[all] Meaning of X
Felix Miata
Jose C wrote:
> Hmmm, the Rx in the name Rx-7 means Rotary eXperimental.
No it doesn't. It means eXport. It goes all the way back to the first rotary cars officially
eXported, when home market models were renamed for eXport markets. The RX-7 was the
***7TH*** production rotary vehicle eXported by Mazda. See link below.
--
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." George Washington
Team OS/2 *** Rotary ONLY since 1973
Felix Miata *** http://www.gate.net/~mrmazda/cfaq.html#OTHERPROD
Felix Miata
Scott S wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Taylor A wrote:
> > Felix wrote:
> > >Jose C wrote:
> > >> Hmmm, the Rx in the name Rx-7 means Rotary eXperimental.
> > >No it doesn't. It means eXport. It goes all the way back to the first rotary cars officially
> > >eXported, when home market models were renamed for eXport markets. The RX-7 was the
> > >***7TH*** production rotary vehicle eXported by Mazda.
> > For once, I think you're mistaken Felix - I've got copies of the
> > orriginal C&D magazine writeups of the "new" 79 rx7.... both of them
> > confirm the "X" for experimental.... I believe the Yamaguchi book supports
> > this also (it's been a while since I read it).
Incessant repeating of a myth or falsehood doesn't convert it to reality
or truth. I just reread Don Sherman's reports in the May and September
1978 issues of "Car & Driver" without finding any reference to
etymology. Likewise absent was the subject in John Dinkel's and John
Lamm's articles in the May and August 1978 issues of "Road & Track". A
large part of the information in the four articles was taken from a
publication I have before me, "Product Information: Mazda RX-7", 43
pages, printed by Mazda April 1978, which also omits a discussion of the
etymology of RX-7.
Regardless, to quote Don Sherman from the May 1978 issue, "After eight
years of yeoman service pulling around frumpy sedans and mini pickup
trucks, Felix Wankel's wondermotor has earned a special reward [...]",
and hardly qualifies as anything remotely resembling experimental, with
930,000 rotary engines having been produced up until the introduction of
the RX-7.
All of Mazda's RX- show/experimental rotary cars, before and since, had
names of multiple numerical digits.
> Makes sense to me - they call them Rx7s in Japan, too, and they're
> domestics over here, not eXports :)
Who said anything about sales being made eXclusively in eXport markets.
Just because earlier RX- models were so called only for export obviously
didn't prevent Mazda from adopting such a moniker for a domestic model.
The RX-7 was unquestionably the seventh Mazda rotary model officially
produced in volume for eXport.
http://www.gate.net/~mrmazda/cfaq.html#OTHERPROD
Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
7 1979 RX-7
Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of seven.
Clearly, res ipsa loquitur, absent *official* Mazda documentation
otherwise.
voxman
On Mon, Jun 1, 1998 3:06 PM, Felix Miata <mailto:mrm...@gate.net> wrote:
> Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
>
> 1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
> 2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
> 3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
> 4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
> 5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
> 6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
> 7 1979 RX-7
>
> Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of seven.
>
What about the E-110S, the L-10, and the R-360 ?
Anyone out there with a 67 Cosmo? Any condition, anywhere in North
America!!!
Rhino
Jim Downing had a 67 Cosmo a few years back for sale, his shop is still in
GA.
The Rx-7 in Japan is called the Savanna Rx-7
rhino
Felix Miata
voxman wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 1, 1998 3:06 PM, Felix Miata <mailto:mrm...@gate.net> wrote:
> > Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
> > 1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
> > 2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
> > 3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
> > 4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
> > 5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
> > 6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
> > 7 1979 RX-7
> > Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of seven.
> What about the E-110S, the L-10, and the R-360 ?
What about them? They were never mass produced for the purpose of
export.
--
Felix Miata
ETC wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:06:02 -0400, Felix Miata <mrm...@gate.net>
> wrote:
> > Felix wrote:
> <snip *document curcumsision*>
UNSNIP RELEVANT HEADING
****************************************************** in the US ****
Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
****************************************************** in the US ****
> >1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
> >2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
> >3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
> >4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
> My RX-4 has "1973" as when it was made. It also has 12A on the
> compliance plate, I bought it with an 80's 13B (now dead).
> >5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
> >6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
> >7 1979 RX-7
> > Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of seven.
> >Clearly, res ipsa loquitur, absent *official* Mazda documentation
> >otherwise.
Most 1974 model RX-4s sold in the US were manufactured in 1973.
All US RX-4s were 13B equipped.
--
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." George Washington
Team OS/2 *** Rotary ONLY since 1973
Felix Miata *** http://www.gate.net/~mrmazda
ETC
> Felix wrote:
<snip *document curcumsision*>
>1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
>2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
>3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
>4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
My RX-4 has "1973" as when it was made. It also has 12A on the
compliance plate, I bought it with an 80's 13B (now dead).
>5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
>6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
>7 1979 RX-7
>
> Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of seven.
>
>Clearly, res ipsa loquitur, absent *official* Mazda documentation
>otherwise.
(DEM)
-- Don't Eat Me.
+----------------[ TSOPWASOBEA member, DEM ]----------------+
| The Society Of People Who Are Scared Of Being Eaten Alive |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Do you even get the feeling that someone is trying to eat |
| you?? -- Auth. Unknown, He was EATEN! |
+-----(e*y*e*h@sv.n*t.au)-------(dont...@hotmail.com)-----+
David Stephan
I have no real opinion as to what the "x" means, other than I am certain is
has almost nothing to do with experimental. If that had truely been the
case the 110 Cosmo and R100 would definitely been an "x" model, and not the
latter models. It was probably more of a marketing gimmick. You know, the
more fancy letters the better the car.
I recall that the official name for my old Rx2 (since departed) was "Mazda
Cappella Rotary Engine Super Deluxe Automatic Sedan". It didn't even say Rx2
anywhere on it!! So does that make it an "Rx2 ReSDAS"? Nah, doesn't sound
sexy enough for the marketing boys.
Just to clarify, Mazda introduced the 13B in the 1974 model Rx4. There was
never a factory 1973 Rx4 with a 13B, HOWEVER; as the 1974 cars were produced
in time to be released for the "1974 lineup" there would be some 1973 build
dates for 1974 model Mazdas.
I agree with everyones comments, but thought I'd just spell this out to
those who aren't "in the know".
This is something you always need to check when buying a car. I recall
owning a '76 929 wagon (Rx4 body style with a 1.8l piston engine). Even
though it was built in 1976, and delivered to Australia in 1976 (as
evidenced by both the Mazda ID plate, and the Australian compliance plate)
it was clearly a 1977 model.
Changes to front nose cone styling etc was a dead giveaway it was a '77
model. The 1977 spec equipment was complete throughout the car and, had not
been fitted by a previous owner (owner had 1977 pics of the car new).
The real story in this case was that the car was one of the very first "1977
spec" models to arrive in country. Naturally it had been built months
before.
BTW you can use this to your advantage when getting insurance. When they ask
what year the car is you mention the build date, not the "year spec". Often
you will find that because the car is "supposedly" one year older than what
it genuinely is, you will get a lower premium.
Of course the downside is that the insurance company may not insure it for
as much. Insurance counter jockey: "The blue book {or whatever} says that
your X year car is only worth this, if it was a year newer it would be worth
more. Therefore, we will only insure it for this (even though it has all
the extra equipment fitted for the newer car)" Typical!
--
David Stephan
dste...@ozemail.com.au
** My views are my own and not that of anyone else,
** and sometimes I'm wrong (but only sometimes).
** Spammers are life Jim, but not as we know it!
Felix Miata wrote in message <3574C9...@gate.net>...
>ETC wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:06:02 -0400, Felix Miata <mrm...@gate.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> > Felix wrote:
>
>> <snip *document curcumsision*>
>
>UNSNIP RELEVANT HEADING
>
>****************************************************** in the US ****
>Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
>****************************************************** in the US ****
>
>> >1 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
>> >2 1971 RX-2 (Japanese Capella)
>> >3 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
>> >4 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
>
>> My RX-4 has "1973" as when it was made. It also has 12A on the
>> compliance plate, I bought it with an 80's 13B (now dead).
>
>> >5 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine PickUp, sold only in the US market)
>> >6 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets)
>> >7 1979 RX-7
>
>> > Note that the RX-7 is the seventh on this comprehensive list of
seven.
>
>> >Clearly, res ipsa loquitur, absent *official* Mazda documentation
>> >otherwise.
>
>
DEM
On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:57:33 -0400, Felix Miata <mrm...@gate.net>
wrote:
>ETC wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:06:02 -0400, Felix Miata <mrm...@gate.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> > Felix wrote:
>
>> <snip *document curcumsision*>
>
>UNSNIP RELEVANT HEADING
>
>****************************************************** in the US ****
>Mazda Rotary models eXported and model year first sold in the US were:
>****************************************************** in the US ****
>
<Snippetty Snip!>
heh.. Oops.. sorry about that..
>
>Most 1974 model RX-4s sold in the US were manufactured in 1973.
>All US RX-4s were 13B equipped.
Hrm.. that is interesting..
My RX-4 is one of the first ones into Aust, and it has the flat '929'
front and the same dash as the '929' (ie not the cockpit style dash).
It also has the 2 row one peice lights, not the 4 squares..
Did the US get any of the '929' "12A" front RX-4s?
Did the US get any RX-4s with the non cockpit dash?
I have only found one other RX-4 like mine arround the area (he has a
13B w/ T04 turbo and Wolf 3D computer and it is yellow) and he had so
many people say it was a '929' that he got number plates of "NOT-929"!
The biggest insult is by far, I went to get a machinery (cop said my
exhaust was too loud!) and he wrote Datsun 200B on the form before I
corrected him!
Though, I am still not going to change my front end, I am going to
keep it original. It is now 25 years old!
(DEM0
-- Don't Eat Me
Felix Miata
DEM wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:57:33 -0400, Felix Miata <mrm...@gate.net>
> wrote:
> >Most 1974 model RX-4s sold in the US were manufactured in 1973.
> >All US RX-4s were 13B equipped.
> Hrm.. that is interesting..
> My RX-4 is one of the first ones into Aust, and it has the flat '929'
> front and the same dash as the '929' (ie not the cockpit style dash).
> It also has the 2 row one peice lights, not the 4 squares..
> Did the US get any of the '929' "12A" front RX-4s?
Don't know what you mean by 929 front. US RX-4s looked the same front &
rear in 1974 & 1975. In 1976 they were changed and looked in front as if
a Mercedes or Rolls Royce design, which may include the "flat" that you
describe if you refer to the grill. In the rear the lights look as you
describe, two long horizontal pairs, with a grey surround.
> Did the US get any RX-4s with the non cockpit dash?
No. I guess they didn't feel compelled to make the same change on LHD
cars.
Felix Miata
Jose C wrote:
> G^Sport wrote:
> > i just received this "explanation" from mazda Japan. (and kind of
> > freaked out).
> > Subject: meaning of "X"
> > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:33:08 +0900
> > From: MAZDA Japan
> > To: "G^Sport"
> > R: Rotary Engine
Not in issue.
> > X: Future
The only real issue.
> > 7: Development code for model with rotary engine
No real issue. I doubt there is any possible problem with interpretation
of the number seven itself. That this ostensibly was the "development
code" is not inconsistent with the fact that the car was indisputably
the 7th rotary Mazda regularly produced for export, exclusively or
otherwise. It could be that this is exactly was "development code"
means.
> > WOW, i never thought of that!
> > and to think, i was the first westerner to know "THE TRUTH"!
How can you be sure others haven't known long ago and that you are
merely the first "on the list" to claim so?
There are several issues with the "horse's mouth" reply:
1- Was it asked in English?
2- If asked in English, was the respondant's native language English?
3- If not, was the respondant fully fluent in English?
4- Regardless of whether asked in English, is any other translation
possible?
5- Was the question asked understood to mean the same thing as was
intended by the asker?
6- Was the respondant "representative" an appropriately knowledgeable
person?
7- Was the respondant with Mazda when the RX-2, RX-3, RX-4 and RX-7 were
named?
8- Exactly who made the reply?
9- What exactly was asked?
Those of us intimately familiar with Mazda and other Japanese owner's
and shop manuals know full well how dismal the translations from
Japanese to English can be. Some people forget the Japanese alphabet is
hardly limited to 26 characters.
> Heh, I could care less that I was wrong about it, since I'm a nobody. I
> do think it's pretty sweet that Felix "I think I know everything about
> Mazdas, but apparently I don't" Miata was also wrong!! Yesssss!!!!!
> Another win for all of the non-Felix Miatas of the world!
> Jose "OK, so I was wrong, but so was Felix Miata" Corraliza
Things aren't always as they appear. It may mean that those who think it
means "experimental" will give up that position. No *conclusive*
evidence has been offered so far, and the following remains indisputably
true:
Mazda Rotary models eXported (and model year first sold in the US) were:
1. 1970 R-100 (Japanese Familia)
2. 1971 RX-2 (Japanese & Australian Capella)
3. 1972 RX-3 (Japanese Savanna)
4. 1974 RX-4 (Japanese Luce)
5. 1974 REPU (Rotary Engine Pick-Up, manufactured only for eXport to
the US market) (?Canada too?)
6. 1976 Cosmo (RX-5 in some markets, e.g. Australia)
7. 1979 RX-7 (Represents first use of an RX- moniker in the Japanese
market)