Helmet Wankers
Tom Kunich
helmets in a way that shows helmet wankers as what they are - stupid ass
blowhards:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3451325.stm
You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off of
the cowboy.
Next: baby safety helmet for any time they're put in strollers.
frkrygow
:-)
Can you picture Crocodile Dundee in a foam hat?
How would he attach the animal-claw headband?
"Aw, no, mate, y'can't be puttin' that on there! Why, what if one of
them claws fell off and scratched yer chin? That counts as a head
injury, y'know!"
--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]
Q.
news:A2DTb.10030$uM2....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
good it did him.
C.Q.C.
Marty
> helmets in a way that shows helmet wankers as what they are
Hey Tom
Tom since when has the helmet debate been a limited to a certain time
of the year? And besides, it's summer in Australia and winter in
America so you can't say it's due to the weather. Us helmet wankers
like to look after our heads all year 'round, unlike the non-helmet
wankers who just don't seem to care at all.
Marty
David Reuteler
: Us helmet wankers
: like to look after our heads all year 'round, unlike the non-helmet
: wankers who just don't seem to care at all.
& we're off ...
hey, coincidentally look what i rediscovered a few weeks ago. i hadn't
seen these in years.
+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==================================================================
... or alternately:
___________________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please don't |
/ O O\__ feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
.. or:
\|||/
(o o)
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please |
| don't feed the |
| TROLL's ! |
'--------------Ooo--'
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo
.. or most simply:
+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
| |
| |
.\|.||/..
tho i don't expect anyone to seriously take the bait, having just had that
particuliarly long winded helmet thread only a few months back. neat ascii
graphics, tho.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Peter Keller
You wouldn't expect it to. I don't see any way a helmet can protect
against neck injury.
--
This transmission is certified free of viruses as no Microsoft products
were used in its preparation or propagation.
Trent Piepho
Tom Kunich <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3451325.stm
>
>You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off of
>the cowboy.
First they came for the motorcyclists, but I didn't care because I didn't
ride.
Then they came for the bicyclists, but I said nothing because I didn't
pedal.
Then they came for the cowboys, but I kept quiet because I didn't ride a
horse.
Who's next?
>
>Next: baby safety helmet for any time they're put in strollers.
Ok, who's next after that? Are there any helmet laws that effect more than
20% of any population? Or is it just minorities who get told what to wear?
Easier to get the laws passed when you select some small group, and say, "look
at these risk takers, they do something you don't! They raise your insurance!
Make them wear a funny hat so we can all see that they are different. Isn't
it fun to make other people live they way you want them to live?"
Q.
>neat ascii graphics, tho.
Yeah well ... take that ...
http://tinyurl.com/25mqd (way too big to post)
Live long and prosper!
C.Q.C.
David Kerber
hotmail.com> says...
He didn't get a head injury, did he? I guess the helmet did its job
<G,D&RVVVVVVVVF>
--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!
REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
Marty
> Marty <ma...@geo.net.au> wrote:
> : Us helmet wankers
> : like to look after our heads all year 'round, unlike the non-helmet
> : wankers who just don't seem to care at all.
>
> & we're off ...
>
> hey, coincidentally look what i rediscovered a few weeks ago. i hadn't
> seen these in years.
>
> +-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
> | PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
> | FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
> | | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
> | Thank you, | ( (_) )
> | Management | /`-vvv-'\
> +-------------------+ / \
> | | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
> | | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
> @x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
> \||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
> \||/ | | | (______Y______)
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> ==================================================================
>
Awww c'mon Dave, you've only got to wave a helmet at Kunich and he
starts barking. It's good fun!
Marty
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>As is always the case at this time of the year, some wanker has to bring up
>helmets in a way that shows helmet wankers as what they are - stupid ass
>blowhards:
As is always the case when some jerkoff wants a MHL, somebody trolls
to start another usenet helmet war.
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3451325.stm
That is pretty dumb.
>You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off of
>the cowboy.
Don't confuse country cowboys with Australian bushmen a la Crocodile
Dundee.
>Next: baby safety helmet for any time they're put in strollers.
Next: Usenet war about potential mandatory glove laws when somebody
loses a hand in a machine and OSHA mandates gloves for that
industry...
--
Rick "You call that a troll? Now THAT'S a troll!" Dundee
Rick Onanian
wrote:
*sigh*...even with a fixed-width font, it just doesn't look as good
as it would on an old 25 line console-mode screen...
--
Rick Onanian
Peter Cole
>
> As is always the case when some jerkoff wants a MHL, somebody trolls
> to start another usenet helmet war.
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3451325.stm
>
> That is pretty dumb.
>
> loses a hand in a machine and OSHA mandates gloves for that
> industry...
In the park where I do volunteer MTB patrol, a woman died after her horse
reared and she struck her unhelmeted head on a rock. Most equestrians wear
helmets these days.
I got my first (and only) factory job because the kid who ran the machine
before me lost his hand in it.
I take this shit seriously. Whatever.
Rick Onanian
<peter_cole_n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net>
>> Next: Usenet war about potential mandatory glove laws when somebody
>> loses a hand in a machine and OSHA mandates gloves for that
>> industry...
>
>In the park where I do volunteer MTB patrol, a woman died after her horse
>reared and she struck her unhelmeted head on a rock. Most equestrians wear
>helmets these days.
>
>I got my first (and only) factory job because the kid who ran the machine
>before me lost his hand in it.
>
>I take this shit seriously. Whatever.
It's great to take it seriously outside of the usenet context; but
here, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, and one can save
lots of bandwidth by rapidly defusing it with humor [or a reasonable
facsimile] before it grows (although there's no guarantee that the
fuse will not stay lit anyway). Did you see last year's big helmet
war? Probably a good two thousand messages among three or four
threads, and I doubt that there was a single person who was
influenced in any way.
--
Rick Onanian
David Reuteler
: http://tinyurl.com/25mqd (way too big to post)
ohh, come on .. i'm old enuf to remember the BBS days. you could have at
least given me one of the nudie ones.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Gary Smiley
Tom Kunich
news:pan.2004.02.03....@ihug.co.nz...
Of course you can't relive an old injury but some people believe that if he
wasn't wearing the helmet he would have sustained a fractured skull that
would have given him a better chance of complete recovery.
But "what if's" aren't worth a damn.
Tom Kunich
news:bvnj38$oni$1...@venturi.cfr.washington.edu...
>
> Ok, who's next after that? Are there any helmet laws that effect more
than
> 20% of any population? Or is it just minorities who get told what to
wear?
> Easier to get the laws passed when you select some small group, and say,
"look
> at these risk takers, they do something you don't! They raise your
insurance!
> Make them wear a funny hat so we can all see that they are different.
Isn't
> it fun to make other people live they way you want them to live?"
You've hit the nail directly on the head Trent. (better wear a safety helmet
for that too)
If you don't fight it in every single instance you are going to be next.
Q.
> Q. <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote:
> : http://tinyurl.com/25mqd (way too big to post)
>
> ohh, come on .. i'm old enuf to remember the BBS days. you could have at
> least given me one of the nudie ones.
LOL! That's exactly what I was thinking of when I looked that one up. But
this is a public forum, and I'm not Janet Jackson (doh!).
However, since you asked ...
And ASCII art is even preserved in a museum:
Ahhhh ... the good ol' days of Commodore 64's and daisy wheel printers
*sniff*
C.Q.C.
CSB
wrote:
>As is always the case at this time of the year, some wanker has to bring up
I think we should thank the Australians for being guinea pigs in
studying the effects of helmet compulsion. If they are willing to be
of use to horse riders in other countries as well, then why not?
Q.
"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote
<snip>
>Did you see last year's big helmet
> war? Probably a good two thousand messages among three or four
> threads, and I doubt that there was a single person who was
> influenced in any way.
I was ... I decided that when I go visit my cousin in the Peoples Republic
of Canadia this summer to cover my (mandatory) magic foam hat with tin foil
(c:
C.Q.C.
David Reuteler
: Ahhhh ... the good ol' days of Commodore 64's and daisy wheel printers
: *sniff*
for me it was imsais & apple2's .. novation applecats, catfur, ascii express,
blue boxing bell south, CP/M, g-files, gbbs, fidonet, LoD, pdp11s, RSTS/E,
VMS, unix, the 414 gang and busts by the secret service.
ahhhhh, youth!
& those graphics were beautiful. picture #6 is in the style i remember.
somewhere around here i've got a mess of floppies full of g-files and BBS
sessions. pity i don't have an 8" drive anywhere.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Allister McLaren
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:45:04 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >As is always the case at this time of the year, some wanker has to bring up
> >helmets in a way that shows helmet wankers as what they are - stupid ass
> >blowhards:
>
> As is always the case when some jerkoff wants a MHL, somebody trolls
> to start another usenet helmet war.
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3451325.stm
>
> That is pretty dumb.
Indeed. I would say the health benefits from a wide brimmed hat
outweight the slight chance of a head injury from falling in that
environment. The case in point was from 2001? It's hardly an epidemic.
>
> >You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off of
> >the cowboy.
>
> Don't confuse country cowboys with Australian bushmen a la Crocodile
> Dundee.
WTF? Bushmen live in the Kalahari, and I'm sure even they don't call
themselves that. The correct term is jackaroo. For the record,
'Crocodile' Dundee, in the fictional universe created in the movie,
was neither a bushman nor a jackaroo. The correct term for what he was
is 'poacher'.
HTH ;)
Allister
Rick Onanian
McLaren) wrote:
>> >You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off of
>> >the cowboy.
>>
>> Don't confuse country cowboys with Australian bushmen a la Crocodile
>> Dundee.
>
>WTF? Bushmen live in the Kalahari, and I'm sure even they don't call
>themselves that. The correct term is jackaroo.
...and cowboys live everywhere, and don't call themselves that. The
correct term is farmer. I was saying "get your stereotypes right",
not "stop stereotyping". "Stop stereotyping" is a whole other
argument.
>For the record,
>'Crocodile' Dundee, in the fictional universe created in the movie,
>was neither a bushman nor a jackaroo. The correct term for what he was
>is 'poacher'.
He claimed to be a bushman, just as characters in western movies
call themselves cowboys when they never touch a cow...the correct
term is 'outlaw' or sometimes 'vigilante'.
--
Rick Onanian
John Doe
"CSB" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:ttg020176l99sotdt...@4ax.com...<snip>
>
> >You can take the cowboy out of the country but you can't take the hat off
of
> >the cowboy.
> >
as it happens a young cattle drover was recently killed by a fall. It is a
tradition for these guys to wear Akubra hats while on a muster. Not anymore
say WorkCover (Govt Dept). The station owner was negligent for not making
these guys wear helmets.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/02/1075570335910.html
Peter Keller
> "Peter Keller" <mu...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.03....@ihug.co.nz...
>
>> > Christopher Reeves fell from a horse and landed *helmet first* ... fat
> lotta
>> > good it did him.
>> >
>> > C.Q.C.
>>
>> You wouldn't expect it to. I don't see any way a helmet can protect
>> against neck injury.
>>
>> --
>> This transmission is certified free of viruses as no Microsoft products
>> were used in its preparation or propagation.
>
>
> Of course you can't relive an old injury but some people believe that if he
> wasn't wearing the helmet he would have sustained a fractured skull that
> would have given him a better chance of complete recovery.
>
> But "what if's" aren't worth a damn.
I agree. I can think of advantages and disadvantages, reasons to wear a
helmet and reasons not to wear. The statistics are, to say the least,
inconsistent and randomly confusing; unlike the statistics for wearing
seatbelts which show in general a good positive effect. In this situation
I don't think a mandatory law is helpful at all; intelligent people should
be able to make up their own minds considering their personal
circumstances.
Peter
Just zis Guy, you know?
news:tq_Tb.41591$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> as it happens a young cattle drover was recently killed by a fall. It is
a
> tradition for these guys to wear Akubra hats while on a muster. Not
anymore
> say WorkCover (Govt Dept). The station owner was negligent for not making
> these guys wear helmets.
So that makes the fatality rate - what? one per century?
--
Guy
===
WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
Terry Collins
> So that makes the fatality rate - what? one per century?
About 15 a year apparently.
Of course, inevitably, they are going to have to apply the same standard
to all those people driving company cars and force them to wear helmets.
Fred Nieman
Car helmets - bad idea, obviously. If it wasn't, racing drivers would
wear them. Oops, they do.
Remember, there were once people (backed up, no doubt, by the results
described in peer reviewed scholarly journals) who claimed it was safer
to be thrown clear of a car in a smash than be strapped in by
seatbelts.
----
If you ride a bicycle for long enough, well, statistically, you're going
to take falls, and take a bad fall sometime or other. If you don't
think so, you are either or both of a) lucky b) a fool.
Collar-bones heal. Scafoids (most times) heal. Broken arms, dislocated
shoulders, skin over ankles, knees, hips, back, arms and hands all
heal. Acquired brain injuries don't heal. Of course, people with ABIs
can and do sometimes regain abilities. But it's not like waiting six
weeks for the cast to come off then simply doing what you did before the
fall - ask someone with an ABI.
A bicycle helmet (probably) didn't save my life, nor did it stop me from
getting smashed and ripped up really badly, which generally happens when
you hit the asphalt at 60 kph. But it did mean I can still walk, talk,
ride a bicycle.
And same goes for all the many less major falls before and after - any a
hit to my bare head, on pavement, car, trail or whatever, might have
meant a concussion, a subdural haemorrhage, or worse. I haven't had to
find this out, though. Because... well, you know why.
I could go on, but time to stop sermonising. And sorry for the
crosspost to u.r.c, but, ummm, you started it? (joke!)
xxx
p
Just zis Guy, you know?
news:4020DD40...@hotmail.com...
> Remember, there were once people (backed up, no doubt, by the results
> described in peer reviewed scholarly journals) who claimed it was safer
> to be thrown clear of a car in a smash than be strapped in by
> seatbelts.
Remember there were once people who compared the fatality rates in countries
with and without sealt belt laws and found them to be the same. Obviously
that couldn't be right, so that data was buried. Amazingly, when the UK
introduced sealt belt legislation - driver fatalities stayed the same! But
there was a substantial rise in pedestrian, cyclist and rear-seat passenger
fatalities.
> If you ride a bicycle for long enough, well, statistically, you're going
> to take falls, and take a bad fall sometime or other. If you don't
> think so, you are either or both of a) lucky b) a fool.
There is no inevitability about it.
> Collar-bones heal. Scafoids (most times) heal. Broken arms, dislocated
> shoulders, skin over ankles, knees, hips, back, arms and hands all
> heal. Acquired brain injuries don't heal.
And acquired brain injuries - amazingly - are mostly caused by crashes well
outside the design envelope of hlemets, and by mechanisms which helmets do
nothing to mitigate.
> A bicycle helmet (probably) didn't save my life, nor did it stop me from
> getting smashed and ripped up really badly, which generally happens when
> you hit the asphalt at 60 kph. But it did mean I can still walk, talk,
> ride a bicycle.
Or not. Maybe it was your Mk. 1 Skull which did the job. That would be a
reasonable assumption, given that people not wearing helmets also often
survive without significant injury. That's the problem with
helmet-saved-my-life anecdotes, they always attribute the outcome solely to
helmets. Why? Lids are designed for straight impacts at speeds up to about
12mph. Why should we assume that they work in glancing or rotational
impacts at higher speeds? And what about the people who die when wearing
helmets? And the people who don't die when not wearing helmets?
At the population level it's not possible to proive that helmets have any
effect on brain injury. And even then, most cyclists who die of head injury
turn out to have other mortal injuries as well.
The case for helmets really is not half as cut-and-dried as the Liddites
would like us to believe.
The only absolutely repeatable effect of helmet legislation is a substantial
drop in cycling. And the major determinant of risk for cyclists appears to
be the number of cyclists - the more people cycle, the safer it gets.
> And same goes for all the many less major falls before and after - any a
> hit to my bare head, on pavement, car, trail or whatever, might have
> meant a concussion, a subdural haemorrhage, or worse. I haven't had to
> find this out, though. Because... well, you know why.
Why? I have had several crashes with and without helmets and there was no
noticeable difference in outcomes. The most serious head injury I ever had
was going through a low doorway. Should we have compulsory helmets in old
buildings? Or only for tall people?
Mark Thompson
> described in peer reviewed scholarly journals) who claimed it was safer
> to be thrown clear of a car in a smash than be strapped in by
> seatbelts.
I love statements like this - wonder if it's true. Prize for whoever can point
out why this statement, if true, is still a load of balls
> If you ride a bicycle for long enough, well, statistically, you're going
> to take falls, and take a bad fall sometime or other. If you don't
> think so, you are either or both of a) lucky b) a fool.
With you so far.
> Collar-bones heal. Scafoids (most times) heal. Broken arms, dislocated
> shoulders, skin over ankles, knees, hips, back, arms and hands all
> heal. Acquired brain injuries don't heal. Of course, people with ABIs
> can and do sometimes regain abilities. But it's not like waiting six
> weeks for the cast to come off then simply doing what you did before the
> fall - ask someone with an ABI.
Go on...
> A bicycle helmet (probably) didn't save my life, nor did it stop me from
> getting smashed and ripped up really badly, which generally happens when
> you hit the asphalt at 60 kph.
yep...
> But it did mean I can still walk, talk, ride a bicycle.
Cycle helmets don't protect very well against the sort of impacts that cause
brain damage. See Curnow[1] for a lengthier description of why not. I think
it's online somewhere, though you will certainly be able to get the abstract
from the journals website, or do a search on google (I've posted it here
before).
See also this letter [2]. Unfortunately the git who wrote it didn't provide
references :-(
It's not all bad though - ages ago someone was designing a helmet that would do
better[3] but they haven't turned up on the market yet.
> And same goes for all the many less major falls before and after - any a
> hit to my bare head, on pavement, car, trail or whatever, might have
> meant a concussion, a subdural haemorrhage, or worse. I haven't had to
> find this out, though. Because... well, you know why.
Yes, headbutting things is dangerous. But No, cycling is not dangerous. I know
that if you hit your head it could be serious, but the same applies to walking -
and walking appears to be more dangerous than cycling![4] Yes at some point we
are going to fall off our bikes, and sometimes we'll hit our heads and sometimes
it'll be serious and a lot of the time a helmet'll help. But it doesn't change
the fact that cycling is so safe that we needn't feel compelled to wear a
helmet. The extreme unliklihood of suffering brain damage or dying, coupled
with the relatively small protective benefit of the helmet in serious crashes
makes it more understandable when others do not wear a helmet.
> I could go on, but time to stop sermonising.
B'ah, at least you're setting two good examples for us u.r.c. reprobates :-)
[1] Curnow W.J., 'The efficacy of bicycle helmets against brain injury' Accident
Analysis and Prevention: 2003; 5.2.03 (You can probably get it via JSTOR)
[2] http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1054.html
[3] http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999418
[4] http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Expodata/Spreadsheets/D6536.xls
Dave Larrington
>> Remember, there were once people (backed up, no doubt, by the results
>> described in peer reviewed scholarly journals) who claimed it was
>> safer
>> to be thrown clear of a car in a smash than be strapped in by
>> seatbelts.
>
> I love statements like this - wonder if it's true. Prize for whoever
> can point out why this statement, if true, is still a load of balls
It was certainly the feeling among racing drivers in the 1950's and given
that the cars were usually made from cheese and tended to douse the driver
in burning fuel when they hit solid objects, it /may/ even have been
correct. However, there were a fair few who were thrown out and and were
still killed, as well as those who stayed aboard and survived.
The late Masten Gregory certainly believed it, though, since he jumped out
of sports-racing cars shortly before they hit the scenery at three-figure
speeds at least twice, and survived to die of a heart attack in 1985.
--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
Nick Maclaren
In article <bvqf31$8g3$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk>,
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <outloo...@microsoft.com> writes:
|> "John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:tq_Tb.41591$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
|>
|> > as it happens a young cattle drover was recently killed by a fall. It is
|> a
|> > tradition for these guys to wear Akubra hats while on a muster. Not
|> anymore
|> > say WorkCover (Govt Dept). The station owner was negligent for not making
|> > these guys wear helmets.
|>
|> So that makes the fatality rate - what? one per century?
Several a year, I would expect. He would have been on either a
horse or a motorbike.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
S. Anderson
wrote in message news:bvqtn3$h5a$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Remember, there were once people (backed up, no doubt, by the results
> > described in peer reviewed scholarly journals) who claimed it was safer
> > to be thrown clear of a car in a smash than be strapped in by
> > seatbelts.
>
> I love statements like this - wonder if it's true. Prize for whoever can
point
> out why this statement, if true, is still a load of balls
It's quite true. But perhaps not for the reason it's being touted. Back in
the days of Fangio, Nuvolari etc., the common logic was that it was better
to be thrown clear of The Wreck rather than risk being trapped in the car
and crushed in a rollover, or worse, burned to death. Those early race cars
were death traps, and not just because they didn't have seatbelts! At that
time, race car driver fatalities ran at about 50% of the drivers. And of
course, there is the macho factor. It wasn't until the wee Scot, Jackie
Stewart, came along tht driver safety became a priority. After his somewhat
brief and highly successful career, driver fatality rates came down pretty
quickly, thanks to technology as well no doubt. He campaigned hard for
safety improvements. Today, I'm sure no driver would think of racing
without a full 5-point harness and helmet and fire suit, but there was a
time when they raced at 180mph in an open-cockpit with a polo shirt and
khakis on. Doesn't make it right, but it was the common logic of the day..
Cheers,
Scott..
Tom Kunich
with such clarity. And since I know you ain't me (And since I also don't
believe that I could state the case so eloquently even then) I can guess who
you am.
Tom
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <outloo...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:bvqp0r$hil$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk...
Tom Kunich
news:2L7Ub.7865$bp1.4...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> It wasn't until the wee Scot, Jackie
> Stewart, came along tht driver safety became a priority. After his
somewhat
> brief and highly successful career, driver fatality rates came down pretty
> quickly, thanks to technology as well no doubt. He campaigned hard for
> safety improvements. Today, I'm sure no driver would think of racing
> without a full 5-point harness and helmet and fire suit, but there was a
> time when they raced at 180mph in an open-cockpit with a polo shirt and
> khakis on. Doesn't make it right, but it was the common logic of the
day..
Let's be sure to note that I for one have been at the scene of several of
what looked to be rather minor car racing accidents in which the
occupant/driver died despite seat belts, helmets and whatever else.
Just zis Guy, you know?
wrote:
>I can guess who you am.
Heh! I can do better than that - I *know* who I am :-)
To be fair, I've been practicing - some twonk wants to make it a
criminal offence to allow a child to ride a tricycle in a public park
without a polystyrene foam deflector beanie; some of us are Less Than
Enthused by the prospect.
<url:http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/Web/public.nsf/Documents/Martlew_Bill>
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
John Doe
If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
What value are you placing on looking cool?
In this country it is also law to wear hard hats in mining operations and in
any industrial areas. Not to mention steel capped boots and the like. I
have to wear these things in sometimes what most would think was a
rediculous place but I dont mind because it saves lives and I work a lot in
industrial areas. Workers who have long hair are required to wear nets when
using lathes or other machinery where it could get caught.
Recently a young apprentice (on his first day) was killed falling off the
roof of a small building (only from 1st floor) and was killed. The employer
was charged because the worker was not tied to the roof. That is also law.
It is compulsory in this country for employers to look after their workers.
That is a fact and that is what I was saying. It is a work situation.
Nothing to do with what you do on the weekend.
BTW not wearing a bicycle helmet is an offence work or not. The fine is
measly and not really policed. (Well obvious in my city anyway).
John Doe
"Nick Maclaren" <nm...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bvr1mv$r6e$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
True, Motorbikes are common for mustering.
Nick Maclaren
John Doe <pdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
>What value are you placing on looking cool?
And if the cost of saving that one life is two people who died because
they were wearing helmets (and wouldn't have done if they weren't),
then is it still a good idea to make them mandatory?
The point is that we really don't know whether they increase or reduce
injury, and the evidence points in both directions. Why do you claim
Divine Enlightenment to know what the truth is?
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Jeff
news:HsudnfUDxcG...@comcast.com...
Which part of Canada has a mandatory foam hat law? The Manitoba Soviet
Socialist Republic (MSSR) has no such law. Winnipeg, for years the only
political jurisdiction in North America with an elected communist official,
has no such law.
Just zis Guy, you know?
wrote:
>If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
>What value are you placing on looking cool?
Stop driving NOW! Car drivers kill tens of thousands every year in
the US ALONE! If even one life can be saved (and actually it'll bve
tens of thousands) surely it's worth it.
TopCounsel
>the US ALONE! If even one life can be saved (and actually it'll bve
>tens of thousands) surely it's worth it.
LOL. If not wearing a bike helmet should be an infraction or misdemeanor, then
overeating or playing pro hockey should be a felony!
Tom Keats
"Jeff" <frostb...@yahooSANSSPAM.com> writes:
> "Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:HsudnfUDxcG...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote
>>
>> <snip>
>> >Did you see last year's big helmet
>> > war? Probably a good two thousand messages among three or four
>> > threads, and I doubt that there was a single person who was
>> > influenced in any way.
>>
>> I was ... I decided that when I go visit my cousin in the Peoples Republic
>> of Canadia this summer to cover my (mandatory) magic foam hat with tin
> foil
>
> Which part of Canada has a mandatory foam hat law?
In British Columbia (the birthplace of MHLs) helmets are
mandatory for all ages, although turban-wearing Sikhs may
be exempt. Other provinces and regions across the country
vary for age groups, and for mandatoriness at all.
I've got an article around here somewhere, that lists
which areas have MHLs; in fact I was just looking at it a
couple of days ago. I'll post what it says a little later,
if I can find it.
cheers,
Tom
--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
Q.
> for me it was imsais & apple2's .. novation applecats, catfur, ascii
express,
> blue boxing bell south, CP/M, g-files, gbbs, fidonet, LoD, pdp11s, RSTS/E,
> VMS, unix, the 414 gang and busts by the secret service.
>
> ahhhhh, youth!
And I'd like to say a big HELLO to the poor slob over at the domestic
surveillance section in the National Security Agency who has to read this
because the filtering software was triggered by all the keywords in these
posts (c:
Just to make sure that red flag pops up ...
Operation Sundevil, Kevin Mitnick, Global Hell, Firewalls, Secure Internet
Connections, ISS, Passwords, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, CIA,
S/Key, SSL, FBI, USSS, Defcon, White House, Joe Engressia, John Draper,
Bubba Clinton, Flashbangs, Phiber Optik, Rain.Forest.Puppy., Phrack, 2600,
NRA, Spetznaz, nitrate, sniper, Keyhole, ninja, RIAA, Elvis, Fetish, NORAD,
wet work, illuminati, Roswell, freedom, nail bomb, rail gun, sex, 7.62 x 39,
Nigeria, bullion, utopia, Bill Gates, clone, NCC-1701, MIT
Ya' gotta love it!
C.Q.C.
David Reuteler
: And I'd like to say a big HELLO to the poor slob over at the domestic
: surveillance section in the National Security Agency who has to read this
: because the filtering software was triggered by all the keywords in these
: posts (c:
bah. they already know.
: Just to make sure that red flag pops up ...
:
: Operation Sundevil, Kevin Mitnick, Global Hell, Firewalls, Secure Internet
: Connections, ISS, Passwords, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, CIA,
: S/Key, SSL, FBI, USSS, Defcon, White House, Joe Engressia, John Draper,
: Bubba Clinton, Flashbangs, Phiber Optik, Rain.Forest.Puppy., Phrack, 2600,
: NRA, Spetznaz, nitrate, sniper, Keyhole, ninja, RIAA, Elvis, Fetish, NORAD,
: wet work, illuminati, Roswell, freedom, nail bomb, rail gun, sex, 7.62 x 39,
: Nigeria, bullion, utopia, Bill Gates, clone, NCC-1701, MIT
:
: Ya' gotta love it!
31337 d00d ..
you forgot to mention the anarchist's cookbook, tho nitrate rates.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
M. Atta
hehehehe
as Vogels jun is
"John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tq_Tb.41591$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
Dave Kahn
<outloo...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:26:00 GMT, "John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
>>What value are you placing on looking cool?
>
>Stop driving NOW! Car drivers kill tens of thousands every year in
>the US ALONE! If even one life can be saved (and actually it'll bve
>tens of thousands) surely it's worth it.
Similarly people sometimes drown when they go swimming - even good
experienced swimmers. Those lives could be saved if every swimmer wore
water wings. Inconvenient? Yes. But surely worth it if just one life
is saved.
--
Dave...
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live.
Mark Twain
S. Anderson
> Operation Sundevil, Kevin Mitnick, Global Hell, Firewalls, Secure Internet
> Connections, ISS, Passwords, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, CIA,
> S/Key, SSL, FBI, USSS, Defcon, White House, Joe Engressia, John Draper,
> Bubba Clinton, Flashbangs, Phiber Optik, Rain.Forest.Puppy., Phrack, 2600,
> NRA, Spetznaz, nitrate, sniper, Keyhole, ninja, RIAA, Elvis, Fetish,
NORAD,
> wet work, illuminati, Roswell, freedom, nail bomb, rail gun, sex, 7.62 x
39,
> Nigeria, bullion, utopia, Bill Gates, clone, NCC-1701, MIT
Ya know, I've been sending e-mail to my brother overseas with just such
content for about 2 years now, every week or so, just to see what happens.
Nothing to report yet...wait..what's that black car doing outside my
house..hmmm.....
Cheers,
Scott..
Tom Keats
"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> writes:
> Operation Sundevil, Kevin Mitnick, Global Hell, Firewalls, Secure Internet
> Connections, ISS, Passwords, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, CIA,
> S/Key, SSL, FBI, USSS, Defcon, White House, Joe Engressia, John Draper,
> Bubba Clinton, Flashbangs, Phiber Optik, Rain.Forest.Puppy., Phrack, 2600,
> NRA, Spetznaz, nitrate, sniper, Keyhole, ninja, RIAA, Elvis, Fetish, NORAD,
> wet work, illuminati, Roswell, freedom, nail bomb, rail gun, sex, 7.62 x 39,
> Nigeria, bullion, utopia, Bill Gates, clone, NCC-1701, MIT
Hey, lemme try:
<M-x spook>
class struggle KGB Noriega Uzi Nazi strategic Cocaine explosion
supercomputer cryptographic munitions terrorist cracking Delta Force
Qaddafi
----------------
Hmm, looks pretty lame. Another go:
<M-x spook>
colonel Khaddafi radar strategic CIA genetic Legion of Doom Marxist
Qaddafi SDI ammunition domestic disruption Noriega NORAD AK-47
----------------
Well, I've got an older version of emacs.
I wonder what ol' Noriega's up to these days.
cheers, & shadow government black budget FSB conspiracy fissionable,
S. Anderson
news:bvqp0r$hil$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk...
> Amazingly, when the UK
> introduced sealt belt legislation - driver fatalities stayed the same!
But
> there was a substantial rise in pedestrian, cyclist and rear-seat
passenger
> fatalities.
Can you cite the data for this declaration? I'd be interested to see this.
Cheers,
Scott..
Zebee Johnstone
Dave Kahn <dkah...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Similarly people sometimes drown when they go swimming - even good
> experienced swimmers. Those lives could be saved if every swimmer wore
> water wings. Inconvenient? Yes. But surely worth it if just one life
> is saved.
I presume all those who advocate helmets to save just one life wear them
when driving cars and insist all passengers wear them?
Just one life and all that.
Zebee
--
Zebee Johnstone (ze...@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"
S. Anderson
news:uIdUb.11974$F23....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Let's be sure to note that I for one have been at the scene of several of
> what looked to be rather minor car racing accidents in which the
> occupant/driver died despite seat belts, helmets and whatever else.
>
True enough, but the fatality rate in auto racing has come down
significantly since the widespread acceptance of mandatory safety equipment
regulations. That fact is indisputable. I'm not arguing that mandatory
anything is correct..personally, I think nanny laws suck. If you're over
18, you can do anything you want to yourself as far as I'm concerned.
Helmetless since birth,
Scott..
David Reuteler
: <M-x spook>
egads, i forgot how inspired (bloated?) emacs can be. lest anyone think he's
joking .. he's not.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Chris Neary
>Only a few guys in the world of Usenet could state the case against helmets
>with such clarity.
What's weird about this thread is that every time Mr. K and I and ridden
together, he's been wearing a helmet. I'll put the question out there:
Tom, is your default riding mode "Helmet" or "No Helmet"?
Chris Neary
diabl...@comcast.net
"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
Tom Keats
David Reuteler <reut...@visi.com> writes:
> Tom Keats <tomk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: <M-x spook>
>
> egads, i forgot how inspired (bloated?) emacs can be. lest anyone think he's
> joking .. he's not.
It does everything except peel your vegetables ;-)
I often use emacs as a shell to work in. It's especially convenient
for doing big make's and running gdb a la IDE. But it's actually
been a long time since I've written a serious line of code
(thank goodness).
cheers,
frkrygow
> If you ride a bicycle for long enough, well, statistically, you're going
> to take falls, and take a bad fall sometime or other. If you don't
> think so, you are either or both of a) lucky b) a fool.
I guess skill and appropriate caution aren't part of your equation, eh?
If so, then: Damn. My experiences of the past four decades must be
imaginary.
> A bicycle helmet (probably) didn't save my life, nor did it stop me from
> getting smashed and ripped up really badly, which generally happens when
> you hit the asphalt at 60 kph. But it did mean I can still walk, talk,
> ride a bicycle.
It also meant you've turned into a tiresome, sermonizing meddler. That
seems to be a serious side effect of crashing while wearing a helmet.
Look, if you feel you can't cycle without styrofoam, that's your choice.
But there's no need to adopt a "wiser than thou" attitude about it,
and there's certainly no need to be giving sermons to others.
The bulk of available data says that your judgement is in error - that
the funny hats don't do significant good. Anyone who lectures others
without studying the data shouldn't be calling _others_ fools!
Oh, and please stop spreading the false idea that ordinary cycling is
unusually dangerous. People like you do cycling much more harm than good.
--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------
For a secure high performance FTP using SSL/TLS encryption
upgrade to SurgeFTP
---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgeftp.htm ----
Benjamin Lewis
> In article <4021ac46$0$41287$a186...@newsreader.visi.com>,
> David Reuteler <reut...@visi.com> writes:
>> Tom Keats <tomk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> <M-x spook>
>>
>> egads, i forgot how inspired (bloated?) emacs can be. lest anyone think
>> he's joking .. he's not.
>
> It does everything except peel your vegetables ;-)
And that's just until someone makes a carrot peeler with a serial port.
It can brew you a cup of coffee, provided you have a RFC2324-compliant
coffee maker:
http://www.chez.com/emarsden/downloads/coffee.el
--
Benjamin Lewis
On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague:
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli
frkrygow
> If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
:-) The last time I heard someone seriously use that line, it was a
semi-senile old lady with a missionary complex. Since she was clearly
an old fool, I was kind to her. I said nothing.
Since I know nothing about _your_ age, let me ask: Why does that logic
apply only the less-than-1% of head injury fatalities that are cyclists?
Or do you apply it equally to the 50% that are motorists, as well as
to the other 49% that have nothing to do with cycling?
John Doe
Hmm Think I was saying how it is in this country not what I believe is the
correct approach. Was not expressing an opinion due to the form of debate
it takes on with such learned folk as yourself. You end up with a tis snot
tis snow type of school argument that I am not interested in. I do not have
the research behind me to make such an informed decision so I am at the
mercy of people I have intrusted with such. This is one of those debates
that cannot be won with anecdotal guessing.
Once again. I do not have an opinion apart from the fact that I have to
trust the opinions of people that are given the job of deciding these things
based on their careful study. Rightly or wrongly it is the best I can hope
for. However I will not trust the John Does (like myself) on Usenet to make
up my mind. I do not have the time to research this to the full extent that
it requires for me to make my own personal decision as I already have a job
that consumes most of my time and my family the other.
This debate comes up every few months and ends up being long heated and full
of half truths till it dies a natural death of boredom.
regards
Peter
Tom Keats
"Jeff" <frostb...@yahooSANSSPAM.com> writes:
> Which part of Canada has a mandatory foam hat law?
Ontario's MHL appears to be the oldest in the country.
(Info derived from August/September 2002 issue of Vancouver
local alt-trans magazine, 'Momentum')
Province/Territory: British Columbia
age group: all
fine: $100
Province/Territory: Alberta
age group: up to 17
fine: $57
Province/Territory: Saskatchewan
No provincial law
Municipal bylaw in Yorkton
Province/Territory: Manitoba
age group: up to 5?
conflicting info as to whether or not
legislation exists
Province/Territory: Ontario
age group: up to 17
fine: $75
Province/Territory: Quebec
No provincial law
bylaws in Montreal burroughs of Cote St-Luc and Westmount
Province/Territory: Prince Edward Island
No provincial law
Province/Territory: New Brunswick
age group: all
fine: $21
Province/Territory: Nova Scotia
age group: all
fine: $25
Province/Territory: Newfoundland/Labrador
age group: no provincial law
- bylaws in Mount Pearl and St John's for ages up to 12
- bylaw in Holyrood for all ages
Province/Territory: Yukon Territory
- no territorial helmet law
Province/Territory: North West Territories
- no territorial helmet law
- bylaw in Inuvik (all ages)
- possible bylaw in Yellowknife
Province/Territory: Nunavut
- no territorial helmet law
David Reuteler
: It can brew you a cup of coffee, provided you have a RFC2324-compliant
: coffee maker:
:
: http://www.chez.com/emarsden/downloads/coffee.el
oh, man. i'm a vi boy owing mainly to the fact that i started out as a
sysadmin but i've always had a morbid fascination with bloated, errr,
feature-rich software and once gave emacs a whirl ... i think i lasted
a few months before i went back to vi & that because i'd drifted towards
using emacs in vi emulation mode (which wasn't half bad, actually).
how in the name of god did emacs ever run on a sun 3/50 in under 4MB?
maybe i'll name my expensive, somewhat heavy, quite pretty (to me, anyway)
very functional jack of all trades cyclocross/touring bike "emacs" in that
vein.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Benjamin Lewis
> In article <mFeUb.25533$g07....@news1.mts.net>,
> "Jeff" <frostb...@yahooSANSSPAM.com> writes:
>
>> Which part of Canada has a mandatory foam hat law?
>
> Ontario's MHL appears to be the oldest in the country.
>
> Province/Territory: British Columbia
> age group: all
> fine: $100
... but ours is the nastiest!
Benjamin Lewis
> Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
>> It can brew you a cup of coffee, provided you have a RFC2324-compliant
>> coffee maker:
>>
>> http://www.chez.com/emarsden/downloads/coffee.el
>
> oh, man. i'm a vi boy owing mainly to the fact that i started out as a
> sysadmin but i've always had a morbid fascination with bloated, errr,
> feature-rich software and once gave emacs a whirl ... i think i lasted
> a few months before i went back to vi & that because i'd drifted towards
> using emacs in vi emulation mode (which wasn't half bad, actually).
To be fair, you don't have to load libraries like "coffee.el" if you don't
want to (and if you *do* want to, you have to download it first, unlike
things like Tetris and the psychiatrist that are installed by default...).
I also have heard that vi variants like gvim are getting to be as big these
days.
Nothin' against vi (but PICO sucks rocks),
Q.
<snip>
> 31337 d00d ..
>
> you forgot to mention the anarchist's cookbook, tho nitrate rates.
That book isn't all it's cracked up to be ... actually, it's about as lame
as "The Happy Hacker". Besides, the good ol' US Army publications are way
better. I would suggest my personal favorite "SILENCERS: Principals and
Evaluations", Report R-1896, AMCMS Code 5542.12.46801.02. For those
interested, the "keywords" taken from the Document Control Data R&D sheet
are: Silencers, Silenced Weapons, Small Arms Noise, Pressure-Time Sound
Records, Scope Traces, Noise Sources, Sound Pressure Levels, Noise
Attenuation. (I had no idea they used keywords in 1968.)
For 2 points ... what famous phreak legally changed his name to
"Joybubbles"?
3y3 0\/\/nz u! (Gosh, I love derailing a troll thread!)
C.Q.C.
Tom Kunich
"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message
news:4021...@news.cc.ysu.edu...
Tom Kunich
I would agree with you save the fact that they obvoiusly didn't study the
available data and strangely enough chose bicyclists as their targets when
they could have gotten a four fold improvement (if they believe helmets
work) by making them mandatory for those walking near traffic.
Government by the Nanny and for the Nanny isn't going to work for anyone but
Nanny.
Q.
> > If you ride a bicycle for long enough, well, statistically, you're going
> > to take falls, and take a bad fall sometime or other. If you don't
> > think so, you are either or both of a) lucky b) a fool.
>
>
<snip>
> > A bicycle helmet (probably) didn't save my life, nor did it stop me from
> > getting smashed and ripped up really badly, which generally happens when
> > you hit the asphalt at 60 kph. But it did mean I can still walk, talk,
> > ride a bicycle.
>
Given the fact that people have been bashing their heads for tens of
thousands of years, in evolutionary terms, wouldn't that be more like "Skull
Version 26.9" ?
C.Q.C.
David Reuteler
: "David Reuteler" <reut...@visi.com> wrote
: <snip>
:> 31337 d00d ..
:>
:> you forgot to mention the anarchist's cookbook, tho nitrate rates.
:
: That book isn't all it's cracked up to be ...
well, no kidding. even as a 13 year old the bit on white marijuana plants
growing in the new york subway system gave it away. the book was completely
ubiquitous during the era, tho. and the yippie guide to destroying your
high-school ..
http://free.freespeech.org/yippie/writings/yippies/school.htm
: For 2 points ... what famous phreak legally changed his name to
: "Joybubbles"?
joe engressia! that's easy .. at some point he lived in minneapolis which
is where i usually live. he, uhhh, pulled what i would call a jonathan
richman* and kind of got into children's songs for a while.
* i do like "i'm a little dinosaur" an awful lot.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Tom Keats
Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>
>> In article <mFeUb.25533$g07....@news1.mts.net>,
>> "Jeff" <frostb...@yahooSANSSPAM.com> writes:
>>
>>> Which part of Canada has a mandatory foam hat law?
>>
>> Ontario's MHL appears to be the oldest in the country.
>>
>> Province/Territory: British Columbia
>> age group: all
>> fine: $100
>
> ... but ours is the nastiest!
That $100 fine /is/ pretty draconian. I've never seen any
actual enforcement (yet). My next door neighbour tells me
he got an officious verbal warning from the cops once, though.
Actually, I don't mind too much having to wear the bucket.
It's something to stick my glasses & gloves in when I
go to the bank.
Tom Keats
Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> I also have heard that vi variants like gvim are getting to be as big these
> days.
vi's a pretty darn good, powerful editor too. I really don't
understand these vi vs emacs "tastes great; less filling"
religious wars. They're both good.
> Nothin' against vi (but PICO sucks rocks),
Maybe as pico is to vi, epsilon is to emacs. epsilon is an
horrid perversion. ISTR Borland including it in their IDE suite.
DRS
hKgUb.8739$bp1.4...@news20.bellglobal.com
The laws of physics are the same in the UK as they are here and I simply
don't believe a word of it.
BTW, when Victoria first introduced compulsory seatbelt usage not only did
the number of fatalities drop significantly but the number of spinal
injuries dropped 75% in the first year.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
DRS
[...]
> True enough, but the fatality rate in auto racing has come down
> significantly since the widespread acceptance of mandatory safety
> equipment regulations. That fact is indisputable. I'm not arguing
> that mandatory anything is correct..personally, I think nanny laws
> suck. If you're over 18, you can do anything you want to yourself as
> far as I'm concerned.
If you lived alone on an island you could get away with that sort of
naivette but you don't. What you do impacts on the rest of us in a variety
of ways and there's no getting around that fact. You live in a community
and you should think communally.
Benjamin Lewis
> That $100 fine /is/ pretty draconian. I've never seen any
> actual enforcement (yet). My next door neighbour tells me
> he got an officious verbal warning from the cops once, though.
>
> Actually, I don't mind too much having to wear the bucket.
> It's something to stick my glasses & gloves in when I
> go to the bank.
I usually don't mind wearing it, but I do mind *having* to wear it.
Q.
<snip>
> >> Province/Territory: British Columbia
> >> age group: all
> >> fine: $100
> >
> > ... but ours is the nastiest!
>
> That $100 fine /is/ pretty draconian. I've never seen any
> actual enforcement (yet). My next door neighbour tells me
> he got an officious verbal warning from the cops once, though.
"I do have to fine you. That will be a thousand dollars Canadian, or 10
American dollars if you prefer."
As much as I dislike Michael Moore I think Canadian Bacon is a great movie
... well, maybe not great but it has it's moments.
"Think of your children pledging allegiance to the maple leaf. Mayonnaise on
everything. Winter 11 months of the year. Anne Murray - all day, every day."
C.Q.C.
Benjamin Lewis
> In article <yy7o8yji...@css.css.sfu.ca>,
> Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
>
>> I also have heard that vi variants like gvim are getting to be as big
>> these days.
>
> vi's a pretty darn good, powerful editor too. I really don't
> understand these vi vs emacs "tastes great; less filling"
> religious wars. They're both good.
I use vi occasionally for very simple changes when I don't have a gnuserver
running, since my init file is pretty crufty and emacs takes a while to
load. I haven't used vi enough to have any strong feelings about it one
way or another (although I suspect most of the people in the religious wars
haven't used the "rival" editor much either.)
>> Nothin' against vi (but PICO sucks rocks),
>
> Maybe as pico is to vi, epsilon is to emacs. epsilon is an
> horrid perversion. ISTR Borland including it in their IDE suite.
As far as I know, PICO has no more in common with vi than it does with
emacs. I used it for a while when I was still using pine, where it is the
default editor.
JohnB
>
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:26:00 GMT, "John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
> >What value are you placing on looking cool?
>
> the US ALONE! If even one life can be saved (and actually it'll bve
> tens of thousands) surely it's worth it.
Extreme it may seem, but this *is* one reason why i do not drive.
I do not wish to be part of that culture that kills and injures so many.
If you drive you contribute towards the problems that motoring inflicts
on society.
John B
Nick Maclaren
In article <ZQjUb.42897$Wa....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com> writes:
|>
|> Hmm Think I was saying how it is in this country not what I believe is the
|> correct approach. Was not expressing an opinion due to the form of debate
|> it takes on with such learned folk as yourself. You end up with a tis snot
|> tis snow type of school argument that I am not interested in. I do not have
|> the research behind me to make such an informed decision so I am at the
|> mercy of people I have intrusted with such. This is one of those debates
|> that cannot be won with anecdotal guessing.
|>
|> Once again. I do not have an opinion apart from the fact that I have to
|> trust the opinions of people that are given the job of deciding these things
|> based on their careful study. Rightly or wrongly it is the best I can hope
|> for. However I will not trust the John Does (like myself) on Usenet to make
|> up my mind. I do not have the time to research this to the full extent that
|> it requires for me to make my own personal decision as I already have a job
|> that consumes most of my time and my family the other.
|>
|> This debate comes up every few months and ends up being long heated and full
|> of half truths till it dies a natural death of boredom.
Correct. But let me introduce myself. While I am very rusty, I am
a statistician by training and was once fairly good. Again, while
I haven't looked at ALL of the evidence, I did spend some time looking
at many of the references quoted by the pro-helmet brigade, and found
that all except a couple were complete nonsense. Their data may have
been correct, but the analysis was so obviously incorrect that their
conclusions were often the OPPOSITE of what should have been derived
from the data. The couple that weren't complete nonsense were
inconclusive, and counterbalanced by equivalent research that
indicated that bicycle helmets increased the risk of brain damage.
There MAY be some new data, but I doubt it. The executive summary
is this:
Helmets almost certainly reduce trivial head injuries in all
classes of cyclist - i.e. mere bruises, cuts and so on. Yes,
some of the cuts may have needed hospital treatment, but they
are STILL trivial.
Helmets almost certainly make a negligible difference to the
incidence of brain damage following an accident for normal
cyclists, and the data are not good enough to tell whether the
difference is positive or negative.
Helmets probably help with extreme cycling - crashes at speeds
above 30 MPH, people who ride over broken rock and so on - the
evidence is very scanty and hence inconclusive, but is at least
fairly consistent.
Mandatory and even semi-mandatory helmet wearing reduces the
number of normal cyclists significantly, especially those that
are using cycling as a form of transport rather than recreation.
And 'significantly' is of the order of tens of percent.
The rest is politics, dogma and so on.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Tom Keats
Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> As far as I know, PICO has no more in common with vi than it does with
> emacs. I used it for a while when I was still using pine, where it is the
> default editor.
Oh yeah, pine. Now I remember. I know your pain.
I dunno if there are still any IMAP servers these days.
Hugh Mahon's ee is a cute little editor.
Back in the DOS days, I rather liked the editor that came
with the LapLink software. Speaking of days of yore,
DOS 5's DOSShell had this great little read-only file viewer
that not many people knew about. Options to display binary
files in literal ascii or hex. Sometimes one could discern
the secret install key in certain software pkgs with it.
It was dropped from DOS 6 for some reason.
Graeme
news:bvstdb$9i8$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz:
> If you're over 18, you can do anything you want to yourself as
>> far as I'm concerned.
>
> If you lived alone on an island you could get away with that sort of
> naivette but you don't. What you do impacts on the rest of us in a
> variety of ways and there's no getting around that fact. You live in
> a community and you should think communally.
Personally, I'd change that to "You can do anything you want to yourself
provided that no material harm comes to anyone else without their
consent."
"Material harm" so the kind of people who get offended easily, e.g. when I
wear my hideously bright cycling gear into a shop, can lump it. The
"without consent" is to cater for the masochists out there, e.g. people who
ride fixies :-)
Graeme
Tom Keats
JohnB <nos...@here.com> writes:
> Extreme it may seem, but this *is* one reason why i do not drive.
> I do not wish to be part of that culture that kills and injures so many.
>
> If you drive you contribute towards the problems that motoring inflicts
> on society.
You've summed up my feelings on the matter, to a tee.
You are not alone.
Marty
> >
> Let's be sure to note that I for one have been at the scene of several of
> what looked to be rather minor car racing accidents in which the
> occupant/driver died despite seat belts, helmets and whatever else.
Just as well they weren't serious accidents.
Marty
Just zis Guy, you know?
> > Amazingly, when the UK
> > introduced sealt belt legislation - driver fatalities stayed the same!
> > But
> > there was a substantial rise in pedestrian, cyclist and rear-seat
> > passenger fatalities.
> Can you cite the data for this declaration? I'd be interested to see
this.
The data came from RAGB, but if you want the full picture I recomend chapter
4 of Death on the Streets by Bob Davis, which goes into some detail. It
also includes the interesting story of the Isles Report, prepared by the
DoT, which showed that mandatory belt laws had no significant effect in any
European country. It was buried in the run-up to legislation.
--
Guy
===
WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
Just zis Guy, you know?
news:bvst9s$9he$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> The laws of physics are the same in the UK as they are here and I simply
> don't believe a word of it.
Yes, always better to go with blind faith than facts.
Try Googling for "risk compensation" some time. Read the study of German
taxi drivers and ABS brakes, it's very revealing. There's also a rising
rate of front passenger deaths in the UK at present, linked with the
increased use of cars fitted with drivers' airbags by young male drivers.
Of course, nobody believes in risk compensation. That's why it happens.
Just zis Guy, you know?
news:l8OdnaAjp4e...@comcast.com...
> Given the fact that people have been bashing their heads for tens of
> thousands of years, in evolutionary terms, wouldn't that be more like
"Skull
> Version 26.9" ?
Heh! You may have a point. But doesn't evolution count as a field
revision?
Just zis Guy, you know?
news:Xns9486AD94D175Fgr...@203.2.194.51...
> "without consent" is to cater for the masochists out there, e.g. people
who
> ride fixies :-)
Surely nobody would do that? They'd blow their knees...
Just zis Guy, you know?
> Helmets almost certainly reduce trivial head injuries in all
> classes of cyclist - i.e. mere bruises, cuts and so on. Yes,
> some of the cuts may have needed hospital treatment, but they
> are STILL trivial.
>
> Helmets almost certainly make a negligible difference to the
> incidence of brain damage following an accident for normal
> cyclists, and the data are not good enough to tell whether the
> difference is positive or negative.
>
> Helmets probably help with extreme cycling - crashes at speeds
> above 30 MPH, people who ride over broken rock and so on - the
> evidence is very scanty and hence inconclusive, but is at least
> fairly consistent.
>
> Mandatory and even semi-mandatory helmet wearing reduces the
> number of normal cyclists significantly, especially those that
> are using cycling as a form of transport rather than recreation.
> And 'significantly' is of the order of tens of percent.
>
> The rest is politics, dogma and so on.
On the face of it it's hard to add anything to that, other than that I
believe the evidence indicates that cyclists wearing helmets have a greater
propensity to risk-taking (risk compensation).
The helmet issue also affects the perception of the risk of cycling by
drivers, such that they are likely to attribute the death of a cyclist
wrongly as the consequence of cycling being a dangerous activity, when the
reality is that it's driving that's dangerous. What a horrible sentence. I
think you know what I mean, though.
Nick Maclaren
In article <bvt3m6$af0$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>,
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <outloo...@microsoft.com> writes:
|>
|> On the face of it it's hard to add anything to that, other than that I
|> believe the evidence indicates that cyclists wearing helmets have a greater
|> propensity to risk-taking (risk compensation).
Yes, you are right I should have mentioned that. The evidence isn't
good enough to either be certain that it occurs (though it seems
likely) or whether helmet wearing increases the risks people take.
It could equally well just be a selection effect. In any case, any
significant effect almost certainly applies to the 'extreme' cyclists
only, and the effect is negligible for normal cyclists.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>for me it was imsais & apple2's .. novation applecats, catfur, ascii express,
>blue boxing bell south, CP/M, g-files, gbbs, fidonet, LoD, pdp11s, RSTS/E,
>VMS, unix, the 414 gang and busts by the secret service.
I'm sorry, did you say LoD? As in, Land of Devastation? Boy do I
miss playing that game (and having enough time to play it a lot).
I spent vast tracts of time enjoying that game, mastering it. I met
a good friend through it. We played for months, and suddenly, he
went with his parents on vacation, and I took control of the game,
and destroyed his character, taking all his stuff. That was great.
Ah, the strolls down memory lane. He was a little pissed off, tho.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
>3y3 0\/\/nz u!
You guys don't know anything. It's d00dt, and not 'u' but 'j00'.
>(Gosh, I love derailing a troll thread!)
We should do it more often.
And now, harkening back to my bbs days, my old signature, as The
Holy Cow (fixed width font, please):
___ _
-- \ \-\ \_--
Or, facing the other direction:
___ _
-- / /-//_--
My fingers can still put that one out quickly!
-- _
Rick "|< - R /-\ |) 31337 d00dt () \/\/ |\| /_ j00" Onanian
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Hey, lemme try:
><M-x spook>
Say, is this a new sport? Maybe we ought to start rec.m-x.spook...
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>how in the name of god did emacs ever run on a sun 3/50 in under 4MB?
I remember almost shitting myself when I logged into a BBS and read
that the sysop had upgraded to 20mb RAM so everybody could run
emacs. 20mb? That was nuts! Who could need 20mb, and WTF was emacs,
I wondered.
To this day, I still can't understand why anybody would need 20mb
for a text editor, with the exception of running it as part of an
IDE.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Hugh Mahon's ee is a cute little editor.
I like e3 better:
:In Linux the e3 uncompressed executable's size is at 12000 byte
: e3 is quite independent of libc
While you can, of course, change the keymaps and interface on it
with config files, IIRC, it's default is Wordstar; that's very
comfortable for me. I use joe in Wordstar mode when it's around.
I don't mind vi, but I do like e3 and joe better.
>DOS 5's DOSShell had this great little read-only file viewer
>that not many people knew about. Options to display binary
>files in literal ascii or hex. Sometimes one could discern
>the secret install key in certain software pkgs with it.
I used that!
>It was dropped from DOS 6 for some reason.
Dosshell was great. I think they dropped it because it could be used
to make DOS too friendly, so people wouldn't want windows. Dosshell
was like a poor-man's Windows; it used a mouse, had something like a
desktop where you could put icons (I think I remember this, anyway,
but I can't remember how one was to make it exist), had file
associations (again, IIRC), and most importantly, task switching!
I set up many people with dosshell environments that enabled them to
use a computer that they otherwise couldn't have mastered.
How about 4dos? It was like having bash for people who never heard
of unix...
I can still hear that pile of full height 5.25" 327mb SCSI drives,
outside the case, a stray power supply with enough splitters to run
them, a long internal scsi ribbon cable running out the back of the
case to them, loud, noisy, heating up my room...I got them at a
computer show; they were in an external RAID case, but one was
broken, and the whole thing did not function as a unit, so it was
nearly free.
All hooked up, IIRC, to a 286. With RAM in IC form, stuck in IC
sockets the way a 486 would have cache (for that matter, probably
about as much RAM as a 486 would have cache...).
I can't imagine how I filled those drives. I had a cd-rom, and
installed Slackware on one, but didn't learn how to use it till a
couple years later.
--
Rick Onanian
David Hansen
<scott.a...@zsympaticoz.ca> wrote this:-
>> Amazingly, when the UK
>> introduced sealt belt legislation - driver fatalities stayed the same!
>> But there was a substantial rise in pedestrian, cyclist and rear-seat
>> passenger fatalities.
>
>Can you cite the data for this declaration? I'd be interested to see this.
It was in the Durbin/Harvey Report. As they were professor's of
statistics then one may assume that their methods are not open to
too much criticism.
If you want to see the raw data get hold of the report and follow
the references.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
David Reuteler
: vi's a pretty darn good, powerful editor too. I really don't
: understand these vi vs emacs "tastes great; less filling"
: religious wars. They're both good.
tom needs a trip in the way-back machine. to a time before micro$oft 0wned
u .. to the late 80s and early 90s.
well, basically .. there wasn't microsoft to kick around. so battles were
picked with .. umm, more creativity (desperation). well, it's ironic that
the complaint was bloated size because in retrospect .. well, the fact is it
did run on a 4MB Sun 3/50 and run pretty well.
it was probably mostly a sysadmin vs developer thing. admins couldn't use
emacs 'cause in the day it was rarely on new installs or production machines
and developers liked it 'cause it was made for them and almost an IDE and had
syntax highlighting, cvs stuff, etc and so the userbase ended up being pretty
clearly drawn on those lines. those two groups were destined to fight about
something, anything (i say this having been on both sides).
i've never known anyone to actually get that crazed about this particuliar
"debate" tho. well, not like how much the new editors ones suck.
nano. dear god. a pico clone! 3rd generation syndrome.
still, tho, linux's largest contribution to UNIX has been coloured ls.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
David Reuteler
: I'm sorry, did you say LoD? As in, Land of Devastation? Boy do I
: miss playing that game (and having enough time to play it a lot).
no, as in Legion of Doom. a late 80s, early 90s hacking group.
http://www.tech-devil.co.uk/extras/lod/
they're also known for a pretty swank tshirt they put out for the 1991 hohocon
conference that read (among other things) "Internet World Tour" with a list
of a corporate and gov't domains. on the front it had a globe with a sword
and telephone handset plunged through it.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Dave Salovesh
tomk...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) opined:
> It does everything except peel your vegetables ;-)
Ooh, wait! I know this one...
Something about the wheelchair, right?
--
dar...@example.com | depending, of course, | REPLACE example WITH
Dave Salovesh | on your perspective | mindspring TO EMAIL ME
(After more than a decade on USENET , it's finally come to this ^^^)
Benjamin Lewis
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:26:00 GMT, "John Doe" <pdr...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If that one life could have been saved by a helmet then it is worth it.
>>> What value are you placing on looking cool?
>>
>> Stop driving NOW! Car drivers kill tens of thousands every year in
>> the US ALONE! If even one life can be saved (and actually it'll bve
>> tens of thousands) surely it's worth it.
>
> Extreme it may seem, but this *is* one reason why i do not drive.
> I do not wish to be part of that culture that kills and injures so many.
I think it's sad that this seems like an extreme view.
Q.
news:40227f9f$0$41283$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
Yeah ... remember what LoD member Loyd Blankenship (The Mentor) wrote after
his arrest in '86?
And then a few years later the Secret Service raided Steve Jackson Games for
no reason (besides "The Mentor" kinda worked there). They took everything,
including a paintball gun just because it had "Mentor" written on the barrel
... what a paintball gun has in connection with hacking into computers is
anyone's guess. That scares the crap out of me ... it shows how utterly
clueless the Secret Service is, they can't even do a simple investigation.
In fact, they were sued by Steve Jackson Games and lost since they bungled
it so badly.
Anyways, the US Government needs to start hiring some of these guys and give
them free reign to hack away into other governments computers ... like
Canadia.
Free the Atlanta 3!!!
C.Q.C.
Benjamin Lewis
Because calling emacs a "text editor" is like calling Tokyo a "village."
Remember that the 20mb was not just for *one* person to run emacs, though.
People used to joke that it stands for "Eight Megabytes And Continually
Swapping."