Printer seems unwilling...
Chris Mac
of a range of materials and have found it to be an
outstanding program...however, I have yet to find a
commercial printer who knows their foot from their mouth
when it comes to handling Publisher files. It seems that
even though they are handed off with most of their pre-
press work already done, there is an almost complete
vacuum of knowledge on their part about this software.
I have noted several individuals on this message board
(this is my first visit, I have generally just spent the
extra money in the past to have the printers develop a
twin to a hardcopy I generated locally)who speak highly of
working with the product. Surely software as popular as
this has companies that are familiar with it in most
metropolitan areas. If anyone knows of a printer worth
his or her salt that is comfortable with the software and
services the Toronto area, please advise.
![Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]'s profile photo](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/default-user=s40-c)
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
See if the following link helps:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher/printing.htm
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Chris Mac" <ch...@affair-rentals.com> wrote in message
news:0d3801c1af46$c2cfe2e0$35ef2ecf@TKMSFTNGXA11...
Mike Koewler
Using your link, I get no response from hitting "Go." Been that way for
a couple of weeks.
Mike
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61D120...@fuse.net...
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61D120...@fuse.net...
Mike Koewler
The site must be optimized (or limited) to IE users only. Entering a
city, state and zip and then clicking go does nothing. Clicking on a
link at the top left causes Netscape to freeze. If you have Netscape,
can you try it?
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
State and it was successful. I don't have Netscape. I know you have IE, you
might want to try that :-).
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61DE0A...@fuse.net...
Mike Koewler
It works under IE. But MS ought to realize (though maybe Bill refuses
to admit it) that not everyone uses Explorer. He's obviously been
listening to Mr. Tree, or perhaps he hired Del to design the site. Nah,
not enough flash animation.
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
web design for a browser that is not as superior, or hardly used.
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61E6D1...@fuse.net...
Mike Koewler
I would hardly call the site to check if a local printer supports Pub
files one that embraces cutting edge technology nor one that couldn't be
designed to accommodate Mosaic. It worked on the same version of
Netscape I'm using now several months ago, and it even looks the same.
To what good is it to not answer a query from Netscape? Will the user
wanting to get a Pub file printed decide to ditch Netscape and use
Explorer, or will they decide no one is capable and try calling
printers? MS makes what, $100 from every Pub program they sell? I'm
sure that for the cost of two or three CDs, Bill could hire someone to
make the site work for Netscape, Opera and almost all other browsers.
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
answers. And I am not about to get into a browser debate cuz I don't know
everything about browsers. Sorry. All I know is that Microsoft is designing
their sites around Internet Explorer. I am pretty sure that they have no
intent on making a select few work with Netscape, such as the one you
mention. I am only guessing that they are just applying IE only ability
across the entire Microsoft websites in due time.
Who knows. I don't :-(
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61EFD6...@fuse.net...
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
I just downloaded (ewe...kicking and screaming) Netscape and tried it. It
worked fine for me.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C61EFD6...@fuse.net...
joe
ch...@affair-rentals.com wrote on 2/6/02 2:44 PM:
> I have been using Publisher for 3 years in development
> of a range of materials and have found it to be an
> outstanding program...
not nearly as easy as profesional dtp software is
>however, I have yet to find a
> commercial printer who knows their foot from their mouth
> when it comes to handling Publisher files. It seems that
> even though they are handed off with most of their pre-
> press work already done,
with pub its just starting when the file hits the door
=>
>there is an almost complete
> vacuum of knowledge on their part about this software.
> I have noted several individuals on this message board
> (this is my first visit, I have generally just spent the
> extra money in the past to have the printers develop a
> twin to a hardcopy I generated locally)who speak highly of
> working with the product. Surely software as popular as
> this has companies that are familiar with it in most
> metropolitan areas.
you are correct, most shops are familiar with it. they have had the
headaches of trying to get high quality output form this software.
(dont get me started on the compostite rgd crap!!!)
=)
>If anyone knows of a printer worth
> his or her salt that is comfortable with the software and
> services the Toronto area, please advise.
sorry, im down south, shipping would probally eat up the cost.
my best advice would be to get into a .pdf workflow. get the full version of
acrobat and distill your .ps files to seperations for multicolor work, just
be sure to have crops on, and embed fonts. any printer should be expected to
make this work and you wont get that "damn publisher sux" look or possible
the extra charge.
=)
joe
Mike Koewler
It might be that it is designed for Netscape
Whateverthelatestversionis. I'm still using 4.something :-)
What's distressing is that the W3C once set standards. Netscape
violated almost every one it could find, but made surfing more fun and
coding easier. MS has tried to outdo Netscape, and now there are no
standards. And no one wins, as is shown with the site you posted. You
and I aren't gonna change anything, but I wish coders were more like
Tony Hearn - he makes it work for everyone.
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
I don't have a problem with standards. I don't have a problem with WHO
creates the standards. If Microsoft wants to create the standard, and it
works for me, fine. If someone else wants to make the standards and it works
for me, fine. Doesn't matter to me.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Mike Koewler" <wor...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:3C620890...@fuse.net...
Chris Mac
As a first timer to the message board, I have to say
I'm impressed and thankful at the many helpful responses
both to the board and via direct e-mail. The listing of
printers in the area will be especially helpful I'm sure,
my hat's off to Brian for that one.
Note to Joe, if you dislike publisher so much, why are
you on the support message board? Just wondering...
(thouÍ{ wÀ ïi n @ ú °ì~ gh maybe Bill
>| > > > > > > > > > "Chris Mac" <chris@affair-
rentals.com> wrote in message
>| > > > > > > > > > news:0d3801c1af46$c2cfe2e0
Scott Sackett
Chris Mac wrote:
> <SNIP>
Jim McCormick
Thanks
Jono Moore
j...@colorsourceinc.com wrote on 2/7/02 8:05 AM:
> Which news server supports comp.publish.prepress?
The news server through your ISP should have it.
...Jono
joe
ch...@affair-rentals.com wrote on 2/7/02 10:16 AM:
> Note to Joe, if you dislike publisher so much, why are
> you on the support message board? Just wondering...
its mostly two fold
1. to gleam any hints, tricks, and tips to make .pub files output easier
2. that since this is a M$ ng that maybe someone will hear my biggest gripe
about there softwaze....
<drum roll>
RGB COMPOSITE POSTSCRIPT FILE!!!!!
any more questions?
also, pub isnt all that you think it is in a profesional dtp workflow. srry
=)
joe
Lannis Loyd
pre-press industry for 16+ years.
First, I have to agree that Publisher is becoming just about as popular as
any of the Big 3 publishing programs based on installed user base, and
undeniably any shop which chooses to ignore these users will generally not
get the business from that share of the market. I am managing a prepress
shop for a mid size business for our area (2 presses & 7 copiers, 2 color
copiers) and have been accepting publisher jobs for about 4 years.
During that time I have had many easy publisher jobs, those destined for the
copiers and color copiers generally work fine, and if they don't, the
problem is usually found on the first copy off the machine and the time and
materials used/lost are minimal.
HOWEVER - when running jobs on the press, it has been a completely different
story. My expereince is that with the frequently lower level of
experience/apptitude for this business, coupled with the relative infancy of
Publisher as a true pre-press tool the jobs are (very) frequently costly to
run both because of the greater time involvement for the operator and
because many times, they simply don't run as expected. Now this is not a
simple issue to address, some times the problem is in the way the customer
built the file, many times it is in the way that the program behaves (or
mis-behaves) and all to often it is operator error. The cumilative effect of
this is low profitibility on those jobs and a generally demoralizing effect
on the people in the prepress shop. Nobody likes to make mistakes and nobody
likes to use a program that frequently outwits them.
None of this is to bash the program, it has come a long way, (and I remember
all too well what Pagemaker 1 was like on the PC). and is getting better all
the time. Further, the manuals clearly state that the intended market for
this program is office communications and "casual" publishing, not Designer
strength output. As we as pre-press people get better and more comfortable
with the program, we get better results - but it is undeniable that all to
often the solution that worked yesterday doesn't work today, and for many
shops, the extra revenue doesn't equal profit and doesn't justify the extra
effort and extra headaches.
Lannis Loyd
The Paper Tiger
www.ptig.com
"Chris Mac" <ch...@affair-rentals.com> wrote in message
news:0d3801c1af46$c2cfe2e0$35ef2ecf@TKMSFTNGXA11...
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
"also, pub isnt all that you think it is in a profesional dtp workflow.
srry"
Joe, how many projects and how long have you worked with Publisher?
"RGB COMPOSITE POSTSCRIPT FILE!!!!!"
http://office.microsoft.com/publisher/prepress/Sep2Comp/S2C2002.htm
Now that number 2 has been answered, we should only see you with # 1
responses.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"joe" <the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:B8888BA0.206FC%the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net...
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
Microsoft Publisher 2002:
Begin Quote:
Publisher is not intended to compete with high-end Desktop Publishing (DTP)
products such as PageMaker, Quark, or InDesign. Publisher does not have all
of the commercial printing features that the high end products have.
End Quote.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Lannis Loyd" <pt...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:uctFK0DsBHA.2084@tkmsftngp04...
joe
<unlike my post>
joe
in article uctFK0DsBHA.2084@tkmsftngp04, Lannis Loyd at pt...@qwest.net wrote
on 2/7/02 7:05 PM:
joe
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/7/02 8:10 PM:
> To respond to # 2:
>
> "also, pub isnt all that you think it is in a profesional dtp workflow.
> srry"
>
> Joe, how many projects and how long have you worked with Publisher?
>
Ive only worked with it for about 3 years and have only done about 100 jobs
in that time. We mainly handle film output and 4 color presswork for other
shops in town. We have had color houses that couldnt get pub files to output
call us. So we dont get the easy "copy" jobs, that would let publisher
shine. We're the shop that you call we noone else can help.
> "RGB COMPOSITE POSTSCRIPT FILE!!!!!"
>
> http://office.microsoft.com/publisher/prepress/Sep2Comp/S2C2002.htm
>
> Now that number 2 has been answered, we should only see you with # 1
> responses.
Im sorry that i didnt explain that i need the file so i can impose it.
<rant>
Why should I have to buy more software to work with a program that came from
OUTSIDE of the publishing world that does not even handle postscript
correctly. It just shows the arrogance of Micro$oft.
read this:
> Some imagesetters, RIPs, and printing devices have difficulty with the way
> Publisher embeds TrueType fonts.
Well, hell there is one reason people don't like publisher. Work with my RIP
because I am not going to buy a new RIP because of Micro$oft.
> Since Publisher does not embed Type 1 fonts at all, substituting Type 1
> fonts for TrueType will not resolve the problem. * If your Publisher
> PostScript files does not distill and the failure log indicates a problem
> with embedding fonts, set up Acrobat Distiller JobOptions with Font
> Embedding disabled.
Translated: We are Microsoft and you have to bow to us and break your
workflow to get our files to work.
</end rant mode>
=)
joe
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
It's not Microsoft that is arrogant. They are supplying a $99 program. If
they wanted a full DTP program, they could surely do so and offer the
program at $350 - $700. That is not their goal. We are talking high end and
low end. Publisher never claimed to be high end.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"joe" <the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:B8889D2D.207A7%the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net...
joe
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/7/02 9:22 PM:
> Joe,
>
> It's not Microsoft that is arrogant. They are supplying a $99 program.
And the idea that it creates a worthy files.
>If
> they wanted a full DTP program, they could surely do so and offer the
> program at $350 - $700. That is not their goal. We are talking high end and
> low end. Publisher never claimed to be high end.
I dont want highend i want my "2"...
COMPOSITE CMYK!!!!
(eventually they will listen)
<grin>
=)
joe
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"joe" <the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:B888AA6D.20823%the*removethis*ju...@bellsouth.net...
Jono Moore
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/7/02 5:10 PM:
> "RGB COMPOSITE POSTSCRIPT FILE!!!!!"
>
> http://office.microsoft.com/publisher/prepress/Sep2Comp/S2C2002.htm
If it works... I've heard pretty mixed reports of Seps2Comp working all the
time.
...Jono
Jono Moore
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/7/02 6:22 PM:
> It's not Microsoft that is arrogant. They are supplying a $99 program. If
> they wanted a full DTP program, they could surely do so and offer the
> program at $350 - $700. That is not their goal. We are talking high end and
> low end. Publisher never claimed to be high end.
My problem with that is that the information (about not being a professional
DTP program) is buried in the manual.
There should be a large note on the box which states this.
...Jono
chester chickenboner
prep...@hillsideprinting.com wrote on 2/8/02 5:29 PM:
> My problem with that is that the information (about not being a professional
> DTP program) is buried in the manual.
>
> There should be a large note on the box which states this.
In about 72-96 point type. ;-)
I believe that I might have found the issue of the printer lookup webpage
not loading for people. I have both Macs and PC's I found that when I
clicked on the link at http://www.mvps.org/publisher/printing.htm to find a
printer that could output publisher files it would hang with the spinning
ball on my Mac running IE 5.1. I even turned on Java to see if that was the
cause. It did not help either, but on my PC it loaded fine. So I noticed
that the link was actually pointing to
http://www.microsoft.com/office/publisher/using/printers.htm. I then
copy/pasted that link into my Mac browser and it loaded fine. It seems that
when you click on the link it does not work correctly but if you copy/paste
the URL into the browser it works fine. I don't know what is causing the
problems but it now works for me. I even tested it with an older version of
Netscape for Mac and it worked. I can also get there from the
www.microsoft.com front page and clicking down until I get to the publisher
section.
It seems that the link is causing the issues and not a Microsoft conspiracy.
;-)
Hope this helps.
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Jono Moore" <prep...@hillsideprinting.com> wrote in message
news:B88990EE.1EC7D%prep...@hillsideprinting.com...
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
end DTP program.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"Jono Moore" <prep...@hillsideprinting.com> wrote in message
news:B8899166.1EC7E%prep...@hillsideprinting.com...
chester chickenboner
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/9/02 12:32 AM:
> I beg to differ. There is not anything on the box stating that it IS a high
> end DTP program.
But it is being marketed by Microsoft as a program that creates files that
you should be able to take to any printer to output.
From the Publisher FAQ website:
> Publisher offers full support for commercial printing, including four-color
> separation and spot color printing.
I don't consider composite RGB "full" support especially when I have to
purchase other software to be able to output the files. (Seps2comp). There
are also some issues with the way Publisher embeds true type fonts also.
That is not "full" support either.
I know you are saying that the box does not state that it is a high end DTP
program but to the average Joe or Jane out there, the Microsoft marketing
department makes it sound like it works perfectly with printers and uses
that as a selling point.
I know that the marketing department will never but something like "this is
not a high-end DTP product" but don't think by not putting that on the box
it changes the fact that the marketing to the general public makes it sound
that way.
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"chester chickenboner" <che...@chickenboner.com> wrote in message
news:B88A5590.AD92%che...@chickenboner.com...
mact
>
> http://office.microsoft.com/publisher/prepress/Sep2Comp/S2C2002.htm
If it works... I've heard pretty mixed reports of Seps2Comp working all the
time.>>
I, too, have been unsuccessful getting proper CMYK separations directly from
MSPublisher. So I run it out to RGB Composite and let my Harlequin rip
handle the separations, setting light black generation and 300-310% TIC.
Works quite well.
Seps2Comp has trouble with certain constructs--suppose a spot color filled
text block on a black field. generate se[s, use seps2comp to reassemble and
you'll likely have white text. In Acro5 if you set view overprints it will
look OK, but it won't print correctly from Harlequin 5.3 (haven't checked
with Hqn 5.5 yet). Similar problems with white filled text vanishing, etc.
It has to do with the way overprints/knockouts are handled. According to one
PDF developer, what Seps2Compt tries to do is almost impossible.
It does work to create composite colorized images from XP, etc, etc. So it
is a useful tool, just not as useful as its $300-400 price would infer.
--
Mac Townsend,
Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, CA:
Electronic Prepress
www.adcomgraphics.com
chester chickenboner
mspub...@msn.com wrote on 2/9/02 8:11 AM:
> We will agree to disagree then :-)
I like that answer. :-)
RSD99
There is not anything on the box stating that it IS a high
end DTP program.
Then why do you, Brian Kvalheim, keep insisiting that it is?
- - - - -
"Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]" <mspub...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:eORnMtSsBHA.2412@tkmsftngp05...
mercedes mctaggart
> Brian,
>
> It works under IE. But MS ought to realize (though maybe Bill refuses
> to admit it) that not everyone uses Explorer. He's obviously been
> listening to Mr. Tree, or perhaps he hired Del to design the site. Nah,
> not enough flash animation.
You should be aware that Mr Tree (or Herr Baum as he is more
familiarly known to me from the time we worked together in a certain
Hamburg Ad Agency) is not a man to be trifled with. He has his ears
and eyes, Mr Koewler and his ways and means. Many a client who refused
to pay an outstanding invoice from Tree Enterprises Ink has lived to
rue the day they crossed Herr Baum.
I thought a friendly warning would do no harm :-)
You should also know that Herr Baum strenously denies any suggestion
that he is in any way intimate with Mr B Gates. That fact that the
London Evening Standard snapped them playing a round of golf at
Sunningdale last month only goes to show that Fleet Street hacks can
do wonders with Word Art and Microsloth Pubslasher.
Yours fraternally,
Mercedes McTaggart (RVP).
mercedes mctaggart
> It might be that it is designed for Netscape
> Whateverthelatestversionis. I'm still using 4.something :-)
Well, it's high time you got out more, Michael. :-)
> What's distressing is that the W3C once set standards. Netscape
> violated almost every one it could find, but made surfing more fun and
> coding easier. MS has tried to outdo Netscape, and now there are no
> standards. And no one wins, as is shown with the site you posted. You
> and I aren't gonna change anything, but I wish coders were more like
> Tony Hearn - he makes it work for everyone.
The reason they don't (and Herr Baum falls into this category is
twofold):
1. As Mr Kvalheim has pointed out - 93% of people with web access use
IE4x or later, so why spend time and money coding for the 7% who don't
when that time and money could be spent on adding more or better
content?
(in fact some stats put the figure at 96% but that's neither here nor
there).
2. Money.
Every website project has a finite budget. The majority of which goes
on design, structural requirements, navigation, content creation,
promotion, SEO and SER. What's left is used for cross-browser
compatibility. Unless there is a very good reason that money should be
spent on modifying code for the tiny minority who do not use IE it's
simply not done. You may not like it, I may not like it, even Herr
Baum, if he were honest, may not like it, but the reality is that's
it's the clients who call the shots. If their perception is that NN
users don't matter they get the short end of the stick. That's life,
Mikey baby.
So you'd better change your browser or get used to the fact that the
number of web pages you can view is going to get awfully small in the
next few years...
Love and kisses,
Mercy,
Mike Koewler
I hate to break the sad news to you or anyone else that feels IE is the
only browser that matters - I have not, to the best of my knowledge,
been unable to view a site using Netscape. And that includes Mr. Tree's
site that features the skull and cross bones for Netscape users. :-)
Having hung up my coding tools five years ago, I cannot argue whether
such Web Design programs as Net Fusion or Adobe's product produce a
standard page that can viewed by anyone with a browser that wasn't
installed in the previous millennium or not, but I would wager this is
possible. Using specific tags that exclude a group (gee, what is seven
percent of 300 million?) when those tags could be avoided hardly seems
prudent or an innovative way of attracting more potential customers.
It is not that I dislike Mr. Gates, rather that I started using Netscape
when Mosaic couldn't keep up with innovations.
And yes, you are correct, I do need to get out more often. I will do
that Wednesday, as I traverse the hills and valleys to deliver my 375
newspapers to avid readers with 2 quarters burning a hole in their
pocket or purse.
Mike
Brian Kvalheim - [MVP]
--
Brian Kvalheim
Email: mspub...@msn.com
Microsoft Publisher MVP
For FAQ's, Templates and More:
http://www.mvps.org/publisher
"RSD99" <rsd...@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:Opmgl1zsBHA.1772@tkmsftngp07...