Chris' memory
Cody in Spain
What I've seen so far is Nikken double-talking the issue. But you are right
in that I have not seen that post.
EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ADDRESSED TO HIM!!!
I vaguely remember someone (you?) telling me that he has said that but I
have not seen him state unequivically that he is a common mortal
SEE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH BY NIKKEN, CHRIS.
, that the meaning of his inheritance is based on his performance, or that
he is not by dint of his position infallible. Not since the split. He made
statements like "if I ever make a mistake let me know," a few years before
the split, but at the time of the split his disciples insisted that to
simply let him know about bad behavior on the part of priests constituted
grave slander. I consider such statements pandering. Like saying, well I'm
the company chairman, come to me with any problems -- and then firing you if
you actually believe such nonsense. But it would help if you would post
actual quotes, I have trouble believing verbal assurances.
As to the other subject, well. --
Gosho
Christopher H. Holte
When the original post was to him:
In article <Christopher H. Holte <> wrote:
> I don't know if Nikken received a false report or is simply lying,
Funny you should mention "lying" as another part of the sermon deals with
"honesty". Here it is:
"The Daishonin uses a single word to express the condition that one must
fulfill in order to become truly happy by chanting this Nam-Myoho-
Renge-Kyo, the condition that one must fulfill in order to accomplish what
we call "attaining Buddhahood." This is the word "honesty." In the "The
Meaning of the Entity" (Totaigi Sho) the Daishonin teaches:
The people who honestly discard the provisional teachings, believe only in
the Lotus Sutra, and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo will transform the three
paths of earthly desires, karma and suffering into the three virtues of the
Dharma body, wisdom, and emancipation. For them, the threefold contemplation
and the three truths will be actualized in a single mind. The place where
these people dwell is the land of eternal, tranquil, light. The Buddha of
the entity "Renge" of the Juryo chapter of the Essential Teachings...is to
be found among the disciples and supporters of Nichrien.
(Gosho Zenshu, p. 512)
He further teaches:
Because Nichiren's followers honestly discard the heretical doctrines of the
hereticals laws and heretical teachers of the provisional teahings and
honestly believe in the correct doctrines of the true Law and true teacher,
they will attain the enlightenment of the
entity "Renge" and manifest the mystic principle of the entity of eternal,
tranquil light. This is because they believe the golden words of the Lord
Teacher of the Juryo chapter of the Essential Teachings and chant Nam Myoho
Renge Kyo. (Gosho Zenshu, p. 518)
In these passages, the Daishonin uses the word "honestly" three times.
It is faith with this feeling of "honesty", faith with the feeling to
correctly uphold the truth no matter what comes, even at the cost of giving
one's life, and to promote that faith to other people, that one can
naturally receive the great benefit of attaining enlightenment in one's
present form.
If one interprets Buddhism with one's own ideas at the center (Hi Chris, Hi
Jim!), using one's own views, one will end up totally off base. A good
example of this is the person named Daisaku Ikeda, who unfortunately used to
occupy the top lay believers' position in this religion. The way he went
wrong the most was in chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with his own egotistic
views, with an erroneous view of the teachings of the true Buddha Nichiren
Daishonin. Guiding many people based on egotistic views centering on himself
has been the cause for great unhappiness.
This year I am seventy-one. The thing that I can say from the bottom of my
heart is that ****because I was a common mortal, and because I am a common
mortal now, in various senses I have made mistakes in the past.****
When the Soka Gakkai was going to obtain status as a religious
corporation I was only in my twenties. Even so, I told the people in the
Bureau of Religious Affairs at the time that it would be a mistake. However,
they didn't listen.
Later, I had the experience of meeting Mr. Josei Toda and spending two hours
talking together with him while drinking sake. At that time, I heard from
Mr. Toda that he was going to give his whole life from then on for
kosen-rufu. I then tried to make myself like the Soka Gakkai, which I had
previously disliked, and I did come to actually like them. This was because
I believed that, under the direction of Mr. Josei Toda, the Soka Gakkai was
a true organization for kosen-rufu.
Before long, the Gakkai entered the age of its third president, Daisaku
Ikeda. But to be honest, since I still felt the same way, I failed to see
through to the fundamentally base mind of Daisaku Ikeda.
If I look back, I remember that a priest came to see me 18 or 19 years ago
when I was the chief priest of Heianji Temple in Kyoto and chief of the
study bureau. This priest later went over to the Shoshinkai. He said to me,
"Daisaku Ikeda is off track. In Daisaku Ikeda's mind, he has the idea that
he himself is the true Buddha. Ikeda makes light of the teachings of the
Daishonin and thinks that he is at the center." However, I turned him away,
saying, ****'That's not true. It's just that he's working with all his might
for kosen rufu.' But ultimately, what that person said was true.****
When I think about it, Daisaku Ikeda was already fundamentally
mistaken. ****In failing to see that, I fervently reflect on myself now.****
However, this must be considered in terms of cause and relation in Buddhism,
from the wider viewpoint of the broader, deeper whole. I may not have seen
that then, but I am confident that I have always handled situations and
exerted myself honestly in terms of how events have unfolded according to
the cause and relation in Buddhism. Therefore, leaving aside what that
priest said at that time, the former priests who ran over to the group that
calls itself the "Shoshinkai" have stubbornily persisted in overlooking and
violating the fundamental meaning of the Daishonin's Buddhism. They weren't
actually right, in terms of everything that happened after that.
Anyway, in the flow of upholding and protecting Buddhism, it has always been
my intent to make "honesty" my foundation throughout my life. To truly serve
Buddhism means to correctly ****protect**** the Law no matter what comes
along, and that is the spirit I have always had.
Form the view point of that spirit, I have honestly protected the Law from
start to finish. Even though up until now I was fundamentally deceived by
Daisaku Ikeda, I am confident that the conditions for ****correcting these
errors**** have truly been solidified through the faith of many people, both
believers and myself and other priests.
If you think about it, dishonesty is no good even in the affairs of society.
Even when it may look as though a person will win the trust of many people
and reveal his or her true worth by progressing with honesty as his or her
standard.
The source for doing this is the Lotus Sutra. It is chanting Nam Myoho Renge
Kyo. The completely dishonest state of the Soka Gakkai, which guided by
Daisaku Ikda's egocentric views, is the opposite of this. They are abusing
the priests of Nichiren Shoshu, centering on myself, by fabricating all
sorts of things. But before long, that will all melt away."
Chris, now do you remember?
Cody in Spain
Cody in Spain
Well, Jim, I found it and it isn't in a Spanish magazine but an English one
called "Myohoji News" that a friend sent me. It is Vol. III, Number 9,
September, 1994, page 4:
Words of High Priest Nikken Shonin
Audience for the Overseas Believers, Airing of the Sacred Treasures
Ceremony,
August 6, 1994
Great Writing Hall
"...Among the poems of Nichiden Shonin, there is a verse that goes:
The bamboo toppled to the ground springs back up naturally
The snow that toppled it disappears without a trace.
(Nichiden Shonin Den, p. 82)
Even if straight, true bamboo is toppled over by snow, that is, even if it
is knocked down by somethng bad, the bad thing (in this example, the snow)
will natrually disappear and the true bamboo will stand back up just the way
it was before. This is definitely what will happen.
In other words, from now on we will over come the mistaken thinking of those
such as Daisaku Ikeda,and not only that, sometime within the eternal future
we will save them all. It seems that they are now furiously chanting Daimoku
to put a "curse" on us, chanting Daimoku in order to make us fall into hell.
But if a person wants others to fall into hell, he himself is already in a
state of hell. We, however, follow the great compassion of the true Buddha,
Nichiren Daishonin. We chant Daimoku both for ourselves to be saved and to
save others. In the end, we will save everyone, INCLUDING DAISAKU IKEDA
(caps mine). this is the kind of Daimoku we chant. It is from this that the
kosen-rufu of the Hokkeko derives its merit."
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte
of thousands of posts) over the past year, if I can't remmember the
details on every one of them I can forgive myself. At any rate, I'll
critique Nikken's speach more later. I find it interesting enough (at
least this go round) to save a copy to my pending file for upload to my
website later. I have heard Nikken describe himself as a common mortal
before, and then go on to act as if he doesn't see himself that way at
all. The most memorable was back in the 80's when he told people to
let him know if he makes any mistakes. Oh boy, he had me there. I was
really encouraged at the time that he was what he seemed. It's nice
that he admits to making mistakes because he sure has committed a
whopper this time.
In article <935671854.9684@cache0>,
--
<a href="http://www.paulingexhibit.org/exhibit/">
http://www.paulingexhibit.org/exhibit/</a><br>
<a href="http://welcome.to/ichinet/">Gosho</a><BR>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/athens/ithaca/9011/">Christopher H. Ho
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
mpc...@my-deja.com
Christopher H. Holte <lio...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> My memory may or may not be going. But after reading thousands (or
10's
> of thousands of posts) over the past year, if I can't remmember the
> details on every one of them I can forgive myself.
The reason I posted it then is the same reason I posted it yesterday.
You came up with the "infallibility" bullshit then just like you are
now.
At any rate, I'll
> critique Nikken's speach more later. I find it interesting enough (at
> least this go round) to save a copy to my pending file for upload to
my
> website later. I have heard Nikken describe himself as a common
mortal
> before, and then go on to act as if he doesn't see himself that way at
> all.
It never ceases to amaze me how great you think you are. You can
interpret the Gosho correctly, and now you are saying you can judge the
High Priest's actions. Watch that arrogance, Chris, because in both
cases you are way off.
The most memorable was back in the 80's when he told people to
> let him know if he makes any mistakes. Oh boy, he had me there. I was
> really encouraged at the time that he was what he seemed. It's nice
> that he admits to making mistakes because he sure has committed a
> whopper this time.
>
Which whopper is that, Chris?
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte
mpc...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <7q4p6a$k4n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Christopher H. Holte <lio...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> 10's
> > of thousands of posts) over the past year, if I can't remmember the
> > details on every one of them I can forgive myself.
>
> You came up with the "infallibility" bullshit then just like you are
> now.
in the attitude he and the priesthood have displayed. It is you folks
who maintain that the priesthood is above criticism and to be "revered"
as the third treasure -- regardless of behavior. That the HP has enough
sense to know that he is dancing doesn't make it any less so. The pope
on some occassions (especially this one and John) made similar
pronouncements -- such protestations of "I'm just like you guys" are
common among leaders. But scratch the surface and we hear you talking
about "vessel of the Law" and "Only Buddha present on this earth". I'm
not making anything up. I only wish I were. It's nice to see the
priests admitting they are fallable, they should be backtracking after
their earlier assertions. Kawabe is the one who made the analogy of the
tree and the leaves.
> At any rate, I'll
> > critique Nikken's speach more later. I find it interesting enough
(at
> > least this go round) to save a copy to my pending file for upload to
> my website later. I have heard Nikken describe himself as a common
> mortal before, and then go on to act as if he doesn't see himself
that way at all.
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how great you think you are. You can
> interpret the Gosho correctly, and now you are saying you can judge
the High Priest's actions. Watch that arrogance, Chris, because in both
> cases you are way off.
Here is another example of the double talk in action. First you say
that it is "I" who am maintaining that the HP is infallible, and that I
am lying. Then you say (or imply) that I (also a common mortal) am
unfit to judge the HP's actions. So isn't that saying that he is
"infallible" -- at least in relationship to all the people whom he has
offended or made hopping mad with his arrogant actions?
Actually I think the HP could be great -- if he came down off of his
High Horse and repudiated the assertion of a special inheritance of the
Law. He'd also be better off if he let go of his grudge against Ikeda.
I think you are great - but you'd be greater if you'd drop your grudge
against the SGI. I think Ikeda is great, I think Ken Burchell is great.
I think that Dave Cole is great. I wouldn't change one thing about any
of these people -- except I'd like to help them improve their attitude
towards SGI, Ikeda, and to see their relationship with their priests in
a different perspective.
> The most memorable was back in the 80's when he told people to
> > let him know if he makes any mistakes. Oh boy, he had me there. I
was
> > really encouraged at the time that he was what he seemed. It's nice
> > that he admits to making mistakes because he sure has committed a
> > whopper this time.
> >
> Which whopper is that, Chris?
>
Attacking the SGI, excommunicating us, and maintaining that he has a
"Special Transmission Face to Face" which, considering Nittatsu was on
his death bed when he received the "transmission" can scarce have
occured.
> Cody in Spain
Rogowdoc
Chris, you write:
>>>>>
I think you are great -.....>>>>
>>>>I think Ikeda is great, I think Ken Burchell is great. I think that Dave
Cole is great.>>>>>
Thats great, really. I think your great too. What do you think of the Dalai
Lama and Pope John Paul?
Mark
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte <> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> In article <> Cody wrote:
> > In article <>,
> > Christopher H. Holte <> wrote:
> > > My memory may or may not be going. But after reading thousands (or
> > 10's
> > > of thousands of posts) over the past year, if I can't remmember the
> > > details on every one of them I can forgive myself.
> >
> > You came up with the "infallibility" bullshit then just like you are
> > now.
> The ""infallibility" bullshit" is based on the behavior of the HP, as
> in the attitude he and the priesthood have displayed. It is you folks
> who maintain that the priesthood is above criticism and to be "revered"
> as the third treasure -- regardless of behavior.
No, Chris, you guys say we maintain that the priesthood is above criticism.
The fact is that criticism isn't necessary. Learning with a seeking spirit
is necessary. The High Priest has never said he is above criticism; as the
speech says, he admits to making mistakes. "Revered" no, respected, yes.
Your problem is the actions he took to eradicate the slanderous Ikeda from
destroying True Buddhism.
That the HP has enough
> sense to know that he is dancing doesn't make it any less so. The pope
> on some occassions (especially this one and John) made similar
> pronouncements -- such protestations of "I'm just like you guys" are
> common among leaders. But scratch the surface and we hear you talking
> about "vessel of the Law" and "Only Buddha present on this earth". I'm
> not making anything up. I only wish I were. It's nice to see the
> priests admitting they are fallable, they should be backtracking after
> their earlier assertions. Kawabe is the one who made the analogy of the
> tree and the leaves.
Round and round you go, Chris. What is it with you Gakkai members always
sticking the Pope's nose into this? I can only guess it is your attachment
to Christianity. You, again, are confusing the postion of High Priest with
the man, Nikken.
An example: you need an operation and a very good surgeon saves your life.
Turns out this surgeon beats his wife, plays around with other women and is
hooked on gambling. Does that mean he is a bad surgeon, Chris? Has your life
been saved any less?
> > At any rate, I'll
> > > critique Nikken's speach more later. I find it interesting enough
> (at
> > > least this go round) to save a copy to my pending file for upload to
> > my website later. I have heard Nikken describe himself as a common
> > mortal before, and then go on to act as if he doesn't see himself
> that way at all.
> >
> > It never ceases to amaze me how great you think you are. You can
> > interpret the Gosho correctly, and now you are saying you can judge
> the High Priest's actions. Watch that arrogance, Chris, because in both
> > cases you are way off.
>
> Here is another example of the double talk in action. First you say
> that it is "I" who am maintaining that the HP is infallible, and that I
> am lying. Then you say (or imply) that I (also a common mortal) am
> unfit to judge the HP's actions. So isn't that saying that he is
> "infallible" -- at least in relationship to all the people whom he has
> offended or made hopping mad with his arrogant actions?
No, Chris, I am saying you are being trapped by your ego. You think you know
more about Buddhism than you do. You think you know more about Buddhism than
the High Priest when in reality you don't know more than an acolyte. Don't
they teach humility in SGI any more?
> Actually I think the HP could be great -- if he came down off of his
> High Horse and repudiated the assertion of a special inheritance of the
> Law. He'd also be better off if he let go of his grudge against Ikeda.
Well, just call him up and give him guidance, honbucho! Or are you a
homencho now or a General Director?
> I think you are great - but you'd be greater if you'd drop your grudge
> against the SGI.
I don't have a grudge agaisnt SGI. When they were following the priesthood
as a lay organization should, most of what they taught was true. The got
strange in the 80's and very strange in the nineties. I got worried about
the direction they were taking in the 80's and when the priesthood confirmed
my worries, I left the SGI in the nineties.
I do, however, think SGI should mind their own business, leave Nichiren
Shoshu alone and do whatever they want to do without Temple Issues Study
meetings and the like. We don't have SGI Issues Study meetings. SGI is sick.
Look at your buddy Wersant sticking his nose into everyone's personal
business; something, it seems, he learned emulating his leaders and was fed
gossip by YOU and Kathy.
I think Ikeda is great, I think Ken Burchell is great.
> I think that Dave Cole is great. I wouldn't change one thing about any
> of these people -- except I'd like to help them improve their attitude
> towards SGI, Ikeda, and to see their relationship with their priests in
> a different perspective.
Yes, THE GREAT CHRIS HOLTE will save them all. You are hopeless, Chris.
> > The most memorable was back in the 80's when he told people to
> > > let him know if he makes any mistakes. Oh boy, he had me there. I
> was
> > > really encouraged at the time that he was what he seemed. It's nice
> > > that he admits to making mistakes because he sure has committed a
> > > whopper this time.
> > >
> > Which whopper is that, Chris?
> >
> Attacking the SGI, excommunicating us, and maintaining that he has a
> "Special Transmission Face to Face" which, considering Nittatsu was on
> his death bed when he received the "transmission" can scarce have
> occured.
Were you there? No. Do your therefore know what you are talking about? No.
Do you come on like you know what you are talking about anyway. Yes.
Pathetic.
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte
(Rogowdoc) writes:
>
>>>>>>
>I think you are great -.....>>>>
>
>>>>>I think Ikeda is great, I think Ken Burchell is great. I think that Dave
>Cole is great.>>>>>
>
> Thats great, really. I think your great too. What do you think of the
>Dalai
>Lama and Pope John Paul?
>
I think you all have a Buddha Nature, which you will manifest when you embrace
the Lotus Sutra as taught by Nichiren Daishonin.
Read the Gosho for yourself!<br>
<a href="http:\\dragon.lizardtech.com\">dragon.lizardtech.com</a><br>
<a href= "http:\\www.geocities.com\Athens\Ithaca\9011\Index.html">More links
and information< /a><br>
Christopher H. Holte