When is a 2N2222 transistor a cheese sandwich?
Vshah101
> Example: If everyone else calls a 2N2222 a transistor, and you insist on
> calling it a cheese sandwich, you're the one who is the cause of confusion.
Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
compared to a cheese sandwich.
There are those that believe in relative definition. Following this logic, if
everyone believed there is no gravity, then gravity would no longer exist.
Others believe in scientific proof.
Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this redefinition
is often to control others or to increase their importance. Note that it is not
just one person "redefining" words, it is a group. They new definition is often
widely accepted, but its still not correct. If everyone jumped off a bridge,
would you? Often the people that created the new definition will start to
believe their new definition
One example is calling the lowest of tasks an "Engineer". A Component
"Engineer" is someone that sorts components in a database, orders them, and (if
they are lucky) - updates them with new components. It is a lowly task. Yet,
with the word "Engineer" after it, it makes it sound important.
When politicians say that an irrelevant test, such as the MCAS, increases
"standards", they only do so to look like they stand for better education. Not
knowing what the test is, they may honestly believe the test increases
"standards". In reality, it does not increase standards because the information
tested is not relevant.
One example is linking the buying of an HF transceiver to "advancement of the
radio art", when the <real> goal is to get people to use Morse code. Soon
people will forget the original purchase and start to believe that Morse code
is "radio art".
Another <overused > example is "no code = no ham, know code = know ham". This
is redefining a Ham as someone that knows code. Amateurs that chose not to are
not Hams.
Another example is saying when something is "in use", it is useful. Contesters
occupy as many bands as possible, and claim that each band is useful. Simply
contacting someone and exchanging callsign information is not useful. Maybe
useful to that person, but not to the amateur radio hobby.
Redefinition works fine for those with an agenda. Honesty works better for the
hobby. So, one should not call cheese sandwiches 2N2222's. It may work fine for
a while. Eventually it will be bad for everyone involved. If you are told to do
so, you should politely refuse.
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>N2EY wrote:
>> Example: If everyone else calls a 2N2222 a transistor, and you insist on
>> calling it a cheese sandwich, you're the one who is the cause of confusion.
>
>Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
>compared to a cheese sandwich.
Yes, Vipul, you appear to be very confused.
>
>There are those that believe in relative definition. Following this logic, if
>everyone believed there is no gravity, then gravity would no longer exist.
Subjectivism vs. objectivism.
>Others believe in scientific proof.
You're off base again, Vipul.
The existence of things is provable given a few basic assumptions. What humans
choose to call these things is purely subjective.
Once upon a time, transistors were called "crystal triodes". Typical bipolar
transistors are just that. But that name never caught on, and "transistor" is
the term used for about the past 50+ years.
>
>Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this
>redefinition is often to control others or to increase their importance.
It's for clarity.
>Note that it is
>not
>just one person "redefining" words, it is a group. They new definition is
>often
>widely accepted, but its still not correct.
If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the definition.
Get used to it, Vipul - that's how languages work.
Would you call yourself a Professional Engineer?
>If everyone jumped off a bridge,
>would you?
Depends on how high the bridge is and how much I'm being paid.
>Often the people that created the new definition will start to
>believe their new definition
>
If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the definition.
>One example is calling the lowest of tasks an "Engineer". A Component
>"Engineer" is someone that sorts components in a database, orders them, and
>(if
>they are lucky) - updates them with new components. It is a lowly task. Yet,
>with the word "Engineer" after it, it makes it sound important.
Maybe where you work. I'm not a components engineer.
>
>When politicians say that an irrelevant test, such as the MCAS, increases
>"standards", they only do so to look like they stand for better education.
>Not
>knowing what the test is, they may honestly believe the test increases
>"standards". In reality, it does not increase standards because the
>information
>tested is not relevant.
It's called "accountability".
>
>One example is linking the buying of an HF transceiver to "advancement of the
>radio art", when the <real> goal is to get people to use Morse code. Soon
>people will forget the original purchase and start to believe that Morse code
>is "radio art".
You're not making any sense.
>
>Another example is saying when something is "in use", it is useful.
Why? If something has a use, it is useful.
>Contesters
>occupy as many bands as possible, and claim that each band is useful.
If they are not useful, why keep them?
>Simply
>contacting someone and exchanging callsign information is not useful.
Sure it is.
>Maybe
>useful to that person, but not to the amateur radio hobby.
Would you outlaw contests?
>
>Redefinition works fine for those with an agenda.
Your agenda seems to be redefinition of common terms.
>Honesty works better for the
>hobby.
> So, one should not call cheese sandwiches 2N2222's.
I agree!
And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio" and
"amateur radio".
One should not claim that "amateur radio" does not require a license.
>It may work fine
>for
>a while. Eventually it will be bad for everyone involved. If you are told to
>do
>so, you should politely refuse.
I politely refuse your attempt to redefine the term "amateur radio".
73 de Jim, N2EY
Vshah101
>>Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this
>>redefinition is often to control others or to increase their importance.
>
>It's for clarity.
The redefinition of "Engineer" to more an more lower tasks may have had more to
do with unions than for clarity. The Engineers are non-union. By including more
and more tasks as "Engineering" tasks, the union can be reduced.
In some cases, ENTIRE jobs are redefined as "Engineer" jobs. One can ask for a
BSEE for a "manufacturing Engineers" or "product Engineers", rather than let
union people do these non-technical tasks. These jobs are often very low
skilled. A shop person can have more than enough qualifications to do the job.
Internal job descriptions are VERY exaggerated. You will NEVER do the advanced
electronics items in the job description - and they have NO intention of
letting you. They don't represent the actual work you will be doing.
The job description also is NEGOTIATED between union and management- it has
NOTHING to do with "clarity".
>If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the
>definition.
>
>Get used to it, Vipul - that's how languages work.
No, that's how politics work. Outside that group, the MAJORITY of people will
disagree with those RE-definitions. The language has not changed - its
application in this situation has.
>Would you call yourself a Professional Engineer?
No, I would not. Here's why. In reality, I am a professional Engineer, in that
I am in the EE profession. In industry, its APPLICATION is negative. You get
disrespected for having the title of "Professional Engineer".
>>If everyone jumped off a bridge,
>>would you?
>
>Depends on how high the bridge is and how much I'm being paid.
That's where I'm different. I had a chance to "sell out" for significantly
higher pay. I did not take it. Now, I regret it.
>In reality, it does not increase standards because the
>>information
>>tested is not relevant.
>
>It's called "accountability".
It makes them look "accountable". Testing for irrelevant skill does the exact
opposite. Sort of like Morse code testing. Inserted before the General class
license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code lovers
should be embarrassed about that.
>>Another example is saying when something is "in use", it is useful.
>
>Why? If something has a use, it is useful.
You can use a toothpick(Morse) as a fork(communications mode). Its not ideal.
If many people did that it(Morse) would be used, but not useful.
Do you still eat with your hands? Maybe if you ate a cheese sandwich.
Contesting is spectrum squatting. Eventually, commercial interests will
petition to the regulators. If the ARRL's response is "we use it for contests",
the result will not be good.
>>Maybe
>>useful to that person, but not to the amateur radio hobby.
>
>Would you outlaw contests?
No. Contests do have some use. Its just not compelling enough if that all there
is.
>Your agenda seems to be redefinition of common terms.
I like to experiment, homebrew. Most Hams <in my circles> do not like that.
>And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio" and
>"amateur radio".
Ham radio is traditions, history, beliefs. Amateur radio is the license.
>One should not claim that "amateur radio" does not require a license.
I never claimed that. I just gave one example, which happened to not require a
license.
>I politely refuse your attempt to redefine the term "amateur radio".
I have not redefined amateur radio. I <basically> agree with the definition
given in the ARRL handbook.
Its the APPLICATION that makes it "Ham" radio. That's not necessarily bad, its
just a different emphasis - one not shared by most EEs.
"Ham" radio was redefined, I mean CLARIFIED, perhaps.
>73 de Jim, N2EY
Codewords "73", "de" used.
Dee D. Flint
"Vshah101" <vsha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030414215308...@mb-ck.aol.com...
>
> No, I would not. Here's why. In reality, I am a professional Engineer, in
that
> I am in the EE profession. In industry, its APPLICATION is negative. You
get
> disrespected for having the title of "Professional Engineer".
That is the silliest and most inane statement I've ever heard. Those who
have elected to seek and achieved the title of "Professional Engineer" are
respected.
> It makes them look "accountable". Testing for irrelevant skill does the
exact
> opposite. Sort of like Morse code testing. Inserted before the General
class
> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code
lovers
> should be embarrassed about that.
That is YOUR opinion. Many have a different opinion. Lately the HF bands
have been rather poor and the activity has been the best in the Morse
portion of the bands.
>
>
> I like to experiment, homebrew. Most Hams <in my circles> do not like
that.
>
So what? Lots of EEs don't like to homebrew either. That doesn't make them
any less a EE than one who does.
>
> Ham radio is traditions, history, beliefs. Amateur radio is the license.
>
But to get the license, one of the things you are tested on is "good amateur
practice". This good amateur practice is the traditions, beliefs, and
history of ham radio, which is synonymous with amateur radio.
You are defining everything that you personally don't like as "ham radio"
and what you personally do like as amateur radio. Well the amateur radio
community doesn't agree with your definitions.
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>From: vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101)
>Date: 4/14/2003 5:21 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030414182139...@mb-fd.aol.com>
>Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
>compared to a cheese sandwich.
NO, there's not...Unless we are talking about you, in which case I agree
there's confusion. And ONLY because YOU insist on trying to invent new
definitions for universally accepted terms and phraseology.
>Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this
>redefinition
>is often to control others or to increase their importance. Note that it is
>not
>just one person "redefining" words, it is a group.
In this case it's JUST you, Vipul. Everyone here agrees that Amateur
Radio and "Ham" Radio are one-in-the-same. You do not. You are the anomaly.
>They new definition is often
>widely accepted, but its still not correct. If everyone jumped off a bridge,
>would you? Often the people that created the new definition will start to
>believe their new definition.
WHAT in the WORLD are you trying to say?
>One example is linking the buying of an HF transceiver to "advancement of the
>radio art", when the <real> goal is to get people to use Morse code. Soon
>people will forget the original purchase and start to believe that Morse code
>is "radio art".
Proficiency in Morse Code communications IS part of the radio art, Vipul.
By yor own admission you are not trained or proficient in Morse Code
communications, ergo you cannot appreciate the skill and rhythm of a competent
Morse operator...Especially one using a properly adjusted and operated Bug.
>Redefinition works fine for those with an agenda. Honesty works better for
>the
>hobby. So, one should not call cheese sandwiches 2N2222's. It may work fine
>for
>a while. Eventually it will be bad for everyone involved. If you are told to
>do
>so, you should politely refuse.
OK...so for the purpose of our analogies in the future we will call
2N2222's "hockey pucks". There...that make you feel any better...???
Steve
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>From: vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101)
>Date: 4/14/2003 8:53 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030414215308...@mb-ck.aol.com>
>In some cases, ENTIRE jobs are redefined as "Engineer" jobs. One can ask for
>a
>BSEE for a "manufacturing Engineers" or "product Engineers", rather than let
>union people do these non-technical tasks. These jobs are often very low
>skilled. A shop person can have more than enough qualifications to do the
>job.
It seems to me your beef is with the National Labor Relations Board or your
shop steward.
>Internal job descriptions are VERY exaggerated. You will NEVER do the
>advanced
>electronics items in the job description - and they have NO intention of
>letting you. They don't represent the actual work you will be doing.
Then it's a contractural issue.
>The job description also is NEGOTIATED between union and management- it has
>NOTHING to do with "clarity".
It has EVERYTHING to do with clarity. Unions make absolutely sure that
they know what's expected of them, and what to expect from the corporation. If
they didn't, there'd be nothing to "negotiate" at contract times.
>No, that's how politics work. Outside that group, the MAJORITY of people will
>disagree with those RE-definitions. The language has not changed - its
>application in this situation has.
And in the application of the words "radio amateur" within THIS peergroup,
it is understood we are talking about a person who is licensed in the Amateur
Radio Service.
>No, I would not. Here's why. In reality, I am a professional Engineer, in
>that
>I am in the EE profession. In industry, its APPLICATION is negative. You get
>disrespected for having the title of "Professional Engineer".
BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !
DISRESPECTED FOR BEING A "PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER"..?!?!
WHAT an IDIOT!
>It makes them look "accountable". Testing for irrelevant skill does the exact
>opposite. Sort of like Morse code testing. Inserted before the General class
>license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code
>lovers
>should be embarrassed about that.
Embarrassed that I can do something you can't and do it well?
I don't think so ! ! !
>Contesting is spectrum squatting. Eventually, commercial interests will
>petition to the regulators. If the ARRL's response is "we use it for
>contests",
>the result will not be good.
That's why the American Radio Relay League sponsors and promotes the
emergency services programs it does, and makes darn sure those who need to know
about it do!
>No. Contests do have some use. Its just not compelling enough if that all
>there
>is.
Thankfully that's NOT all there is, but it seems to me you are not aware of
what the "other" things are, hence the flailing and floundering in
"redefinitions".
>I like to experiment, homebrew. Most Hams <in my circles> do not like that.
Then perhaps you need to quit going around in circles and set out on your
own course, Vippy. But of course the sudden change of vector will initially
cause some vertigo and disorientation, but you'll compensate eventually. Not
soon, but eventually.
>>And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio"
>and
>>"amateur radio".
>
>Ham radio is traditions, history, beliefs. Amateur radio is the license.
Wrong...again.
>"Ham" radio was redefined, I mean CLARIFIED, perhaps.
You have "CLARIFIED" nothing, Vipul. You HAVE stirred the muck however.
>Codewords "73", "de" used
They are not "codewords". They are procedural signals.
73 de K4YZ
Jim Hampton
I duzn't offen disagree with yous, but this obsuleet stuff has got to go.
Duz you no that in kollege, the perfesser kept wantin to speek in codes?
Heck, secont koorter phisics he wuz tryin to explane the energy spent by a
spring. Dang if he weren't using code! This guy goes and draws some dum
squiggly line. I objected and he sent me back to math class. That durned
guy went and starts explaining with all this obsolete code. Kin you believe
they actually use *Greek*! Delta he calls it. Looks like a little triangle
to me. Hoo boy! Heck, I went back to the phisics class and tolt him so! I
asked him what this stuff was about grams and kilograms. Ever one nos that
you measure in feet and pounds. He sez ok and asked me what a slug was - so
I slugged him. Danged if they didn't ship me off to Vietnam after that!
LOL
Please forgive the little 'humor' I had to slip into this thread.
Obviously, each profession has its' own set of 'codes'. :)
--... ...-- (I can't resist :) from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA
ps - don't take this as a hard core endorsement of Morse either (please)
...
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Dave Heil
>
> N2EY wrote:
> > Example: If everyone else calls a 2N2222 a transistor, and you insist on
> > calling it a cheese sandwich, you're the one who is the cause of confusion.
>
> Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
> compared to a cheese sandwich.
>
> There are those that believe in relative definition. Following this logic, if
> everyone believed there is no gravity, then gravity would no longer exist.
> Others believe in scientific proof.
You are the fellow touting "relative definition". I've not observed you
following any logic at all. We aren't in an "if everyone believed there
is no gravity" situation. We're in a "We all call it gravity; you call
it talcum powder" situation.
> Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this redefinition
> is often to control others or to increase their importance. Note that it is not
> just one person "redefining" words, it is a group. They new definition is often
> widely accepted, but its still not correct. If everyone jumped off a bridge,
> would you? Often the people that created the new definition will start to
> believe their new definition
When you begin to lose an argument, you really go out in a blaze of
nonsensical glory.
> One example is calling the lowest of tasks an "Engineer". A Component
> "Engineer" is someone that sorts components in a database, orders them, and (if
> they are lucky) - updates them with new components. It is a lowly task. Yet,
> with the word "Engineer" after it, it makes it sound important.
I'm sure we're all familiar with the "updates components in a database,
orders them and updates them Engineer". You really need to have a big
office door or have the words painted in very small letters for that
one.
> When politicians say that an irrelevant test, such as the MCAS, increases
> "standards", they only do so to look like they stand for better education. Not
> knowing what the test is, they may honestly believe the test increases
> "standards". In reality, it does not increase standards because the information
> tested is not relevant.
>
> One example is linking the buying of an HF transceiver to "advancement of the
> radio art", when the <real> goal is to get people to use Morse code.
Why those devious bastards! Imagine them selling transceivers when
their real goal is the insidious growth of morse code.
> Soon
> people will forget the original purchase and start to believe that Morse code
> is "radio art".
It's the mind control LSI chips built into those new transceivers which
makes mind control possible, Vipul.
> Another example is saying when something is "in use", it is useful.
If that's your example, it's a bad one.
> Contesters
> occupy as many bands as possible, and claim that each band is useful.
Tell us please, which bands aren't useful. You'll save us a lot of
wasted time and effort if we can just manage to avoid those useless
bands.
> Simply
> contacting someone and exchanging callsign information is not useful.
I don't know of any contest where the callsign is the exchange. I'll
assume that you goofed because you know nothing more about contesting
than you do about someone knowing ten word per minute morse forgetting
how to receive morse at 5 wpm. Whatever information exchanged by a
contester is quite useful in achieving a higher score in a contest.
> Maybe
> useful to that person, but not to the amateur radio hobby.
Not everything I do on the air need be useful to all of amateur radio.
> Redefinition works fine for those with an agenda. Honesty works better for the
> hobby. So, one should not call cheese sandwiches 2N2222's. It may work fine for
> a while. Eventually it will be bad for everyone involved. If you are told to do
> so, you should politely refuse.
Great. Take your own advice and quit attempting to redefine amateur
radio by making believe that "ham radio" is something different. It is
dishonest of you.
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <20030414182139...@mb-fd.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> (Vshah101) writes:
> >If everyone jumped off a bridge,
> >would you?
>
> Depends on how high the bridge is and how much I'm being paid.
When I was a kid trying to leverage my dad into buying me something, I'd
often try the old, "but all the kids have one" ploy. Dad's response
was, "If all the kids ate horse manure sandwiches, would you want one?"
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
> It makes them look "accountable". Testing for irrelevant skill does the exact
> opposite. Sort of like Morse code testing. Inserted before the General class
> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code lovers
> should be embarrassed about that.
You're a very foolish boy making very foolish statements, Vipul. After
all of your time here, you can't even properly quote someone else's
comments. Even you should be embarrassed about that.
> Contesting is spectrum squatting.
Then almost all radio is spectrum squatting.
> Eventually, commercial interests will
> petition to the regulators. If the ARRL's response is "we use it for contests",
> the result will not be good.
How do you rate the likelihood that anyone's response to the FCC would
be, "We use it for contesting"?
> >Would you outlaw contests?
>
> No. Contests do have some use. Its just not compelling enough if that all there
> is.
"It" isn't all there is.
> >Your agenda seems to be redefinition of common terms.
>
> I like to experiment, homebrew. Most Hams <in my circles> do not like that.
That's nice. It does not, however, explain your attempt to redefine
common terms.
> >And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio" and
> >"amateur radio".
>
> Ham radio is traditions, history, beliefs. Amateur radio is the license.
You are just flat wrong.
> I have not redefined amateur radio. I <basically> agree with the definition
> given in the ARRL handbook.
>
> Its the APPLICATION that makes it "Ham" radio. That's not necessarily bad, its
> just a different emphasis - one not shared by most EEs.
In this one too, you are wrong.
> "Ham" radio was redefined, I mean CLARIFIED, perhaps.
It hasn't been clarified by you.
Dave K8MN
Vshah101
>Those who
>have elected to seek and achieved the title of "Professional Engineer" are
>respected.
"Professional Engineer" has nothing to do with EE profession. Its for Civil
Engineers.
>Inserted before the General
>class
>> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code
>lovers
>> should be embarrassed about that.
>
>That is YOUR opinion.
Its also the FCC's opinion.
>Lots of EEs don't like to homebrew either. That doesn't make them
>any less a EE than one who does.
EE's that don't like to homebrew are probably in it just for the money. I truly
enjoy building circuits outside of work.
>You are defining everything that you personally don't like as "ham radio".
Thats not true. Hams like to set up antennas for their stations. I participated
in some of those. Ham radio includes antenna setups, which IS technical.
Vshah101
>>The job description also is NEGOTIATED between union and management- it has
>>NOTHING to do with "clarity".
>
> It has EVERYTHING to do with clarity. Unions make absolutely sure that
>they know what's expected of them, and what to expect from the corporation.
>If
>they didn't, there'd be nothing to "negotiate" at contract times.
The only things that are expected are things like the pay scales, hours, and
overtime issues.
The job description is meaningless. It is rationalization, probably by BOTH
sides. Go complain about a job description to a steward and they will not do
anything about it. If something to do with your hours, they will help you.
> And in the application of the words "radio amateur" within THIS peergroup,
>it is understood we are talking about a person who is licensed in the Amateur
>Radio Service.
Yes, but not "Ham" radio.
>BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !
>!
Thats mature.
>Even code
>>lovers
>>should be embarrassed about that.
>
> Embarrassed that I can do something you can't and do it well?
>
> I don't think so ! ! !
No, I'm embarrassed code lovers brag about such a skill and claim superiority
because of it. I can do it. I'm smart enough to chose not to.
>Contests do have some use. Its just not compelling enough if that all
>>there
>>is.
>
> Thankfully that's NOT all there is, but it seems to me you are not aware
>of
>what the "other" things are
Thats good to know.
>Codewords "73", "de" used
>
> They are not "codewords". They are procedural signals.
Do you talk to people in "procedural signals". For example, when leaning a
room, do you say "73"?
N2EY
writes:
HAW!
Did your Dad know the Utah Phillips story about the pie?
73 de Jim, N2EY
"it's good, though"
Dave Heil
> "it's good, though"
If he knew it, he never passed it along to me.
Dave K8MN
N2EY
> Jim,
>
> I duzn't offen disagree with yous,
Dats "youse" - rimes wit "lose"
> but this obsuleet stuff has got to go.
> Duz you no that in kollege, the perfesser kept wantin to speek in codes?
> Heck, secont koorter phisics he wuz tryin to explane the energy spent by a
> spring. Dang if he weren't using code! This guy goes and draws some dum
> squiggly line. I objected and he sent me back to math class. That durned
> guy went and starts explaining with all this obsolete code. Kin you believe
> they actually use *Greek*! Delta he calls it.
All dem fraternity boyz hav doze funny letters, too. I remember too
frats from my kollitch days: Aye Tappa Kee and Aye Phelta Thi
> Looks like a little triangle
> to me. Hoo boy! Heck, I went back to the phisics class and tolt him so! I
> asked him what this stuff was about grams and kilograms. Ever one nos that
> you measure in feet and pounds. He sez ok and asked me what a slug was - so
> I slugged him. Danged if they didn't ship me off to Vietnam after that!
> LOL
Ain it da troot. Here's a pome 'bout dat (tanks, Hanz):
THE SPELLING CHEQUER
or poet tree without mist takes)
Eye have a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marks four my revue
Miss steaks eye cannot see
Each thyme when I have struct the quays
Eye weight four it two say
If watt eye rote is wrong or rite
It shows me strait a weigh
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore too late
And eye can put the error rite
Eye really fined it grate
I've run this poem threw it
I'm sure your policed to no
It's letter perfect in its weigh
My chequer tolled me sew
- Anon
>
> Please forgive the little 'humor' I had to slip into this thread.
Nothing to forgive, Jim, funny as heck.
> Obviously, each profession has its' own set of 'codes'. :)
>
> --... ...-- (I can't resist :) from Rochester, NY
> Jim AA2QA
> ps - don't take this as a hard core endorsement of Morse either (please)
> ...
>
73 de Jim, N2EY
N2EY
> From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
> >Those who
> >have elected to seek and achieved the title of "Professional Engineer" are
> >respected.
That has been my experience, too, Dee. Some jobs require a PE, others
reward holding or earning a PE with raises, bonuses, etc.
>
> "Professional Engineer" has nothing to do with EE profession. Its for Civil
> Engineers.
WRONG!
Professional Engineering licenses are available in many engineering
disciplines. Electrical Engineering is one of them.
>
> >Inserted before the General
> >class
> >> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code
> lovers
> >> should be embarrassed about that.
> >
> >That is YOUR opinion.
>
> Its also the FCC's opinion.
No, it isn't.
FCC set up the structure that way, not hams. FCC could have done the
license lots of other ways, but they didn't. For example, some folks
think there should be only one class of license, with all privileges.
FCC could have done that, and merely required 5 wpm for HF/MF.
>
> >Lots of EEs don't like to homebrew either.
Busman's holiday.
> >That doesn't make them
> >any less a EE than one who does.
>
> EE's that don't like to homebrew are probably in it just for the money.
Nope. Untrue.
Some EEs don't have the time
Some EEs work in areas other than radio
Some EEs would rather spend their time on the air
Some EEs leave their work AT work.
Here's why there isn't more homebrewing in amateur radio: Economics -
of both time and money. For the kind of rigs most hams want, it costs
MORE to homebrew one than to buy its equivalent ready-made or assemble
a kit, even if you have EE-level knowledge and skills. Also, except in
unusual circumstances, a homebrew unit has very low resale value.
Where homebrewing "wins" is in situations where:
A ham wants to build something that is "off the beaten path"
A ham has parts sources other than Digi-Key, Mouser, etc.
The cost of the thing being built is dominated by hand labor
Which is why you see lots of hams homebrewing antennas, linear
amplifiers, etc.
> I truly
> enjoy building circuits outside of work.
That's good! How many amateur radio stations have you built? I've
built-from-scratch about eight complete HF stations. That doesn't
include kits, converted military surplus, restored/modified
manufactured rigs, test equipment or other projects.
73 de Jim, N2EY
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Message-id: <20030415002635...@mb-ck.aol.com>
>>Inserted before the General
>>class
>>> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even code
>>lovers
>>> should be embarrassed about that.
>>
>>That is YOUR opinion.
>
>Its also the FCC's opinion.
The FCC says Morse Code is "embarrassing"..???
BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !
I Suppose your can PROVE that with a quote somewhere...?!?!
>EE's that don't like to homebrew are probably in it just for the money. I
>truly
>enjoy building circuits outside of work.
Then why aren't you whining to your colleagues about THEIR lack of
interest in "homebrewing", since they are getting PAID for it?
>>You are defining everything that you personally don't like as "ham radio".
>
>Thats not true.
That's EXACTLY true. Anyone who has to wade through your drivvel knows
this to be true. Anything "good" ia "Amateur" radiod, anything "not good" is
"Ham" Radio.
>Hams like to set up antennas for their stations. I participated
>in some of those. Ham radio includes antenna setups, which IS technical.
When I read this, I am reminded of the bigot who says he's NOT a bigot
"Because some of my best friends are [enter ethnicity here]".
Steve, K4YZ
Len Over 21
>
>> "it's good, though"
>
>If he knew it, he never passed it along to me.
That still doesn't answer why you ate it... ?
Len Over 21
writes:
>Vshah101 wrote:
>>
>> N2EY wrote:
>> Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
>> compared to a cheese sandwich.
>>
>> There are those that believe in relative definition. Following this logic,
if
>> everyone believed there is no gravity, then gravity would no longer exist.
>> Others believe in scientific proof.
>
>You are the fellow touting "relative definition". I've not observed you
>following any logic at all. We aren't in an "if everyone believed there
>is no gravity" situation. We're in a "We all call it gravity; you call
>it talcum powder" situation.
Tsk, tsk, tsk...new confusion! Talcum powder v. gravity!
>When you begin to lose an argument, you really go out in a blaze of
>nonsensical glory.
No one else has confused talcum powder and gravity...only
Heil. Strange!
>Why those devious bastards! Imagine them selling transceivers when
>their real goal is the insidious growth of morse code.
Trouble in da Hood?
The Gang of Four arguing over the "growth of morse code?!?"
>It's the mind control LSI chips built into those new transceivers which
>makes mind control possible, Vipul.
Tsk, tsk, tsk...Heil needs his V-Chip updated! :-)
>Tell us please, which bands aren't useful. You'll save us a lot of
>wasted time and effort if we can just manage to avoid those useless
>bands.
Anything above 30 cm is "useless" to Real Hams.
Real Hams work DX on HF with CW.
>I don't know of any contest where the callsign is the exchange. I'll
>assume that you goofed because you know nothing more about contesting
>than you do about someone knowing ten word per minute morse forgetting
>how to receive morse at 5 wpm. Whatever information exchanged by a
>contester is quite useful in achieving a higher score in a contest.
"Anything goes?" :-)
>Not everything I do on the air need be useful to all of amateur radio.
You exist, therefore you rule!
>Great. Take your own advice and quit attempting to redefine amateur
>radio by making believe that "ham radio" is something different. It is
>dishonest of you.
[mental picture of stern taskmaster wagging finger... :-) ]
Chewing out on cheese sandwiches?
-----------------
New local paper advertisement today:
Complete HAM Dinner....$39.99...serves 8 to 10 people.
Old Fashioned Bone-In HAM...$1.99 a pound.
On the dinner, I'd suppose a photocopy of a ham license is
sufficient proof for purchase... :-)
Lots of old-fashioned hams already in here, confusing transistors
and cheese sandwiches, talcum powder and gravity. They seem
to have a bone to pick with everyone not old fashioned...or have
too much bone in their cranial cavity. :-)
Len Over 21
writes:
>In article <20030414182139...@mb-fd.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
>(Vshah101) writes:
>
>>N2EY wrote:
>>> Example: If everyone else calls a 2N2222 a transistor, and you insist on
>>> calling it a cheese sandwich, you're the one who is the cause of
>confusion.
>>
>>Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
>>compared to a cheese sandwich.
>
>Yes, Vipul, you appear to be very confused.
Does your boss know you can't tell the difference between
a transistor and a cheese sandwich?
>>Others believe in scientific proof.
>
>You're off base again, Vipul.
Amateur radio physics isn't based on science?!?
>The existence of things is provable given a few basic assumptions. What
>humans choose to call these things is purely subjective.
Have you been studying to change jobs to the purchasing
department?
[those Purchase Orders are going to look silly...]
>Once upon a time, transistors were called "crystal triodes". Typical bipolar
>transistors are just that. But that name never caught on, and "transistor" is
>the term used for about the past 50+ years.
Jimmie seems confused...as if he was hearing things 2+
years before he was born...
>>Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this
>>redefinition is often to control others or to increase their importance.
>
>It's for clarity.
So...why do you want to change the EIA registered part numbers
of a transistor to "cheese sandwich?"
2N2222 is only six characters. "Cheese sandwich" requires 13.
>If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the
>definition.
I get the sneaky feeling you are going to call a Field Effect
Transistor (FET) as a "picnic sandwich." :-)
[picnics are held in open fields...]
>Get used to it, Vipul - that's how languages work.
Okay...when delicatessens and coffee shops start putting
EIA registry numbers for semiconductors on their menus,
we can begin to talk... :-)
>>If everyone jumped off a bridge,
>>would you?
>
>Depends on how high the bridge is and how much I'm being paid.
Amateur radio is "...not for pecuniary reasons."
It's gotta be the "religious aspect," then, a "belief system."
>If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the
>definition.
So far, the delis, coffee shops, restaurants, and cook book
publishers aren't calling sandwiches by EIA registry numbers.
>Maybe where you work. I'm not a components engineer.
Very few know what you do at work. You are afraid to explain
anything.
From your concentration on sandwiches, I'd come to the
conclusion you work in the company cafeteria...
>It's called "accountability".
Which is it, purchasing department, accounting, or cafeteria?
>You're not making any sense.
You are the one mixing up "cheese sandwiches" and transistors.
Offhand, I'd say you aren't making any sense at all.
>Why? If something has a use, it is useful.
...therefore there MUST be a license test for it?
>>Contesters
>>occupy as many bands as possible, and claim that each band is useful.
>
>If they are not useful, why keep them?
Political pressure from cafeterias and puchasing departments.
>Would you outlaw contests?
Do you contest outlaws?
>Your agenda seems to be redefinition of common terms.
Your agenda seems to be making everyone else eat
their words... :-)
>And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio" and
>"amateur radio".
FCC hasn't used the terms "ham radio" as synonymous with
"amateur radio."
Perhaps the FCC building cafeteria doesn't have cheese
sandwiches on its menu? :-)
>One should not claim that "amateur radio" does not require a license.
Tsk, tsk, tsk, there were dozens of hams (amateur radio operators)
before 1912.
Not only was there no radio regulating agency but the "hams"
picked out their own "callsigns!"
>I politely refuse your attempt to redefine the term "amateur radio".
No problem. I politely refuse to consider you fully rational or
a radio god. :-)
Len Over 21
writes:
>When I was a kid trying to leverage my dad into buying me something, I'd
>often try the old, "but all the kids have one" ploy. Dad's response
>was, "If all the kids ate horse manure sandwiches, would you want one?"
>
>Dave K8MN
Shouldn't the question on everyone's mind be: "Why did you?"
Bon apetit! :-)
Len Over 21
Robeson K4YZ) writes:
>>Subject: When is a 2N2222 transistor a cheese sandwich?
>>From: vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101)
>>Date: 4/14/2003 5:21 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <20030414182139...@mb-fd.aol.com>
>
>>Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
>>compared to a cheese sandwich.
>
> NO, there's not...Unless we are talking about you, in which case I agree
>there's confusion. And ONLY because YOU insist on trying to invent new
>definitions for universally accepted terms and phraseology.
Tsk, tsk, tsk...all you radio gods don't seem to know the
difference between transistors and sandwiches. :-)
> In this case it's JUST you, Vipul. Everyone here agrees that Amateur
>Radio and "Ham" Radio are one-in-the-same. You do not. You are the anomaly.
Tsk, tsk, tsk...the "enforcer" of the Gang of Four has Laid Down
Da Rulez!
> WHAT in the WORLD are you trying to say?
All the other readers have been wondering what YOU were saying.
:-)
> Proficiency in Morse Code communications IS part of the radio art,
>Vipul.
Forever and ever, amen. :-)
> By yor own admission you are not trained or proficient in Morse Code
>communications, ergo you cannot appreciate the skill and rhythm of a
>competent
>Morse operator...Especially one using a properly adjusted and operated Bug.
Yes, "ordinary mundanes" in every other US radio service
just don't appreciate the glory, the majesty, of morse code.
That's why they've either dropped it or never considered it.
You don't get no respect.
You are Rodney Dangerfield without humor. :-)
> OK...so for the purpose of our analogies in the future we will call
>2N2222's "hockey pucks". There...that make you feel any better...???
A hockey puck calling a transistor a hockey puck.
Poor guy, now he thinks he is Don Rickles... :-)
Len Over 21
writes:
>> Redefinition works fine for those with an agenda. Honesty works better for
the
>> hobby. So, one should not call cheese sandwiches 2N2222's. It may work fine
for
>> a while. Eventually it will be bad for everyone involved. If you are told to
do
>> so, you should politely refuse.
>
>Great. Take your own advice and quit attempting to redefine amateur
>radio by making believe that "ham radio" is something different. It is
>dishonest of you.
Der colonel has spoken.
From now on all hams will call transistors "sandwiches."
If not, they will be chewed out.
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>From: vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101)
>Date: 4/14/2003 11:40 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030415004015...@mb-ck.aol.com>
>> It has EVERYTHING to do with clarity. Unions make absolutely sure that
>>they know what's expected of them, and what to expect from the corporation.
>>If
>>they didn't, there'd be nothing to "negotiate" at contract times.
>
>The only things that are expected are things like the pay scales, hours, and
>overtime issues.
I have been proceeding on the assumption that you are an educated person,
Vipul.
It's apparent am wrong in that regard.
While those items ARE of great importance, theya re far from being the
ONLY issues facing modern organized labor, including safety issues, health
care, education and training.
If thos items are the ONLY issues some union you are affiliated with is
interested in, then you are being grossly shortchanged.
>The job description is meaningless. It is rationalization, probably by BOTH
>sides. Go complain about a job description to a steward and they will not do
>anything about it. If something to do with your hours, they will help you.
Unions are SUPPOSED to be democratic bodies, that body made up of the
membership of the union. If your shop steward is not getting the results you
think you deserve, the represented members need to get rid of him.
>> And in the application of the words "radio amateur" within THIS peergroup,
>>it is understood we are talking about a person who is licensed in the
>Amateur
>>Radio Service.
>
>Yes, but not "Ham" radio.
Yes...HAM RADIO is understood to be persons who are licensed in the
Amateur Radio service.
I again challenge you to put "Ham Radio" in a search engine and then come
up with a reult OTHER than Amateur Radio.
>>BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !
>>!
>
>Thats mature
I am sorry, Vipul, but I DO break out into open laughter when I read much
of your stuff. You just don't realize what a fool you make of yourself in a
public forum. You are the newsgroup equivilent of the guy slipping on the
banana peel. The problem is you AIM for the banana peel!
>> Embarrassed that I can do something you can't and do it well?
>>
>> I don't think so ! ! !
>
>No, I'm embarrassed code lovers brag about such a skill and claim superiority
>because of it. I can do it. I'm smart enough to chose not to.
I've been a licensed Amateur Radio operator since 1972, Vipul, and have
yet to meet ONE person who "claim(s) superiority" as a result of their
proficency in Morse Code.
Not a one.
Are there people who are proud of it? Sure there are. Why not? But
there are also people who are proud of being able to fly remote control
airplanes, bake those large three-tier wedding cakes, or drive a Formula 1 car.
So what?
As far as you being "smart enough to chose not to", all I can say is that
YOU have conciously elected to NOT go any farther that No Code Technician (for
now, anyway), and that if VHF and above is all you want, then you have
succeeded in getting what you want.
Now, WHY are YOU conciously acting to denigrate and demean those who have
chose to get what THEY want by applying themselves to the task at hand and
meeting the requirements of the law to get there?
>Do you talk to people in "procedural signals". For example, when leaning a
>room, do you say "73"?
We are not "talking", Vipul. This is a digital domain. Yes, I would print
"73 de K4YZ" if this were teletype, AMTOR, PSK 31, etc.
And I "lean" in a lot of rooms if I am tired enough. What does leaning
have to do with what I say?
73 de K4YZ
N2EY
> From N2EY:
>
> >>Often words are redefined in a specific setting. The goal of this
> >>redefinition is often to control others or to increase their importance.
> >
> >It's for clarity.
>
> The redefinition of "Engineer" to more an
"and"
> more lower tasks may have had more to
> do with unions than for clarity.
Maybe where you are. Not in the entire field of engineering. Union
labor as a percentage of the workforce keeps dropping.
> The Engineers are non-union. By including more
> and more tasks as "Engineering" tasks, the union can be reduced.
Get the most out of a resource for the least $$. Management 101.
>
> In some cases, ENTIRE jobs are redefined as "Engineer" jobs. One can ask for a
> BSEE for a "manufacturing Engineers" or "product Engineers", rather than let
> union people do these non-technical tasks. These jobs are often very low
> skilled. A shop person can have more than enough qualifications to do the job.
Are you in a union or non-union job?
>
> Internal job descriptions are VERY exaggerated. You will NEVER do the advanced
> electronics items in the job description - and they have NO intention of
> letting you. They don't represent the actual work you will be doing.
So go find another job.
>
> The job description also is NEGOTIATED between union and management- it has
> NOTHING to do with "clarity".
Welcome to the real world.
I think I know what happend to you. It's a common enough occurrence
these days.
You went to EE school, took all the techno courses that appealed to
you and endured the other requirements. Learned how to analyze
circuits, did some projects, etc. Thought you'd be doing that sort of
stuff every day.
Then you got an entry-level job and discovered that it's not like that
in every "engineering" job, particularly the entry-level ones in a
slow economy right after the dot-com and telecom balloons busted.
Sorry, that's the way things are right now.
> >If a big enough group defines a word a certain way, then that's the
> >definition.
> >
> >Get used to it, Vipul - that's how languages work.
>
> No, that's how politics work.
It's how languages work. Particularly English. Definitions change and
evolve over time, like the spam example I gave.
> Outside that group, the MAJORITY of people will
> disagree with those RE-definitions. The language has not changed - its
> application in this situation has.
Let's cut through all your BS and get right to the point:
Everyone except you defines "ham radio" and "amateur radio" as meaning
exactly the same thing. No difference. Equivalent.
You want to define the two terms to mean different things. In
addition, neither of your definitions for the two terms matches the
definitions used by everyone else.
The cheese sandwich/2N2222 analogy went right over your head, too.
>
> >Would you call yourself a Professional Engineer?
>
> No, I would not.
That's good, because without that PE license, you ain't one.
> Here's why. In reality, I am a professional Engineer, in that
> I am in the EE profession.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts may beg to differ on that.
> In industry, its APPLICATION is negative. You get
> disrespected for having the title of "Professional Engineer".
What industry are you IN, anyway?
>
> >>If everyone jumped off a bridge,
> >>would you?
> >
> >Depends on how high the bridge is and how much I'm being paid.
>
> That's where I'm different. I had a chance to "sell out" for significantly
> higher pay. I did not take it. Now, I regret it.
What ARE you talking about? "Sell out"??
> >>Another example is saying when something is "in use", it is useful.
> >
> >Why? If something has a use, it is useful.
By definition.
>
> You can use a toothpick(Morse) as a fork(communications mode). Its not ideal.
No communications mode is "ideal". Just like no eating implement is
ideal. A toothpick can be very useful for eating certain things that
would crumble under a fork.
> If many people did that it(Morse) would be used, but not useful.
Many people use Morse on the ham bands. It is useful.
Or are you going to redefine "useful"?
Last night I had a nice QSO on 80 meter CW with a ham in WPA. I was
running my homebrew rig and he was using a 3 watt kit rig from Small
Wonder. Great signals, lots of fun. Very useful.
>
> Do you still eat with your hands?
Sure.
>Maybe if you ate a cheese sandwich.
Or roasted chicken pieces in olive oil with garlic, rosemary and black
pepper. Or lots of other foods best eaten by hand.
>
> Contesting is spectrum squatting.
What is "spectrum squatting"?
> Eventually, commercial interests will
> petition to the regulators. If the ARRL's response is "we use it for contests",
> the result will not be good.
Is there something wrong with having fun? Do you get mad every
Patriot's Day when the Boston Marathon is run, shutting down roads and
causing traffic jams so people can use a very old form of
transportation?
>
> >>Maybe
> >>useful to that person, but not to the amateur radio hobby.
> >
> >Would you outlaw contests?
>
> No. Contests do have some use. Its just not compelling enough if that all there
> is.
Contests are not all there is.
btw, contests do serve a technical purpose, particularly the big ones.
They serve as testing environments for equipment and antennas. All of
the weaknesses in a station will be exposed by a contest - which is
why some folks don't like them.
>
> >Your agenda seems to be redefinition of common terms.
>
> I like to experiment, homebrew. Most Hams <in my circles> do not like that.
Then get into different circles. There are newsgroups and reflectors
devoted to homebrewing and experimenting.
Do you know what a Tayloe detector is?
>
> >And one should not claim that there is any difference between "ham radio" and
> >"amateur radio".
>
> Ham radio is traditions, history, beliefs. Amateur radio is the license.
Only to you. Everyone else thinks differently. Which means you are
just like the person who calls a cheese sandwich a 2N2222
>
> >One should not claim that "amateur radio" does not require a license.
>
> I never claimed that.
Yes, you did.
> I just gave one example, which happened to not require a
> license.
>
Then it's not amateur radio.
> >I politely refuse your attempt to redefine the term "amateur radio".
>
> I have not redefined amateur radio. I <basically> agree with the definition
> given in the ARRL handbook.
No, you don't.
>
> Its the APPLICATION that makes it "Ham" radio. That's not necessarily bad, its
> just a different emphasis - one not shared by most EEs.
This EE says you are way off base.
>
> "Ham" radio was redefined, I mean CLARIFIED, perhaps.
Not by you!
>
> >73 de Jim, N2EY
>
> Codewords "73", "de" used.
Yep. Live with it.
73 de Jim, N2EY
Here's a poem by Mason Williams (best known for "Classical Gas").
Quite appropriate:
The Prince's Panties
Once there was a prince
Who acted strangely
In that he thought life was stupid
And it was, for him
So he made up a world
In which he liked the things we like
Except that he had different reasons
Why he liked them
He liked butter
For its color
He would order
"Toast and color"
Waitresses, confused,
Would utter:
"Sir, I've never heard of
Toast and color"
He'd get angry and
Begin to choke them
The law would come and
They'd arrest and book him
So his life was a mess of trouble
Still, he kept it up.
He had dogs
A hundred cocker spaniels
He called them "panties"
'Cause they did that lovely
He did not care that they
Would bark and fetch sticks
Run and jump, roll over
And play dead tricks
No he liked them only
For their panting
So he would
Run them ragged
But one day they got fed up
And chased the prince right up against a fence
And the prince was eaten by his "panties".
Phil Kane
>"Professional Engineer" has nothing to do with EE profession. Its for Civil
>Engineers.
Tell that to the several states in which I am registered as a
Professional Engineer with an EE specialty. If you are in
California I refer you to the Business and Professions Code
that defines over a dozen specialties which require a PE license
to practice or to use the title.
In my wife's company, sorting and ordering of compenents, etc
is done by non-college-graduate technician-level personnel
called design assistants. Is that what you do?
Your statements show you to be a buffoon who has demonstrated a
profound lack of knowledge about EEs, CEs, and PEs and the
engineering profession in general.
Were you sleeping in the introductory college seminar on what
the engineering profession is all about or did you just play
hooky?
--
73 de Phil Kane - K2ASP
Phil Kane
>No, I would not. Here's why. In reality, I am a professional
>Engineer, in that I am in the EE profession. In industry, its
>APPLICATION is negative. You get disrespected for having the
>title of "Professional Engineer".
If you want to work for the company that I represent and sign
bids, plans and documents to be submitted to clients or to
governmental agencies, you had -better- be licensed as a
Professional Engineer or you won't get to do it. "Risk
management" a.k.a. lawsuit protection.
Ditto for my wife's company, the largest environmental
engineering company in the world.
That, my friend, is hardly -disrespect- .
--
73 de Phil Kane - K2ASP
Registered P. E. since 1961
Phil Kane
>If your shop steward is not getting the results you
>think you deserve, the represented members need to get rid of him.
Especially if they expect the shop steward to make chicken stew
out of chicken feathers.
Vshah101
>FCC set up the structure that way, not hams.
Refer to statements from FCC stating learning Morse code does not necesarily
make you a better operator.
>Which is why you see lots of hams homebrewing antennas, linear
>amplifiers, etc.
True, I've seen several Hams homebrewing amplifiers as well as antenna at a CT
Hamfest.
Vshah101
>I again challenge you to put "Ham Radio" in a search engine and then come
>up with a reult OTHER than Amateur Radio.
Won't find it. Searching periodical CD's such as QST, 73, etc will get more
relavant results. However, no mention of cult will be found.
>You are the newsgroup equivilent of the guy slipping on the
>banana peel. The problem is you AIM for the banana peel!
You must invite a non-Ham to a Hamfest and ask what his/her impressions are.
>And I "lean" in a lot of rooms if I am tired enough. What does leaning
>have to do with what I say?
Sorry, I meant say '73' after LEAVING (not leaning) a room.
Dave Heil
>
> From(N2EY)
>
> >FCC set up the structure that way, not hams.
>
> Refer to statements from FCC stating learning Morse code does not necesarily
> make you a better operator.
You'll have to trust me on this one, Vipul. Learning morse really makes
one a better operator if the mode is CW.
> >Which is why you see lots of hams homebrewing antennas, linear
> >amplifiers, etc.
>
> True, I've seen several Hams homebrewing amplifiers as well as antenna at a CT
> Hamfest.
Then why do you keep telling us that hams don't like homebrewing?
Dave K8MN
No CW Test
(Len Over 21) writes:
Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a head
for a reservation.....
Vshah101
>Are you in a union or non-union job?
Been on both sides of the fence. Non-union now.
>You went to EE school, took all the techno courses that appealed to
>you and endured the other requirements. Learned how to analyze
>circuits, did some projects, etc. Thought you'd be doing that sort of
>stuff every day.
That's probably right.
>> That's where I'm different. I had a chance to "sell out" for significantly
>> higher pay. I did not take it. Now, I regret it.
>
>What ARE you talking about? "Sell out"??
Switch over into the IT field, for significantly higher pay. I chose not to
because I wanted to work with EE stuff. Now, I regret it.
>> >Why? If something has a use, it is useful.
>
>By definition.
Incorrect.
>Last night I had a nice QSO on 80 meter CW with a ham in WPA. I was
>running my homebrew rig and he was using a 3 watt kit rig from Small
>Wonder. Great signals, lots of fun. Very useful.
That's because the two Ham operators choosed that mode. If you had not choosed
that mode, it would not be in use.
>What is "spectrum squatting"?
Occupying the bands by contests and then claiming Hams have a use for those
freqs since there is a lot of activity on those freqs.
>contests do serve a technical purpose, particularly the big ones.
>They serve as testing environments for equipment and antennas.
Sure.
>Do you know what a Tayloe detector is?
No.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Your story does not make sense.
Vshah101
>Did your Dad know the Utah Phillips story about the pie?
I don't know that story. What is it?
Dee D. Flint
"Vshah101" <vsha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030415002635...@mb-ck.aol.com...
> From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
> >Those who
> >have elected to seek and achieved the title of "Professional Engineer"
are
> >respected.
>
> "Professional Engineer" has nothing to do with EE profession. Its for
Civil
> Engineers.
You have just shown your overwhelming ignorance. You can be a licensed
Professional Engineer in any field of engineering. It is more common for
Civil Engineers to take this step but one can be a licensed Professional
Engineer in EE, Mechanical Engineering, Aerospace Engineering and so on.
It's just not done as often in the other fields.
>
> >Inserted before the General
> >class
> >> license, its very irresponsible and embarrassing to the hobby. Even
code
> >lovers
> >> should be embarrassed about that.
> >
> >That is YOUR opinion.
>
> Its also the FCC's opinion.
The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or embarrassing.
They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is an
entirely different thing.
>
> >Lots of EEs don't like to homebrew either. That doesn't make them
> >any less a EE than one who does.
>
> EE's that don't like to homebrew are probably in it just for the money. I
truly
> enjoy building circuits outside of work.
Some of the EE's love the elegant mathematics but have no interest in
working directly with hardware. Fast Fourier Transforms really turn them
on. That doesn't mean they are in it just for the money.
Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
study.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Dee D. Flint
> Codewords "73", "de" used
> >
> > They are not "codewords". They are procedural signals.
>
> Do you talk to people in "procedural signals". For example, when leaning a
> room, do you say "73"?
Actually is not uncommon for amateur radio operators to do so. In every
specialized activity, a specialized vocabulary is developed. The
participants in that activity will often carry those terms into every day
speech especially when engaged in ordinary daily social activities involving
other members of the group.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Dee D. Flint
> From K4YZ:
>
> >I again challenge you to put "Ham Radio" in a search engine and then come
> >up with a reult OTHER than Amateur Radio.
>
> Won't find it. Searching periodical CD's such as QST, 73, etc will get
more
> relavant results. However, no mention of cult will be found.
>
They don't mention cult because it isn't. Only YOU have attempted to define
it as a cult.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Vshah101
>The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or embarrassing.
>They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is an
>entirely different thing.
True, thats what FCC said.
I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
>Some of the EE's love the elegant mathematics but have no interest in
>working directly with hardware.
Even elegent math is hands on. That's what my Comm Theory Prof endorses.
Programs such as Mathcad assist in this.
>Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
>study.
Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
Mike Coslo
Dave Heil wrote:
> Vshah101 wrote:
>
>> Contesters occupy as many bands as possible, and claim that each
>> band is useful.
>
>
> Tell us please, which bands aren't useful. You'll save us a lot of
> wasted time and effort if we can just manage to avoid those useless
> bands.
Here is one of those statements that makes me wonder if this dude knows
anything about rf at all! While working contests, I've worked people
down the bands as the contest progresses. The different bands are all
useful sometimes, and not so useful at others. Methinks Vipul might do
well to take some time away from trolling rrap, and study a little
propagation!
>> Simply contacting someone and exchanging callsign information is
>> not useful.
>
>
> I don't know of any contest where the callsign is the exchange. I'll
> assume that you goofed because you know nothing more about
> contesting than you do about someone knowing ten word per minute
> morse forgetting how to receive morse at 5 wpm. Whatever information
> exchanged by a contester is quite useful in achieving a higher score
> in a contest.
Agreed, Dave. Not knowing the similarities between contesting and
emergency ops just shows ignorance of both.
Just so ya know Vipul:
Contesting gets people to dust off the rigs and make sure the antenna
is up and working.
Contesting gets people to communicate across the country/world.
In pursuit of the score, it hones your operating skills, that is, you
work stations that may be weak and hard to read. Good practice for real
emergencies.
In real emergencies, people exchange information, just like in a
contest. THe information is certainly more in depth, but so what? If you
don't get the information correct in the exchange, you don't get the
score. In some contests, they subtract points. Accuracy is important in
both cases.
So yeah, it is a game. But its practice for emergency ops too. And it's
fun. So what? How many people would participate if it wasn't? In a real
emergency, the person may be operating from a half charged car battery,
be sick with dysentery or injury or worse, and have lots of other
problems. But that doesn't matter.
Since we don't know where the next emergency is going to happen, if we
have lots of people who are trained all over the country, there is a
good chance someone will be able to help if disaster strikes.
As Linus said to Charlie Brown in "A Charlie Brown Christmas" "And that
Vshah, is the true meaning of contesting!" (apologies to Charles Schultz)
- Mike KB3EIA -
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
It's about....no, I can't. It's just TOO EASY!
>What is it?
>
Look it up, Vipul.
Use any search engine to find the Utah Phillips website. There's a recording of
him telling the story. The key word is "moose".
If you think your job isn't the best, just remember that there are far worse
ones.
73 de Jim, N2EY
"it's good, though!"
Dave Heil
N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact:
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio
amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr.
Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors, ethnic
slurs, excessive emoticons and general infantile behavior."
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <3E9B8558...@earthlink.net>, Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net>
> writes:
>
> >When I was a kid trying to leverage my dad into buying me something, I'd
> >often try the old, "but all the kids have one" ploy. Dad's response
> >was, "If all the kids ate horse manure sandwiches, would you want one?"
> Shouldn't the question on everyone's mind be: "Why did you?"
No, I don't think that should be the question on everyone's mind. That
doesn't make any sense.
> Bon apetit! :-)
"Appetit", Len. Your version looks like some sort of simian mammary
gland.
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <3E9B8428...@earthlink.net>, Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net>
> writes:
>
> >Vshah101 wrote:
> >>
> >> N2EY wrote:
>
> >> Apparently, there is some confusion here on what is a 2N2222 transistor,
> >> compared to a cheese sandwich.
> >>
> >> There are those that believe in relative definition. Following this logic,
> if
> >> everyone believed there is no gravity, then gravity would no longer exist.
> >> Others believe in scientific proof.
> >
> >You are the fellow touting "relative definition". I've not observed you
> >following any logic at all. We aren't in an "if everyone believed there
> >is no gravity" situation. We're in a "We all call it gravity; you call
> >it talcum powder" situation.
>
> Tsk, tsk, tsk...new confusion! Talcum powder v. gravity!
Sorry you're confused, Len. Others seem to be following along--with the
possible exception of Vipul Shah.
> >When you begin to lose an argument, you really go out in a blaze of
> >nonsensical glory.
>
> No one else has confused talcum powder and gravity...only
> Heil. Strange!
Why that simply doesn't make sense, Leonard. I wrote of Vipul's
confusion, not my own.
> >Why those devious bastards! Imagine them selling transceivers when
> >their real goal is the insidious growth of morse code.
>
> Trouble in da Hood?
>
> The Gang of Four arguing over the "growth of morse code?!?"
N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact:
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio
amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr.
Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors, ethnic
slurs, excessive emoticons and general infantile behavior."
> >It's the mind control LSI chips built into those new transceivers which
> >makes mind control possible, Vipul.
>
> Tsk, tsk, tsk...Heil needs his V-Chip updated! :-)
We're not discussing broadcast TV, VCR's and the like, Len. :-) :-) :-)
:-) :-) :-)
> >Tell us please, which bands aren't useful. You'll save us a lot of
> >wasted time and effort if we can just manage to avoid those useless
> >bands.
>
> Anything above 30 cm is "useless" to Real Hams.
>
> Real Hams work DX on HF with CW.
You seem to be the only individual making such statements and you aren't
even a ham.
> >I don't know of any contest where the callsign is the exchange. I'll
> >assume that you goofed because you know nothing more about contesting
> >than you do about someone knowing ten word per minute morse forgetting
> >how to receive morse at 5 wpm. Whatever information exchanged by a
> >contester is quite useful in achieving a higher score in a contest.
>
> "Anything goes?" :-)
Don't worry about it, Len. We're discussing amateur radio.
> >Not everything I do on the air need be useful to all of amateur radio.
>
> You exist, therefore you rule!
My statement had nothing to do with ruling. Did you misunderstand it?
> >Great. Take your own advice and quit attempting to redefine amateur
> >radio by making believe that "ham radio" is something different. It is
> >dishonest of you.
>
> [mental picture of stern taskmaster wagging finger... :-) ]
>
> Chewing out on cheese sandwiches?
>
> -----------------
>
> New local paper advertisement today:
>
> Complete HAM Dinner....$39.99...serves 8 to 10 people.
>
> Old Fashioned Bone-In HAM...$1.99 a pound.
>
> On the dinner, I'd suppose a photocopy of a ham license is
> sufficient proof for purchase... :-)
>
> Lots of old-fashioned hams already in here, confusing transistors
> and cheese sandwiches, talcum powder and gravity. They seem
> to have a bone to pick with everyone not old fashioned...or have
> too much bone in their cranial cavity. :-)
N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact:
Vshah101
>Contesting gets people to dust off the rigs and make sure the antenna
>is up and working.
>
> Contesting gets people to communicate across the country/world.
>
> In pursuit of the score, it hones your operating skills, that is, you
>work stations that may be weak and hard to read. Good practice for real
>emergencies.
>
> In real emergencies, people exchange information, just like in a
>contest. THe information is certainly more in depth, but so what? If you
>don't get the information correct in the exchange, you don't get the
>score. In some contests, they subtract points. Accuracy is important in
>both cases.
>
>
> So yeah, it is a game. But its practice for emergency ops too. And it's
>fun. So what? How many people would participate if it wasn't? In a real
>emergency, the person may be operating from a half charged car battery,
>be sick with dysentery or injury or worse, and have lots of other
>problems. But that doesn't matter.
>
> Since we don't know where the next emergency is going to happen, if we
>have lots of people who are trained all over the country, there is a
>good chance someone will be able to help if disaster strikes.
Thats interesting, honest, and compelling. Thanks.
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Message-id: <20030415200910...@mb-cv.aol.com>
>>What ARE you talking about? "Sell out"??
>
>Switch over into the IT field, for significantly higher pay. I chose not to
>because I wanted to work with EE stuff. Now, I regret it.
I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
forget about it forever" situation.
If you want to do it, DO IT...Otherwise stop whining because it is them
apparent that all you are interested in IS whining.
>>Last night I had a nice QSO on 80 meter CW with a ham in WPA. I was
>>running my homebrew rig and he was using a 3 watt kit rig from Small
>>Wonder. Great signals, lots of fun. Very useful.
>
>That's because the two Ham operators choosed that mode. If you had not
>choosed
>that mode, it would not be in use.
But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
Nothing unreal exists, Vipul.
Steve, K4YZ
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Message-id: <20030415195527...@mb-cv.aol.com>
>From K4YZ:
>
>>I again challenge you to put "Ham Radio" in a search engine and then come
>>up with a reult OTHER than Amateur Radio.
>
>Won't find it. Searching periodical CD's such as QST, 73, etc will get more
>relavant results. However, no mention of cult will be found.
In OTHER words, you KNOW I am right, ergo you refuse to do it.
I can live with that.
>>You are the newsgroup equivilent of the guy slipping on the
>>banana peel. The problem is you AIM for the banana peel!
>
>You must invite a non-Ham to a Hamfest and ask what his/her impressions are
To watch you slip on a banana peel, Vipul? I am a nurse...I don't dwell
on other people's suffering...I try to ease it.
>>And I "lean" in a lot of rooms if I am tired enough. What does leaning
>>have to do with what I say?
>
>Sorry, I meant say '73' after LEAVING (not leaning) a room.
If it's a roomful of Hams, yes, I might say "73". I would also say "Vaya
con Dios" leaving a roomful of Spanish speaking people, and I might say "break
a leg" if I were in a roomful of actors. So what?
Steve, K4YZ
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Message-id: <20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>
>>Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
>>study.
>
>Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
What does YOUR lack of knowledge of your own occupational field hve to do
with EE's hombrewing?
Steve
N2EY
> From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
>
> >The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or embarrassing.
> >They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is an
> >entirely different thing.
>
> True, thats what FCC said.
Then you misquoted the FCC.
>
> I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
FCC doesn't think so.
Y'know what's really embarrassing? When folks who consider themselves
"professionals" claim that a simple one-time 5 wpm code receiving test
is any sort of "barrier" to a license. Particularly considering the
accomodations available.
> When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
> those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
Why not?
>
> >Some of the EE's love the elegant mathematics but have no interest in
> >working directly with hardware.
>
> Even elegent math is hands on. That's what my Comm Theory Prof endorses.
> Programs such as Mathcad assist in this.
All the theory and math in the world doesn't get a thing done without
hardware.
There's an old saying, usually attributed to Von Braun, about this.
(btw, he is reputed to have hated the term "rocket scientist":
"Scientists dream of doing great things. Engineers do them."
>
> >Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
> >study.
>
> Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
I knew someone who said that homebrewing is "embarrassing to the
hobby". This radio amateur claimed that most homebrew equipment looked
crude, had a low level of workmanship and was usually far behind the
'state-of-the-art' for the application. This person also said that
homebrew was embarrassing to the hobby because it made hams look like
they could not afford manufactured equipment.
I disagreed with him, of course.
73 de Jim, N2EY
Len Over 21
Robeson K4YZ) writes:
>>Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
>
> What does YOUR lack of knowledge of your own occupational field hve to
>do with EE's hombrewing?
How in the hell can YOU know about "being an EE," nursie?
The farthest into engineering you ever got was as a purchasing
agent in a local electronics company...and then for less than a
year.
You can't even describe carpal tunnel syndrome correctly and
you expect to "correct others?"
Len Over 21
<Phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop> writes:
Ex purchasing agents never had any "shop stewards."
USMC didn't have "shop stewards."
Do hospital nurses have "shop stewards?"
Isn't there a separate newsgroup for the marine corps,
nursing and service-support individuals?
Len Over 21
CW Test) writes:
>In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>, leno...@aol.com
>(Len Over 21) writes:
>
>>>> Did your Dad know the Utah Phillips story about the pie?
>>>
>>>> "it's good, though"
>>>
>>>If he knew it, he never passed it along to me.
>>
>> That still doesn't answer why you ate it... ?
>
>Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
"No CW Test" was a screen name I used some years ago on
America Online and for messaging in here. I haven't used that
screen name for at least two years. AOL only reserves old
screen names for six months. After six months anyone can
use it.
You've used it here without any respect whatsoever, trying to
ape the original screen name user. No supplementary ID at
all. Just blatant COPYING of what another has done. In the
media that is PLAGIARISM, boy.
You are without honor, without respect for acts of plagiarism.
>Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
>Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
>outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a
>head for a reservation.....
You are also a racial bigot. No respect earned there, either.
If you wish to audition for the Comedy Store doing stand-up acts,
I can tell Mitzi Shore you are coming. Neither she nor the
audience cares for plagiarists who copy others' material.
Len Over 21
(Vshah101) writes:
>From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
>
>>The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or embarrassing.
>>They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is an
>>entirely different thing.
>
>True, thats what FCC said.
Some licensees are VERY uptight about their amateurism.
It's best to humor some of them.
>I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
>When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
>those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
Those uptighters ought to inform the public that they think
US ham radio is all about "working DX on HF with CW."
>>Some of the EE's love the elegant mathematics but have no interest in
>>working directly with hardware.
>
>Even elegent math is hands on. That's what my Comm Theory Prof endorses.
>Programs such as Mathcad assist in this.
I get the sneaky feeling Dee does little but operate an 026 punch.
:-)
Some of the uptighters who don't know a transistor from a sandwich
probably think that engineers still use slide rules or "design" by
laborious mathematics all day at a desk, just pushing paper.
The same ones also seem to think that ALL the radio knowledge
needed by anyone is already in ARRL's Handbook. :-)
>>Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
>>study.
>
>Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
Go easy on the uptight, Shah. They get very upset when their
beloved morsemanship is slighted. :-)
Len Over 21
(N2EY) writes:
>vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101) wrote in message
>news:<20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>...
>> From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
>>
>> >The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or
>embarrassing.
>> >They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is an
>> >entirely different thing.
>>
>> True, thats what FCC said.
>
>Then you misquoted the FCC.
No problem. You've done the same thing whenever I brought
up the fact that the FCC said, in 1990 and 1999, that the
morse code test didn't prove anything to the FCC insofar as
amateur licensing.
You had to step around that, avoid it, and make a big thing
about the "treaty requirements." Tsk, tsk, tsk.
>> I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
>
>FCC doesn't think so.
FCC doesn't outright state that US amateur radio IS a hobby. :-)
It IS, but you have to glorify it beyond rational bounds.
>> Even elegent math is hands on. That's what my Comm Theory Prof endorses.
>> Programs such as Mathcad assist in this.
>
>All the theory and math in the world doesn't get a thing done without
>hardware.
>
>There's an old saying, usually attributed to Von Braun, about this.
>(btw, he is reputed to have hated the term "rocket scientist":
>
>"Scientists dream of doing great things. Engineers do them."
Tell us of the great "rocket things" you've done. :-)
Do you have a granted patent in radio? I have. Just one.
[the bear shooter has only one, but not about radio...]
>I knew someone who said that homebrewing is "embarrassing to the
>hobby". This radio amateur claimed that most homebrew equipment looked
>crude, had a low level of workmanship and was usually far behind the
>'state-of-the-art' for the application. This person also said that
>homebrew was embarrassing to the hobby because it made hams look like
>they could not afford manufactured equipment.
>
>I disagreed with him, of course.
You do a lot of disagreeable things, Jimmie.
But, you've built a KIT recently as your "homebrew" thing...
:-)
How DO you wire up a cheese sandwich in a circuit?
Len Over 21
Mike, tsk, tsk, tsk...you should have stayed with "wry" instead
of hitting the rye:
> Contesting gets people to dust off the rigs and make sure the antenna
>is up and working.
One has to do contesting to find that out?!?!?
> Contesting gets people to communicate across the country/world.
True, but do they need contests to do that? I don't think so.
> In pursuit of the score, it hones your operating skills, that is, you
>work stations that may be weak and hard to read. Good practice for real
>emergencies.
WHAT "real emergencies" need low-level operating skills?
Be specific there. Use ARRL newsletters for a reference.
> In real emergencies, people exchange information, just like in a
>contest. THe information is certainly more in depth, but so what?
"So what?!?" Real emergencies involve Loss of Life or
Possible Loss of Life.
Contesting doesn't have any mortal danger, despite the
peculiar fantasies of some contesters.
>If you
>don't get the information correct in the exchange, you don't get the
>score. In some contests, they subtract points. Accuracy is important in
>both cases.
If you are going to "equate" contesting with Real Emergencies
in such a flippant manner, then it's time for some psychological
counseling for you.
> So yeah, it is a game. But its practice for emergency ops too.
No, contesting is certainly NOT any "practice" for "emergency
ops."
Games have rules. Real Emergencies don't come with "rules,"
aren't announced ahead of time, and you may have to work with
a lot of OTHER agencies who DO plan, drill, practice for all kinds
of contingencies NOT in any game rule book.
>And it's
>fun. So what? How many people would participate if it wasn't?
Are Real Emergencies "fun" in your estimation? Have you ever
been IN one? Or do you get your Real Emergency news from
good old ARRL along with all the self-serving self-promotional
emotional pumping they do?
>In a real
>emergency, the person may be operating from a half charged car battery,
>be sick with dysentery or injury or worse, and have lots of other
>problems. But that doesn't matter.
"It doesn't matter?!?"
That's a weird as hell comment, Mike.
> Since we don't know where the next emergency is going to happen, if we
>have lots of people who are trained all over the country, there is a
>good chance someone will be able to help if disaster strikes.
MOST of the Real Emergencies that happen in the USA and most
of its possessions involve LOCAL communications, distances
within line of sight range.
Real Emergencies need liason with local authorities: Medics,
firemen, policemen, aid agencies. Real Emergencies don't have
rules or "point scorers." Real Emergencies need all involved to
work with other agencies for as many possible contingencies as
one can think of, and to be prepared for those that nobody could
foresee. Real Emergencies do NOT need expert, trained
morsemen to interface with other emergency agencies in a
local area. Real Emergency organizations don't give a damn
if you've appeared in three successive sweepstakes in the top
ten for three years running or have file cabinets full of QSL
cards. Real Emergencies don't have preplanned events and
you don't "score points" by thinking you are better than all the
other agency professionals...unless you train, plan, practice
WITH them.
Now quit all the fantasizing about contesting being the "same"
as emergency ops. It isn't. No points for you.
Len Over 21
<Phil...@nov.shmovz.ka.pop> writes:
>On 15 Apr 2003 04:26:35 GMT, Vshah101 wrote:
>
>>"Professional Engineer" has nothing to do with EE profession. Its for Civil
>>Engineers.
>
> Tell that to the several states in which I am registered as a
> Professional Engineer with an EE specialty. If you are in
> California I refer you to the Business and Professions Code
> that defines over a dozen specialties which require a PE license
> to practice or to use the title.
Shah isn't in California. If you check the California state law
of Professional Engineers and their licensing and titling, you
will find that corporations can very well, legally and honestly
call electronics engineers as engineers.
You and others were confusing "profession" with Licensed
Professional Engineers...or deliberately misdirecting the thread
in order to win message points in here. "Professions" are
applied to work done for pecuniary reasons. This whole
newsgroup is about AMATEUR radio, defined by federal
regulation as an activity without pecuniary compensation.
I'm not a Licensed Professional Engineer in any state.
Never been one. Didn't need to be. Several large national
corporations have titled me as an "engineer" quite legally
and honestly. Such "engineers" AND the Licensed
Professional Engineers get "respect" from other engineers
based on the work they do and how well they've done it.
The pecuniary compensation is okay as far as I'm concerned
but Licensed Professional Engineers need the protection
from state laws so that they can overcharge corporations
and afford the legal fees involved when they screw up on a
job (such as in the medical field and malpractice insurance).
All done legally and "honestly," of course.
Interesting that such Licensing laws were written by attorneys
at law for politicians. Attorneys at law also bill their clients
at rather high rates, don't they? Attorneys at law also like to
play lots of word games about law.
> Your statements show you to be a buffoon who has demonstrated a
> profound lack of knowledge about EEs, CEs, and PEs and the
> engineering profession in general.
Is this a newsgroup about Licensed Professional Engineers?
I thought it was about AMATEUR RADIO POLICY.
Unless there's been an overnight change in Part 97 or elsewhere
in Title 47, amateur radio is a radio activity carried out without
pecuniary reasons.
Amateur radio licensing is done as a regulatory tool by a federal
radio regulating agency. The FCC doesn't award "respect" by
amateur radio license grants. That's a fantasy self-promotion
by individual amateurs. License grants are regulatory tools,
not certificates of achievement.
Amateurs of any kind who confuse cheese sandwiches with
EIA registered transistor identifying numbers don't deserve any
"respect." Neither do those who confuse "talcum powder" with
"gravity."
Strange bunch of regulars in here who can't seem to focus on
the newsgroup general subject.
Dave Heil
>
> In article <20030416024439...@mb-fy.aol.com>, k4...@aol.com (Steve
> Robeson K4YZ) writes:
>
> >>Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
> >
> > What does YOUR lack of knowledge of your own occupational field hve to
> >do with EE's hombrewing?
>
> How in the hell can YOU know about "being an EE," nursie?
I'm sure he knows at least as much about being an electrical engineer as
you do about being a ham, Leonard.
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> (Vshah101) writes:
.
>
> >I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
> >When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
> >those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
>
> Those uptighters ought to inform the public that they think
> US ham radio is all about "working DX on HF with CW."
I've been informing the public that YOU believe that amateur radio is
all about working DX on HF with CW. A number of them want to know what
DX is, what HF is and what CW is. When I told some hams what you
believe, they all wondered who Leonard H. Anderson is.
Dave K8MN
Vshah101
>What does YOUR lack of knowledge of your own occupational field hve to do
>with EE's hombrewing?
Firstly, a "Professional Engineer" is not relevant to what I want to do with EE
degree.
Secondly, Dee has came up with several reasons why many EEs don't homebrew.
Seems like endorsing that EEs should not homebrew.
No CW Test
(Len Over 21) writes:
>In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com
>(No
>CW Test) writes:
>
>>In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>, leno...@aol.com
>>(Len Over 21) writes:
>>
>>>>> Did your Dad know the Utah Phillips story about the pie?
>>>>
>>>>> "it's good, though"
>>>>
>>>>If he knew it, he never passed it along to me.
>>>
>>> That still doesn't answer why you ate it... ?
>>
>>Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>
> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
LOL!!
Who is a PLAGIARIST?
>
> "No CW Test" was a screen name I used some years ago on
> America Online and for messaging in here.
What a coincidence! :-O
I have read that you used
other screen names here.
Several of them. ;-)
> I haven't used that
> screen name for at least two years. AOL only reserves old
> screen names for six months. After six months anyone can
> use it.
So what's the problem?
You gave up the screen
name. Somebody else
picked it up. Why does
it bother you so much?
I'm not claiming to be you.
> You've used it here without any respect whatsoever, trying to
> ape the original screen name user.
They say imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery, Leonard ;-)
Why does it bother you if
someone models their posting
style after yours? Is it copyrighted?
Patented?
Don't you want to be treated the
way you treat others?
I'd think you'd be flattered.
> No supplementary ID at
> all.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Many of your posts that I have read
do not contain any supplementary ID.
There is no supplementary ID in your
post to which I am replying now.
> Just blatant COPYING of what another has done.
ROFLMBFAO!!!
I did not try to pass off any of your
original work as my own, Leonard.
I did not copy anything you or
anyone else wrote without attribution.
No one who reads my posts thinks that
I am you or you are me.
I do not think newgroup postings are
copyrighted.
> In the media that is PLAGIARISM, boy.
"BOY"?
That is a racial SLUR to many people.
It is also inaccurate in a literal sense. I am
not a boy.
If you met me in person, you might hesitate
to call me "BOY".
I would never call a stranger "boy". Why do
you?
>
> You are without honor, without respect for acts of plagiarism.
Where is your honor, Leonard? Why should
anyone respect you? You rarely, if ever,
show respect for others in your postings here.
You have not shown me any respect at all.
Poor baby....do you expect to get what you
do not give and have not earned?
>>Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
>>Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
>>outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a
>>head for a reservation.....
>
> You are also a racial bigot.
How do you get that from the joke?
I heard it from Mr. Phillips. Is he a
racial bigot?
I do not think the joke is racially
offensive to anyone. If someone
of Navajo or Native American
ethnicity is offended, I sincerely
apologize.
I'm not the one calling unseen
strangers "BOY", Leonard. You
are. In just the past few weeks
I have read you making fun of
the jobs, educations, military
services, nationalities and
many other features of people
who post here. You even make
fun of their names.
> No respect earned there, either.
That is correct. You have not earned
any respect from me. I am showing
you respect that you have not
earned. Maybe that is what bothers
you.
>
> If you wish to audition for the Comedy Store doing stand-up acts,
> I can tell Mitzi Shore you are coming. Neither she nor the
> audience cares for plagiarists who copy others' material.
>
You seem to be very upset by all this,
Leonard. Poor baby...tsk, tsk, tsk. ;-) ;-) ;-)
Just to show you I am a nice person,
Leonard, I'll just stop using this screen
name. After seeing how you treat
other people, I would not want anyone
to think I was you. :-P
What other screen names should I
avoid? Someone wrote that you
have used 'LenOf21', 'averyfine',
'averyfineman', 'MegHz', and
others. List all the screen names
that you have ever used so I won't
accidentally pick one of them.
Please try to be a nicer person,
Leonard. People might be nice to
you in return.
Bye-bye now. Say hi to Mitzi
and the gang for me.
Vshah101
>> When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
>> those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
>
>Why not?
It looks like a bunch of grown up kids playing with their baby keyer toys.
The non-Ham does know that Morse code is old, something unfortunately, a large
group of Hams does not know.
>There's an old saying, usually attributed to Von Braun, about this.
>(btw, he is reputed to have hated the term "rocket scientist"
I hate that term too.
>"Scientists dream of doing great things. Engineers do them."
The math can be more difficult for a scientist. I prefer to design things.
>"Scientists dream of doing great things. Engineers do them."
The math can be more difficult for a scientist. I prefer to design things.
Brian
And who Heil/K8MN is.
I told them that you showed up in my logs a couple of times, but I was
working so many at the time that I realy couldn't recall.
Dee D. Flint
> From: "Dee D. Flint" dee...@qix.net
>
> >The FCC has NOT said anything about it being irresponsible or
embarrassing.
> >They are merely questioning the need to keep it a requirement. That is
an
> >entirely different thing.
>
> True, thats what FCC said.
>
> I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
> When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks
what
> those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
No, you are the only person that has that point of view. Morse code and
keyers are and always will be part of the hobby no matter what direction
future regulations may take. It is no more embarrassing advertising these
items than it is the radios or other amateur radio accessories and
paraphenalia.
>
> >Some of the EE's love the elegant mathematics but have no interest in
> >working directly with hardware.
>
> Even elegent math is hands on. That's what my Comm Theory Prof endorses.
> Programs such as Mathcad assist in this.
>
> >Vipul, it is quite obvious that you know nothing about your own field of
> >study.
>
> Seems like you will try to find reasons for EEs NOT to homebrew.
No I don't. It's simply that homebrew is not for everyone. EE, like any
other activity or career, has many facets and to attempt to limit it by what
you prefer is silly.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Vshah101
>I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>forget about it forever" situation.
Thats how the EE field /IT phenom works in this country. I cannot go back in
time and get that IT job that I don't like (I like EE stuff).
>But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
Those Hams chose Morse code, because the hobby pressures them to do so. Outside
of Ham radio, Morse code is not useful.
Dee D. Flint
No that is not endorsing homebrewing or the lack of it. EE is a very broad
field with room for people to pursue a variety of aspects. Some will
homebrew and some will not. You are trying to force all EEs to homebrew,
thus limiting them to your perception of EE.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Dee D. Flint
> From N2EY:
> >> When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks
what
> >> those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
> >
> >Why not?
>
> It looks like a bunch of grown up kids playing with their baby keyer toys.
>
> The non-Ham does know that Morse code is old, something unfortunately, a
large
> group of Hams does not know.
>
Almost all hobbies look like a bunch of grown up kids playing with their
toys. Try fourwheeling, fishing, auto racing, almost anything you can name
looks silly to somebody.
Dee Flint, N8UZE
Dave Heil
>
> Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3E9DDC6D...@earthlink.net>...
> > Len Over 21 wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> > > (Vshah101) writes:
> > .
> > >
> > > >I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
> > > >When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
> > > >those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
> > >
> > > Those uptighters ought to inform the public that they think
> > > US ham radio is all about "working DX on HF with CW."
> >
> > I've been informing the public that YOU believe that amateur radio is
> > all about working DX on HF with CW. A number of them want to know what
> > DX is, what HF is and what CW is. When I told some hams what you
> > believe, they all wondered who Leonard H. Anderson is.
> >
> > Dave K8MN
>
> And who Heil/K8MN is.
That'd be silly. The hams hereabouts all know who I am.
> I told them that you showed up in my logs a couple of times, but I was
> working so many at the time that I realy couldn't recall.
Was that during your alleged DXpedition to Somalia, Brian?
Dave K8MN
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Message-id: <20030416231211...@mb-m18.aol.com>
>From K4YZ:
>
>>I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>>forget about it forever" situation.
>
>Thats how the EE field /IT phenom works in this country. I cannot go back in
>time and get that IT job that I don't like (I like EE stuff).
Vippy, if you want to work in IT, I can safely promise you that there will
be more opportunities if yo just keep your eyes open.
>>But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
>
>Those Hams chose Morse code, because the hobby pressures them to do so.
BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! !
! ! ! !
Ya didit again, Vippy! Salved my tired soul with more irreverent and
ill-concieved humor! Thanks!
>Outside of Ham radio, Morse code is not useful.
Since this is an Amateur Radio newsgroup and we are (supposedly, but not
really) discussing things germane to Amateur Radio, who CARES if Morse Code is
useful outside of Amateur Radio or not?
I don't.
73 de K4YZ
Len Over 21
Robeson K4YZ) writes:
> Since this is an Amateur Radio newsgroup and we are (supposedly, but not
>really) discussing things germane to Amateur Radio, who CARES if Morse Code
>is useful outside of Amateur Radio or not?
>
> I don't.
Not a problem. Steamy Stalker hasn't known anything about
radio outside of amateur radio since he pounded his first beep
in the crib.
Dave Heil
N2EY:
"No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio
amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr.
Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors,
ethnic/racial/religious slurs, excessive emoticons and/or general
infantile
behavior."
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com (No
> CW Test) writes:
>
> >In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>, leno...@aol.com
> >(Len Over 21) writes:
> >Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>
> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
A PLAGIARIST? What's been plagiarized--your lengthy treatise on your
amateur radio experiences?
> "No CW Test" was a screen name I used some years ago on
> America Online and for messaging in here. I haven't used that
> screen name for at least two years. AOL only reserves old
> screen names for six months. After six months anyone can
> use it.
It looks like someone is using it.
> You've used it here without any respect whatsoever, trying to
> ape the original screen name user. No supplementary ID at
> all. Just blatant COPYING of what another has done. In the
> media that is PLAGIARISM, boy.
I've never heard of a case where three words run together constituted
plagiarism. It looks more like an exerpt from some of your work.
What's with the "boy" stuff? How do you know that the current user of
the screen name isn't older than you? If he happens to be black, he
might think about kicking your tired, old, white butt.
> You are without honor, without respect for acts of plagiarism.
I'm not certain about the honor portion but the guy does have a great
sense of humor.
> >Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
> >Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
> >outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a
> >head for a reservation.....
>
> You are also a racial bigot. No respect earned there, either.
You've just used the term "boy" toward someone and you call him a racial
bigot over the above joke? I'd love to know where you find the bigotry
in the joke. Nothing demeaning at all was said about American Indians.
Privies aren't a racial stereotype of the North American Indian. We
have plenty of 'em in this state but we're a little shy of North
American Indians. Use of the names of North American Indians isn't an
indication of racial bigotry. The term "reservation" isn't an indicator
or racial bigotry. I'll mark this down as yet another in a long line of
baseless rants posted by you.
> If you wish to audition for the Comedy Store doing stand-up acts,
> I can tell Mitzi Shore you are coming. Neither she nor the
> audience cares for plagiarists who copy others' material.
They never booked Milton Berle? How did you come to be in the know
about what Mitzi Shore cares for?
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <3E9CAA87...@psu.edu>, Mike Coslo <mj...@psu.edu> writes:
>
> Mike, tsk, tsk, tsk...you should have stayed with "wry" instead
> of hitting the rye:
>
> > Contesting gets people to dust off the rigs and make sure the antenna
> >is up and working.
>
> One has to do contesting to find that out?!?!?
I didn't see a claim that contesting was the only way to find out.
> > Contesting gets people to communicate across the country/world.
>
> True, but do they need contests to do that? I don't think so.
I didn't see a claim that it requires a contest for that to happen.
They do provide an excuse for it to happen, much like a hamfest provides
an opportunity for hams to get together, swap yarns, pick through junk
and eat generally bad food.
> > In pursuit of the score, it hones your operating skills, that is, you
> >work stations that may be weak and hard to read. Good practice for real
> >emergencies.
>
> WHAT "real emergencies" need low-level operating skills?
What low level operating skills? What do you know of contesters'
operating skills?
> Be specific there. Use ARRL newsletters for a reference.
Be specific. Call upon your vast experience in amateur radio contesting
as a reference.
> > In real emergencies, people exchange information, just like in a
> >contest. THe information is certainly more in depth, but so what?
>
> "So what?!?" Real emergencies involve Loss of Life or
> Possible Loss of Life.
Our ARES group participates in mock prison riots. We haven't figured
out how to arrange a real prison riot. That and we no longer have an
operational prison in the area.
> Contesting doesn't have any mortal danger, despite the
> peculiar fantasies of some contesters.
Practice makes perfect.
> >If you
> >don't get the information correct in the exchange, you don't get the
> >score. In some contests, they subtract points. Accuracy is important in
> >both cases.
>
> If you are going to "equate" contesting with Real Emergencies
> in such a flippant manner, then it's time for some psychological
> counseling for you.
If you're going to dismiss the value of contesting in honing operating
skills in such an arrogant manner, it is time for you to seek new
sources of information for your mental database.
> > So yeah, it is a game. But its practice for emergency ops too.
>
> No, contesting is certainly NOT any "practice" for "emergency
> ops."
Is this more from your vast experience in amateur radio contesting?
> Games have rules. Real Emergencies don't come with "rules,"
> aren't announced ahead of time, and you may have to work with
> a lot of OTHER agencies who DO plan, drill, practice for all kinds
> of contingencies NOT in any game rule book.
We haven't figured out how to arrange a real prison riot, a real tornado
or a real flood for practice purposes. Field Day and drills will have
to do for most of us. If you'd like to drop by, we can arrange to leave
you in Wildcat Hollow so the gang can practice looking for a lost
person. It would be, from your perspective, fairly realistic.
> >And it's
> >fun. So what? How many people would participate if it wasn't?
>
> Are Real Emergencies "fun" in your estimation? Have you ever
> been IN one? Or do you get your Real Emergency news from
> good old ARRL along with all the self-serving self-promotional
> emotional pumping they do?
You always resort to something like this in an effort to dismiss the
skills of another or to take a shot at the ARRL. You surely do know a
lot for a guy who isn't involved in amateur radio.
> > Since we don't know where the next emergency is going to happen, if we
> >have lots of people who are trained all over the country, there is a
> >good chance someone will be able to help if disaster strikes.
>
> MOST of the Real Emergencies that happen in the USA and most
> of its possessions involve LOCAL communications, distances
> within line of sight range.
Not all emergencies happen in the United States. Not all of those which
do take place in the United States involve local communications. As
you've told us, real emergencies don't have rules. You use what you
need or what you have in dealing with an emergency.
> Real Emergencies need liason with local authorities: Medics,
> firemen, policemen, aid agencies. Real Emergencies don't have
> rules or "point scorers." Real Emergencies need all involved to
> work with other agencies for as many possible contingencies as
> one can think of, and to be prepared for those that nobody could
> foresee. Real Emergencies do NOT need expert, trained
> morsemen to interface with other emergency agencies in a
> local area. Real Emergency organizations don't give a damn
> if you've appeared in three successive sweepstakes in the top
> ten for three years running or have file cabinets full of QSL
> cards. Real Emergencies don't have preplanned events and
> you don't "score points" by thinking you are better than all the
> other agency professionals...unless you train, plan, practice
> WITH them.
SOME real emergencies involve liaison with local authorities. Some need
liaison with state or federal authorities. Some don't need liaison with
any authorities. If you decide to come to participate in our Wildcat
Hollow lost person scenario, you might as well leave that cellular phone
at home. They don't work in Wildcat Hollow.
> Now quit all the fantasizing about contesting being the "same"
> as emergency ops. It isn't. No points for you.
Quit pretending that you know all about contesting and amateur radio's
part in emergency efforts. You don't.
Dave K8MN
Dave Heil
>
> In article <c2356669.03041...@posting.google.com>, N2...@AOL.COM
> (N2EY) writes:
> Do you have a granted patent in radio? I have. Just one.
You've regaled us with the tale so often that it seems like many more.
> [the bear shooter has only one, but not about radio...]
That's one each for the bear shooter and the bull shooter.
That brings up an interesting point. Weren't you the guy working safely
in the rear area during the Korean War who felt compelled to tell us
about they flying time for a Soviet Bear bomber to reach Tokyo? If I'm
not mistaken, that'd give you both the bear shooter and bull shooter
crowns.
Dave K8MN
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Date: 4/17/2003 12:01 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3E9EDDCF...@earthlink.net>
>
>Len Over 21 wrote:
>>
>> In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com
>(No
>> CW Test) writes:
>>
>> >In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>,
>leno...@aol.com
>> >(Len Over 21) writes:
>
>> >Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>>
>> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
>
>A PLAGIARIST? What's been plagiarized--your lengthy treatise on your
>amateur radio experiences?
That's a laugh...From a guy who's "experiences" come from what he's
cut-and-pasted from other websites...
>> "No CW Test" was a screen name I used some years ago on
>> America Online and for messaging in here. I haven't used that
>> screen name for at least two years. AOL only reserves old
>> screen names for six months. After six months anyone can
>> use it.
>
>It looks like someone is using it.
Hmmmmm...first Lennie starts berating whoever has reactivated his
"NoCWTest" nomme de guerre, (there never WAS a "CW" test anyway...), then he
openly admits that "anyone" can use an inactive screen name after six months.
Seems to me he's got nothing to gripe about.
>> You've used it here without any respect whatsoever, trying to
>> ape the original screen name user. No supplementary ID at
>> all. Just blatant COPYING of what another has done. In the
>> media that is PLAGIARISM, boy.
No...PLAGIARISM is taking the works of another and claiming it as your
own...The current "owner" of "NoCWTest" has done no such thing.
>I've never heard of a case where three words run together constituted
>plagiarism. It looks more like an exerpt from some of your work.
>What's with the "boy" stuff? How do you know that the current user of
>the screen name isn't older than you? If he happens to be black, he
>might think about kicking your tired, old, white butt.
>
>> You are without honor, without respect for acts of plagiarism.
>
>I'm not certain about the honor portion but the guy does have a great
>sense of humor.
For sure! And I think Lennie should be dodging lightning bolts for his
assailing another about "honor".
Leonard H Anderson is one of the most cowardly, lying, dishonorable creeps
I have ever known.
His attempts to embellesh his own military service by associating himself
with Army KIA's in Korea was absolutely disgusting. There are more vile and
evil things in the world (murderers, child molesters, etc), but after them,
Lennie's right up there.
>> >Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
>> >Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
>> >outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a
>> >head for a reservation.....
>>
>> You are also a racial bigot. No respect earned there, either.
>
>You've just used the term "boy" toward someone and you call him a racial
>bigot over the above joke? I'd love to know where you find the bigotry
>in the joke. Nothing demeaning at all was said about American Indians.
>Privies aren't a racial stereotype of the North American Indian. We
>have plenty of 'em in this state but we're a little shy of North
>American Indians. Use of the names of North American Indians isn't an
>indication of racial bigotry. The term "reservation" isn't an indicator
>or racial bigotry. I'll mark this down as yet another in a long line of
>baseless rants posted by you.
>
>> If you wish to audition for the Comedy Store doing stand-up acts,
>> I can tell Mitzi Shore you are coming. Neither she nor the
>> audience cares for plagiarists who copy others' material.
>
>They never booked Milton Berle? How did you come to be in the know
>about what Mitzi Shore cares for?
Lennie's very selective in who he chooses to invoke as "evidence" that
he's right or "vindicated" But very rarely is he ever right.
73
Steve, K4YZ
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>From(N2EY)
>
>>FCC set up the structure that way, not hams.
>
>Refer to statements from FCC stating learning Morse code does not necesarily
>make you a better operator.
Which statements?
From my reading of the FCC's statements on the need for Morse code TESTING, the
FCC thinks that there is no longer any need for Morse code testing other than
meeting the requirements of ITU-R S25.5. FCC said, in effect, that they don't
see any significant difference in the on-air behavior of non-code-tested vs.
code-tested hams. In other words, they don't think reducing or dropping the
code test would cause any more rules violations that we have now.
>>Which is why you see lots of hams homebrewing antennas, linear
>>amplifiers, etc.
>
>True, I've seen several Hams homebrewing amplifiers as well as antenna at a
>CT Hamfest.
See? Homebrewing is out there.
73 de Jim, N2EY
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>From K4YZ:
>>What does YOUR lack of knowledge of your own occupational field hve to do
>>with EE's hombrewing?
>
>Firstly, a "Professional Engineer" is not relevant to what I want to do with
>EE degree.
Then you don't need one.
In other fields of EE, a PE is almost mandatory. And the terms "PE" and
"Professional Engineer" have specific meanings. They both require a license
from the state.
>
>Secondly, Dee has came up with several reasons why many EEs don't homebrew.
>Seems like endorsing that EEs should not homebrew.
>
Only to you. Dee and I were explaining, not advocating.
73 de Jim, N2EY
Len Over 21
(Vshah101) writes:
Robeson doesn't realize this last paragraph. Robeson hasn't
worked in radio communications outside of amateur radio.
Len Over 21
writes:
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
Len Over 21
Len Over 21
>>Subject: Re: When is a 2N2222 transistor a cheese sandwich?
>>From: vsha...@aol.com (Vshah101)
>>Date: 4/16/2003 10:12 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <20030416231211...@mb-m18.aol.com>
>
>>From K4YZ:
>>
>>>I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>>>forget about it forever" situation.
>>
>>Thats how the EE field /IT phenom works in this country. I cannot go back in
>>time and get that IT job that I don't like (I like EE stuff).
>
> Vippy, if you want to work in IT, I can safely promise you that there
will
>be more opportunities if yo just keep your eyes open.
>
>>>But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
>>
>>Those Hams chose Morse code, because the hobby pressures them to do so.
>
>BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! !
! ! ! !
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Robeson's views, they
will be the target of Robeson's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-
calling, put-downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of his
self-importance...not to mention using the childish "BWAHA"
across the screen.
Len Over 21
writes:
>Len Over 21 wrote:
>>
>> In article <3E9CAA87...@psu.edu>, Mike Coslo <mj...@psu.edu> writes:
>>
>I didn't see a claim that it requires a contest for that to happen.
>They do provide an excuse for it to happen, much like a hamfest provides
>an opportunity for hams to get together, swap yarns, pick through junk
>and eat generally bad food.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>What low level operating skills? What do you know of contesters'
>operating skills?
>
>> Be specific there. Use ARRL newsletters for a reference.
>
>Be specific. Call upon your vast experience in amateur radio contesting
>as a reference.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>
>> > In real emergencies, people exchange information, just like in a
>> >contest. THe information is certainly more in depth, but so what?
>>
>> "So what?!?" Real emergencies involve Loss of Life or
>> Possible Loss of Life.
>
>Our ARES group participates in mock prison riots. We haven't figured
>out how to arrange a real prison riot. That and we no longer have an
>operational prison in the area.
>
>> Contesting doesn't have any mortal danger, despite the
>> peculiar fantasies of some contesters.
>If you're going to dismiss the value of contesting in honing operating
>skills in such an arrogant manner, it is time for you to seek new
>sources of information for your mental database.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>Is this more from your vast experience in amateur radio contesting?
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>We haven't figured out how to arrange a real prison riot, a real tornado
>or a real flood for practice purposes. Field Day and drills will have
>to do for most of us. If you'd like to drop by, we can arrange to leave
>you in Wildcat Hollow so the gang can practice looking for a lost
>person. It would be, from your perspective, fairly realistic.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>You always resort to something like this in an effort to dismiss the
>skills of another or to take a shot at the ARRL. You surely do know a
>lot for a guy who isn't involved in amateur radio.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>SOME real emergencies involve liaison with local authorities. Some need
>liaison with state or federal authorities. Some don't need liaison with
>any authorities. If you decide to come to participate in our Wildcat
>Hollow lost person scenario, you might as well leave that cellular phone
>at home. They don't work in Wildcat Hollow.
>
>> Now quit all the fantasizing about contesting being the "same"
>> as emergency ops. It isn't. No points for you.
>
>Quit pretending that you know all about contesting and amateur radio's
>part in emergency efforts. You don't.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
Len Over 21
writes:
>Len Over 21 wrote:
>>
>> In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com
>(No
>> CW Test) writes:
>>
>> >In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>,
>leno...@aol.com
>> >(Len Over 21) writes:
>
>> >Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>>
>> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
>
>A PLAGIARIST? What's been plagiarized--your lengthy treatise on your
>amateur radio experiences?
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>plagiarism. It looks more like an exerpt from some of your work.
>What's with the "boy" stuff? How do you know that the current user of
>the screen name isn't older than you? If he happens to be black, he
>might think about kicking your tired, old, white butt.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Heil's views, they will
be the target of Heil's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-calling, put-
downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of Heil's self-
importance...and failure to be original...not to mention doing a
very bad imitation of Otto Preminger.
>They never booked Milton Berle? How did you come to be in the know
>about what Mitzi Shore cares for?
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
Dave Heil
From: Len Over 21 (leno...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: 34 Years Ago Today
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2002-12-08 21:01:08 PST
"The distance between Chongjin, North Korea and Tokyo (where
I was assigned) is about 500 air miles. The distance between
Vladivostok, USSR, was about the same distance. That's about
an hour's flight in a Bear (NATO name for a Soviet bomber). Less
time of flight now with jet turbine aircraft."
There it is. Google knows.
Love your "I have a patent and you don't" routine, Leonard. You're a
class act.
Dave K8MN
Len Over 21
writes:
>In article <20030415194659...@mb-cv.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
>(Vshah101) writes:
>
>>From(N2EY)
>>
>>>FCC set up the structure that way, not hams.
>>
>>Refer to statements from FCC stating learning Morse code does not necesarily
>>make you a better operator.
>
>Which statements?
See FCC 90-53, 98-143, and 99-412.
An R&O, an NPRM, and an R&O.
Go direct to the FCC Reading Room in DC or on the web.
Len Over 21
Stalker) writes:
>>Subject: Re: When is a 2N2222 transistor a cheese sandwich?
>>From: Dave Heil k8...@earthlink.net
>>Date: 4/17/2003 12:01 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <3E9EDDCF...@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Len Over 21 wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com
>>(No
>>> CW Test) writes:
>>>
>>> >In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>,
>>leno...@aol.com
>>> >(Len Over 21) writes:
>>
>>> >Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>>>
>>> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
>>
>>A PLAGIARIST? What's been plagiarized--your lengthy treatise on your
>>amateur radio experiences?
>
> That's a laugh...From a guy who's "experiences" come from what he's
>cut-and-pasted from other websites...
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Robeson's views, they
will be the target of Robeson's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-
calling, put-downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of
Robeson's self-importance and experience...plus the typos
done in anger in emotion-laden "replies"...not to mention puerile
bigotry and sexual-connotation comments.
> For sure! And I think Lennie should be dodging lightning bolts for his
>assailing another about "honor".
>
> Leonard H Anderson is one of the most cowardly, lying, dishonorable
>creeps I have ever known.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Robeson's views, they
will be the target of Robeson's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-
calling, put-downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of
Robeson's self-importance and experience...plus the typos
done in anger in emotion-laden "replies"...not to mention puerile
bigotry and sexual-connotation comments.
> His attempts to embellesh his own military service by associating himself
>with Army KIA's in Korea was absolutely disgusting. There are more vile and
>evil things in the world (murderers, child molesters, etc), but after them,
>Lennie's right up there.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Robeson's views, they
will be the target of Robeson's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-
calling, put-downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of
Robeson's self-importance and experience...plus the typos
done in anger in emotion-laden "replies"...not to mention puerile
bigotry and sexual-connotation comments.
> Lennie's very selective in who he chooses to invoke as "evidence" that
>he's right or "vindicated" But very rarely is he ever right.
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that any newsgroup opponent has,
if said opponent fails to honor and revere Robeson's views, they
will be the target of Robeson's arrogant insults, ridicule, name-
calling, put-downs, denigrations, and gross exaggerations of
Robeson's self-importance and experience...plus the typos
done in anger in emotion-laden "replies"...not to mention puerile
bigotry and sexual-connotation comments.
Get mental help, Robeson.
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>From N2EY:
>>> When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks
>what
>>> those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
>>
>>Why not?
>
>It looks like a bunch of grown up kids playing with their baby keyer toys.
If it makes them feel younger, that's a good thing.
After all, the only difference between men and boys is the price/size of their
toys ;-)
>
>The non-Ham does know that Morse code is old, something unfortunately, a
>large group of Hams does not know.
>
So what if it's old? The English language is old, and the alphabet we use with
it even older.
Sailboats have been around for thousands of years. Are sailboats bad because
they use an older technology?
73 de Jim, N2EY
N2EY
writes:
>Len Over 21 wrote:
>>
>> In article <20030415200650...@mb-fm.aol.com>, nocw...@aol.com
>(No
>> CW Test) writes:
>>
>> >In article <20030415155041...@mb-fg.aol.com>,
>leno...@aol.com
>> >(Len Over 21) writes:
>
>> >Tell us how it tasted, Len. And why you went back for seconds.....;-)
>>
>> Why should I tell any PLAGIARIST anything?
>
>A PLAGIARIST? What's been plagiarized--your lengthy treatise on your
>amateur radio experiences?
Seems like my description of Len's behavior has been plagiarized, Dave ;-)
>
>> "No CW Test" was a screen name I used some years ago on
>> America Online and for messaging in here. I haven't used that
>> screen name for at least two years. AOL only reserves old
>> screen names for six months. After six months anyone can
>> use it.
>
>It looks like someone is using it.
"Use it or lose it"!
>
>> You've used it here without any respect whatsoever, trying to
>> ape the original screen name user. No supplementary ID at
>> all. Just blatant COPYING of what another has done. In the
>> media that is PLAGIARISM, boy.
>
>I've never heard of a case where three words run together constituted
>plagiarism. It looks more like an exerpt from some of your work.
>What's with the "boy" stuff? How do you know that the current user of
>the screen name isn't older than you? If he happens to be black, he
>might think about kicking your tired, old, white butt.
Dave, how do you know that the user is a male? Could be a woman. I don't recall
any mention of gender, age or ethnicity. Not that any of those things really
matter.
>
>> You are without honor, without respect for acts of plagiarism.
>
>I'm not certain about the honor portion but the guy does have a great
>sense of humor.
Guy?
>
>> >Back in my early days with the Rural Electrification Authority down in New
>> >Mexico, I had the job of bringing electricity to some of the larger Navajo
>> >outhouses and privies. They said it was the first time anyone had wired a
>> >head for a reservation.....
>>
>> You are also a racial bigot. No respect earned there, either.
>
>You've just used the term "boy" toward someone and you call him a racial
>bigot over the above joke?
Typical "do as I say, not as I do" Len behavior.
>I'd love to know where you find the bigotry
>in the joke. Nothing demeaning at all was said about American Indians.
>Privies aren't a racial stereotype of the North American Indian. We
>have plenty of 'em in this state but we're a little shy of North
>American Indians. Use of the names of North American Indians isn't an
>indication of racial bigotry. The term "reservation" isn't an indicator
>or racial bigotry. I'll mark this down as yet another in a long line of
>baseless rants posted by you.
>
>> If you wish to audition for the Comedy Store doing stand-up acts,
>> I can tell Mitzi Shore you are coming. Neither she nor the
>> audience cares for plagiarists who copy others' material.
>
>They never booked Milton Berle? How did you come to be in the know
>about what Mitzi Shore cares for?
>
Doesn't anyone think it's odd that Len attacked someone who has not opposed his
views on code testing?
73 de Jim, N2EY
Brian
> Brian wrote:
> >
> > Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3E9DDC6D...@earthlink.net>...
> > > Len Over 21 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> > > > (Vshah101) writes:
> .
> > > >
> > > > >I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
> > > > >When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
> > > > >those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
> > > >
> > > > Those uptighters ought to inform the public that they think
> > > > US ham radio is all about "working DX on HF with CW."
> > >
> > > I've been informing the public that YOU believe that amateur radio is
> > > all about working DX on HF with CW. A number of them want to know what
> > > DX is, what HF is and what CW is. When I told some hams what you
> > > believe, they all wondered who Leonard H. Anderson is.
> > >
> > > Dave K8MN
> >
> > And who Heil/K8MN is.
>
> That'd be silly. The hams hereabouts all know who I am.
You said, "the public." Now you say the local hams all know you. Which is it?
> > I told them that you showed up in my logs a couple of times, but I was
> > working so many at the time that I realy couldn't recall.
>
> Was that during your alleged DXpedition to Somalia, Brian?
>
> Dave K8MN
Dave, I just checked my Somali logs again, and you're still not in them. Sorry.
Vshah101
>>Secondly, Dee has came up with several reasons why many EEs don't homebrew.
>>Seems like endorsing that EEs should not homebrew.
>>
>Only to you. Dee and I were explaining, not advocating.
Listing several reasons why is advocating.
--------------------------------------------
By the way, I counted calories today. I ate <a little over> 2,600 calories
today.
With this many calories, how could I say I "counted" calories?
Easy - at the end of the day, I noted what I ate, and "counted" it by adding up
the number of calories each food contains. It came out to be over 2,600.
No buffet today. (Otherwise, how could I calculate the number of calories I
ate?)
Yes, I did the math right. No, I'm not overweight (Nor am I very tall to be
able to eat that much).
I was just "explaining". I do not advocate that one do the same.
--------------------------------------------
Tomorrow I'll have a HAM and cheese sandwich.
Dave Heil
>
> Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3E9E28D1...@earthlink.net>...
> > Brian wrote:
> > >
> > > Dave Heil <k8...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3E9DDC6D...@earthlink.net>...
> > > > Len Over 21 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In article <20030415210105...@mb-cv.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> > > > > (Vshah101) writes:
> > .
> > > > >
> > > > > >I meant having the test as a requirement is embarrassing to the hobby.
> > > > > >When ads for Hamfests have Morse code keyers in it, and a non-Ham asks what
> > > > > >those are, it does not look good for Ham radio.
> > > > >
> > > > > Those uptighters ought to inform the public that they think
> > > > > US ham radio is all about "working DX on HF with CW."
> > > >
> > > > I've been informing the public that YOU believe that amateur radio is
> > > > all about working DX on HF with CW. A number of them want to know what
> > > > DX is, what HF is and what CW is. When I told some hams what you
> > > > believe, they all wondered who Leonard H. Anderson is.
> > > And who Heil/K8MN is.
> >
> > That'd be silly. The hams hereabouts all know who I am.
>
> You said, "the public." Now you say the local hams all know you. Which is it?
You don't read well.
> > > I told them that you showed up in my logs a couple of times, but I was
> > > working so many at the time that I realy couldn't recall.
> >
> > Was that during your alleged DXpedition to Somalia, Brian?
> Dave, I just checked my Somali logs again, and you're still not in them. Sorry.
I don't even know that they exist, Brian. If they do, you have no proof
that you were given permission to operate. Finally, I have it confirmed
on multiple bands. Sorry.
Dave K8MN
Len Over 21
writes:
>There it is. Google knows.
>
>Love your "I have a patent and you don't" routine, Leonard. You're a
>class act.
>
>Dave K8MN
No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
Steve Robeson K4YZ
>Date: 4/17/2003 10:13 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030417231327...@mb-m02.aol.com>
>By the way, I counted calories today. I ate 2,600 calories
Glad to hear it! Keep it up! As long as people keep doing this, I am
assured a job!
>Yes, I did the math right. No, I'm not overweight...(SNIP)
You're on your way, Vipul.
>Tomorrow I'll have a HAM and cheese sandwich.
PNP or NPN...?!?!
73
Steve, K4YZ
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>From (N2EY)
>
>>>Secondly, Dee has came up with several reasons why many EEs don't homebrew.
>>>Seems like endorsing that EEs should not homebrew.
>>>
>>Only to you. Dee and I were explaining, not advocating.
>
>Listing several reasons why is advocating.
Not at all. I think it would be great if more hams homebrewed and experimented.
But there are reasons why most hams don't.
btw, building a kit is not homebrewing. Neither is converting surplus or fixing
up older equipment. I have never claimed that any of my kit, surplus or
restored rigs were homebrewed.
>
>--------------------------------------------
>By the way, I counted calories today. I ate <a little over> 2,600 calories
>today.
That's about right if your size and level of physical activity requires that
much. For most people, that's simply too many calories.
>With this many calories, how could I say I "counted" calories?
You did both - ate and counted.
>
>Easy - at the end of the day, I noted what I ate, and "counted" it by adding
>up
>the number of calories each food contains. It came out to be over 2,600.
And how much of that did you burn off with physical activity?
>
>No buffet today. (Otherwise, how could I calculate the number of calories I
>ate?)
>
>Yes, I did the math right. No, I'm not overweight (Nor am I very tall to be
>able to eat that much).
>
>I was just "explaining". I do not advocate that one do the same.
Exactly.
Note that if you keep eating that much, and don't burn it off with physical
activity, you'll get fatter and fatter. Which has serious health consequences.
>--------------------------------------------
>
>Tomorrow I'll have a HAM and cheese sandwich.
>
SMT or through-hole?
N2EY
(Vshah101) writes:
>From K4YZ:
>
>>I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>>forget about it forever" situation.
>
>Thats how the EE field /IT phenom works in this country. I cannot go back in
>time and get that IT job that I don't like (I like EE stuff).
Live and learn. Next time an IT job comes up, you may change your mind.
>
>>But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
>
>Those Hams chose Morse code, because the hobby pressures them to do so.
Not at all. We chose it because we like it. Lots of fun.
Last night I had three QSOs on 80 meter CW. One DX (S58A, pounding in at 8:30
pm local) and two ragchews with amateurs in RI and MI. Great fun.
>Outside
>of Ham radio, Morse code is not useful.
Incorrect.
Outside of amateur radio, Morse code is not very useful. Inside amateur radio,
Morse code is very useful.
73 de Jim, N2EY
>
Mike Coslo
Dave Heil wrote:
> I didn't see a claim that contesting was the only way to find out.
You're correct, Dave. I made no such claim
> I didn't see a claim that it requires a contest for that to happen.
> They do provide an excuse for it to happen, much like a hamfest provides
> an opportunity for hams to get together, swap yarns, pick through junk
> and eat generally bad food.
Once again correct, Dave
> Our ARES group participates in mock prison riots. We haven't figured
> out how to arrange a real prison riot. That and we no longer have an
> operational prison in the area.
There you go! The only way to practice for emergencies is to practice
for them. The whole practice thing is kind of like say, the "Vomit
Comet" that the astronauts do. they look like they are even having fun
while experiencing weightlessness. How would anyone practice for
anything if the rationale was that you had to experience the real thing,
and not practice. go figure.
> Practice makes perfect.
Right. You have to know if your rig is going to put out a good signal,
and it helps to have some sort of coverage knowledge. How we gonna do
this if we don't practice?
> If you're going to dismiss the value of contesting in honing operating
> skills in such an arrogant manner, it is time for you to seek new
> sources of information for your mental database.
Of course, more knowledge might make it difficult to dismiss it in an
arrogant fashion.
> We haven't figured out how to arrange a real prison riot, a real tornado
> or a real flood for practice purposes. Field Day and drills will have
> to do for most of us. If you'd like to drop by, we can arrange to leave
> you in Wildcat Hollow so the gang can practice looking for a lost
> person. It would be, from your perspective, fairly realistic.
Of course we can't. My guess is that anyone thinking otherwise needs to
educate themselves.
> You always resort to something like this in an effort to dismiss the
> skills of another or to take a shot at the ARRL. You surely do know a
> lot for a guy who isn't involved in amateur radio.
I don't know about you, but I tend to listen to my peers. Maybe to
those who aren't my peers, but only if they present a good argument, and
use the manners their mama should have taught them.
> Not all emergencies happen in the United States. Not all of those which
> do take place in the United States involve local communications. As
> you've told us, real emergencies don't have rules. You use what you
> need or what you have in dealing with an emergency.
As I recall, many of the emergencies in the US use HF also. So they
definitely don't use simply local comms.
> SOME real emergencies involve liaison with local authorities. Some need
> liaison with state or federal authorities. Some don't need liaison with
> any authorities. If you decide to come to participate in our Wildcat
> Hollow lost person scenario, you might as well leave that cellular phone
> at home. They don't work in Wildcat Hollow.
In our area, we rescue people all the time. Not so long ago we rescued
a fellow who was having heart problems on the side of the road. That one
did involve authorities. I've been rescued twice now during the pursuit
of one of my other hobbies (off road Bahaing) This just required some
hams and an FWD and a winch. Several 911 call rescues have been made in
the past year or so. Cell phones are almost not in the picture, because
they are often out of range, or there seems to be a fair amount of "I
don't want to get involved" syndrome among the users.
> Quit pretending that you know all about contesting and amateur radio's
> part in emergency efforts. You don't.
Lack of knowledge has never been a prerequisite for an opinion, has it?
- Mike KB3EIA -
Mike Coslo
> In article <20030416231211...@mb-m18.aol.com>, vsha...@aol.com
> (Vshah101) writes:
>
>>From K4YZ:
>
>>>I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>>>forget about it forever" situation.
>>
>>Thats how the EE field /IT phenom works in this country. I cannot go back in
>>time and get that IT job that I don't like (I like EE stuff).
>
>
> Live and learn. Next time an IT job comes up, you may change your mind.
>
>>>But they DID choose it, and it WAS useful.
>>
>>Those Hams chose Morse code, because the hobby pressures them to do so.
>
>
> Not at all. We chose it because we like it. Lots of fun.
Jim, I felt really pressured to learn the RF safety requirements! ;^)
- Mike KB3EIA -
N2EY
I think you missed some relevant points, Dave. Len's reference to the
"Bear" bomber might lead the unsuspecting to think he was in some sort
of danger from them while in Japan. However:
- The airline distance from Chongjin, North Korea to Tokyo is at least
670
statute miles. The distance from Vladivostok to Tokyo is 663 statute
miles.
(Source: "Esso War Map III, Featuring The Pacific Theater", printed
1944).
- For interesting info on the Tupolev TU-95, and its variants, known
to NATO as
the "Bear", see:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm
which tells us that:
- Development of the TU-95/"Bear" began in June, 1951.
- First flight of the first prototype, November, 1952.
- Production began January, 1956.
- First deployment August, 1957.
- Four turboprop engines driving counterrotating propellers.
"Turboprop" refers
to jet turbine engines driving propellers.
- Len left Japan before any TU-95s were deployed.
>
> Love your "I have a patent and you don't" routine, Leonard.
A US patent granted in 1968 would have expired in 1985. Perhaps a more
timely question would be "who has a current US patent?"
73 de Jim, N2EY
Len Over 21
writes:
Inconsistent. "Ham radio" is supposed to equal "amateur radio"
yet the renowned judge of petty details rules that it is "incorrect."
Morse code cognition MUST be demonstrated to obtain a US
amateur radio license having below-30-MHz privileges. That's
a LEGAL REQUIREMENT and does not fall into the "useful"
category...except to those who would bastardize English
language use for their own narrow-minded little purposes.
Outside of either "ham radio," "amateur radio," or the Archaic
Radiotelegraphy Society, morse code has VERY LITTLE USE.
Vshah101
>>By the way, I counted calories today. I ate 2,600 calories
>
> Glad to hear it! Keep it up! As long as people keep doing this, I am
>assured a job!
It was one of those occasional times.
>I'm not overweight...(SNIP)
>
> You're on your way, Vipul.
No, I'll be fine. I don't normally eat that much. I am in control and I don't
have to worry that it will happen again
>>Tomorrow I'll have a HAM and cheese sandwich.
>
> PNP or NPN...?!?!
I prefer NPN transistors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My watch can get on HF. I know it can get on HF since it says "30 METERS" on
it.
Vshah101
>I think it would be great if more hams homebrewed and experimented.
>But there are reasons why most hams don't.
>
Yes, most Hams like to operate and don't like experimenting so they don't.
Also, the current group of Hams encourages new Hams to learn Morse code above
other skills.
Vshah101
> I can't think of too many things in life that are a "do it once now or
>forget about it forever" situation.
Unfortunately, thats the way the system works.
I may be getting out of the EE field soon and into something that makes more
money, and is a more stable field. I have one thing due at the end of this
month. If I can make that deadline, I will probably stay in EE (even at alot
less money).