Folks, this is really sorry
mor...@erols.com
Folks,
I always understood that in the wiccan reed, there was this little bit
about doing what thou wilt, as long as it harm none? Or have we all
forgotten this little thing. INFIGHTING will get us no where. This is
supposed to be for the discussion of wicca, not bashing, not killing,
not blameing, not having a fit cause someone is going on a divergent
course than everyone else.
If we were able to get together, just have a moot in a pub, (I'll buy
first round in Annapolis Maryland if anyone is game) and get this stuff
over with. There are newbies who look at this group and its really a bad
show.
It makes the american wicca movement look really bad. Please remember
this group is global. (Anyone from the PF here??).
I would rather we talk than scream.
Flame away please.
R/dan
PS. Brightest Blessings all, were supposed to be a family....guess not.
Damon Howarth
I have scanned a great deal of this news group. Those offerings I have
noted seem to be in common with many other groups the delirious rantings of
evil fingered (as opposed to foul mouthed) adolescents. I agree with those
more sedate people suggesting the rep that is being gained from such
infights and obscenity is as damging as anything the new religions did to
us in the past.
I am a lone believer I do not see many others of the faith. I hold the
Goddess within my heart and revel in the fact she has crossed to the New
world.
Please remember all are her children and all should work for the common
weal, not for personal aggrandisment.
Scry/ not scry all the same thing my house has electricity, I don't
necessarily use it to get a weather forecast on the TV. I still pay the
bill, I still have plugs and sockets. I am no less or more an electric
company user. Similarly use of the Power, if you do fine, your bill is just
higher.
Let's all try and bear inmind that Wiccan's the world over are thought of
as New Age Crackpots and "Hippies" this behaviour merely heightens the
view.
Blessed Be!
A daemon is for life, not just Hallowe'en
Linda Yeodal
In article <5lvgf3$k...@neon.airtime.co.uk>, Damon Howarth
<da...@bbird.airtime.co.uk> writes
>I have scanned a great deal of this news group. Those offerings I have
>noted seem to be in common with many other groups the delirious rantings of
>evil fingered (as opposed to foul mouthed) adolescents. I agree with those
>more sedate people suggesting the rep that is being gained from such
>infights and obscenity is as damging as anything the new religions did to
>us in the past.
There is a lot of good discussion on this group. But there are also a
few non-wiccan posters (IMHO mostly religious fundamentalist fanatics)
who are attempting to disrupt the NG by posting foul-mouthed flames and
mis-information. These have to be challenged. otherwise how can newbies
find out what they need to know.
>I am a lone believer I do not see many others of the faith. I hold the
>Goddess within my heart and revel in the fact she has crossed to the New
>world.
>Please remember all are her children and all should work for the common
>weal, not for personal aggrandisment.
> Scry/ not scry all the same thing my house has electricity, I don't
>necessarily use it to get a weather forecast on the TV. I still pay the
>bill, I still have plugs and sockets. I am no less or more an electric
>company user. Similarly use of the Power, if you do fine, your bill is just
>higher.
>Let's all try and bear inmind that Wiccan's the world over are thought of
>as New Age Crackpots and "Hippies" this behaviour merely heightens the
>view.
I can see that you are a true Thatcher's child. If you were old enough
to remember the sixites, you would know that there is nothing wrong with
being either 'New Age' or a 'Hippy'. Their only crime was to challenge
the establishment. BTW, the sixties were a hell of a lot better than
anything that came later (especially the eighties) - so far!
>Blessed Be!
>A daemon is for life, not just Hallowe'en
>
>
--
Linda Yeodal
Xina
Damon Howarth wrote:
> Let's all try and bear inmind that Wiccan's the world over are thought of as New Age Crackpots and "Hippies" this behaviour merely heightens the view.
There is a very good reason for that, Damon. That reason being is that
most do not know the history of their religion, they are more often
times than not as slavishly dogmatic to its "tenets" as any
fundamentalist Christian (three-fold law and the Rede) and that ever
annoying arrogance that all *real* Witches are in fact Wiccan....
We wont even discuss the penchant here across the pond for opportunistic
money makers, penchant for poorly written literature (Llewllyn Published
books) and bad jewelry (not to mention the over marketing for poorly
made ritual clothing and tie dye!) Substance to one's religion, IMHO
should have nothing to do with how many Polly Prettie ritual tools and
'toys' one has spent their hard earned pounds or dollars on!;)
Then there is the cultural theft that seems to go on in this country...I
can cound plenty of Wiccans who think nothing of taking whatever
tradition or ritual that isnt nailed down and appropriating it for their
own use, an example would be "Native American Spirituality". These same
folks are Celtic one week, Egyptian the next, Faery the Next, Norse and
on and on....
Its pretty annoying to those who really are and I for one being Native,
get rather upset at how the traditions are bastardized...but thats my
own personal bent.
> Blessed Be!
> A daemon is for life, not just Hallowe'en
Agreed. Live your beliefs, dont just put them on like a bizzare costume
to scare or impress your friends, loved ones and classmates.
When the religion is a part of you and not just an extention of a drawn
out Renaissance Faire or SCA revel, then there is some real substance to
it.
Em hotep! (In Peace)
Xina
ROMANA
In article <33833F...@nospam.erols.com>, mor...@erols.com says...
Do us all a favor by starting a good thread.
Eterna
Sylvanpath
>There is a very good reason for that, Damon. That reason being is that
>most do not know the history of their religion, they are more often
>times than not as slavishly dogmatic to its "tenets" as any
>fundamentalist Christian (three-fold law and the Rede) and that ever
>annoying arrogance that all *real* Witches are in fact Wiccan....
In my humble opinion...
What I try to remember is that for most of the people on any sort of a
magickal path, they will never take it "seriously." It's similar to a
great number of Christians who only practice their faith while at church.
Deep spirituality is a road that requires dedication, perserverance, and a
need that reaches the depths of your soul. Those that would embark on
such a path are bombarded by a media that promises all our needs will be
met by buying the right products and obtaining a perfect physical body.
There are no elders, no teachers in the modern machine culture. Our
emphasis has been placed on getting ahead in the corporate world, rather
than living in balance with the natural one. People are hungry for
answers and spiritual peace. When they have nowhere else to turn, they'll
turn to every "Learn Native American Shamanism In a Weekend!" course
that's offered and buy every mass-produced athame that they're told they
need. Lllewellyn Publications trains more Wiccans than those that can
claim Hereditary Traditions.
We must remember that we live in a culture that is often at odds with our
beliefs. I'm confronted almost daily by those that condemn all witches as
evil. To thrive in a corporate setting (which is currently necessary for
my life-path) I have to keep my beliefs "in the broom closet," so to
speak. Even among those of us who live a magickal and/or earth-oriented
lifestyle, there is so much conflict that the seekers I talk to are
confused and don't know where to turn.
Those of us who have the ability and desire must start to set aside our
differences and begin to teach and lead. We need to create a culture
where those who are just starting their path can be protected while they
grow. Even in the Wild, cubs stay within the den before they are strong
enough to wander out into the world. Yet we expect new practitioners to
survive a culture that is as threatening to magickal beliefs as the Wild
is to new born forest dweller. We don't need to set aside our
individuality; I will never be Gardenarian and I doubt a Gardenarian
would feel comfortable without the rigid hierarchy of their chosen path.
But we need to realize that, regardless of our chosen path or magickal
heritage, we are a magickal family. And those of us who can, need to
begin to show how that is done.
Bright blessings!
Winter
"If only we learned to listen, what secrets would the winds whisper...
What tales would the stones have to tell..."
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7654
Xina
Gwynne ni Brid wrote:
Xina wrote:
> >There is a very good reason for that, Damon. That reason being is that most do not know the history of their religion,
>
> post about how "ancient and old" Wicca is! I usually say it's both
> young AND old. It incorporates some of the older religions but the
> rest is only just been created (such as the 'Rede).
Wouldnt it just be nice if we could define who we ourselves are by
ourselves and for ourselves WITHOUT some bloody do-gooder telling us we
"should" do this and we "should-not" do that? Seems to damned much like
Xianity just repackaged for greater consumer appeal IMHO.
>
> >they are more often
> >times than not as slavishly dogmatic to its "tenets" as any
> >fundamentalist Christian (three-fold law and the Rede)
>
> Sometimes I am *so* glad that people who converse on the NG's usually
> don't meet, 'cause I'd probably grab them and shake them until they
> got the hint! The 'Rede is merely a guideline for living, nothing
> more.
Yes so is the 10 Commandments, and the 42 laws of Ma'at, the Code of
Hamaurabi, the Tao, hell even the new expanded version of the Betty
Crocker cookbook! ;)
And the Threefold Law, in my opinion, doesn't work like the way
> most people seem to see it as! It isn't Divine retribution for being
> "bad," it's just nature responding naturally to the energy you send
> out.
Oh now, Gwynne! Yer gonna blow the whole imagery of the Great Goddess
sitting up there with her abbacus and her account ledger keeping track
of everyone and everything! :PP
And as for it being "three-fold"? I'm not too sure on that...
> But I *really* cringe when people start preaching toe Wiccan tenants
> to NON-Wiccans as if they should follow the same belief system Wiccans
> do!!
Well, there are fundamentalists in EVERY religion, Wicca is definitely
NO exception to that rule! Frankly Im surprised more Wiccans dont get
beaten soundly for the disgusting and holier than thou attitudes that
they try to push off on others who arent Wiccan. Get it, there are no
converts to that religion, kids! Dont do to others what you dont want
done to you by some JW!
>
> >and that ever
> >annoying arrogance that all *real* Witches are in fact Wiccan....
>
> *nod* I usually see myself as a Witch who follows the basic tenants
> of Wicca. I've found myself less and less apt to describing myself as
> a Wiccan because of the "fluffy-bunny" connotations to it.
I have always said that the word "wicca" far from any lovely linguistics
that the noveau scholars have attached to it, has become, what the
advertising industry calls a "Weasel Word". Words that imply a promise
of power, love, etc etc without the guarantee. Wicca is a far less
upsetting word than the dreaded WITCH word. And in a feeble attempt to
remain somewhat in the closet with the essentially clueless and shall we
say less open minded, the practioners of the "Old" religion, use the
word "Wicca" since it is least likely to produce the same results in
these same fundamentalists than say, rubbing your cats fur backwards as
using the WITCH word!
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >Then there is the cultural theft (snipped about the 'religion-of-the- month club's' cirriculum)
>
> YES! I don't understand how people can mix-and-match Traditions like
> that and find the end result meaningful! I am always *very* reluctant
> of mixing other Traditions in my work...it always struck me as being
> disrespectful of the Tradition I'm borrowing from.
That is the biggest gripe of many people of the Traditions and religions
that these folks borrow from. There is nothign wrong with being
ecclectic, there is nothing wrong with being a anal retentive
traditionalist purist (which is what I am) but there is DEFINITELY
something wrong with taking a Lakota ceremony, throw in some Golden Dawn
invocations....and then calling it a 'Native Ceremony' at Pagan Spirit
Gathering that people paid quite a bit of money to go to. That IMHO is
theft, it is wrong, and I for one know that if it happens within my
vicinity they are going to be listening to alot of verbal beratement and
serious chastisement for such a thing.
I've always felt
> that the bastardizing of Traditions by stirring them all into one mass
> lump as being inevitably detrimental for *everyone* because people
> will forget what made each seperate Tradition *special*. It just
> becomes McTrad.
>
> I'm not saying we should never be creative in our creation of rituals,
> or that the blending of Traditions is *always* a bad thing (my own
> Tradition is a blend of Irish Witta and Faerie), but I feel there
> should be more thought and care in the blending so that one Tradition
> doesn't lose what made it special.
I agree, but there again, that is for your own personal practice and not
being published in a Llewllyn tome, nor charged admission for etc.
>
> >Its pretty annoying to those who really are and I for one being Native,
> >get rather upset at how the traditions are bastardized...but thats my
> >own personal bent.
>
> Apparantly a bent in which I (verbosely ;) agreed with! :)
Thank you! I can certainly appreciate that. :)
>
> >Agreed. Live your beliefs, dont just put them on like a bizzare costume
> >to scare or impress your friends, loved ones and classmates.
> >
> >When the religion is a part of you and not just an extention of a drawn
> >out Renaissance Faire or SCA revel, then there is some real substance to
> >it.
>
> If only more people thought that way...<sigh>
Well, its the job of the ones that have been around awhile to inform the
newbies that No, most likely a myestrious person is not likely to walk
up to them and say "Youre the one we've been waiting for!" and touting
them the most powerful witch since Merlin and Morganna! <g> (gee, does
that sound like anyone we know on this NG?!) <BG>
>
> BTW -- Xina, I have *no* idea if you remember me, but we were
> corresponding *quite* a while ago (October?)...I was meaning to reply
> but I became ill and then after I thought it might be a little late to
> reply to the letter you sent me (the aftermath of the Llewellyn
> debate)! I would really like to get to know you! If you're intrested
> in corresponding, drop me a note, I'd love to hear from you!
Well Im sorry for the delay and hope that you are feeling better. Im
pretty much like you see, I stir shit online, say something that gets
people tweaked and stand back and throw some more gasoline and plastique
onto the fire to see what happens! ;) Please feel free to write to me
via email, (to those who send commercial SPAM, I will personally send a
Mongul hoarde to your house shoot arrows into your HD and your modem, so
think twice!) ;)
>
> My 2 cents... :)
Take care!
Xina
Gwynne ni Brid
Also cc'd to Xina
I wanted to post my response to one of the comments you made, hope you
don't mind... ;)
On Sat, 24 May 1997 20:38:52 -0500, Xina <xi...@netins.net> wrote:
>> *nod* I usually see myself as a Witch who follows the basic tenants
>> of Wicca. I've found myself less and less apt to describing myself as
>> a Wiccan because of the "fluffy-bunny" connotations to it.
>
>I have always said that the word "wicca" far from any lovely linguistics
>that the noveau scholars have attached to it, has become, what the
>advertising industry calls a "Weasel Word". Words that imply a promise
>of power, love, etc etc without the guarantee. Wicca is a far less
>upsetting word than the dreaded WITCH word. And in a feeble attempt to
>remain somewhat in the closet with the essentially clueless and shall we
>say less open minded, the practioners of the "Old" religion, use the
>word "Wicca" since it is least likely to produce the same results in
>these same fundamentalists than say, rubbing your cats fur backwards as
>using the WITCH word!
That made me remember something that happened to me not too long ago,
and I'm curious if other people have run into the same thing.
I was having Christmas dinner with my family when the topic turned to
"things people call themselves," specifically, my little sister was
equating the word "feminist" with the word "homosexual" (ie. all
feminists are homosexual...my l'il sis is homophobic, she learned it
from my mom). I brought up the fact that the same thing happens with
other terms. Then I called myself a Witch...up until this time I had
only ever called myself a Wiccan in front of my family.
My l'il sister blew a gasket. "Don't call yourself such a horrible
thing!" she screamed. "People will think you're a Satanist!!"
"Call yourself a Wiccan. People know that *Wiccans* aren't
Satanists!"
Now, personally I have *no* problem with the word Witch. I *am* one!
I'm proud of it! I call myself a Witch. But I was curious if other
people have had a reaction like this when they called themselves a
Witch? Or do you think the word "Witch" be dumped because of all the
bad press? Or do you think we should reclaim the word "Witch" and to
hell with what others think?
Gwynne ni Brid
************************************************************************************************
Johnson: “Are you religious?”
Fletch: “I believe in a God who doesn’t require heavy financing.”
“Fletch Lives”
“Gum Till Do Cheum, As Gach Cearn, Fo Rionnag-iuil an Dachaidh!” (May
your steps return from all corners of the globe, under the guidance of
the star, that points to home!)
*************************************************************************************************
A Hawke on the Wing
mor...@erols.com writes:
>I always understood that in the wiccan reed, there was this little bit
>about doing what thou wilt, as long as it harm none? Or have we all
>forgotten this little thing. INFIGHTING will get us no where. This is
Not all Wiccans follow the Rede. Not all witches follow the Rede.
Moralizing about it will get you pretty much nowhere.
>supposed to be for the discussion of wicca, not bashing, not killing,
>not blameing, not having a fit cause someone is going on a divergent
>course than everyone else.
THis is also Usenet. Welcome to chaos. You get all kinds here, not all
of which are into the calm rational discussion. [And noone has killed
anyone else, unless you're talking about killfiling, which is nothing
more than a filter that gets rid of what you don't want to see. Might I
suggest you try to use one?]
>If we were able to get together, just have a moot in a pub, (I'll buy
>first round in Annapolis Maryland if anyone is game) and get this stuff
>over with. There are newbies who look at this group and its really a bad
>show.
Again, the this is the way the world works. You're not sheltered any
more here than you would be in the real world. You learn to thinken your
hide if you're sensitive, and bite your tongue sometimes until it
bleeds. That's the way it goes.
>It makes the american wicca movement look really bad. Please remember
>this group is global. (Anyone from the PF here??).
>I would rather we talk than screa
Why would it do that? Half the posters that you're complaing about are
in England. Just because part of the arguments are carried on by
AMericans doesn't mean they are wholly to blame. Other countries are no
better and no worse than America here. I think you need to get a little
thicker skin.
>Flame away please.
You definately need to get a thicker skin and take off the rosey pink
glasses.
>PS. Brightest Blessings all, were supposed to be a family....guess not.
Hell no, we're not. I _choose_ who my family is. Your being Wiccan
doesn't mean I'm going to acknowledge you as a part of my family. You
have to earn that position, sweetie. This isn't some light and fluffy
religion, and it sure isn't what most people are trying to make it these
days. I may fight for your right to have the religion you choose and to
practice what is right for you, but that does not make you family.
Hawke - tired of the mollycoddling that goes on in wicca.
*******************************************************************************
And floating somewhere between pain and tears, you're there between my love
and fear, where noone hears, and I've got nothing, no strength left to watch
you fall, nothing left at all.....When you flow through me, surround me and
light the dark, brand me and leave your mark, my aching heart, is breaking
again.
-Ofra Haza, "My Aching Heart"
ali...@links.magenta.com wind...@asylum.sf.ca.us
*******************************************************************************
Donal
mor...@erols.com wrote:
> If we were able to get together, just have a moot in a pub, (I'll buy
> first round in Annapolis Maryland if anyone is game) and get this stuff
> over with. There are newbies who look at this group and its really a bad
> show.
This is part of the reason why I started the PNO (Pagans' Night Out).
Now, in addition to the original PNO here in Houston (5 years now, every
month!) there are new PNOs in Austin, San Antonio, Dallas and I even got
mail from someone starting one in Oz (forget exactly where).
PNO is a social gathering, not really for 'talking shop'. It brings al
lthe different trads in the area together over a pint and makes sure
that, when we get back to the keyboards, we remember that the person
behind the other handle is also a friend.
Blessed Be
BTW, for info on the Houston PNO go to http://www.brewich.com/pno.html
Don Addison & Darla McClure
On Sun, 25 May 1997 23:13:30 -0400, "rem...@mindspring.com"
<rem...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Gwynne ni Brid wrote:
>
>> My l'il sister blew a gasket. "Don't call yourself such a horrible
>> thing!" she screamed. "People will think you're a Satanist!!"
>> "Call yourself a Wiccan. People know that *Wiccans* aren't
>> Satanists!"
>
> Heh heh heh. Tell that to some of my fundamentalist colleagues.
>They'll be very reassured. :-)
>
>> Now, personally I have *no* problem with the word Witch. I *am* one!
>> I'm proud of it! I call myself a Witch. But I was curious if other
>> people have had a reaction like this when they called themselves a
>> Witch? Or do you think the word "Witch" be dumped because of all the
>> bad press? Or do you think we should reclaim the word "Witch" and to
>> hell with what others think?
>
> I too am proud to say I'm a witch (or mage; witch is just so...
>feminine) though at this point, my religion and magical practition are
>not things I make public for fear of retribution. You can laugh, but
>when you live in the Good Ol' Bible Belt in North Carolina, you learn
>what to say and not say if you want to live peacefully. I think the
>words are both up for use, but let's make sure we don't use them
>interchangeably - most Wiccans are witches, but not all witches
>are Wiccans.
>
> KnowhutImean?!
> RM
Especially in the South. I'm down the road aways in SC. So pagan
friendly I assure you. We mind our own business and do not readily
talk about our religion.
Eris
**************************************************************
Reply to Myrrdrin & Eris at myrr...@cyberjunkie.com
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/3056
One man's theology is another's belly laugh - Robert Heinlein
**************************************************************
William Edward Woody
Normally I agree with Xina's posts wholeheartedly, but in this case,
I have to register my protest...
Xina <xi...@netins.net> wrote:
> > Sometimes I am *so* glad that people who converse on the NG's usually
> > don't meet, 'cause I'd probably grab them and shake them until they
> > got the hint! The 'Rede is merely a guideline for living, nothing
> > more.
>
> Yes so is the 10 Commandments, and the 42 laws of Ma'at, the Code of
> Hamaurabi, the Tao, hell even the new expanded version of the Betty
> Crocker cookbook! ;)
The Betty Crocker Cookbook? A "guideline?"
HERACY!!!!!
I know for myself personally if I hadn't the Power of the Word of
Betty Crocker, I would NEVER have reached the Understanding of the
Egg, the Power of Flour, nor would I have reached the size nor
be as well rounded as I currently am!
- Bill
*grin* Sorry, couldn't help it. I'll go away now...
--
William Edward Woody | In Phase Consulting
wo...@alumni.caltech.edu | Macintosh & Microsoft Windows
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~woody | http://www.znd.net/inphase
Gwynne ni Brid
> I think the
>words are both up for use, but let's make sure we don't use them
>interchangeably - most Wiccans are witches, but not all witches
>are Wiccans.
>
> KnowhutImean?!
I agree. I usually call myself (as I have for a few years now) a
Witch. I'm Wiccan in as much as I follow the basic philosophy of
Wicca. But I know what you mean about not using the words
interchangably...call a fundamentalist Christian a Catholic sometime
and watch the fur fly! ;)
stephen tweed
In article <woody-27059...@192.0.2.1>, William Edward Woody
<wo...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes
>The Betty Crocker Cookbook? A "guideline?"
>
>HERACY!!!!!
>
>I know for myself personally if I hadn't the Power of the Word of
>Betty Crocker, I would NEVER have reached the Understanding of the
>Egg, the Power of Flour, nor would I have reached the size nor
>be as well rounded as I currently am!
>
> - Bill
>
>*grin* Sorry, couldn't help it. I'll go away now...
>
I think i may just start a new book "The collected pearls of wisdom of
mr Scratch". Of course it goes without saying that the first autographed
copy will have to go to the rev andre schlesinger. What do you think?
<snigger> Sorry, couldn`t help it either bill.
?
\*/
/-\
@-@
--oOo-(_)-oOo--
the greenpen free spirit
net citizen
email ste...@greenpen.demon.co.uk
Have you forgotten yet?....
Look up, and swear by the green of the spring that you`ll never forget.
Siegfried Sassoon
March 1919
Grovekeeper
rem...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Gwynne ni Brid wrote:
>
> > My l'il sister blew a gasket. "Don't call yourself such a horrible
> > thing!" she screamed. "People will think you're a Satanist!!"
> > "Call yourself a Wiccan. People know that *Wiccans* aren't
> > Satanists!"
>
> Heh heh heh. Tell that to some of my fundamentalist
> colleagues.
> They'll be very reassured. :-)
>
> > Now, personally I have *no* problem with the word Witch. I *am*
> one!
> > I'm proud of it! I call myself a Witch. But I was curious if other
>
> > people have had a reaction like this when they called themselves a
> > Witch? Or do you think the word "Witch" be dumped because of all
> the
> > bad press? Or do you think we should reclaim the word "Witch" and
> to
> > hell with what others think?
>
That's an excellent question to pose. The word witch has been filled
with negative connotations ever since the Burning Times. After reading
your post, I took some time to think, and I decided that it would be
best to use the word regardless. This is, of course, only my opinion,
but instead of running from the word because of negativity, i believe we
should all work together to show the world what a witch really is. if we
all work together, in time we can eliminate the steretypes. Yes, maybe
this is just the product of an optimistic mind, but I hold with the
transednentalist theory that all men are inherently good.
Felis Uncia
[posted with cc]
On 26 May 1997, SkyeDragyn wrote:
> I don't think that the word Witch should be forgotten. That's
> rediculous(sp). Wiccans and Witches can be one in the same, or two
> different things. It's personal preferrence. Not all Wiccan are
> Witches so the word is needed. I'm proud to be a Witch, and I call
> myself the two words interchangeably. It's time to set people straight.
It most certainly is time to set people straight. You may feel free to
use either "Witch" or "Wiccan" when you are referring to yourself, but you
can NOT use them interchangeably in a more general application without
being patently incorrect.
Witch does not equal Wiccan. SOME Witches are Wiccans. Some Wiccans are
Witches. Both words may apply to some of the same individuals, but they
CANNOT be used interchangeably -- they simply aren't the same thing.
> Starfire
-K.Delf
-----------=Kerry Delf=-------------=<k...@jersey.uoregon.edu>=-----------
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"I fear sometimes that I have the ambition of a genius, the eye and ear
of a genius, and the talent of a chimneysweep. I go down into the filthy
world, I come up black, I scatter the ashes and cinders of my research
onto white papers, but what have I got? Paper with black marks all over
it." --Orson Scott Card's fictional Honore de Balzac
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EMAILING RESPONSES TO MY USENET POSTS CONSTITUTES PERMISSION TO POST THEM
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SkyeDragyn
What I wrote on May 26th (SkyeDragyn)
>> Wiccans and Witches can be one in the same, or two
>> different things. It's personal preferrence. Not all Wiccan are
>> Witches so the word is needed.
What K.Delf wrote:
>Witch does not equal Wiccan. SOME Witches are Wiccans. Some Wiccans
>are Witches. Both words may apply to some of the same individuals, but
they
>CANNOT be used interchangeably -- they simply aren't the same thing.
I totally agree with you, and that's what I said. I simply said that I
PERSONALLY use them interchangeably--- not that everyone should....
David Bowden
Xina <xi...@netins.net> wrote:
>That is the biggest gripe of many people of the Traditions and religions
>that these folks borrow from. There is nothign wrong with being
>ecclectic, there is nothing wrong with being a anal retentive
>traditionalist purist (which is what I am) but there is DEFINITELY
>something wrong with taking a Lakota ceremony, throw in some Golden Dawn
>invocations....and then calling it a 'Native Ceremony' at Pagan Spirit
>Gathering that people paid quite a bit of money to go to.
It has been labled cultural genocide for those not Native to adapt
Native American ceremonies for their own usage.
Native's directing these little adaptions are called sellout's and
plastic medicine men.
There is no way in the hell that these adaptations are authenic Native
ceremonial practices. Those that engage in such are only fooling
themselves.
Anyone wishing to study this problem from a native perspective can
feel free to e-mail me in private and I will direct them to any number
of url's directly associated with information on this issue.
David Bowden
That IMHO is
>theft, it is wrong, and I for one know that if it happens within my
>vicinity they are going to be listening to alot of verbal beratement and
>serious chastisement for such a thing.
>>
>> >Its pretty annoying to those who really are and I for one being Native,
>> >get rather upset at how the traditions are bastardized...but thats my
>> >own personal bent.
Not only your own personal bent but a great number of others as well.
Myself included.
>>
>> Apparantly a bent in which I (verbosely ;) agreed with! :)
>Take care!
>Xina
Ian Brickwood
In article <33833F...@nospam.erols.com>, mor...@erols.com writes
>It makes the american wicca movement look really bad. Please remember
>this group is global. (Anyone from the PF here??).
>Flame away please.
>R/dan
at last something that isnt an argument.
Im here in UK and a PF member if were talking about the same PF.
Just as a thought, I have always thought that Wicca means Wise one.
The "Witch" part being a creation of the Church as an excuse for killing
and stealing from those who held the knowledge of healing, scrying etc.
I must admit to loveing the comment about Wicca being both old and
new.
--
Greybeard
Merry Meet an Merry Part
an Merry Meet Agin