What is the unforgivable sin?
Harold Kupp
Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never
forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mark 3:29
What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
In the book of Numbers, there are two kinds of sin. Sins
of ignorance which can be forgiven, and presumptuous sin which
cannot be forgiven.
Sins of ignorance can be forgiven because they do not involve
rebellion. Presumptuous sin is always rebellion because it is sin
committed with knowledge that the act is wrong.
SINS OF IGNORANCE (These were forgiven)
Numbers 15:27 And if any soul sin through IGNORANCE, ....And
the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that SINNETH
IGNORANTLY, .... and it shall be forgiven him.
SINS OF PRESUMPTION (Not forgiven)
Numbers 15:30 BUT the soul that doeth aught
PRESUMPTUOUSLY, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger,
the same reproacheth [blasphemeth] the Lord; and that soul shall be
cut off from among his people.
15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath
broken his commandment, that soul shall be utterly cut off; his
iniquity
shall be upon him."
What if deliberately committing sin IS to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
In the Numbers text above where it says that presumptuous sin is to
reproach the Lord, the Hebrew word for reproacheth is:
1442 gadaph, a primitive root; to hack (with words), i.e. revile:
KJV-- BLASPHEME, reproach.
EVERY OTHER TIME this word is used, the KJV translates it as
BLASPHEMED or BLASPHEMETH.
For example: Ezek 20:27
" Therefore, son of man, speak unto the house of Israel, and say unto
them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Yet in this your fathers have
BLASPHEMED (1442) in that they have committed a trespass
against me.
As you can see, they "committed a trespass" and "blasphemed the
Lord. To sin presumptuously is to blaspheme the Lord.
Now please bear with me as I expand that idea further. When one
commits "wilfull sin" does one blaspheme the Holy Spirit"? I know you
are very familiar with the following passage...
Heb 10:26-29
26 For if we *sin wilfully* after that we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that DESPISED Moses' law died without mercy under two
or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought
worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted
the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing,
and HATH DONE DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace?
In the Numbers passage above it is clear that to sin presumptuously
(wilfully) is to blaspheme the Lord. In the Hebrews passage the wilful
sin is committed against the direct teaching of the indwelling Holy
Spirit
(Spirit of Grace) by those who are "sanctified" . Is this willful sin
blasphemy?
Notice that the phrase "hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace" is
directly compared to "despising Moses' Law (verse :27 above) In the
OT those who sinned presumptuously despised Moses' Law and
blasphemed the Lord.
In the NT, those who are born of God and sin presumptuously despise
the indwelling Spirit of Grace. The term "hath done despite" is from the
Greek:
2662 katapateo-
1) to tread down, to trample underfoot, to trample on
2) metaphorically, to treat with rudeness and insult,
to spurn, to treat with insulting neglect
If one who is born of God has truly repented of committing sin
(chosen to cease from sin) and then deliberately commits sin he has
despised the Holy Spirit, just as the OT the Israelites despised the Law
of God. It is
blasphemy!
The Peshitta Text (Aramaic) of the New Testament confirms this fact
by translating Hebrews 10:29 in this way:
"How much more punishment do you think he will receive who has
trodden underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of
His covenant through which he had been sanctified as ordinary blood
and has BLASPHEMED the Spirit of Grace."
Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts -
Lamsa
KJ Version "...done despite unto the Spirit of Grace"
Aramaic Text "...blasphemed the Spirit of Grace
Only the one "born of God" - who has received the indwelling Spirit of
God upon repentance - is able to blaspheme the Spirit who "writes the
law on their hearts." If he does, there remains for such a one only "a
certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which
shall
devour the adversaries."
I pray that the reader who disagrees will lay this before the Lord with
an open mind.
God bless,
Harold Kupp
Phil
On 30 Jan 1997 20:31:44 GMT, Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
> Mark 3:29
Jesus gives even more detail as to what it actually is in Luke 12.
>What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
I think it means to prevent God from speaking through you as He did on
Pentecost.
> SINS OF PRESUMPTION (Not forgiven)
>
> Numbers 15:30 BUT the soul that doeth aught
> PRESUMPTUOUSLY, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger,
> the same reproacheth [blasphemeth] the Lord; and that soul shall be
> cut off from among his people.
I don't believe that means that soul is unsalvagable by Jesus Christ.
> What if deliberately committing sin IS to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
I suppose any sin is blasphemy in a sense, but a deliberate sin is not
unforgivable. It's not good by any means to deliberately sin.
>In the Numbers text above where it says that presumptuous sin is to
>reproach the Lord, the Hebrew word for reproacheth is:
The word "presumptously" means with a high hand. As if beligerent and
does not care about God's laws.
>Heb 10:26-29
>26 For if we *sin wilfully* after that we have received the
>knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
>27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
>indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
>28 He that DESPISED Moses' law died without mercy under two
>or three witnesses:
>29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought
>worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted
>the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing,
>and HATH DONE DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace?
All these verses simply mean is: That if you know that the blood and
sacrificial ordinances were nailed to the cross, going back to those
ordinances is the same as despising the law given by Moses and
trodding underfoot the Son of God and counting that sacrifice on the
cross as nothing and make it unholy. In that you despise the grace of
God.
-Phil
*************
http://www.execpc.com/~pnajera/tgsmain.html
*************
In that day (the Lord's Day) shall the deaf
hear the words of the book, and the eyes of
the blind (spiritually) shall see out of
obscurity, and out of darkness.
Isaiah 29:18
Michael Gooding
>
> >What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
>
I'm sorry I missed most of this thread. Mark adds a note in verse 30:
"He said this because they were saying, 'He has an evil spirit.'" In
other words, they were attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the
devil. They could not deny that Jesus was performing wonderful
miracles. But because of the hardness of their own hearts, they were
unwilling to believe that it was God who was at work. So they came up
with an alternate explanation - it's the Devil! This, then, is the sin
of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit: attributing to the devil a work of
the Holy Spirit. Is this relevant to us today? You betcha!
--
Michael
"If you cannot defeat your opponent's argument with reason,
all is not lost; you can still call him vile names."
Chèré L. Perrigo
Phil wrote:
>
> On 30 Jan 1997 20:31:44 GMT, Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>
> >Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
> > Mark 3:29
>
> Jesus gives even more detail as to what it actually is in Luke 12.
>
>
The unforgivable sin: Matt.12:31,32, "Wherefore I say unto you,
Allmanner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the
blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.And
whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven
him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be
forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Heb.10:26, "For if we sin willfuly after we have received the knowledge
of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin." Blasphemy is
described as this: Mark 2:7, "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies?
who can forgive sins but God only?" Luke 5:21, "And the scribes and
Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh
blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God only?" John 10:33, "The Jews
answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
blasphemy; and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God."
Blasphemy is claiming to forgive sins & putting yourself equal to God.
Sounds like a church I know.
chere
Robert Riddell
Israel commited the unforgiveable sin when they rejected God the Holy Spirit
They rejected the Father in the OT Read Samuel, when they wanted
a king, they rejected the son when they didn't want him as king, and they
rejected the Holy Spirit in the Acts period . A Christian cannot
commit the unforgiveable sin as it does not apply to him.
Robbie
fat...@aol.com
On 30 Jan 1997 20:31:44 GMT, Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
> Mark 3:29
The unforgivenable sin is as Harold rightly later said is to
blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
>What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
Good question. As I understand it, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is
to willing, knowingly and intentionally speak our act directly against the
Holy Spirit. What does that mean you may well ask. Well, there are several
possibilities all of which are most likely true.
Fistly, take a look at what context the verses in Mark 3,Luke 12 and
Matthew 12 come. Jesus mentions this in response to the pharisees claiming
that the spirit within Jesus was demonic and not the Holy Spirit,
certainly not of God. And do Jesus replies with these strong verses. So to
blaspheme the Holy Spirit may be to insult Him by calling Him demonic and
not of God which most certainly is a very serious blasphemy indeed.
Secondly, and following on from the first in a more subtle way. I
have been told by many people that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when an
unbeliever (note this) consistently refuses the promptings of the Holy
Spirit to become a Christian. Remember God said in Genesis 6:3
"..My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed
flesh;"
This gives the idea that the Spirit will not always be there for the
unbeliever to turn to. This is the experience of so many who refuse God
early in life and hope to save their soul on their death bed with a quick
prayer or to. This doesn't happen as on their death bed there is no
prompting of the Spirit to guide them to Christ - their hearts are
hardened. In effect they have commited the unforgivenable sin because they
basically told the Holy Spirit to go away and so they will not again be
given the chance of salvation and so therefore can't acheive forgiveness.
This may sound unfair (if anyone wants information about why this and
also predestination is not unfair feel free to email me) but remember
this, a believer can not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. How can someone who
claims to love God with all their heart speak against that same God? Also
the unbeliever has got his wish (freedom from the Spirit's "naggings") and
he/she wont care anyway as they wont be worried about their salvation (It
takes the Holy Spirit to so that!).
I hope this is of some help.
In Christ, Andrew
Joseph Dunn
Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
> "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never
> forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
>
> Mark 3:29
>What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
All you have to do is to read the next verse, Mark 3:30, to find your
answer. The detractors of Jesus were attributing the work of the Holy
Spirit to demons--thus telling a lie about Him (the Spirit) and
demonstrating that their sin had progressed to the point where they
could not tell the difference between the working of God and the
working of demons.
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Joe Dunn
Julian Fitzherbert
In article <5d83up$a...@netsrv2.spss.com>, "Chèré L. Perrigo" <cra...@enaila.nidlink.com> writes:
>Phil wrote:
>>
>> On 30 Jan 1997 20:31:44 GMT, Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
[big snip]
The unforgiveable sin is not accepting Christ as Saviour. All sins can
be (are) forgiven if you accept him. It's as simple as that.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matt 12v31) is basically calling God a liar
by rejecting Jesus as the only way back to God. Remember that God is a Trinity.
Even after years of rejecting Jesus you can turn to him and be saved but if
you die an unbeliever then you are a goner. You have committed the unforgivable
sin of not accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour.
Acts 16v31 "Beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,
you and your whole household." (Thats all it takes).
Bart Goddard
Joseph Dunn wrote:
> >What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
>
> All you have to do is to read the next verse, Mark 3:30, to find your
> answer. The detractors of Jesus were attributing the work of the Holy
> Spirit to demons--thus telling a lie about Him (the Spirit) and
> demonstrating that their sin had progressed to the point where they
> could not tell the difference between the working of God and the
> working of demons.
I would go even further (and along a different tack), and
say that they COULD tell the difference and that in this
case the KNEW the difference, and lied about Jesus anyway.
I think the unforgivable sin is to reject the truth knowing it
to be the truth. They had proof positive, and chose the lie
anyway.
Bart
Fr oG
Ch=E8r=E9 L. Perrigo wrote:
> Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh
> blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God only?" John 10:33, "The Jews
> answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for
> blasphemy; and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God."
> Blasphemy is claiming to forgive sins & putting yourself equal to God.
> Sounds like a church I know.
> chereDear chere,
Very nice post... thanks! I would lift up also that blasphemy=20
against the Spirit can also be understood to be: "claiming that=20
forgiveness comes by any other means except by the indwelling of the=20
Spirit, which then causes us to believe in Christ". To speak of anything=20
that humanity must do in order to secure forgiveness of sin is a=20
blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Thanks again for your post and Scriptural verses you lifted up.
Peace,
Fr oG
andre michaud
Hello Chere:
On the other hand, one might look at it from a different
point of view and identify that Jesus was accused of healing
by the power of Satan, when actually it was through the Holy
Spirit.
Many people do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church,
and this would not be considered an unforgivable sin; however,
there are those who claim that the Church of Rome is the seat
of Antichrist, the Catholic Church, as a harlet.
My question is: If the Catholic Church is truly guided by the
Holy Spirit, would not calling this Church a harlet be the
unforgivable sin?
God loves you
Andre
alouicious
Bart Goddard <mat...@etsu.edu> wrote in article
<5db2tu$3...@netsrv2.spss.com>...
: Joseph Dunn wrote:
:
: > >What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
: >
: > All you have to do is to read the next verse, Mark 3:30, to find your
: > answer. The detractors of Jesus were attributing the work of the Holy
: > Spirit to demons--thus telling a lie about Him (the Spirit) and
: > demonstrating that their sin had progressed to the point where they
: > could not tell the difference between the working of God and the
: > working of demons.
:
here's what I think..
LUKE 12:10
10 "And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be
forgiven him. but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will
not be forgiven"
(It is here that you wander, when will this sin come into play?)
11 "now WHEN they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and
authorities, do not worry how or what you should answer, or what you should
say."
(it is during the hour of temptation, when Gods elect will be delivered up
before the antichrist) see mark 13:9-12 (in mark 13:12, you will read that
these elect will be delivered unto death. read Heb 2:14- this will explain
who "death" is.)
12 "For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to
say."
(to deny the Holy Spirit to speak through you, as a testimony to the
nations (mark 13:10) at this time, standing before this world system and
it's leader, the antichrist himself, will be an unforgivable act.)
as of yet, no one could have commited this sin.
apatr...@aol.com
In article <5d82e7$9...@netsrv2.spss.com>, rrid...@zetnet.co.uk (Robert
Riddell) writes:
>Subject: Re: What is the unforgivable sin?
>From: rrid...@zetnet.co.uk (Robert Riddell)
>Date: 4 Feb 1997 19:24:55 GMT
**Why do you feel that Israel's sin was unforgiveable? An unforgiveable
sin suggests that there is no forgiveness, but none of the scriptures you
quote mentions that God was/is not willing to forgive. Could you expand
upon this idea you have?
Anthony.
(APatr...@aol.com).
"Secret, steadfast, ever-growing affection of the soul, let that have the
first place, in practical reality, and there will be no drifting or
decline."
action 4u
In article <5dg9q2$m...@netsrv2.spss.com>, nospamd...@greenapple.com
says...
believe that Mt. 12:30, tells us also gives us a hint as to what blaspheme is
also, which suggests it is a refusal of accepting the Lord as Savior, thus
being totally against Jesus Christ thus hardening ones heart as others have
suggested.
Agape,
Sandy
action 4u
In article <5dd3ha$a...@netsrv2.spss.com>, mi...@cwconnect.ca says...
Dear Andre,
Certainly not! Unless the Catholic Church should be regarded as higher than
Jesus Christ.
Mt. 12:31-32 says, Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy
shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not
be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man it
shall be foregiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it
shall not be foregiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to
come."
Agape,
Sandy
Rita E. Bauschard
alouicious <nospamd...@greenapple.com> wrote in article
<5dg9q2$m...@netsrv2.spss.com>...
>
>
> Bart Goddard <mat...@etsu.edu> wrote in article
> <5db2tu$3...@netsrv2.spss.com>...
> : Joseph Dunn wrote:
> :
> : > >What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
> : >
> : > All you have to do is to read the next verse, Mark 3:30, to find your
> : > answer. The detractors of Jesus were attributing the work of the
Holy
> : > Spirit to demons--thus telling a lie about Him (the Spirit) and
> : > demonstrating that their sin had progressed to the point where they
> : > could not tell the difference between the working of God and the
> : > working of demons.
> :
> here's what I think..
Snip . . . .
>
> (to deny the Holy Spirit to speak through you, as a testimony to the
> nations (mark 13:10) at this time, standing before this world system and
> it's leader, the antichrist himself, will be an unforgivable act.)
>
> as of yet, no one could have commited this sin.
Ah, but someone HAS commited this sin.
One needs to first understand that when Christ came to earth to minister
the "good news", he came to minister only to the "lost sheep of the house
of Israel." Matt. 15:24 So much so, that when the woman of Canaan, a
Gentile, came unto Him to ask that her daughter be delivered of a devil,
He ignored her. Vs. 23 - "But he answered her not a word."
Imagine that. The Lord Jesus Christ - ignoring someone in need.
But Jesus Christ had been in a meeting in Heaven before coming to earth.
In that meeting it was determined that He would come "to the Jews only."
And as he prepared the twelve apostles, he prepared them in the same way,
teaching them - Matt. 10:5 -
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and COMMANDED them, saying,
GO NOT into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans
enter ye NOT;
"But go RATHER to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils, ",
etc.
All of those things he told them to do were signs of the earthly kingdom.
(which, by the way, is not here yet).
And he (and they) preached that kingdom to Israel. . . who rejected it.
All except the
Little Flock of Jewish believers.
What does this have to do with the unforgivable sin? Blasphemy of the
Holy Spirit?
When Israel rejected her Messiah, she rejected (and certainly blasphemed
against) the second person of the Godhead. . . Jesus Christ.
When Israel failed to keep the Law in the Old Testament under that OLD
Covenant,
she rejected God, the Father.
And when Israel refused to hear and rejected the words spoken by Stephen
(Acts 6:8
through Acts 7), it was the final rejection of the Holy Spirit (See verse
7:55) Act. 7:51
blasphemy.
It was the unforgiveable sin. And God will judge it as his word is
faithful and true. Yet,
God set those specially chosen people - the nation - aside.
God could have right then and there brought forth His judgment for their
great sin.
Instead, God brought forth his secret plan. He saved a murderer of
Christians - a well trained
and well paid Jew as he was on his way to kill more believers. And to this
man, Saul, now
Paul, God revealed the rest of his secret plan. He would not immediately
bring forth his
anger against Israel. He would give them more time to repent - but now as
individuals rather
than as a nation. They would have the same opportunity as any Gentile
would, to whom God
was now sending Paul to preach the gospel of grace. Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ and
ye shall be saved. The offer is given to you and to your whole household.
Everyone has the
same opportunity.
Until - the fulness of the Gentiles. Romans 11:25
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was the unforgivable sin - commited by
Israel. Since then,
Christ has gone to the cross of Calvary to bear the sins of all mankind so
that ALL men could be
saved, by believing that... He - as God - became the perfect lamb of God -
the perfect specimen
for sacrifice, paying the price I deserved to pay for my sinfulness.
Making all sins forgiveable.
Thank you, LORD!
Rita, an Ambassador for Christ 2 Cor. 5:20
Dieter Hnatek
> What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"? <
First I will give a summary of the opinions that have already
been posted:
OPINION AUTHOR MESSAGE
1. When somebody after being born again from God
deliberately sins.
<hk...@harborside.com>
<5cr0fg$c...@netsrv2.spss.com>
2. To prevent God from speaking through you as He did on
Pentecost.
3. To despise the grace of God by seeking one's
rightousness in the law.
<pna...@execpc.com>
<5d50r6$2...@netsrv2.spss.com>
4. When Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit; does not
apply to Christians.
<rrid...@zetnet.co.uk>
<5d82e7$9...@netsrv2.spss.com>
5. claiming to forgive sins & putting yourself equal to God.
<cra...@enaila.nidlink.com>
<5d83up$a...@netsrv2.spss.com>
6. When an unbeliever consistently refuses the promptings
of the Holy Spirit to become a Christian.
<fat...@aol.com>
<5da6lm$h...@netsrv2.spss.com>
7. Attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to demons.
<jed...@erols.com>
<5dae5u$j...@netsrv2.spss.com>
8. Not accepting Christ as Saviour.
<jul...@gatwick.Geco-prakla.slb.com>
<5daepl$j...@netsrv2.spss.com>
9. Claiming that forgiveness comes by any other means except
by the indwelling of the Spirit, which then causes us to
believe in Christ.
<rl...@netins.net>
<5db2tk$3...@netsrv2.spss.com>
10. Attributing to the devil a work of the Holy Spirit
<mgoo...@wolfenet.com>
<5d83hf$a...@netsrv2.spss.com>
11. To deny the Holy Spirit to speak through you, as a
testimony to the nations, when God's elect will be
delivered up before the antichrist; as of yet, no one
could have committed this sin.
<nospamd...@greenapple.com>
<5dg9q2$m...@netsrv2.spss.com>
When looking at this diversity of answers one certainly
gets the impression that not all of this can be "rightly
dividing the Word of Truth". Note especially that three
different groups of people are accused of committing the
unforgivable sin: namely the Jews, the unbelievers and the
Christians. Note also that some say the unforgivable sin
is no longer applicable while others say it will only be
committed in the future.
Now I will show you what I have been taught:
The following scriptures define the "blasphemy against the
holy spirit" as the unforgivable sin:
Matthew 12:31,32 Mark 3:28,29 Luke 12:10
Genesis 3:15, where God was speaking to the Serpent, shows
that two different spiritual seeds are in existence:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and
between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.
While this verse speaks about the seed of the woman, which
is the first prophecy about the Saviour Jesus Christ, it
also speaks about the seed of the Serpent.
For a man who has been naturally born, it is available to
be born again spiritually. He may accept Jesus Christ as
Lord according to Romans 10:9 and be born again from the
true God (1Peter 1:23). Or he may accept the Devil as his
god and be born again by the seed of the serpent. There is
also a third choice for natural man, and that is to never
make one of the above decisions.
The seed nature of the spiritual birth is the key for
understanding the unforgivable sin. Somebody who has been
born again from the true God by accepting Jesus Christ as
Lord cannot lose the spirit which has been born into him;
he is born to eternal life. Equally, somebody who is bron
from the seed of the Devil, cannot lose the Devil's spirit
any more; he is born to eternal death.
There is one additional analogy: By renewing his mind
the born-again Christian is able to manifest the love of
God which is spiritually in him. The only thing that a
son of the Devil will manifest is the hatred of the Devil.
The passage of John 8:13-44 is an account of a dialog
between the Lord Jesus Christ and some Pharisees who were
born by the seed of the Devil. I suggest that you read
through it. I will only show you some of the key verses.
23 And he said unto them,
Ye are from beneath; I am from above:
ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
The Pharisees were "of this world".
The god of this world is the Devil (2Corinthians 4:4).
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed;
but ye seek to kill me,
because my word hath no place in you.
They were Abraham's seed by natural birth.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father:
and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Two different fathers are distinguished here.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father.
Then said they to him,
We be not born of fornication;
we have one Father, [even] God.
They just forgot to mention, which god.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil,
and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Here Jesus finally stated it openly: Their father
was the Devil. They were born again by the seed of
the Serpent. They had committed the unforgivable sin.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Dieter Hnatek *
* Kaigasse 20 *
* A-5020 Salzburg *
* AUSTRIA *
* Phone: +43 662 849453 *
* mailto:hna...@ping.at *
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Coach Dave
Andre
> My question is: If the Catholic Church is truly guided by the
> Holy Spirit, would not calling this Church a harlet [sic] be the
> unforgivable sin?
You were right in your statement that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
taking the works of God and attributing them to demons or to Satan.
But, the Catholic Church is guided by the Pope who sometimes, but not
always, is being guided by the Holy Spirit. Also, there is a big
difference between calling something a harlot and saying it is demonic.
It surprises me how blinded people are to the prophecy in Rev. 17 and
elsewhere about the harlot and the church at Rome. I believe (doesn't mean
I'm right, though) that the Harlot of Rev. 17 is what's left of the
Catholic church AFTER the believers are raptured out. Of course, I
understand that that's a peculiar doctrine since the Catholic Church
doesn't support a pre-trib rapture. Guess we'll explain it to 'em on the
way up. :)
God Bless,
Dave
Chris Bolton
Harold Kupp <hk...@harborside.com> wrote:
>Jesus said that there is a sin which can never be forgiven...
> "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never
> forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
>
> Mark 3:29
>What does it mean to "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"?
> In the book of Numbers, there are two kinds of sin. Sins
>of ignorance which can be forgiven, and presumptuous sin which
>cannot be forgiven.
> Sins of ignorance can be forgiven because they do not involve
>rebellion. Presumptuous sin is always rebellion because it is sin
>committed with knowledge that the act is wrong.
> SINS OF IGNORANCE (These were forgiven)
> Numbers 15:27 And if any soul sin through IGNORANCE, ....And
> the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that SINNETH
> IGNORANTLY, .... and it shall be forgiven him.
> SINS OF PRESUMPTION (Not forgiven)
> Numbers 15:30 BUT the soul that doeth aught
> PRESUMPTUOUSLY, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger,
> the same reproacheth [blasphemeth] the Lord; and that soul shall be
> cut off from among his people.
> 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath
> broken his commandment, that soul shall be utterly cut off; his
>iniquity
> shall be upon him."
> What if deliberately committing sin IS to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
>In the Numbers text above where it says that presumptuous sin is to
>reproach the Lord, the Hebrew word for reproacheth is:
>1442 gadaph, a primitive root; to hack (with words), i.e. revile:
> KJV-- BLASPHEME, reproach.
>EVERY OTHER TIME this word is used, the KJV translates it as
>BLASPHEMED or BLASPHEMETH.
>For example: Ezek 20:27
> " Therefore, son of man, speak unto the house of Israel, and say unto
> them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Yet in this your fathers have
> BLASPHEMED (1442) in that they have committed a trespass
> against me.
> As you can see, they "committed a trespass" and "blasphemed the
>Lord. To sin presumptuously is to blaspheme the Lord.
>Now please bear with me as I expand that idea further. When one
>commits "wilfull sin" does one blaspheme the Holy Spirit"? I know you
>are very familiar with the following passage...
>Heb 10:26-29
>26 For if we *sin wilfully* after that we have received the
>knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
>27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
>indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
>28 He that DESPISED Moses' law died without mercy under two
>or three witnesses:
>29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought
>worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted
>the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing,
>and HATH DONE DESPITE unto the Spirit of grace?
>In the Numbers passage above it is clear that to sin presumptuously
>2662 katapateo-
>law on their hearts." If he does, there remains for such a one only "a
>certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which
>shall
>devour the adversaries."
>I pray that the reader who disagrees will lay this before the Lord with
>an open mind.
>God bless,
>Harold Kupp
The bottom line on the Sin Agaisnt the Holy Ghost is that it is
denying the born again experience / indwelling of the spirit. It
therefore can only be committed by spirit filled believers. See my
essay on it at http://www.inficad.com/~cbolton/secure.html
I would appreciate your feedback.
Chris Bolton
Those who cherish freedom do not need to flame those who don't; We
can though, through our questions and logic, help them to self-immolate.
cbo...@inficad.com (E-Mail)
http://www.inficad.com/~cbolton/ (Home Page URL)
andre michaud
Hello Sandy:
you wrote:
>Dear Andre,
>
>Certainly not! Unless the Catholic Church should be regarded as higher than
>Jesus Christ.
>
>Mt. 12:31-32 says, Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy
>shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not
>be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man it
>shall be foregiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it
>shall not be foregiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to
>come."
>
>Agape,
>Sandy
Sandy, if the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit,and,
if the infallability is truly present within this Church, how can
you claim that calling this Church a harlot not blasphamy against
the Holy Spirit; and if it is not, then, what do you consider to
be blasphemy against Him?
God loves you
Andre
andre michaud
Hello Sandy:
you wrote:
>I definitely believe that committing what Heb. 6:4-6 says is blaspheme, I also
>believe that Mt. 12:30, tells us also gives us a hint as to what blaspheme is
>also, which suggests it is a refusal of accepting the Lord as Savior, thus
>being totally against Jesus Christ thus hardening ones heart as others have
>suggested.
>
>Agape,
>Sandy
>
And therefore you claim that "only christians" can be saved?
What do you consider to be the lot of those who had never heard
of Christianity?
Dieter Hnatek
Reference: <5do74k$4...@netsrv2.spss.com>
Rita E. Bauschard wrote:
> When Israel failed to keep the Law in the Old Testament
> under that OLD Covenant, she rejected God, the Father.
In Acts 7:51, to which you later refer, it says:
... ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your
fathers [did], so [do] ye.
So they resisted the Holy Spirit already in the Old
Testament; it is a parallel, not a contrast.
> And when Israel refused to hear and rejected the words
> spoken by Stephen (Acts 6:8 through Acts 7), it was the
> final rejection of the Holy Spirit ...
> Acts 7:51 blasphemy.
Acts 7:51 does not contain the word blasphemy, at least
not in the KJV nor in the Nestle/Aland text.
> It was the unforgiveable sin. And God will judge it as
> his word is faithful and true.
> ...
> Instead, God brought forth his secret plan. He saved a
> murderer of Christians ...
QUESTION #1:
How could God save Paul, who, according to your logic had
committed the unforgivable sin, since he was consenting
unto the death of Stephen (Acts 8:1)?
> Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was the unforgivable
> sin - committed by Israel. Since then, Christ has gone to
> the cross of Calvary to bear the sins of all mankind so
> that ALL men could be saved, ...
> ... Making all sins forgiveable.
QUESTION #2:
If by the cross of Calvary all sins were made forgivable,
how could the people later in Acts 7 commit a sin which
you consider as unforgivable?
God bless you!
Dieter
Richard E. Martin
>
> The bottom line on the Sin Agaisnt the Holy Ghost is that it is
> denying the born again experience / indwelling of the spirit. It
> therefore can only be committed by spirit filled believers. See my
> essay on it at http://www.inficad.com/~cbolton/secure.html
>
> I would appreciate your feedback.
>
> Chris Bolton
>
> Those who cherish freedom do not need to flame those who don't; We
> can though, through our questions and logic, help them to self-immolate.
>
> cbo...@inficad.com (E-Mail)
> http://www.inficad.com/~cbolton/ (Home Page URL)
>
>
>
mix light and darkness, good and evil to the point where right and wrong is
indistinguishable. Once one doesn't discern good from evil, they have
aligned themselves contrary to the 'Spirit'. There is no effective means
for repentance if indeed one thinks they are not wrong!
Richard
Rob Martino
andre michaud wrote:
> >Certainly not! Unless the Catholic Church should be regarded as higher than
> >Jesus Christ.
> >
> >Mt. 12:31-32 says, Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy
> >shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not
> >be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man it
> >shall be foregiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it
> >shall not be foregiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to
> >come."
> >
> >Agape,
> >Sandy
>
> Sandy, if the Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit,and,
> if the infallability is truly present within this Church, how can
> you claim that calling this Church a harlot not blasphamy against
> be blasphemy against Him?
Certainly if your "if" held, then you might have a case. However,
you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that the Catholic Church maintains
an "infallible" status in doctrine and guidance, same for any other
earthly recognized religious organization (ie. Protestant or Orthodox
groups.
The church is simply made up of those whom Jesus has put there, who
have responded in faith to his gospel. It's not an earthly organization
or confined to a particular denomination or group, it transcends
all such boundaries. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within, and he
is the one building his kingdom.
Rob
--
Rob Martino
http://www.cris.com/~rpmtino
Rob Martino
andre michaud wrote:
> >I definitely believe that committing what Heb. 6:4-6 says is blaspheme, I also
> >believe that Mt. 12:30, tells us also gives us a hint as to what blaspheme is
> >also, which suggests it is a refusal of accepting the Lord as Savior, thus
> >being totally against Jesus Christ thus hardening ones heart as others have
> >suggested.
> And therefore you claim that "only christians" can be saved?
> What do you consider to be the lot of those who had never heard
> of Christianity?
What do you think a "christian" is? I think it's anyone whom God has
called unto himself and has become a partaker in the abudant and eternal
life that Christ bought for us. In this sense, of course "only
Christians" are saved, since it's part of the definition of the word!
But maybe you are considering "christian" as a label applied to a
church-goer or member of a particular denomination or religious
organization. Well, like I said in another post, being a part of
one of these groups doesn't make anyone a "christian". Becoming
a new creation, washed by the blood of Christ, having the Spirit of
God dwelling in your very being, is. And I'm not one to limit how God
might accomplish this with those whom we might think "had never heard of
Christianity", after all he's the one ultimately building his kingdom.
Rita E. Bauschard
Dieter Hnatek <hna...@ping.at> wrote in article
<5e06p0$d...@netsrv2.spss.com>...
> Reference: <5do74k$4...@netsrv2.spss.com>
>
>
> QUESTION #1:
> How could God save Paul, who, according to your logic had
> committed the unforgivable sin, since he was consenting
> unto the death of Stephen (Acts 8:1)?
<<<<<<<<<<Because when God saved Paul he began the AGE of Grace and made
Paul the first member of the Body of Christ under a new dispensation. Paul
was not saved to be unders the Law and the Old Covenant. Because God is a
graceFUL God and a patient God. And,
in charge!
> QUESTION #2:
> If by the cross of Calvary all sins were made forgivable,
> how could the people later in Acts 7 commit a sin which
> you consider as unforgivable?
<<<<<<<< >The Book of Acts covers a period of 30 some years and two
different programs of God. By the end of that period of time, God set
aside the program concerning national Israel and the LAW or Old Covenant.
But during that same period, God saved Paul, Acts 9, and revealed the
RESULTS of the Cross of Calvary. While the crucifixion was prophesied, the
end result of the act was not revealed until revealed to the apostle Paul.
That is why his message is different from Peter's. Read Acts all through
and you will find three different instances recorded where Israel was to be
rejected (temporarily - blinded for a season) finally in Acts 28.
fat...@aol.com
>
> And therefore you claim that "only christians" can be saved?
>What do you consider to be the lot of those who had never heard
>of Christianity?
>
>
Sadly, and for reasons that only God can know, those who have never heard of Christ are destined for the same fate that befalls those who refect Christ. We can tell this because Jesus Himself told us to go to the ends of the earth preaching the gospel. Why would Christ command us to do this if those who never here are saved automatically. Surely then it would be safer to tell no one about Jesus so that there is no risk of anyone rejecting Christ.
Andrew
garth
I have a few questions arising out of an existing thread which I do
not want to shift off-topic. Any thoughts?
fat...@aol.com wrote in article <5e5v9b$q...@netsrv2.spss.com>...
> In article <5dtgov$3...@netsrv2.spss.com>, andre michaud
<mi...@cwconnect.ca> writes:
>
> >
> > And therefore you claim that "only christians" can be saved?
> >What do you consider to be the lot of those who had never heard
> >of Christianity?
>
> Sadly, and for reasons that only God can know, those who
have never heard of Christ are destined for the same fate that
befalls those who refect Christ.
PSA 96:10 Say among the heathen [that] the LORD reigneth: the world
also
shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall
judge the
people righteously.
Question 1: does this give confidence to say that will everyone be
judged fairly.
-------------------------------------------------------------
ROM 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by
nature the
things contained in the law, these, having not the law,
are a law
unto themselves:
ROM 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their
conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the
mean
while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Question 2: .will those who never got to hear the gospel be judged
according to the law contained in their own consciences?
---------------------------------------------------------------
ROM 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it
fulfil the
law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost
transgress
the law?
Question 4: Question 3: Does this mean that if we fail to measure
up, the *unsaved* will in fact judge us ?
----------------------------------------------------------------
1CO 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and
if the
world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge
the smallest
matters?
1CO 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more
things that
pertain to this life?
Question 5: So who are we, if we are that high up the scale?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> We can tell this because Jesus Himself told us to go to the ends of
the earth preaching the gospel.
Something here has always puzzled me. As far as I knew, we are told
to go into all the world in only two places in scripture. One of
these places is in Mark and it is a known forgery or later addition.
This leaves one place. This scripture was supposedly spoken by Jesus
yet contains reference to the trinity doctrine which was not adopted
until the third century. Is this scripture suspect too? On the other
hand, there are numerous scriptures spoken by Jesus where He goes to
great trouble to conceal the gospel from certain parties and teaches
the disciples to do so too.
Question 6: How can Jesus do both?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The theme is apparently continued with the command not to go to Asia
in Acts 16:6 and then I get confused because Paul goes there soon
after being told not to?. Paul was forbidden by the Holy Spirit to
return to Jerusalem but he went there as well (ACS 21:4)
Question 7: Was Paul disobedient?
----------------------------------------------------------------
>Why would Christ command us to do this if those who never here are
saved automatically.
Question 8: Is this a actual doctrine held by some churches?.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Surely then it would be safer to tell no one about Jesus so that
there is no risk of anyone rejecting Christ.
Question 9: Laterall thinking ? There is something wrong here ... ?
Angus Macleod
In message <5do74k$4...@netsrv2.spss.com>
"Rita E. Bauschard" <rit...@ncinter.net> writes:
> But Jesus Christ had been in a meeting in Heaven before coming to earth.
> In that meeting it was determined that He would come "to the Jews only."
Who told you that?? Surely if the foreordained plan of God was to
save an elect people, it does not necessarily mean the Jews!
--
Rejoice in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Angus.
Charles Lincoln
fat...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <5dtgov$3...@netsrv2.spss.com>, andre michaud <mi...@cwconnect.ca> writes:
>
> >
> > And therefore you claim that "only christians" can be saved?
> >What do you consider to be the lot of those who had never heard
> >of Christianity?
> >
> >
>
> Andrew
Christianity is not what saves you Jesus is. I never knew anything about
Jesus. I grew up in the streets. But Jesus saved me as I stepped out of
a dope house. Christianity doesn't save, Jesus does.
The unforgivable sin: here it is straight from Jesus' mouth
mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never