Urgent! Looking for a few good articles on hoarding behavior
zuz...@webtv.net
I am looking for a few comprehensive, but easy to understand, articles
about hoarding behavior. To make a long story short, I work at a
warehouse one day a week and someone that rents space there has already
been dealt with by the city in the past for hoarding cats there. Even
though the warehouse is owned by someone else, he has been there for
years and years and has also hoarded useless junk, which is literally
stacked everwhere, in some places floor to ceiling. He has now brought
in three unspayed female cats from his home and has isolated them in a
separate, windowless room full of junk. They are extremely stressed and
going into heat now and I want to try to get custody of them, get them
spayed ASAP and find them homes, but I need to sit with the owner of the
building and convince him that there is a serious problem here, which at
this point he doesn't realize, and get permission (and help from him) to
deal with this. I would like to have some articles about this type of
behavior to underline the points I will be making about this whole sad
situation.
I know it should be an easy thing to convince the owner that what is
going on is bad, but there's a lot of history between the two men and
they are both "set in their ways" which complicates matters a great deal
and is making it very difficult for me. Any suggestions as to how to
deal with this and convince the guy with the cats to let me take them
would be welcome as well.
Thanks,
Megan
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
Sue
rescue!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!
Depending on your state, this animal abuse could even be
a criminal act.
Purrrz,
Sue
zuz...@webtv.net
>I cannot point you to the articles you
>want.
That's OK. I found one that is pretty good.
>But you must act, and act quickly. Just
>report the cats to the Animal Cruelty
>society. I am assuming you are in US, and
>I am UK so I do not know contact details
>for the organisation, but a web search or
>check the phone book. Make your report
>anonymously if you prefer, but do get
>those cats to safety.
See my post to Sue. :-(
>Of course, the cats could mysteriously
>'escape' but I would caution against this.
They would know who did it.
>Really the animal cruelty org needs to
>check out the guy who bought them here
>to check on the safety and welfare of any
>other cats he has.
See my post to Sue. :-(
>On a personal not, I am sorry, but I
>cannot check out your website. I looked at
>the front page and it was too upsetting. I
>am so thankful that it is not permitted in
>UK unless on medical grounds and then
>only with written permission from the
>Royal College of Vegetarian
veterinary? :-)
>Surgeons,
>otherwise the vet would be rightly struck
>off. I was gobsmacked when I found out
>about this practice on the cat ngs.
I know. it's a horrible thing they do, but I can tell you that the info
on my site has stopped many people from doing it to their cats, so as
horrible as the picture is, it is doing some good.
>I do hope you get those cats to safety
>soon. All my best wishes in dealing with
>this.
Thank you. I'm going to need them.
zuz...@webtv.net
BTDT. Even though what is happening to the cats is criminal in your and
my mind, it's not in the eyes of the law. The cats have shelter, food
and water and that's all the law requires. There is no spay requirement,
or a requirement that the cats have windows to look out of, loving care,
etc. It totally sucks, so I have no choice but to go this route. I also
have to be careful because this is going on at my job. If I piss off the
wrong person and get fired the cats are doomed so I have to tread
carefully. That is why I have written a letter going into detail about
the situation, all the bad things that can result, the hoarding issue
and my offer to get things under control and find homes for the cats.
Please keep your fingers crossed that things go in my favor.
Sean
really a good read. However, Gonzalez looked after his cats a lot
better than this.
Sean
cozy
they are in heat. However, he probably has too many cats and might be
willing to let them go if he thought someone was anxious to adopt them, with
no bad light shed on him.
--
<zuz...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23543-3E7...@storefull-2135.public.lawson.webtv.net...
val189
right there investigating and prob. seizing.
now i feel guilty abt closing the spay clinic ---- maybe I shudn't
talk.
val
Neil
To the original poster:
I suggest calling local gov't authorities for animal control, local
animal-protection groups such as no-kill shelter organizations, SPCA,
and anybody else you can think of. Not only will you learn the law and
get some ideas about how these groups can act on the problem, I bet
these authorities and groups have dealt with problems like this before
and will have some solutions for the problem.
I probably wouldn't bother with the articles on hoarding because I
don't know if the readers you mention will have some sort of catharsis
and decide to fix things. Instead, I suggest dealing with local
experts, such as those I suggest above.
I've never thought about hoarding of pets, although I've read of cases
where people kept enormous numbers of cats and/or dogs. Eventually
local authorities stepped in when it became clear that the pets
weren't being treated well.
Neil
> I am looking for a few comprehensive, but easy to understand, articles
> about hoarding behavior. To make a long story short, I work at a
> warehouse one day a week and someone that rents space there has already
> been dealt with by the city in the past for hoarding cats there.
Then that tells us that something illegal went on then and something
illegal may be occurring now. Contact local gov't authorities and ask
them what to do.
Even if the animals were in a conventional shelter, they'd have a
chance of finding an appreciative owner(s). You could also look for
no-kill shelters; we have several private, nonprofit groups where I
live. You may have these also.
>Even
> though the warehouse is owned by someone else, he has been there for
> years and years and has also hoarded useless junk, which is literally
> stacked everwhere, in some places floor to ceiling. He has now brought
> in three unspayed female cats from his home and has isolated them in a
> separate, windowless room full of junk. They are extremely stressed and
> going into heat now and I want to try to get custody of them, get them
> spayed ASAP and find them homes, but I need to sit with the owner of the
> building and convince him that there is a serious problem here, which at
> this point he doesn't realize, and get permission (and help from him) to
> deal with this. I would like to have some articles about this type of
> behavior to underline the points I will be making about this whole sad
> situation.
I think that would be nice to enlist his help, and you could give it a
try, but ultimately you may have to use local authorities and experts
who will probably have much more experience in solving these problems
and a better awareness of possible solutions.
> I know it should be an easy thing to convince the owner that what is
> going on is bad, but there's a lot of history between the two men and
> they are both "set in their ways" which complicates matters a great deal
> and is making it very difficult for me. Any suggestions as to how to
> deal with this and convince the guy with the cats to let me take them
> would be welcome as well.
For starters, why not just ask to take the cats?
If that doesn't work, you can work up to sterner measures, such as
those I've described in this thread.
val189
you'll be happy to know that all our clients had to sign a form to the
effect that no declawing was done by our clinic - otherwise, I could
not apply to Bob Barker foundation for some grant money.
Our vet will not declaw, but we still had to prove this to Bob for the
money.
if you want to see some real flame wars, go over to alt.cats when the
declawing issue comes up, wh. is like every other thread.....the pro
declawers love to stir the embers...
val
zuz...@webtv.net
but I don't. I wrote a letter to the owner of the building, which I will
include below, and gave it to him Wednesday. I heard nothing.
I got to work this afternoon (I come after everyone has gone home) and
was met by the man who has the cats. He basically went ballistic on me
and at one point I thought he was going to hit me. He is in major denial
about the cats and even lied to my face claiming he cleans the
litterboxes daily when it was obvious they had not been tended to for
some time. He doesn't have the money to get them spayed so they are
doomed to live in that room for probably a few more months at the
minimum. I asked him what he would do if one or more of them gets
Pyometra and he said "I don't give a fuck."
He also threatened me with legal action and said he was going to get a
restraining order and I told him to go right ahead, that I'd love to see
the judge's reaction when the whole story is told. I told him to his
face that he was an animal abuser and that his cats should not have to
live like that and then I walked away before I was met with physical
violence.
What really irked me is that the owner of the building is too much of a
coward to do anything about the situation and basically stabbed me in
the back by showing my letter to Chuck and doing nothing. I have no
power to help these cats, and as I stated in a previous message the law
only says that shelter, food and water must be provided, so calling the
HS won't help either. I cannot continue to work there knowing what's
going on and being forced to stand by and do nothing, so I left my keys
and a note to the boss telling him I quit. This is breaking my heart.
Please pray for the poor babies.
Megan
***********
Here's the letter:
Dear Mike,
I will begin by apologizing for bringing up the subject of cats, which I
know is not your favorite. However, things have now come to a point
where I can no longer remain silent.
There is a quote from a famous statesman, Edmund Burke, which says "The
only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." I have taken this to heart and try to live by it on a daily
basis, which is why I must bring this matter to your attention.
I am writing to you today in the hopes that you will seriously consider
what I am about to say to you and I am hoping you will agree to help me.
I am starting out with this letter because I know that if I were to try
to begin this discussion in person I would break down in tears and not
get across all the points I need to make as this subject has been a
source of great anguish for me for quite some time now.
Several months ago, Chuck brought three cats down to the shop with the
intent of making them "shop cats" even though the only life they had
ever known up to that point was one of living in a comfortable home with
a lot of human contact. I had voiced my concerns at that time about the
cats not being spayed, and I assumed that you informed Chuck that they
were not allowed free run of the shop until they were fixed which was
evidenced by their ongoing confinement.
When I was cleaning last Friday I heard a horrific howling coming from
the other side of the door next to the bathroom in the hallway. I didn't
realize that the room the cats were in up front went all the way back to
your office hallway and I thought that a cat had been inadvertently
trapped.
I opened the door to see what was the matter. Three cats came running
towards me in obvious distress. Chuck has not only locked them up in a
windowless room for months with little human contact, but none of the
cats are spayed yet and are now going into heat. I saw the litterboxes
he made available to them and they are not only inadequate but were
filled to the brim with waste, which is totally unacceptable. What was
even more disturbing was the obvious stress these cats are exhibiting
from living in a space that is not remotely acceptable for cats (dirty
conditions, no fresh air, no windows, minimal human contact, unknown and
potentially toxic substances.)
They are essentially in a prison, which is inhumane and cruel. At least
one is in heat and the rest will soon follow. You may not be aware of
the situation as it stands, but I know that your heart would never allow
Shelby to live under such conditions and these poor innocent cats should
not have to either.
There are other serious concerns. An intact male cat can detect a female
in
heat from a distance as far as 5 miles, and with three females in heat I
have no doubt that the tomcats will be coming out of the woodwork
shortly. They will start fighting and spraying and all the hard work you
did to clean up the last mess will be undone. If one should manage to
slip into the room where the females are, which is a very real
possibility, you will have three litters of kittens in no time and the
problem that the city had to deal with years ago will begin all over
again, and the cats are the ones who will suffer.
Cats in heat mark territory with urine, and I could already smell it in
the room. The fact that the litterboxes were so filthy is also a huge
problem and the cats will likely choose to urinate and defecate
elsewhere for that reason as well.
Confined females in heat suffer greatly. They are extremely stressed and
there are many health risks associated with unspayed cats. There is a
risk of mammary cancer. The cats are at risk of developing a uterine
infection known as
pyometra, a severe and lethal infection which poisons the cat from the
inside. A cat with pyometra can possibly be saved with an emergency
spay, but you and I both know that trips to the vet for these cats
rarely, if ever, happen or are delayed for weeks/months, which ensures
that the cat that develops this will meet with a horrible death.
There has already been one incident (last summer) where a cat suffered
and died horribly and unnecessarily directly as a result of Chuck's
neglect. I know this because I did the best I could for the cat when I
saw his injury and begged Chuck to get him to a vet the next morning,
underlining the fact that this was a medical emergency and if left
untreated the cat would die. He agreed to and assured me he would do it
the next morning, but he never did because "he didn't get around to it."
The cat disappeared, obviously because he did not get treatment and
died. I will never forgive myself for not taking action at that moment
and taking the cat to the vet myself because I was afraid to rock the
boat, and as a result the death of that cat haunts me to this day.
These kinds of events will never stop unless action is taken. This is a
serious problem that, if ignored, will only get worse. As you know, the
welfare of cats and other animals is of utmost importance to me. I have
spent the last 25 years doing rescue and trying to make things better
for the ones I can. What is happening at the shop is heartbreaking.
These cats are suffering and something needs to be done for them.
I have thought long and hard about this and I believe I have come up
with a workable solution that will benefit all involved, and I am
requesting your permission and a little bit of help.
I would like to gain custody of the cats. I know that Chuck had spoken
at one time about adopting out the kitten so it seems that this is
within the realm of possibility. This is where I would ask for your help
in finding a way to convince Chuck to let me have them, as you are much
better at communicating with him than I.
I cannot take them home with me as I am at my limit and have no extra
room. What I am hoping for is that you would allow me to improve their
living conditions, keep them where they are and be their guardian until
homes are found.
Until homes are found I would take full responsibility for all aspects
of their care.
What I would like to do is get them into the vet right away to get
spayed, and while they are gone I would clean out an area in the room
they are in and build a large temporary enclosure for them made of 7'x
4' panels constructed (by me) using 2x4's and garden fencing. I would
also get a roll of vinyl flooring to put down temporarily in order to
keep things as clean as possible as I wouldn't want the spay incisions
to be exposed to dirt and get infected.
In the enclosure I would provide several large litterboxes, clean
bedding, scratching posts, some boxes to play in and toys. I also have
access to a small TV and VCR I can play for them since they don't have
any windows, and have an extra radio as well to provide some mental
stimulation.
I have a friend that has a shelter account with www.petfinder.com and
she has already agreed to give me space to list cats for adoption. I
also have several vet clinics and pet stores where I could put up signs
listing cats for adoption.
I am willing to take full responsibility for the cats including food and
litter and will make a commitment to care for these cats for however
long it takes.
I know that your reaction will probably be that I shouldn't have to do
this, but *** I WANT TO DO THIS *** because the cats will get everything
they need, get excellent care and end up in loving homes. That is what
is important and I hope that you know you can trust me to do this.
I don't want these cats to end up in a shelter, or worse, forced to live
at the shop or in Chuck's garage at home where he has already stated he
plans to keep cats. Right now kitten season is beginning and what this
means is that the shelters are flooded with animals and the majority of
them, especially adults, are killed to make room for the new ones.
Minneapolis Animal Control has suffered greatly because of the city
budget cuts and right now pretty much every animal going in is being
killed, with the exception of the very few the private rescues can get
out of there.
I can't save them all, but I *can* save these three. I am begging and
pleading with you to allow me to do this and give me a little help.
Please give my request serious consideration, and I am hoping and
praying that you say yes.
If you would like to discuss this further I can arrange my schedule this
Friday so I can get to the shop earlier if it's convenient for you.
Please let me know.
The cats have no voice and cannot plead their case.
Thank you for reading this.
Sincerely,
Moira de Swardt
val189 <gweh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> if you want to see some real flame wars, go over to alt.cats when
the
> declawing issue comes up, wh. is like every other thread.....the
pro
> declawers love to stir the embers...
When I was a child we acquired a cat and had every intention of
keeping her mainly indoors. Some people may have declawed such a
cat. However this cat preferred to be outdoors, and wouldn't even
come in to sleep, so declawing her would have left her totally
without protection.
Thinking that this was a once off aberration I was surprized to find
that my sister acquired a small kitten who developed a similar
outdoor pattern despite the intention for the cat being an indoor
cat.
Accordingly I have personal ethics which say that I wouldn't declaw
a cat.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Ms. Tori
I think you wrote an excellent letter - you were caring and non-threatening;
you detailed the problem from your boss' perspective as well as your own,
and you offered a workable (and generous) solution. I think many employers
would value these traits in an employee, and your boss has lost a lot by his
inaction.
I'm sorry about the confrontation with the cat owner. You also have my
sympathy on having to quit your job. Now that you have quit, however, please
reconsider contacting the local animal control office or humane society. The
worst that can happen is that they say "no" again, but they just might help.
Best of luck,
Tori
<zuz...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13860-3E7...@storefull-2136.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Barb Grajewski
On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Moira de Swardt wrote:
> Thinking that this was a once off aberration I was surprized to find
> that my sister acquired a small kitten who developed a similar
> outdoor pattern despite the intention for the cat being an indoor
> cat.
I don't understand. An INDOOR cat is supposed to be kept, um, INdoors.
So how do they get a taste for the outdoors if they never are allowed out?
for the record, I've owned many cats, none declawed, all neutered, who
were all indoor cats. they all WANTED to go outdoors, but simply were
never allowed. Windows had screens, and door opening was done with care
ALWAYS. I think there were 3 escapes in 20+ years, and each time I found
them outside cowering under a bush, because they found that being outdoors
was a lot scarier than they had thought!
BTW, my furniture did get clawed up, even with scratching posts and pads,
but it was simply par for the course, and not worth getting into a tizzy
over. I didn't get new furniture til after they were gone.
Seanette Blaylock
say about Re: Urgent! Looking for a few good articles on hoarding
behavior:
>for the record, I've owned many cats, none declawed, all neutered, who
>were all indoor cats. they all WANTED to go outdoors, but simply were
>never allowed. Windows had screens, and door opening was done with care
>ALWAYS. I think there were 3 escapes in 20+ years, and each time I found
>them outside cowering under a bush, because they found that being outdoors
>was a lot scarier than they had thought!
My cat is a shelter adoptee who'd been picked up as a stray. In our
current apartment, he gets use of an enclosed patio, which I think is
as much outside as he really needs, given how our neighbors "drive"
and other factors. The few times he's gone out the front door, I found
him nearby, cowering and more than ready to come back in. When we
bring him home from the vet, as soon as I open the car door, he's
scurrying right to our front door and giving me a "Let's get this door
open TODAY, Mom!" look. :-)
--
Seanette Blaylock
"You attribute perfect rationality to the whole of humanity, which has
to be one of the most misguided assumptions ever." - Alan Krueger in NANAE
[make obvious correction to address to send e-mail]
Kim Olson
>the
>> declawing issue comes up, wh. is like every other thread.....the
>pro
>> declawers love to stir the embers...
I am a pro-declawer, by necessity rather than choice, which thus far I've
never had as a renter; if I want cats, they must be declawed, and I do want
them. Figure it's better than letting a healthy kitty be euthanized.
However, I don't like the inference that pro-declawers "like to stir the
embers" any more than the anti-declaw folks do. Like most other hotly debated
issues, each side gets its zings in plenty. I view declawing as a necessity
similar to spaying in this case -- not particularly fun for (and probably not
particularly fair to) kitty, by any means, but a necessary evil. I don't see
people wandering around offering to give up their reproductive organs even
though they support spaying/neutering, just as I'm not going to let someone
remove my fingernails to see what it's like to be declawed. And I know there
are alternatives, like the rubber tips you can have put on kitty claws if you
haven't the stomach to clip them yourself, but I haven't the income to afford
them, at least at present.
I also no longer have the courage to snip kitty claws myself even if my cats
could be fully clawed, after my dearly beloved and now deceased first kitty
nearly took an eye out when I tried to clip hers. I still have a nasty scar
just under and very close to my right eye that I shudder at every time I look
at it; I was literally so lucky not to be blinded. Poor kitty didn't mean to
do it by any means, but once is enough. I'd been debating whether to try and
get away with not having her done (she was three months old and had just
gotten old enough to declaw, and the lease said I had to when she was, but
until that moment I'd been firmly anti-declaw enough to risk it), but the next
day I took her to the vet and handed her over with very few qualms. The other
girls have gone in to have theirs done since with about the same attitude I
have when they're spayed; it may not be fair, but it's the best way to have
them under my personal circumstances.
In article <3e7c3ddb$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, "Moira de Swardt"
Kim Olson
Writing and Editing Services
Email Kime...@earthlink.net for rates and information
Free newsletter, The Lazy Vegan
For more information, visit http://home.earthlink.net/~kimcof/lazyvegan.htm
A small trouble is like a pebble. Hold it too close to your eye and it fills the whole world and puts everything out of focus. Hold it at a proper distance and it can be examined and properly classified. Throw it at your feet and it can be seen in its true setting, just one more tiny bump on the pathway to life.
- Celia Luce
kevinsmom
news:8u5fa.14698$pK4.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > nearly took an eye out when I tried to clip hers. I still have a
nasty scar
> just under and very close to my right eye that I shudder at every time
I look
> at it; I was literally so lucky not to be blinded. Poor kitty didn't
mean to
> do it by any means, but once is enough.
One of mine, I only trim her claws when DH holds her for me. It always
sounds like WWIII, that cat can cuss!
Moira de Swardt
Barb Grajewski <barb...@uic.edu> wrote in message
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Moira de Swardt wrote:
> > Thinking that this was a once off aberration I was surprized to
find
> > that my sister acquired a small kitten who developed a similar
> > outdoor pattern despite the intention for the cat being an
indoor
> > cat.
> I don't understand. An INDOOR cat is supposed to be kept, um,
INdoors.
> So how do they get a taste for the outdoors if they never are
allowed out?
We don't *confine* the cat to the house, but it is
allowed/encouraged to be indoors and fed inside and a litter box is
kept indoors. I have no idea how they acquire a preference for
staying outdoors, as only two cats have ever done it, and no dog our
family has ever owned has developed such a strange predeliction.
Moira, the Faerie Godmother
kevinsmom
>
> I don't understand. An INDOOR cat is supposed to be kept, um,
INdoors.
> So how do they get a taste for the outdoors if they never are allowed
out?
It happens a lot when your DH makes a habit of feeding strays.
Nathalie Chiva
> about declawing -
> you'll be happy to know that all our clients had to sign a form to the
> effect that no declawing was done by our clinic
A few years ago, I didn't even *know* declawing could be done.
After reading the description, and reading the cat newsgroups, you cannot
imagine how *glad* I am that it it outlawed here in Switzerland. Just to
think about it makes me shudder.
Nathalie in Switzerland
N.S.D
>INdoors.
>> So how do they get a taste for the outdoors if they never are allowed
>out?
>
>It happens a lot when your DH makes a habit of feeding strays.
Have you seen that very funny list titled "Unbending Rules for
Dealing With Stray Cats"? It starts out.... "stray cats will not
be fed." Then "stray cats will not be fed anything except dry cat
food." etc... you can guess how it goes on from there! :-)
- Naomi D.
--
No more will our green sea go turn a deeper blue.
I could not foresee this thing happening to you.
kevinsmom
news:HaKfa.620$1W3....@news.ca.inter.net...
> >It happens a lot when your DH makes a habit of feeding strays.
>
> Have you seen that very funny list titled "Unbending Rules for
> Dealing With Stray Cats"? It starts out.... "stray cats will not
> be fed." Then "stray cats will not be fed anything except dry cat
> food." etc... you can guess how it goes on from there! :-)
Oh, yes. People send it to me from time to time.
val189
outlawed? my gawd. what a nice factoid.
val
Nathalie Chiva
> > A few years ago, I didn't even *know* declawing could be done.
> > After reading the description, and reading the cat newsgroups, you cannot
> > imagine how *glad* I am that it it outlawed here in Switzerland. Just to
> > think about it makes me shudder.
> >
> > Nathalie in Switzerland
>
> outlawed? my gawd. what a nice factoid.
> val
Well, it's definitely unnecessary cruelty to animals.
Nathalie in Switzerland
Minteeleaf
> Please note, I am not claiming UK or Europe is in anyway superior in
> terms of animal welfare. How could I, the UK still has not banned fox
> hunting despite this Government's election promise to ban it.
>
> Rich
IMO, fox hunting is a savage thing.
We have lots of red foxes here, somehow they still
survive in suburbia. They are quite beautiful.
Minteeleaf
kevinsmom
news:3E91DB43...@hotmail.com...
>
> IMO, fox hunting is a savage thing.
> We have lots of red foxes here, somehow they still
> survive in suburbia. They are quite beautiful.
I've read some of the Mrs. Murphy mysteries that are set in Virginia.
Is fox hunting really as big of a deal in Virginia as the books make it
sound?
Viv
cross-country.
Viv
"kevinsmom" <to be announced> wrote in message
news:v93nhog...@corp.supernews.com...
Minteeleaf
>
> "Minteeleaf" <sews...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3E91DB43...@hotmail.com...
> >
> > survive in suburbia. They are quite beautiful.
>
> I've read some of the Mrs. Murphy mysteries that are set in Virginia.
> Is fox hunting really as big of a deal in Virginia as the books make it
> sound?
I have no idea; it would only be the moneyed class that would
do that; probably old money. I can't qualify in any case. :-)
Minteeleaf
Piper
http://home.wlu.edu/~mortonc/vhw2002/index.html
I attended festivities once while I lived out there and it was
unbelievable. Take a look at the dress codes for the hunters,
for example. Even informal attire, what they call "ratcatcher,"
is way beyond my ken.
http://www.loudounhunt.com/Misc/Attire.pdf
I wouldn't have attended had my friend not had press passes. I
knew after one trip I'd never go again. Whew....
Deena
"kevinsmom" <to be announced> wrote in message
news:v93nhog...@corp.supernews.com...
Ellen K. Hursh
>Rich wrote:
>
>>otherwise the vet would be rightly struck off. I was gobsmacked when I
>>found out about this practice on the cat ngs.
>
> I know. it's a horrible thing they do, but I can tell you that the info
> on my site has stopped many people from doing it to their cats, so as
> horrible as the picture is, it is doing some good.
Part of my motive for not having it done to my cats is that declawed
cats apparently have a greater tendency to be biters (as my previous cat
- whose declawing I did *not* have a say in# - was)... I decided that
dealing with trimming claws was a fair trade-off for not getting bitten
as much (not to mention for *other* people not to get bitten!).
There was the humane aspect too, of course, but the pragmatic/practical
(as well as financial##!) part of the question was a pretty big one.
> Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
> http://www.stopdeclaw.com
>
> Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
> http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
# Seeing as how I was 6 at the time. When my mom was acquired by two
kitties a few years back, I tried to talk her into learning how to do
the nail trimming too, but instead she had 'em declawed. <sigh>
## Cost of the surgery, vs the cost of stuff destroyed by clawing. All
they've nailed (pun unintended) has been a few cardboard boxes (which
ought to get emptied/tossed *anyway*) and the boxspring of our bed.
They'll leave the latter alone, though, if I growl at them (they only
seem to claw when they have an audience). Not a tough choice.
--
Ellen K Hursh - wake up my addy to send me e-mail
"And isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony, anyway? I mean,
all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good
and crazy, ooh ooh ooh, the sky's the limit!" -- The Tick
Ellen K. Hursh
> My dad used to "hunt." They wouldn't hunt anything, though, just ride
> cross-country.
Is this the sort of "hunting" that involves going out in the countryside
and drinking beer? :-)
> "kevinsmom" <to be announced> wrote in message
> news:v93nhog...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>"Minteeleaf" <sews...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:3E91DB43...@hotmail.com...
>>
>>>IMO, fox hunting is a savage thing.
>>>We have lots of red foxes here, somehow they still
>>>survive in suburbia. They are quite beautiful.
>>
>>I've read some of the Mrs. Murphy mysteries that are set in Virginia.
>>Is fox hunting really as big of a deal in Virginia as the books make it
>>sound?
--
Viv
other funny thing is they dressed up like they were riding English but rode
on Western saddles.
Viv
"Ellen K. Hursh" <ekh...@bdexx.comATOSE> wrote in message
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