Air Rage?
sfobs...@my-deja.com
passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has anyone
I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out there witnessed
air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks!
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
p3m...@my-deja.com
sfobs...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
> passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has
> anyone I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out
> there witnessed air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! >
Thanks!
The closest I've come is "air rudeness". A person would have to
be truly nuts to endanger the lives of 100+ people who are very likely
to kill him for it.
However, I doubt you've actually ASKED everyone you know...
P3
Rhonda
>
> I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
> passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has anyone
> I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out there witnessed
> air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks!
Well, I witnessed ground rage once.
They were packing people onto a Northwest flight, and I had a bulkhead
seat which turned out to be a front row seat for the show. One couple
was boarded and people were already in their assigned seats. They all
produced boarding passes and somehow there was a mix-up and four people
had been assigned to two seats (this was before boarding passes were
only issued at the airport).
The woman-half of the couple started to panic. The flight attendant said
to just wait in front and she'd see where they could be seated. The
woman was adamant that she be seated by her husband, and the flight
attendant said she could not make any promises at that point since the
flight was very full. The flight attendant was looking for seats while
the lady got more and more agitated. She started cussing at the flight
attendant, Northwest, and the situation in general. She said she was
afraid to fly and had to sit by her husband and she was not going to
take this from you ....ers.
After several minutes of nastiness, a gentleman came on board and told
the lady that he needed to speak to her in the jetway. Next thing I hear
from the jetway is the woman screaming at the top of her lungs that she
is NOT going to get off the plane, they can't make her, she has a
ticket, etc. Her voice kept sounding farther away, they must have
dragged her off or at least very firmly escorted her away from the
plane.
She reminded me of the line in that song -- "livin' in a powder keg and
givin' off sparks...".
--
-Rhonda
If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you do to it?
-- To email, please take off the "anchovies" --
W Yu
> I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
> passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has anyone
> I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out there witnessed
> air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks!
Had a chance to hand cuff an "air rager" once... :)
--
WY
[Remove the obvious for email reply]
Douglas W Hoyt
> I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
On a little commuter prop where they had just left the last standby
passengers on, a stewardess came and told the last one on that he would have
to give up his standby seat and return to the gate area. Everyone had
already endured a frustrating wait, and he made a big stink and and said he
wasn't budging. She said, "Well then I will have to get security," and
walked away. He grabbed his briefcase and ran out the door.
Mark Rogers
sfobs...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
> passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has anyone
> I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out there witnessed
> air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks!
The truly dangerous incidents are thankfully rare. We've had more than
a couple people removed from our aircraft before, however, and I've had
to once call for a police response to the aircraft after landing because
two of our first class passengers were about to start a fist fight with
each other while in the air. I also read at least 5-10 reports a week
about people removed from aircraft before pushback.
--Mark Rogers
Trad...@webtv.net
book!!
W Yu
<mmro...@tcsn.net> wrote:
> and I've had
> to once call for a police response to the aircraft after landing because
> two of our first class passengers were about to start a fist fight with
> each other while in the air.
Yes, the more space you give them the more they want it. Spoiled! Put
them in Y Minus and they'll be very happy... ;)
JOSEPH MASSARO
Kristofer Jernberg
any Airline, nor at any Airport.. Alcohol is the Only Reason passengers
become obstructive to other passengers in almost every Air Rage Case.
Drinking messes with a persons mind inferior to their sense of control,
and every person that has too much to drink on an aircraft, can be worse
threat to a DUI on the Highways, which I also oppose.
Kristofer Jernberg
krist...@webtv.net
mga...@my-deja.com
Toky...@webtv.net (JOSEPH MASSARO) wrote:
> onsouthwest-airlines-there-was-apassenger-that-became-violent-and-
was-subdued-by-other-passengers-and-was-killed-tokyojoe
>
No! Really?
;-)
(why all of the hyphens?)
mga...@my-deja.com
Arbitrary use of Capital Letters...
;-)
Justin Thyme
alcohol was originally served on planes to calm down those with fear of
flying.
Now it causes more problems than it solves.
I do not want to share airspace (at 30,000 feet) with any drunk, violent or
simply obnoxious.
Kristofer Jernberg wrote in message
<14182-3A...@storefull-268.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Dan Foster
W Yu <wei...@mac.com.REMOVE> wrote:
>In article <3A4501EA...@tcsn.net>, Mark Rogers
><mmro...@tcsn.net> wrote:
>
>> and I've had
>> to once call for a police response to the aircraft after landing because
>> two of our first class passengers were about to start a fist fight with
>> each other while in the air.
>
>Yes, the more space you give them the more they want it. Spoiled! Put
>them in Y Minus and they'll be very happy... ;)
Nahhh. The real solution to air rage, of course, is to build in small
jail cells on each plane :-) And of course, without a window view! Don't
even let them get off the plane first. Let all the people get off first.
*Then* a kindly police officer or two can step on :)
Hmm, there's a window of opportunity for the A380... mall, bowling alley,
couple jail cells, a baby diaper changing station, bar.... the more I hear,
the more I wonder where passenger seats are going to be installed, if even
at all :-)
-Dan
Deborah Stevenson
On 24 Dec 2000, Dan Foster wrote:
> Nahhh. The real solution to air rage, of course, is to build in small
> jail cells on each plane :-)
Then call them "private suites," charge an arm and a leg for them, and
smack anybody relocated to them for behavioral reasons with a huge bill
:-).
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
RO...@webtv.net
I saw a program tonight about Air Rage and something about it really
angered me. People were being arrested for inebriated and abusive
behavior by the airlines who were openly selling and serving them the
drinks which helped them get drunk!! The authorities admitted on the
program that being drunk was the major cause of practically "all" of the
air rage! Do the airlines make this much of a profit off of the
booze to play such a dangerous game with our lives in the air?
Another thing I found odd about the people being arrested was that they
seemed very surprised they could be arrested for being drunk and acting
abusive upon the flights. Maybe the airlines need to consider putting
up little signs on the backs of the seats stating that such behavior is
open to arrest and serious consequences. Fair is fair......especially
when the airlines are helping to activate abusive behavior with the
serving of alcohol.
Mary
Jo Jo
health, but they allow alcohol to flow like water making it possible for
a drunk to go on the rampage. Isn't that hazardous to our health?
stuart
a fight because of it. I dunno, is fighting or otherwise abusive behaviour
required when drunk?
<RO...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:280-3A4...@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Rhonda
>
> I saw a program tonight about Air Rage and something about it really
> angered me.
Mary,
I don't mean to make fun, but I loved your first sentence!
Seriously though, I do believe serving people a few less drinks might
help control the problem. Isn't it that one drink in the air is the
equivalent of three on the ground?
Mark Rogers
Kristofer Jernberg wrote:
>
> I believe that Passengers should not be permitted to Consume Alcohol on
> any Airline, nor at any Airport.. Alcohol is the Only Reason passengers
> become obstructive to other passengers in almost every Air Rage Case.
Alcohol had nothing to do with either the near fist fight I dealt with
in first class, nor the last three passengers we had removed from the
aircraft.
--Mark Rogers
Mark Rogers
RO...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> People were being arrested for inebriated and abusive
> behavior by the airlines who were openly selling and serving them the
> drinks which helped them get drunk!!
You're right - it is absolutely not the individual's responsibility to
avoid being abusive. Heck, they sold him the alcohol. They also
provided attractive flight attendants, so I'm sure rape is forgivable.
If the airlines really didn't want the passengers to barge into the
cockpit, why would they put the bathroom door right next to the cockpit
door? I'm glad that it wouldn't be my fault if I choose to go to the
local bar, buy drinks until I was drunk, then punch the bartender
because he wasn't coming to serve me fast enough.
> Another thing I found odd about the people being arrested was that they
> seemed very surprised they could be arrested for being drunk and acting
> abusive upon the flights. Maybe the airlines need to consider putting
> up little signs on the backs of the seats stating that such behavior is
> open to arrest and serious consequences.
Imagine that - getting arrested for being abusive! We should also put
little signs like "Say thank you when someone gives you something", and
"Wait your turn in line for the bathroom".
--Mark Rogers
JF Mezei
>
> First the airlines say: No Smoking, because it is hazardous to our
> health, but they allow alcohol to flow like water making it possible for
> a drunk to go on the rampage.
Airlines don't care so much about our health. They care about fire hazards in
planes as well as the fact that one smoker can inconvenience a whole lot of
people in a plane which means you have a whole lot of people who are likely to
switch airlines.
Also, many airlines are forced by their country to be smokeless.
JF Mezei
> Seriously though, I do believe serving people a few less drinks might
> help control the problem. Isn't it that one drink in the air is the
> equivalent of three on the ground?
The problem is that many will get those 3 drinks on the ground at the airport
ar because their flight is delayed. And then they get additional drinks on the plane.
Reminds me of Timber Creek in Northern Terrotory of Australia. Got there on a
Thursday. Big mistake.
That is the day families get their dole check. The "town" consists of the
police station and 2 roadhouses. Each roadhouse has a bar. The aboriginal
community is just outside of that complex.
Guess what the men do with their dole checks every thursday ? They spend it at
the bars and get throughouly drunk. Not a pretty sight when the police load
then into the cages on their 'utes. (utility vehicles). Since then, I have
felt that the government should send the dole checks to the 2 bar owners in
exchange for them closing their bars. Since the dole money is going to them
anyways, it would be far more productive since the men wouldn't get so drunk
and thus be far more productive.
But hey, those bars are the only place where the town men can spend their money.
Now, back to airports:
You're flight is delayed. Where do men go to spend the time ? The only place
they know where they can have some fun at an airport: the bar. Granted, this
isn't a dole issue, but it is still a problem of having men captive in an
airport with only the bar to spend time.
If they closed airport bars and replaced them with lounges, gyms, pinball
arcades etc, it might help reduce incidence of air rage.
Also note that the Air Rage programme indicated that the phenomena seems to
happen mostly on US-London flights. I do not know if this is true or not since
I have heard about Aussies being banned from flying Cathay because of their
misbehavious on planes (Tony Modra comes to mind when he made derogatory
remarks about CX FAs).
Kenneth Crudup
>I keep hearing about "air rage" and all these incidents about unruly
>passengers on airplanes. I haven't seen anything outrageous, nor has anyone
>I know, other than flight attendant friends. Has anyone out there witnessed
>air rage? I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks!
WARNING! REPORTER!
"I keep hearing ..." my ass.
-Kenny
--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Washington, D.C.
Home1: PO Box 914 Silver Spring, MD 20910-0914 ke...@panix.com
Home2: 38010 Village Cmn. #217 Fremont, CA 94536-7525 (510) 745-8181
Work: See: "Home2". The hell with slow Bay Area drivers! (510) 745-0101
stuart
aircraft because they are nervous and have problems with some level of
anxiety about flying.
"Jo Jo" <Jos...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6632-3A4...@storefull-217.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
terry
attendant in the US to have had an attempted sexual assault on her by a
passenger. This happened a few years ago. The passenger was in first
class, had too much to drink and mistakenly thought my cousin's polite
courtesy was a come on. He followed her into the galley and proceeded to
drop his pants and try to rape her. Luckily, my cousin's screams alerted
other flight crew and passengers who came to her aid and tackled the
drunk passenger. He was prosecuted and the airline managed to keep my
cousin's name out of the press.
She has many stories of passengers losing control. I regret to say, my
cousin let the job get to her and now she's a bitter, angry, sarcastic
person--quite sad really. She has a couple of years to go for her
retirement, she hasn't said as much but I suspect the airline has
received many complaints of her rude behavior toward crew and passengers
and they've put her on paid leave. Some of the stories she has told me
of what she has done to get even with rude passengers has shocked me.
I'm the most polite passenger in the whole plane when I fly as I do not
want to receive the same treatment. One of her favorite things to do was
spit in drinks. Anyone out there care to guess what her first name is?
Terry
Lou Minatti™
> My cousin works for a major US carrier. She was the first flight
> attendant in the US to have had an attempted sexual assault on her by a
> passenger.
I am skeptical of this. Did you leave something out?
--
Watching You Dot Com
http://www.watchingyou.com
terry
the passenger.
Terry
ejroyc...@mindspring.com
Here's the story:;-) ;-);-);-);-) Hehehehehe!!!!!!!!
http://www.salon.com/business/col/hest/2000/09/08/hell/index.html
Erik R.
Rhonda
>
>
> You're right - it is absolutely not the individual's responsibility to
> avoid being abusive. Heck, they sold him the alcohol.
Do the flight attendants have any liability for a passenger who's had
too much, the same as a bartender? I remember watching a bartender chase
down a person who had just left the bar, she tried to stop him from
driving. She knew that if he had a alcohol-related wreck, she would be
in trouble because she did not cut him off soon enough.
stuart
> cousin let the job get to her and now she's a bitter, angry, sarcastic
> person--quite sad really. She has a couple of years to go for her
> retirement, she hasn't said as much but I suspect the airline has
> received many complaints of her rude behavior toward crew and passengers
> and they've put her on paid leave. Some of the stories she has told me
> of what she has done to get even with rude passengers has shocked me.
> I'm the most polite passenger in the whole plane when I fly as I do not
> want to receive the same treatment. One of her favorite things to do was
> spit in drinks. Anyone out there care to guess what her first name is?
>
> Terry
and get over it. Life has to go on.
"terry" <te...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3A4615E0...@nospam.com...
RO...@webtv.net
Concerning Mark's post, I really think he has missed the point I was
trying to make in mine. Since the airlines are the ones so concerned
for their FA's and passengers that they are "arresting" passengers for
air rage (which "they" claim is mainly due to being drunk) then it
makes no sense to me that they continue to encourage people to get drunk
by serving the alcohol.
If everyone were mature enough to behave in a responsible and safe
manner, we would not have air rage or need jails. Until that day
occurs, I think the airlines should not play bartender in the skies and
these immature, irresponsible adults should have signs posted to remind
them, "before" they order more drinks, that they will be prosecuted for
certain behavior.
Mary
Lou Minatti™
>
> "Lou Minatti™" wrote:
> >
> > terry wrote:
> >
> > > My cousin works for a major US carrier. She was the first flight
> > > attendant in the US to have had an attempted sexual assault on her by a
> > > passenger.
> >
> > I am skeptical of this. Did you leave something out?
>
> the passenger.
So in the 50+ years of modern commercial air travel, your cousin was the
very first FA to have been the victim of an attempted sexual assault?
Bull.
Justin Thyme
Lou Minatti™ wrote in message <3A4666...@yahoo.com>...
Deborah Stevenson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 RO...@webtv.net wrote:
> Concerning Mark's post, I really think he has missed the point I was
> trying to make in mine.
I don't think he missed your point, Mary, I think he doesn't agree with
it--not the same thing :-).
Since the airlines are the ones so concerned
> for their FA's and passengers that they are "arresting" passengers for
> air rage (which "they" claim is mainly due to being drunk) then it
> makes no sense to me that they continue to encourage people to get drunk
> by serving the alcohol.
Clearly "they" don't unanimously claim it's mainly due to being drunk,
because Mark didn't, and Mark's part of "they."
> If everyone were mature enough to behave in a responsible and safe
> manner, we would not have air rage or need jails. Until that day
> occurs, I think the airlines should not play bartender in the skies and
> these immature, irresponsible adults should have signs posted to remind
> them, "before" they order more drinks, that they will be prosecuted for
> certain behavior.
I don't think there's any evidence that unawareness of the possibility of
prosecution is encouraging people to engage in air rage; it's also clear
that eliminating alcohol service would not be sufficient to eliminate air
rage. It's therefore not a simple or obviously worthwhile approach to
eliminate a service that millions of people enjoy in order to lessen the
possibility that someone will become loud and abusive. That doesn't mean
it's *impossible* that it would be worthwhile, but it's not automatic that
it would, either.
As I've said before, I don't have a whole lot of use for the phrase "air
rage"--I don't think there's anything particularly special about people
behaving offensively or committing crimes just because they're on an
airplane, and I also think that the term, by giving the media something to
hang stories on, encourages an isolated and disproportionate view of
behavior that's not an isolated phenomenon. There are special
requirements for *dealing* with the behavior because of the location, but
I don't think it's the same thing.
From what cabin crew have said here, they don't always receive the support
they ought to on kicking off and refusing to board drunk passengers, and
I'd certainly like to see that change. But I think there would need to be
some clearer indication of the gain/loss ratio before such a ban was put
in place, as right now I think it would be more a response to unease than
a carefully considered solution.
FWIW, I don't drink, so it's no skin off my nose :-).
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Charlotte
intensify a problem that already exists. I will agree to that. I just
want to say that I work in a retail store and you cannot believe how
many times I have had to call security due to a ranting, raving lunatic.
And none of the offenders was drunk. Believe me, most people who are
capable of air rage do not need alcohol to cause a problem. Perhaps
there is, or should be, a database of problem passengers. If a person
can't behave on a plane, he/she shouldn't be allowed to fly.
Lou Minatti™
>
> maybe she's an old-timer. how do you know?
Terry's cousin is still a FA. How long do FA's work? 20, 30 years, tops?
In all the decades before Terry's cousin worked, are we expected to
believe that there were no passenger shenanigans? No drunken, abusive
businessmen flew on the old Connies or 707's? If Terry claimed that his
cousin was the first victim to press charges, that would be reasonable.
But that's not what Terry is claiming.
Elmo
news:28780-3A...@storefull-214.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Alcoholic beverages are not the problem, in my opinion. Yes, they may
> intensify a problem that already exists. I will agree to that. I just
> want to say that I work in a retail store and you cannot believe how
> many times I have had to call security due to a ranting, raving lunatic.
> And none of the offenders was drunk. Believe me, most people who are
> capable of air rage do not need alcohol to cause a problem.
We've developed a culture of people who don't know how to pick their
fights. It is a good thing to fight to save the life of a loved one, but
now we have misguided citizens who fight with that same level of intensity
when somebody beats them to a close-in parking space. We've lost our
perspective.
When you take the considerable and justifiable anger generated by our
quite insane air travel system, and mix it with simpletons who think that
flight attendants are responsible for them getting bumped from their last
two flights, you've got a mess on your hands.
me
ejroyc...@mindspring.com
is), but "an angry flight attendant from hell". ;-)
Erik R.
On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:41:32 -0800, ejroyc...@mindspring.com
wrote:
terry
Terry
terry
and, at first, thought the author was writing of my cousin. She lives in
California though, is blonde, and not overweight. The description of Big
Bertha's temperament is quite similar to that of my cousin. One story my
cousin loves to tell is how she got even with rude, demanding first
class passengers by kicking one of their shoes up a few rows or throwing
the shoe in the garbage. She roared with laughter when telling of
passengers walking off the plane wearing one shoe as they could not find
the other. I, personally, do not find that funny.
Terry
terry
I've been very fortunate and have never met a rude flight attendant.
Well except for my cousin...that angry flight attendant from hell.
Terry
QUASI
>Perhaps
there is, or should be, a database of problem passengers.<
There IS. It's called an arrest record. But if you want to give an
airline the permission to delve into someone's life to see if they
would make a "good" passenger, I would say you have a long wait ahead
of you.
Q
--
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is
when you fall down an open sewer and die."
Mel Brooks
Sent via Deja.com
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Dan Larsen
> Seriously though, I do believe serving people a few less drinks might
> help control the problem. Isn't it that one drink in the air is the
> equivalent of three on the ground?
If it's true, something's up. I had a "few" drinks in F class the other
days, barely felt it in the air. On the ground, I'd feel it a little bit,
and in the air I shoulda been totally plastered given that guideline.
Commercial airliners are routinely pressurised to high enough altitudes --
sometime close to 10,000' depending on the operation -- but passengers
aren't usually taught about the physiological affects of high altitudes.
General Aviation aircraft routinely fly between 6000' - 8000' (and even
higher for better aircraft). The pilots are taught from day one the
dangers of hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and what not. They're taught that at
night, they really should use supplemental oxygen above something like
5000' and during the day at 10000'. The regs (for GA flight) require
oxygen above 12,500'.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible for hypoxia to hit at
altitudes at which commercial aircraft are pressurized. Drinking alcohol
can compound those effects -- but it will do different things to different
people.
--Dan
Charlotte
>there is, or should be, a database of
> problem passengers.<
>There IS. It's called an arrest record. But
> if you want to give an airline the
> permission to delve into someone's life
> to see if they would make a "good"
> passenger, I would say you have a long
> wait ahead of you.
Q
I am not saying look into someone's life. I am saying if you can't
handle yourself on a plane, then you shouldn't be accomodated. Just like
places I have worked where if a person is abusive, we write "Do Not
Service" on their file. I actually heard on CNN the other day that at
the San Francisco airport problem passengers are now being taken note of
and put on a list.
Jo Jo
Re: Air Rage?
Group: rec.travel.air Date: Sun, Dec 24, 2000, 4:57am (CST+1) From:
jfmezei...@videotron.ca (JF Mezei)
Airlines don't care so much about our health. They care about fire
hazards in planes as well as the fact that one smoker can inconvenience
a whole lot of people in a plane which means you have a whole lot of
people who are likely to switch airlines.
If one smoker can inconvenience a whole lot of people in a plane, can it
not be said that one drunk can inconvenience a whole lot of people in a
plane, by getting out of control?
Lenora Kelly
QUASI
>I actually heard on CNN the other day that at
> the San Francisco airport problem passengers are now being taken note
of
> and put on a list.
Interesting. I didn't mean to be critical of your suggestion,
Charlotte. I was just thinking that it would be difficult to legislate
or adjudicate. Agree/disagree?
Q
Miguel Cruz
> My cousin works for a major US carrier. She was the first flight
> attendant in the US to have had an attempted sexual assault on her by a
> passenger. This happened a few years ago.
I find this hard to believe - in fact, I find it hard to believe that the
first flight attendant to be sexually assaulted hasn't died of old age a
long time ago.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Charlotte
> that at the San Francisco airport
> problem passengers are now being
> taken note of and put on a list.
>Interesting. I didn't mean to be critical of
> your suggestion, Charlotte. I was just
> thinking that it would be difficult to
> legislate or adjudicate. Agree/disagree?
Q
Yes, I agree that there would be difficulties in administering such a
policy. There would probably be legal challenges but I think there is
probably a basis for such a policy. For instance, in most cruise line
contracts there is a statement saying that passage may be refused at any
time if a person's mental unfitness is deemed severe enough that he/she
is likely to cause a disturbance. I think airlines could draw up a
similar contract, warning passengers that out of control behavior will
result in being denied passage in the future. Also, I realize that
evaluation of such behavior is somewhat subjective. If there are any
lawyers out there, I would be interested in their viewpoint.
Alan Street
Airlines don't "encourage" people to get drunk any more than they
"encourage" people to overeat by serving food. As Mark said, his
personal experiences with air rage have had nothing to do with alcohol.
Depriving the vast majority of passengers a simple pleasure just because
some people get stupid isn't right. There are laws in place to deal with
out of control pax, and those laws are being enforced more and more.
Better to let people take responsibility for their own actions, then
changing the entire system to deal with the extreme cases.
Alan
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JF Mezei
> Airlines don't "encourage" people to get drunk any more than they
> "encourage" people to overeat by serving food.
How should the crew react to the following:
While flight is delayed, pax John Doe goes to airport bar and gets a few stiff drinks.
Then John Doe boards aircraft. Still acts rationally. But on aircraft, gets a
couple of drinks and starts to get "happy". At that point in time, he wants
another drink, but the FA, realising that the pax is getting close to drunk,
refuses. John Doe gets very mad and air rages.
Should the FAs continue to pour drinks for fear that the refusal of a drink
will trigger air rage incident, hoping the pax will pass out before doing any
harm, or should the FAs take pro-active steps to stop the flow of alchool
before the pax gets out of hand, but knowing that doing so would cause an
incident ?
Remember that the alchool portion may not be the fault of the airline. If the
alchool has been consumed at the airport, but the pax misbehaves in the plane,
what can be done about it ?
What happens if you have a bunch of teenagers who are not drunk, but start a
food fight that is just fun ? Is that an air rage incident ? What about that
event where they had a wet t-shirt contest on board a flight full of students
going on that winter break ?
I think that airlines, instead of setting up "economy plus", should be setting
up the white padded sections where students and air ragers could go and have
all the fun they want without disturbing anyone else. Between flights, they
could just hose the room down to clean it. Sir Richard, are you reading this ?
Lou Minatti™
>
> >Perhaps
>
> >there is, or should be, a database of
> > problem passengers.<
>
> >There IS. It's called an arrest record. But
> > if you want to give an airline the
> > permission to delve into someone's life
> > to see if they would make a "good"
> > passenger, I would say you have a long
> > wait ahead of you.
>
> Q
> I am not saying look into someone's life. I am saying if you can't
> handle yourself on a plane, then you shouldn't be accomodated.
Yup.
You know what I find amusing? Travelers who talk out their asses due to
their frustrations with flight delays. I was stuck in LGA for hours last
June, and three or four businessmen in their mid to late 40's moaned and
hollered to the harried Continental people working at the gate that
weather and traffic couldn't possibly be a valid excuse for their delay.
They were inconvenienced, and by God they were going to get to their
destination, safety be damned!
Airlines should teach their front-line employees the fine art of subtle
sarcasm. I'd like to see these asshole's egos deflated.
Lou Minatti™
>
> Alan Street wrote:
> > Airlines don't "encourage" people to get drunk any more than they
> > "encourage" people to overeat by serving food.
>
> How should the crew react to the following:
>
> While flight is delayed, pax John Doe goes to airport bar and gets a few stiff drinks.
> Then John Doe boards aircraft. Still acts rationally. But on aircraft, gets a
> couple of drinks and starts to get "happy". At that point in time, he wants
> another drink, but the FA, realising that the pax is getting close to drunk,
> refuses. John Doe gets very mad and air rages.
Get out the plastic handcuffs and arrest the bastard on arrival.
QUASI
think that necessity being the mother of invention ( Frank Zappa quote,
I believe ;') )it will have to be intiated, but it had better be
carefully policed and administered. I especially like your idea of
a "contract". This would provide at least a measure of protection for
the airlines involved, and would be legally binding in court.
Q
amp_sp...@my-deja.com
What about the scenario:
....the FA, realising that the pax is getting close to drunk,
gives him one more and after which John falls fast asleep....
Elmo
news:92a4ar$942$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> ....the FA, realising that the pax is getting close to drunk,
> gives him one more and after which John falls fast asleep....
Yeah... that ought to happen about... what... one out of every 79
thousand times?
Watch the boozers around you. You'll quickly determine that the ones
who DO fall asleep are the ones who only had one drink to relax themselves.
Drunks don't tend to fall asleep as soon as they get drunk. It's
inefficient.
TME
amp_sp...@my-deja.com
Thank you for the leason in human physiology and social behavior. Is
this based on theoretical textbook learning, or a lot of personal
experience?
Drunks shouldn't drink at all - but that's not the point. The point
is, individuals who are "getting close to drunk" as judged by a flight
attendant who then "cuts them off" (read - power trip) may create
volatility where there may not have been any.
amp
If someone wants to quitely get snokered and fall asleep in the seat
next to me, fine. I've seen it done a dozens of times. If the
behaviour is headed into the loud and boisterous range, then perhaps
the Captain ought to make the call. I'm not sure I'm ready to let a
flight attendant be my mother or my conscience.
Mathias Körber
<firs...@lastname.com> wrote:
>Not to question your views, but I'm curious as to your unconventional
>punctuation and questionable sentence structure. Far be it from me to
>say you may have been drinking... so what's the deal?
Non-native speaker perhaps?
>
>>Kristofer Jernberg
>>krist...@webtv.net
stuart
> next to me, fine. I've seen it done a dozens of times. If the
> behaviour is headed into the loud and boisterous range, then perhaps
> the Captain ought to make the call. I'm not sure I'm ready to let a
> flight attendant be my mother or my conscience.
or your conscience?
<amp_sp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92ado5$feg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <%s126.6092$zA3.2...@news-east.usenetserver.com>,
> "Elmo" <tick...@noon.org> wrote:
> > <amp_sp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:92a4ar$942$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > ....the FA, realising that the pax is getting close to drunk,
> > > gives him one more and after which John falls fast asleep....
> >
> > Yeah... that ought to happen about... what... one out of every
> 79
> > thousand times?
> >
> > Watch the boozers around you. You'll quickly determine that the
> ones
> > who DO fall asleep are the ones who only had one drink to relax
> themselves.
> > Drunks don't tend to fall asleep as soon as they get drunk. It's
> > inefficient.
> >
> > TME
>
> Thank you for the leason in human physiology and social behavior. Is
> this based on theoretical textbook learning, or a lot of personal
> experience?
>
> Drunks shouldn't drink at all - but that's not the point. The point
> is, individuals who are "getting close to drunk" as judged by a flight
> attendant who then "cuts them off" (read - power trip) may create
> volatility where there may not have been any.
>
> amp
>
>
>
amp_sp...@my-deja.com
"stuart" <hyde...@home.com> wrote:
amp wrote:
> > If someone wants to quitely get snokered and fall asleep in the seat
> > next to me, fine. I've seen it done a dozens of times. If the
> > behaviour is headed into the loud and boisterous range, then perhaps
> > the Captain ought to make the call. I'm not sure I'm ready to let a
> > flight attendant be my mother or my conscience.
Stuart replies
> What makes an airline pilot any more emminently qualified to be your
mother
> or your conscience?
Never said he (she) was my mother or my conscience - then again, I
don't do the loud and boisterous drunk - I'm the fall asleep kind.
Since at 30 thousand feet the captain is the ultimate authority, and
not the FA, if any decision is going to be made affecting passenger
safety, I'd like the boss to be aware of it and support it - wouldn't
you?
JF Mezei
> Since at 30 thousand feet the captain is the ultimate authority, and
> not the FA, if any decision is going to be made affecting passenger
> safety, I'd like the boss to be aware of it and support it - wouldn't
> you?
I would prefer if the FAs handled the cattle themselves and leave the pilots
in the cockpit to do what they are paid for: fly the plane. Obviously, they
need to be told that something has happened so that they can call ahead to
ensure that the police is there to meet the trouble maker when the plane lands
but other than that, I would expect/prefer the crew to be able to deal with
the passenger(s).
stuart
for the aircraft's safe operation, but he or she relies heavily on others in
many phases of operations. Why not let the pilot fly the aircraft and
train/delegate crisis management of passengers primarily to other staff
also. I think your attitude expresses, in part, the cause of expanded air
rage. Why listen to a lowly FA and only the "big shot boss" when trouble
erupts. If some of these passengers had some respect for the FA's there
might be more containment of problems.
Sometimes an aggressive drunk understands only very primitive forms of
communication. FA's seem to be usually a very pleasant group of people, and
not at all like bouncers at a night club. Maybe some sort of "assertiveness"
training is now being included as part of their school curriculum, I don't
know.
<amp_sp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92c81v$qgt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Mark Rogers
RO...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Concerning Mark's post, I really think he has missed the point I was
> trying to make in mine. Since the airlines are the ones so concerned
> for their FA's and passengers that they are "arresting" passengers for
> air rage (which "they" claim is mainly due to being drunk) then it
> makes no sense to me that they continue to encourage people to get drunk
> by serving the alcohol.
I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree. I will agree that alcohol
contributes to some air rage problems, but I am not in favor of banning
alcohol on flights. I still believe that people are responsible for
their actions, whether they're drunk or not. Even when I'm drunk I
don't go around punching people. Why does a little alcohol suddenly
make it not my fault? If you really have that much of a problem with
alcohol, it's not going to suddenly come as a surprise to you when
you're 45 and traveling for business. If a person chooses to act in an
inappropriate manner, then they should be prepared to accept the
consequences.
It's a balance between the safety of society as a whole, and individual
freedoms. In this case, I don't favor banning alcohol for the 99.5% of
airline passengers who cause no problem when they drink in order to
protect the 0.05% from going to jail when they act stupidly.
--Mark Rogers
RO...@webtv.net
Okay, Mark. Basically I agree with you. However, this is not just
about the drunk bearing the consequences of their actions. If they
really get out of hand and cause a serious problem on that plane, many
innocent passengers may have to bear the consequences too. So serve
all the alcohol you want and just hope it doesn't happen on the plane
"you" are flying.
Mary