Church admits to spying
EuroCult Report
pray for cult victims and others. Not a moment too soon.
Der Tagesspiegel of Berlin, Germany, made a report to more or less the
following effect in its January 25, 2003 edition:
The Scientology Church has admitted to having put Thomas Gandow, sect
commissioner of the Berlin-Brandenburg Evangelical Church, under
surveillance. One of its members was said to have been working for an
attorney to investigate the American ex-Scientologist, Gerald Armstrong,
who was wanted in court. There have been various orders issued on
Armstrong in US courts, said Sabine Weber of Scientology Germany. A person
would want to carry out these orders against Armstrong in Germany in
accordance with international law. It was also intended to take legal
action against him here in Germany to prohibit him from claiming that the
Scientology was out to get him.
Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from Brandenburg
to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
Armstrong.
The situation got tense enough to where he finally called the highway
patrol at Brandenburg for assistance. The police gave him a cautionary
fine for unregulated use of a cell phone from a vehicle. The police
escorted Gandow's vehicle to the city limits, where he received protection
from Berlin police.
They also placed the Luisen Church under guard during the church service
while Armstrong talked about his experiences with Scientology. Gandow
says he observed a second vehicle on the autobahn with at least three
occupants who were following and photographing the same time the first
was. The clergyman is certain that those men also had something to do with
Scientology.
The Scientology Church Germany said the incident with its member was
apparently woven into a "James Bond fantasy." The man was said to have be
"held accountable according the the church's internal disciplinary
system." The church service in the Luisen church was simply visited by a
Berlin member of Scientology, and the woman was in charge of "local public
affairs work and legal interests." Gandow was reported to have said that
the woman had something to do with the management of Scientology's OSA
"intelligence service." The woman was said to have taken down every word
at the church service.
The Scientologists accused Gandow and Armstrong of gate-crashing the local
"Scientology Mission" in Yekaterinburg while they were visiting Russia
last December and stealing documents. Gandow said that was not what had
happened, and that they had been invited in by the local Scientology board
members and had not taken any papers with them.
weso
---
- the above is not a literal translation
- for non-commercial use only - visit http://cisar.org
Does asking questions prove you're more intelligent?
roger gonnet
be stealing pieces...
Look, they are here at risk of being sued before what is called "Les
Assises" for "extorsion as an organized gang".
The main evidences were from some few pieces taken in his own ethics
files by a guy called Alain Stoffen, who was a scientologist since 15
years. He complained, to get his money back, etc.
Now the crime cultists (his two ex-wives are crime-cultists in France,
one is OSA chief) say they have complained against him for... theft of
these pieces.
You know, like if a gang takes some shots of their hold-ups in a Bank,
then , when police finds the tapes, the criminals complain against them
for "theft".
roger
"EuroCult Report" <german_...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message
de news: Pine.LNX.3.96.10301...@darkstar.zippy...
Beverly Rice
> Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
> Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
> vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from Brandenburg
> to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
> Armstrong.
Yep, this is standard practice by the Co$. It has been done many
times to many critics. Here is an example caught on film:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard13.html
On this page, you can see where one Co$ persuer actually created a
minor accident in the parking lot with the German file crew they
were "following":
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard14.html
Here the Co$ follows and watches again, which is a well-known
and not surprising scientology staple:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard15.html
They have this common practice of following people around, and
thankfully at least all of this is being laid down in a history
via reporting to the NG of how much it is done.
Keith Henson has been followed around a lot.
Quite a while back the report was made of how both he and
Grady Ward were followed. Of course, trying to outrun them,
or make a game of it . . .
is just as stupid on the part of the followee as it is on
the part of the follower.
> The situation got tense enough to where he finally called the highway
> patrol at Brandenburg for assistance. The police gave him a cautionary
> fine for unregulated use of a cell phone from a vehicle.
That's interesting. Weren't they cautioned for following you?
They only gave a cautionary fine for "unregulated used of a cell
phone from a vehicle"? That's almost amusing if it wasn't so sad.
> The police
> escorted Gandow's vehicle to the city limits, where he received protection
> from Berlin police.
Protection from what?
> They also placed the Luisen Church under guard during the church service
> while Armstrong talked about his experiences with Scientology. Gandow
> says he observed a second vehicle on the autobahn with at least three
> occupants who were following and photographing the same time the first
> was. The clergyman is certain that those men also had something to do with
> Scientology.
Of course they had something to do with scientology, they were
working for the Co$, and following and photographing which is
standard procedure.
But I think it is funny that scientology obliged by playing the
game with Gandow.
Knowing how pan-determinism goes . . .
of course the announcement Gandow placed on ars and elsewhere that
he was going to do an "anti-scientology" (to use the phrase from
Stacy Brooks) "sermon" and prayer . . .
was not just an announcement . . .
but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
photographing . . .
It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
and then crying about being burned.
But they ~did~ get scientology to take the bait and to oblige
with the known and expected ~response~.
> The Scientology Church Germany said the incident with its member was
> apparently woven into a "James Bond fantasy."
Well, scientology church germany was sure stupid enough to have
fallen in to the pan-determined response . . .
so what did ~they~ expect, also.
They got beat at their own game by someone that used to help
create the games, so I hope that they get lots and lots of
negative publicity in Germany for being so foolish.
Seriously, there was no need for the tailing and photographing.
They knew who was in the car, they knew where the car was
going, and they knew what was going to be "preached" about.
That fact alone demonstrates that there is no other purpose
than intimidation . . .
and of course Gerry and Gandow were ~NOT~ intimidated, but
simply receiving the hoped for outcome that would further
an agenda to prove what is already provable . . .
Co$ is an abusive, harssive organization that will attempt
to continually use intimidtion towards those they have labelled
as enemies.
BTW, might I add, Co$ is also a fraud, and lies and openly
practices deception, and that is a provable statement.
If Co$ wants to continue to foot-bullet themselves and to be
played so easily . . .
then it is a good thing that they continue to get foot-bulleted.
I wish them many more.
I am very thankful that Co$ is their own worst enemy by being
doomed to follow actions that bring them nothing but yet more
negative publicity.
I do believe that Miscavige ~MUST~ suffer from a very severe case
of coprophilia, because he never fails to find a way to step in
it.
ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
Beverly
Tilman Hausherr
<german_...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<Pine.LNX.3.96.10301...@darkstar.zippy>:
As a reminder:
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a1/breckenridge-decision.html
"After the within suit was filed on August 2, 1982, Defendant
Armstrong was the subject of harassment, including being
followed and surveilled by individuals who admitted employment
by Plaintiff; being assaulted by one of these individuals;
being struck bodily by a car driven by one of these
individuals; having two attempts made by said individuals
apparently to involve Defendant Armstrong in a freeway
automobile accident; having said individuals come onto
Defendant Armstrong's property, spy in his windows, create
disturbances, and upset his neighbors."
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
Thomas Gandow
Beverly Rice wrote:
Are You kidding or are You really starting here to defend
Scientology, Beverly?
Are You really so stupid?
A sunday service is always a public event.
Of course it was announced to and in berlin medias.
>
> But they ~did~ get scientology to take the bait and to oblige
> with the known and expected ~response~.
>
Does this mean, the victim is responsible for the attack?
>
>>The Scientology Church Germany said the incident with its member was
>>apparently woven into a "James Bond fantasy."
>>
> Well, scientology church germany was sure stupid enough to have
> fallen in to the pan-determined response . . .
>
> so what did ~they~ expect, also.
>
>
> They got beat at their own game by someone that used to help
> create the games, so I hope that they get lots and lots of
> negative publicity in Germany for being so foolish.
>
> Seriously, there was no need for the tailing and photographing.
>
> They knew who was in the car,
it was Gerry Armstrong....
> they knew where the car was
> going, and they knew what was going to be "preached" about.
You are making the same "" as the O.SA, without really knowing,
what was preached.
Beverly, believe me, it is very easy to become an O.SA tool.
> That fact alone demonstrates that there is no other purpose
> than intimidation . . .
>
> and of course Gerry and Gandow were ~NOT~ intimidated,
Wherefrom do You know that?
> but
> simply receiving the hoped for outcome that would further
> an agenda to prove what is already provable . . .
the victim is guilty.
> Co$ is an abusive, harssive organization that will attempt
> to continually use intimidtion towards those they have labelled
> as enemies.
>
> BTW, might I add, Co$ is also a fraud, and lies and openly
> practices deception, and that is a provable statement.
>
> If Co$ wants to continue to foot-bullet themselves and to be
> played so easily . . .
>
> then it is a good thing that they continue to get foot-bulleted.
>
>
> I wish them many more.
>
> I am very thankful that Co$ is their own worst enemy by being
> doomed to follow actions that bring them nothing but yet more
> negative publicity.
>
> I do believe that Miscavige ~MUST~ suffer from a very severe case
> of coprophilia, because he never fails to find a way to step in
> it.
>
>
> ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
>
I am really, really desillusioned about You...
TG
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <3E32B6...@mpinet.net>:
>but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
>knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
>expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
>photographing . . .
>
>It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
>
>and then crying about being burned.
Hey, don't blame him for being the victim of illegal activities.
Zinj
til...@berlin.snafu.de says...
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:09:12 -0500, Beverly Rice <dbj...@mpinet.net>
> wrote in <3E32B6...@mpinet.net>:
>
> >but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
> >knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
> >expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
> >photographing . . .
> >
> >It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
> >
> >and then crying about being burned.
>
> Hey, don't blame him for being the victim of illegal activities.
Blaming the victim *is* a fairly standard tactic, and one I'm surprised
to see Bev fall into, although, most of this seems to be only further
echoes of internal critical squabbling, which it's also a bit strange to
see Bev involved in.
In fact, offering oneself as bait is one of the most consistently
successful critical tactics. Letting Scientology *be* Scientology, but do
so in public, where they can demonstrate the inherent vicious fear and
hatred they prefer to hide behind the smiley face.
After all, Scientology is nothing if not rigidly mandated by *dogma* to
act in a manner they're also mandated to *hide* out of an unusually sane
perception of the socially disgusting nature of that dogma.
Why, even ptsc, no stranger to vicious attack as methodology, nor any
friend of either Minton or Gandow, quotes this:
'Liberty is better served by presenting a clear target to one's opponents
than by joining with them in an insincere and useless brotherliness.'
Consumer interest itself *demands* demonstrations of the true nature of
Scientology, and hopefully, as in Gandow's case, with enough foresight
that the *intended* goal, whether actual violence or merely terrorism
writ individually *fails* utterly.
Don't blame the target for the attack that becomes one of Scientology's
*predictable* footbullets. The only thing that would allow an *actual*
benign and benevolent Scientology would be 100% compliance with all of
Scientology's goals. Nothing short of that would do; and it's not the
goal of Scientology Critics to be in compliance with Scientology goals.
Zinj
--
Scientology is the *Cure* for escalating Health Care Costs
'We didn't think it was a big deal'
'She died! People die! - David Miscavige
Diane Richardson
<til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:09:12 -0500, Beverly Rice <dbj...@mpinet.net>
>wrote in <3E32B6...@mpinet.net>:
>
>>but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
>>knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
>>expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
>>photographing . . .
>>
>>It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
>>
>>and then crying about being burned.
>
>Hey, don't blame him for being the victim of illegal activities.
Gandow's as much a professional victim of Scientology as his buddy
Gerry Armstrong(TM) is. What a sordid way to earn a living.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
mimus
>On January 19, 2003, Rev. Thomas Gandow held a church service in Berlin to
>pray for cult victims and others. Not a moment too soon.
>
>Der Tagesspiegel of Berlin, Germany, made a report to more or less the
>following effect in its January 25, 2003 edition:
>
>The Scientology Church has admitted to having put Thomas Gandow, sect
>commissioner of the Berlin-Brandenburg Evangelical Church, under
>surveillance. One of its members was said to have been working for an
>attorney to investigate the American ex-Scientologist, Gerald Armstrong,
>who was wanted in court. There have been various orders issued on
>Armstrong in US courts, said Sabine Weber of Scientology Germany. A person
>would want to carry out these orders against Armstrong in Germany in
>accordance with international law. It was also intended to take legal
>action against him here in Germany to prohibit him from claiming that the
>Scientology was out to get him.
I had to run this paragraph by myself twice . . . .
>Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
>Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
>vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from Brandenburg
>to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
>Armstrong.
>
>The situation got tense enough to where he finally called the highway
>patrol at Brandenburg for assistance. The police gave him a cautionary
>fine for unregulated use of a cell phone from a vehicle. The police
>escorted Gandow's vehicle to the city limits, where he received protection
>from Berlin police.
>
>They also placed the Luisen Church under guard during the church service
>while Armstrong talked about his experiences with Scientology. Gandow
>says he observed a second vehicle on the autobahn with at least three
>occupants who were following and photographing the same time the first
>was. The clergyman is certain that those men also had something to do with
>Scientology.
>
>The Scientology Church Germany said the incident with its member was
>apparently woven into a "James Bond fantasy." The man was said to have be
>"held accountable according the the church's internal disciplinary
>system."
Promoted, eh?
> The church service in the Luisen church was simply visited by a
>Berlin member of Scientology, and the woman was in charge of "local public
>affairs work and legal interests."
It's always amazed me how much Scientology is interested in the law.
> Gandow was reported to have said that
>the woman had something to do with the management of Scientology's OSA
>"intelligence service." The woman was said to have taken down every word
>at the church service.
>
>The Scientologists accused Gandow and Armstrong of gate-crashing the local
>"Scientology Mission" in Yekaterinburg while they were visiting Russia
>last December and stealing documents. Gandow said that was not what had
>happened, and that they had been invited in by the local Scientology board
>members and had not taken any papers with them.
These accusations are presumably the "public affairs" stuff they were
talking about above.
> - the above is not a literal translation
> - for non-commercial use only - visit http://cisar.org
>
>Does asking questions prove you're more intelligent?
I saw
many people
reduced to
incoherent babbling,
stripping off clothes,
crawling around on the ground,
banging heads, limbs and other body parts
against furniture and walls,
barking,
losing all sense of one's identity
and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists
posting on the Internet every few days,
we'll just run the SP's right off the system.
It will be quite simple, actually.
--Elaine Siegel, OSA INT (1996)
Case 5/BTLA/SP1/BAD
KSJ
(And, BTW: Xenu Xenu Xenu!)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson wrote:
Beverly,
do You now understand what I wrote about Black PR?
It seems, You are in a situation, where You can't choose Your
defenders. So have fun with Diane, if You like.
Truth and friendship must be elsewhere.
TG
Keith Henson
snip
>
>They have this common practice of following people around, and
>thankfully at least all of this is being laid down in a history
>via reporting to the NG of how much it is done.
>
>Keith Henson has been followed around a lot.
>
>Quite a while back the report was made of how both he and
>Grady Ward were followed. Of course, trying to outrun them,
>or make a game of it . . .
>
>is just as stupid on the part of the followee as it is on
>the part of the follower.
Bev, I have been followed dozens of times--some of them in a very
threatening way. So has Brent Stone and Gregg Hagglund. Read this
one or some of their stories and let me know what you suggest when the
cops will not help.
http://scn.martinobrien.com/ABUSE/KRASEL/COS/BIASED/BIASED32.HTM#3
There is a long evolutionary aversion to being followed because that
was very often a precursor step to being attacked. Being followed is
a threat even if you are not attacked.
Keith Henson
roger gonnet
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
3e33196c...@news.bway.net...
Could you remind us how you make money defending crime, Diane?
(Take it a way or the other!)
r
roger gonnet
"Keith Henson" <hkhe...@rogers.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3e350f6a...@news2.lightlink.com...
It's even a harrasment charge if you can prove it - at least here.
r
>
> Keith Henson
Shy David
<german_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Trimmed)
> would want to carry out these orders against Armstrong in Germany in
> accordance with international law. It was also intended to take legal
> action against him here in Germany to prohibit him from claiming that the
> Scientology was out to get him.
Uh, um.... let's get this straight. The Scientology crime syndicate
was out get get Armstrong to prevent him from telling people the
Scientology crime syndicate is out to get him.
Makes perfect Hubbard sense to me!
> Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
> Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
> vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from Brandenburg
> to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
> Armstrong.
Rev Gandow and Armstrong should probably be glad the Scientology goon
didn't have a rifle.
----
http://www.norahjones.com
http://narconon-exposed.org
Greg Bashaw ended his life just like Scientology's founder L Ron Hubbard's
son had 25 years earlier. The police found a suicide note in his hotel room.
It said simply, 'Goodbye [son], you were a good buddy. Love dad.'
Joe's Garage
....
>
> The Scientologists accused Gandow and Armstrong of gate-crashing the local
> "Scientology Mission" in Yekaterinburg while they were visiting Russia
> last December and stealing documents. Gandow said that was not what had
> happened, and that they had been invited in by the local Scientology board
> members and had not taken any papers with them.
Compare Scientology's claims with the pictures in the Scientology
mission in Yekaterinburg:
http://
www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/media/russia/ekaterinburg-anniversary-tour.html
or possibly
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/media/russia/ekaterinburg-anniversary-tour.html
Joe Cisar http://cisar.org
The Press and Public Relations Policies of Layfayette Ronald Hubbard
http://www.xenu.net/archive/thesis/cisar-home.html
To all those on ARS who think that the wolf always comes to the door
wearing the same disguise, I say go read some history ... Bob Minton
Thomas Gandow
"Shy David" <deser...@RE-MOVEhotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3e34...@news2.lightlink.com...
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:00:47 -0500, EuroCult Report
> <german_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Trimmed)
>
> > would want to carry out these orders against Armstrong in Germany in
> > accordance with international law. It was also intended to take legal
> > action against him here in Germany to prohibit him from claiming that
the
> > Scientology was out to get him.
>
> Uh, um.... let's get this straight. The Scientology crime syndicate
> was out get get Armstrong to prevent him from telling people the
> Scientology crime syndicate is out to get him.
>
> Makes perfect Hubbard sense to me!
>
> > Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
> > Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
> > vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from
Brandenburg
> > to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
> > Armstrong.
>
> Rev Gandow and Armstrong should probably be glad the Scientology goon
> didn't have a rifle.
>
We are glad, thankfull and alive!
TG
Beverly Rice
> Beverly Rice wrote:
> > EuroCult Report wrote:
> >>Last Sunday Gandow and Armstrong were tailed by at least two cars, said
> >>Gandow, to a church service in the Luisen Church in Charlottenburg. His
> >>vehicle was closely approached by one of them on the way from Brandenburg
> >>to Berlin. The driver swerved erratically while photographing Gandow and
> >>Armstrong.
> > Yep, this is standard practice by the Co$. It has been done many
> > times to many critics. Here is an example caught on film:
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard13.html
> > On this page, you can see where one Co$ persuer actually created a
> > minor accident in the parking lot with the German file crew they
> > were "following":
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard14.html
> > Here the Co$ follows and watches again, which is a well-known
> > and not surprising scientology staple:
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard15.html
> >>They also placed the Luisen Church under guard during the church service
> >>while Armstrong talked about his experiences with Scientology. Gandow
> >>says he observed a second vehicle on the autobahn with at least three
> >>occupants who were following and photographing the same time the first
> >>was. The clergyman is certain that those men also had something to do with
> >>Scientology.
> > Of course they had something to do with scientology, they were
> > working for the Co$, and following and photographing which is
> > standard procedure.
> >
> > But I think it is funny that scientology obliged by playing the
> > game with Gandow.
> > Knowing how pan-determinism goes . . .
> > of course the announcement Gandow placed on ars and elsewhere that
> > he was going to do an "anti-scientology" (to use the phrase from
> > Stacy Brooks) "sermon" and prayer . . .
> > but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
> > knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
> > expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
> > photographing . . .
> > It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
> > and then crying about being burned.
> Are You kidding or are You really starting here to defend
> Scientology, Beverly?
Follow context. I am not defending Co$, Co$ has a complete
~HISTORY~ of following people around, and it is both wrong
~AND~ stupid.
I'm talking about a little game being played here, and a great
PR op for media attention and mention. I know that Co$ isn't
the only player that looks for that type of opportunity.
I call it on the Co$ when they pull it, and I can call it on
others when I see it there, too.
Anybody who has been following Co$ for a while understands
that Co$ following people, tailing them, taking down license
#'s etc is . . .
~STANDARD PRACTICE~ . . . like breathing for the Co$.
Now, anyone the purports to be and "expert" on the Co$ will
of course ~KNOW~ that Co$ tails people, and especially if Co$
is aware that they are going to be somewhere to speak ~publicly~
about the Co$ . . . and are made even more aware of it by
well-placed announcements.
Co$ is just as foolish to do what is expected of them at a
time when it was expected so that it in turn ~could~ be
made in to a newsworthy item.
They are just as stupid to do this . . . as an "expert" is
not to of course ~know~ that they will.
> Are You really so stupid?
No, but you are.
> A sunday service is always a public event.
> Of course it was announced to and in berlin medias.
And on the NG, just to make sure Co$ wouldn't miss it. I
understand that the game of cat and mouse is two-sided.
> > But they ~did~ get scientology to take the bait and to oblige
> > with the known and expected ~response~.
> Does this mean, the victim is responsible for the attack?
No, there was no "attack", you were followed just as standard
procedure by Co$ for over the last several decades.
> > Seriously, there was no need for the tailing and photographing.
> > They knew who was in the car,
> it was Gerry Armstrong....
Of course it was.
> > they knew where the car was
> > going, and they knew what was going to be "preached" about.
> You are making the same "" as the O.SA, without really knowing,
> what was preached.
> Beverly, believe me, it is very easy to become an O.SA tool.
It is very easy to become a "tool" of ~anyone~, now, isn't it.
Co$ isn't the only one that does that. Anytime anyone is running
a game . . . "tools" become important.
One type of "tool" ~here~ is to lay out the intimidation by "critics"
and/or "ex-members" of equating to "the group" that anyone that speaks
out or disagrees with or questions or points to things of note as being
"OSA" or "tools of OSA" . . .
just as Co$ lays out the intimidation of equating to their "group"
that anyone that speaks out or disagrees with or quetions or
points to things of note as being "PTS" or "SP's".
Guess what? That doesn't work with me, so call me OSA, "tool"
or anything else you can grab out of your "Gerry's bag of tricks" . . .
Not "tricks" to it . . . just follow the exact same game and
methods of the Co$, but just on the other side of the fence
with different players . . .
game is the same.
> > That fact alone demonstrates that there is no other purpose
> > than intimidation . . .
> > and of course Gerry and Gandow were ~NOT~ intimidated,
> Wherefrom do You know that?
From Gerry's part, that his current livlihood, and his future
plans ~depend~ on being a "victim of the Co$" . . .
and also knowing his covertness and his cunning . . .
as well as his desire for attention in this area.
I'm savvy to the groundwork laid out about almost six years
ago . . . VWD, BTW.
> > but
> > simply receiving the hoped for outcome that would further
> > an agenda to prove what is already provable . . .
> the victim is guilty.
No, there is no "victim", but it sure is necessary to keep using
that word.
> > Co$ is an abusive, harssive organization that will attempt
> > to continually use intimidtion towards those they have labelled
> > as enemies.
This statement of mine is accurate.
> > BTW, might I add, Co$ is also a fraud, and lies and openly
> > practices deception, and that is a provable statement.
This statement of mine is also accurate.
> > If Co$ wants to continue to foot-bullet themselves and to be
> > played so easily . . .
> > then it is a good thing that they continue to get foot-bulleted.
And as I state, they will continue to get foot-bulleted because
one area that they ~ARE~ absolutely, 100% dependable to follow
through on ~IS~ their use of intimidation.
> > I am very thankful that Co$ is their own worst enemy by being
> > doomed to follow actions that bring them nothing but yet more
> > negative publicity.
> > I do believe that Miscavige ~MUST~ suffer from a very severe case
> > of coprophilia, because he never fails to find a way to step in
> > it.
> I am really, really desillusioned about You...
That statement has no effect on me . . . .
that is your problem to deal with . . .
I never set about to create an "illusion" to your or anybody else
in the first place.
I am not the "illusionist" here.
ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
Beverly
Beverly Rice
> Diane Richardson wrote:
> > Gandow's as much a professional victim of Scientology as his buddy
> > Gerry Armstrong(TM) is. What a sordid way to earn a living.
> Beverly,
> do You now understand what I wrote about Black PR?
I understand a lot of things.
I don't understand why you and others have let Diane become
such a power to have what she says to be feared.
> It seems, You are in a situation, where You can't choose Your
> defenders. So have fun with Diane, if You like.
Contrary to what you are trying to insinuate, I don't communicate
with Diane, and don't depend on her, you or anyone else to "have
fun" with.
Please don't try to manipulate what I have to say, or think
you can manipulate what others will think about what people
say . . .
by the use of trying to insinuate an alignment to OSA, Diane,
or any other boogey-man you think will work.
> Truth and friendship must be elsewhere.
Friendship ~IS~ being "truthful".
And then again, sometimes being "truthful" can cost you
friends that weren't really friends anyway . . .
only people that patted you on the back as long as you would
sing their song and repeat their lines.
Thomas Gandow
Beverly Rice wrote:
Now I know about You.
You don't know wht really happened. But You repeat, what OSA is
writing in it's DA package.
Be carefull: This could be a matter of copyright.
This time, You sound not like quoting OSA directly,
but much like Diane Richardson.
TG
Stacy.Brooks-Rinder
> Beverly Rice wrote:
> >
> I am really, really desillusioned about You...
>
> TG
Big deal. Who in the world except you and your scam-artist fraulein,
Gerry, gives a fuck, Grabdough?
Stacy.Brooks-Rinder
> Thomas Gandow wrote:
>
> > I am really, really desillusioned about You...
>
> That statement has no effect on me . . . .
>
> that is your problem to deal with . . .
>
> I never set about to create an "illusion" to your or anybody else
> in the first place.
>
> I am not the "illusionist" here.
Right on, Beverly. This phony "minister" has the integrity of wet
toilet paper. Ignore the lout....
Stacy.Brooks-Rinder
> Beverly Rice wrote:
>
> >>>and of course Gerry and Gandow were ~NOT~ intimidated,
> >
> >>Wherefrom do You know that?
> >
> > From Gerry's part, that his current livlihood, and his future
> > plans ~depend~ on being a "victim of the Co$" . . .
>
> This time, You sound not like quoting OSA directly,
> but much like Diane Richardson.
> TG
I'm sorry that I'm not in Germany right now, Grabdough. I'd rip your
balls off and feed them to you in your dog bowl.
Beverly Rice
>
> Beverly Rice wrote:
>
> > Thomas Gandow wrote:
> >
> >>Beverly Rice wrote:
RE: being followed in your car by Co$
> >>>Yep, this is standard practice by the Co$. It has been done many
> >>>times to many critics. Here is an example caught on film:
> >>>http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard13.html
> >>>http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard14.html
> >>>http://www.xs4all.nl/~bogie/dunkle_seite/ard15.html
> >>>of course the announcement Gandow placed on ars and elsewhere that
> >>>he was going to do an "anti-scientology" (to use the phrase from
> >>>Stacy Brooks) "sermon" and prayer . . .
> >>>but bait set out to make absolutely sure the Co$ knew about it,
> >>>knowing full well that the outcome ~would~ be for the traditional,
> >>>expected, and ~not~ surprising tailing of vehicles and
> >>>photographing . . .
> >>>It is like putting your hand on a hot stove burner . . .
> >>>and then crying about being burned.
> >>Are You kidding or are You really starting here to defend
> >>Scientology, Beverly?
> > Follow context. I am not defending Co$, Co$ has a complete
> > ~HISTORY~ of following people around, and it is both wrong
> > ~AND~ stupid.
> > I'm talking about a little game being played here, and a great
> > PR op for media attention and mention. I know that Co$ isn't
> > the only player that looks for that type of opportunity.
> > I call it on the Co$ when they pull it, and I can call it on
> > others when I see it there, too.
> > Anybody who has been following Co$ for a while understands
> > that Co$ following people, tailing them, taking down license
> > #'s etc is . . .
> > ~STANDARD PRACTICE~ . . . like breathing for the Co$.
> > Co$ is just as foolish to do what is expected of them at a
> > time when it was expected so that it in turn ~could~ be
> > made in to a newsworthy item.
> >
> > They are just as stupid to do this . . . as an "expert" is
> > not to of course ~know~ that they will.
> >>A sunday service is always a public event.
> >>Of course it was announced to and in berlin medias.
> > And on the NG, just to make sure Co$ wouldn't miss it. I
> > understand that the game of cat and mouse is two-sided.
> >>>But they ~did~ get scientology to take the bait and to oblige
> >>>with the known and expected ~response~.
> >>Does this mean, the victim is responsible for the attack?
> > No, there was no "attack", you were followed just as standard
> > procedure by Co$ for over the last several decades.
> Now I know about You.
Oh trust me, you don't at all "know about" me.
> You don't know wht really happened. But You repeat, what OSA is
> writing in it's DA package.
I haven't read OSA'a "DA package". Re-read what I wrote, and
understand. More clues will be given out since you really don't
want to see what you don't want to see.
> Be carefull: This could be a matter of copyright.
I will add it to my collection of Ava and Kobra-grams. Oh
wait, you were trying to make a "point".
> >>You are making the same "" as the O.SA, without really knowing,
> >>what was preached.
> >>Beverly, believe me, it is very easy to become an O.SA tool.
> > It is very easy to become a "tool" of ~anyone~, now, isn't it.
> > Co$ isn't the only one that does that. Anytime anyone is running
> > a game . . . "tools" become important.
Make sure to re-read these next two paragraphs, you are still
following a pattern that has no effect other than the mirror
image of Co$'s tactics.
> > One type of "tool" ~here~ is to lay out the intimidation by "critics"
> > and/or "ex-members" of equating to "the group" that anyone that speaks
> > out or disagrees with or questions or points to things of note as being
> > "OSA" or "tools of OSA" . . .
> > just as Co$ lays out the intimidation of equating to their "group"
> > that anyone that speaks out or disagrees with or quetions or
> > points to things of note as being "PTS" or "SP's".
> > Guess what? That doesn't work with me, so call me OSA, "tool"
> > or anything else you can grab out of your "Gerry's bag of tricks" . . .
> > Not "tricks" to it . . . just follow the exact same game and
> > methods of the Co$, but just on the other side of the fence
> > with different players . . .
> > game is the same.
> >>>and of course Gerry and Gandow were ~NOT~ intimidated,
> >>Wherefrom do You know that?
> > From Gerry's part, that his current livlihood, and his future
> > plans ~depend~ on being a "victim of the Co$" . . .
> This time, You sound not like quoting OSA directly,
> but much like Diane Richardson.
You mean, your "boogey-man".
Sorry, but I didn't get that concept from anything written or stated
by Diane. Maybe you should have a little talk with "The Prophet".
Perhaps you are being "Bobbed".
Thomas Gandow
Beverly Rice wrote:
> Thomas Gandow wrote:
>>Beverly Rice wrote:
>>>Thomas Gandow wrote:
> Perhaps you are being "Bobbed".
I don't know what You really mean by this.
But what I have seen is, that to be "bobbed" could mean,
that someone really helped You.
I very much appreciate to see selfless support.
You would not oppose selfless support.
But I also very much oppose the policy and practice of fair game.
What is Your personal view and position to fair game?
TG
Diane Richardson
<gan...@dialogzentrum.de> wrote:
>
>
>Beverly Rice wrote:
>
>> Thomas Gandow wrote:
>>>Beverly Rice wrote:
>>>>Thomas Gandow wrote:
>
>> Perhaps you are being "Bobbed".
>
>
>I don't know what You really mean by this.
>But what I have seen is, that to be "bobbed" could mean,
>that someone really helped You.
Have you been "bobbed" Gandow? Why are you so
determined to remind others about receiving money
from Minton when you twist, turn and dodge rather
than admit that you yourself have accepted money
from Robert S. Minton, Jr.
Just how much money has Minton give YOU, Grabdough?
>I very much appreciate to see selfless support.
>You would not oppose selfless support.
Why do you feel justified in talking to others about money
they've received from Minton when you hide your own
financial dealings with him?
Are you really that ashamed of accepting his "selfless support"?
If you are, then why did you accept his money?
>But I also very much oppose the policy and practice of fair game.
>What is Your personal view and position to fair game?
I'll answer that. I dislike fair game, ESPECIALLY when it
comes from someone who is an ordained minister. If there
is one person in the world whose behavior turns people
away from Christianity, it is you.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Beverly Rice
> Beverly Rice wrote:
> > Perhaps you are being "Bobbed".
> I don't know what You really mean by this.
Used, taken advantage of for what you can provide, conned
while having good intentions.
Yes, yes, before a barrage hits on that, I ~know~ Bob has
been a "bad boy" in many cases . . .
but I know from talking to him often before he got too
caught up in the "movement", or what ever you choose to call
it . . .
that he wanted to expose Co$ and to help people get out
and have a place to go. That was his heart that I saw
when he was still fairly much in the background.
Yes, and I know, irony of life . . .
look at the position he is in now . . . yeh, I got all that.
> But what I have seen is, that to be "bobbed" could mean,
> that someone really helped You.
Well, Bob has helped me out when I wass in dire financial
need, and I am happy to acknowledge that.
Has he helped you? Maybe getting a little project or two
going?
> I very much appreciate to see selfless support.
> You would not oppose selfless support.
No, I would not oppose "selfless" support, you are correct.
> But I also very much oppose the policy and practice of fair game.
So do I. I have been pretty clear on this from the beginning
of my first posts to ars.
> What is Your personal view and position to fair game?
I don't like "Fair Game" from either the Co$, or those who
claim to oppose the Co$.
I also don't like the same manipulative tactic that the Co$
uses to silence people's right to question where they see
wrong . . .
or to openly disagree with what ~one~ individual or "group" of
individuals feel should not be disagreed with . . .
or to state points regarding issues they feel are worthy of
discussion no matter how "entheta" another party feels the
issues or speech may be . . .
by using accusations of calling them OSA, or "tools" or OSA,
or whatever boogey-man name you or another person can come
up with that is supposed to be seen as "distasteful" to the
"group".
Okay, your turn:
What is your personal view of fair game?
What is your personal view of keeping a website of supposed
"enemies"?
What is your personal view of keeping a file, or "collection"
of a person's most intimate secrets . . . and then calling
up that person and making sure that they ~know~ you have
kept a "collection" of these "records fraudulently obtained
by the creation of a relationship of "trust"?
Also, you are ~SO~ in to seeing "attacks" all over . . .
What is your personal view of "attacks", especially when they
are "covert", being used on a poster regarding a deep emotional
issue in an attempt to cave in that poster?
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:28:05 +0100, Thomas Gandow
> <gan...@dialogzentrum.de> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Beverly Rice wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thomas Gandow wrote:
>>>
>>>>Beverly Rice wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Thomas Gandow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>Perhaps you are being "Bobbed".
>>>
>>
>>I don't know what You really mean by this.
>>But what I have seen is, that to be "bobbed" could mean,
>>that someone really helped You.
>>
>
> Have you been "bobbed" Gandow? Why are you so
> determined to remind others about receiving money
> from Minton when you twist, turn and dodge rather
> than admit that you yourself have accepted money
> from Robert S. Minton, Jr.
>
> Just how much money has Minton give YOU, Grabdough?
Just how much has O.SA give to You, Ciane?
TG
Thomas Gandow
Diane Richardson wrote:
This is no copyright infringement against O.SA or Scientology, even if this is the same concept.
Ciane Richardson seems much more working in concert with them by
using the same tune.
TG
>
Diane Richardson
<gan...@dialogzentrum.de> wrote:
I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA, Grabdough.
How much money has Minton given to you?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
<gan...@dialogzentrum.de> wrote:
>
>
>Diane Richardson wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:28:05 +0100, Thomas Gandow
>> <gan...@dialogzentrum.de> wrote:
>> If there
>> is one person in the world whose behavior turns people
>> away from Christianity, it is you.
>>
>>
>> Diane Richardson
>> ref...@bway.net
>
>
>This is no copyright infringement against O.SA or Scientology, even if this is the same concept.
Idiot, you have no idea what copyright is all about. I wonder if
you'br always been this stupid, or has your obsession with Scientology
destroyed a significant portion of your brain cells.
>Ciane Richardson seems much more working in concert with them by
>using the same tune.
YOU are the one working in concert with OSA, Grabdough. And you're
too dumb to realize it.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Tilman Hausherr
wrote in <3e3a707...@news.bway.net>:
>I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA
Wow you are dumb. You're doing this disgusting work for free.
Starshadow
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:48:58 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
> wrote in <3e3a707...@news.bway.net>:
>
>
>>I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA
>
>
> Wow you are dumb. You're doing this disgusting work for free.
>
---
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow KoX, Sp4, and now on a "cult critic's" hate page
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/usenet/goon-squad-follies.html
for the High Crime of Disagreeing with self-made cult victim Gerry
Armstrong and Caroline Letkeman.
For the real truth about cults go to www.xenu.net
Diane Richardson
<til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:48:58 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
>wrote in <3e3a707...@news.bway.net>:
>
>>I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA
>
>Wow you are dumb. You're doing this disgusting work for free.
I do not work for OSA anymore than you do, Tilman Hausherr.
When it comes to doing disgusting work for free, you take the
prize with your defense of the indefensible behavior of the Rev.
Grabdough and his Prophet[TM] Gerry Armstrong.
You have become what you fight.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
anon...@anonymous.poster.comm
<ref...@bway.net> says...
>
>I do not work for OSA anymore than you do, Tilman Hausherr.
>When it comes to doing disgusting work for free, you take the
>prize with your defense of the indefensible behavior of the Rev.
>Grabdough and his Prophet[TM] Gerry Armstrong.
Standard dead agent/black PR line.
>You have become what you fight.
A thinly veiled rewording of "what you resist you become" which is
a well-known favorite concept of Hubbard.
>Diane Richardson
>ref...@bway.net
Diane Richardson
wrote:
>In article <3e3d5fb3...@news.bway.net>, Diane Richardson
><ref...@bway.net> says...
>>
>>I do not work for OSA anymore than you do, Tilman Hausherr.
>>When it comes to doing disgusting work for free, you take the
>>prize with your defense of the indefensible behavior of the Rev.
>>Grabdough and his Prophet[TM] Gerry Armstrong.
>
>Standard dead agent/black PR line.
That's exactly what Tilman Hausherr is engaging in, Anonymous
Coward.
>>You have become what you fight.
>
>A thinly veiled rewording of "what you resist you become" which is
>a well-known favorite concept of Hubbard.
It's a concept, like many others, that Hubbard stole from better
minds. Too bad you've limited your world to what Hubbard
wrote. You're missing out on a whole world of knowledge.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Shy David
<til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:48:58 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
> wrote in <3e3a707...@news.bway.net>:
>> I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA
> Wow you are dumb. You're doing this disgusting work for free.
LOL! Mark Twaint couldn't have done a better followup.
> --
> Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
> til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de
>
> Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
>
> Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
> The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html
Starshadow
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:46:43 +0100, Tilman Hausherr
> <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:48:58 GMT, ref...@bway.net (Diane Richardson)
>>wrote in <3e3a707...@news.bway.net>:
>
>
>>>I have received ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from OSA
>
>
>>Wow you are dumb. You're doing this disgusting work for free.
>
>
> LOL! Mark Twaint couldn't have done a better followup.
>
whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world. He had class and
intelligence.
anon...@anonymous.poster.comm
>
> Sam Clemens wouldn't accuse everyone he disagreed with of being
>whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world. He had class and
>intelligence.
Of course not, stupid. OSA didn't exist in his day.
sure
wrote...
Duh, sorta why she said, "whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world", try
to follow along, ok?
anon...@anonymous.poster.comm
You're just as stupid as Starshadow. OSA is a part of Scientology.
There was no equivalent in Clemens' world.
Idiot.
Diane Richardson
wrote:
Guess you've never heard of the LDS and its Danites. Looks like
you're the idiot.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
sure
>
>In article <3e3d...@news2.lightlink.com>, su...@desinet.net says...
>>
>>In article <b1kjk...@drn.newsguy.com>, anon...@anonymous.poster.comm
>>wrote...
>>>
>>>In article <3e3d...@news2.lightlink.com>, Starshadow says...
>>>>
>>>> Sam Clemens wouldn't accuse everyone he disagreed with of being
>>>>whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world. He had class and
>>>>intelligence.
>>>
>>>Of course not, stupid. OSA didn't exist in his day.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Duh, sorta why she said, "whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world",
try
>>to follow along, ok?
>
>You're just as stupid as Starshadow. OSA is a part of Scientology.
>There was no equivalent in Clemens' world.
>
>Idiot.
Guess you are who we all thought you were.
sure
>
>In article <3e3d...@news2.lightlink.com>, su...@desinet.net says...
>>
>>In article <b1kjk...@drn.newsguy.com>, anon...@anonymous.poster.comm
>>wrote...
>>>
>>>In article <3e3d...@news2.lightlink.com>, Starshadow says...
>>>>
>>>> Sam Clemens wouldn't accuse everyone he disagreed with of being
>>>>whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world. He had class and
>>>>intelligence.
>>>
>>>Of course not, stupid. OSA didn't exist in his day.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Duh, sorta why she said, "whatever equivilant of OSA existed in his world",
try
>>to follow along, ok?
>
>You're just as stupid as Starshadow. OSA is a part of Scientology.
>There was no equivalent in Clemens' world.
>
>Idiot.
You think OSA/INT is novel/unique? There is no historical
equivalent to their paranoia? You live in a shallow world,
Starshadow
Oh, I see, in your wierd universe, anonymous coward, OSA invented secret
operatives.
Apparently you never heard of all the secret societies and cults that
were rampant when Clemens was alive. That's okay, just go do some
remedial reading and maybe you'll be a bit more enlightened. I'd
recommend you search for some good books of history of that era.
Not that you have the capacity to learn or understand.
Idiot.