Super Mario versus Gord 'Flash' Fraser
ronde chumpion
Not wanting the whole Euro-US debate to continue, who is the more
dominant sprinter based on their particular racing scene???
Cippo takes M-SR, Worlds, and then the field sprint in M-SR in the
rainbow jersey. Basically absent 10 months of the year though. Except
for his well timed press conferences during the Tour while he's a
spectator.
Gordo....wins like 60 races a year for 5 years w/Horsetooth. Joins
the most amateur of the 37 D3 teams in America. Continues by winning
three Pomona stages, Tucson TT, and the crit and field sprint last
weekend at McClane. I know Saturn kept it all together for wonderkid
Danielson (The Next Big Thing), so his weak team isn't always
exposed.....but still, you gotta give the guy credit. He wins 10
months a year.
What do you guys think. In a 60k race, I pick Gordo, 100-150k even
steven (you pick em), anything 200k + and Cippo bitch slaps Flash with
one leg on the pedal.
Thanks,
Ronde Chumpion
bernardslater
Criterium international stage the other year in a mass sprint and virtually
cruised to the win. But his wife is expecting and he loves Tuscon a friend
of his tells me. But given the right conditions Gord could beat Cipo
"ronde chumpion" <rondec...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:62f26b38.03032...@posting.google.com...
Kenny
> steven (you pick em), anything 200k + and Cippo bitch slaps Flash with
> one leg on the pedal.
I think you are stupid. You try to compare Cipo to Fraser. How much
of a lunatic do you have to be to do that. That's like comparing
apples to oranges.
First of all: Cipo does ride more than two months a year. To win MSR
you have to have quite some km in your legs. In the preparation to
MSR he always win some stages. After the classics he rides the Giro.
If his team gets selected he rides the tour. And if he has an
objective in the fall like last year's WC he rides the Vuelta. Son
don't you tell me he's only active for two months.
Now Gordon wins 60 shitraces in the US. This means the rest of riders
he rides with are even worse than him. But it definitely doesn't mean
he can beat Cipo in race of 60k. Besides you can hardly call 60km a
race. How crazy it is to think that cipo, the fastest rider on earth,
couldn't win a 60k race against Frazer? If Fraser is the great
sprinter you say he is, he shouldn't be riding in the US but he should
be part of european team with a european program. Then you can
compare Cipo and your Canadian friend. I think everyone should sign
for a WC when they have to choose between that or even 150 wins in US
shitraces where nobody cares about.
Fried Tofu
> > Not wanting the whole Euro-US debate to continue, who is the more
> > dominant sprinter based on their particular racing scene???
> >
Get it right. It would be a Euro-CANADA debate!!!
Michael McMurray
national bias thing going too, but I would have to pick Cippo as the
winner of a head to head. Cippo consistently beats the top sprint
competition in the Euro scene. Robbie Mac, Meister Energizer Zabel et
al. Cippo has a dedicated team, but then, so do these other top
sprinters so that should be a non factor. So do I pick Gordo over
Zabel, R-Mac and Cippo? No. Rather I place R-Mac and Gordo on about
the same level, just below Cippo.
Mike McMurray
"bernardslater" <ber...@slater4693.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<b5rrui$1sj$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Gord shouldnt be in America he should be over here in Europe. Won a
> Criterium international stage the other year in a mass sprint and virtually
> cruised to the win. But his wife is expecting and he loves Tuscon a friend
> of his tells me. But given the right conditions Gord could beat Cipo
> "ronde chumpion" <rondec...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:62f26b38.03032...@posting.google.com...
> > Hey
> >
> > Not wanting the whole Euro-US debate to continue, who is the more
> > dominant sprinter based on their particular racing scene???
> >
> > SNIP<
Scott Hendricks
"bernardslater" <ber...@slater4693.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<b5rrui$1sj$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
maarten
Quaranta. The thing is Cipo isn fast but freire Mc ewen are faster in
the last 50 it's only Cipo's superb team the golden train that makes a
lot of difference.
Considering pure speed of the road sprinters Brown and certainly
Quaranta are superb. But Ivan has this problem if there's an elevation
of 50m in the road or 3 consecutive higway bridges he gets dropped.
If you go for just a man to man sprint they get easily beaten by Guys
like Tournant and Eadie.
--
A winner is a loser who didn't quit!
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Scott
sprint off a monster train. If Zabel, McEwen, Quaranta, etc can't do it with
any regularity, how do you think Gord could? Now, if Gord rode for a Euro
team with a comparable train and spent years getting used to that kind of
sprint, who knows how competitive he could become? He's very talented.
In American style crits, Gord has equivalent supremacy. I would bet that if
Mario showed up last week at McClane crit with its 6 corners, a 12 foot wide
jaunt around the courthouse, and a corner with 200m to go, Gord would
probably beat him. Again, if Mario got a crit team together and spent time
in the American monkey bowl racing scene, who knows?
Net net: they are different kinds of sprinters in different kinds of
sprints. The skills are NOT directly translatable. So I say they each win
their respective styles, but could probably adapt pretty well to the other
style if they wanted.
Here's a data point to consider: I was considered a fast American pro
sprinter. In Europe, I would often get burned off in the closing Ks because
the speed was too high (think 20ks in the 53x12 spun out, fighting for
position) and I did not have support. However, once in a while there were
crit-style prologues, which I could win - even over guys like Cipo and
Baffi. Go figure.
Scott
"maarten" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:3e81f...@news.chariot.net.au...
Robert Chung
"Scott" <smc...@pacbell.net> wrote
> In Europe, Mario cannot be beaten in the kind of sprint he wins - a 70kph
> sprint off a monster train.
I thought you were going to write "80kph."
Phil Carter
hands down. Cipo doesn't like to fight for a wheel. He'll beat you
up after the race if take his wheel away from him. And I'd bet your
average Cat 3 US racer could out-corner Cipo.
I'd pick Cipo when there's a flat, straight 5K run-in to the finish,
but he'd be off the back in an American crit.
gele...@hotmail.com (Kenny) wrote in message news:<47493688.0303...@posting.google.com>...
Jeff Jones
"Phil Carter" <phil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3420de17.03032...@posting.google.com...
> I don't think he's stupid. In a 60K American crit, Gord would win
> hands down. Cipo doesn't like to fight for a wheel. He'll beat you
> up after the race if take his wheel away from him. And I'd bet your
> average Cat 3 US racer could out-corner Cipo.
>
> I'd pick Cipo when there's a flat, straight 5K run-in to the finish,
> but he'd be off the back in an American crit.
>
How many corners do you think there are on the Poggio?
Jeff
warren
<smc...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Here's a data point to consider: I was considered a fast American pro
> sprinter. In Europe, I would often get burned off in the closing Ks because
> the speed was too high (think 20ks in the 53x12 spun out, fighting for
> position) and I did not have support. However, once in a while there were
> crit-style prologues, which I could win - even over guys like Cipo and
> Baffi. Go figure.
>
> Scott
Now you get the chance to beat another Italian "pro" sprinter in
criteriums. Stinton got him at McClane last weekend.
-WG
Kurgan Gringioni
"Scott" <smc...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2snga.1688$Le3....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> In Europe, Mario cannot be beaten in the kind of sprint he wins - a 70kph
> sprint off a monster train. If Zabel, McEwen, Quaranta, etc can't do it
with
> any regularity, how do you think Gord could? Now, if Gord rode for a Euro
> team with a comparable train and spent years getting used to that kind of
> sprint, who knows how competitive he could become? He's very talented.
>
> In American style crits, Gord has equivalent supremacy. I would bet that
if
> Mario showed up last week at McClane crit with its 6 corners, a 12 foot
wide
> jaunt around the courthouse, and a corner with 200m to go, Gord would
> probably beat him. Again, if Mario got a crit team together and spent time
> in the American monkey bowl racing scene, who knows?
>
> Net net: they are different kinds of sprinters in different kinds of
> sprints. The skills are NOT directly translatable. So I say they each win
> their respective styles, but could probably adapt pretty well to the other
> style if they wanted.
>
> Here's a data point to consider: I was considered a fast American pro
> sprinter. In Europe, I would often get burned off in the closing Ks
because
> the speed was too high (think 20ks in the 53x12 spun out, fighting for
> position) and I did not have support. However, once in a while there were
> crit-style prologues, which I could win - even over guys like Cipo and
> Baffi. Go figure.
Back in the day, I heard analysis that you were the only North American
based sprinter who had the speed to take the top Euros and that you could
have been a top Euro sprinter except that you didn't have the training ethic
to do so.
Do you feel like the commentary is off-base or ill-informed?
Are you flattered by the appraisal of your talent? or annoyed at the
characterization of your desire?
just curious,
K. Gringioni
Jeff Pooter
"warren" <war...@usvh.com> wrote in message
news:260320031456217164%war...@usvh.com...
Ooooooooooooo . . . was this in a Masters RACE?
Please, please, do tell us the story!
It's unfair how the press covers the pro races only in races like McClane,
when the Masters RACE is just as good! only the RACERS are a little older.
Age discrimination should not be tolerated in this society. Who knows what
people can achieve if they ignore that number? If only the RACERS would
throw off the chains of their negative thinking, someday a 50 year old will
WIN the Tour de France! What a great day that will be! New energy! The sport
will be better.
Don't think "old people". Think people watching their 50 year old friends
and neighbors doing Masters BIKE RACING on TV instead of the NBA or NFL!
Please tell us THE STORY!
warren
Pooter <jpspam...@inmybackdoor.com> wrote:
> "warren" <war...@usvh.com> wrote in message
> news:260320031456217164%war...@usvh.com...
> > In article <2snga.1688$Le3....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, Scott
> > <smc...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Here's a data point to consider: I was considered a fast American pro
> > > sprinter. In Europe, I would often get burned off in the closing Ks
> because
> > > the speed was too high (think 20ks in the 53x12 spun out, fighting for
> > > position) and I did not have support. However, once in a while there
> were
> > > crit-style prologues, which I could win - even over guys like Cipo and
> > > Baffi. Go figure.
> > >
> > > Scott
> >
> > Now you get the chance to beat another Italian "pro" sprinter in
> > criteriums. Stinton got him at McClane last weekend.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ooooooooooooo . . . was this in a Masters RACE?
>
> Please, please, do tell us the story!
It was in the 35+ 1,2,3 event. Gaggioli led it out from before the last
corner and Stinton got him by about half a wheel. Most of the guys not
in the top 10 into the last corner were delayed by a crash that took
out 4-5 guys. Thereafter I think the officials decided to widen the
"course" coming out of the last corner by moving the portable fencing
that was artificially restricting the course to two lanes wide in that
area. It was nasty fencing to crash into.
-WG
Carl Sundquist
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
>
> Back in the day, I heard analysis that you were the only North American
> based sprinter who had the speed to take the top Euros and that you could
> have been a top Euro sprinter except that you didn't have the training
ethic
> to do so.
>
> Do you feel like the commentary is off-base or ill-informed?
It would be interesting to hear who gave that analysis. Were they qualified
to do so? My "sources" say nothing about a lack of training ethic on Scott's
part.
Scott
"Carl Sundquist" <car...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:v84i8e5...@corp.supernews.com...
Carl stickin up for me again? Nice!
I'll answer for myself because now I sit at a desk all day and its nice to
get a little "I coulda been great!..." ego massage once in a while.
I had the talent and the drive, but no direction. I did manage to actually
win Euro races when I was 21-22, beating guys like Kelly, Vanderaerden,
Baffi, etc. But I was on a team (7-11/Motorola) that was going through a
transitional phase from the old school (Kiefel, Phinney, Shapiro, Lauritzen)
to the new, and there wasn't much support for the new. Even worse, my coach
and mentor Mike Neel - the best - had a horrible car crash during my second
year in Europe and left me stranded. I didn't have a clue about the talent I
had or how to nurture it. I had no perspective. I thought getting dropped on
a 10k climb in the Dauphine Libere meant I sucked - even if I won a kermesse
against big sprinters the week before. So I gave up, headed home, and did
the U.S. cash circuit. It wasnt' about a training ethic. It was about a need
for good direction and management.
Bottom line is that it there are a lot of factors that make a successful
pro. Many guys have the physical talent, but they can't do it without all
kinds of support - financial, emotional, etc. Personally, I needed a good
manager badly. I very much regret not coming close to my potential as a Euro
field sprinter. Dream about those races every night. Now isn't that
pathetic?
But thanks for the compliments guys.
scott
Tom Kunich
> Dream about those races every night. Now isn't that pathetic?
Pathetic would have been never trying at all. You came from a position
that didn't let you get a clear view of your own talent. Happens all
the time. Armstrong was lucky to make all of the right moves at all of
the right times. Hardly anyone else has.
john lee
he still not getting the measure of Cipo, Robbie, Zabel
etc.........its all different over there..........
john
On 26 Mar 2003 07:56:30 -0800, hendric...@hotmail.com (Scott
Dave
And I'd bet your
> average Cat 3 US racer could out-corner Cipo.
Not any of the average Cat 3 racers I have raced against
Dave
Boyd Speerschneider
news:l3rga.9977$TW2.2...@news1.news.adelphia.net:
<snip>
> Age discrimination should not be tolerated in this society. Who knows
> what people can achieve if they ignore that number? If only the RACERS
> would throw off the chains of their negative thinking, someday a 50
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> year old will WIN the Tour de France! What a great day that will be!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ROTFLMAO!!!
He'll probably do it on a 'bent also right?
I can see it now... 2020 TDF... Armstrong wins his 22nd tour riding an
OCLV 'bent.
- Boyd S.
...holding breath
Jeff Pooter
> >
> >
> > Ooooooooooooo . . . was this in a Masters RACE?
> >
> > Please, please, do tell us the story!
>
> It was in the 35+ 1,2,3 event. Gaggioli led it out from before the last
> corner and Stinton got him by about half a wheel. Most of the guys not
> in the top 10 into the last corner were delayed by a crash that took
> out 4-5 guys. Thereafter I think the officials decided to widen the
> "course" coming out of the last corner by moving the portable fencing
> that was artificially restricting the course to two lanes wide in that
> area. It was nasty fencing to crash into.
WOW!
That sounds really EXCITING!
Here's a billion dollar idea: a Reality tv show based on Masters RACING!
Camera crews following Masters around all weekend, before, during and after
their RACE. It could attract millions of viewers on primetime tv!
Prospective names:
a) MASTERS' GUT
or
b) MASTERS' BUTT
which one is catchier?
The Possibilities!
Jeff Pooter
warren
<dhan...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> "Phil Carter" <phil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3420de17.03032...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> And I'd bet your
> > average Cat 3 US racer could out-corner Cipo.
>
This has to be a joke.
>
> Not any of the average Cat 3 racers I have raced against
> Dave
Are you saying that the really good Cat 3's can out-corner Cipo?
:-)
-WG
Kurgan Gringioni
>
> Are you saying that the really good Cat 3's
That is an oxymoron. There is no such thing, a really good rider upgrades.
Dave
Considering the amount of criteriums and kermeeses(sp) Cipo has won I am relatively sure he can
corner just as good as any pro rider out there, Euro or USA. If Phil thinks that the avg cat 3
rider could out corner Cipo, maybe he doesn't really know good cornering.
Dave
Dave
Agreed, CAT 3 is the "transitional" category. You either want to be good enough to get out of it or
are "comfortable" riding in it.
Dave
warren
Gringioni <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Try to imagine that I was being sarcastic.
-WG
sds...@sbcglobal.net
Fdwga.10101$TW2.2...@news1.news.adelphia.net, "Jeff Pooter"
<jpspam...@inmybackdoor.com> wrote:
> Henry Chang-Bang
>
>
Father Guido Sarducci
Masters' Butt - definitely. Cyclists have the best gluteus maximii in
the world. Ever wonder why I hang around bike races?
Fr. Guido
Jx
Not in D-20.
Kurgan Gringioni
That is very pathetic.
like the girl you could have had sex with but didn't - they bug you for the
rest of your life.
You should consider committing suicide right now. I recommend an overdose of
Pot Belge (contact Jeff Jones, he's Da Man).
Thanks for the clarification - interesting. How old are you relative to
Cipo?
ronde chumpion
Just wanted to say that when I see post like this one below from a
guy who really did it, was there, was the shXt, and all that, I think
RBR is at its best! So much of the stuff in here is crap. Written by
some pretty clueless people who just feed of the clueless info they
have obtained.
The value in quality of Scott's contribution is probably lost on
most of the people here. Not me, man! He was such an exceptionally
talented rider, and to get a inside scoop of that caliber is rare
around here.
Let's give proper respect to those that earn it. Those who add no
value here are asked to just read, and perhaps post a little less
frequently. Let other dumb newsgroups and forums be bogged down by the
morons of the sport of Bicycle Racing.
Thanks Scott. Happy pedaling to you in '03. ;)
Thanks,
Ronde Chumpion
ronde champ
Let other dumb newsgroups and forums be bogged down by the
> morons of the sport of Bicycle Racing.
He's talking about you, Tom.
Deeznuts
Ching-Chang,
Please shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Deez
Kurgan Gringioni
"Deeznuts" <deeznu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8f34113.03032...@posting.google.com...
>
> Please shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about.
I've never known what I am talking about.
Which means there won't be any shutting up.
heather halvorson
ronde chumpion wrote:
> Those who add no
> value here are asked to just read, and perhaps post a little less
> frequently.
to speak for myself, i like seeing posts from everyone.
heather
Father Guido Sarducci
Perhaps you would vote yes to continue my presence in the group? See
my post about 'Am I Funny' for details.
Bless you my daughter.
Fr. Guido
heather halvorson <clevisrem...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<3E84DFFF...@attbi.com>...
heather halvorson
Father Guido Sarducci wrote:
>
> Bless you my daughter.
>
oooo, i wish you were my daddy.
h
Steve Wingate
> Bottom line is that it there are a lot of factors that make a successful
> pro. Many guys have the physical talent, but they can't do it without all
> kinds of support - financial, emotional, etc. Personally, I needed a good
> manager badly. I very much regret not coming close to my potential as a Euro
> field sprinter. Dream about those races every night. Now isn't that
> pathetic?
>
> But thanks for the compliments guys.
>
> scott
I still remember your long solo breakaway in the Tour DuPont, only to be
caught just before the downhill finish. Righteous move for a sprinter!
I was looking for you to be the next Davis Phinney too.
ronde chumpion
Just the fact that the "am i funny, yes or no?" thread is quickly
encroaching on the Mario/Gord thread that includes the added bonus of
Scott making a valuable contribution is the proof I needed that this
cesspool is filled with retards.
Go ahead. respond to trolls.....Killfile nobody. Spend 80% of your
nonvaluable time wading through the shit. Bring RBR to it's knees.
Long live BioPace chainrings.
Nashbar now has a laptop mount for the handlebars, similiar to the
mounting system for the front handlebar bags of the past. With a
wireless set up, either through your cell phone, or passing the local
coffee shop with wi/fi, you can never leave the comfort of your
pretend little world while you ride. Oh, yeah, most of you have less
than 75 miles on the bicycle in 2003.
Thanks,
Ronde Chumpion
heather halvorson
ronde chumpion wrote:
>
.
> Go ahead. respond to trolls.....Killfile nobody. Spend 80% of your
> nonvaluable time wading through the shit. Bring RBR to it's knees.
> Long live BioPace chainrings.
when you write something like "Let's give proper respect to those that
earn it. Those who add no
value here are asked to just read, and perhaps post a little less frequently."
do you think the assholes are going to read that and take your advice?
no. one reason they are assholes is because they don't pay attention to
feed back from others. the people who might listen to you are the nice
people with small egos who will think, "i'm not a very good bike racer.
he's right. i shouldn't post anything to rbr." i've actually received
email saying these kinds of things. i happen to want to hear what nice
people with small egos have to say.
bye
heather
Kyle Legate
> Hey,
>
> Long live BioPace chainrings.
>
My second race bike had Biopace chainrings. They were fresh on the market
that year so i never got dissed for riding them. The stem was also too
short, making me bunched up and top heavy, and I think I crashed out of
races 5 or 6 times that year, with one crash taking me out for a month.
I blame Biopace.