wgert and justin against Scientology!
Rob Carr
I'm glad justin's back. He and wgert are very useful.
See, now I tell friends that, if they want to find out what Scientology
is like, they should just go to deja news and read through some messages
about Scientology written by wgert and justin. The response is amazingly
consistent. People decide, just based on the messages of these two
people, that there's something very suspicious about Scientology.
The best part is when you show them the concept of "fair gaming." They
start laughing! "That's exactly what wgert and justin do!"
I would dare say that justin and wgert have done quite a bit of work for
a.r.s. If you want to convince someone that they should stay away from
CoS, then all you have to do is show them the posts by justin and wgert.
Just using justin alone, I turned one potential Scientologist away from
the group. I'd have done more, but there really aren't that many
Scientologists and Scientology recruits out there. Whether they like it
or not, Scientology is a dying religion.
I'm up to 30 people now who have become 1.1s where they may have been
inclined to either say "whatever" or "maybe some day I might be
interested."
Whatever Bob Minton is paying justin and wgert, it simply isn't enough.
Rob
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Alec
Rob Carr wrote in message <884961080...@dejanews.com>...
>I'm glad justin's back. He and wgert are very useful.
[...] snip
>I would dare say that justin and wgert have done quite a bit of work for
>a.r.s. If you want to convince someone that they should stay away from
>CoS, then all you have to do is show them the posts by justin and wgert.
>
>Just using justin alone, I turned one potential Scientologist away from
>the group. I'd have done more, but there really aren't that many
>Scientologists and Scientology recruits out there. Whether they like it
>or not, Scientology is a dying religion.
>
>I'm up to 30 people now who have become 1.1s where they may have been
>inclined to either say "whatever" or "maybe some day I might be
>interested."
>
>Whatever Bob Minton is paying justin and wgert, it simply isn't enough.
>
>Rob
Critics truly owe a debt of gratitude to Justin and Gertrude.
---Alec
gerry armstrong
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:39:22 -0600, rober...@msn.com (Rob Carr)
wrote:
>I'm glad justin's back. He and wgert are very useful.
>
>See, now I tell friends that, if they want to find out what Scientology
>is like, they should just go to deja news and read through some messages
>about Scientology written by wgert and justin. The response is amazingly
>consistent. People decide, just based on the messages of these two
>people, that there's something very suspicious about Scientology.
>
>The best part is when you show them the concept of "fair gaming." They
>start laughing! "That's exactly what wgert and justin do!"
>
>I would dare say that justin and wgert have done quite a bit of work for
>a.r.s. If you want to convince someone that they should stay away from
>CoS, then all you have to do is show them the posts by justin and wgert.
>
>Just using justin alone, I turned one potential Scientologist away from
>the group. I'd have done more, but there really aren't that many
>Scientologists and Scientology recruits out there. Whether they like it
>or not, Scientology is a dying religion.
>
>I'm up to 30 people now who have become 1.1s where they may have been
>inclined to either say "whatever" or "maybe some day I might be
>interested."
>
>Whatever Bob Minton is paying justin and wgert, it simply isn't enough.
>
>Rob
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
What Justin and WGert and DM are trying to do is exactly what they're
doing. There is no deception involved.
As you note anyone who reads Justin or Gert gets turned off and wants
nothing to do with the cult these guys represent. DM does the same
thing. The more people listen to this guy, read his words, hear what
his henchman are saying for him, the more people are turned off and
want to have nothing more to do with the cult.
And that, as mad as it sounds, is exactly what DM wants. He would love
to be able to get every SO member and every Scientologist to leave his
organization and his "church." He kills many birds:
Nobody left to report on what he does.
End of endless threats of reformation, revolution, mutiny or coup.
The whole pile of plunder is his.
No longer has to pretend to believe in the tech.
No longer has to pretend to get audited.
Has anyone else heard recently of an observable increase in cult
departures? Has anyone else been able to determine that the most
freqently stated cause for these increasing departures is DM acting
and issuing orders that sound suspiciously like Justin and Gert?
Gerry
Keith Henson
gerry armstrong (arms...@ntonline.com) wrote:
snip
: What Justin and WGert and DM are trying to do is exactly what they're
: doing. There is no deception involved.
: As you note anyone who reads Justin or Gert gets turned off and wants
: nothing to do with the cult these guys represent. DM does the same
: thing. The more people listen to this guy, read his words, hear what
: his henchman are saying for him, the more people are turned off and
: want to have nothing more to do with the cult.
: And that, as mad as it sounds,
Not mad at all.
is exactly what DM wants. He would love
: to be able to get every SO member and every Scientologist to leave his
: organization and his "church." He kills many birds:
: Nobody left to report on what he does.
: End of endless threats of reformation, revolution, mutiny or coup.
: The whole pile of plunder is his.
: No longer has to pretend to believe in the tech.
: No longer has to pretend to get audited.
: Has anyone else heard recently of an observable increase in cult
: departures? Has anyone else been able to determine that the most
: freqently stated cause for these increasing departures is DM acting
: and issuing orders that sound suspiciously like Justin and Gert?
Garry, your thoughts on this make perfict sense--and they might well
be part of the motivation of (*). I will keep this model in mind,
though at present I still think DM is a true believer in Hubbard's
crafty madness. Keith Henson
wgert
There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
1. He was involved himself in a scheme which was aimed at both seizing
Church assets and total church control.
He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
The whole scheme involved money -- several million dollars. To help
forward that scheme, he attempted to recruit others who would forward
allegations damaging to the Church.
That there was no substance behind his scheme became rather evident
when he was asked "How does one prove those allegations". His simple
response and strategy was: "You don't have to prove a god damn thing!
You don't have to prove ****! You just allege it!"
Having thus lost all credibility as a so-called "informer" against the
Church, Armstrong's behaviour grew more bizarre.
2. Then there was a campaign to destroy all money in the world. For
that occasion he had himself photographed naked, and embracing a
globe.
3. Then there was a letter to Saddam Hussein, offering himself up to
end the war. Here's an excerpt:
"The writer of this letter hereby volunteers to replace all your
hostages... My only claim to fame my be that I am the least known
philosopher in America... If our side failed to perform any part of
the agreement reached with you I would be executed. I would be
available for torturde if you desired... such and execution might
provide sufficient satisfaction to make war uncessary. I have
plenty of lawyers to work out the details."
4. A court recently ordered him to pay $650,000 for his violations.
After violating a further court order, he was held in contempt of
court and sentenced to jail.
To avoid the jail, he fled the U.S. and is now in Canada.
wgert
>What Justin and WGert and DM are trying to do is exactly what they're
>doing. There is no deception involved.
>As you note anyone who reads Justin or Gert gets turned off and wants
>nothing to do with the cult these guys represent. DM does the same
>thing. The more people listen to this guy, read his words, hear what
>his henchman are saying for him, the more people are turned off and
>want to have nothing more to do with the cult.
>And that, as mad as it sounds, is exactly what DM wants. He would love
>to be able to get every SO member and every Scientologist to leave his
>organization and his "church." He kills many birds:
>Nobody left to report on what he does.
>End of endless threats of reformation, revolution, mutiny or coup.
>The whole pile of plunder is his.
>No longer has to pretend to believe in the tech.
>No longer has to pretend to get audited.
>Has anyone else heard recently of an observable increase in cult
>departures? Has anyone else been able to determine that the most
>freqently stated cause for these increasing departures is DM acting
>and issuing orders that sound suspiciously like Justin and Gert?
>Gerry
Tilman Hausherr
>He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
>investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
>Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
April 23, 1985
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
BY
DARYL F. GATES
CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES
It has come to my attention that a member of the L.A.P.D. very
foolishly, without proper authorization and contrary to the policy of
this Department, signed a letter to Eugene M. Ingram, believed to have
been drafted by Ingram himself. The letter purports to authorize
Ingram to engage in electronic eavesdropping. The letter, along with
all the purported authorization, is invalid and is NOT a
correspondence from the Los Angeles Police Department.
The Los Angeles Police Department has not cooperated with Eugene
Ingram. It will be a cold day in hell when we do.
I have directed an official letter to Ingram informing him that the
letter signed by Officer Phillip Rodriguez dated November 7, 1984, and
all other letters of purported authorizations directed to him, signed
by any member of the Los Angeles Police Department, are invalid and
unauthorized.
Internal Affairs Division is now investigating the entire incident.
Bev
wgert wrote:
>
> There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
> by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
>
> 1. He was involved himself in a scheme which was aimed at both seizing
> Church assets and total church control.
>
> investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
> Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
Where is the official Police Records documenting this allegation?
You need to post the case # and give a way to see if what you are
saying is true.
Where are the court records for this so we can read those too.
This is a serious allegation and news to me and I would be interested
in getting the facts.
Thanks
Beverly
Harry Krause
wgert wrote:
> There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
> by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
>
>
Never mind this crap, Wedgie. Answer the questions:
what it is you do for a living?
what legitimate colleges or universities have granted you earned degrees?
William Barwell
In article <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
>by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
No, you get everything wrong, we see it here daily with you and Justine!
Spewing and a burblin' about tax protetsers, slobber, drool!
Both of you are too ridiculous for words.
>
>1. He was involved himself in a scheme which was aimed at both seizing
>Church assets and total church control.
Oh, bullshit. H ewas involved in a scheme to write a biography
of Hubbard until he discovered Hubbard was one of the biggest
liars on two legs. Then teh cult decided simce Gerry wanted
to at least stop teh cult peddling it's lying biographies of
Hubbard to lean on him. He realized they were only going to RPF him
again sooner or later and were NOT going to stop the embarressing lying.
So he left and was fair gamed.
And this is the great part of the joke, son.
THAT LIES ARE STILL THERE! ANNNNNNNNDDDDD,
NOW THEY ARE LYING ON GERALD ARMSTRONG AS WELL!!!!
Amazing isn't it. So predictable.
DM plots the takeover (successful) of the cult and has
OSA pass around a lie that it was Gerald Armstrong that
was plotting the take over, (not DM)
"What is Scientology?" claims Hubbard was abandoned by his
family, "almost blind" and "crippled".
Instead it was Hubbard that (quite healthy) abandoned HIS family!
Do we see a pattern here? Of course we critics have read the
books that expalin the full Omar Garrison/Gerald Armstrong saga and the
court cases that came out later and the hard evidence Hubbard was
a liar in his own handwriting, entered into a court of law as
evidence, the original documents Hubard hoarded.
You being an ignernt git, know zip, zero, nada about this
in teh least. You know about as much about any of this as
a spotted big knows about Neiman Marcus.
All you know is teh lies passed on to you from OSA for you to spread.
You are too ignorant to know that all of this is truthfully laid
out in Bare Faced Messiah and A Piece of Blue Sky, which books RELY
on the access to the original documents that came out of all this nonsense
when Armstrong fled teh cult and made them available to the world.
The lie about this taking over the church crap is a lie
that came out MUCH later.
Unfortunately, WGert, you cannot hear the laughter at your expense.
Your OSA handlers are so stupid, they do not know about teh critical
books either and so have no idea their clumsy lies are obvious
as a decomposing possum under the ol' front porch. The smell is hard
to ignore.
the sad part, for me, is you have no way of seeing how ridiculous you
really look. The funny part is, you won't belive me even though
I tell you.
>
>He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
>investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
>Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
>
Baloney! More libel from the hate cult of lies and libel.
But from a cult that claims Hubbard was a wounded war hero
when he was a deadbeat runaway dad playing sex magician at a sleazey
Crowleyite OTO temple, what can we expect? Not truth.
********* tripe deleted **********
The cult is a bunch of liars.
You are a fool for embaressing yourself by peddling long ago exploded
lies.
And you are too ignorant to even know how naked you are here.
How goes it in the mornings? Have you had to hang a towel
over the mirror yet?
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Rob Clark
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:08:43 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>3. Then there was a letter to Saddam Hussein, offering himself up to
>end the war. Here's an excerpt:
what's it like to be such a completely brainless fuck, gertie?
this is DA? that he offered up his life in the service of others?
you are sure a twisted little piece of shit, that's for sure.
rob
Nick Andrew
In <34C111...@iag.net> Bev <dbj...@iag.net> writes:
>wgert wrote:
>> He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
>> investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
>> Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
>This is a serious allegation and news to me and I would be interested
>in getting the facts.
Ah, but there are no facts. So you won't get any.
It's the "Scientology Way[tm]"!
Nick.
--
Zeta Internet Fax: +61-2-9233-6545 Voice: 9837-1397
G.P.O. Box 3400, Sydney NSW 1043 http://www.zeta.org.au/
Robert Vaughn Young
The following is what Scientology is calling "hate" on ARS: the refutation
of RTC/OSA-sponsored lies and misrepresentations that are generated as
part of LRH's "Fair Game" doctrine. (The one they like to say was
cancelled, which is another lie.) Thank you, Tilman.
RVY
Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
: >He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
: >investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
: >Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
: April 23, 1985
: PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
: BY
: DARYL F. GATES
: CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES
: It has come to my attention that a member of the L.A.P.D. very
: foolishly, without proper authorization and contrary to the policy of
: this Department, signed a letter to Eugene M. Ingram, believed to have
: been drafted by Ingram himself. The letter purports to authorize
: Ingram to engage in electronic eavesdropping. The letter, along with
: all the purported authorization, is invalid and is NOT a
: correspondence from the Los Angeles Police Department.
: The Los Angeles Police Department has not cooperated with Eugene
: Ingram. It will be a cold day in hell when we do.
: I have directed an official letter to Ingram informing him that the
: letter signed by Officer Phillip Rodriguez dated November 7, 1984, and
: all other letters of purported authorizations directed to him, signed
: by any member of the Los Angeles Police Department, are invalid and
: unauthorized.
: Internal Affairs Division is now investigating the entire incident.
--
*----------------------------------------------*
Robert Vaughn Young * The most potent weapon of the oppressor is *
wri...@eskimo.com * the mind of the oppressed. - Steve Biko *
*----------------------------------------------*
Robert Vaughn Young
wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
: There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
: by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
Tilman has posted (in the earlier thread) a very simple refutation of this
hate/smear post from one of the RTC/OSA-robo-drones who, in good jack-boot
fashion, must attack Hubbard's equivalent of Hitler's Jews: the "SPs" who
are behind the world's crimes, evils, illnesses and chaos and who - if
they can be "disposed of" (Hubbard's words) then Scientology can rule.
Meanwhile, I am proud to call Gerry a friend.
I first came to know Gerry in 1981, when we were both in the cult. He left
in late 1981. I left in 1989. I didn't get to meet him again for several
years after that.
Gerry and I shared quite a bit, starting with the LRH Archives, consisting
of LRH's personal papers, letters, manuscripts etc. I was even called by
the C of S to testify against him in his court case, a matter that the
cult now likes to throw in my face with massive alterations of what
happened. (If they want to do it again, I'll be happy to tell the story of
the LRH Archives. Please, make my day.)
In these past few years of knowing each other, Gerry and I have become
good friends. We've spent many a philosophical/metaphysical discussion,
tossing about ideas in a fashion that is prohibited by the Scientology
Thought Police. (Kicking around an LRH idea as one might with anyone's
ideas is completely forbidden in the cult. One is there to "duplicate"
LRH, not to analyze his ideas.)
Gerry is a kind person who is genuinely feared by the cult because of what
he knows and what was done to him. That is why he is attacked so
viciously. Yet I really can't think of anyone who walks with a gentler
step or a wider smile, which is foreign to a jack-boot mentality.
I agree with Gerry. The words of the "wgert"s and the "justin"s show them
for who they are.
And so does Gerry's.
Fortunately, the real world that reads ARS can tell the difference.
wgert
>>wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
>>by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
>Robert Vaughn Young
>wri...@eskimo.com
How noble of you. Have you relinquished money too according to Gerry's
gospel? Are you going to offer yourself up in the next Iraqi war a la
Gerry? Plan to spend sometime in jail with him?
wgert
wgert
Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
LAPD works with the CoS all the time - now who had the last laugh?
wgert
wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>The following is what Scientology is calling "hate" on ARS: the refutation
>of RTC/OSA-sponsored lies and misrepresentations that are generated as
>part of LRH's "Fair Game" doctrine. (The one they like to say was
>cancelled, which is another lie.) Thank you, Tilman.
>RVY
>Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
>: In <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>: >He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
>: >investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
>: >Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
>: April 23, 1985
>: PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
>: BY
>: DARYL F. GATES
>: CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES
snip
Eric Bohlman
wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
: Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
: virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
: LAPD works with the CoS all the time - now who had the last laugh?
This is a perfect illustration of the limits that binary thinking imposes
on the mind. In your worldview, an individual is either all bad or all
good, with no in-betweens. Gates made plenty of truly rotten decisions,
but that does not imply that every single decision he made was bad. You
can't let yourself see *any* mistakes that Hubbard made, because you
can't separate out the various things he did over his lifetime. If he
made *one* mistake, then to you *everything* he did was a mistake and
your entire belief system comes crashing down. Funny, though, how the
FreeZoners think they can separate Hubbard's wheat from his chaff. To
them, Hubbard did some incredibly destructive things *and* some
incredibly constructive things. That's probably why the make you so
angry; because they have freedoms available to them that you deny yourself.
Eric Bohlman
wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
: >RVY (wri...@eskimo.com) wrote:
: >Meanwhile, I am proud to call Gerry a friend.
: snip
: >Robert Vaughn Young
: >wri...@eskimo.com
: How noble of you. Have you relinquished money too according to Gerry's
: gospel? Are you going to offer yourself up in the next Iraqi war a la
: Gerry? Plan to spend sometime in jail with him?
Here in WogWorld, our concept of friendship does *not* require that one
totally agree with another person's attitudes or beliefs in order to call
him a friend. Wog kids grow out of that childish belief at an early age.
arnie_lerma
January 14, 1998
Anaoldo Lerma
6045 N 26th Road
Arlington VA 22207
Re: Gerald Armstrong
Dear Mr & Ms. Young:
I enclose a copy of the Judgement of Permanent Injunction issued by
the Marin County Superior Court on Oct 17, 1995. I direct your attention
to page 7, lines 1-3, which enjoins Armstrong as well as all persons acting in
concert with him. I trust you will conduct yourself accordingly.
Very Truly Yours
WILSON CAMPILONGO LLP
Andrew H Wilson
------------------------
rgonnet
Robert Vaughn Young wrote:
> The following is what Scientology is calling "hate" on ARS: the refutation
> of RTC/OSA-sponsored lies and misrepresentations that are generated as
> part of LRH's "Fair Game" doctrine. (The one they like to say was
> cancelled, which is another lie.) Thank you, Tilman.
>
> RVY
>
> Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
> : In <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>
> : >He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
> : >investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
> : >Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
>
> : April 23, 1985
>
> : PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
> : BY
> : DARYL F. GATES
> : CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES
>
> : It has come to my attention that a member of the L.A.P.D. very
> : foolishly, without proper authorization and contrary to the policy of
> : this Department, signed a letter to Eugene M. Ingram, believed to have
> : been drafted by Ingram himself. The letter purports to authorize
> : Ingram to engage in electronic eavesdropping. The letter, along with
> : all the purported authorization, is invalid and is NOT a
> : correspondence from the Los Angeles Police Department.
>
> : The Los Angeles Police Department has not cooperated with Eugene
> : Ingram. It will be a cold day in hell when we do.
>
> : I have directed an official letter to Ingram informing him that the
> : letter signed by Officer Phillip Rodriguez dated November 7, 1984, and
> : all other letters of purported authorizations directed to him, signed
> : by any member of the Los Angeles Police Department, are invalid and
> : unauthorized.
>
> : Internal Affairs Division is now investigating the entire incident.
>
Hey, that's another footbullet, scieno can make some sort of a collection of
those, now... we had the well known Minister of Norwegian Defense, which
sci-fi-adepts did "speak" very loudly from the sacred booklet "morale and
scientolocrimes" (i mean, the moralizing booklet of shit speak they are
distributing by thousands to people)... while he hed never even read it.
Roger
Rebecca Hartong
Arnie Lerma wrote in message <6a51nf$h...@sdrn.zippo.com>...
> January 14, 1998
>Anaoldo Lerma
>6045 N 26th Road
>Arlington VA 22207
>
> Re: Gerald Armstrong
>
>Dear Mr & Ms. Young:
LOL! Screwed up the spelling of your first name AND forgot to change the
salutation to "Dear Mr Lerma" !!
I think 'ole Andy might want to consider a new secretary. The one he's got
is contributing to his growing reputation for idiotic behavior.
Ex Mudder
In article <6a51nf$h...@sdrn.zippo.com>, Arnie Lerma wrote:
> January 14, 1998
>Anaoldo Lerma
>6045 N 26th Road
>Arlington VA 22207
>
> Re: Gerald Armstrong
>
>Dear Mr & Ms. Young:
>
>
> I enclose a copy of the Judgement of Permanent Injunction issued by
>the Marin County Superior Court on Oct 17, 1995. I direct your attention
>to page 7, lines 1-3, which enjoins Armstrong as well as all persons acting in
>concert with him. I trust you will conduct yourself accordingly.
>
a) Marin County Superior Court does not have jurisdiction over
residents of Virginia or Washington
b) Marin County Superior Court does not have jurisdiction over
federal cases.
I forget who else got one of these, but a complaint to the state bar
would be a good idea, if it wasn't a completely useless gesture. I
did post the California Code of Civil Procedure code section about how
State court can't enjoin in a federal case.
Tilman Hausherr
Ellie Babble-on:
> I enclose a copy of the Judgement of Permanent Injunction issued by
>the Marin County Superior Court on Oct 17, 1995. I direct your attention
>to page 7, lines 1-3, which enjoins Armstrong as well as all persons acting in
>concert with him. I trust you will conduct yourself accordingly.
My suggestion about these letters: respond, and ask questions. This
means he will have to respond, which means that he will have to bill his
client.
This is "SP-Dev-T" !!
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Tilman Hausherr
>Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
>virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
>LAPD works with the CoS all the time - now who had the last laugh?
The topic is not whether Daryl Gates is a good guy or not. The topic is
that you lied - and I proved it with a press release of the Chief.
Garry Scarff
Arnie, Lerma wrote:
>
> January 14, 1998
> Anaoldo Lerma
> 6045 N 26th Road
> Arlington VA 22207
>
> Re: Gerald Armstrong
>
> Dear Mr & Ms. Young:
>
> the Marin County Superior Court on Oct 17, 1995. I direct your attention
> to page 7, lines 1-3, which enjoins Armstrong as well as all persons acting in
> concert with him. I trust you will conduct yourself accordingly.
>
>
> WILSON CAMPILONGO LLP
>
> Andrew H Wilson
Does anyone have Andy's e-mail address. I'd like to have a word with
the old boy.
Garry
Garry Scarff
Does anyone have Andy's e-mail address? I'm going to have to write to
the old boy...
GS
Stanley Anderson
Anonymous <anon...@anonymous.net> writes:
>Well now we knwo why the Co$ has so desperately been trying to paint a
>picture of alt.religion.scientology as an organization. They are
>trying to use the 1st amendment violating court order against gerry
>armstrong as an avenue to silence all critics...should be interesting
>to see how this one plays through.
>
>
>
>On 21 Jan 1998 06:46:07 -0800, Arnie Lerma wrote:
>>Anaoldo Lerma
>>6045 N 26th Road
>>Arlington VA 22207
>>
>> Re: Gerald Armstrong
>>
>>Dear Mr & Ms. Young:
>
Stan Anderson
arnie_lerma
In article , Stanley says...
Stan, I was wundering about that also.
That is was sent to me rather than counsel of record - David Masselli
is also odd, that it addressed to Vaughn is likely 'an acceptable truth'
to provide a justification for just another attempt to intimidate.
I have got a fax also from Johnson and Johnson, another cult lawfirm
- in Florida re an intreview I did with Springer Verlag that ran
in the Hamburger Abenblatt (pardon spelling] a year or so ago also.
and I dont have a ful translation of it but everyone that reads german
thought it was a humdinger and chuckles when they read it.
Then of course there was the traffic just prior to the RAID in August 95..
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/wpost.html
And then the fax re the Spanish Criminal Indictment, Pat Broker
and saying bad thing about them on the internet Nov 4 1994
that resulted in the Washington Post article about the goons coming to
my door that ran on Christmas day 1994 - http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lerma.html
Arnie Lerma - Ex-Scieno
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mnd
john d.
Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: >Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
: >virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
Note selective nonapplication of Godwin's law.
Rob Clark
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:08:43 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
[never mind your pitiful smears]
you dumbfuck!
i note you deliberately posted under the rubric
"wgert and justin against Scientology!"
this means that you approve of the Subject: line.
you are a cult of spammers. what everyone sees of you is the Subject:
line of your posts, before skipping past some silly libel which is so
lamely predictable that everyone just ignores it. they already read
it 3 years ago. or at least 20 times since tuesday.
so that's all you said.
you once again admitted that you are pitiful SPs pissing on your own
cult by posting under entheta Subjects.
weak fool.
scientologist.
rob
Robert Vaughn Young
Watch Scientology's official ARS mouthpiece apply Hubbard technology:
On 17 Jan wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote: [Gerry Armstrong] was involved
himself in a scheme which was aimed at both seizing Church assets and
total church control. [new paragraph] He was caught in this in the
mid-1980's in a police sanctioned investigation, which found that he was
conspiring to infiltrate the Church and plant forged documents and have
the Church raided.
Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) then submitted a 1981 statement
from LAPD Chief Gates that said there was no sanctioned investigation,
thereby showing that "wgert"s claim/respresentation was false. Here is
"wgert"s reply?
: Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
: virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
: LAPD works with the CoS all the time - now who had the last laugh?
Additionally it should be pointed out that NO chargers were filed against
Armstrong but per Hubbard policy, "wgert" is to "find or manufacture" the
threat, so when they can't find it, they MANUFACTURE it, as in INVENT.
Thus what you see with "wgert" is Hubbard policy being applied.
: wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
: >The following is what Scientology is calling "hate" on ARS: the refutation
: >of RTC/OSA-sponsored lies and misrepresentations that are generated as
: >part of LRH's "Fair Game" doctrine. (The one they like to say was
: >cancelled, which is another lie.) Thank you, Tilman.
: >RVY
: >Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: >: In <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
: >: >He was caught in this in the mid-1980's in a police sanctioned
: >: >investigation, which found that he was conspiring to infiltrate the
: >: >Church and plant forged documents and have the Church raided.
: >: April 23, 1985
: >: PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
: >: BY
: >: DARYL F. GATES
: >: CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES
: snip
Robert Vaughn Young
wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
: >>wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
: >>There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
: >>by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
: snip
: >Meanwhile, I am proud to call Gerry a friend.
: snip
: >Robert Vaughn Young
: >wri...@eskimo.com
: How noble of you. Have you relinquished money too according to Gerry's
: gospel? Are you going to offer yourself up in the next Iraqi war a la
: Gerry? Plan to spend sometime in jail with him?
One of the most stunning insights I had after leaving the cult was the
true notion of "friend." What it becomes in the cult is another cult
member.
I wrote up part of it in my post regarding the cats and Minton, re
"neighbors." It was an astounding realization that one cannot have a
"neighbor" in the cult. (And let me clarify here: I mean staff member,
such as those living at the Complex.) I came to realize that there were
people who were friends solely on the basis of proximity: they lived next
door or down the street. That does not happen in the cult. The paranoia is
too great.
And so the "wgert" account has this WEIRD idea of "friend," that to be a
friend to someone means you share their ideology and the reason is THAT IS
WHAT "FRIEND" MEANS IN SCIENTOLOGY.
That is what Scientology creates. I thank the "wgert" acccount (the
official Scientology account on ARS) for showing it fully.
William Barwell
In article <6a350a$n3h$2...@usenet51.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>>>wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>>>There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
>>>by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
>snip
>>RVY (wri...@eskimo.com) wrote:
>>Meanwhile, I am proud to call Gerry a friend.
>snip
>>Robert Vaughn Young
>>wri...@eskimo.com
>
>How noble of you. Have you relinquished money too according to Gerry's
>gospel? Are you going to offer yourself up in the next Iraqi war a la
>Gerry? Plan to spend sometime in jail with him?
>
Nobody's going to jail. Gertie. Well, maybe Miscavige over the fraud
and forgeries involved in Hubbard's will.
Now, back to that question you simply will not answer so I must keep
asking, what is your personal opinion of teh fact that Hubbard lied when
he claime dhe was "almost blind" and "crippled" and abandoned by his
family at the end of WWII? Why does Scientology still actively peddle
this known lie? Why can't you as the obvious OSA agent here, teh official
ARS Scientologist, answer this question? Hubbard was not crippled nor
blind and abandoned his family to run away and play at being a Crowelyite
sex magician and occultist.
Do you care that your cult and Hubbard looks very bad peddling thsi
squallid lie in an obvious attempt to make his own family hated
based on a snarlinmg set of libels and lies?
Think about it tomorrow when you see that bedroom mirror.
Think about that next time you pick up the E-meter.
How can anybody trust a cult that peddles such ugly and false lies?
How come you can't answer me, Mr. Cult Weasel?
William Barwell
In article <6a357a$n3h$3...@usenet51.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>Thanks for bringing this up Vaughn. This is cool - the paragon of
>virtue. Daryl Gates was run out of office for being a nazi - and the
>LAPD works with the CoS all the time - now who had the last laugh?
>
>
Ingram was run out of the LAPD for being corrupt, pimping,
and more.
And you shits hired him as the cult's favorite harasser and
intimidator. What a nasty hate cult!
Sis you think about Hubbard's lies this morning when you saw the mirror,
Gertie? he wasn't much of a man, was he, admit the truth.
You will think of his lies about being abandoned by his family
blind and crippled everytime you see that bathroom mirror or an
E-meter. You will think of this infamous lie.
wgert
No wonder that Young failed as a PR if that's what he thought it means
to maintain friendly relations with the environment which is the
senior policy.
No matter where I've met Scientologists (students and public and
staff), and went out with them to dinners, parties, they always had a
bunch of friends who were not into Scientology.
It's because of people like Young and the attitude he portrayed and
portrays that the Church pulled in any bad PR at all. From what I
heard, Gerry Armstrong too caused more than one PR flap, putting his
then fellow Sea Org members at severe risk.
wgert
wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
Archangel
wgert wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> No matter where I've met Scientologists (students and public and
> staff), and went out with them to dinners, parties, they always had a
> bunch of friends who were not into Scientology.
Hmmm, you make no mention of your OWN friends outside of Co$. Do you
have any? Or aren't OSA allowed contact with wogs?
[more snip]
Rob Clark
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:05:10 GMT, anon...@anonymous.net (Anonymous) wrote:
>It's because of people like Young and the attitude he portrayed and
>portrays that the Church pulled in any bad PR at all. From what I
>heard, Gerry Armstrong too caused more than one PR flap, putting his
>then fellow Sea Org members at severe risk.
so who is the ignorant asshole pulling in all your shore flaps NOW?
you? or your little circle-jerk of scum?
>wgert
rob
rgonnet
Robert Vaughn Young wrote:
> wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
> : >>wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
> : >>There is something to be beware of regarding any analysis engaged upon
> : >>by Gerry Armstrong. He has a history of getting it wrong:
> : snip
> : >RVY (wri...@eskimo.com) wrote:
> : >Meanwhile, I am proud to call Gerry a friend.
> : snip
> : >Robert Vaughn Young
> : >wri...@eskimo.com
>
> : How noble of you. Have you relinquished money too according to Gerry's
> : gospel? Are you going to offer yourself up in the next Iraqi war a la
> : Gerry? Plan to spend sometime in jail with him?
>
> One of the most stunning insights I had after leaving the cult was the
> true notion of "friend." What it becomes in the cult is another cult
> member.
and every member of the cult is also, at least for scientology, some sort of a
possible enemy who can spit on you the first time he/she thinks you can have
said or done or thought anything contrary to cult's shitthinking. No friends
at all: even one's wife or husband can become the one who will get you
RPFed...
Roger
Robert Vaughn Young
wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
: It's because of people like Young and the attitude he portrayed and
: portrays that the Church pulled in any bad PR at all.
(ROFLMAO!)
I left in 1989, before the six part LA Times series, Time magazine,
Germany, Greece, Canada, Lisa McPherson and the rise of the Internet.
Who's been pulling it in since then?
Rod Keller
Robert Vaughn Young (wri...@eskimo.com) wrote:
: I left in 1989, before the six part LA Times series, Time magazine,
: Germany, Greece, Canada, Lisa McPherson and the rise of the Internet.
: Who's been pulling it in since then?
A while ago you offered to make available a list of your posts. Were you
thinking of doing that still? It'd be interesting. Dates, places, seniors,
explanations, whatever you feel like putting down.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / Golden Gate Bridge Club
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Kha Khan countdown: 9 to go
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully
Martin Hunt
In article <6asje0$ach$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>,
wri...@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young) wrote:
>wgert (wg...@loop.com) wrote:
>
>: It's because of people like Young and the attitude he portrayed and
>: portrays that the Church pulled in any bad PR at all.
>
>(ROFLMAO!)
>I left in 1989, before the six part LA Times series, Time magazine,
>Germany, Greece, Canada, Lisa McPherson and the rise of the Internet.
>Who's been pulling it in since then?
Robert, you were in Scientology for many years, were you not?
Why did it take the cult so long to spot you as an SP? I thought
they had 100% standard tech for spotting SPs, but people like
you and Gerry Armstrong and David Mayo and Dennis Erlich were
in for *years* and got very high in the organization, some of
you even working with Hubbard himself, without being spotted
as the suppressives you are.
How could that be? Is the PTS/SP tech invalid or just not
properly applied by Hubbard, Miscavige, and others? Why couldn't
Hubbard properly apply his own tech to spot these SPs, some
of whom actually *audited* him, before years and years went
by?
I'd love to see a Scientologist explain this apparent flaw in
Hubbard, his tech, or both.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"But regardless how hard the going is for us critics in the face
of entrenched evil, as Winston Churchill said once that these are
not the dark days, but rather the great days. They are great because
the cult is giving each of us an opportunity to find out the depth
of our love of freedom." - Grady Ward.
William Barwell
In article <6b39h3$rin$2...@usenet85.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>Q: Who has to be paid to tell lies and hasn't been able to work a day
>in the last 4 years.
Wgert. Liar. fraud. Sea Org layabout.
So, why do you tell lies?
Why did Hubbard lie he was abandoned by his family after WWII, crippled
and almost blind? It was a lie, wasn't it?
Why can't you admit this truth? Why does Scientology peddle these
furious and exploded lies to this day, demeaning themselves with
these lies and others?
Who has to kiss OSA ass and spew his daily lies to pretend
he is doing something worth doing for a stupid and savage cult
to earn his pathetic $50 a month Sea org allowance?
Gertie, that's you.
So, did you think about Hubbard's lies this morning when yiou saw that
mirror? You will tomorrow too.
Why did Hubbard want the world to hate his family so badly he
would concoct a lie that his family abandoned him almost blind and
crippled after WWII? When he abandoned them to run away and play sex
magcian and thief?
Why was hubbard so consumed by hate he would lie like this on his own
family?
Why is Scientology so hateful it keeps peddling this hate filled lie
on its website?
Why do you not care that this lie is still being peddled?
Think about this tomorrow.
And everytime you see an E-meter, you will think of this lie and ask
yourself, why was Hubbard so furiously aberrated he would lie like this?
What were his overts and withholds?
RVY has a nice wife, his new house, his job saving cats and
other animals, and the love and admiration of many netizens.
What do you have?
Hubbard's lies, OSA's lies, a pathetic life as a sea org drudge.
wgert
Q: Who has to be paid to tell lies and hasn't been able to work a day
in the last 4 years.
A: Vaughn Young.
Q: Who has to kiss Bob Minton's butt on a daily basis and beg him for
money because he is too fat and lazy to work.
A: Vaughn Young.
Need I say more!
wgert
Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
www.dancris.com/~rshaw
Exile49
Q: Who won't reply when asked about the lies of $cientology? Who can't explain
where the "eight million members" come from ?
A: Wgert the snake.
Q: Who will never engage in genuine debate about the Co$ ?
A: Wgert the fool.
Q: Who can't "handle" ARS? And who can't stop Operation Clambake?
A: Wgert the OSA flunkie.
Q: Who believes that he is covered with nasty parasites called "body thetans"
that can only be gotten rid of by paying big bucks to the cult of $cientology.
A: Wgert the gullible.
Again Wgert is reduced to taking pot-shots at people on ARS. He can't get
rid of the critics or put Xenu back into the bottle so this is all he can do.
Wgert, remember back before you became an auditing junkie? You were free
then.
The Exile
For the hidden story of the Sea Org (including names, dates and places) see:
http://www.entheta.net/entheta/1stpersn/warrior/
Tilman Hausherr
>Q: Who has to be paid to tell lies and hasn't been able to work a day
>in the last 4 years.
>
>A: Vaughn Young.
>
>Q: Who has to kiss Bob Minton's butt on a daily basis and beg him for
>money because he is too fat and lazy to work.
>
>A: Vaughn Young.
Is there an org in Seattle to picket?
Paul
Dianetics Counseling Group of Seattle
2124 3rd St.
Seattle, WA
(206) 443-8888
Dianetics
1545 134th NE
Bellevue, WA
(425) 562-0872
Dianetics Center of Burien
15216 2nd Ave. SW
Burien, WA
(206) 431-9739
The Seattle org is open 1-10 p.m. on weekdays and 10-5 on Saturday. The
Burien org is open 6-10 p.m. on weeknights and 9-5 on Saturday. I
couldn't get an answer from the Bellevue org.
The Seattle and Burien orgs are listed in the phone book under both
Dianetics and Scientology. The Bellevue org is only listed under
Dianetics.
-Paul
Paul
wgert wrote:
>
> Q: Who has to be paid to tell lies and hasn't been able to work a day
> in the last 4 years.
Can you identify even one lie that Vaughn Young has told?
Will you tell us who pays you, wgert? Do you have a job? You've
certainly been caught lying--e.g., your claim to be a news
administrator--are you paid to do this?
> Q: Who has to kiss Bob Minton's butt on a daily basis and beg him for
> money because he is too fat and lazy to work.
From what I've been told, Robert Minton bought a house, *which he still
owns*, and donated this house to the Youngs for their cat shelter. The
financial arrangements between Minton and Young are, of course, none of
my business (and none of yours).
> Need I say more!
Actually, yes. You could respond to Martin's question. Here, I'll even
reproduce it for you:
>Robert, you were in Scientology for many years, were you not?
>Why did it take the cult so long to spot you as an SP? I thought
>they had 100% standard tech for spotting SPs, but people like
>you and Gerry Armstrong and David Mayo and Dennis Erlich were
>in for *years* and got very high in the organization, some of
>you even working with Hubbard himself, without being spotted
>as the suppressives you are.
>
>How could that be? Is the PTS/SP tech invalid or just not
>properly applied by Hubbard, Miscavige, and others? Why couldn't
>Hubbard properly apply his own tech to spot these SPs, some
>of whom actually *audited* him, before years and years went
>by?
>
>I'd love to see a Scientologist explain this apparent flaw in
>Hubbard, his tech, or both.
Now, wgert, would you care to explain?
-Paul
Pamela Fitzpatrick
Paul <pauldb@REMOVE_ME.seanet.com> wrote in article
<34D755EA.5341@REMOVE_ME.seanet.com>...
> Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> > Is there an org in Seattle to picket?
>
> Dianetics Counseling Group of Seattle
> 2124 3rd St.
> Seattle, WA
> (206) 443-8888
>
> Dianetics
> 1545 134th NE
> Bellevue, WA
> (425) 562-0872
>
> Dianetics Center of Burien
> 15216 2nd Ave. SW
> Burien, WA
> (206) 431-9739
>
> The Seattle org is open 1-10 p.m. on weekdays and 10-5 on Saturday. The
> Burien org is open 6-10 p.m. on weeknights and 9-5 on Saturday. I
> couldn't get an answer from the Bellevue org.
>
> The Seattle and Burien orgs are listed in the phone book under both
> Dianetics and Scientology. The Bellevue org is only listed under
> Dianetics.
>
> -Paul
>
If there are any orgs in Tacoma -- consider those too -- Tacoma is at the
south end of the Island and one of the Ferry points. I figured that you put
out Burien...so minds on well go a tad more south <G>
-Pam
--
Pamela Fitzpatrick
http://www.trancenet.org
editor: Shattered Hearts
a webzine devoted to the abuse and recovery issues
surrounding cultic relationships; whether you are in one
yourself or if you know someone that is.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil
is that good men do nothing.
--Edmund Burke 1790
Robert Vaughn Young
Paul (pauldb@REMOVE_ME.seanet.com) wrote:
snipping
: Actually, yes. You could respond to Martin's question. Here, I'll even
: reproduce it for you:
: >Robert, you were in Scientology for many years, were you not?
: >Why did it take the cult so long to spot you as an SP? I thought
: >they had 100% standard tech for spotting SPs, but people like
: >you and Gerry Armstrong and David Mayo and Dennis Erlich were
: >in for *years* and got very high in the organization, some of
: >you even working with Hubbard himself, without being spotted
: >as the suppressives you are.
: >
: >How could that be? Is the PTS/SP tech invalid or just not
: >properly applied by Hubbard, Miscavige, and others? Why couldn't
: >Hubbard properly apply his own tech to spot these SPs, some
: >of whom actually *audited* him, before years and years went
: >by?
: >
: >I'd love to see a Scientologist explain this apparent flaw in
: >Hubbard, his tech, or both.
: Now, wgert, would you care to explain?
The "wgert" account won't because no one there can. This is one of the
more disturbing problems people in there have, trying to reconcile LRH's
abilities with his blindness for SPs. Pat Broeker was supposed to be the
final one on LRH's case yet he was with LRH for *years* and LRH did
nothing, right up to his death.
So RTC/OSA people are left with this rattling in their heads. If LRH had
the tech to spot them, why didn't he spot them. Or, if he did, why didn't
he do something? (Hey, must have been some "secret" research project LRH
was working on. Yeah, that's it!)
Boy, one goes through some mighty twists of the mind to reconcile this!
Robert Vaughn Young
>Q: Who has to kiss Bob Minton's butt on a daily basis and beg him for
>money because he is too fat and lazy to work.
>
>A: Vaughn Young.
Who steals and injures an innocent animal to make a threat?
Robert Vaughn Young
Tilman Hausherr (til...@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: Is there an org in Seattle to picket?
There is a dump of an org across from a park loaded with drunks that no
one can find with the blinds closed so no one can see it is empty. The
place shows how bad the cult is doing in Seattle.
Klaus Bloemker
Paul (pauldb@REMOVE_ME.seanet.com) wrote
> Martin's question:
: >Robert, you were in Scientology for many years, were you not?
: >Why did it take the cult so long to spot you as an SP? I thought
: >they had 100% standard tech for spotting SPs, but people like
: >without being spotted as the suppressives you are.
: >
: >How could that be? Is the PTS/SP tech invalid ... ?
RVY:
> This is one of the more disturbing problems people in there have,
> trying to reconcile LRH's abilities with his blindness for SPs. Pat
> Broeker was supposed to be the final one on LRH's case ...
Well, that's disturbing. But after all, Hubbard was a humanitarian.
That's why he liked all of you. And David Miscavige liked Martin Hunt
untill last summer. He pleaded, Martin should come back, "clear the
planet with him and win immortality" - that were his words. Actually,
I think, all of you already won their immortalty, and Cos its Hell.
But let's get serious now. Scientology is statistics and for them,
NUMBERS MAKE TRUTH. (Actually, that's in the American tradition.)
But for some reason, they are not coming forward with this TRUTH.
Klaus Bloemker
Martin Hunt
In article <34DF60...@metronet.de>,
Klaus Bloemker <bloe...@metronet.de> wrote:
>Well, that's disturbing. But after all, Hubbard was a humanitarian.
>That's why he liked all of you. And David Miscavige liked Martin Hunt
>untill last summer. He pleaded, Martin should come back, "clear the
>planet with him and win immortality" - that were his words.
It was never established that the cob...@juno.com account was, in
fact, David Miscavige. In fact, the only evidence which surfaced
pointed toward Steve Fishman running a troll.
I was hoping Steve would come clean on this and own up to the
troll, or something would surface to prove he didn't do it or
some conclusive end to the matter, but it doesn't look like it
ever will be closed.
I find it a bit hard to believe that David Miscavige would
take a few hours out of his week to write so long emails to
me, of all people, but I guess anything's possible.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
Free! Email hel...@online.no for $cientology $ecret NOTs! See
what deluded cult members pay $360,000 for!
Martin Hunt
From: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Scientologists MUST answer people's questions as per policy was: Re: ARS: Young/Armstrong
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:48:31 -0800
Organization: The ARSCC: http://www.arscc.com/
Reply-To: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
Message-ID: <POp10Mdl...@islandnet.com>
References: <884961080...@dejanews.com>
<34bfbe8b...@news.dowco.com> <69qoks$p0a$2...@usenet88.supernews.com>
<6a350a$n3h$2...@usenet51.supernews.com> <6agds5$rs$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>
<6alg7s$32k$1...@usenet76.supernews.com> <6asje0$ach$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>
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In article <6b39h3$rin$2...@usenet85.supernews.com>, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
>Q: Who has to be paid to tell lies and hasn't been able to work a day
>in the last 4 years.
>
>A: Vaughn Young.
>
>Q: Who has to kiss Bob Minton's butt on a daily basis and beg him for
>money because he is too fat and lazy to work.
>
>A: Vaughn Young.
>
>Need I say more!
>
>wgert
> Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
> www.dancris.com/~rshaw
Er, wgert, this wasn't even *remotely* an answer to my question.
Did you even read my question? It was along the lines of:
How did so many SPs such as Dennis Erlich, David Mayo and Robert
Young get so high in Scientology and so close to Hubbard without
being detected? Why did Hubbard's tech fail, and why wasn't
Hubbard himself able to apply it to spot the SPs? Some of these
SPs even *audited* Hubbard without his detection until years
later.
Wgert, I doubt you'll be able to answer this question, because,
truth be know, you Scientologists almost never answer questions,
in direct violation of YOUR OWN POLICIES:
1. "But on post or off, we only fail when we do not help. The "public"
only objects to us when we fail to help or when we fail to answer their
questions. So we have two stable data on which we operate whether we're
on post or not: HELP PEOPLE! ANSWER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS EXACTLY! When
you don't you let everybody down." - HCOPL 2 Nov 1970, The Theory of
Scientology Organizations.
2. "16. Answer people's questions. Understand the question, answer it,
make friends." - HCOPL 25 April 1963, Duties of a Staff Member.
3. "A fourth cause [of creating ARC breaks] is failing to answer a
person's questions in letters." - HCOPL 28 April 1973, Good Service.
4. "People's Questions: A congress M U S T An organization M U S T
*answer* people's questions. This is the primary public complaint-that
Scientologists in the organization or out won't answer directly questions
asked about this or that. Understand it, answer it, make friends."
- HCOB 18 June 1957, People's Questions.
5. "In answering letters, answer their *questions*. Give them the
information they are seeking. Use the gradient scale method. DO NOT
FAIL TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS. If you don't know the answers, find
out." - HCOPL 4 January 1966, Scientology Organizations Communications
System: Despatches.
- And many others; this is basic, primary Scientology policy, and
you're failing to apply it. You should be declared suppressive for
your failures to apply basic policy. Note in particular item #4;
that is almost the entire statement of that HCOB. Wgert, go clear
"Must" in the context "An organization MUST *answer* people's
questions." (all emphasis in originals).
ttyl,
martin.
Garry Scarff
Martin Hunt <mar...@islandnet.com> wrote in article
<yK/30MdlgY...@islandnet.com>...
> In article <34DF60...@metronet.de>
<snip>
> I find it a bit hard to believe that David Miscavige would
> take a few hours out of his week to write so long emails to
> me, of all people, but I guess anything's possible.
It wasn't Miscavige. He wouldn't waste his time communicating with you in
this fashion.
Garry