Best Parallel Univere stories?
patrick lawrence spence
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, tim martin wrote:
> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>
> Tim
>
There's a great trilogy by Richard C. Meredith on this subject. I
haven't read them in years (but I do remember they were great!). The second
book is titled "No Brother, No Friend". The names of the other two
escape me at the moment.
Another decent series (written by Jack Chalker) is called "God, Inc."
I've only read the first three (not even sure that there are more), but I
liked them.
Pat
tim martin
Bruce Baugh
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there?
I'd put H. Beam Piper's Paratime stories right up from for sheer
entertainment value. I love 'em.
Robert Reed's DOWN THE BRIGHT WAY is one of the most elegant and
satisfying parallel-universe stories I've read.
Michael Kube-McDowell's ALTERNITIES has great concept, neat details, and
as an extra bonsus some of the most effective sex scenes I've read in
sf.
--
Bruce Baugh <*> http://www.kenosis.com
Moderator, comp.os.ms-windows.win95.moderated
List manager, Christlib, Christian/libertarian mailing list
Host, new sf by S.M. Stirling and George Alec Effing er
Crawford Kilian
CK:
Never having seen Sliders (or the movies you mention), I can't say...but
that's like saying bad Japanese movies would give a bad name to Japanese
fiction. Different genres, different standards.
As for "best"--I don't know. Some really fine ones:
Bring the Jubilee by Ward Moore (Lee wins at Gettysburg, 20th century is
considerably different)
Fire on the Mountain by Terry Bisson (another Civil War twist, interesting
left-wing take on the subject)
Alternities by Michael Kube-McDowell
The Wild Blue and the Gray, and Journey to Fusang, by William Sanders. #1 has
the Confederate Air Force fighting in WW I; #2 is a Chinese-colonized North
America. Sanders is a sadly unrecognized writer.
Men Like Gods, by H.G. Wells. A collection of 1920s Brits (including a
recognizable Winston Churchill) are sucked into a utopian parallel world.
Churchill does not behave well.
...and I suppose I can mention my own chronoplane novels: The Fall of the
Republic, Rogue Emperor, and The Empire of Time, in which the parallel worlds
are at different points in the timeline. My fantasy novels Greenmagic and
Redmagic are also parallel-world stories, set in worlds which are
geographically identical to ours but in which magic works.
Crawford Kilian
cki...@hubcap.mlnet.com
http://www.capcollege.bc.ca/magic/cmns/crofpers.html
barbara haddad
tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu (tim martin) writes:
> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
My own favorite is A.E.Nourse's 'The Universe Between' -- although I
also think that Andre Norton did a few good variants, as well
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a thought from barbara haddad -> (bha...@LunaCity.com)
LunaCity BBS - Mountain View, CA - 415 968 8140
Bettycoopr
L. Neil Smith's Confederation series. It starts with the Probility Broach.
BTW it's the only story that has a world I'd actually like to live in.
freedom 4 all!
dps
tim martin <tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu> wrote in article
<33651...@130.160.4.249>...
> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
Just a few off the top of my head:
"All The Myriad Ways", Larry Niven
"The Man Who Folded Himself" (by somebody Gerrold?)
_The End of Eternity_, by Isaac Asimov
If you're willing to allow non-written form, the original Star Trek series
episode "Mirror, Mirror".
And, depending on how liberal you are willing to be with your definition,
the description of Paul's prescient ability in _Dune_ (and following books)
has a very "parallel universe" feel to it (though not presented as such,
IIRC).
Greg Egan's _Quarantene_ can be regarded as a parallel universes story,
though in an entirely different way than most other such stories.
-d
Steve Charlton
In article <01bc576a$32ad4f60$204ce8cd@default>, dps <d...@rpa.net>
writes
>tim martin <tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu> wrote in article
><33651...@130.160.4.249>...
>> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>
>Just a few off the top of my head:
>
>"All The Myriad Ways", Larry Niven
>"The Man Who Folded Himself" (by somebody Gerrold?)
>_The End of Eternity_, by Isaac Asimov
"Jack of Eagles" - James Blish.
--
Steve Charlton |There may be intelligent life on other planets in the
st...@aces.demon.co.uk |galaxy, but somebody, somewhere, had to be first.
Carl Sagan (sadly missed)
Mendel Leo Cooper
In article <5k3g0u$1c4...@tpc.kenosis.com>, Bruce Baugh wrote:
>
>I'd put H. Beam Piper's Paratime stories right up from for sheer
>entertainment value. I love 'em.
"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" is the best of these, a set of 3
novelettes set in a wondrously well developed parallel universe.
Great military SF.
--
"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity
and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity
will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy ... neither its
pipes nor its theories will hold water."
===============================================
+ http://personal.riverusers.com/~thegrendel/ +
===============================================
Nancy Lebovitz
I've been enjoying John Barnes' _Patton's Spaceship_ and _Washington's
Dirigible_ and I'm looking forward to _Caesar's Bicycle_. You might as
well be warned that most of the people who I saw discussing them
in this group didn't seem to like them.
--
Nancy Lebovitz (nan...@universe.digex.net)
October '96 calligraphic button catalogue available by email!
Ben Kaufman
tim martin wrote:
>
> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>
U.K. LeGuin, _The Lathe of Heaven_
P.K. Dick, _Man in the High Castle_
BTW, LeGuin has publicly stated that _The Lathe of Heaven_ is a homage
to PKD.
Bbben (who enjoyed the TV movie _The Lathe of Heaven_, and wishes it
would be shown again)
Erich Schneider
nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
> I've been enjoying John Barnes' _Patton's Spaceship_ and _Washington's
> Dirigible_ and I'm looking forward to _Caesar's Bicycle_. You might as
> well be warned that most of the people who I saw discussing them
> in this group didn't seem to like them.
I'll have to check those out after I finish the third volume of
Tolkien's Ring trilogy, _War of the Ring_.
--
Erich Schneider er...@bush.cs.tamu.edu http://bush.cs.tamu.edu/~erich
Russell Martin
Steve Charlton <st...@aces.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <01bc576a$32ad4f60$204ce8cd@default>, dps <d...@rpa.net>
>writes
>>Just a few off the top of my head:
>>
>>"All The Myriad Ways", Larry Niven
>>"The Man Who Folded Himself" (by somebody Gerrold?)
>>_The End of Eternity_, by Isaac Asimov
>"Jack of Eagles" - James Blish.
One particular favorite of mine from the early '70s: _For Want of a
Nail_, by Robert Sobel. Not a novel, but a pseudo-history of North
America from 1776 to 1970 or so, as it happened in a timeline where
the Americans lost the War of Independence. Well worth prowling the
second-hand bookstores for. It has exactly the kind of intricate and
detailed speculation, with consequences piling on consequences until
the "present" is virtually unrecognizable, that you simply couldn't
get on a one-hour TV show like "Sliders."
--
Russell Martin
rma...@interlog.com
(To reply via email, remove "nospam" from the Reply To: line)
David Hines
H. Beam Piper definitely seconded; he's just terrific.
"If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg," by Winston Churchill.
Churchill, IIRC, also wrote a *novel-length* exploration of the idea,
which I don't think has been reprinted and is rare as all hell. (I'd
*love* to see one of the SF publishers to pick up the reprint rights.
Pushed well, it could have considerable crossover appeal to the
mainstream.)
I've enjoyed Turtledove's _The Guns of the South_ and _A World of
Difference_, but his WorldWar series (a SERIES?! *WHY?!*) stunk
like a sunbathing fish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| David Hines d-h...@uchicago.edu |
| http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/dzhines |
====================================================================
Cronan Thompson
> I've enjoyed Turtledove's _The Guns of the South_ and _A World of
> Difference_, but his WorldWar series (a SERIES?! *WHY?!*) stunk
> like a sunbathing fish.
Hold on for just a gosh dern minute. The first one was actually pretty not
bad.
Colin Campbell
I always liked Keith Laumer's WORLDS OF THE IMPERIUM. He sure wrote
some good stories before he gave up and became a hack.
Neelakantan Krishnaswami
In article <vyohaqh...@csdl.tamu.edu>, Erich Schneider <er...@bush.cs.tamu.edu> writes:
|> nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
|>
|> > I've been enjoying John Barnes' _Patton's Spaceship_ and _Washington's
|> > Dirigible_ and I'm looking forward to _Caesar's Bicycle_. You might as
|> > well be warned that most of the people who I saw discussing them
|> > in this group didn't seem to like them.
|>
|> I'll have to check those out after I finish the third volume of
|> Tolkien's Ring trilogy, _War of the Ring_.
The <famous guy's transport-mode> series is the first thing by John
Barnes that I've read, except for _One for the Morning Glory_.
I've enjoyed them quite a bit. It's crunchy mind-candy; I enjoyed them
in the same way I enjoyed Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series.
I don't really understand the hostility towards these novels on this
newsgroup. Sure, it isn't brilliant, but there's solid craftsmanship
in these books.
Neel
Brandon Ray
One of the classics in this area is "All the Myriad Ways" by Larry Niven.
Another is "Sideways in Time" by Murray Leinster.
In the novel length, I am very fond of "The Proteus Operation" by James P.
Hogan.
---
******************************************************************************
"The message is clear: on THE X-FILES, a woman who is co-opted by the
patriarchal order gets turned into a puddle of goo."
--Rhonda Wilcox & J.P. Williams
"'What Do You Think?': The X-Files,
Liminality, and Gender Pleasure"
******************************************************************************
Randall Pursley
I really liked Pohl's 'The Coming of the Quantum Cats'. It was about
the effects of parallel world travel and not just an alternate history
type of book.
>> What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
> My own favorite is A.E.Nourse's 'The Universe Between' -- although I
Mendel Leo Cooper
In article <33651...@130.160.4.249>, tim martin wrote:
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of Tom Disch'es early
novels, ECHO ROUND HIS BONES. This one deals with the
consequences of using a "matter transporter" for human travel. It
seems that each use of this gadget creates a carbon copy
"doppelganger" in a ghost universe... Vintage Disch and makes
interesting points with good characterization. Published in about
1968, I think...
Jimi Freidenker
> tim martin wrote:
> >
> > What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
> > given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> > there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
My fave would have to be Keith Laumer's Lafeyette O'Leary series (Time
Bender, Shape Changer, World Shuffler, Galaxy Builder) because they're
good yarns and I think it's appropriate not to take such things too
seriuosly.
Sliders...I quit watching it after the first season because I thought
the writing was consistently uninspired and often downright dumb. I
can't comment on its current status, but I admit I was excited by the
concept when I first heard of it. (Excited enough to get my TV out of
the closet, but no more, alas)
Jimi Freidenker http://www.neosoft.com/~animalfm
Communications Director anim...@neosoft.com
Animal Farm Permaculture Center P.O. Box 271365, Houston, TX 77277
Steve Sloan
Jimi Freidenker wrote:
> Sliders...I quit watching it after the first season
> because I thought the writing was consistently uninspired and
> often downright dumb. I can't comment on its current status, but
> I admit I was excited by the concept when I first heard of it.
> (Excited enough to get my TV out of the closet, but no more, alas)
It's kept right on sliding downhill. At the beginning of this season,
they killed of John-Rys Davies, and added a new girl who is obviously
just there for T&A value. It's pretty blatant, too. One episode, they
ran into another Quinn, who was crazy, and obviously patterned on
Kurtz from HEART OF DARKNESS/"Apocalypse Now." He had the new girl
tied to a stake in a fur bikini, of all things! In another episode,
they used her to make a kind of "Species" rip-off, complete with a
scene where she mates with/kills a guy in a jucuzzi (sp?).
The science on the show keeps getting worse, too. One recent episode
involved Earth passing through a swarm of pulsars. That's unlikely
enough, but when they showed the pulsars travelling through space,
they were lumpy, just like asteroids! Apparently, they wanted to
copy that other piece of TV crap, the "Asteroid" miniseries, which
was shown weeks before the episode aired.
Next week, they're going to meet vampires.
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Sloan E-mail: sl...@geosim.msfc.nasa.gov
Senior in Computer Science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville
Check out Kithrup.JPG on MY NEW WEB SITE (I'm so excited):
http://www.cs.uah.edu/cs/students/ssloan/
RebelRon
I have also enjoyed the current Barnes series. Not serious stuff, but fun
escapism. I picked up Barnes's Patton's Spaceship because the cover blurb
indicated the main character was a Pittsburgh PI. As a Pittsburgh area
native I was fascinated by his detailed knowledge of the Pittsburgh area.
Does anybody know if Barnes has some connection with Pittsbugh? Maybe
college here - Carnegie-Mellon, Duquesne, Pitt - or something else?
Many thanks,
Ron Charlton
Leo G. Simonetta
David Hines wrote:
>
> H. Beam Piper definitely seconded; he's just terrific.
>
> "If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg," by Winston Churchill.
> Churchill, IIRC, also wrote a *novel-length* exploration of the idea,
> which I don't think has been reprinted and is rare as all hell. (I'd
> *love* to see one of the SF publishers to pick up the reprint rights.
> Pushed well, it could have considerable crossover appeal to the
> mainstream.)
That would be something to read!
> I've enjoyed Turtledove's _The Guns of the South_ and _A World of
> Difference_, but his WorldWar series (a SERIES?! *WHY?!*) stunk
> like a sunbathing fish.
I also liked his book "The Toxic SpellDump" in a parallel
world where the EPA handles the unitended consequences of
a variety of different magical systems. I believe that I
heard that he was writing a sequel to this book which I
would prefer over another World War book.
It is fluff but enjoyable fluff.
--
Leo G. Simonetta
ARC...@LANGATE.GSU.EDU My opinions. Mine! All mine!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On 5 May 1997 03:51:44 GMT, Colin Campbell <col...@crl10.crl.com>
wrote:
> I always liked Keith Laumer's WORLDS OF THE IMPERIUM. He sure wrote
>some good stories before he gave up and became a hack.
He didn't give up, for heaven's sake -- he had a STROKE. Jeez.
Of all the stupid, unfair, uninformed criticisms...
Keith Laumer was crippled for life by a massive stroke. That he could
write anything coherent at all after that is amazing. Yeah, it was
junk compared to what he'd done before, and was published by Baen as
much out of pity as anything else, but he didn't "give up and become a
hack."
He's dead now, so your callous ignorance can't hurt him, but Jesus
bloody hell...
TOUCHED BY THE GODS: Hardcover, Tor Books, November 1997
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Updated 4/16/97
Beyond Comics at Lakeforest Mall, Gaithersburg MD is now open!
Colin Campbell
lawr...@clark.net (Lawrence Watt-Evans) writes:
> On 5 May 1997 03:51:44 GMT, Colin Campbell <col...@crl10.crl.com>
> wrote:
>> I always liked Keith Laumer's WORLDS OF THE IMPERIUM. He sure wrote
>> some good stories before he gave up and became a hack.
> He didn't give up, for heaven's sake -- he had a STROKE. Jeez.
> Of all the stupid, unfair, uninformed criticisms...
I plead guilty to being uninformed. What year did Laumer suffer a
stroke? It sure explains a lot. I had simply assumed that after years of
selling his finely crafted novels to AMAZING (when they were obviously
aimed at ANALOG) he shrugged and started typing for groceries.
The first Laumer book I read was his text on making model airplanes. I
didn't realize it was the same Laumer until the scene in THE GREAT TIME
MACHINE HOAX where the guy is trapped on a mesa and builds a glider out
of materials on hand, including rabbit glue.
John Boston
In article <336e850d...@news.clark.net>, lawr...@clark.net says...
>
>On 5 May 1997 03:51:44 GMT, Colin Campbell <col...@crl10.crl.com>
>wrote:
>
>> I always liked Keith Laumer's WORLDS OF THE IMPERIUM. He sure wrote
>>some good stories before he gave up and became a hack.
>
>He didn't give up, for heaven's sake -- he had a STROKE. Jeez.
>
>Of all the stupid, unfair, uninformed criticisms...
>
>write anything coherent at all after that is amazing. Yeah, it was
>junk compared to what he'd done before, and was published by Baen as
>much out of pity as anything else, but he didn't "give up and become a
>hack."
>
>He's dead now, so your callous ignorance can't hurt him, but Jesus
>bloody hell...
Er . . . some of us think Laumer became a hack long before his stroke.
John Boston
Eddie Barrios
tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu (tim martin) wrote:
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>Tim
A good recent one was Orson Scott Card's Pastwatch. It details the
interesting premise that Columbus saved Europe from a central american
indian invasion.
Ed
ferruccio barletta
tim martin (tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu) wrote:
: What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
: given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
: there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
: Tim
Larry Niven's "Convergent Series"
barbara haddad
I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly good
Robert J. Sawyer
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
Some personal favorites:
THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE by Philip K. Dick
A DIFFERENT FLESH by Harry Turtledove
MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA by S. M. Stirling
--------------------------------------
R O B E R T J . S A W Y E R
Author of STARPLEX (Ace, Oct. 1996)
Current Best Novel Hugo Award Finalist
--------------------------------------
Carl Dershem
Randall Pursley wrote:
>
> I really liked Pohl's 'The Coming of the Quantum Cats'. It was about
> the effects of parallel world travel and not just an alternate history
> type of book.
>
> >> given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
> >> there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
I've always kind of favored Randall Garrett's "Lord D'Arcy" stories.
Bob Lovell
tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu (tim martin) wrote:
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>Tim
What about Piers Anthony's Omnivore, Orn, and Ox series? I admit that
they are kind of ho-hum but they had some saving graces.
Bob Lovell
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On 6 May 1997 01:45:23 GMT, Colin Campbell <col...@crl10.crl.com>
wrote:
>lawr...@clark.net (Lawrence Watt-Evans) writes:
>
>> On 5 May 1997 03:51:44 GMT, Colin Campbell <col...@crl10.crl.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> I always liked Keith Laumer's WORLDS OF THE IMPERIUM. He sure wrote
>>> some good stories before he gave up and became a hack.
>
>> He didn't give up, for heaven's sake -- he had a STROKE. Jeez.
>
> I plead guilty to being uninformed. What year did Laumer suffer a
>stroke?
1972 or '73, I'm not sure.
TOUCHED BY THE GODS: Hardcover, Tor Books, November 1997
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Updated 5/5/97
Dan Goodman
Damon Knight's collection A Century of Science Fiction includes a
wonderful passage from the magazine version of Keith Laumer's Worlds of
the Imperium.
Note that I say the _magazine_ version; it was edited out of the book
version.
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
John Adcox
Has anyone mentioned "There are Doors" by Gene Wolfe?
JA
--
Visit My Web Page!
http://www.mindspring.com/~jadcox
mythology, entertainiment, books and writing,
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Bill Woods
He gets around. The bio in A MILLION OPEN DOORS (1992) said that Barnes
lived in Pittsburgh. In other books he's said to be living in Montana
and, as I recall, Colorado.
--
Bill Woods
"Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair
for the future of the human race."
--H.G.Wells
Magus
In article <19970505210...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
RebelRon <rebe...@aol.com> wrote:
>I have also enjoyed the current Barnes series. Not serious stuff, but fun
>escapism. I picked up Barnes's Patton's Spaceship because the cover blurb
>indicated the main character was a Pittsburgh PI. As a Pittsburgh area
>native I was fascinated by his detailed knowledge of the Pittsburgh area.
>Does anybody know if Barnes has some connection with Pittsbugh? Maybe
>college here - Carnegie-Mellon, Duquesne, Pitt - or something else?
John Barnes lived and worked in Pittsburgh for around two years before
he and his wife moved to Colorado around two and a half to three years
ago.
Cheers
John Schmid
--
John Schmid Internet: ma...@netcom.com Finger for PGP key
"Truth is what remains when all illusions have been stripped away."
Suenteus Po
Dan Swartzendruber
In article <E9xGu...@news.uwindsor.ca>, bea...@uwindsor.ca (Lorne
Beaton) wrote:
>In article <slrn5mq27q.3...@thegrendel.theriver.com>,
>Mendel Leo Cooper <thegr...@thegrendel.theriver.com> wrote:
>>In article <5k3g0u$1c4...@tpc.kenosis.com>, Bruce Baugh wrote:
>>>
>>>I'd put H. Beam Piper's Paratime stories right up from for sheer
>>>entertainment value. I love 'em.
>>
>>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" is the best of these, a set of 3
>>novelettes set in a wondrously well developed parallel universe.
>>Great military SF.
>
>It's funny you should mention that book, since I just read it recently and
>I thought it was a big waste of time. (I'm no fan of military SF, but a
>friend recommended the book, so...) 20th-century Massachusetts State
>Trooper gets transported to alternate timeline, teaches the natives about
>gunpowder, and becomes Emperor of Everything. Can you say "adolescent
>power fantasy"?
If you don't like military SF, small wonder it left you cold.
--
Dan Swartzendruber
Dan Goodman
In article <5kvpm5$1...@lotho.delphi.com>, Rick Cook <rc...@BIX.com> wrote:
>Bill Woods wrote:
>>He gets around. The bio in A MILLION OPEN DOORS (1992) said >that Barnes
>lived in Pittsburgh. In other books he's said to be living in >Montana
>and, as I recall, Colorado.
>>
>something to do with stagecraft (not writing or acting). I think there was
>a divorce in there as well. I haven't seen him for several years so I
>don't know where he's living now.
Now remarried, to Kara Dalkey. I think they're living in Colorado.
Rick Cook
Bill Woods wrote:
>He gets around. The bio in A MILLION OPEN DOORS (1992) said >that Barnes
lived in Pittsburgh. In other books he's said to be living in >Montana
and, as I recall, Colorado.
>
Barnes lived in Montana for a while and then went to Philadelphia to study
something to do with stagecraft (not writing or acting). I think there was
a divorce in there as well. I haven't seen him for several years so I
don't know where he's living now.
A brilliant man and an excellent, thought-provoking, writer.
--RC
Agrayson1
>> Does anybody know if Barnes has some connection with Pittsbugh? Maybe
college here - Carnegie-Mellon, Duquesne, Pitt - or something else?<<
John Barnes got his PhD. in Theather from the University of Pittsburgh.
He got a "pass with high honors," the first ever given in the theater
department.
For those interested, the books following _Patton's Spaceship_, are
_Washington's Dirigible_ (just out) and _Caesar's Bicycle_ due out in
October (Harper Prism).
There's a lot more theater references in his fantasy novel, _One for the
Morning Glory_, now a TOR paperback.
Lorne Beaton
In article <slrn5mq27q.3...@thegrendel.theriver.com>,
Mendel Leo Cooper <thegr...@thegrendel.theriver.com> wrote:
>In article <5k3g0u$1c4...@tpc.kenosis.com>, Bruce Baugh wrote:
>>
>>I'd put H. Beam Piper's Paratime stories right up from for sheer
>>entertainment value. I love 'em.
>
>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" is the best of these, a set of 3
>novelettes set in a wondrously well developed parallel universe.
>Great military SF.
It's funny you should mention that book, since I just read it recently and
I thought it was a big waste of time. (I'm no fan of military SF, but a
friend recommended the book, so...) 20th-century Massachusetts State
Trooper gets transported to alternate timeline, teaches the natives about
gunpowder, and becomes Emperor of Everything. Can you say "adolescent
power fantasy"?
--
"Asking is just polite DEMANDING." -- Max Headroom
--
Lorne Beaton: lbe...@mnsi.net
MNSi Technical Support
RebelRon
Folks - thanks for the information about John Barnes and his Pittsburgh
connection. I was almost certain that there was some connection there
because of the specific place references in "Patton's Spaceship" that
would not be familiar enough to a casual visitor.
-- Ron Charlton
Bruce Baugh
In article <5kvpm5$1...@lotho.delphi.com>, Rick Cook <rc...@BIX.com> wrote:
>a divorce in there as well. I haven't seen him for several years so I
>don't know where he's living now.
John's in Colorado these days.
--
Bruce Baugh <*> http://www.kenosis.com
Moderator, comp.os.ms-windows.win95.moderated
List manager, Christlib, Christian/libertarian mailing list
Host, new sf by S.M. Stirling and George Alec Effing er
Jorj Strumolo
bea...@uwindsor.ca (Lorne Beaton) wrote:
LB> I thought it was a big waste of time. (I'm no fan of military SF,
> but a friend recommended the book, so...) 20th-century Massachusetts
> State Trooper gets transported to alternate timeline, teaches the
> natives about gunpowder, and becomes Emperor of Everything.
Nit: Pennsylvania State Trooper.
dsw...@druber.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
DS> If you don't like military SF, small wonder it left you cold.
_Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen_ is less military than the Carr &
Green sequel _Great Kings' War_, at least. It's possible to
skip over the boring battles and focus on the more interesting
social stuff. Strip the warfare out of the sequel and there's
not much left at all.
-=-
Jorj.S...@chowda.com * Fido 1:323/140 * jo...@wsii.com
Loose Female
Any mention of the "Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter" books yet?
Just finished _The Killing Dance_. Pretty cool.
Torfi H Tulinius
tim Martin writes:
>What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
I really liked Lawrence Watt-Evans Crosstime Traffic short story collections,
though they are more Alternate universe stories than "different history"
stories, he also wrote a trilogy about this guy who gets messed up with people
from a pulp sci-fi universe and a fantasy universe(the name escapes me). There
are also a story by Philip K. Dick called the Crack in space(I think) which I
liked. There was a story I read couple of years ago about a matter
transportation device that also shifted things beetween different universes,
and one time they got a different species when they sent a human. These are
all stories that weren't mentioned but IMHO should be.
KaTT
L. Shelton Bumgarner
ed...@datadepot.com (Eddie Barrios) wrote:
>tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu (tim martin) wrote:
>>What are the best parallel universe stories out there? And has Sliders
>>given a bad name to the genre? They seem to copy every movie out
>>there; Twister, Anaconda (why that film?), and Jurassic Park (twice!).
>>Tim
>A good recent one was Orson Scott Card's Pastwatch. It details the
>interesting premise that Columbus saved Europe from a central american
>indian invasion.
Yeah...I'm fancinated by such musings. My current favorite idea for an
AH would be a French Stalin taking over after the French lost WWI. He
would take over much of the world, more than the commies did in OTL,
and it would make the point that maybe it was a good think WWII happen
the way it did. 8-)
lee
--
L. Shelton Bumgarner -- Keeper of the Great Renaming FAQ [e-mailed
copies of responses to my postings are welcomed] "Usenet is like a
herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to
redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling
amounts of excrement when you least expect it. " --sp...@cs.purdue.edu
L. Shelton Bumgarner
bha...@LunaCity.com (barbara haddad) wrote:
> I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly good
What I've heard about it makes me wince. I HATE it when writers mangle
a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
lsb
Robert A. Woodward
In article <337A6C...@nbnet.nb.ca>, lone...@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:
> L. Shelton Bumgarner wrote:
> >
> > > I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly good
> >
> > What I've heard about it makes me wince. I HATE it when writers mangle
> > a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
> > wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
>
> Some of us in the Great White North would agree that things would have
> been much more civilized.
>
A British North America would have have a smaller population. Since it was
part of the English Empire, there would have been a lot less immigration
in the Nineteenth Century.
Peter Suciu
>What I've heard about it makes me wince. I HATE it when writers mangle
>a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
>wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
Then you've heard the wrong things about it. It is NOT saying that the world would be a better palce if the "damn
redcoats had won." Not at all. It just says things would be very different! In fact, while some parts of the world
are better, there are others that are bad.
There is a whole part of the book (minor spoilers)........where the characters visit a mining town. No one has in-door
plumbing, the cities are covered in soot! It is not a perfect world by any stretch of the imagination.
David Johnston
L. Shelton Bumgarner wrote:
>
> bha...@LunaCity.com (barbara haddad) wrote:
>
> > I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly good
>
> a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
> wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
>
Has it occured to you that it might really have been a better outcome
for the rebellion to have been defeated?
Doug Hoff
--
Robert A. Woodward <robe...@halcyon.com> wrote in article
<robertaw-140...@blv-pm104-ip22.halcyon.com>...
> In article <337A6C...@nbnet.nb.ca>, lone...@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:
>
> > L. Shelton Bumgarner wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly
good
> > >
> > > What I've heard about it makes me wince. I HATE it when writers
mangle
> > > a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
> > > wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
> >
> > Some of us in the Great White North would agree that things would have
> > been much more civilized.
> >
>
> A British North America would have have a smaller population. Since it
was
> part of the English Empire, there would have been a lot less immigration
> in the Nineteenth Century.
>
One of the (many) things that stuck in my craw about T2G was that Martin
Luther King, JFK, Nixon, et al, still exist! With 200 years of different
history, what are the odds of _any_ of the same people being born?
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/hoff5767/welcome.htm
> --
> rawoo...@aol.com
> robe...@halcyon.com
> cjp...@prodigy.com
>
Norm
Graham Head
In article <01bc619f$38b4d240$b8e1aec7@doughoff>, Doug Hoff
<hoff...@sprynet.com> writes
>
>One of the (many) things that stuck in my craw about T2G was that Martin
>Luther King, JFK, Nixon, et al, still exist! With 200 years of different
>history, what are the odds of _any_ of the same people being born?
Agreed. But I'd see it as more of a convention of the AH subgenre than
anything specific re T2G. Lots of examples from elsewhere. (eg - more
tongue in cheek - the appearance of Brian Aldiss amongst others in Harry
Harrison's _A Transatlantic Tunnel Hurrah!_).
--
Graham
David Johnston
Doug Hoff wrote:
> One of the (many) things that stuck in my craw about T2G was that Martin
> Luther King, JFK, Nixon, et al, still exist! With 200 years of different
> history, what are the odds of _any_ of the same people being born?
Yeah but it's more fun this way.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On Mon, 12 May 97 00:47:28 GMT, t...@rhi.hi.is (Torfi H Tulinius)
wrote:
>I really liked Lawrence Watt-Evans Crosstime Traffic short story collections,
>though they are more Alternate universe stories than "different history"
>stories, he also wrote a trilogy about this guy who gets messed up with people
>from a pulp sci-fi universe and a fantasy universe(the name escapes me).
The Three Worlds trilogy: OUT OF THIS WORLD, IN THE EMPIRE OF SHADOW,
and THE REIGN OF THE BROWN MAGICIAN.
Thanks for the kind words about CROSSTIME TRAFFIC.
> There
>are also a story by Philip K. Dick called the Crack in space(I think) which I
>liked.
Yup, that's the title.
Ian
David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>L. Shelton Bumgarner wrote:
>>
>> bha...@LunaCity.com (barbara haddad) wrote:
>>
>> > I'm reading 'The Two Georges' and am finding it surprisingly good
>>
>> What I've heard about it makes me wince. I HATE it when writers mangle
>> a good AH, simply so they can make a point about how great and
>> wonderful things would have been if the damn redcoats had won.
>>
>
>Has it occured to you that it might really have been a better outcome
>for the rebellion to have been defeated?
Certainly possible. Britain would've been forced to give the colonies more
independance even if the rebels lost, to prevent another occurrence. Life
wouldn't be tremendously different for the average person in, say, the early
19th from what it was like under the American government. Probably less
immigration from outside the Empire due to the fact that it's a nominally
British area (at least in the late 18th and early 19th centuries - after
that it stops mattering much). There'd have been major tensions around the
early to mid 1800s as first the slave trade, then slavery are elimenated in
the Empire. The southern colonies are not going to like that, and I really
don't know what the extent of it would be - probably a "second rebellion" I
would guess. Interesting to contemplate whether this time, with no US
federal government being there to unify the industrial north in war against
the southern states, they might not stay out. Of course, slavery wasn't the
exculsive reason for the civil war, and being a definite non-ACW-expert I
can't really say. I'd guess, though, that whether or not there is a "civil
war" or a secessionary southern federation, by the middle of the 19th
century the continent would be divided up between a few Dominions, more
functionally independant than the OTL dominions due to greater size.
Together or individually, most of North America would probably be peacefully
recognized as independant around the turn of the 20th century, or declare
themselves a republic peacefully.
I don't see how this would make life in North America generally better _or_
worse, though. I think probably a failed American revolution would have
little effect on the lifestyles and socioeconomic trends in North America
today - mostly the effects would be on international politics in the late
eighteenth century, and during the nineteenth century. The twentieth century
would politically probably turn out rather different - inevitable closer
ties between Britain and N. America, and the isolationist trends prevalent
at many times in US history would probably be much less obvious.
Steve Glover
iadm...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Ian) wrote:
>I don't see how this would make life in North America generally better _or_
>worse, though. I think probably a failed American revolution would have
>little effect on the lifestyles and socioeconomic trends in North America
>today - mostly the effects would be on international politics in the late
>eighteenth century, and during the nineteenth century.
Even if the American colonies failed to achieve independence in the
eighteenth century, the political writings and thoughts of those involved
would survive to have repercussions throughout the world -- after all,
didn't the Revolutionary French credit the Americans with having shown them
the way (cue old story about Washington or someone receiving the key to the
Bastille)?
-- steve....@ukonline.co.uk or kur...@tardis.ed.ac.uk
No longer steve_...@hicom.lut.ac.uk, cs...@cds1.dl.ac.uk,
ssbg...@bradford.ac.uk, bph...@biovax.leeds.ac.uk,
ss...@festival.ed.ac.uk, or even s...@alphadata.co.uk
Bob Goudreau
Ian (iadm...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
: >Has it occured to you that it might really have been a better outcome
: >for the rebellion to have been defeated?
: Certainly possible. Britain would've been forced to give the colonies more
: independance even if the rebels lost, to prevent another occurrence.
: ...
: by the middle of the 19th
: century the continent would be divided up between a few Dominions, more
: functionally independant than the OTL dominions due to greater size.
: Together or individually, most of North America would probably be peacefully
: recognized as independant around the turn of the 20th century, or declare
: themselves a republic peacefully.
What makes you think that the British Empire would have had free
reign on most of the North American continent in such a scenario?
It's not obvious that events analagous to the Lousisiana Purchase,
the Mexican-American War or the Alaska Purchase would have taken
place in this timeline. British North America might never have
expanded west of the Mississipi, except in the far North. The
continent might end up divided between British, French, Spanish
and Russian imperial domains, with plenty of friction between the
four players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau Data General Corporation
goud...@dg-rtp.dg.com 62 Alexander Drive
+1 919 248 6231 Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA
Maureen Goldman
I don't know whether anyone has mentioned it, but I was impressed with
a novel called MYSTERIUM by Robert Charles Wilson. The inhabitants of
a small town in Montana[?] located near a research facility awaken one
morning to find themselves in an alternative Earth, one in which a
long-ago historic event ended differently.
Hint: T'isn't nearly as nice.
Wilson does a bang-up job of fleshing out his Other World. I found
the end a big unsatisfactory, but I still highly recommend the book.
Donald Tucker
Maureen Goldman (inksl...@sunshine.net) writes:
> I don't know whether anyone has mentioned it, but I was impressed with
> a novel called MYSTERIUM by Robert Charles Wilson. The inhabitants of
> a small town in Montana[?]
Michigan
> located near a research facility awaken one
> morning to find themselves in an alternative Earth, one in which a
> long-ago historic event ended differently.
>
> Hint: T'isn't nearly as nice.
>
> Wilson does a bang-up job of fleshing out his Other World. I found
> the end a big unsatisfactory, but I still highly recommend the book.
RCW's parallel world differs from ours in the nature of the organized
religion. IIRC it has Gnostic stuff mixed with Catholicism.
Published by Bantam Spectra. PB ed in 1995.
ISBN 0-553-56953-8
soc.history.what-if cut from followup.
Cheers Global history; Alternate history; Maps; ___,__<@~__,___
Donald Civilizations Timelines at: /^/^/^[#]^\^\^\
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4123/ _/|\_
Pteranodon logo Copyright © 1996 [new: pinyin] " " ©1996
Ian
goud...@dg-rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) wrote:
>What makes you think that the British Empire would have had free
>reign on most of the North American continent in such a scenario?
>It's not obvious that events analagous to the Lousisiana Purchase,
>the Mexican-American War or the Alaska Purchase would have taken
>place in this timeline. British North America might never have
>expanded west of the Mississipi, except in the far North. The
>continent might end up divided between British, French, Spanish
>and Russian imperial domains, with plenty of friction between the
>four players.
I find Russian presence extremely improbable - they were getting little out
of Alaska and had enough problems closer to home. They might not have gotten
out as early, but they almost certainly would have. Even if they didn't,
their presence was limited to areas of Alaska. As for the French, comflict
between them and the British (mainly the Napoleonic Wars), combined with
greater British ability to project force in North America, would probably
have lead to an elimenation or great reduction of French ownings in North
America (through military campaigning or postwar settlement rather than
purchasing). Mexico, OTOH, may well have remained larger in this timeline,
especially with the colonies (well, probably at least one Dominion by that
time) being less expansionistic. However it still seems probable that
movement west would have occurred - don't know how it would've been affected
by greater British tendencies to "deal" with the natives (signing treaties
and letting them fight each other, rather than warring openly against them).
Byambaa Garid
Ian wrote:
>
> goud...@dg-rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) wrote:
>
> >What makes you think that the British Empire would have had free
> >reign on most of the North American continent in such a scenario?
> >It's not obvious that events analagous to the Lousisiana Purchase,
> >the Mexican-American War or the Alaska Purchase would have taken
> >place in this timeline. British North America might never have
> >expanded west of the Mississipi, except in the far North. The
> >continent might end up divided between British, French, Spanish
> >and Russian imperial domains, with plenty of friction between the
> >four players.
>
> I find Russian presence extremely improbable - they were getting little out
> of Alaska and had enough problems closer to home. They might not have gotten
private enterprise for the most part. Somewhat similar to Russian
colonisation of Siberia, private citizens, Cossacks and trappers
discovered and colonised for their profit and Tsarist bureacracy came
later. In Alaska's case interference from S-Petersberg was even smaller.
Certainly if not the political decision by Tsarist government Russians
in Alaska would never left it.After all, Alaska is quite sparsely
populated,a few thousand Russians and about ten thousand natives
baptised into Russian Orthodoxy could held the territory for quite a
long time. In fact invasion of Alaska by US or Britain was very
unprobable. Who would want to fight a war over "ice of box"? And after
Trans-Siberian was built in 1890s, Russian population in North America
could increase to significant levels.
Let's imagine a somewhat slower US expansion to the West for some
reason(40 years Civil War for example). In that case Russia or some
enterprising Russian citizens take entire Pacific coast of North
America, from Alaska to California. After the Transiberian is built,
millions of Russian peasants go to America,attracted by promises of
free land. In 1900, US-Russian American border is demarcated at Rocky
Mountains. After Russian Revolution, rich and prosperious Russian
America refuses to recognise Communists and declares independence.
Russian America grows in population, taking hundreds of thousands of
refugees from Soviet Russia. Millions more from Asia and Mexico and
United States come. They all learn Russian language and create a new
Russian American culture. Russian America aquires Hawaii,Philippines and
several strategic islands in the Pacific. In 1941, Japan attacks
Zhemchuzhnaya Gavan' (in English Pearl Harbour), Russian American
Pacific Fleet base in Hawaii. After four years of war, Russian America
defeats Japan in alliance with USSR, US and Britain. After watching
their cousins across the Pacific prosper, Soviet Russia ends its
experiment with communism in 1950. Russian Americans help their former
metropoly with billions of dollars in investment, give them their
superior technology, their more lovely popular culture. By 1970, Russia
is biggest economy in the world, followed by Russian America. US is only
the third. Russians and Russian Americans are ahead in fields of
computing technology,electronics, aviation,cars, space. Internet is
called Set', this newsgroup a-chto-esli.ist.obsch. :)