such
a disadvantage as it may be for others.
> My brother has a big
>230mm Makita, and I've used it a few times, and it's just too much of a
>beast for day to day use.
Yes, that made me a tad wary.
> 16mm or 30mm bore doesn't matter too much - you
>can get decent blades for both from the likes of Axminster.
I've been looking into that for the last few days and it seems to me
that some of those places are not carrying the wide ranges they used
to, can't establish if this is temporary due to high demand yet
though, so it may prove nothing to be too concerned about.
>You don't say exactly how much your mobility is restricted and whether
>corded would be a significant hinderance to it's use,
I have had chronic back muscle spasms for about 15-20 years, and as a
result I have much less back muscle strength than most, this is ok if
you're upright (ignoring the pain as you get used to it after the
first 5 years or so!) but when leaning over as you might when working
on a workmate for example then it does not take long for you to have
very little "muscle time" left before you need to rest & recover, and
sometimes if you forget to rest, then you start losing strength pretty
quick, and it's at this point it would start getting pretty dangerous
as you could just collapse forward - of course being a tad over
enthusiastic due to being engrossed and having fun, you can easily set
yourself up for some truly dangerous moments without even realizing
it, since the pain arrives or increases mostly as you straighten up
again. This is one time where the sliding compound mitre would
probably pay off for me as I would not have to be supporting it so
directly so often.
All of this leaves me a little less agile than I am strictly happy
with! Dodging things is less of an option! ;O)
I got a few other issues too, but let's not bore ourselves to death
with it, I'll live! ;O)
> but I would echo the
>thoughts of others and go for corded in preference to cordless. You won't
>notice any difference in grunt when cutting laminate flooring, but may well
>do when it comes to things like MDF. But I'd have to leave that to
>experience of others with cordless models.
Again this is where the compound has some points in it's favour. Only
thing that could be vulnerable to is that one where something catches
a cord and drags said tool off whatever it's sat on, but again with
CMS clamped in a workmate or similar this is a less significant risk
I'd guess.
>My thoughts are that with a circular saw (unlike a cordless drill) it isn't
>the kind of tool that you should be picking up without a second thought and
>launching straight into the job - each time you reach for it there should be
>a deliberate thought process about how the cut is set up, where fingers and
>limbs are in relation to the blade, safe body positioning, etc etc.
>Therefore the additional thought about where the lead is trailing isn't a
>great deal of overhead. It also gets used in the same location - at the work
>bench/workmate/etc, wherever that's set up.
Actually, I may just have to bite the bullet here and accept the loss
of increased functionality that a hand circular can have (when used
with jigs etc.) over a CMS, and appreciate the extra safety gains I
get in exchange! So I may not be able to rip, but I'm a bit safer, and
that's not so bad a deal really!
>For the mitre box - have a look at the following, and decide whether you
>need to splash out on such a thing:
>
>http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
I did a few days back and made my first one last night this morning!
Made it for the jigsaw (whether it's any use for a jigsaw or not!)
just to see how it would be, pretty pleased with it too - it's what
I'd class as my first project as opposed to usual "comedy woodwork"
which is my trademark! Very happy about that :O) Put 3 screws in from
the underside and for a change I actually knew exactly where they were
going before they ended up there!
>I've knocked up a couple of these jigs now, and they are just so simple and
>quick to use. you'll need a couple of clamps - suggest the quick clamps for
>holding the work to the bench and a couple of small F clamps for holding the
>jig to the work (incidentally, you may need to reduce the depth of the saw
>cut so that the motor clears the F clamps when using this jig).
I like simple things like this, they just leave you with a wide grin
when you make them! I even sanded the wood to the point where it gives
off reflections! Totally not needed, but really nice when you do it
that way just for the sheer fun of it! ;O)
>There's a small Makita saw for about the £100 price point I think - I'm told
>it's a much better tool than my equivalent DW (the repair place sees a
>fraction of the number of them compared to the DW). However, you'd probably
>be able to get a non-premium brand of similar spec for a lot less.
Some have suggested I may not really get the value out of it, and I
suspect they may be right, I had it on the list for a while!
I'm down to two on the list now and if I can get some replies to the
dumb question I posted about an hour ago, I think it may see me
knowing which one I want. Actually, I think I know already, but I want
to check I'm not about to make a total howler over blades and the
future availability thereof. Could be the best saw in the world, but
if you can't actually get a new blade for it................ ;O)
Thanks for your thoughts, you've all helped me see this from enough
angles to make a far better decision, and to know why it is!
Take Care,
Gnube
parish
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:43:26 +0800, "Toolmaker" <not....@not.there>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gnube" wrote
>>> 60 mm under - over and under what?
>>
>>Don't know. Never heard this term.
>>
>>>Why does this figure often seem to
>>> be different from max cut figures where quoted? (lot's of this at the
>>> B&Q site as an example)
>
> here's just one example from many, bottom of the details in this page
>
> http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID=150675&paintCatId=&CATID=62440
>
> Most of the circulars there have this somewhere on the details page.
>
Hmmm, it states higher up the page that the max. cut depth is 36mm (at
90 degrees) and I can't see you getting anywhere near 60mm with a blade
that's only 136mm diameter.
A couple of guesses as to what it means:
1. It is erroneous, e.g. the web designer used another page as a
template and didn't delete that "feature" (and it got propogated to all
circular saw pages).
2. Maybe it refers to the *width* of the cut (from the edge of the wood)
and the fence is reversible; one way gives up to 60mm and the other over
60mm, or there are 2 different fences?
As I said, just guesses.
Regards,
Parish
Rick Hughes
"Rob Graham" <robkg...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:700de225.03063...@posting.google.com...
> "RzB" <Ple...@Reply.To.Newsgroup> wrote in message
news:<s9ycnRxvJrH...@tcp.co.uk>...
> > Is it also the case that batteries like to be used regularly?
> > Am I right in thinking that long periods of inactivity
> > are not good - yes/no?
> > How often will you be using it?
> > Roy
>
> I'd back up very much what is being said about the idea of using a
> battery drven saw.
I use a battery 18V saw for cutting drylining borads (fermacel) and it is
excellent, because it has low blade speed and a very thin borad it seriously
cuts down on dust.
If I used my 71/4" main saw the clod of dust makes work impossible.
Horses for courses - I wouldn't try to cut 32x2" with the battery saw.
Gnube
wrote:
>As I said, just guesses.
Glad it's not me left to guess alone on that then! It seems right odd
that does!
Take Care,
Gnube
Dave Plowman
Rick Hughes <rick_...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> I use a battery 18V saw for cutting drylining borads (fermacel) and it
> is excellent, because it has low blade speed and a very thin borad it
> seriously cuts down on dust. If I used my 71/4" main saw the clod of
> dust makes work impossible.
I've got a portable speed controller for things like this. It often gets
used on fixed speed power tools.
--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.
Michael McNeil
> On 30 Jun 2003 12:54:37 -0700, Weathe...@hotmail.com (Michael
> McNeil) wrote:
>
> >The main problem with the cheap cordless tools is the charger.
>
> Hmmm £119, not sure if that's all that cheap or not for an 18 Volter.
>
Cheap in my opinion was at the time I got stung with a Power Devil was
about £28. You can get good stuff for that price now.
> Well that's warranty thing, and I sure won't be trying to make a
> living at this! ;O)
How do you mean? If it fails in the first few days it will fail
whether you are just using it to hang a picture five years after you
bought it if it's the first time you use it.
>
> > Slightly more upmarket ones are slow and yuch!
>
> Well they quote one hour charge, and I don't know what to do about the
> yuch!
>
It's quite simple. The charger is a rectifier and it can fail very
easily. You won't know much about it in a cheap one.
> > For the same price you can get a nice 240v.
>
> >All you need to know about them is that the bigger they are the harder
> >they are to use.
>
> Erm, is that bigger blade or bigger weight?
>
What's the difference? Stop being silly and think you clot! Or have
you got nothing better to do?
> > As with routers, the torque on start-up throws them
> >(to the right I think?)
> > My ideal saw is a sweet little 240, I'll post
> >the specs after work tomorrow.
> > Don't buy second hand they are so cheap -about 30
> >quid or so that it's not worth it.
>
> Sure enough, I don't mind spending a little more if I can see why it
> cost more, and that fits in with my overall plans.
>
Why do I get the impression you are replying to a post you have not
read?
> >I presume you will be cutting boards of not often much thicker than
> >3/4 of an inch?
>
> I'd be amazed if I ever went over 12mm and for the most part mdf, with
> maybe some ply now and again, the odd but of softwood, maybe a very
> tiny amount of hardwood in smaller sizes (small section rails and
> things)
What sort of plans merit all this time wasting when going to the local
supermarket will find you a sweet cheap saw that will do what you
want? Why would you need all the bells and whistles for a toy?
My hand saw is a 6" Atlas AS 202 830 Watts.
But if you try and find reasonable tools on that screwfix link it will
have you stymied. The lad I work with bought one off them for £39. I
couldn't find it on their site. Then I plugged the actual name of the
thing (Toledo) in to their search box:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=16501&ts=01708
* 800W
* TCT Wood Cutting Blade
* Adjustable Tilt
* Safety Switch
* Cross, Bevel, Mitre and Compound Mitre Cuts
* 2 Year Warranty
Specification: No load speed 4500rpm. Cutting capacity at 45º 70 x
55mm. Cutting capacity at 90º 120 x 55mm. Blade 205 x 18mm bore.
Weight 7.2kg.
It is now £28. But Screw fix want to screw you so they only show the
expensive ones. Or have I got arse written all over my key-strokes?
Now here is my final advice to you. Pin your lug holes back because
you appear to need it:
You should have asked "what sort of saw do I need for a certain job?
Said job being very occasional."
You would then have had info on saw sizes and motor specs along with
the number of teeth required for the sort of finish you want.
(The more teeth the more expensive the blade but the cleaner the cut.)
The answer to that is that if you are daft enough to pay loads of wad
for a tool; for the same money you could have an 8" compound mitre saw
a 8" circular hand saw and a choice of blades to play with -for both,
with change.
N. Thornton
I read this post and your later one... few more comments.
Gnube <dono...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:
> On 30 Jun 2003 16:31:28 -0700, big...@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote:
> >I think many people spend too much on circ saws without realising
> >there are perfectly good ones about at very low prices.
> I've noted a fair number of seriously bargain basement ones, I'm just
> a little concerned, as they are so potentially dangerous.
Your reviews will tell you which one comes with safety concenrs, the
rest dont.
> I've rarely
> been happy with cheaper tools, mostly been happy with mid priced ones
> and sometimes been just plain had with dearer ones! I guess I'm doing
> a crash course on finding some middle ground and felt that since I'm
> not in a mad rush for a change, that I'd really explore all the
> choices this time, like you always kid yourself you would! ;O)
I'd get the cheapest one that is satisfactory in every way. It is
assumptions that have people paying 2 or 3 x what they need to. Anyone
in a retail trade can tell you that.
> > Some tools
> >vary a lot, like jigsaws, some dont: circ saws are basically very easy
> >to get right. The Argos Challenge is good, at about £30. It has riving
> >knife, depth of cut control, does mitering etc, has a solid steel
> >baseplate,
> Seems ok,but I'm sure I saw somewhere than cast sole plates are an
> advantage, not sure I can quite remember why though! ;O)
If compared to an inadequate bendy pressed plate, yes. The challenge
is one thick piece of metal, and doesnt move. Just make sure you can
lean on it and no detectable bending.
> > soft start,
> That sounds good based on what another was saying in here earlier.
I would put that down as almost essential.
> > dust output etc, and is ludicrously cheap.
> >Oh, cordless ones, forget them. They have no hope of competing with
> >the mains ones, none.
> Well I am not quite clear why they would even try to compete, I feel
> they are totally different beasts apart from the shape of the blade,
> but they may have been an option was all I was thinking. Certainly
> attractive in one or two areas, but then so are the corded ones!
>
> Seems most are set against them but I'm not sure how many have tried
> them or just heard they are not so good as they didn't say either way.
> I suppose time will tell on that one - or not sadly! <shrug>
> > They also cost more, weigh more and dont last as
> >long.
> Was there a particular one (or more) you had a bad run in with?
I think you've not got the point there. A cordless cant possibly
compete with the power output of a mains one, not by a long old way.
The result is it must use a coarse blade to make the most of its
limited output, and it will inevitably run slower and/or more weakly.
With your back I presume you need something that will get the job done
and over pronto, not drag on slowly.
Also nicads are inherently not long lived, whereas the mains equipment
is.
Thirdly to get a half reasonable amount of power takes a lot of
battery weight.
Fourth they cost much more.
Cordless circs are to be avoided when possible, that simple. Theyre
for when you have to go cordless.
With your condition I'd rather have a handheld than a bench one, as if
you do ever collapse on top of it theres more between you and the
blade on a handheld. With a bench saw theres just a raised guard, and
one that isnt intended to take your weight. Also with a handheld if
you let go the trigger with it working it will stop very quicky and
safely, and falling down will tend to take your finger pressure off
the trigger.
Handhelds are more versatile too.
Regards, NT
Michael McNeil
> http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID=150675&paintCatId=&CATID=62440
2 Blades but only one battery. No prizes for guessing if you will be
buying a series of batteries to get the most out of these blades. I'm
suprised they are not paying you for the initial purchase. Then they
screwfix you with the deal on spare batteries. Bades cost around £5 to
£10, batteries cost whatever they think you will pay.
B&Q probably pay some Chinese slave 5p per tooth for the blades. Or
rather the slave gets the opportunity to live another day and a meal
as well. The politicians and a series of middle men in China get the
pennies.
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?part=109456
Ooh! I want one. Guess what I'll be making soon.
Note too the size of the perfectly adequate circular saw which you can
pay £25 to £250 for.
> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=32607&id=10174
Yes, good joke. Paying all that extra for a bent pipe without the dust
bag attachment, when the dust extraction facility is the sawblade's
slipstream and gravity in common with the rest of the genre.
A fool and his money....
Gnube
>With your condition I'd rather have a handheld than a bench one, as if
>you do ever collapse on top of it theres more between you and the
>blade on a handheld. With a bench saw theres just a raised guard, and
>one that isnt intended to take your weight. Also with a handheld if
>you let go the trigger with it working it will stop very quicky and
>safely, and falling down will tend to take your finger pressure off
>the trigger.
You've made some great points that are clearly pertinent to my likely
usage, and in ways that I may not have seen for myself due to complete
lack of experience of the types discussed along the way, thanks muchly
for that. Especially the bit above.
I've made a decision based on pretty much all the comments of the last
few days; I'm going for a Freud 7 1/4" 1200W Along with the Axminster
mitre board, and I would have had a go at making that myself, but
since a good deal of work is going to be based off it in the very
earliest days, then I felt it better to get one that's professionally
made for that item, so the work is done right rather than lashed up by
my potential lack of accuracy, what with it being new and all.
Thanks all for the help you have provided, it has been deeply
appreciated.
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
McNeil) wrote:
Thanks you for your input.
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
McNeil) wrote:
Thanks you for your input.
Take Care,
Gnube
Gnube
McNeil) wrote:
>Why do I get the impression you are replying to a post you have not
>read?
>
>> >I presume you will be cutting boards of not often much thicker than
>> >3/4 of an inch?
>>
>> I'd be amazed if I ever went over 12mm and for the most part mdf, with
>> maybe some ply now and again, the odd but of softwood, maybe a very
>> tiny amount of hardwood in smaller sizes (small section rails and
>> things)
>
>What sort of plans merit all this time wasting when going to the local
>supermarket will find you a sweet cheap saw that will do what you
>want? Why would you need all the bells and whistles for a toy?
Just in case you missed it earlier in the group/thread, I am
housebound, I'd love to go play as you suggest, of course.
Take Care,
Gnube
RichardS
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:13:42 +0100, "RichardS" <noaccess@invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >You don't say exactly how much your mobility is restricted and whether
> >corded would be a significant hinderance to it's use,
>
> I have had chronic back muscle spasms for about 15-20 years, and as a
> result I have much less back muscle strength than most, this is ok if
> you're upright (ignoring the pain as you get used to it after the
> first 5 years or so!) but when leaning over as you might when working
> on a workmate for example then it does not take long for you to have
> very little "muscle time" left before you need to rest & recover, and
> sometimes if you forget to rest, then you start losing strength pretty
> quick, and it's at this point it would start getting pretty dangerous
> as you could just collapse forward - of course being a tad over
> enthusiastic due to being engrossed and having fun, you can easily set
> yourself up for some truly dangerous moments without even realizing
> it, since the pain arrives or increases mostly as you straighten up
> again. This is one time where the sliding compound mitre would
> probably pay off for me as I would not have to be supporting it so
> directly so often.
>
> All of this leaves me a little less agile than I am strictly happy
> with! Dodging things is less of an option! ;O)
>
> I got a few other issues too, but let's not bore ourselves to death
> with it, I'll live! ;O)
>
Ach, sorry to here that - I had a very brief taste of how painful spasms can
be following cracked ribs, and they were no fun whatsoever. Hope it wasn't
an impertenant question to ask.
Couple of thoughts, then. A brake on the saw becomes more of an attractive
feature as it will lessen the time when the blade is spinning if you were to
lose control.
Secondly, someone here will be able to say for definite, but if it's
possible to either buy or construct an extension cable with a zero-voltage
stop switch then that would also give you the facility to stop the tool
quickly should the need arise.
Lightweight saw with maximum grunt should enable you to sail through
materials with minimal strain on your back, I'd reckon.
Incidentally, coming back to your initial application, I just laid a
laminiate floor with the only power tools used being a jigsaw and cordless
drill (removing skirting). Good thing about laminate is that all the cuts
will be hidden by skirting or quadrant, so they don't have to be that
straight (or neat). Circular saw not essential kit for that job, but it is
a damned useful thing to have around.
Gnube
wrote:
>Ach, sorry to here that - I had a very brief taste of how painful spasms can
>be following cracked ribs, and they were no fun whatsoever. Hope it wasn't
>an impertenant question to ask.
Not at all, quite the reverse, in fact as a result there were further
points made by various posters that were even more relevant to my
particular situation, and that helped solve the potential problems
even better, some had not dawned on me due to having no knowledge of
rotary saws of any kind yet.
>Couple of thoughts, then. A brake on the saw becomes more of an attractive
>feature as it will lessen the time when the blade is spinning if you were to
>lose control.
Yup! Actually, I have placed an order or two now due a to a couple of
other things that arose out of the research and I more or less had
some of the choice made for me by circumstance!
>Secondly, someone here will be able to say for definite, but if it's
>possible to either buy or construct an extension cable with a zero-voltage
>stop switch then that would also give you the facility to stop the tool
>quickly should the need arise.
Yes, I'd half wondered about how they worked, and a mate of mine would
know for sure and probably help me get that organised I think. A good
idea.
>Lightweight saw with maximum grunt should enable you to sail through
>materials with minimal strain on your back, I'd reckon.
Yes, that does seem to be the way to go - went for a freud 7 1/4"
1200W and one of their pro blades for fine cuts. I guess I'll have to
take a chance that it actually has a brake. Looks a tidy enough tool
to be honest, so it may, but I'll just be extra thoughtful about how I
use it if not. Also went for the Axminster Tools mitreboard to go with
it and hopefully keep things under a bit more control still. A pretty
fine solution all round for me hopefully. A careful blokes SCMS if you
like! ;O)
>Incidentally, coming back to your initial application, I just laid a
>laminiate floor with the only power tools used being a jigsaw and cordless
>drill (removing skirting). Good thing about laminate is that all the cuts
>will be hidden by skirting or quadrant, so they don't have to be that
>straight (or neat). Circular saw not essential kit for that job, but it is
>a damned useful thing to have around.
My Jigsaw is used for roughing out a lot, as it CAN cut a straight and
square line, but persuading it to do so is quite a game, esp.
repeatedly over any great number of cuts. I think the CS and the
mitreboard is a good choice given I got rather a lot of them to do.
Thanks again for the points they all helped.
BTW someone else in another group additionally spotted another good
reason as to maybe why NOT go for the smaller bladed cordless ones -
given I am going to use a mitreboard, in practice since the saw runs
along rails above the workpiece, it may not have reached down low
enough to make the cut - we may never know for absolutely certain, but
it's a hell of a practical point he came up with! (slaps forehead &
feels foolish!) <g>
Take Care,
Gnube
use...@isbd.co.uk
>
> Yes, that does seem to be the way to go - went for a freud 7 1/4"
> 1200W and one of their pro blades for fine cuts. I guess I'll have to
> take a chance that it actually has a brake. Looks a tidy enough tool
> to be honest, so it may, but I'll just be extra thoughtful about how I
> use it if not. Also went for the Axminster Tools mitreboard to go with
> it and hopefully keep things under a bit more control still. A pretty
> fine solution all round for me hopefully. A careful blokes SCMS if you
> like! ;O)
>
like a good idea and I'm thinking of buying one.
(Also anyone else who has one of course)
--
Chris Green (cgr...@x-1.net)
Gnube
It's a great idea sure enough. The was a let down or two on opening
the box, however these are ONLY cosmetic, but it did annoy given how
avoidable these are in nature.
OK, first a fact, it is injection moulded polypropelyne. That said
this makes it tough as old boots in the same way skate boards are.
Sadly the moulds are in dire need of the attentions of a good tool
maker - I have in my time been a QC in an injection moulding shop, and
those shots would never have seen the outside of the factory on my
shift! There was flashing in places it showed and clearly should not
have been, like making bolt holes a bit tight, but nothing any DIY er
could not sort out in no time anyway, but my view is that at this
price, you should not be having to do that at all.
Assembly is really simple,and once you have followed the directions, a
first cut must be made in the somewhat rough sacrificial bed (a rather
ropey looking wooden plank in the slot provided, but since it's
immediately going to be ripped anyway for a cut reference line, it's
quality appearance wise is not that critical!) It's proportions were a
mil or two over length, but nothing dreadful and it held a fine edge
when first ripped, so it was clearly adequate if not to pleasing on
the eye.
In use it seems to make fine cuts in a straight line in the direction
of your choosing and setting. What's not to like?! ;O)
It states for saws of 7 /14" dia and over on the box, so make sure you
don't have one smaller! (I nearly did at one point too!)
There is an annoying quarter mm rock diagonally on the saw, but I have
not yet found out if this is the jig or the sole plate on the saw. It
does not make it's presence particularly felt on the finished work the
combination makes though.
Yes in the same situation I'd buy it again, but I will make others
based on it's dimensions for other tools etc, mostly for the utility
and partly for the satisfaction if I do manage to better it.
They got a retailers award (I can well imagine!) and they got a web
site - http://www.macboard.qc.ca/ - not checked the prices round the
world yet, but I bet it's a good bit lower elsewhere, but just not
quite worth the hassle of personal import, you'd probably pay almost
what it costs at Axminster! (funny how that often happens!) ;O)
In Use 10/10 - does what it says
Presentation 4/10 - needs a tidy up in the qc area, which would
transform the product you pull out of the box.
Value 7/10 - ok, it works, it's not bargain basement, and could be
nicer for so little extra effort on makers part, try making that cut
when you don't have one! ;O)
Hope this helps
Take Care,
Gnube