Bert's Question
Aaron H. Voobner
Message-id: <20010706173315...@ng-cm1.news.cs.com>
<<Hi Aaron,
I've a question for you and it's meant in the very best of spirit.
What is it
that you would like to accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? This is an
honest
question, Aaron, so no flames please. To the other individuals here,
please
allow Aaron to respond without any inflammatory comments, thanks. Take
it easy,
Aaron. I respect what I think you're trying to accomplish but I need
to hear it
from you. Maybe there's a middle ground to be had, maybe not. Thanks
again.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN>>
Hi Bert,
This reply is in the best of spirit also. To help answer your
question, I must pose a similar question of you and the group. What do
you think Train's purpose is, and what does it appear he might want to
accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? I have provided a number of posts of
his where he openly promotes illegal cb and even offers to sell
illegal gear. To me, his agenda is obvious and clearly stated, which
is to break FCC law, and to promote the breaking of FCC law.
I am simply an alternative voice to that agenda. Since people like
Train do not seek any "middle ground", neither do I. I employ the
same methodology that those who oppose legal CB use.
My purpose and what I want to accomplish is best expressed by Sparky
and the Anti-KeyClown movement. Perhaps it is easiest to post their
FAQ here below.
I will be glad to answer further questions, provided they are serious
ones that pertain to this topic.
-Aaron-
Q: What is a KeyClown?
A: A 'KeyClown', in a nutshell, is a CBer gone bad. The name is
derived
from the term 'keydown', which is the equivalent of a dragrace using
illegal radio amplifiers. A keyclown can be recognized by his or her
open
and public disregard for FCC regulations, total disrespect for other
CBers,
and hostile aggression towards any form of criticism.
Q: What is an Anti-KeyClown?
A: An 'AntiKeyClown' is a legal CBer that actively confronts keyclowns
on
their own terms. Disrespect is countered with disrespect, hostility
with
hostility, etc. Any method or tactic used by the keyclown to harass
legal
CBers, intimidate proponents of legal operation, or dominate either
the
Citizen's Band or any other aspect of legal CB use, will be considered
a
fair and viable method or tactic for use against the keyclowns.
Q: Are the AntiKeyClown posts actually all the work of N8WWM? Or
Sparky? Or
Leland? Or...?
A: There are many AntiKeyClowns. Each Anti takes upon him or herself
the
role that is best suited to their talents and abilities. While one
Anti may
choose to remain 'behind the scenes', another will perform their
duties as
a spokesperson. Some wish not to be indentified, while others enjoy
the
freedoms of full exposure. An Anti need not identify him or herself as
such, and may make only a minor contribution to the effort. This
describes
the majority of the AntiKeyClowns. Only a few have choosen to be
visible.
Q: Why do you hate illegal/outlaw CBers?
A: AntiKeyClowns are not about hate. An Anti is typically a person
that has
been offended, disturbed or victimized by the actions of keyclowns,
and has
chosen to take action instead of accepting defeat at the hands of
outlaws.
Q: What do keyclowns do?
A: A keyclown generally ignores two important laws:
The first is by using radio frequency amplifiers with their CB
radios.
These amplifiers are usually of poor design and construction, and will
emit
powerful harmonics. These harmonics, or "splatter," interferes with
broadcast radio and television, as well as other legal radio
communications
such as police, fire, ambulance and aircraft communications. It also
disrupts the Citizen's Band on other channels, making the channel or
band
useless for several miles within the radius of the keyclown. Many
times
this disruption is done with the deliberate intention of "shutting
down"
legal CBers.
The second law involves the use of frequencies that are outside of
the
Citizen's Band, and can even intrude on the 10 and 12 meter Amateur
Radio
bands. The primary reason for doing this is because people like
themselves
have made the legal channels useless in their area.
The behavior of keyclowns, if left unchecked, may eventually lead
to the
elimination of the Citizen's Band altogether. As the number of
keyclowns
increases, so will the need for more bandwidth and more power. This is
a
"king of the hill" mentality, and anyone that operates legally gets
thrown
off the hill. At some point in the future the keyclowns may become so
loud
and disruptive that the only way to stop them will be to 'clear the
board' by
shutting down the Citizen's Band completely. We would like to prevent
both
from happening.
Q: So why don't you just make your point and then go away? You're
being
"rude" by contantly poking your nose where it doesn't belong.
A: The Anti's believe in the Golden Rule.
Q: But you're just riling up the illegals and making them angry.
That's not
being a responsible person.
A: Their actions and emotions are not our responsibility.
Q: Why don't you go back and clean up your own mess on the ham bands?
A: The AntiKeyClowns have nothing to do with the Amateur Radio
Services. It
is true that some of the Anti's are hams, but it is also true that
some of
the keyclowns are hams as well. Amateur Radio has no more relevance to
this
subject than does saltwater fishing.
Q: But I'm a ham and I don't care what goes on on CB.
A: You should. Every year the "CB problem" gets worse, not better.
More
phoney export radios are flooding the market. More freebanders and
confused
truckers are showing up on 10 meters. We guarantee that if nothing is
done,
amateurs will be unwillingly "sharing" the 10 and 12 meter bands with
illegal CBers in a very short time. And with the increase of illegal
amps
splattering into your home entertainment systems and other consumer
devices, this is an issue that needs to be addressed not only by CBers
and
hams, but also by the general public.
Q: I support legal CB, but I do it quietly.
A: As stated before in this FAQ, each person will do what they feel is
best
for them. However, illegal radio operation is making the radio
spectrum a
very noisy place. In time, your quiet legal radio operation will be
silenced by the keyclowns. This is what the Anti's see in the very
near
future, and it is what we are trying to prevent.
Q: You can't stop people from posting. It's perfectly legal to talk
about
illegal CB.
A: It is not our intent, nor can we prevent anyone from excercising
their
rights under the 1st amendment to the US Constitution.
Q: So why don't you go to a CB coffee break and harass people?
A: Our methods are diverse, but legal. We have noted the hostility of
many
of these illegal operators, and any attempt to provoke a group with
another
group would probably incite large-scale violence. Violence is not our
intent, and would not benefit anyone. We would prefer to stand at a
distance and collect information that can be used by the proper
authorities.
Q: But I thought the law said I can own an export radio.
A: The FCC has issued a reminder about those HF transceivers
ostensibly marketed for "amateur" use but actually designed and
intended
specifically for the so-called "freeband" radio operators who operate
primarily in the 26 to 28 MHz frequency range. This notice, as well as
all
other FCC related material my be found at www.fcc.gov.
Q: Why can't I sell my CB amp or export radio on the newsgroup?
A: We cannot provide any legal advice except to suggest that anyone
interested should read the FCC regulations. If you are in doubt as to
how
those regulations apply to you, consult an attorney, or email the FCC
and
they will provide a quick and authoritative answer to your question.
Q: But illegal CBers are just "bending the law." These laws are
trivial.
A: The laws that are being "bent" can result in fines up to $75,000
and up
to 1 year in prison. The punishment is not trivial, nor is the crime.
Q: The FCC doesn't enforce these laws, so why should I bother to obey
them?
A: The FCC's recent lack of enforcement is no reason to think that
they
cannot enforce these laws at any time they please. That is a decision
to be
made by the FCC, not the AntiKeyClowns.
Q: Illegal CB is civil disobedience. Like the Minutemen did during the
Revolutionary War. Or Rosa Parks during the Civil Rights protests.
A: We are, and always have been, open-minded to any argument providing
moral justification for this illegal behavior. Unfortunately, no one
has
provided such an argument.
Q: CB is CB.....legal or not!
A: Here's an analogy. A hunter is one who follows hunting laws. Once
he stops following the laws he is a poacher. A CB'er is one who
follows CB regulations. Once he stops following the regulations, he is
a pirate.
Q: Are you flamers? Trolls?
A: Yes and no. We flame and troll as necessary. Keyclowns are the only
targets, and only keyclowns that have previously trolled or flamed
others.
Q: But you're screwing up the newsgroup.
A: Keyclowns have been "screwing up" the Citizen's Band for several
years.
We exist as a consequence of their behavior. Please do not confuse
'cause'
(the keyclowns) and 'effect' (the AntiKeyClowns). Without keyclowns
there
would be no AntiKeyClowns.
Q: Your anti-illegal CB postings are useless.
A: Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Bert Craig
I think we can work with this. Your reply was pretty lengthy, but I certainly
read it in full and can understand some of your points and the frustrations
behind them. I'll try to address some of your "Q & A" points and see if we (as
a group) can't find some sort of "middle ground."
>What do
>you think Train's purpose is, and what does it appear he might want to
>accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? I have provided a number of posts of
>his where he openly promotes illegal cb and even offers to sell
>illegal gear. To me, his agenda is obvious and clearly stated, which
>is to break FCC law, and to promote the breaking of FCC law.
If what you say is true, I'd say Train's purpose is to make money. I've been in
the "game" for over twenty years and I can honestly say I've never met an amp
builder or "export" radio retailer who wanted to promote the breaking of any
laws. Does that make it right? No! However, there are those whose occupation it
is to address this issue, they too do this to make money.
>I am simply an alternative voice to that agenda.
I respect that. I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll certainly
defend your right to say it.
>Since people like
>Train do not seek any "middle ground", neither do I. I employ the
>same methodology that those who oppose legal CB use.
I don't think two wrongs make a right. If somebody burglarizes your home, you
don't go and rob their's. You report it to the appropriate authorities. I
understand that you would like to harass them and disrupt their comms on the
NG, much in the way that they disrupt yours, mine, and other "legal" CBers.
However, think about this, you end up disrupting my, as well as other "legal,"
comms on the NG. When I enter the NG, I don't want to wade through multiple
posts filled with profanity any more than the next guy. You end up becoming the
very same "disruptor" that you've set out to discourage, just on a different
medium.
>Q: Are the AntiKeyClown posts actually all the work of N8WWM? Or
>Sparky? Or
>
>Leland? Or...?
Quite frankly, I never really cared whether it was one person or multiple
posters. I personally couldn't care less if you carried on a ten way discussion
and played the role of each poster as long as the message is valid.
>Q: Why do you hate illegal/outlaw CBers?
>
>A: AntiKeyClowns are not about hate. An Anti is typically a person
>that has
>been offended, disturbed or victimized by the actions of keyclowns,
>and has
>chosen to take action instead of accepting defeat at the hands of
>outlaws.
Here's where we hit paydirt! It appears that what you're trying to accomplish
is vengeance aginst those who've "offended, disturbed or victimized" you. I was
originally under the impression that you were actually trying to discourage
others from further engaging in illegal 11 meter activities.
Quick story. (I promise) When I first decided to become licensed and earn my
Novice ticket, I went to the local ARC to research the requirements. To make a
long story short, once they found out that I was a CBer, (Nevermind that I was
neither a freebander nor used an amp.) they treated me like crap...with a
capital S! This resulted in a severe case of th "kiss my a$$" attitude from
yourd truly. "Screw them" I said, but you know who I really screwed...ME! They
couldn't care less, but I lost precious time with which I could've been "on the
bands." Just something to think about.
>Q: What do keyclowns do?
>
>A: A keyclown generally ignores two important laws:
> The first is by using radio frequency amplifiers with their CB
>radios.
>These amplifiers are usually of poor design and construction, and will
>emit
>powerful harmonics. These harmonics, or "splatter," interferes with
>broadcast radio and television, as well as other legal radio
>communications
>such as police, fire, ambulance and aircraft communications. It also
>disrupts the Citizen's Band on other channels, making the channel or
>band
>useless for several miles within the radius of the keyclown. Many
>times
>this disruption is done with the deliberate intention of "shutting
>down"
>legal CBers.
>
> The second law involves the use of frequencies that are outside of
>the
>Citizen's Band, and can even intrude on the 10 and 12 meter Amateur
>Radio
>bands. The primary reason for doing this is because people like
>themselves
>have made the legal channels useless in their area.
I agree with you, there's really nothing I can offer to dispute this. Now rethe
words channels and frequencies with newsgroups; and keyclown with AntiKeyClown;
and so on...get the picture?
>The behavior of keyclowns, if left unchecked, may eventually lead
>to the
>elimination of the Citizen's Band altogether.
Like I said, freebanders and what you describe as "keyclowns" have been around
as long as CB has existed. In the words of George Carlin, "The earth's <band's>
not going anywhere...we are folks!" Give it some thought. You make a well
thought out statement but it doesn't actually seem to be lessening the problem,
quite the opposite. Take it easy.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
GMpartsdude
Novice ticket, I went to the local ARC to research the requirements. To make
a
long story short, once they found out that I was a CBer, (Nevermind that I
was
neither a freebander nor used an amp.) they treated me like crap...with a
capital S! This resulted in a severe case of th "kiss my a$$" attitude from
yourd truly. "Screw them" I said, but you know who I really screwed...ME!
They
couldn't care less, but I lost precious time with which I could've been "on
the
bands." Just something to think about.
When i first went for my tests, i also told them i was an active CB'er. I
received quite the opposite reaction. I hope that was the exception and not
the rule. But maybe us thrifty New Englanders do things a bit different ;)
Bert Craig
>received quite the opposite reaction. I hope that was the exception and not
>the rule. But maybe us thrifty New Englanders do things a bit different ;)
I'm sure. Part of growing up is accepting responsibility for your mistakes. I
should've let it slide right off my back but I was young and it had a
polarizing effect. The best I can do now is share the experience and possibly
help others avoid the same discouraging fate.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
Aaron H. Voobner
From: kc2...@cs.com (Bert Craig)
Date: Sat, Jul 7, 2001 1:46 AM
Message-id: <20010706214628...@ng-fa1.news.cs.com>
<<Okay Aaron,
I think we can work with this. Your reply was pretty lengthy, but I
certainly
read it in full and can understand some of your points and the
frustrations
behind them. I'll try to address some of your "Q & A" points and see
if we (as
a group) can't find some sort of "middle ground.">>
>What do
>you think Train's purpose is, and what does it appear he might want
to
>accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? I have provided a number of posts of
>his where he openly promotes illegal cb and even offers to sell
>illegal gear. To me, his agenda is obvious and clearly stated, which
>is to break FCC law, and to promote the breaking of FCC law.
<<If what you say is true, I'd say Train's purpose is to make money.
I've been in
the "game" for over twenty years and I can honestly say I've never met
an amp
builder or "export" radio retailer who wanted to promote the breaking
of any
laws. Does that make it right? No! However, there are those whose
occupation it
is to address this issue, they too do this to make money.>>
Yes, agreed, a thief who steals someone's wallet does not intend to
promote thievery, they simply need the money. Should we not
uneccesarily burden thieves and criminals with ideology they might not
subscribe to?
Regarding Train being motivated simply by money, I disagree. See
below.
>I am simply an alternative voice to that agenda.
<<I respect that. I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll
certainly
defend your right to say it.>>
>Since people like
>Train do not seek any "middle ground", neither do I. I employ the
>same methodology that those who oppose legal CB use.
<<I don't think two wrongs make a right. If somebody burglarizes your
home, you
don't go and rob their's. You report it to the appropriate
authorities.>>
Where there has been a crime (selling illegal amps) it has been
reported. However promoting illegal CB in a NG is not a crime. By the
same token, posting alternate viewpoints that disagree with those
promoting illegal CB in a NG is not a crime. I do not agree that
legal CBers must refrain from speaking up and voicing opposition to
illegal CBers because it may be "disruptive to the group".
<< I
understand that you would like to harass them and disrupt their comms
on the
NG, much in the way that they disrupt yours, mine, and other "legal"
CBers.
However, think about this, you end up disrupting my, as well as other
"legal,"
comms on the NG. When I enter the NG, I don't want to wade through
multiple
posts filled with profanity any more than the next guy. You end up
becoming the
very same "disruptor" that you've set out to discourage, just on a
different
medium.>>
My intent is not to prove who is more righteous. The illegals don't
care about what is "right" anyway. They don't care about anyone's
comfort or discomfort. They care only about their ability to pursue
their illegal CB hobby or business being lessened.
I am sorry to disagree with you on this point, but all you need to do
is read Train's own posts (which I conveniently attach). The author
does not seem to be a person who cares only about "profits".
==========================================
Subject: Re: Question Fer Dick M.
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:50:00 GMT
From: "Train" <cbm...@optonline.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
darn it........I have newsranger blocked and missed this post so I'll
address it now...........Eat shit and die! Who sells what or who's
buying is
of no concern to you.......You just need a reason to cry like the
little
child you are. Grow up! Your little click isn't going to even put a
dent in
what gets sold for CB radio legal or otherwise.
Being in radio as long as I have and knowing the people I
know........It's
going to be a long long time before slime like you will ever be able
to do a
damned thing to anyone selling radio stuff. I have more radio info on
CD's
and a larger database than most of you clowns would ever dream of and
if
need be ALL WILL BE PUT ON A WEBSITE. Everything from schematics for
amps
that we were building in the 70's and 80's to every last page of
master
editions.....secret cb.....green, gray, black books.........You name
it and
I got it. Nothing you sleazy little shits can do will EVER stop people
from
getting information they need. Bet on it!
--
Train
tr...@aol.com
cbm...@optonline.com
tr...@cbmods.com
===================================
Subject: MOBIL AMP SALE
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:09:40 GMT
From: "Train" <cbm...@optonline.net>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
As a public service to the NG, I will be offering to sell mobil amps
to
those wishing to buy them. This is not done out of greed but out of
necessity to thwart the losers in the NG who think they have taken
over OUR
nice little group and can use it to harass and belittle as they see
fit. To
offer sale of these items is just the thing needed in a public forum
to mess
with these nil-minded simpletons. Amps such as Texas Star, Palomar,
Cobra,
Messenger, Gray, Galaxy, X-Force and so on. These will be sold for a
limited
time and at a VERY small profit IF ANY !
This is not a money thing so much as it is an access thing.
Since these self appointed radio/computer gods have declared knowledge
an
illegal thing also, I might just make the entire Secret CB book series
available on CD along with a CD of amplifier schematics for base and
mobil
amps. Why is it that when these morons just think they are getting
somewhere
in their fight somebody like me comes along and pisses on their
parade?
BECAUSE THEY NEED IT AND DESERVE IT!!!!!!!!!
E-Mail me with your needs......
Train
tr...@aol.com
tr...@cbmods.com
cbm...@optonline.net
=============================
From: "Train" cbm...@optonline.net
Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 5:59 PM
Message-id: <5CTN6.10757$MR1.2...@news02.optonline.net>
I have no use for or reason to operate legally.
There are thousands of us who will continue to operate as we see fit
without
regard to whatever some schmuck like you or your little click of
over-opinionated morons have to say about it. You can cry all you like
but
those of us who can, will and those of you who can't......Will
continue to
cry about it.
Train
========================
Subject: Re: Ameritron AL80A
From: "Train" cbm...@optonline.net
Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 11:40 AM
Message-id: <n8GY6.43556$Lk1.4...@news02.optonline.net>
"Gary" <gharr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9gm24u$34ju$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
> I have an Ameritron AL80A. How can I modify it for use on 11 Meters? It
> has the ability to tune to the high end of 10 Meters. Any information
>would be useful.
You Know damn well it can be easily done.......Breakout that golden
screwdriver and get to it!
--
Train
tr...@aol.com
cbm...@optonline.com
tr...@cbmods.com
==========================================
>Q: Are the AntiKeyClown posts actually all the work of N8WWM? Or
>Sparky? Or
>
>Leland? Or...?
<<Quite frankly, I never really cared whether it was one person or
multiple
posters. I personally couldn't care less if you carried on a ten way
discussion
and played the role of each poster as long as the message is valid.>>
>Q: Why do you hate illegal/outlaw CBers?
>
>A: AntiKeyClowns are not about hate. An Anti is typically a person
>that has
>been offended, disturbed or victimized by the actions of keyclowns,
>and has
>chosen to take action instead of accepting defeat at the hands of
>outlaws.
<<Here's where we hit paydirt! It appears that what you're trying to
accomplish
is vengeance aginst those who've "offended, disturbed or victimized"
you. I was
originally under the impression that you were actually trying to
discourage
others from further engaging in illegal 11 meter activities.
Quick story. (I promise) When I first decided to become licensed and
earn my
Novice ticket, I went to the local ARC to research the requirements.
To make a
long story short, once they found out that I was a CBer, (Nevermind
that I was
neither a freebander nor used an amp.) they treated me like
crap...with a
capital S! This resulted in a severe case of th "kiss my a$$" attitude
from
yourd truly. "Screw them" I said, but you know who I really
screwed...ME! They
couldn't care less, but I lost precious time with which I could've
been "on the
bands." Just something to think about.>>
Sorry, no paydirt. If my goal was vengeance then there would probably
be more efficient and selective ways of accomplishing that goal rather
than debating legal/illegal CB on Usenet. However, I assure you my
purpose is not vengeance. It is simply, as I stated before, to
provide an alternate voice to the illegal propaganda in this NG.
Unfortunately, to be a truly effective alternative, the alternative
has to be as loud and as strident as what it is opposing.
Quick story. I have communicated with many of the vocal defenders of
illegal CB here in the NG. In every case where the person was a ham,
they invariably told me of an incident in their past when they were
treated poorly by an amateur or potential Elmer because of their "CB"
interests. This incident affected their attitude about the radio
hobby to a great degree. Their subsequent embrace of pirate CB seemed
motivated by vengeance toward 'stuck up' hams and rules in general. In
relating this I make no judgements about you, Bert. This is just
something to think about.
<<I agree with you, there's really nothing I can offer to dispute
this. Now rethe
words channels and frequencies with newsgroups; and keyclown with
AntiKeyClown;
and so on...get the picture?>>
Sorry, your statement appears to have gotten garbled?
>The behavior of keyclowns, if left unchecked, may eventually lead
>to the
>elimination of the Citizen's Band altogether.
<<Like I said, freebanders and what you describe as "keyclowns" have
been around
as long as CB has existed. In the words of George Carlin, "The earth's
<band's>
not going anywhere...we are folks!" Give it some thought. You make a
well
thought out statement but it doesn't actually seem to be lessening the
problem,
quite the opposite. Take it easy.>>
I disagree. A Google search will reveal the NG was once virtually the
private clubhouse for the keydown gang and a virtual sales salon for
illegal equipment dealers such as DaveMade and ExportsRUs. I take the
fact that these people see rec.radio.cb as unfriendly to illegal CB
(and so abstain from posting here) as a significant change and a
lessening of "the problem".
-Aaron-
Bert Craig
I certainly have a better "read' on your efforts now. I personally disagree
with how you're going about it, but your goals seem altruistic enough. It's
just a shame that the AKC multiple posts and profanity appear to have clogged
the NG to the point where one needs a significant number of words, unrelated to
CB, in one's filter to read the NG with any measure of pleasure. I'd rather
pick and choose my topics of choice rather than have to sift through the AKC
QRM, but that's just me. Thanks for the honest and friendly exchange, I
appreciate it. Take it easy.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
Frank Gilliland
<snip>
>Here's where we hit paydirt! It appears that what you're trying to accomplish
>is vengeance aginst those who've "offended, disturbed or victimized" you. I was
>originally under the impression that you were actually trying to discourage
>others from further engaging in illegal 11 meter activities.
I have stated more than once (and twistie repeats me regularly) that
RF pirates affect my work directly. Regardless, the motivations are
irrelavent if the argument is valid.
<snip>
> Like I said, freebanders and what you describe as "keyclowns" have been around
>as long as CB has existed. In the words of George Carlin, "The earth's <band's>
>not going anywhere...we are folks!" Give it some thought. You make a well
>thought out statement but it doesn't actually seem to be lessening the problem,
>quite the opposite. Take it easy.
>
>73 de Bert
>KC2HMN
RF piracy, by that or any other name, is theft of public property,
pure and simple. I have as much respect for them as I do for any other
common thief. There is no doubt that RF piracy will continue, just as
other crimes will continue. People will be people, and there will
always be a contingent that will have no respect for others in
general. But that does not mean that the actions of these people
should be acceptable simply because they will never go away.
At any point in time there may be a majority of people in this
newsgroup that prefer to ignore federal laws. This "group-think",
"group perception", or "mob mentality" can be a powerful influence on
any individual, and there are many individuals that read this
newsgroup. Any encouragement to break federal laws may or may not be
intentional, but it will be present as long as there is unchallenged
discussion in support of RF piracy.
While these people may hold the majority of this newsgroup, that does
not make their discussions of illegal behavior 'right'. They do not
represent the majority of people to whom these laws apply, but are
only a small minority in that respect. While I make no claims to be
representative of the public majority, I do not see any reason to
compromise the content of my posts simply because my opinions are not
shared by this newsgroup's majority.
If someone doesn't like my posts, they don't have to read them.
Consider that most newsreaders have filters. For that reason, I only
post with my email at the top. Once in a while I will change my header
to get through someone's filter, but not often. Regardless, if you
look at the posts as of late, most of the spam and profanity is coming
from the "keyclowns", not the "anti's". Also consider that we all have
to wade through the posts to find the ones of interest. That's just
the way some newsgroups work.
Most ISP's address newsgroup behavior in their TOS. One of the common
phrases regarding trolls is "it takes two to tango". In other words,
don't lay any blame on Voobner, Doug, Leland, or any other "anti"
without laying equal blame on those that respond to them. I haven't
seen any posts asking any of the "keyclowns" for some sort of
compromise...
============
From: twist...@webtv.net (twist...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Hams Aren't The Problem (was: What a group!)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
Date: 2001-01-08 11:46:17 PST
No high horse, here. Don't need it. I do the word barefoot just fine,
thank you. You say one thing, but the gist of the matter of late is you
either obey all the rules or you're a criminal. And I'm gonna shoot that
full of holes every time it comes up with some real merit and substance,
the same goes for talking above or below 40 if it ain't on the hammie
bands, quit yer belleyachin'! If your sole argument is splatter boxes,
say so. If yer of the mindset of some of our shakier resident boobs,
thats cool, too, but it is meritless.
Bert Craig
posts. Like you said, the filter can be employed and I have an ever growing
list of words in it now. (As well as every profane word I can think of.) I just
thought there might be a possibility of reaching some semblence of an
understanding or truce but that no longer appears to be possible. At the very
least, I've a better read on your efforts. My own efforts strive for the same
ends, but employ vastly different means. Take it easy, Frank.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
Twistedhed
Message-id: <20010706173315...@ng-cm1.news.cs.com>
<<Hi Aaron,
I've a question for you and it's meant in the very best of spirit. What
is it
that you would like to accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? This is an
honest
question, Aaron, so no flames please. To the other individuals here,
please
allow Aaron to respond without any inflammatory comments, thanks. Take
it easy,
Aaron. I respect what I think you're trying to accomplish but I need to
hear it
from you. Maybe there's a middle ground to be had, maybe not. Thanks
again.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN>>
Hi Bert,
This reply is in the best of spirit also. To help answer your question,
I must pose a similar question of you and the group.
<LMAO POOR POOR LELAND WHAT A DUMBFUCK>
What do you think Train's
<EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT LELAND HAS NEW GOD THE MIGHTY TWISTY HAS
FALLEN TRAIN IS NOW WORTHY OF YOUR IDOLATRY>
purpose is, and what does it appear he might want to accomplish here on
rec.radio.cb? I have provided a number of posts of his where he openly
promotes illegal cb and even offers to sell illegal gear. To me, his
agenda is obvious and clearly stated, which is to break FCC law, and to
promote the breaking of FCC law.
I am simply an alternative voice to that agenda. Since people like Train
do not seek any "middle ground", neither do I. I employ the same
methodology that those who oppose legal CB use.
<YOU MEAN YOU USE THE SAME BULLSHIT YOU ALWAYS DID>
My purpose and what I want to accomplish is best expressed by Sparky and
the Anti-KeyClown movement.
<ON YOUR KNEES LOOKING FOR SAME SEX?>
Twistedhed
Message-id: <20010706173315...@ng-cm1.news.cs.com>
<<Hi Aaron,
I've a question for you and it's meant in the very best of spirit. What
is it
that you would like to accomplish here on rec.radio.cb? This is an
honest
question, Aaron, so no flames please. To the other individuals here,
please
allow Aaron to respond without any inflammatory comments, thanks. Take
it easy,
Aaron. I respect what I think you're trying to accomplish but I need to
hear it
from you. Maybe there's a middle ground to be had, maybe not. Thanks
again.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN>>
Hi Bert,
This reply is in the best of spirit also. To help answer your question,
I must pose a similar question of you and the group.
<LMAO POOR POOR LELAND WHAT A DUMBFUCK>
What do you think Train's
<EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT LELAND HAS NEW GOD THE MIGHTY TWISTY HAS
FALLEN TRAIN IS NOW WORTHY OF YOUR IDOLATRY>
purpose is, and what does it appear he might want to accomplish here on
rec.radio.cb? I have provided a number of posts of his where he openly
promotes illegal cb and even offers to sell illegal gear. To me, his
agenda is obvious and clearly stated, which is to break FCC law, and to
promote the breaking of FCC law.
I am simply an alternative voice to that agenda. Since people like Train
do not seek any "middle ground", neither do I. I employ the same
methodology that those who oppose legal CB use.
<YOU MEAN YOU USE THE SAME BULLSHIT YOU ALWAYS DID>
My purpose and what I want to accomplish is best expressed by Sparky and
the Anti-KeyClown movement.
<ON YOUR KNEES LOOKING FOR SAME SEX?>
Perhaps it is easiest to post their FAQ here below.
I will be glad to answer further questions, provided they are serious
ones that pertain to this topic.
Try your cotse account after THAT email!
Assumption #1: It is not my job to enforce the law.
Response: It is my legal right, moral responsibility, and independant
choice to enforce any law I see fit to enforce. But I am not enforcing
-- or breaking -- any law by posting in this newsgroup.
Assumption #2: I get upset about the law being broken.
Response: I do not get upset about any CB law being broken. On the
contrary, the more RF pirates that break the law the better.
Assumption #3: The breaking of the law does not directly harm me, a
friend, or a loved one.
Response: RF pirates affect me directly in my work.
.....Frank Gilliland (Spa...@cet.com)
Taken from rec.radio.cb on 2001-06-28 12:54 22 PST
Twistedhed
cber absolutely MUST redirect focus from himself in order to justify his
utter contemptuous behavior. Repeated behavior. All Leland.
Twistedhed
irrelavent if the argument is valid.
<snip>
Like I said, freebanders and what you describe as "keyclowns" have
been around as long as CB has existed. In the words of George Carlin,
"The earth's <band's> not going anywhere...we are folks!" Give it some
thought. You make a well thought out statement but it doesn't actually
seem to be lessening the problem, quite the opposite. Take it easy.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
RF piracy, by that or any other name, is theft of public property,
"Whaaaa? Public property? The spectrum now belongs to the public, huh?
Of which country?"
pure and simple. I have as much respect for them as I do
"As anyone here has for you."
for any other common thief. There is no doubt that RF piracy will
continue, just as other crimes will continue. People will be people, and
there will always be a contingent that will have no respect for others
in general.
"Like you. Also like you, one that must get personal when their debate
arguent is shot full of holes."
But that does not mean that the actions of these people should be
acceptable simply because they will never go away.
"Your actions AREN'T accepted. You lost ynn, did you not?"
At any point in time there may be a majority of people in this newsgroup
that prefer to ignore federal laws.
"What is your comment regarding Leland's post seeking to circumvent and
IGNORE federal law?"
This "group-think", "group perception", or "mob mentality" can be a
powerful influence on any individual,
"Ha! Only on the weak. People like me watch you and your three pals play
Walter Mitty of the cb and hammie airwaes and howl with gratification."
and there are many individuals that read this newsgroup. Any
encouragement to break federal laws
"Here comes your bullshit you sling so well. No one ENCOURAGES it you
boob. Simply talking about it burns your chaps so you pretend it is
something it isn't. I said it to you 6 months ago junior, and I'll say
it now, you'll NOT control the speech of this ng., no matter how you
carry on."
may or may not be intentional, but it will be present as long as there
is unchallenged discussion in support of RF piracy.
"Or your constant attack on the speech of RF theory and related items."
While these people may hold the majority of this newsgroup, that does
not make their discussions of illegal behavior 'right'.
"You are in no position to tell anyone what is right. What is good for
you is not good enough for me. What really chaps you is no control. You
have an ego and control problem and can't do anything about it. You
thought that nocode ticket was going to get you royal subjects among the
cbers. Man, were you wrong. The cbers here all put your type to shame.
Most people here I have found to be decent individuals. You have
problems that you project onto others resulting in you being an ugly,
ugly, human being.."
They do not represent the majority of people to whom these laws apply,
but are only a small minority in that respect. While I make no claims to
be representative of the public majority, I do not see any reason to
compromise the content
of my posts simply because my opinions are not shared by this
newsgroup's majority.
If someone doesn't like my posts, they don't have to read them. Consider
that most newsreaders have filters. For that reason, I only post with my
email at the top.
"Yea, you have posted with the home.com, home.net, supernews, ynn, then
lied about it all."
Once in a while I will change my header to get through someone's filter,
but not often.
"Do tell."
Regardless, if you look at the posts as of late, most of the spam and
profanity is coming from the "keyclowns", not the "anti's". Also
consider that we
"Damn, that great concern for everyone but you. Gee, how to thoughtful."
all have to wade through the posts to find the ones of interest. That's
just the way some newsgroups work.
Most ISP's address newsgroup behavior in their TOS.
"LOL, you know all about that."
One of the common phrases regarding trolls is "it takes two to tango".
In other words, don't lay any blame on Voobner, Doug, Leland, or any
other "anti" without laying equal blame on those that respond to them.
"Ha! Another thinly, albeit poorly disguised attempt at telling people
what they should do, hahaha. You are entertaining."
I haven't seen any posts asking any of the "keyclowns" for some sort of
compromise...
"Nothing to compromise. You pals sling it, it's coming home to roost."
============
From: twist...@webtv.net (twist...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Hams Aren't The Problem (was: What a group!)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
Date: 2001-01-08 11:46:17 PST
No high horse, here. Don't need it. I do the word barefoot just
fine, thank you. You say one thing, but the gist of the matter of late
is you either obey all the rules or you're a criminal. And I'm gonna
shoot that full of holes every time it comes up with some real merit and
substance, the same goes for talking above or below 40 if it ain't on
the hammie bands, quit yer belleyachin'! If your sole argument is
splatter boxes, say so. If yer of the mindset of some of our shakier
resident boobs, thats cool, too, but it is meritless.
Assumption #1: It is not my job to enforce the law.
Bert Craig
I don't understand what this means. Are you saying that Aaron, Train, and
Sparky are all the same author? I don't get it. Please advise, thanks.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
>yup read you own post frank. i like the one at the bottom
>that i found.
>
>
>From: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Sender: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Reply-To: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Subject: Re: Busting FAGGOT KEYCLOWNS
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
>X-User-Info: 64.12.102.33 64.12.102.33
>References: <3acb734c$1...@news2.mibx.net> <20010406034600.22545.00004571@ng-
>md1.aol.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.132.39
>Message-ID: <3acd74d3$1...@news2.mibx.net>
>Date: 6 Apr 2001 08:48:35 GMT
>X-Trace: 6 Apr 2001 08:48:35 GMT, 206.53.132.39
>Lines: 12
>
>From: "KEYCLOW...@twistedhedzaFAGGOT.com"
><KEYCLOW...@twistdhedzaFAG.com>
>Sender: "KEYCLOW...@twistedhedzaFAGGOT.com"
><KEYCLOW...@twistdhedzaFAG.com>
>Reply-To: "KEYCLOW...@twistedhedzaFAGGOT.com"
><KEYCLOW...@twistdhedzaFAG.com>
>Subject: Re: Cuckles
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
>X-User-Info: 38.31.209.205 38.31.209.205
>References: <3ACC633B...@spam.me.not>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.132.39
>Message-ID: <3acd8118$1...@news2.mibx.net>
>Date: 6 Apr 2001 09:40:56 GMT
>X-Trace: 6 Apr 2001 09:40:56 GMT, 206.53.132.39
>Lines: 16
>
>From: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Sender: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Reply-To: "Mr. Aaron H. Voobner" <aaronv...@my-deja.com>
>Subject: Re: It's Not Just Twistedhed
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
>X-User-Info: 64.12.102.33 64.12.102.33
>References: <9ag01g$i02$1...@news.netmar.com> <dofz6.5536
>$Q15.9...@news02.optonline.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.53.132.39
>Message-ID: <3acd83d3$1...@news2.mibx.net>
>Date: 6 Apr 2001 09:52:35 GMT
>X-Trace: 6 Apr 2001 09:52:35 GMT, 206.53.132.39
>Lines: 24
>
>
>152.163.207.203
>152.163.201.62
>152.163.201.51
>207.155.223.83
>152.163.194.213
>205.188.198.163
>207.155.223.66
>
>24.131.233.143
>24.43.19.250
>24.180.184.171
>24.43.19.250
>24.182.7.188
>24.180.184.171
>24.180.184.171
>spider-tr082
>
>38.31.209.206
>
>152.163.204.203
>
>Groups search result 282 for author:sparky
>
>
>Search Result 282
>From: Sparky (spark...@hotmail.com)Subject: REQ daisysroom.com
>Newsgroups: alt.sex.passwords(This is the only article in this thread)
>Date: 2001-05-23 17:12:02 PST
>
>Looking for a pass to this one.
>http://daisysroom.com/members/frames.html
>
>Thanks!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bert Craig
>Hi Twistedhed,
Sorry Twistedhed,
I thought this was from you but upon reviewing it I see that it's from "What a
Crock!" sparkles...@cotse.com, whoever that is. This is all very
confusing.
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
Richard McCollum
on your newsreader to simply block cotse and other public urinals.
Dick NØBK
"Bert Craig" <kc2...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010707151910...@ng-ck1.news.cs.com...
Frank Gilliland
(Twistedhed) wrote:
>RF pirates affect my work directly. Regardless, the motivations are
>irrelavent if the argument is valid.
><snip>
>=A0=A0Like I said, freebanders and what you describe as "keyclowns" have
>been around as long as CB has existed. In the words of George Carlin,
>"The earth's <band's> not going anywhere...we are folks!" Give it some
>thought. You make a well thought out statement but it doesn't actually
>seem to be lessening the problem, quite the opposite. Take it easy.
>73 de Bert
>KC2HMN
>
>RF piracy, by that or any other name, is theft of public property,
>
>"Whaaaa? Public property? The spectrum now belongs to the public, huh?
>Of which country?"
It's funny how someone else can read my post, understand it, and reply
with a concise and intelligent post of their own. You, OTOH, must tear
apart my posts word-by-word. Didn't you say something earlier about
'obsession'?
Frank Gilliland
>Hi Twistedhed,
>
>I don't understand what this means. Are you saying that Aaron, Train, and
>Sparky are all the same author? I don't get it. Please advise, thanks.
>
>73 de Bert
>KC2HMN
Ignore them, Bert. Those idiots do not have a clear grasp on reality.
Twistie thinks I am Leland, Doug, Voobner, Glenn Sparks, and several
other Frank Gillilands, including N7VCF. They have posted four
different phone numbers saying each one is mine, and telling others to
call because they don't have the balls to call themselves. I don't
mind at all because it is such a wonderful demonstration of the
keyclown mentality. If that's how they want to represent the
'freebanders', that's fine with me.
Frank Gilliland
we knew it was you all along -- only YOU could be THAT obsessed with
ME! ROTFLMAO!!!!
On Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:43:57 -0400 (EDT), twist...@webtv.net
(Twistedhed) wrote:
============
Tim
>They have posted four
>different phone numbers saying each one is mine,
73 de Tim
Knight Patrol #82
WARNING:
No Code Amateurs Douglas Adair N8WWM and Leland C Scott KC8LDO Have Been
Forging My Email Address While Posting To Several Web Sites And News Groups.
Just Do As I Do And Ignore Them.
Bert Craig
>on your newsreader to simply block cotse and other public urinals.
>
>Dick NØBK
Thanks Dick,
I had wanted to ask what cotse was but I infer from your post that it's a deja
type service, correct?
73 de Bert
KC2HMN
Frank Gilliland
>you verified which one was yours yourself.
That's funny, Tim. I use five phone numbers, and none of them have
appeared anywhere in a newsgroup. So which one did I allegedly verify
as mine?
Tim
looking it up and reposting it you can do that yourself or anybody interesting
in seeing it can.
>
>That's funny, Tim. I use five phone numbers, and none of them have
>appeared anywhere in a newsgroup. So which one did I allegedly verify
>as mine?
>
Richard McCollum
You got it. Cotse was where your bozo came from. There are others but they
can be added as needed to the original rule. Joy and happiness will reign
supreme until you get cold feet watching your reader turn half of the days
postings into nothingness.
I have yet to see anything from xg.nu, cotse.com, or newsranger be worth the
sweat from one's testicles.
Dick, Beer Keg
Sleepless in Billings
>remember the post where you ranted because it was posted? i do. as far as
>looking it up and reposting it you can do that yourself or anybody interesting
>in seeing it can.
Do you mean this one where you posted some number in Massachusetts?
>Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
>From: spa...@cet.com (Frank Gilliland)
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb
>Subject: Re: 508-749-9944
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:31:39 GMT
>Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
>Message-ID: <3b31bbd7...@news.cet.com>
>References: <20010620165716...@ng-mo1.aol.com>
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235
>X-Complaints-To: news...@supernews.com
>Lines: 27
>Xref: sn-us rec.radio.cb:262477
>
>On 20 Jun 2001 20:57:16 GMT, tim...@aol.comLOL (Tim) wrote:
>
>>.
>> 73 de Tim
>> Knight Patrol #82
>>
>>WARNING:
>>No Code Amateurs Douglas Adair N8WWM and Leland C Scott KC8LDO Have Been
>>Forging My Email Address While Posting To Several Web Sites And News Groups.
>>Just Do As I Do And Ignore Them.
>
>You're kidding me, right? You idiots are like a Monty Python sketch:
>You sure talk big, but your actions drop to the grade-school-level
>prank of calling someone in the middle of the night. But you don't
>even do it yourself, you post my number in hopes that someone else has
>the balls to call it. What a bunch of pussies. Even if it was the
>right number, do you really think that nobody knows how to do a call
>trace? It automatically forwards the trace info to the respective
>law-enforcement agencies. So not only are you a bunch of pussies, you
>are a bunch of stupid pussies. But once more, wouldn't it be so easy
>to just spend a couple bucks to call the County Assessor's office and
>get my full name and address, as well as a list of properties I own?
>Nah, that would be too expensive and take too much energy. So you are
>stupid, poor, lazy pussies that have nothing better to do than to play
>grade-school pranks. Are you actually trying to intimidate somebody
>here? It ain't working, I'm laughing my head off! Leave the talk to
>the real men and go play with your toys, little boys.
I remember the post fine. I wasn't ranting -- I was laughing!!! It's
even funnier now that I see you didn't have the balls to put a name
with the number. Then you posted N7VCF's number the same way. Was that
just another number you happened to pull randomly out of a hat? Or did
you just use 'the force'? LMFAO!!!!
Prozacholic
up your claim. If thats the case don't bring anything up because no one will
believe you.
"Tim" <tim...@aol.comLOL> wrote in message
news:20010707223340...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
Train
one of you shreds of human debris actually took the time or and the
intellectual fortitude to even straight out ASK ME what my reasons for what
I do might be. Try it sometime and you might be surprised to find out!
"Aaron H. Voobner" <voo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fbc7a2.010706...@posting.google.com...
Frank Gilliland
wrote:
>I don't understand why you folks are so intent on speculating my intent. Not
>one of you shreds of human debris actually took the time or and the
>intellectual fortitude to even straight out ASK ME what my reasons for what
>I do might be. Try it sometime and you might be surprised to find out!
Go for it, train. I'm always interested in hearing another bogus
justification for breaking laws.
Aaron H. Voobner
> I don't understand why you folks are so intent on speculating my intent. Not
> one of you shreds of human debris actually took the time or and the
> intellectual fortitude to even straight out ASK ME what my reasons for what
> I do might be. Try it sometime and you might be surprised to find out!
>
> --
> Train
> tr...@aol.com
> cbm...@optonline.com
> tr...@cbmods.com
OK Train. Sorry for all the speculation regarding your intent, but
your posts seem to leave little doubt as to what your intent is. I'd
say they spell it out very clearly.
-Aaron-
==========================================
--
Train
tr...@aol.com
cbm...@optonline.com
tr...@cbmods.com
===================================
=============================
Twistedhed
OK Train. Sorry for all the speculation regarding your intent, but your
posts seem to leave little doubt as to what your intent is. I'd say they
spell it out very clearly.
"Yep. They prove you don't have the control that you wish you did."