Clairity may have visited me!
Spicy Jem
Clairity...I hope that you don't mind me posting this note to the rest of the
NG, but I think it's very, very interesting.
Just to *clairify* (hehe), I got this email from Clairity in my mailbox, and I
am going to attempt to answer it while you read along. My answers have the
asterix in front of it:
>Hi Jeff! I didn't think I would be writing you so soon but you stated
>in your newsgroup reply to my post that the next time when you go OOB
>and you called for me, maybe I will appear.
>Well, I have some questions for you:
>1. Do you have a *smallish* bedroom?
***Yes I do....not quite as small as my bedroom in my original house, but its
so cluttered and compact that it probably looks a lot smaller than it would be
if I just cleaned it! But in answer to your question, yes...I have a smallish
bedroom.
>2. Do you have a twin size bed?
***Yes I do.
>3. Is your bed against the wall in a corner of the room?
***The head of the bed rests against the middle of a wall, and it lays out from
that point, like the form of a "T".
>4. Is there a guitar on the floor next to or leaning
>against your bed?
***Yes I do...when you said this, it really made my mouth drop! It usually
leans against my bed or against my desk (next to my bed). This suprised me
that you would know this because most people either keep their guitars in a
case or on a stand....mine just leans against the desk or bedframe.
>5. Are the sheets on your bed in disarray?
***Oh yeah...in fact, I dont have any sheets on my bed. Its just an opened
sleeping back that drapes over my bed. Very comfy and not difficult to
straighten. However, I neevr straighten it out (because no one comes in my
room but me), so its usually in disarray on my bed (until I straighten it out
before bedtime).
>6. I saw no *heavy* bedspread or thick blanket on your bed, is
>this correct?
***The only thing I have on my bed is a dark colored (opened flat) sleeping bag
that is draped over it. Nothing else, like sheets or comforters.
>7. Did you sleep facing the wall this morning?
***Well, my bed is in the middle of my room, so either way I face, it's not
exactly next to a wall. The headboard touches the wall, but on either side of
the bed, there is about 4 feet of space before the wall. I believe I woke up
on my right side this morning
>Jeff, let me know if any of this is a hit. If not, but you want to hear
>about my experience this morning anyway let me know that too. ;-)
Well, it definately raised an eyebrow! The only thing that I am not sure you
were right about was the position of the bed....other than that, you were
pretty much right on the money! Now that you know where I live, maybe you can
visit me more! <wink> Looking forward to flying with you! Tell me more about
your experience! You got me all excited over here!
Jeff
<3 Jeff Mash <3
To email me, remove the "JokeMail" in the address.
Need a laugh? Go to http://www.vertigy.com/jokemail
"There's nothing to fear except fear itself...Oh...plus rejection and physical
harm!"
Julia Hawkes-Moore
out all Clairity's hits;
Congratulations, Clairity, you can certainly do it!
Were you projecting from sleep, dreams, obe or meditation? Your
vision was very clear - did you try the 'Clairity now!@ technique?!
Well done, Jeff, for being a good receiver. Did you sense her
arrival and presence at all?
If more of us in this newsgroup practice doing this kind of thing,
we can all discover just how easy and successful it is to travel
out-of-body. How many times did you try before this success?
Jean Galliano had us pairing up to visit together some time ago; it
is an excellent technique, and as you can see, produces real results
on which you can build your confidence. After a string of hits like
this, you can do anything you please!
All best wishes and congratulations, Julia.
SUNEYE
Congratulations, I knew Clairity had it in her. She is very
persistent. Keep up the good work Clairity.
Joe Russa (SUNEYE)
sun...@earthlink.net
('Home of The SUNEYE Method')
http://fly.to/suneye
http://travel.to/suneye (mirror site)
clai...@webtv.net
> spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem) wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> Clairity...I hope that you don't mind me posting this note to the rest of the
> NG, but I think it's very, very interesting.
Honestly Jeff, I didn't send this to the newsgroup because I was afraid of
being *embarrassed* .. I was afraid that you would reply back that you didn't
know WHO the heck I'd visited but it sure wasn't you! But this sure doesn't
appear to be the case!
> Just to *clairify* (hehe), I got this email from Clairity in my mailbox, and I
> am going to attempt to answer it while you read along.
Since this started out to be a personal email to Jeff and, as he has no
problem sharing it, neither do I! ;-) But for the sake of telling the
experience, I'm going to reply as though I'm speaking to Jeff (it'll just be
easier that way).
> My answers have the asterix in front of it:
> >Hi Jeff! I didn't think I would be writing you so soon but you stated
> >in your newsgroup reply to my post that the next time when you go OOB
> >and you called for me, maybe I will appear.
I have read posts from others about going and pulling someone else out and I
have always believed it was possible. I had tried to visit Jeff before (when
he wrote about wanting to go OOB because he had just lost someone very close
to him) but at the time I had only had a few OOBEs and there were VERY
sporadic. Unfortunately I was also in one of my dry spells and could not get
out.
Well since your last post where you mentioned my appearing to you.. and since
I've gotten a little better at this OOBE/lucid dreaming thing.. I thought I'd
give it another go. I have always thought it would help not only to have the
desire and the general location of where the person is, but to also know what
that person looks like. Since you have your picture on your website, I simply
printed it out and used it.
I went to bed at 11pm and got up at 5am. The tv was on but I still read
about OOBEs for about an hour. I then went back to bed about 6am and studied
your picture for a few minutes. I dimmed the lights and did the Third Eye
technique for 5 minutes stating that "everything is a dream" and "I will
realize that I am dreaming". I find this works for me as I always fall asleep
but then wake up minutes later in a false awakening.. and I just go from
there.
Jeff, in my "short and temporary blind" post reply to you, I had stated that
I had not had the strength to get out so I was going to ask my *spirit
guides* for help but that I hoped that I would not *freak out* if one showed
up to help me. I guess they heard me which is the only way that I can explain
WHO showed up to carry me to you.
I *woke up* and experienced one of my *false awakenings*. I was trying to
decide how to proceed when a cartoon head appeared in front of me. It was
the head of the cartoon genie from the kid's movie "Aladdin"!! Now I'm
thinking what the #$%@ is this but somehow I knew that he could get me to you
if I just asked (kind of like granting my wish). As the head bobbed in front
of me I stated "Take me to Jeff". As I watched the rest of his body slowly
appeared. I stated again, "Take me to JEFF!" and I grabbed his right shoulder
with my right hand and we were in motion..
I remember only the feeling of movement. I felt wind against my body and us
moving forward but I could see nothing. I remember again while we were in
flight stating once more "Take me to Jeff!" It wasn't until we were close
enough that I could see an opening in a floor that I realized that he had
carried me by my laying flat on his back.
There was an opening in a floor almost in the shape of a star and the genie
carried me half way through this opening and I climbed off his back and he was
gone. This is what I saw and where my questions came from.
> >Well, I have some questions for you:
> >1. Do you have a *smallish* bedroom?
> ***Yes I do....not quite as small as my bedroom in my original house, but its
> so cluttered and compact that it probably looks a lot smaller than it would be
> if I just cleaned it! But in answer to your question, yes...I have a smallish
> bedroom.
Now I'm a little freaked.. when I came up through the floor, I noticed that
there was very little *open* floor space and I thought to myself either he
doesn't have enough room for everything or he's a bit of a slob. ;-D But
what's really wild is that I went back to my notes after reading this part
of your response and I too had used the word "cluttered". (ok, cue the music
from the Twilight Zone)
> >2. Do you have a twin size bed?
> ***Yes I do.
> >3. Is your bed against the wall in a corner of the room?
> ***The head of the bed rests against the middle of a wall, and it lays out
> from that point, like the form of a "T".
Hmmmm? I can't explain this unless my viewpoint coming up from the floor made
it look closer to the wall than it was.
> >4. Is there a guitar on the floor next to or leaning against your bed?
> ***Yes I do...when you said this, it really made my mouth drop! It usually
> leans against my bed or against my desk (next to my bed). This suprised me
> that you would know this because most people either keep their guitars in a
> case or on a stand....mine just leans against the desk or bedframe.
> >5. Are the sheets on your bed in disarray?
> ***Oh yeah...in fact, I dont have any sheets on my bed. Its just an opened
> sleeping back that drapes over my bed. Very comfy and not difficult to
> straighten. However, I neevr straighten it out (because no one comes in my
> room but me), so its usually in disarray on my bed (until I straighten it out
> before bedtime).
> >6. I saw no *heavy* bedspread or thick blanket on your bed, is this
> > correct?
> ***The only thing I have on my bed is a dark colored (opened flat) sleeping
> bag that is draped over it. Nothing else, like sheets or comforters.
> >7. Did you sleep facing the wall this morning?
> ***Well, my bed is in the middle of my room, so either way I face, it's not
> exactly next to a wall. The headboard touches the wall, but on either side of
> the bed, there is about 4 feet of space before the wall. I believe I woke up
> on my right side this morning
When I came up from the floor, and climbed off the genie's back, I could make
out a form in the twin bed. Since I had never actually visited anyone
*astrally* before I wasn't exactly sure how to proceed. I made my way over to
the bed and saw that you were facing away from me. I reached out to you,
gently touching your shoulder and softly said "Jeff".
Your physical body jumped, startled and you rolled over and looked up at me.
Your eyes were open wide and I could sense your fear. I was floating above
you and I reached out, gently resting my right hand on your left cheek and
said softly "Don't be afraid Jeff, it's Clairity. Don't be afraid."
I smiled at you and I saw the fear leave your eyes and felt your body relax.
I also felt myself start to *fade* and I tried saying "increase clarity" ..
but it was ending and I couldn't stay.
> >Jeff, let me know if any of this is a hit. If not, but you want to hear
> >about my experience this morning anyway let me know that too. ;-)
> Well, it definately raised an eyebrow! The only thing that I am not sure you
> were right about was the position of the bed....other than that, you were
> pretty much right on the money! Now that you know where I live, maybe you can
> visit me more! <wink> Looking forward to flying with you! Tell me more
> about your experience! You got me all excited over here!
> Jeff
Jeff, I didn't tell you about my attempt beforehand because I was afraid that
I would feel *performance pressure* and I'd never be able to get "out" (let
alone find you).
I also can't say if I'll ever be able to get back to you, but if one morning,
you happen to catch a glimpse of a woman who's 5'7", 128 pounds, has dark
brown shoulder legnth hair, dark brown eyes, full lips and skin the color of
toffee.. don't be afraid, it's only me.. (and I would never hurt you). ;-)
I feel very blessed for this experience Jeff (and I thank you)!
Clairity
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jake
Julia Hawkes-Moore skrev i meddelandet
<36e50f36...@news.dial.pipex.com>...
>On 9 Mar 1999 01:24:28 GMT, spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem) wrote
> Congratulations, Clairity, you can certainly do it!
> Were you projecting from sleep, dreams, obe or meditation? Your
>vision was very clear - did you try the 'Clairity now!@ technique?!
> Well done, Jeff, for being a good receiver. Did you sense her
>arrival and presence at all?
> If more of us in this newsgroup practice doing this kind of thing,
>we can all discover just how easy and successful it is to travel
>out-of-body.
Well....I wouldn't call it easy...for you it's probably just as easy as
spelling your first name, but
not for me. I have experiences two OBE's autumn '98, but now I seam to have
lost it. I manage to get to the trance state, but after that I can't get any
further. I think the problem is that I think too much.
When something happens (like when I hear a "schwoing" sound in my head I
tense up and think two million thoughts at the same time.
/Jake
Spicy Jem
clai...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> > Clairity...I hope that you don't mind me posting this note to the rest of
> the
> > NG, but I think it's very, very interesting.
>
> Honestly Jeff, I didn't send this to the newsgroup because I was afraid of
> being *embarrassed* .. I was afraid that you would reply back that you didn't
> know WHO the heck I'd visited but it sure wasn't you! But this sure doesn't
> appear to be the case!
>
No, it sure doesn't appear to be the case! I am more flattered that you would
take the time to want to see me, and amidst this flattery, I am in awe that you
described things so well! I understand your possible feelings for
embarassment, but hey, worse case scenario is that you would have visited
someone else! The important thing is that you got out!
>
> I have read posts from others about going and pulling someone else out and I
> have always believed it was possible. I had tried to visit Jeff before (when
> he wrote about wanting to go OOB because he had just lost someone very close
> to him) but at the time I had only had a few OOBEs and there were VERY
> sporadic.
Yes, that was back in November when my only grandmother died while I held her
hand in the hospital. Very sad time for me, and I appreciate you wanting to
come and comfort me. At that time, even I myself had only had 2 OOBE's. Since
then I have had two more, and they seem to be getting more and more detailed
(showing proession). YAY!
> Unfortunately I was also in one of my dry spells and could not get out.
>
I know how that goes......but I am hoping that the time laspe between our dry
spells starts to shorten. Or maybe we will establish some kind of pattern to
know within ourselves, "Okay, it's been 2 weeks since my last OOBE....I should
start to have one any time now!"
> Well since your last post where you mentioned my appearing to you.. and
> since I've gotten a little better at this OOBE/lucid dreaming thing.. I
> thought I'd give it another go. I have always thought it would help not only
> to have the desire and the general location of where the person is, but to
> also know what
> that person looks like. Since you have your picture on your website, I
> simply printed it out and used it.
>
Yes, this is a very important step, IMO. It's hard to visit someone that you
have no emotional attachment too, so the more you talk to them, find out info
about them (and even if you possess some kind of physical object that belongs
to them), all these things can help aid in focusing your desire to project to
them. I can't explain it, but I do feel an emotional attachment to you,
Clairity. Perhaps I will find strength in this to have more *hits* from this
end of the bedroom. <smile>
> I went to bed at 11pm and got up at 5am. The tv was on but I still read
> about OOBEs for about an hour. I then went back to bed about 6am and studied
> your picture for a few minutes. I dimmed the lights and did the Third Eye
> technique for 5 minutes stating that "everything is a dream" and "I will
> realize that I am dreaming". I find this works for me as I always fall asleep
> but then wake up minutes later in a false awakening.. and I just go from
> there.
>
When you say "false awakening", do you mean that you feel like you have woken
up, but yet, still realize that you are dreaming? Almost like an LD?
> I *woke up* and experienced one of my *false awakenings*. I was trying to
> decide how to proceed when a cartoon head appeared in front of me. It was
> the head of the cartoon genie from the kid's movie "Aladdin"!! Now I'm
> thinking what the #$%@ is this but somehow I knew that he could get me to you
> if I just
> asked (kind of like granting my wish).
<Thinking> Maybe that's significant of me in some way! <Singing> You ain't
never had a friend like me!"
> As the head bobbed in front of me I
> stated "Take me to Jeff". As I watched the rest of his body slowly appeared.
> I stated again, "Take me to JEFF!" and I grabbed his right shoulder with my
> right hand and we were in motion..
>
Off to the cluttered room of Jeff Mash! If I would have known you would be
stopping by, I would have at least straightened up a bit! You started out this
letter by mentioning your hesistance to post for fear of embarrassment. I am
afraid that *I* should be the one who is embarrassed! I hope I marry somoene
who can bear with my cluttered mess!
> I remember only the feeling of movement. I felt wind against my body and us
> moving forward but I could see nothing. I remember again while we were in
> flight stating once more "Take me to Jeff!" It wasn't until we were close
> enough that I could see an opening in a floor that I realized that he had
> carried me by my laying flat on his back.
>
Thats interesting!
> There was an opening in a floor almost in the shape of a star and the genie
> carried me half way through this opening and I climbed off his back and he
> was
> gone. This is what I saw and where my questions came from.
>
Hmmm...I wonder what the star signifies? I always wanted to be a famous star
(actor or musician) and still have my dreams to one day accomplish this. Oops,
sorry for drifting.... back to your post!
> > >Well, I have some questions for you:
>
> > >1. Do you have a *smallish* bedroom?
>
> > ***Yes I do....not quite as small as my bedroom in my original house, but
> its
> > so cluttered and compact that it probably looks a lot smaller than it
> would be
> > if I just cleaned it! But in answer to your question, yes...I have a
> smallish
> > bedroom.
>
> Now I'm a little freaked.. when I came up through the floor, I noticed that
> there was very little *open* floor space and I thought to myself either he
> doesn't have enough room for everything or he's a bit of a slob. ;-D But
> what's really wild is that I went back to my notes after reading this part of
> your response and I too had used the word "cluttered".
> (ok, cue the music from the Twilight Zone)
Well, I am a bit of a slob, but I have a theory on that. I just need a bigger
place to keep all my stuff! When your confined to one bedroom, it kind of
hampers your storage space! LOL Excuses? Perhaps....but at work and in other
areas of my life, I am very organized. Maybe it's the Virgo in me!
>
> > >3. Is your bed against the wall in a corner of the room?
>
> > ***The head of the bed rests against the middle of a wall, and it lays out
>
> > from that point, like the form of a "T".
>
> Hmmmm? I can't explain this unless my viewpoint coming up from the floor
> made it look closer to the wall than it was.
>
That could be possible. Depending on what part of the floor you were looking
and where your perspective was, it is possible to misjudge that. Or, if you
want to really use yor imagine, I have been thinking a lot (only for the past
few days) about rearranging my bed to lay flush against the wall (to try the
north-south bed position). Perhaps you saw what my mind had created, just as
many of us can see energy forms of past physical objects while OOB.
> When I came up from the floor, and climbed off the genie's back, I could
> make out a form in the twin bed. Since I had never actually visited anyone *
> astrally* before I wasn't exactly sure how to proceed. I made my way over to
> the bed and saw that you were facing away from me. I reached out to you,
> gently touching your shoulder and softly said "Jeff".
>
> Your physical body jumped, startled and you rolled over and looked up at me.
> Your eyes were open wide and I could sense your fear. I was floating above
> you and I reached out, gently resting my right hand on your left cheek and
> said softly "Don't be afraid Jeff, it's Clairity. Don't be afraid."
>
> I smiled at you and I saw the fear leave your eyes and felt your body relax.
> I also felt myself start to *fade* and I tried saying "increase clarity" ..
> but it was ending and I couldn't stay.
>
Well, unfortunately, I have no memory of this....but in no way do I discredit
the validity of this. If you recall, in MANY of Robert Monroes experiences,
and in many of other travelers, they have visited people and the people wake up
to have no recollection of the experience. *I* am a heavy sleeper. I dont
snore, but I am out like a light. It can be annoying for me because if I was
a lighter sleeper, I would wake up more in the night and be able to attempt an
OOBE....but lately, I sleep right through till morning.
In regards to my response to you, I believe that you may have been seeing my
subconscious, which is always awake. It responded the way *I* would have
responded had I been awake or even OOB at the same time. I thank you from the
bottom of my heart for this visit. I have no doubts that it is true just from
the exact description you gave regarding my room.
> Jeff, I didn't tell you about my attempt beforehand because I was afraid
> that I would feel *performance pressure* and I'd never be able to get "out" (
> let alone
> find you).
I understand...many times, if we feel that there is pressure to do something,
it hinders our progress. I would never want to put any pressure on you to see
me. I see it like a bonus. If you come to see me, then AWESOME. If not, then
at least you get OOB and have some fun. Like I said in a recent post, I paired
up with Laura a couple weeks ago, and I was able to get out. The next time I
tried, I couldnt. I think it all depends on your emotional/physical/mental
situation at the time.
>
> I also can't say if I'll ever be able to get back to you, but if one
morning,
> you happen to catch a glimpse of a woman who's 5'7", 128 pounds, has dark
> brown
> shoulder legnth hair, dark brown eyes, full lips and skin the color of
> toffee.. don't be afraid, it's only me.. (and I would never hurt you).
>
Woohoo! If I saw someone that beautiful, I would probably have a NDE! <smile>
By the way, if you would like to talk more (via email), feel free to tell me
more about yourself so I can have something to focus on. If you have a
picture, that would help too, but if not, then I definately look forward to
more letters from you.
> I feel very blessed for this experience Jeff (and I thank you)!
>
I thank you! I hope this is the first of many encounters between us <smile>.
Happy2ceu
I thought to myself either he
doesn't have enough room for everything or he's a bit of a slob. ;-D
Julia's comment to me::::
Your room
was filled with piles of books, could do with a tidy!
Hey Jeffy....see a common thread here? LOL
Maybe if we got off our butts and cleaned up our rooms, we could obe more
often. We're probably gettin' out of body, but gettin' hung in all the trash
in our room....LOL
slobsRus
Laura :)
John Fitzsimons
< snip >
>Just to *clairify* (hehe), I got this email from Clairity in my mailbox,
< snip >
>>Well, I have some questions for you:
I think that sometimes it is a good idea to see things as others, even
skeptics, may see things. We have enough skeptics accusing "believers"
of being gullible without giving them more reasons for this opinion.
If people think I do NOT think Clairity visited Jeff then they are
free to think that. They can also believe the opposite.
The following are simply things to consider. I am not saying anyone
did, or did not, visit anyone.
>>1. Do you have a *smallish* bedroom?
>***Yes I do....not quite as small as my bedroom in my original house, but its
>so cluttered and compact that it probably looks a lot smaller than it would be
>if I just cleaned it! But in answer to your question, yes...I have a smallish
>bedroom.
"Smallish" bedrooms would probably be a term that would apply to at
least 25% of the people reading this newsgroup. Many people would like
to have bigger homes IF they could afford them, so consider what they
have "smallish" bedrooms. Even if they don't !
Added to that, if a person is not married and living at home (as I
understand Jeff is) then they will probably NOT be sleeping in a
master (large) bedroom. So the percentage would be much higher.
>>2. Do you have a twin size bed?
>***Yes I do.
At a guess I imagine at least 50% of the readers here would say the
same.
>>3. Is your bed against the wall in a corner of the room?
>***The head of the bed rests against the middle of a wall, and it lays out from
>that point, like the form of a "T".
In other words "no".
>>4. Is there a guitar on the floor next to or leaning
>>against your bed?
If Clairity hadn't read Jeff's musical interests in previous posts
then that would be a very interesting comment. However, a guitar is
either on the floor OR leaning against a bed. By asking which it is
makes it sound as though it might be a guess.
>***Yes I do...when you said this, it really made my mouth drop! It usually
>leans against my bed or against my desk (next to my bed). This suprised me
>that you would know this because most people either keep their guitars in a
>case or on a stand....mine just leans against the desk or bedframe.
>>5. Are the sheets on your bed in disarray?
Asking a male whether his sheets are "in disarray" ? I don't think
anyone needs to go OOB to have a good idea what the answer would be
in most cases. Ask a female and the answer might be different. :-)
>***Oh yeah...in fact, I dont have any sheets on my bed. Its just an opened
>sleeping back that drapes over my bed. Very comfy and not difficult to
>straighten. However, I neevr straighten it out (because no one comes in my
>room but me), so its usually in disarray on my bed (until I straighten it out
>before bedtime).
A sleeping bag on a bed would be IMO rather uncommon. Something one
would have thought would be noticed if someone visited.
>>6. I saw no *heavy* bedspread or thick blanket on your bed, is
>>this correct?
>***The only thing I have on my bed is a dark colored (opened flat) sleeping bag
>that is draped over it. Nothing else, like sheets or comforters.
Unfortunately, if someone was skeptical of OOBs then they would simply
point out that that "observation" could apply to many readers here and
may simply have been a guess.
>>7. Did you sleep facing the wall this morning?
>***Well, my bed is in the middle of my room, so either way I face, it's not
>exactly next to a wall. The headboard touches the wall, but on either side of
>the bed, there is about 4 feet of space before the wall. I believe I woke up
>on my right side this morning
Most people tend to sleep on their sides so saying that they are
facing a wall, rather than a floor, or ceiling, would be a pretty safe
bet.
< snip >
I think from reading the above that one can see that if we are going
to visit someone OOB then we need to have something substantive to
report to avoid people accusing us of guessing.
If we aren't interested in helping people to get a stronger belief in
the possibility/reality of OOB experiences then of course it isn't an
issue. If however the opposite is being attempted then I would suggest
that people make a record of all the things they see that one would
NOT usually expect to see at a destination.
For example if I knew Jeff was single then I would probably NOT expect
to see a dress in his bedroom draped across a chair. If I saw one, and
told Jeff, and it happened to be correct, then I would expect that
this would prove very "interesting" for readers. :-)
Regards, John.
****************************************************
,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
/ Oz \ jo...@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309
\_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/
clai...@webtv.net
> jo...@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) wrote:
> On 9 Mar 1999 01:24:28 GMT, spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem)
> wrote:
> < snip >
> >Just to *clairify* (hehe), I got this email from Clairity in my mailbox,
> < snip >
> I think that sometimes it is a good idea to see things as others, even
> skeptics, may see things. We have enough skeptics accusing "believers"
> of being gullible without giving them more reasons for this opinion.
> If people think I do NOT think Clairity visited Jeff then they are
> free to think that. They can also believe the opposite.
SNIP
> I think from reading the above that one can see that if we are going
> to visit someone OOB then we need to have something substantive to
> report to avoid people accusing us of guessing.
SNIP
> If we aren't interested in helping people to get a stronger belief in
> the possibility/reality of OOB experiences then of course it isn't an
> issue. If however the opposite is being attempted then I would suggest
> that people make a record of all the things they see that one would
> NOT usually expect to see at a destination.
>
> For example if I knew Jeff was single then I would probably NOT expect
> to see a dress in his bedroom draped across a chair. If I saw one, and
> told Jeff, and it happened to be correct, then I would expect that
> this would prove very "interesting" for readers. :-)
John, I thought about addressing your issues point by point (i.e, that I
didn't know that Jeff lived with his parents, that I stated that the guitar
was on the floor next to or leaning against his bed, etc.) but then I decided
I was not going to defend myself.
I sent my observations in the form of questions to Jeff's PERSONAL email (he
chose to share it with the group). I deliberately did NOT post it to the
newsgroup as I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
possible. If that had been my intention, I would have then gone on what you
would call a FACT finding mission.
I knew that SOMEONE would take it upon themselves to pick it to pieces but I
have to admit that I was hurt when I saw that the someone was you. I know
that you claim that you are merely asking questions that *skeptics* would ask
and you claim that you aren't saying that I "did or I didn't" visit, but the
tone of your entire post was very obviously negative.
John, I have nothing to prove to anyone (as I stated this was a personal
email) and I was feeling very good about the experience and so was everyone
else who posted a reply so far. For those who don't wish to believe, feel
free not to (I know what I saw) and for those able to go OOBE (they know what
is possible). I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
from me (not even someone I admire).
Take care,
clai...@webtv.net
> hawk...@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
> On 9 Mar 1999 01:24:28 GMT, spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem) wrote
> out all Clairity's hits;
> Congratulations, Clairity, you can certainly do it!
> Were you projecting from sleep, dreams, obe or meditation? Your
> vision was very clear - did you try the 'Clairity now!@ technique?!
> Well done, Jeff, for being a good receiver. Did you sense her
> arrival and presence at all?
> If more of us in this newsgroup practice doing this kind of thing,
> we can all discover just how easy and successful it is to travel
> out-of-body. How many times did you try before this success?
> Jean Galliano had us pairing up to visit together some time ago; it
> is an excellent technique, and as you can see, produces real results
> on which you can build your confidence. After a string of hits like
> this, you can do anything you please!
> All best wishes and congratulations, Julia.
Julia, thanks so much! I have read your posts about visiting others and
pulling them out and I always thought that it must be so wonderful to be to
accomplish such a thing!!
I experienced a false awakening and went from there. My vision was perfectly
clear until I started to fade toward the end and then nothing I said could
keep me there! :-(
This was my first *real* attempt, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to do
it again, but I feel very blessed to have had the experience!
Thanks for the kind words!
clai...@webtv.net
> x...@xxx.xxx (SUNEYE) wrote:
*SNIP*
> Congratulations, I knew Clairity had it in her. She is very
> persistent. Keep up the good work Clairity.
>
> Joe Russa (SUNEYE)
> sun...@earthlink.net
> ('Home of The SUNEYE Method')
> http://fly.to/suneye
> http://travel.to/suneye (mirror site)
Thank you Joe! I used the SUNEYE method, so I couldn't have done it without
you!! ;-)
Take care!
SUNEYE
>email) and I was feeling very good about the experience and so was everyone
>else who posted a reply so far. For those who don't wish to believe, feel
>free not to (I know what I saw) and for those able to go OOBE (they know what
>is possible). I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
>from me (not even someone I admire).
You are right Clairity, you have nothing to prove. You yourself know
that the experience is genuine. I know John, he is always testing
people and their knowledge. Not because he think lesser of you nor
because he thinks he is better. It is because he wants to keep you on
your toes. Maybe in an weird kind of way, he wants you to challenge
yourself.
Anyway, I was impressed by the results. You have come a long way so
fast. I remember when you were asking information to learn how to
induce willful OBEs.
I really would not mind working with you in the near future for some
controlled experiments. First, I would need to get my new schedule
balanced.
Anyway, you yourself know that your experience was genuine and need to
keep on with your experiments. The OBE is a personal experience and
self-satisfaction and knowledge is what makes me a better person.
clai...@webtv.net
> x...@xxx.xxx (SUNEYE) wrote:
Joe, thanks for the kind supportive words (I do appreciate them)! Yes I have
come along way but I have SO much farther yet to go.
I would not mind working with you either if you'd like.. but please know that
I am still not able to have OOBEs/Lucid Dreams every time I try for them (out
of say 9 tries, in a good month I may only be successful 4 or 5 times..
knock on wood). ;-)
Thanks again for your vote of confidence!
Ian Gogay
Well done to the pair of you. I hope to see you out there soon. ;-)
Ian G.
--
A man who admits to lying,
is more truthful than most!
IAG 1990
SUNEYE
Clairity, if I may ask, how is your sleep schedule? Are you sleeping
around the same time everyday for the same length of time. For
example, I sleep around 10:00 PM everynight (give or take 15 minutes).
Also, in your second phase of sleep, do you have sufficient lighting?
John Fitzsimons
Hi Clairity,
>> jo...@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) wrote:
>> On 9 Mar 1999 01:24:28 GMT, spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem)
>> wrote:
< snip >
>John, I thought about addressing your issues point by point (i.e, that I
>didn't know that Jeff lived with his parents, that I stated that the guitar
Fine, but anyone who has read this newsgroup for a while knows a fair
bit about Jeff. IMO we should keep in mind that people can, and do,
accuse us of getting our "psychic information" from more mundane
sources. Why give these people that opportunity if we can find some
way to avoid this ?
>was on the floor next to or leaning against his bed, etc.) but then I decided
>I was not going to defend myself.
>I sent my observations in the form of questions to Jeff's PERSONAL email (he
>chose to share it with the group). I deliberately did NOT post it to the
>newsgroup as I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
>interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
>possible. If that had been my intention, I would have then gone on what you
>would call a FACT finding mission.
Yes, I am aware of that fact. IMO nobody should post private emails
without the poster's express permission. That having been said however
the post was put in the newsgroup.
>I knew that SOMEONE would take it upon themselves to pick it to pieces but I
>have to admit that I was hurt when I saw that the someone was you. I know
>that you claim that you are merely asking questions that *skeptics* would ask
>and you claim that you aren't saying that I "did or I didn't" visit, but the
>tone of your entire post was very obviously negative.
There is no need to be "hurt". If a skeptic had commented then you
would certainly have had a much tougher time of it. As it was the post
was not about you at all. It was about people's approaches to getting
people thinking about OOBs.
Joe Russa (SUNEYE) saw things correctly and managed to make a few very
constructive comments on this thread. Perhaps you could read his post
again ?
>John, I have nothing to prove to anyone (as I stated this was a personal
>email) and I was feeling very good about the experience and so was everyone
>else who posted a reply so far. For those who don't wish to believe, feel
>free not to (I know what I saw) and for those able to go OOBE (they know what
>is possible). I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
>from me (not even someone I admire).
There is no need to feel defensive. Nobody was asking you to prove
anything. My comments were talking about situations where someone
"might" like to use their experiences as some sort of "proof" or "food
for thought". No "offense" was intended. :-)
>Take care,
>Clairity
Julia Hawkes-Moore
Fitzsimons) wrote:
>Fine, but anyone who has read this newsgroup for a while knows a fair
>bit about Jeff. IMO we should keep in mind that people can, and do,
>accuse us of getting our "psychic information" from more mundane
>sources. Why give these people that opportunity if we can find some
>way to avoid this ?
John, no-one but you has done any accusing. Clairity and Jeff
shared a marvellous experience, yet you dive in to attack everything
that Clairity wrote. Jeff was the only person in any position to
correct any errors, and did so, yet you came crashing in with your
unwelcome critique.
In this newsgroup, we share interesting experiences, thoughts and
questions - all except you. For over a year now, I have watched you
being consistently negative, critical, and aggressive in an elegantly
psuedo-intellectual manner. You have never posted an original
experience or question of your own. You have never posted a supportive
or enthusiastic word. You have never participated in any of the group
attempts to develop and practice the group aim - out of body travel.
Your only participatory effort is to reply to posts redirecting people
back to your rather dull vicnet page, as though the information there
is the be-all and end-all, and should not be considered open for
discussion, variation or development in any way. By doing so you pose
as an authority yet you permit no questioning of that pose. You have
only once posted something approximating to a joke or displayed any
good humour at all.
As Clairity said:
>> I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
>>interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
>>possible. If that had been my intention, I would have then gone on what you
>>would call a FACT finding mission.
Yet you persisted in disregarding her categorical statement by
writing:
>There is no need to be "hurt". If a skeptic had commented then you
>would certainly have had a much tougher time of it. As it was the post
>was not about you at all. It was about people's approaches to getting
>people thinking about OOBs.
Oh, bullshit, John. This is no place for sceptics, real or pretend.
They have their own newsgroups where they indulge one another in their
nasty paranoid one-upmanship. Stay there with them, John, your
attitude in this newsgroup is unhelpful and tedious. There are words
for people like you, and they include;
wet blanket; spoilsport, damper, killjoy, dog in the manger, thwarter,
frustrator, saboteur, heckler, intruder, gremlin, bore.
Well done, Clairity, for replying:
>> I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
>>from me (not even someone I admire).
The day that John posts something constructive, innovative,
interesting and positive is the day that I will consider admiring him.
Until that day, I suggest you disregard his silly little interjections
and get on with the real business of this newsgroup.
Fly on, Clairity, 'illegitemiti nil carborundum'!
All best wishes, Julia.
Lee W
As I havent had an OOBE yet I cant speak from experience but John has a
point so its not bullshit. I'm not a total sceptic but until I have an OOBE
I am certainly not a believer. John is correct that there will be a few
sceptics around who may think that the Jeff/Clarity trip may not be 100% hit
and more details should be given in future experiences even though it may
prove difficult. Seems to me Julia you are losing your touch as you usually
give everyone your wisdom, but now you start to slag John off. Its not that
time of the month is it? He always gives useful advice and opinions. I
enjoy reading all posts in this group and of the experiences and hope that
one day I can join you all out there.
Lee.
Happy2ceu
>time of the month is it?
I don't think that just because Julia happens to have an opinion, that her
menstruation cycle, need be dragged into this. A tad shallow, don't you think?
Sincerely,
Laura :)
which by the way, everyday is my time of the month,week,year,decade,century,
and the list goes on.
Lee W
>menstruation cycle, need be dragged into this. A tad shallow, don't you
think?
Hi,
No, its a scientific fact :).
Lee.
clai...@webtv.net
hawk...@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
Julia, thank you.. I am so new at this and, as such, it doesn't take much to
make me question myself.. but I have NO doubt with regards to this
experience. When I saw this reply from John I had pretty much decided that if
I ever did try to visit Jeff (or anyone else.. sorry Jim) that the LAST thing
I would do is share it with the newsgroup. Why would anyone want to open
themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
or as a delusion. But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was
about either.
I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or wish
to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not let me
down. ;-)
Julia, I cannot disagree with a single thing that you wrote here and I
appreciate your putting into words pretty much how I was feeling. I will keep
posting for those who choose to read and to believe and, if I fall short of my
intended target, I will take it as just one more baby step in my never ending
astral journey.
Julia, maybe I'll see you at Jim's! But if I don't, believe me.. my heart was
there!!
Spicy Jem
<Clairity Said:>
>>I sent my observations in the form of questions to Jeff's PERSONAL email (he
>>chose to share it with the group). I deliberately did NOT post it to the
>>newsgroup as I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
>>interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
>>possible..
>
<John Said:>
>Yes, I am aware of that fact. IMO nobody should post private emails
>without the poster's express permission. That having been said however
>the post was put in the newsgroup.
Okay, now I feel like complete and utter crap! For the record, let me just say
that I agree with both Clairity AND John.
Clairity, I never meant for this post to put you in an uncomfortable situation,
and for that, I can't tell you how sorry I am (and how much I kick myself in
the butt). Ouch! I can tell you (and everyone else) that the reason why I
posted it was because her post hit home with me. There may be skeptics out
there who see this as nothing more but a vague attempt for us to prove the
validity of OOBE's. But I could care less what people think. Just as those
would like to say, "Well, if OOBE's are nothing more than your vivid
imagination, then what is the purpose of them?" And my answer would be, "Who
cares! If my vivid imagination is able to take me to different worlds, see my
dead family, and make me a better spiritual person, then it's of no concern to
you." This kind of stretches back to my belief about different religions. If
your Christian, dont point a finger at a Buddist and accuse him of dogmatic
practices or idolic worship. If it takes *that* individual to worship Buddha
in order to make him feel "whole and complete", then GREAT! If only everyone
could be happy on this earth.....who cares what method they go about doing it,
as long as they dont step on others while getting to their destination. With
that said, I only posted this personal email because it meant something to me
and Clairity. I know that she isnt someone who is trying to gather past
information about me in this NG and fabricate it into some false OOBE story in
order to look as if she made contact with me. Granted, skeptics would take
that approach, but hey, that's their stand on the siuation.
John, I also see where you are coming from. Kind of playing the devils
advocate, if you'll pardon the expression! Hehe! Doing a damn good job at it
too! <smile> I respect that as well, because you make me see how close minded
skeptics can be...EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOUR NOT. You showed us the other side of
the cards, and I think we may all be able to learn from this.
Again, sorry for turning this into a soap opera of sorts! I will definately
get the permission from the original poster before I decide to post anything in
the NG.
Happy2ceu
>
>
oh wow....slappin' my head like I shoulda had a V--8...
Now I get it.
( major eyeball roll )
Laura
clai...@webtv.net
happ...@aol.com (Happy2ceu) wrote:
> > Its not that time of the month is it?
> I don't think that just because Julia happens to have an opinion, that her
> menstruation cycle needs be dragged into this. A tad shallow, don't you think?
I agree.. this comment was neither constructive nor helpful.
> Sincerely,
> Laura :)
> which by the way, everyday is my time of the month,week,year,decade,century,
> and the list goes on.
Clairity (hi Laura!)
clai...@webtv.net
> >> x...@xxx.xxx (SUNEYE) wrote:
> >> >John, I have nothing to prove to anyone (as I stated this was a personal
> >> >email) and I was feeling very good about the experience and so was
> >> >everyone else who posted a reply so far. For those who don't wish to
> >> >believe, feel free not to (I know what I saw) and for those able to go
> >> >OOBE (they know what is possible). I am not going to be crushed or let
> >> >anyone take this experience from me (not even someone I admire).
> >> You are right Clairity, you have nothing to prove. You yourself know
> Clairity, if I may ask, how is your sleep schedule? Are you sleeping
> around the same time everyday for the same length of time. For
> example, I sleep around 10:00 PM everynight (give or take 15 minutes).
> Also, in your second phase of sleep, do you have sufficient lighting?
> Joe Russa (SUNEYE)
> sun...@earthlink.net
> ('Home of The SUNEYE Method')
> http://fly.to/suneye
> http://travel.to/suneye (mirror site)
Joe, I go to bed around 11pm every night and I wake up around 5:00am every
morning for work. When I try for OOBEs/Lucid Dreams on the weekends, I still
wake up at 5:00am but I stay up for an hour and then go to my couch in the
living room. I put in my earplugs and I dim my overhead lights slightly.
I'm not sure what you mean by sufficient lighting (but the lights are not so
dim that I am unable to read something should I choose to).
Hope this is what you need! ;-)
Clairity
clai...@webtv.net
> Well done to the pair of you. I hope to see you out there soon. ;-)
> Ian G.
Ian, thanks so much!! Some of us are thinking of visiting Jim... once we
decide on the date/details, if the spirits are willing, maybe we'll see you
there! ;-D
clai...@webtv.net
spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem) wrote:
> > Clairity wrote:
*snippity*
> > I went to bed at 11pm and got up at 5am. The tv was on but I still read
> > about OOBEs for about an hour. I then went back to bed about 6am and
> > studied your picture for a few minutes. I dimmed the lights and did the
> > Third Eye technique for 5 minutes stating that "everything is a dream" and
> > "I will realize that I am dreaming". I find this works for me as I always
> > fall asleep but then wake up minutes later in a false awakening.. and I just
> > go from there.
> When you say "false awakening", do you mean that you feel like you have woken
> up, but yet, still realize that you are dreaming? Almost like an LD?
> Jeff Mash
Exactly so! ;-) It's as if I suddenly become "aware" that I am in my physical
body and mistakenly think that I am awake.. but in reality only my
consciousness is awake (my body is not). At first I used to think that I had
blown my chance and simply "went back to sleep", but with practice I have
learned to recognize the subtle distinctive differences and feelings between
a false awakening and a true awakening and have been able to get "out".
Take care Jeff!
Happy2ceu
Hi Clairity!!
>I agree.. this comment was neither constructive nor helpful.
ditto...I would most definately guard against such thoughts as these, or else
I would be afraid that on my first obe, that I might find myself soaring
through the universe on a jet sized, astral propelled kotex...
Laura :)
Spicy Jem
>> When you say "false awakening", do you mean that you feel like you have
>woken
>> up, but yet, still realize that you are dreaming? Almost like an LD?
>
>> Jeff Mash
>
>Exactly so! ;-) It's as if I suddenly become "aware" that I am in my physical
>body and mistakenly think that I am awake.. but in reality only my
>consciousness is awake (my body is not). At first I used to think that I had
>blown my chance and simply "went back to sleep", but with practice I have
>learned to recognize the subtle distinctive differences and feelings between
>a false awakening and a true awakening and have been able to get "out".
Okay...then this is what I have always been calling, "Snap into consciousness".
I never called it a "False Awakening" because in my reality, I AM
awake......my body may not be, but my awareness is. I uess I always figured
that if it was called FALSE awakening, then it would only *seem* like I was
awake when I really wasnt.
It's really the same thing though, now that I look at it. Glad I got that
straightened out in my head! Here I was thinking, "Gee, I never have false
awakenings", when in reality, I have had them everytime I went to go OOB!
Lee W
No offence intended by my posting. I was trying to lighten up the post
after what John wrote. I do agree with what he says. I do also believe
what Clarity said. I suppose I'd better start to wear phsic protection in
case I get an astral visit from you :).
Lee
Ian Gogay
ROTFL Now, that would give the UFO buffs something to talk about.
;-)
Ian G.
--
Y2K problems! What are they?
Powered by Amiga.
John Fitzsimons
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:31:32 GMT, jo...@melbpc.org.au (John
>Fitzsimons) wrote:
>>Fine, but anyone who has read this newsgroup for a while knows a fair
>>bit about Jeff. IMO we should keep in mind that people can, and do,
>>accuse us of getting our "psychic information" from more mundane
>>sources. Why give these people that opportunity if we can find some
>>way to avoid this ?
> John, no-one but you has done any accusing.
Perhaps you should read what I said rather than what you think I
said ? Maybe you are having difficulties with the notion of
"objectivity" ? :-)
>Clairity and Jeff
>shared a marvellous experience, yet you dive in to attack everything
>that Clairity wrote. Jeff was the only person in any position to
>correct any errors, and did so, yet you came crashing in with your
>unwelcome critique.
Unwelcome to you perhaps. People who would like to help others to
believe in OOBs however may have found it welcome.
If you are only interested in talking to the "true believers", and
gullible people, then that is fine. Your choice. I think however that
people could think about sharing their experiences with people who
don't fall into the above categories. :-)
> In this newsgroup, we share interesting experiences, thoughts and
>questions - all except you. For over a year now, I have watched you
>being consistently negative, critical, and aggressive in an elegantly
>psuedo-intellectual manner.
Let's see, are you the same person who said :
>This is an ancient pre-Judao/Christian/Moslem matriarchal ethic.
> Mothers teach and share, nurture and heal. Fathers visit occasionally
> and assume a show of glory and superior knowledge.
What did Claire say about that ?
"It sounds to me like you have a problem with male figures, Julia."
Maybe you would think I was a "nice guy".......if I wasn't male ?
< ROFL >
>You have never posted an original
>experience or question of your own. You have never posted a supportive
>or enthusiastic word. You have never participated in any of the group
>attempts to develop and practice the group aim - out of body travel.
Is that the aim of this newsgroup ? Golly, I thought it might have
simply been a forum for you to talk about your home renovations etc.
AND of course yourself.
What did Paul say about *your* postings ? In reply to your comment
>I don't like to argue, but my, how I do like to discuss.
"You missed the word, 'myself' off the end of the last sentence."
:-)
>Your only participatory effort is to reply to posts redirecting people
>back to your rather dull vicnet page,
If you think my web pages are dull then I suggest you ignore them. :-)
>as though the information there
>is the be-all and end-all, and should not be considered open for
>discussion, variation or development in any way.
< ROFL > What a dopey comment. If people have suggestions for my web
pages then I am happy to hear them. People here know my email address
if they want to make suggestions. I am happy to receive any
constructive feedback.
>By doing so you pose
>as an authority yet you permit no questioning of that pose.
People constantly question me. You obviously aren't paying much
attention to my posts. This isn't the only newsgroup I post in.
>You have
>only once posted something approximating to a joke or displayed any
>good humour at all.
I wasn't aware that alt.out-of-body was a jokes newsgroup. I thought
that it was for discussion on OOBs. Silly me. The title really threw
me. :-)
> As Clairity said:
>>> I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
>>>interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
>>>possible. If that had been my intention, I would have then gone on what you
>>>would call a FACT finding mission.
> Yet you persisted in disregarding her categorical statement by
>writing:
>>There is no need to be "hurt". If a skeptic had commented then you
>>would certainly have had a much tougher time of it. As it was the post
>>was not about you at all. It was about people's approaches to getting
>>people thinking about OOBs.
> Oh, bullshit, John. This is no place for sceptics, real or pretend.
Why not join the "real world" Julia ? Skeptics post in all of the
paranormal newsgroups from time to time. We constantly have people
discussing Randi challenges etc. even here.
Clarity may be in a position to help many people who aren't "true
believers". I suggested things that might help her/others to achieve
that goal. She is free however to not see that as any sort of a goal
for herself.
>They have their own newsgroups where they indulge one another in their
>nasty paranoid one-upmanship. Stay there with them, John, your
>attitude in this newsgroup is unhelpful and tedious. There are words
>for people like you, and they include;
>wet blanket; spoilsport, damper, killjoy, dog in the manger, thwarter,
>frustrator, saboteur, heckler, intruder, gremlin, bore.
Now that isn't very lady like. Didn't your parents teach you any
manners ? :-)
If you want to only preach to the "believers" then you are welcome to.
I believe however that people here could think about having their
experiences mean something to non-believers.
> Well done, Clairity, for replying:
>>> I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
>>>from me (not even someone I admire).
> The day that John posts something constructive, innovative,
>interesting and positive is the day that I will consider admiring him.
You are the "authority" on "constructive posts eh ? Wasn't it you who
said :
"I taught at another school for several years, and was shocked by
the ineptitude of the majority of the teachers there."
When you discussed how "inferior" your boyfriends were you went on to
say ;
"I spent twenty years assessing men for potential fatherhood
quality, and I only found a few to whom I would be happy to entrust
full-time nurturing of my (or anyone's) children."
Or were you simply pointing out that almost all men are "inferior" ?
In your opinion.
>Until that day, I suggest you disregard his silly little interjections
>and get on with the real business of this newsgroup.
> Fly on, Clairity, 'illegitemiti nil carborundum'!
>All best wishes, Julia.
I made it quite clear to Clairity why I posted. If she chooses to take
offense then there is nothing I can do about that. If she wants to
talk to me she knows that I am quite happy to talk to her here, or by
private email. If she wants you to speak for her then I expect that
she may tell us so.
I will not have the last say regarding your little outburst. To quote
Paul again ;
"Julia, you most certainly admire and take yourself very seriously
don't you?"
What did he say about your posts again ? Oh yes, "This article is
another of your love-letters to yourself."
Julia Hawkes-Moore
Fitzsimons) wrote:
>Perhaps you should read what I said rather than what you think I
>said ? Maybe you are having difficulties with the notion of
>"objectivity" ? :-)
John, 'objectivity' is not my mantra, and I really don't think it's
yours either. What you wrote was a direct attempt to 'debunk' or
demolish the marvellous experience which Clairity and Jeff had seen
fit to share. Over the last year, I have seen you reply to every
'first' or new experience with a similar attack. You did it to me, and
if it still stings me then it certainly hurts other people when you do
it to them. Clairity confirmed this. Your method stinks of bullying to
me. Although I may sometimes be guided not to defend myself from
attack, I damn well will stand up and defend vulnerable, hurt members
of this group from bullies.
>If you are only interested in talking to the "true believers", and
>gullible people, then that is fine. Your choice. I think however that
>people could think about sharing their experiences with people who
>don't fall into the above categories. :-)
John, you spend too much time 'categorising' people and producing
lists. Start listening to the people and you may eventually observe
that everyone has many subtle shades of meaning, most dependent upon
the context.
>Let's see, are you the same person who said :>
>>This is an ancient pre-Judao/Christian/Moslem matriarchal ethic.
>> Mothers teach and share, nurture and heal. Fathers visit occasionally
>> and assume a show of glory and superior knowledge.
What did I just say about context, Unoriginal John? Do they ever
teach you any world history over there in Australia? Go, on, find a
public library and start researching social anthropology. I'm sure you
will find it interesting. Meanwhile, that phrase belongs in a past
context, and is irrelevant to this.
>Maybe you would think I was a "nice guy".......if I wasn't male ?
>< ROFL >
Ooh, John have you 'chosen' to be hurt by what I wrote. Why didn't
you 'choose' to not be hurt, then?
The simple truth is that nobody chooses to be hurt (unless they
have a slightly sick brain) but everyone - even you - can be wounded
when a bully throws stones at them. Now that you know how it feels to
be hurt, perhaps you will restrain your hectoring tone next time
someone shares a new and vulnerable experience with the group. Please.
>>You have never posted an original
>>experience or question of your own.
>What did Paul say about *your* postings ?
My point exactly.
>< ROFL > What a dopey comment. If people have suggestions for my web
>pages then I am happy to hear them. People here know my email address
>if they want to make suggestions. I am happy to receive any
>constructive feedback.
But other people are unhappy to receive the destructive feedback you
post. Come on, John, communication is a two-way process.
>>By doing so you pose
>>as an authority yet you permit no questioning of that pose.
>
>People constantly question me. You obviously aren't paying much
>attention to my posts. This isn't the only newsgroup I post in.
And bizarrely, I haven't bothered to go and read every one of your
posts in every other newsgroup on the net. No doubt you are highly
respected in every other existing group, but as far as the issue
concerns this one, I would like you to reconsider your approach.
>>You have
>>only once posted something approximating to a joke or displayed any
>>good humour at all.
>
>I wasn't aware that alt.out-of-body was a jokes newsgroup. I thought
>that it was for discussion on OOBs. Silly me. The title really threw
>me. :-)
>>>There is no need to be "hurt".
Hurt is not a necessity. It is an emotion. Even the Vulcans on Star
Trek have a hard time controlling their emotions. Mere humans get hurt
easily, so other humans try to be kind. Civilisation ensues.
>> Oh, bullshit, John. This is no place for sceptics, real or pretend.
>
>Why not join the "real world" Julia ? Skeptics post in all of the
>paranormal newsgroups from time to time. We constantly have people
>discussing Randi challenges etc. even here.
So what? People like Paul G pop in and out; you, John, hang on in
there. If you have made yourself a permanent presence, then you colour
the 'tone' of the group. A resident sceptic who discusses spiritual
issues is a tautology. A spiritualist who attacks vulnerable newly
released spirits seems like a Bad Thing to me. Is that why you use all
that psychic protection, John? To protect us from you? It's slipping.
>>There are words
>>for people like you, and they include;
>>wet blanket; spoilsport, damper, killjoy, dog in the manger, thwarter,
>>frustrator, saboteur, heckler, intruder, gremlin, bore.
>
>Now that isn't very lady like. Didn't your parents teach you any
>manners ? :-)
They also taught me to use words aptly.
>If you want to only preach to the "believers" then you are welcome to.
>I believe however that people here could think about having their
>experiences mean something to non-believers.
John, this group is 90% 'believers' ! (Whatever that means.) The
floating 10% come and go. The incident was not posted to convert
others, any more than a parable could. But if a parable is intriguing
enough, then a new listener might choose to hang around and hear more.
If some great bully lumbers in and throws stones at the teller of the
parable, then the listener will wander off and find something more
interesting to do, something that won't expose him to a similar
stoning in the future. As a member of the audience listening to that
parable, I personally would like to hear more. So I defend the teller
from the bully.
Believers/non-believers? You are pigeon-holing again, John.
More unoriginal regurgitation snipped.
>I made it quite clear to Clairity why I posted. If she chooses to take
>offense then there is nothing I can do about that. If she wants to
>talk to me she knows that I am quite happy to talk to her here, or by
>private email. If she wants you to speak for her then I expect that
>she may tell us so.
Nonsense, John. As I said before, no-one 'chooses' to take
offence. They just get hurt, even you. There is something you can do
about someone getting hurt, which is that you can heal them of their
pain. Or do you have so much psychic protection wrapped around you
that you can't lean out and give healing? Come on, John, unwind a
little...
>>To quote Paul again ;
Yawn. Even the guardian angel of my computer excised Paul G's posts,
and his presence too if I'm not mistaken. If I was guided not to reply
to his nastiness at the time, then I certainly won't bother now.
I did fly to Melbourne to discuss your attack on Clairity 'face to
face' as it were, before I wrote my post to you. But when I located
you, you were entirely enveloped in a dull grey buzzing cloud. So you
can be certain that your psychic protection works. Why you need quite
so much of it, however, I would suggest is a question which you
discuss with your guardian angels.
All best wishes, Julia.
clai...@webtv.net
happ...@aol.com (Happy2ceu) wrote:
> >Clairity (hi Laura!)
>
> Hi Clairity!!
>
> >I agree.. this comment was neither constructive nor helpful.
>
> ditto...I would most definately guard against such thoughts as these, or else
> I would be afraid that on my first obe, that I might find myself soaring
> through the universe on a jet sized, astral propelled kotex...
LOOK..up in the SKY! It's a BIRD, it's a PLANE, it's SUPER..absorbent maxi
pa.. EEEWWWWWWWWW! ;-D
LOL!!!
clai...@webtv.net
Hi Lee! The mood definately could use some lightening! But don't worry, I
would never show up on someone's "doorstep" unannounced or uninvited! I think
we all pretty much feel that way (common astral courtesy you know)! ;-)
Take care!
clai...@webtv.net
spic...@aol.comJokeMail (Spicy Jem) wrote:
> Dear Clairity and John,
> <Clairity Said:>
> >>I sent my observations in the form of questions to Jeff's PERSONAL email (he
> >>chose to share it with the group). I deliberately did NOT post it to the
> >>newsgroup as I was NOT trying to PROVE anything to anyone nor was I
> >>interested in helping people build up their beliefs that such things were
> >>possible..
> <John Said:>
> >Yes, I am aware of that fact. IMO nobody should post private emails
> >without the poster's express permission. That having been said however
> >the post was put in the newsgroup.
>
> Okay, now I feel like complete and utter crap!
Please don't.
> For the record, let me just say that I agree with both Clairity AND John.
> Clairity, I never meant for this post to put you in an uncomfortable
> situation, and for that, I can't tell you how sorry I am (and how much I kick
> myself in the butt). Ouch!
Jeff, there is no need to feel this way. As I told you via email.. I am in NO
way, shape or form angry with you. You were excited and you wanted to share
that excitement with the newsgroup.. I can understand that perfectly.
> I can tell you (and everyone else) that the reason why I
> posted it was because her post hit home with me. There may be skeptics out
> there who see this as nothing more but a vague attempt for us to prove the
> validity of OOBE's. But I could care less what people think. Just as those
> would like to say, "Well, if OOBE's are nothing more than your vivid
> imagination, then what is the purpose of them?" And my answer would be, "Who
> cares! If my vivid imagination is able to take me to different worlds, see my
> dead family, and make me a better spiritual person, then it's of no concern to
> you." This kind of stretches back to my belief about different religions. If
> your Christian, dont point a finger at a Buddist and accuse him of dogmatic
> practices or idolic worship. If it takes *that* individual to worship Buddha
> in order to make him feel "whole and complete", then GREAT! If only everyone
> could be happy on this earth.....who cares what method they go about doing it,
> as long as they dont step on others while getting to their destination. With
> that said, I only posted this personal email because it meant something to me
> and Clairity. I know that she isnt someone who is trying to gather past
> information about me in this NG and fabricate it into some false OOBE story in
> order to look as if she made contact with me. Granted, skeptics would take
> that approach, but hey, that's their stand on the siuation.
You TELL 'em Jeff! ;-)
> John, I also see where you are coming from. Kind of playing the devils
> advocate, if you'll pardon the expression! Hehe! Doing a damn good job at it
> too! <smile> I respect that as well, because you make me see how close
> minded skeptics can be...EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOUR NOT. You showed us the other
> side of the cards, and I think we may all be able to learn from this.
I know I learned something...
> Again, sorry for turning this into a soap opera of sorts! I will definately
> get the permission from the original poster before I decide to post anything
> in the NG.
> Jeff Mash
I need (nor expect) an apology Jeff..
Take care (see you soon?) ;-D
J L Williams
from clai...@webtv.net contains these words:
<great big snip>
Sorry if I'm butting in here Clairity but I hate to see you getting
so upset over a misconception of what was your description of your
visit to Jeff's room. It was a first for you and you needed
encouragement and nurturing noises ;) and you got something that was
not expected. When I did that, I had a sympathetic ear from Richard
Silk and nurturing noises from a couple of quarters, especially from
Julia (thanks Julia) who had already done similar and knew what I
said was true. BTW I had not read anything (well, not retained
anything anyway) about Silk's abode before my visit.
> Julia, thank you.. I am so new at this and, as such, it doesn't take much to
> make me question myself.. but I have NO doubt with regards to this
> experience.
This must be what you hold onto, nobody can take this away.
> When I saw this reply from John I had pretty much decided that if
> I ever did try to visit Jeff (or anyone else.. sorry Jim) that the LAST thing
> I would do is share it with the newsgroup.
Please, please, please always share with the group. We are quite
capable of taking the views expressed here from whence they came and
for what they were intended to be. I think that you lovely young
ladies are such terrific emotional sensitive beings and were sent
here to compliment us more factual and hardened males (well, it's no
good sending emotional and sensitive men to battle on your behalf is it?)
> Why would anyone want to open
> themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
This was indirect, assuming sceptics about! (yes I know and aggree-who cares?)
> If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
> ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
> or as a delusion. But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was
> about either.
Very true......how can we believe anybody's obe, ld, astral travel
etc etc if we cannot take their word for it?
> I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
> posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or wish
> to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not let me
> down. ;-)
Well you have my congratulations, support and encouragement. I can
tell from your excitement that there was no hidden agenda-that it was
straight as it happened. Don't be disheartened. In fact feel great!
It happened!
> Julia, I cannot disagree with a single thing that you wrote here and I
> appreciate your putting into words pretty much how I was feeling. I will keep
> posting for those who choose to read and to believe and, if I fall short of my
> intended target, I will take it as just one more baby step in my never ending
> astral journey.
Now you are talking girl! Go for it :)
> Julia, maybe I'll see you at Jim's! But if I don't, believe me.. my heart was
> there!!
That's the spirit-ooooooppps-did i say that? Teh heh, see what I mean?
Regards
Jim
PS What time would be most convenient for all around the clock/globe?
I can and will organise a couple of different times of one hour
duration meditation here to help all to *tune in*
Neil Franklin
>
> I ever did try to visit Jeff (or anyone else.. sorry Jim) that the LAST thing
> themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
No one would want to do that. But many a person would want to open
themselves up to tell others about what has happened to them. To
encourage them to follow.
Actually such meeting success posts are the best this group has to
offer. And the personal ones are often better than the organised
expeditions.
As a life-long serious skeptic I have found that these posts are the
best ones at crearing the fog. Julias "pulling out" of Beth and the
"Silks fire" episode were the best posts at undoing skepticism I ever
saw.
I certainly enjoyed your/Jeffs post a lot. It came just after having
lost access to alt.out-of-body for 10 days. Then it came back to ny
newsfeed and with it this beautyfull post. That simply made my day.
Now I can give thanks to you and Jeff, I have annother such great post.
I nominate it best post of the month.
> If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
> ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
> or as a delusion. But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was
> about either.
Is isn't about that. So be sure, most of us do want to hear of the
unusual stuff.
> I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
> posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or wish
> to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not let me
> down. ;-)
Encouragement, of which I send you here a few kilobytes.
--
Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic
ne...@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/
uNsTable - usable = NT
John Fitzsimons
>In article <36e7b0e...@news.dial.pipex.com>,
> hawk...@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
< snip >
>Julia, thank you.. I am so new at this and, as such, it doesn't take much to
>make me question myself.. but I have NO doubt with regards to this
>experience. When I saw this reply from John I had pretty much decided that if
>I ever did try to visit Jeff (or anyone else.. sorry Jim) that the LAST thing
>I would do is share it with the newsgroup.
A pity. There are a number of people reading this newsgroup who would
think a lot more seriously about the possibility of OOBs being "valid"
if they saw some good examples of people having done this.
>Why would anyone want to open
>themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
IF you read my post properly then you would have seen ways to avoid
this situation. You appear to have preferred however to take offense
than listen to the recommendations I made. A pity. Now people who
could have been helped by you reporting accurate details in OOBs will
miss out.
>If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
>ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
>or as a delusion.
True. That is why I made the recommendations I did. If one were to
follow them then the ability for people to make these comments would
greatly reduce.
>But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was about either.
Whether one likes it or not skeptics DO read these newsgroups.
Including this one. I am not concerned particularly about those types
however. I believe that a number of "lurkers" are unconvinced either
way. It is these people who could be helped if there was some evidence
that could not be easily refuted.
>I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
>posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or wish
>to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not let me
>down. ;-)
Nobody suggested you were pulling wool over anyone's eyes. I am
disappointed however that the only thing you seem to have wanted was a
pat on the back. So many people here could be helped by accurate OOB
reporting.
>Julia, I cannot disagree with a single thing that you wrote here and I
>appreciate your putting into words pretty much how I was feeling. I will keep
>posting for those who choose to read and to believe and, if I fall short of my
>intended target, I will take it as just one more baby step in my never ending
>astral journey.
Perhaps thinking more of helping people who are new to the idea of
OOBs, and less about your wounded pride, might be an idea ?
< snip >
John Fitzsimons
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:05:37 GMT, jo...@melbpc.org.au (John
>Fitzsimons) wrote:
>>Perhaps you should read what I said rather than what you think I
>>said ? Maybe you are having difficulties with the notion of
>>"objectivity" ? :-)
> John, 'objectivity' is not my mantra,
True. :-)
>and I really don't think it's
>yours either. What you wrote was a direct attempt to 'debunk' or
>demolish the marvellous experience which Clairity and Jeff had seen
>fit to share.
Grow up Julia. You are not John Fitzsimons. Don;'t pretend that you
know what he does better than he does. By all means explain what Julia
is on about but don't bother making a fool of yourself by supposing to
speak for me. Had I intended to debunk Clairity's post then I would
have been nowhere as "subtle". The post was about how people report
their OOB experiences. You can repeat your rants as much as you like
but misrepresenting things like you are is quite pointless.
>Over the last year, I have seen you reply to every
>'first' or new experience with a similar attack. You did it to me, and
>if it still stings me then it certainly hurts other people when you do
>it to them. Clairity confirmed this. Your method stinks of bullying to
>me. Although I may sometimes be guided not to defend myself from
>attack, I damn well will stand up and defend vulnerable, hurt members
>of this group from bullies.
Fine, I suggest however you go find yourself some bullies first. Your
bullying people yourself is just a waste of time. I expect that many
people here are more interested in learning about OOBs than who
you "do" or "do not" approve of.
< snip >
> The simple truth is that nobody chooses to be hurt
Rubbish. Clairity "chose" to be hurt. She could however have listened
to the advice suggested and used it to better help other people.
< snip >
>>< ROFL > What a dopey comment. If people have suggestions for my web
>>pages then I am happy to hear them. People here know my email address
>>if they want to make suggestions. I am happy to receive any
>>constructive feedback.
> But other people are unhappy to receive the destructive feedback you
>post. Come on, John, communication is a two-way process.
When I post destructive feedback I am happy to communicate with anyone
here. As it happens I am happy NOT to wait. People can communicate to
all my constructive feedback. Waiting for the former would be a long
wait ! :-)
< snip >
>>>>There is no need to be "hurt".
> Hurt is not a necessity. It is an emotion. Even the Vulcans on Star
>Trek have a hard time controlling their emotions. Mere humans get hurt
>easily, so other humans try to be kind. Civilisation ensues.
Whether one is "hurt" has a lot to do with how people take things.
One can often misinterpret what someone says. Particularly on usenet.
If for example I say I don't like "black", then you may think that
you don't like negroes.
If I was meaning the colour black as in clothes then your "assumption"
of what I meant may be totally off the mark.
>>> Oh, bullshit, John. This is no place for sceptics, real or pretend.
>>Why not join the "real world" Julia ? Skeptics post in all of the
>>paranormal newsgroups from time to time. We constantly have people
>>discussing Randi challenges etc. even here.
> So what?
If we don't give these people "ammunition", or at least give them
less, then I think that is a good approach.
>People like Paul G pop in and out; you, John, hang on in
>there. If you have made yourself a permanent presence, then you colour
>the 'tone' of the group. A resident sceptic who discusses spiritual
>issues is a tautology.
One can be skeptical about things but still have a spiritual
perspective. Gullibility doesn't make people "spiritual" IMO.
> A spiritualist who attacks vulnerable newly
>released spirits seems like a Bad Thing to me.
Have no idea whatever of what that means so I cannot comment.
>Is that why you use all
>that psychic protection, John? To protect us from you? It's slipping.
I protect myself from people directing negative energies towards me.
If that description fits anyone here then the answer would be "yes".
< snip >
>>If you want to only preach to the "believers" then you are welcome to.
>>I believe however that people here could think about having their
>>experiences mean something to non-believers.
> John, this group is 90% 'believers' ! (Whatever that means.) The
>floating 10% come and go. The incident was not posted to convert
>others,
Nobody said it was. Had you read my post properly you would have seen
that I was suggesting how it might have been made to help people who
were skeptics and/or undecided.
< snip >
clai...@webtv.net
Neil Franklin <ne...@franklin.ch.remove> wrote:
> > clai...@webtv.net writes:
> >
> > I ever did try to visit Jeff (or anyone else.. sorry Jim)that the LAST thing
> > I would do is share it with the newsgroup. Why would anyone want to open
> > themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
> No one would want to do that. But many a person would want to open
> themselves up to tell others about what has happened to them. To
> encourage them to follow.
> Actually such meeting success posts are the best this group has to
> offer. And the personal ones are often better than the organised
> expeditions.
> As a life-long serious skeptic I have found that these posts are the
> best ones at clearing the fog. Julias "pulling out" of Beth and the
> "Silks fire" episode were the best posts at undoing skepticism I ever
> saw.
> I certainly enjoyed your/Jeffs post a lot. It came just after having
> lost access to alt.out-of-body for 10 days. Then it came back to my
> newsfeed and with it this beautyfull post. That simply made my day.
Neil, I'm so glad you enjoyed reading about it!
> Now I can give thanks to you and Jeff, I have annother such great post.
> I nominate it best post of the month.
Hey Jeff, did you hear that?! We've been nominated for "best post of the
month"!! (I hope this makes you feel better about posting it to the
newsgroup.. I know it makes me feel pretty good) ;-)
> > If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
> > ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
> > or as a delusion. But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was
> > about either.
> Is isn't about that. So be sure, most of us do want to hear of the
> unusual stuff.
> > I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
> > posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or
> > wish to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not
> > let me down. ;-)
> Encouragement, of which I send you here a few kilobytes.
Thanks so very much Neil!!
Take care,
clai...@webtv.net
J L Williams <j.l.wi...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> The message <7c97td$kag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> from clai...@webtv.net contains these words:
>
> <great big snip>
>
> Sorry if I'm butting in here Clairity but I hate to see you getting
> so upset over a misconception of what was your description of your
> visit to Jeff's room. It was a first for you and you needed
> encouragement and nurturing noises ;) and you got something that was
> not expected. When I did that, I had a sympathetic ear from Richard
> Silk and nurturing noises from a couple of quarters, especially from
> Julia (thanks Julia) who had already done similar and knew what I
> said was true. BTW I had not read anything (well, not retained
> anything anyway) about Silk's abode before my visit.
>
> > to make me question myself.. but I have NO doubt with regards to this
> > experience.
>
>
> > thing I would do is share it with the newsgroup.
>
> capable of taking the views expressed here from whence they came and
> for what they were intended to be. I think that you lovely young
> ladies are such terrific emotional sensitive beings and were sent
> here to compliment us more factual and hardened males (well, it's no
> good sending emotional and sensitive men to battle on your behalf is it?)
Jim, I'm finding more and more that beneath the skin of the more factual and
hardened males, may secretly beat the heart of an emotional and sensitive man
(you prove my point beautifully)! ;-)
> > Why would anyone want to open
> > themselves up to be called "dishonest" or to be "in collusion" with others?
> This was indirect, assuming sceptics about! (yes I know and aggree-who cares?)
Another of my impressions from John (based on his reply to the "Julia flew to
Florida" post).
> > If one really feels that way about the people in this newsgroup, then
> > ANYTHING someone posted about their OOBEs could be viewed as a possible lie,
> > or as a delusion. But then that is not what I thought this newsgroup was
> > about either.
> Very true......how can we believe anybody's obe, ld, astral travel
> etc etc if we cannot take their word for it?
> > I too expected encouragement or congratulations, at least from the "regular"
> > posters who know me and hopefully know that I have no "hidden" agenda or
> > wish to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, and all of you (save one) did not
> > let me down. ;-)
> Well you have my congratulations, support and encouragement. I can
> tell from your excitement that there was no hidden agenda-that it was
> straight as it happened. Don't be disheartened. In fact feel great!
> It happened!
> > Julia, I cannot disagree with a single thing that you wrote here and I
> > appreciate your putting into words pretty much how I was feeling. I will
> > keep posting for those who choose to read and to believe and, if I fall
> > short of my intended target, I will take it as just one more baby step in
> > my never ending astral journey.
>
> Now you are talking girl! Go for it :)
Go Clairity, Go Clairity! ;-D
> > Julia, maybe I'll see you at Jim's! But if I don't, believe me.. my heart
> > was there!!
> That's the spirit-ooooooppps-did i say that? Teh heh, see what I mean?
> Regards
> Jim
> PS What time would be most convenient for all around the clock/globe?
> I can and will organise a couple of different times of one hour
> duration meditation here to help all to *tune in*
Jim, I'm on Central Standard Time and Sat. and Sun. mornings between 6am and
8am would be good for me to *attempt* an OOBE/astral viewing. Just let me
know..
Thanks for this post and take care!
SUNEYE
>capable of taking the views expressed here from whence they came and
>for what they were intended to be. I think that you lovely young
>ladies are such terrific emotional sensitive beings and were sent
>here to compliment us more factual and hardened males (well, it's no
>good sending emotional and sensitive men to battle on your behalf is it?)
I would have to agree completely. I would really feel upset if you
(Clairity) will limit yourself to this newsgroup because of what
happened. I will always love to hear from your experiences. Believe it
or not, I have your experiences archive on my harddrive to look at for
motivation. Keep on trying and let us know.
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
Hi Jeff,
< snip >
>John, I also see where you are coming from. Kind of playing the devils
>advocate,
If I am "kind of" does that make me a "devil" or an "advocate" ?
< he he >
>if you'll pardon the expression! Hehe!
Nothing to pardon. It was an appropriate term. :-) :-)
>Doing a damn good job at it too! <smile>
No point doing a half hearted job. :-)
>I respect that as well, because you make me see how close minded
>skeptics can be...EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOUR NOT.
Maybe we should keep this a secret ? You know, just between you
and I. < vbg >
If people think I am terrible then it will save me having to shine
this d#%n halo every morning. If there is one thing that irks me, it
is polishing this d.................
> You showed us the other side of
>the cards, and I think we may all be able to learn from this.
That was the point of the post. Skeptics in life are a fact. We find
them in these newsgroups, we find them socially. If we can manage to
deal with them in a constructive way then we have more chance of
helping people to have the understandings that we have.
>Again, sorry for turning this into a soap opera of sorts! I will definately
>get the permission from the original poster before I decide to post anything in
>the NG.
Good idea. Some people would get VERY angry with you if you posted
what they had said to you privately, in a public forum. You can save
yourself this situation by being aware of netiquette. :-)
Julia Hawkes-Moore
Fitzsimons) wrote:
>Grow up Julia. You are not John Fitzsimons. Don;'t pretend that you
>know what he does better than he does. By all means explain what Julia
>is on about but don't bother making a fool of yourself by supposing to
>speak for me. Had I intended to debunk Clairity's post then I would
>have been nowhere as "subtle". The post was about how people report
>their OOB experiences. You can repeat your rants as much as you like
>but misrepresenting things like you are is quite pointless.
>> The simple truth is that nobody chooses to be hurt
>
>Rubbish. Clairity "chose" to be hurt. She could however have listened
>to the advice suggested and used it to better help other people.
>Whether one is "hurt" has a lot to do with how people take things.
>One can often misinterpret what someone says. Particularly on usenet.
>Had you read my post properly you would have seen
>that I was suggesting how it might have been made to help people who
>were skeptics and/or undecided.
Yawn. I can't see anything here worth replying to. John will only
say that I can't read his words properly, so the invisible writing
between his lines will have to stay invisible. Especially since John
failed to reply to this bit:
>Nonsense, John. As I said before, no-one 'chooses' to take
>offence. They just get hurt, even you. There is something you can do
>about someone getting hurt, which is that you can heal them of their
>pain. Or do you have so much psychic protection wrapped around you
>that you can't lean out and give healing? Come on, John, unwind a
>little...
clai...@webtv.net
x...@xxx.xxx (SUNEYE) wrote:
> >Please, please, please always share with the group. We are quite
> >capable of taking the views expressed here from whence they came and
> >for what they were intended to be. I think that you lovely young
> >ladies are such terrific emotional sensitive beings and were sent
> >here to compliment us more factual and hardened males (well, it's no
> >good sending emotional and sensitive men to battle on your behalf is it?)
>
> I would have to agree completely. I would really feel upset if you
> (Clairity) will limit yourself to this newsgroup because of what
> happened. I will always love to hear from your experiences. Believe it
> or not, I have your experiences archive on my harddrive to look at for
> motivation. Keep on trying and let us know.
>
> Joe Russa (SUNEYE)
Will do Joe and thanks so much!
Take care!
John Fitzsimons
<j.l.wi...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
< snip >
>Very true......how can we believe anybody's obe, ld, astral travel
>etc etc if we cannot take their word for it?
< snip >
I believe that there is a term used for people who don't question
anything that they are told. Gullible. :-)
John Fitzsimons
Hawkes-Moore) wrote:
< snip >
>John failed to reply to this bit:
Quite correct.
>>Nonsense, John. As I said before, no-one 'chooses' to take
>>offence.
Incorrect. Clairity had two choices. One was to learn how to better
help newcomers to OOBs have more accurate evidence of the reality of
them, the other was to "take offence". She chose the latter.
Newcomers to this newsgroup are now the poorer as a result.
>They just get hurt, even you. There is something you can do
>>about someone getting hurt,
Rubbish. Desensitisation to "triggers" is a long established
therapeutic approach.
>>which is that you can heal them of their
>>pain. Or do you have so much psychic protection wrapped around you
>>that you can't lean out and give healing? Come on, John, unwind a
>>little...
Your comment is similar to your saying, after you hit your head
against the wall, please send healing. I would think it more sensible
to suggest that you don't hit your head against the wall in the first
place.
>> I did fly to Melbourne to discuss your attack on Clairity 'face to
>>face' as it were, before I wrote my post to you. But when I located
>>you, you were entirely enveloped in a dull grey buzzing cloud. So you
>>can be certain that your psychic protection works. Why you need quite
>>so much of it, however, I would suggest is a question which you
>>discuss with your guardian angels.
My guides protect me against negative energies, and negative people.
The only reason that they would protect me against you is if one, or
both, of those situations applied.
claire
Julia Hawkes-Moore <hawk...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<36e7b0e...@news.dial.pipex.com>...
> On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 03:31:32 GMT, jo...@melbpc.org.au (John
> Fitzsimons) wrote:
> John, no-one but you has done any accusing. Clairity and Jeff
> shared a marvellous experience, yet you dive in to attack everything
> that Clairity wrote. Jeff was the only person in any position to
> correct any errors, and did so, yet you came crashing in with your
> unwelcome critique.
Why was it so unwelcome? Are we hear only to tell entertaining stories,
Julia, or are we here to learn?
> In this newsgroup, we share interesting experiences, thoughts and
> questions - all except you. For over a year now,
Exactly. And John and I have been on this newsgroup much more prior to
you and yet we could say things about your first newbie days that would
shine a light on where you're coming from.
I have watched you
> being consistently negative, critical, and aggressive in an elegantly
> psuedo-intellectual manner.
That's your view of things, Julia. Obviously from other people post's
and my own, it's not everyone's view. It's interesting to note, that you
call him "consistently negative, critical, and elegantly
pseudo-intellectual" and yet he has never once said anything negative or
critical about you personally. However, the fact that you feel comfortable
saying this to him in a public forum sort of makes me wonder exactly who is
the one being "negative, critical, and agressive in an elegantly
pseudo-intellectual manner"?
You have never posted an original
> experience or question of your own.
What does that mean? If people don't behave like Julia than people
aren't acceptable?
You have never posted a supportive
> or enthusiastic word.
Wrong again.
You have never participated in any of the group
> attempts to develop and practice the group aim - out of body travel.
How would you know that? Are you omniscient now too?
> Your only participatory effort is to reply to posts redirecting people
> back to your rather dull vicnet page, as though the information there
> is the be-all and end-all, and should not be considered open for
> discussion, variation or development in any way.
The fact that John bothers to answer the same dull questions over and
over again is proof enough that he cares about the people asking the
questions. I don't blame him for putting the information on a Web page
instead of typing the stuff, over and over and over again.
By doing so you pose
> as an authority yet you permit no questioning of that pose. You have
> only once posted something approximating to a joke or displayed any
> good humour at all.
Maybe that's because the humor was lost on you.
<SNIP>
> Oh, bullshit, John. This is no place for sceptics, real or pretend.
You seem to think that to question your own experiences implies that one
is a skeptic. You know, you're right ;-). God should have just shut our
brains down at birth so we could stop using the silly things.
> They have their own newsgroups where they indulge one another in their
> nasty paranoid one-upmanship. Stay there with them, John, your
> attitude in this newsgroup is unhelpful and tedious. There are words
> for people like you, and they include;
> wet blanket; spoilsport, damper, killjoy, dog in the manger, thwarter,
> frustrator, saboteur, heckler, intruder, gremlin, bore.
Oh, this must be more of the "enlightened" Julia who knows when a person
is being "negative, critical, and agressive in an elegantly
pseudo-intellectual manner."
> Well done, Clairity, for replying:
> >> I am not going to be crushed or let anyone take this experience
> >>from me (not even someone I admire).
> The day that John posts something constructive, innovative,
> interesting and positive is the day that I will consider admiring him.
I'm sure he's not holding his breath for you. The fact is John does you
a favor Julia and you are not very bright about seeing it. Why? The word
"childish" pops to mind. You don't consider criticism from any source to be
constructive. Is that why you quit school early? Couldn't take the teachers
telling you how to better yourself?
> Until that day, I suggest you disregard his silly little interjections
> and get on with the real business of this newsgroup.
Which, of course, as we all know is reading Julia's posts and oohing and
aahing over her supposed "powers." Sorry Julia, but I'm not impressed.
Claire
Lee W
My sentiments exactly. I've been on this Ng for the last year and John has
always been helpful on many of my posts.
Lee.
Mary
<major snip>
My computer broke for a couple of weeks, therefore i missed the post that
John wrote to Clairity that everyone and their mother is arguing over, could
someone either post it to me at my e-mail, or tell what the title was or
give me some form of reference so i can search and have a gander at it in
dejanews, please?
--Mary.
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
Hi Mary,
>--Mary.
Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body
Subject: Re: Clairity may have visited me!
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:22:20 GMT
Message-ID: <36f09f43...@news.melbpc.org.au>
Copy sent to you. :-)
Neil Franklin
>
> someone either post it to me at my e-mail, or tell what the title was or
> give me some form of reference so i can search and have a gander at it in
You can get the entire thread from:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.out-of-body/19990309_Clairity_may_have_visited_me
And generally any (for me) interesting threads (and every thread I
take part in) get archived in:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.out-of-body/<date>_<title>
At present there are 229 threads there, starting in Dec 1997.
--
Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic
ne...@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/
20th century record companies fit the 21st century data highways
as good as 19th century stagecoaches fit the 20th century freeways
m.tohi...@gmail.com
> Hello everyone,
>
> Clairity...I hope that you don't mind me posting this note to the rest of the
> NG, but I think it's very, very interesting.
>
> Just to *clairify* (hehe), I got this email from Clairity in my mailbox, and I
> am going to attempt to answer it while you read along. My answers have the
> asterix in front of it:
>
> >Hi Jeff! I didn't think I would be writing you so soon but you stated
> >in your newsgroup reply to my post that the next time when you go OOB
> >and you called for me, maybe I will appear.
>
> >Well, I have some questions for you:
>
> >1. Do you have a *smallish* bedroom?
>
> ***Yes I do....not quite as small as my bedroom in my original house, but its
> so cluttered and compact that it probably looks a lot smaller than it would be
> if I just cleaned it! But in answer to your question, yes...I have a smallish
> bedroom.
>
>
> >2. Do you have a twin size bed?
>
> ***Yes I do.
>
> >3. Is your bed against the wall in a corner of the room?
>
> ***The head of the bed rests against the middle of a wall, and it lays out from
> that point, like the form of a "T".
>
>
> >4. Is there a guitar on the floor next to or leaning
> >against your bed?
>
> ***Yes I do...when you said this, it really made my mouth drop! It usually
> leans against my bed or against my desk (next to my bed). This suprised me
> that you would know this because most people either keep their guitars in a
> case or on a stand....mine just leans against the desk or bedframe.
>
> >5. Are the sheets on your bed in disarray?
>
> ***Oh yeah...in fact, I dont have any sheets on my bed. Its just an opened
> sleeping back that drapes over my bed. Very comfy and not difficult to
> straighten. However, I neevr straighten it out (because no one comes in my
> room but me), so its usually in disarray on my bed (until I straighten it out
> before bedtime).
>
>
> >6. I saw no *heavy* bedspread or thick blanket on your bed, is
> >this correct?
>
> ***The only thing I have on my bed is a dark colored (opened flat) sleeping bag
> that is draped over it. Nothing else, like sheets or comforters.
>
> >7. Did you sleep facing the wall this morning?
>
> ***Well, my bed is in the middle of my room, so either way I face, it's not
> exactly next to a wall. The headboard touches the wall, but on either side of
> the bed, there is about 4 feet of space before the wall. I believe I woke up
> on my right side this morning
>
> >Jeff, let me know if any of this is a hit. If not, but you want to hear
> >about my experience this morning anyway let me know that too. ;-)
>
> Well, it definately raised an eyebrow! The only thing that I am not sure you
> were right about was the position of the bed....other than that, you were
> pretty much right on the money! Now that you know where I live, maybe you can
> visit me more! <wink> Looking forward to flying with you! Tell me more about
> your experience! You got me all excited over here!
> Jeff