Original Gundam not successful...
SukiyakiSushi82
this would happen, because of its dated animation. The series permantly leaves
Toonami on October 1st. Do you think that Z Gundam and ZZ Gundam will ever be
released in the US? I doubt that any of them will make it to CN. What's your
take on this situation?
PsychoChick96669
and often when I watch it, I fall asleep right in the middle of it. Maybe this
is only the dubbed version. Dunno. Maybe if I saw it subbed, I'd think
different.
Rodrick Su
news:9n99o3$70p$1...@samba.rahul.net:
> I am very glad. For it to be successful would virtually guarantee
> being forever dub-only. Imagine what would happen if the series was
> wildly successful and the DVDs outsold Gundam Wing. Bandai would
> figure that the sub audience is negligible, and not put any effort into
> their subs, or just not produce subs at all.
Bandai's first priority is the home market. Regardless of how well it does
in the US, if it isn't released in Japan, no sub in R1.
Arnold Kim
Ken Arromdee <arro...@rahul.net> wrote in message
news:9n99o3$70p$1...@samba.rahul.net...
> In article <20010906214700...@mb-fb.aol.com>,
> forever dub-only. Imagine what would happen if the series was wildly
> successful and the DVDs outsold Gundam Wing. Bandai would figure that the
> sub audience is negligible, and not put any effort into their subs, or
just
> not produce subs at all.
You seem to always be under the impression that it's Bandai Entertainment's
fault for not trying hard enough , when it very well could be just that
Bandai Japan's simply not willing to budge.
Arnold Kim
Nu
<20010906214700...@mb-fb.aol.com>:
>The original Gundam has been getting low ratings on Cartoon Network. I
>knew this would happen, because of its dated animation. The series
>permantly leaves Toonami on October 1st.
At least it managed to get one complete run on the air, unlike Foxcaflowne.
I guess that's something to be thankful for.
>Do you think that Z Gundam and
>ZZ Gundam will ever be released in the US?
They will even if they aren't the next series to be released. Bandai has
mentioned that all of Gundam will make it to North America eventually.
>I doubt that any of them will
>make it to CN.
I wouldn't call that a certainty. 08th MS Team has been doing well for its
timeslot and 0080 and 0083 will also (thanks chiefly to their modern
animation because god forbid anyone watches anime that was made before the
mid-80's these days). At least that creates a foundation for the early
Universal Century shows that lead up to the Z and ZZ eras, whenever Bandai
wants to show them. Char's Counterattack is slated for 2002 release in the
USA. It's entirely possible that will air on Cartoon Network but it seems
like an excellent way of confusing new fans without at least having Z
released before it. Might as well air Endless Waltz before Gundam Wing tv.
What I think Bandai will do next is call over another Gundam series
"similar to Wing". That will inevitably be Gundam X, the mediocre and much-
criticized Gundam series that was canceled early in Japan (and, unlike the
also-canceled-in-Japan MSG, nobody liked it enough to bother trying to
revive it). Of course, it will be a big hit in the USA because it has cute
guys, 90's animation and giant robots with ultradestructive nuke-em-all-to-
hell weapons.
> What's your take on this situation?
Americans suck and have no appreciation for classic anime. They just want
fluff (Tenchi Muyo) or testosterone-filled crap (Dragonball Z, Ninja
Scroll) while important works like Princess Mononoke and Mobile Suit Gundam
fall by the wayside and go unnoticed. I really wish this weren't the case
considering that anime as a whole is as popular as it's ever been here but
that's reality. One step forward, two steps back.
Andrew Ryan Chang
>Toonami on October 1st. Do you think that Z Gundam and ZZ Gundam will ever be
>released in the US? I doubt that any of them will make it to CN. What's your
>take on this situation?
Bandai HK has shown that it can *churn* out MSIAs (action figures)
at the drop of a hat, so it's mostly a matter of Bandai Japan getting out
modern 1/144 model kits to match... Assuming Bandai wants to keep selling
model kits in America. I don't think the original Z/ZZ kits would go over
too well here.
What, the anime? =) I'd hope it gets shown on CN, I'm just saying
that the toys and other merchandise has to be ready too.
Andrew, still surprised to have seen a Wing Gundam and Heavyarms styled
walkie-talkie set.
--
"Before the Internet, a certain breed of deconstructionists had a lot of fun
telling everybody that "privileging of dominant paradigms" was wrecking the
world. The Internet has taught us that privileging certain views is absolutely
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Leaping Larry Jojo
The older ones should be released straight to DVD only--they will
never be ready for TV, nor will Toonami viewers ever be ready for
them.
Says something about the type of viewers Toonami has.
Jojo
Tom Handy
understanding was that it was pretty much a failure when it was first
broadcast in Japan (which indicates a deeper problem than just dated
animation, since it failed even when the animation wasn't dated).
I have seen all three gundam movies (the re-edits of the TV series)
and I personally found those to be more enjoyable. I think the
problem with the TV series could simply be that it drags on too
much.....I started watching it just because I was interested in seeing
the original Gundam in its original form (since I had only seen it in
the movie form).
I think the movies were actually pretty effective in cutting it down
while still telling most of the same story/
I don't personally think this is surprising anyone. They logically
felt it made sense to release the UC shows in continuity, and it was
necessary to get this first show out of the way, so to speak.
Granted, its a gamble, since if it fails it could taint the whole
franchise. But I imagine that is why they broadcast Gundam Wing
first, which they figured was probably more accessible.
I imagine Zeta Gundam has a greater shot at getting broadcast. A lot
of people seem to consider it one of the best Gundam series (although
I haven't seen it myself). Gundam X is the only one I can think of
that may be an iffy proposition.
I'd like to see Turn A Gundam released as well. I've only seen up to
episode 17 so far, but I've found it to be well animated and a really
nice series. I don't know that it would work too well being broadcast
though, but I'd like to see a version released in the US.
-Tom
Arnold Kim
Tom Handy <tomh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27f097af.01090...@posting.google.com...
> Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
> understanding was that it was pretty much a failure when it was first
> broadcast in Japan (which indicates a deeper problem than just dated
> animation, since it failed even when the animation wasn't dated).
It seems it failed because it was ahead of its time. I recall it was
revived a couple of years later and did well.
Arnold Kim
Andrew Ryan Chang
>Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
I'd hope so; the series has topped several Japanese polls of
favourite animes, no?
--
We were raised on television to believe that we'd all be millionares,
movie gods, rock stars, but we won't. And we're starting to figure that
out.
-- Tyler Durden, FIGHT CLUB (1999)
Leaping Larry Jojo
It did well in *syndication* (that is, reruns), which prompted the
release of the movies. The show worked better when aired daily rather
than weekly, I think. Well, it's not the same story here in the
U.S....
Jojo
Leaping Larry Jojo
>
> I imagine Zeta Gundam has a greater shot at getting broadcast.
Is it flashy by today's standards? No. It is not a very good shot.
Remember, story does not come into the equation when we are thinking
about ratings success. Expecially Toonami, home of Dragon Ball Z.
Jojo
Nu
>Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
>understanding was that it was pretty much a failure when it was first
>broadcast in Japan (which indicates a deeper problem than just dated
>animation, since it failed even when the animation wasn't dated).
>
It got mediocre ratings at best and the plug was pulled because an older
teenage audience was watching it rather than the little kids that the toy
sponsor, Clover, was aiming for (remember, MSG was the first "real robot"
show, as opposed to the kiddie-oriented "super robot" shows that dominated
the 70's). It gained an audience during reruns and fans organized and wrote
petitions and the MSG trilogy films were released as a response and they
were hits. Combine that with Bandai's luck to have the exclusive license to
produce models based on the show (which the older audience liked because
they were far more faithful to the mecha designs than Clover's toys were)
and, BAM, a franchise was made. Thank you, Toybox DX, for the source
material.
http://www.toyboxdx.com/datafiles/plot01/clover/cloverdiecast.htm
Now, 20+ years later, merchandise based on the original Gundam series (yes,
the tv series, and not just the movie trilogy) still sells well enough to
make solid profits over in Japan. Hell, they make video games revolving
around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to me. I
don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No Joe
titles on the Playstation 2. =)
>Gundam X is the only one I can think of
>that may be an iffy proposition.
Anecdotal evidence and online polls seems to indicate that fans weened on
Gundam Wing are in fact waiting more for Gundam X than the other shows
since it's closer to Wing in appearance even though X borrows from the UC
even more than Wing. Looking at the other shows that could possibly be
released: Z and ZZ (these two go hand in hand) would probably be too large
an endeavor at a combined total of 97 episodes in light of MSG's dismissal,
V Gundam takes place many decades in the future after MSG but doesn't rely
on it and so is a dark horse candidate, G Gundam contains ethnic and
nationalistic stereotypes that likely won't play well with a mainstream
audience in the USA and is very different from other Gundam shows anyway,
and Turn A Gundam would seem to be aimed more at fans who've been exposed
to 20 years of Gundam than anyone else. Since Gundam X bombed in Japan,
there probably aren't many people there who'd import a USA DVD with the
Japanese language track included, unlike with the wildly popular MSG. I
think Gundam X's arrival is almost guaranteed. Then again, I never thought
the MSG tv series would ever make it to America, so...
>I'd like to see Turn A Gundam released as well. I've only seen up to
>episode 17 so far, but I've found it to be well animated and a really
>nice series. I don't know that it would work too well being broadcast
>though, but I'd like to see a version released in the US.
I don't think it would work well on Toonami. It's even slower and has less
action than MSG.
Invid Fan
<arc...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> Tom Handy <tomh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
>
> I'd hope so; the series has topped several Japanese polls of
> favourite animes, no?
Popular among anime fans doesn't mean popular among tv viewers at
large. Besides, depending on how many anime series are nominated, the
show voted favorite could get only 10% of the vote if all the others
get 5% each :)
--
Chris Mack "I'm Mr. Gone! A student of the mystic arts! Unfortinitly,
'Invid Fan' an untalented student, or I wouldn't have to keep
shooting fools like you!" Mr. Gone, 'The Maxx'
Andrew Ryan Chang
>In article <9nbbo9$ndp$1...@morgoth.sfu.ca>, Andrew Ryan Chang
>> >Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
>>
>> I'd hope so; the series has topped several Japanese polls of
>> favourite animes, no?
>
>Popular among anime fans doesn't mean popular among tv viewers at
>large. Besides, depending on how many anime series are nominated, the
>show voted favorite could get only 10% of the vote if all the others
>get 5% each :)
Good point. But there aren't that many other shows with the level
of merchandising, and Pokemon aside, they're all based on the strength of
the show at heart. I think. (Pokemon's merchandising success IMO is
founded on the Gameboy games and not the TV show.) So I'll switch my
claim of supporting evidence from popularity polls to sheer tonnage of
Gundam merchandise.
--
Smithers: That's Homer Simpson. He wasn't exactly a model employee.
Burns: Well, who <is> a model [sees Smithers sans skull, just brain]
employee....
Smithers: [panicking] Uh, Simpson will do just fine, sir.
William
Well, not neccessarily. At least not in the way I think you mean to
infer. I personally never managed to get into MSG either. Actually, I've
basically stopped watching afternoon Toonami at all. It's at an
inconvenient time to catch regularly and the scattered episodes I have
seen never managed to really grab my imagination without the connection
of a continuous storyline.
I am pretty sure, from all I've heard about it, that if I sat down with
a few friends and watched it for 5 hours on a saturday night I'd enjoy
it. But what works in an anime club doesn't neccessarily work as
episodic TV.
William
--
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
William
Well, not neccessarily. At least not in the way I think you mean to
infer. I personally never managed to get into MSG either. Actually, I've
basically stopped watching afternoon Toonami at all. It's at an
inconvenient time to catch regularly and the scattered episodes I have
seen never managed to really grab my attention without the connection of
Sea Wasp
Hell, they make video games revolving
> around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to me. I
> don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No Joe
> titles on the Playstation 2. =)
Just as a note: I got the Mobile Suit Gundam game and it's Friggin'
AWE-INSPIRING.
--
Sea Wasp http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
/^\
;;; _Morgantown: The Jason Wood Chronicles_, at
http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20040.html
Invid Fan
<wlit...@postoffice.uri.edu> wrote:
> Well, not neccessarily. At least not in the way I think you mean to
> infer. I personally never managed to get into MSG either. Actually, I've
> basically stopped watching afternoon Toonami at all. It's at an
> inconvenient time to catch regularly and the scattered episodes I have
> seen never managed to really grab my attention without the connection of
> a continuous storyline.
I don't watch Toonami either, even if its a show I'm interested in.
It's a bad time for me, and I'm not that much into tv to set the vcr.
I'd probably have a better chance to catch it if it was on at 9pm.
Invid Fan
<arc...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com> wrote:
> >In article <9nbbo9$ndp$1...@morgoth.sfu.ca>, Andrew Ryan Chang
> >> Tom Handy <tomh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
> >>
> >> I'd hope so; the series has topped several Japanese polls of
> >> favourite animes, no?
> >
> >Popular among anime fans doesn't mean popular among tv viewers at
> >large. Besides, depending on how many anime series are nominated, the
> >show voted favorite could get only 10% of the vote if all the others
> >get 5% each :)
>
> Good point. But there aren't that many other shows with the level
> of merchandising, and Pokemon aside, they're all based on the strength of
> the show at heart. I think. (Pokemon's merchandising success IMO is
> founded on the Gameboy games and not the TV show.) So I'll switch my
> claim of supporting evidence from popularity polls to sheer tonnage of
> Gundam merchandise.
There are many cases where more people like a shows toys then the show
itself. Bandai keeps making Gundam cartoons because they're ads for the
models :) I'm not trying to argue that Gundam is unpopular, just saying
that the original show is favored more by older or more... dedicated
otaku on both sides of the Pacific then by the general tv/video
audience.
Invid Fan
wrote:
> Nu wrote:
> Hell, they make video games revolving
> > around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to me. I
> > don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No Joe
> > titles on the Playstation 2. =)
>
> Just as a note: I got the Mobile Suit Gundam game and it's Friggin'
> AWE-INSPIRING.
Is it the same as the recent Dreamcast game? Visualy that was great,
especialy the opening, but I never could get the hang of the controls
and after dying a minute in a few times I gave up :)
jet...@illusions.com
> In article <3B997A...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net>
> wrote:
>> Nu wrote:
>> Hell, they make video games revolving
>> > around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to me. I
>> > don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No Joe
>> > titles on the Playstation 2. =)
>>
>> Just as a note: I got the Mobile Suit Gundam game and it's Friggin'
>> AWE-INSPIRING.
> Is it the same as the recent Dreamcast game? Visualy that was great,
> especialy the opening, but I never could get the hang of the controls
> and after dying a minute in a few times I gave up :)
Nope, this is "Journey to Jaburo" where you pilot the Gundam itself
through the missions that lead to it leaving for space. There is also
tactial battle mode for both Zeon and Fed suits, with all the 1YW Gundams
waiting to be unlocked, and a variety of Zeon suits as well.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe jet...@illusions.com Website being moved
"Actually, I know you're right, because, well, you're the Jetman, and you
have a strange, morbid fascination with anime that would make other
peoples eyes melt..." -Jim Milligan
Led Mirage
wrote:
>Now, 20+ years later, merchandise based on the original Gundam series (yes,
>the tv series, and not just the movie trilogy) still sells well enough to
>make solid profits over in Japan. Hell, they make video games revolving
>around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to me. I
>don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No Joe
>titles on the Playstation 2. =)
They're on Playstation 1. But I don't think anyone doubted the
popularity of the original Gundam.
Led Mirage
wrote:
>Is it flashy by today's standards? No. It is not a very good shot.
>Remember, story does not come into the equation when we are thinking
>about ratings success. Expecially Toonami, home of Dragon Ball Z.
Particularly with a story as heavy as Z Gundam and a main character as
soft as Camille (But Char......I mean Quattro kicked major ass that
makes Zechs looks like a sissy wimp).
Avery Davies
<jet...@illusions.com> wrote in message
news:XFhm7.11604$Oi2.4...@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com...
> Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com> wrote:
> > In article <3B997A...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Nu wrote:
> >> Hell, they make video games revolving
> >> > around Mobile Suit Gundam on the latest systems. That's amazing to
me. I
> >> > don't see many Galaxy Express 999, Space Cruiser Yamato, or Ashita No
Joe
> >> > titles on the Playstation 2. =)
> >>
> >> Just as a note: I got the Mobile Suit Gundam game and it's
Friggin'
> >> AWE-INSPIRING.
>
> > Is it the same as the recent Dreamcast game? Visualy that was great,
> > especialy the opening, but I never could get the hang of the controls
> > and after dying a minute in a few times I gave up :)
>
> Nope, this is "Journey to Jaburo" where you pilot the Gundam itself
> through the missions that lead to it leaving for space. There is also
> tactial battle mode for both Zeon and Fed suits, with all the 1YW Gundams
> waiting to be unlocked, and a variety of Zeon suits as well.
It took some one long enough to come out with a Gundam game where the Gundam
has a starring role over here. The Dreamcast was White Dingo squadron in
Austraila, with nary a V-shaped antenna in sight.
While it does sound like I'm mocking any Gundam game that does have the
titular MS, I really want to see Zeonic Front, which was released recently
in Japan and should be in US stores in about a month. From the screenshots
I've seen, it looks like a MS version of Rainbow Six, with the Zeon
equivalent of the 08th MS team.
--
This is the Avery Davies within your computer.
pupp...@earthlink.net is dead, long live adda...@earthlink.net
'Tyler's words coming out of my mouth. I used to be such a nice person.'
- Jack, Fight Club
Chris Beilby
> titular MS, I really want to see Zeonic Front, which was released recently
> in Japan and should be in US stores in about a month. From the screenshots
> I've seen, it looks like a MS version of Rainbow Six, with the Zeon
> equivalent of the 08th MS team.
Well, Zeonic Front, J to J and GSS are all fine and dandy (Less so the
fighting game, especially since they Wingged it...) However, the Gundam
game I'd like to see make it to the US is Giren's Greed!
Leaping Larry Jojo
> tomh...@hotmail.com (Tom Handy) wrote in
> <27f097af.01090...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
> >understanding was that it was pretty much a failure when it was first
> >broadcast in Japan (which indicates a deeper problem than just dated
> >animation, since it failed even when the animation wasn't dated).
> >
>
>
> It got mediocre ratings at best and the plug was pulled because an older
> teenage audience was watching it rather than the little kids that the toy
> sponsor
I would be interested in seeing the teen ratings for MSG in the U.S.
(instead of the aged 2-12 crap we get from ratings press releases) I
wouldn't hold my breath overestimating teen tastes, though.
Jojo
Claude J. Pelletier
Tom Handy wrote:
> Frankly, has the original Gundam TV series EVER been popular? My
> understanding was that it was pretty much a failure when it was first
> broadcast in Japan (which indicates a deeper problem than just dated
> animation, since it failed even when the animation wasn't dated).
> (...)
> -Tom
That's not the point. A very good series can fail at first just because
of the
time slot. Remember, when Evangelion was first shown in Japan, it totally
failed. It is only when it was shown again in a later time slot that it
became
such a success.
The quality of animation would deter only superficial anime fan. If
people
would really sit in front of the TV and watch the series they would most
likely love it. You have to watch it thouroughly to like it because this
anime
is story and character driven. People who are busy and watch it only once
in a while cannot get into the story.
That's exactly the same thing for Z/ZZ. The quality of the animation is
not
much better, but it is the story that makes it such a great show.
There is no drama here since they will show the entire first run anyway.
And I don't care if they never show Z on TV as long as they eventually
release it on DVD.
PS: Protoculture Addicts #67 ships out Tuesday September 11th. Please,
check our web site.
--
Claude J. Pelletier
Publisher of PROTOCULTURE ADDICTS, The Anime & Manga Magazine
Publisher of ANIME: A GUIDE TO JAPANESE ANIMATION (1958-1988)
edi...@protoculture.qc.ca
fl...@protoculture.qc.ca
http://www.protoculture.qc.ca/PA/
http://www.protoculture.qc.ca/Catalog/
http://www.protoculture.qc.ca/AnimeGd/
SecretOrigin
Princess Mononoke was a classic, but Mobile Suit Gundam is garbage. Not only
is the animation poor, but the storyline is inconsistent and laughable. After
Amuro's third or fourth flip-flop from gung-ho fighter pilot to battle-fatigued
whiner, I gave up on it.
Nu
<fd58c0e9.01090...@posting.google.com>:
>Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu) wrote in message
>news:<Xns9114E9A3AGuit...@207.126.101.100>...
>>
>> Americans suck and have no appreciation for classic anime. They just
>> want fluff (Tenchi Muyo) or testosterone-filled crap (Dragonball Z,
>> Ninja Scroll) while important works like Princess Mononoke and Mobile
>> Suit Gundam fall by the wayside and go unnoticed.
>
>Princess Mononoke was a classic, but Mobile Suit Gundam is garbage. Not
>only is the animation poor,
...sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who claim to be avid
moviegoers but don't like anything made before Jaws or Star Wars...
Haven't seen many anime tv series from the 70's? The animation is pretty
much the same as other shows from the era.
>but the storyline is inconsistent and
>laughable.
Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days. And
that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
Nu
<Yllm7.44$p3....@sydney.visi.net>:
Hells yeah. Even though MSG is getting pulled off the air after one run a
version of Gihren's Greed would probably be feasible for USA release since
everyone loves 08th MS Team and will no doubt eat up 0080 and 0083 when
they air.
SecretOrigin
> secret...@yahoo.com (SecretOrigin) wrote in
> <fd58c0e9.01090...@posting.google.com>:
>
> >Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu) wrote in message
> >news:<Xns9114E9A3AGuit...@207.126.101.100>...
> >>
> >> Americans suck and have no appreciation for classic anime. They just
> >> want fluff (Tenchi Muyo) or testosterone-filled crap (Dragonball Z,
> >> Ninja Scroll) while important works like Princess Mononoke and Mobile
> >> Suit Gundam fall by the wayside and go unnoticed.
> >
> >Princess Mononoke was a classic, but Mobile Suit Gundam is garbage. Not
> >only is the animation poor,
>
>
> ...sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who claim to be avid
> moviegoers but don't like anything made before Jaws or Star Wars...
>
> Haven't seen many anime tv series from the 70's? The animation is pretty
> much the same as other shows from the era.
That doesn't make it look any better.
> >but the storyline is inconsistent and
> >laughable.
>
>
> Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days.
You must be joking. It's given me a whole new appreciation for other older
series like Macross and Votoms that actually had coherent stories and
characters that didn't flip-flop from one episode to the next.
And
> that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
> It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
The fact that it influenced other shows doesn't make it a good show by today's
standards.
Slithy Tove
wrote:
>Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days. And
>that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
>It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
Um... MSG and similar shows are largely responsible for what giant bot
show anime is today. There's a lot more to anime than giant bot shows.
I can't see that MSG had much influence on any shoujo shows, or
shounen romantic comedy, or cyberpunk (BGC, Gunnm, Akira), or fighting
shows (DBZ, YYH), or any genre except the giant bot show.
I agree, the storytelling in MSG is better than in many newer shows.
Take Gundam Wing. Please. Or 08th MS Team. But the thinly-disguised
sales pitches for toys are really beginning to irk me, they're even
more obvious than the mahou shoujo getting her new wand, or tiara, or
other latest trinket. They were largely cut out of the movie
adaptations of Gundam, and with good reason.
== Tove
--
Multiple choice. Which of the following three things is eternal?
1. A diamond. 2. A beautiful memory. 3. Canned peaches.
Christian Smith
wrote:
>You must be joking. It's given me a whole new appreciation for other older
>series like Macross and Votoms that actually had coherent stories and
>characters that didn't flip-flop from one episode to the next.
Gundam has flaws, no doubt about it. It's an uncomfortable
mixture of old-style super-robot shows and an attempt at serious
sci-fi. As such, it retains the toyetic sensibilities of earlier
creations. In addition, the emotional drama suffers attacks of
exaggeration; what would be affecting character moments in a more
modern show end up being over-amped intensity in Gundam, matching the
"The bad guys are about to destroy the science center!!!"
hand-wringing of earlier bot shows.
However, while Macross and Votoms may be more consistent in
tone, that's because they came years later, after the reaction to
Gundam had convinced producers that shows aimed at young adults would
fly. Even if they did sci-fi better (an arguable statement, in my
view), they did it in a field greatly widened by Mobile Suit.
>And
>> that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
>> It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
>
>The fact that it influenced other shows doesn't make it a good show by today's
>standards.
It's a good show by any real standards--not great, but quite
good. You neglect that today's standards should include the
appreciation of priority.
If Gundam hadn't, would something else have opened the way?
Probably; The Space Cruiser Yamato movie revival didn't specifically
revitalize bot shows, but did vastly expand the older audience for
anime. However, I think Tomino's track record since the original
Gundam indicates that he was a pretty good man for the job, even if
he's not stably consistent.
My name is Christian Smith. I welcome your comments.
lyabi...@mindspring.com
"I just want people to see my action heart."
Chris Beilby
> That doesn't make it look any better.
He who judges anime by it's Eye-candy factor is shallow and superficial.
Would you say this about most of Leiji Masumoto's anime? Would you say this
about some of Miyazaki's early works?
>
> > >but the storyline is inconsistent and
> > >laughable.
> >
> >
> > Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days.
>
> You must be joking. It's given me a whole new appreciation for other
older
> series like Macross and Votoms that actually had coherent stories and
> characters that didn't flip-flop from one episode to the next.
>
> And
> > that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
> > It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is
today.
>
> The fact that it influenced other shows doesn't make it a good show by
today's
> standards.
Except without first Gundam, there would be no Macross or Votoms. Gundam
laid the groundwork for the real mecha animation genre that these shows are
part of.
I suggest that you go hide back under the rock you've been living under,
troll.
Chris Beilby
"Slithy Tove" <sli...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:qkqmptopqeqhbgjt2...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2001 06:34:13 -0000, Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu)
> wrote:
>
> >Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days. And
> >that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
> >It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
>
> Um... MSG and similar shows are largely responsible for what giant bot
> show anime is today. There's a lot more to anime than giant bot shows.
> I can't see that MSG had much influence on any shoujo shows, or
> shounen romantic comedy, or cyberpunk (BGC, Gunnm, Akira), or fighting
> shows (DBZ, YYH), or any genre except the giant bot show.
Except, Tove, the person that we're trying to convince here isn't even
acknowledging Gundam's influence on it's own genre...
Avery Davies
"Chris Beilby" <cbe...@hroads.net> wrote in message
news:Yllm7.44$p3....@sydney.visi.net...
I'll second that. I caught the Bandai Japanese site for Giren's Greed and
just the concept of team ups and faceoffs or MS that could never happen in
the series makes my mouth water (Gato vs. Amuro! Sayla in the G3 Gundam!
Gyan Cannon! Titans Gundam RX78-2!) and I've caught the animation intro and
one of the alternate endings (Gato in the GP02 nuking Jaburo at point blank
range!) and it's outstanding.
William
> Except, Tove, the person that we're trying to convince here isn't even
> acknowledging Gundam's influence on it's own genre...
I think 'the person' is saying that the influence a series has on later
series doesn't affect it's quality, something I agree with. You seem to
have your cause and effect backwards. Being influential doesn't mean it
was better.
790Robothead
Ken Arromdee wrote:
> In article <20010906214700...@mb-fb.aol.com>,
> SukiyakiSushi82 <sukiyak...@aol.com> wrote:
> >The original Gundam has been getting low ratings on Cartoon Network. I knew
> >this would happen, because of its dated animation. The series permantly leaves
> >Toonami on October 1st. Do you think that Z Gundam and ZZ Gundam will ever be
> >released in the US? I doubt that any of them will make it to CN. What's your
> >take on this situation?
>
> I am very glad. For it to be successful would virtually guarantee being
> forever dub-only. Imagine what would happen if the series was wildly
> successful and the DVDs outsold Gundam Wing. Bandai would figure that the
> sub audience is negligible, and not put any effort into their subs, or just
> not produce subs at all.
> --
> Ken Arromdee / arro...@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
>
> "It's the antiques business." --Carmine Infantino on comic books
or they could say "This show's not making any money. I'm not releasing this on
DVD"
SecretOrigin
> > That doesn't make it look any better.
>
> He who judges anime by it's Eye-candy factor is shallow and superficial.
Who's judging anime by it's appearance? I was just commenting on it's
appearance. It's the story that turned me off of Gundam, not the dated
animation.
> Would you say this about most of Leiji Masumoto's anime? Would you say this
> about some of Miyazaki's early works?
>
> >
> > > >but the storyline is inconsistent and
> > > >laughable.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days.
> >
> > You must be joking. It's given me a whole new appreciation for other
> older
> > series like Macross and Votoms that actually had coherent stories and
> > characters that didn't flip-flop from one episode to the next.
> >
> > And
> > > that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
> > > It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is
> today.
> >
> > The fact that it influenced other shows doesn't make it a good show by
> today's
> > standards.
>
> Except without first Gundam, there would be no Macross or Votoms. Gundam
> laid the groundwork for the real mecha animation genre that these shows are
> part of.
>
> I suggest that you go hide back under the rock you've been living under,
> troll.
Troll? I don't give a damn what Gundam paved the way for. Just because I like
Macross and Votoms doesn't mean I have to like Gundam. Just because it was
influential it doesn't make it good.
Nu
>On Sun, 09 Sep 2001 06:34:13 -0000, Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu)
>wrote:
>
>>Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days. And
>>that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin
>>with. It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime
>>is today.
>
>Um... MSG and similar shows are largely responsible for what giant bot
>show anime is today. There's a lot more to anime than giant bot shows.
>I can't see that MSG had much influence on any shoujo shows, or
>shounen romantic comedy, or cyberpunk (BGC, Gunnm, Akira), or fighting
>shows (DBZ, YYH), or any genre except the giant bot show.
When I say "shows like MSG", I was refering to anime from the same era in
general be it Rose Of Versailles or Space Cruiser Yamato or other series
that many anime fans today would probably find overly melodramtic, hokey,
and perhaps even naive.
>I agree, the storytelling in MSG is better than in many newer shows.
>Take Gundam Wing. Please. Or 08th MS Team. But the thinly-disguised
>sales pitches for toys are really beginning to irk me, they're even
>more obvious than the mahou shoujo getting her new wand, or tiara, or
>other latest trinket. They were largely cut out of the movie
>adaptations of Gundam, and with good reason.
The thing that always got me was how good many of these older shows were
*despite* largely being advertisements for new toys and models.
Ethan Hammond
>
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2001 06:34:13 -0000, Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu)
> wrote:
>
> >Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days. And
> >that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin with.
> >It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime is today.
>
> Um... MSG and similar shows are largely responsible for what giant bot
> show anime is today. There's a lot more to anime than giant bot shows.
> I can't see that MSG had much influence on any shoujo shows, or
> shounen romantic comedy, or cyberpunk (BGC, Gunnm, Akira), or fighting
> shows (DBZ, YYH), or any genre except the giant bot show.
>
> I agree, the storytelling in MSG is better than in many newer shows.
> Take Gundam Wing. Please. Or 08th MS Team. But the thinly-disguised
> sales pitches for toys are really beginning to irk me, they're even
> more obvious than the mahou shoujo getting her new wand, or tiara, or
> other latest trinket. They were largely cut out of the movie
> adaptations of Gundam, and with good reason.
Heh or Pokemon getting all new monsters.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Nu
>Guitar...@hotmail.com (Nu) wrote in message
>news:<Xns9116EDC19Guit...@207.126.101.100>...
>>
>> ...sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people who claim to be avid
>> moviegoers but don't like anything made before Jaws or Star Wars...
>>
>> Haven't seen many anime tv series from the 70's? The animation is
>> pretty much the same as other shows from the era.
>
>That doesn't make it look any better.
But it tells you that that's what anime looked like then. In other words,
how could anyone expect MS Gundam to look like something from the 80's or
90's when pretty much no anime back then did? Space Pirate Captain Harlock
and Rose Of Versaille certainly don't look like Akira or Bubblegum Crisis
and I doubt they could have.
In short, "the animation of old show X is bad" when it was just fine for an
anime of its time is a cheap, lazy critique. Might as well criticize a low-
budget, independent sci-fi film for not having the visuals of The Matrix.
>> >but the storyline is inconsistent and
>> >laughable.
>>
>>
>> Hardly. The show has a better story than much of anime these days.
>
>You must be joking. It's given me a whole new appreciation for other
>older series like Macross and Votoms that actually had coherent stories
>and characters that didn't flip-flop from one episode to the next.
Votoms and MS Gundam were both Sunrise shows from the same period of time
and they have virtually the same level of animation. You can't be telling
me that Votoms has good animation while MSG doesn't.
As for flip-flopping, most of the characters in MSG are pretty consistent.
But Amuro's a 15 year old teenager in the middle of a war (and was revealed
early on to have been raised by a parent with strong pacifistic beliefs).
His personality can't be all that stable in that situation. And his mood
swings wouldn't be any more believable if he were an alien and a pop idol
sang him a song that culture-shocked his personality into changing.
>>And
>> that's disregarding things that were influenced by Gundam to begin
>> with. It's shows like MSG that are largely responsible for what anime
>> is today.
>
>The fact that it influenced other shows doesn't make it a good show by
>today's standards.
And what is it about the standards of today's shows that makes them so
superior to the standards of the past?
Wyvern
> > What's your take on this situation?
>
>
> Americans suck and have no appreciation for classic anime. They just want
> fluff (Tenchi Muyo) or testosterone-filled crap (Dragonball Z, Ninja
> Scroll) while important works like Princess Mononoke and Mobile Suit
Gundam
> fall by the wayside and go unnoticed. I really wish this weren't the case
> considering that anime as a whole is as popular as it's ever been here but
> that's reality. One step forward, two steps back.
Thats a huge overgeneralization. It's easy to condemn the general public
for making one thing popular over another, but let's be fair here-Gundam was
a ratings bomb in Japan,too.(and DBZ a ratings smash) It's not just
Americans who "suck"-mainstream audiences always seem to have a problem with
something that's unique or different from the norm. Gundam was a different
kind of robot show in 1979,and people weren't ready for it at first. It
wasen't what the expected,so they shyed away.
That kind of thing happens all the time. Evangelion was a ratings bomb,too
(I mean, it got clobbered in the ratings by WEDDING PEACH,for God's sake.)
but then it's popularity blew up in reruns and now Japanese and American
fans still can't shut up about it. Same thing happened to Star Trek. And the
movie Wizard of Oz. And the movie It's a Wonderful Life. And Citizen
Kane,etc. That seems to be human nature.
Gundam was an expiremental show here,too, not for it's plot, but because it
was twenty-one years old on the same block that had played host to
cutting-edge shows like Blue Submarine no. 6.
Gundam's audience was mostly kids and tweens, and kids and tweens like
flashy animation. I bet that if Gundam had been on the Midnight Run,wich
generally gets somewhat older viewers, it would have done better. Maybe I'm
wrong.
Anyway, I just think it's silly to condemn the entire population of America
because Gundam was canceled. Of course Princess Mononoke wasen't going to be
a hit when idiot Disney hardly promoted it so alot of fans didn't even know
it was out. And some people will give you perfectly valid reasons why Tenchi
and Dragon Ball Z are masterpieces and Gundam is total crap. I don't agree
with them, but they're entitled to thier opinions. And anyway, the original
Z-less Dragon Ball is at least as good as Gundam,if totally different. ^_^
-Wyvern
Klyfix
sukiyak...@aol.com (SukiyakiSushi82) writes:
>
>The original Gundam has been getting low ratings on Cartoon Network. I knew
>this would happen, because of its dated animation. The series permantly
>leaves
>Toonami on October 1st. Do you think that Z Gundam and ZZ Gundam will ever be
>released in the US? I doubt that any of them will make it to CN. What's your
>take on this situation?
>
The animation was certainly nothing to write home about, but the
storylines were pretty good once one got into it. I'd have liked to
have seen more of it rather than suddenly finding "Dragonball"
on my tape when I got home. How far along in the overall series
did they get?
V. S. Greene : kly...@aol.com : Boston, near Arkham...
Eckzylon: http://m1.aol.com/klyfix/eckzylon.html
RPG and SF, predictions, philosophy, and other things.
Oh joy, we're gonna have a war. With somebody.