As you clearly DON'T know, "slander" is usually the appropriate term for
a defamatory statement or implication conveyed by a transient medium
(other than a public broadcast). Until the law relating to defamation
and the internet is clarified, Sheila's choice of terminology no more
justifies your sneers than any of your other targets in this newsgroup.
>Nonetheless, there is an old expression to the
>effect that the ultimate defense to a charge of defamation is *truth*.
>And, thus far, no school which I have accused of being a degree mill has
>had the gumption to sue me for my comments - nor have any of the
>hundred-plus schools for which I used the term in my book "Name It &
>Frame It" - despite my having invited them to do so, especially after
>receiving initial litigation threats from some 50 schools.
Are you worth suing, financially? If the content of your much-plugged
book is as accurate as your postings to this newsgroup, I don't suppose
you will have earned a fortune from the sales.
>
>I can't help observing, however, that the term "everyone" is a bit
>broad, since I can only think of four newsgroup participants who have
>ever flamed me, and all four have been affiliated with schools that are
>unaccredited. I have never been flamed by accredited schools, graduates
>of accredited schools, accreditation advocates, or persons who have been
>tipped off by degree mills - merely by those who hold unaccredited
>degrees, or persons who run schools I have accused of being degree
>mills. In short, I must confess to being quite satisfied with my track
>record of flamers versus fans (though, quite frankly, I'm not seeking
>either).
Since you apparantly do not categorise my past responses as flames, may
we take it that you acknowledge them to be fair comment?
--
Marshall Rice
>>>As you know, Sheila, "slander" is a legal term which indicates verbal
>or spoken defamation. (The correct term for written defamation is
>"libel," but for the purpose of our discussion, I'll consider that a
>matter of semantics.) <<
You are correct here Steve. I was in the wrong mental set, as I think of
this as talking to each other. *Thank you* for considering it a matter
of semantics - I would hate to think what would happen to me if you did
not forgive my error. <g>
>Nonetheless, there is an old expression to the
>effect that the ultimate defense to a charge of defamation is *truth*.
>And, thus far, no school which I have accused of being a degree mill has
>had the gumption to sue me for my comments - nor have any of the
>hundred-plus schools for which I used the term in my book "Name It &
>Frame It" - despite my having invited them to do so, especially after
>receiving initial litigation threats from some 50 schools.
Steve, the fact that they have not sued you does not mean you are right.
It means that we have a legal system that makes suing you almost
impossible to be financially worthwhile.
Is this a new definition of truth? A statement that does not get
challanged in court. "If I don't get sued I must be telling the truth."
I can't wait for the next edition of the Webster-Levicoff Dictionary.
A MORE significant issue to examine is HOW many of these schools have been
closed down for not operating in a lawful (synonym of legitimate) manner?
Your twisting of the language does little to support the value of all of
your accredited degrees.
Rita's honest descriptions of herself and her degrees makes me believe
that perhaps CCU does a better job producing PhD's.
-Sheila
>
> <'o / o
> ()-^ ---c-()>
> / > < \
>
> (In a spirit of collegial humor - Sheila and me.)
>
>
I did get a chuckle here, but I don't think we are just having a little
joust here. You are defaming schools and I have ended up defending
schools that I am not a champion of. I do not think that an unaccredited
degree should be a first choice. It took me YEARS to decide to go with an
unaccredited degree. And while I am VERY happy that I did, and the degree
serves me perfectly, it is not my intention to be a champion of
non-accredited shools. However, I can not allow you to state your
opinions as facts about any subject.
So if this is all done in humor and jest on your part, please remember it
is much more serious than that.
-Sheila
English common law. There is no such thing as "British" law,
"Professor"; Britain encompasses several jurisdictions and Scots law, in
particular, has a substantial civil law element. I had always thought
that America was a common-law and not (with the partial exception of
Louisiana) civil law country.
>My position is that since the
>newsgroup consists of written transmissions, libel is the correct term.
You appear to have developed misconstruction into an art form. My point
was that "slander" is arguably also correct and that Sheila's use of it
did not warrant criticism.
>Of course, my perspective also comes from six years of serving as a law
>professor.
What happened?
>You're welcome to disagree, since I find you quite
>insignificant.
>
> > Are you worth suing, financially? If the content of your much-
> > plugged book is as accurate as your postings to this newsgroup, I
> > don't suppose you will have earned a fortune from the sales.
>
>You obviously haven't read my "much-plugged book." And of those who
>have, no one has raised questions about its accuracy. And you're
>still insignificant.
>
> > Since you apparantly do not categorise my past responses as flames,
> > may we take it that you acknowledge them to be fair comment?
>
>Actually, Marshall, I don't remember ever seeing your past responses.
>In fact, this is the first message of yours that I recall making its
>merry way to CompuServe. (Remember, not all networks catch all Usenet
>posts.)
>
>I had heard from a third party that you allegedly put a gay-oriented
>flame on the net about me, but since I didn't see it, I saw no need for
>response. Nonetheless, any comments that I have made about others has
>been predicated upon my knowing who they are, what credentials they
>hold, etc.
It is irrelevant to me who YOU are, or what credentials you do or do not
hold. What concern me are your unnecessary and unjustified attacks on
honest, sincere and decent individuals, whose comments I find
interesting and informative, whose opinions I respect and whose input
into this newsgroup I am grateful for. I do not wish to be deprived of
the benefit of such comments and opinions because of the possibility
that the authors may be disinclined to subject themselves to your
vituperations.
>I know nothing about you and, unless you'd care to enlighten
>the group, you're *still* insignificant. Sorry, old boy, I don't have
>enough information to insult you, so I must simply dismiss you.
>
>If you would like the courtesy of future response, feel free to e-mail
>me a copy of your future posts in case they are not transmitted to the
>CompuServe network. At which time, of course, I'll be delighted to send
>a humorous flame or two your way. In the course of doing so, you might
>want to cover the classic four questions:
>Who are you?
A reader of, and occasional contributor to, this newsgroup.
>Who were you?
Someone, inter alia, once able to enjoy this newsgroup without having to
wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>Who do you hope to be?
Someone, inter alia, once again able to enjoy this newsgroup without
having to wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>And do you really matter?
Who knows or cares? Not me.
--
Marshall Rice
Anyone who is even thinking about a moderated newsgroup is
most likely ignorant of the work load to the moderator.
Dick
>Pardon the term, dear one, but in the world of psychology, this is known
>as "mind fucking."
Do we have to put up with stuff like this?
RW Hannu
>first place. Want to talk about red flags? When a person claims a
>doctorate, the very first thing I do is run them through UMI. If they
>don't show up, *that* raises a red flag, since UMI is the standard
>publishing form for *all* legitimately accredited programs, and
>publication by UMI *never* precludes publication by another publisher.
I beg to differ here. I don't think that UMI is the standard
publishing form adopted by all legitimately accredited programs. In
Asia, many top accredited (recognized and legitimate) universities do
not make it compulsory for graduates to publish in UMI. Furthermore,
many graduates at Master's degree level do not adopt any specific
styles in writing their final projects! Final projects are mostly
group effort as opposed to individual's own research and writing.
Perhaps, you should come to Asia to expose the practice of accredited
universities for your next book. You will find that many accredited
universities in USA, Australia and UK are giving exemptions or credit
transfers to students who have completed studies at non-university
parallel institutions. However, at some unaccredited universities,
students are required to prove their knowledge by taking challenge
exams or portfolio assessment.
In my opinion, you lacked the knowledge and understanding of how
unaccredited universities operate. Your opinions attacked not only on
state-approved unaccredited institutions of higher learning but also
attacked on people (faculty advisors, mentors, educational
administrators etc) who hold accredited creditials involving in
unaccredited institutions of higher learning.
Furthermore, what qualifies you to qualify state-approved institutions
as degree mills?
Moorshidee B A Kassim
kas...@singnet.com.sg
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My Opinions, No Book To Sell!
> Sheila Danzig <shei...@aol.com> writes:
> > Your twisting of the language does little to support the value of
> > all of your accredited degrees.
>
> Pardon the term, dear one, but in the world of psychology, this is known
> as "mind fucking." (Don't blame me, campers, I didn't invent the term.)
> Also known as "projection," in which the person making the argument
> attempts to transfer the syndrome he or she exhibits to another person.
> You'll notice that I have never felt the need to defend my regionally
> accredited degrees, whereas you, Rita, Scott, and others here are
> *constantly* attempting to define your unaccredited degrees. Perhaps
> that says something to all of the prospective students who read our
> posts when seeking guidance for themselves.
Freudian typo: They're trying to _defend_ their unaccredited degrees.
But why do they feel the need to? Perhaps only because they're being
hounded about them so continuously. Because they're being _defined_
as the product of "degree mills" by various other posters.
If everybody turned around and quite bluntly criticised Steve's
degrees, for instance, he would defend them. We'd expect no less from
anyone.
And the prospective students reading the posts see quite positive
evaluations by graduates of a variety of prominent unaccredited schools,
which may be realistic. They also see a context (Steve) challenging
their unaccredited credentials at every opportunity to no end, which
is very realistic.
Jonathan Whatley <mailto:io...@interlog.com>
Moorshidee,
You asked Dr. Levicoff what his qualifications are. They appear elsewhere in
his postings, as do mine.
However, I could not find yours anywhere in your posts. What are they, and what
knowledge do you possess of American higher education? From another of your
posts I must assume your degrees are also unaccredited. Is this correct?
Dennis Huber
*****
>It is irrelevant to me who YOU are, or what credentials you do or do not
>hold. What concern me are your unnecessary and unjustified attacks on
>honest, sincere and decent individuals, whose comments I find
>interesting and informative, whose opinions I respect and whose input
>into this newsgroup I am grateful for. I do not wish to be deprived of
>the benefit of such comments and opinions because of the possibility
>that the authors may be disinclined to subject themselves to your
>vituperations.
>
Marshall,
First, here in America we have something called the "First Amendment." It
basically means, "I disagree with what you say but I'll fight to the death your
right to say it." Second, I would be surprised if you respected the comments
of *every* individual who has posted to this group (not including, of course,
Steve, whose comments I assume you you do not). I would also be surprised if
you thought the comments and opinions of *every* individual both interesting
and informative (again excluding's Steve's whose comments and opinionsl you
find neither interesting nor informative). Let's face it. There have been a few
posts by individuals who did not know what they were taking about. Third, I see
you are not so bothered by his vituperations that you are disinclined to post.
If others are, perhaps their arguments are too weak to withstand them.
>>Who are you?
>
>A reader of, and occasional contributor to, this newsgroup.
>
>>Who were you?
>
>Someone, inter alia, once able to enjoy this newsgroup without having to
>wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>
>>Who do you hope to be?
>
>Someone, inter alia, once again able to enjoy this newsgroup without
>having to wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>
>>And do you really matter?
>
>Who knows or cares? Not me.
>--
>Marshall Rice
Thanks for clearing that up, Marshall. However, I must add that I have not
found your posts to be without your share of egotistical and ill-informed
ranting either. I ignore it, however, and try to dig for something useful.
BTW, I recently advised you that your sig file far exceded the size
approved by netiquette. You could lose your CIS acct if people
complained. If you look in the abuse newsgroups you would learn that an
acceptable sig file used to be 4 lines but 6 is accepted by many.
Commercial services (like compuserve) enforce this more than the direct
accts. I am not complaining to anyone, but I just thought that if you
knew, you would NEVER want to break any rules. <g>
-Sheila
-- large text clipped--
> Yes, of *course* it's a joke!
>
> Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that the only people who can't
> seem to take a joke on this newsgroup are the ones who have graduated
> from *unaccredited* programs?
>
> ########################################################################
> # . : 0 .. . | #
> #`. . .. . | #
> # \`. : _|_ .. | #
> #\ \\`. ... . | .. | Eternal nothingness is OK #
> # \\\\`. .. . | if you're dressed for it. #
> >You obviously haven't read my "much-plugged book." And of those who
> >have, no one has raised questions about its accuracy. And you're
> >still insignificant.
I have read your book. I found some statements grossly innacurate, but
since they were not directed at me I did not question the accuracy here.
Nor will I. The book is of value, if one understands that Steve has
redefined degree mill and legitimate, and has made a few other similar
inaccurate statements.
You're no John Bear, Steve.
-Sheila Danzig
> I never argued that point, which would be about as valid as your
> argument from the Danzig Dictionary that if a school is not closed down,
> it must be legitimate. Truth stands on its own, validated by testimony
> from primary sources, many of which I have quoted in these posts.
Back to twisting scriptures, eh Steve. You have turned it into an art.
I have said that if it is LAWFUL it is by definition LEGITIMATE.
I know what both Lawful and Legitimate means and (unlike you) do NOT use
my own dictionary.
Since you refuse to learn the Miriam Webster definition, and continue to
attack me for using that definition I have decided not to discuss this
any longer. I urge you to write Miriam Webster and demand that the
definition is changed to suit your needs as your needs are all that
matter to you.
Steve also wrote:
> Pardon the term, dear one, but in the world of psychology, this is known
> as "mind fucking." (Don't blame me, campers, I didn't invent the term.)
That is totally uncalled for and disgusting. Having run out of anything
close to an arguement you resort to vulgarities. I have NEVER in quite
some time of reading this group seen that type of language used. And
you call yourself a REVERAND. And you call yourself a BIBLE expert. I
didn't invent the term either, but I certainly would never use it. I
doubt that there is one person in this group that would.
> You'll notice that I have never felt the need to defend my regionally
> accredited degrees, whereas you, Rita, Scott, and others here are
> *constantly* attempting to define your unaccredited degrees.
Perhaps given the quality of your posts, you should defend it. I have
NEVER defended my degree. Only stated its usefulness for me. Rita and
Scott have only replied to your attacks.
I suspect that Steve loves these attacks going on since they allow him
to reply with his giant sigfile that violates internet rules (one such
as Dennis or yourself, might even call the sig file not legitimate.)
Therefore, unless the subject changes, I will refrain from replying.
Steve is unwilling to do anything except attack others. If this were a
moderated group, I assue you that you would be thrown off.
-Sheila
Dick, I am speculating here. I'm going out on a limb. I'm just guessing.
But, I think Steve was making a joke.
Dennis
> And you call yourself a REVERAND.
What dictionary did that come from? <groan>
> Perhaps given the quality of your posts, you should defend it. I have
> NEVER defended my degree. Only stated its usefulness for me. Rita and
> Scott have only replied to your attacks.
Scott called ~me~ an "immature lack-wit" and a "jerk," and if I'm correct
his involvement in the AICS thread came about in response to someone
(Stephen Dowd?) canvassing for any AICS graduates who might have something
more to say on the acceptance of their degrees. How would Steve manage to
flame him before he posted?
Then again, if anyone could do it...
> I suspect that Steve loves these attacks going on since they allow him
> to reply with his giant sigfile that violates internet rules (one such
> as Dennis or yourself, might even call the sig file not legitimate.)
>
> Therefore, unless the subject changes, I will refrain from replying.
> Steve is unwilling to do anything except attack others. If this were a
> moderated group, I assue you that you would be thrown off.
Trust me: Signatures of above-average length are the very least of the
worries of any reasonable person responsible for moderating any online forum.
Steve has been willing to post quite a bit of factual information and other
fair comment, including, free of charge, extensive excerpts, informational
and editorial in nature, from his on-subject book.
Jonathan Whatley <mailto:io...@interlog.com>
I see. Is that the reason why you also have the Ku Klux Klan, Black
Panthers and Edward Kennedy?
In England, we have something called "decorum". That means, amongst
other things, occasinally keeping one's more extreme and/or offensive
views to oneself.
>Second, I would be surprised if you respected the comments
>of *every* individual who has posted to this group (not including, of course,
>Steve, whose comments I assume you you do not). I would also be surprised if
>you thought the comments and opinions of *every* individual both interesting
>and informative (again excluding's Steve's whose comments and opinionsl you
>find neither interesting nor informative). Let's face it. There have been a few
>posts by individuals who did not know what they were taking about.
I neither said, nor implied, anything to the contrary. I suggest you
read my posting again.
>Third, I see
>you are not so bothered by his vituperations that you are disinclined to post.
Not quite, although that point is fast approaching.
>If others are, perhaps their arguments are too weak to withstand them.
>
Or perhaps their distaste of "Dr" Levicoff and his overwhelming of this
newsgroup has simply exceeded their interest in the forum.
>
>>>Who are you?
>>
>>A reader of, and occasional contributor to, this newsgroup.
>>
>>>Who were you?
>>
>>Someone, inter alia, once able to enjoy this newsgroup without having to
>>wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>>
>>>Who do you hope to be?
>>
>>Someone, inter alia, once again able to enjoy this newsgroup without
>>having to wade through your ill-informed and egotistical ranting.
>>
>>>And do you really matter?
>>
>>Who knows or cares? Not me.
>>--
>>Marshall Rice
>
>
>Thanks for clearing that up, Marshall. However, I must add that I have not
>found your posts to be without your share of egotistical and ill-informed
>ranting either.
That is a matter of opinion. What is not, however, is that I offend
rather fewer people and take up condiserably less bandwidth doing it.
>I ignore it, however, and try to dig for something useful.
>
--
Marshall Rice
>Scott called ~me~ an "immature lack-wit" and a "jerk," and if I'm correct
>his involvement in the AICS thread came about in response to someone
>(Stephen Dowd?) canvassing for any AICS graduates who might have
something
>more to say on the acceptance of their degrees. How would Steve manage
to
>flame him before he posted?
I think John Wetsch asked for input from students or grads. I think that
my first response to him was cordial, but also contained what I thought
were the "hard questions" about AICS. He flamed me pretty bitterly, called
my questions "irrelevant" and used the typical tactic of accusing me of
flaming him first.
I have been critical of AICS/Chadwick and the others here in the past for
reasons of lack of a campus, their suspect operation in the state, and
their bogus "accreditation" - so that might be how I flamed him first. I
found our whole thread rather irritating, since it was Scott who
complained about lack of recognition of his degree and when we indicated
why that might be, he felt compelled to attack.
But it was pretty typical of the posts I see/e-mail I receive from
students in that group.
Steven B. Dowd
Hmmm. I think we probably agree on that.
>
> > Or perhaps their distaste of "Dr" Levicoff and his overwhelming
> > of this newsgroup has simply exceeded their interest in the
> > forum.
>
>As I have said in the past, Marshall, it's better to be talked about in
>vain than not at all.
We clearly differ in our needs and objectives.
>Inherent in each of my posts, however, is the
>message that prospective students should *always* be on the lookout for
>the possibility of being ripped off. If I can help prevent that from
>happening to one student, you can call me anything but late for dinner.
>
>A side note . . . I have always found it interesting that when people
>don't have anything to reach for in the bottom of the barrel, they
>either refer to me as "Dr." Levicoff (with the "Dr." in quotes, as if my
>own doctorate is questionable)
Your doctorate may not be questionable (at least in the U.S., or in
Britain, where it would be tolerated; in Germany or Japan it would be
regarded with amusement or contempt) however your use of it certainly
is.
Unless I am much mistaken, the doctorate you hold is in a field quite
unrelated to education and in the context of that subject and as the
"credential" as which you continually flaunt it, is as bogus as if you
had bought it from ULC.
>or "Mr." Levicoff (as if I hold no
>doctorate at all). From an ego perspective, that doesn't concern me,
>since I still prefer being called Steve (including by my own students).
>Nonetheless, it's notable that (1) this is usually done by persons with
>a questionable, unaccredited doctorate, and (2) it's being done now by
>you, despite your advocacy of "decorum." You may find it offensive,
>but, speaking in the pontifical first-person plural, we are amused. :-)
>
--
Marshall Rice
> Your doctorate may not be questionable (at least in the U.S., or in
> Britain, where it would be tolerated; in Germany or Japan it would be
> regarded with amusement or contempt) however your use of it certainly
> is.
You raise an interesting point. Do standards in Germany or Japan
differ as to the recognition of degreees that might be accepted, even
accredited, in the United States? On what basis do you believe this
to be the case regarding a Union Institute PhD? What do they consider
to be wrong with it? Would this carry over to other nontraditional
university programs? What about nontraditional programs ~in~ Japan
and Germany? Is it because Union is a private university? Founded
relatively recently? Accredited by one of the six possible (and
three relevant) regional accreditors? Is it because of the name?
Inferior faculty? False claims? Inquiring minds would like to know,
and you seem just the source for such enlightenment, Marshall.
If not, however, a general point, you'd have to have reviewed the records
of Steve's studies there and passed appropriate judgement on them,
or perhaps some authority you trust has. If so, however, you probably
wouldn't make the next cautious statement.
> Unless I am much mistaken, the doctorate you hold is in a field quite
> unrelated to education and in the context of that subject and as the
> "credential" as which you continually flaunt it, is as bogus as if you
> had bought it from ULC.
I don't believe that on this newsgroup at least he's ever ~claimed~ to
have a PhD in education; neither has John Bear who also prominently mentions
his doctorate in his sigfile, book jackets, Heriot-Watt agency promotional
literature, etc. Why? Perhaps because there are no accepted standards
that people should, at every turn, specify the subject of their accredited
doctorates!
Now I conceed that if "Dr. Steve Levicoff" were promoting, say, his health
care practice, standards, not to mention laws, would be being broken.
However, the field of education is made up of individuals of distinction
from across the disciplines... Would you argue with the president of
a university using his doctorate if it were in anything but higher ed.
administration?
Btw, you don't know that he didn't study church-state law as applied
to education, even though he repeatedly talks about it (eg. Bob Jones
University.)
Jonathan Whatley <mailto:io...@interlog.com>
>Your doctorate may not be questionable (at least in the U.S., or in
>Britain, where it would be tolerated; in Germany or Japan it would be
>regarded with amusement or contempt) however your use of it certainly
>is.
I find this to be a questionable statement; after all, Germany has the
FernUniversitaet, which offers distance doctorates in a similar vein.
If you were trying to say that Germans don't use "doctor," you would
also be quite incorrect. In Germany, everyone with a doctorate uses
the title, unlike the US, where it is somehow suspect in some
settings to call yourself "Dr." unless you are a physician. In fact, in
the roster for our chess club we used to differentiate; the Ph.D.s
were Herr Dr., the physicians (if they had earned a doctorate, which
all had not) were Herr Dr. med. in the line-up. Even in non-academic
settings (eg., in my grandparents' neighborhood), you were expected
to address individuals with doctorates of all types as Herr or Frau Doktor
so-and-so.
In fact, if I read my Bear correctly, Germans are among the worst
buyers of fake doctorates in the US since the title is so highly thought
of.
But that may not have been what you were trying to say, or was it?
I don't know much about Japan, but know quite a bit about Germany.
As far as I understand things, the nature of German doctorates occupies
a middle position between British doctorates and American doctorates.
They require much less coursework than American doctorates, so in that
sense they are more like British doctorates, which are based (normally,
though not exclusively) only on a substantial dissertation and its defence.
However, a number of German universities DO require some coursework of
PhD candidates and most/all require a general oral exam of 1-2 hours on
the major - and often a minor - subject in addition to the dissertation
defence. In this respect, they are more like American doctorates. The
dissertation can vary quite a bit in length: I have seen references to
dissertations of less than 100 pages (almost impossible in a British
university for a PhD, but possible in the US) to 300 pages or more.
If you read German, a number of German universities have their detailed
doctoral regulations on the World-Wide Web (search for "Promotionsordnung").
For example, the regulations for a PhD in the science faculty (Dr.rer.nat.)
at the University of Ulm can be found at:
http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/satzungen/promo-1991.html
As for non-traditional programs, there is the Fernuniversitaet Hagen
(http://www.fernuni-hagen.de/welcome.html), which is the German open
university.
Also, don't forget that Germany has a two-level doctoral system. In order
to be appointed as a full professor, you have to obtain the Habilitation
(Dr.habil.) after your PhD. This requires another, more substantial
thesis (or alternatively a portfolio of publications) in addition to
oral exams, teaching experience, and a general assessment of your
academic activity.
Andrew Wilson
email: eia...@comp.lancs.ac.uk
Just a quick footnote to my earlier posting about the situation in
Germany as regards doctorates. You also asked about recognition.
The doctoral title in Germany is strictly protected by law. It is
an offence to call yourself "Doctor" if you are not one. In fact,
legally, the "Doctor" title becomes part of your name when it is
awarded. I believe I heard or read once that the university notifies
the police when the degree is awarded.
This being the case, a foreign doctorate has to be formally
"recognized" if you are to use the title legally in Germany.
The only real exception is if you are, in essence, just
"passing through", for example on sabbatical leave. Recognition
is a matter for the individual states, not the federal government,
and an application has to be re-made if you move to another state.
Some states will recognize your degree only in its original form
(e.g. PhD) whereas others will grant the equivalent German title
(e.g. Dr.phil.). Recognition is governed by a set of regulations
under the general provisions of federal and state university laws.
Basically, it is a purely administrative procedure requiring submission
of a brief CV and relevant documentation (diplomas, transcripts, etc).
The basic requirement is that the program of study should be similar
to that required in a German university, and that the university which
awarded the foreign degree should be approved and licensed by the foreign
state and be of a status that would allow it to have the status of a state
("staatlich") or state-approved ("staatlich anerkannt") university in
Germany. Out of interest, I got the application form for the state of
Brandenburg and it only had spaces for "staatlich" or "staatlich
anerkannt" for the university which awarded the degree. I assume -
but do not know - that all US regionally accredited schools would
count as "staatlich anerkannt". I am unsure how this requirement
would relate to the California approved schools that have
been mentioned in this group: in purely linguistic terms, it could be
said that they have a greater claim to the title of "staatlich anerkannt"
than regionally accredited private schools, since it is the State of
California, not a non-government accreditation agency, which approves
them. However, the German requirements for staatliche Anerkennung
would probably, in fact, be closer to those used by regional accreditation
agencies in the US.
Andrew Wilson
email: eia...@comp.lancs.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: this posting is my personal understanding of the
situation in Germany, based on my reading of relevant literature
and legal texts. It should not be taken to be an authoritative
description and exposition of German law and regulations.
----------------------------------------------------------------
....<SNIP>
> There have
>been people in the newsgroup that have tried to drive a wedge between
>John and me.
You seem to be doing an excellent job yourself, of late.
>Readers should note that despite some differences about
>which John and I are quite open, we respect each other as colleagues and
>tout each other often.
....<SNIP>
It amuses me to see you alternately comparing yourself to Bear, then
clutching at his coat-tails.
Bear is a World authority, with a reputation to match. You are a pygmy
in comparison (Can I still use that word, these days?) and your constant
recourse to directing poisonous darts at those with whom you disagree
only serves to reinforce the image.
--
Marshall Rice
>It amuses me to see you alternately comparing yourself to Bear, then
>clutching at his coat-tails.
In one later post he has told people to take anything John Bear says
"at face value," and earlier I believe he called H/W a "scam."
You are correct in that he is driving his own wedge, quite deeply. Maybe
we should regret the fact that he is leaving since he is digging such a
nice hole (or driving a wedge) on his own.
Steven B. Dowd