when Microsoft will repair the MiTAC screw-up ?
www.msmobiles.com
Many people are complaining that software that is code-
signed with GeoTrust is not working with MiTAC 8380
smarpthones. Will Microsoft please behave seriously and
resolve this problem immediately? Or how long should we
wait?
I have heard from Juha Christensen personally that ISV
(Independent Software Vendors) are important to Microsoft
very much. But it looks like it is not truth because
several months passed and still Microsoft has not repaired
this problem.
By not repairing this problem Microsoft is again scaring
away massively developers from making any software for
Microsoft smartphone. It is getting nasty... MiTAC users
are complaining, developers who bought GeoTrust are
complaining and I, who would like to encourage more people
to buy Microsoft smartphones am in a difficult situation
because not only cannot they run freeware, but also NOT
ALL PROPERLY CODE SIGNED applications are working ! It
already is nasty and I see no reaction from Microsoft.
Scandal! I am a very very sad panda due to this screw-up
and Microsoft's inability to react at all...
--
http://msmobiles.com - all about cell phoneZ
powered by Microsoft.
Ace Swerling
single vendor's models then why is this Microsoft's fault?
"www.msmobiles.com" <nos...@msmobiles.com> wrote in message
news:086f01c37884$7d9e5310$a001...@phx.gbl...
Robert Levy [MVP]
--
Robert Levy
http://RobertLevy.NET
http://SmartphoneThoughts.com
Microsoft MVP - Mobile Devices, Smartphone
"Ace Swerling" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:eesxP4J...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl
www.msmobiles.com
>
>--
>Robert Levy
I see that you, R. Levy, never lose any opportunity to
say something stupid!
I repeat: problems experienced by MiTAC are PROBLEMS WITH
SOFTWARE. MiTAC makes hardware, Microsoft delivers
software. Microsoft should fix software. Is it so
difficult to comprehend ????
The PocketTV Team
> Why is the problem only showing up on MiTAC phones? If this is specific to
a
> single vendor's models then why is this Microsoft's fault?
Maybe the problem has to do with the processor. The Mio 8380 is the only
phone that has an Xscale PXA255. All other Smartphones on the market are
using various versions of StrongARM processors.
The PocketTV Team
"Robert Levy [MVP]" <ms...@distopia.org> wrote in message
news:eV6kc8J...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Exactly.
The PocketTV Team
> SOFTWARE. MiTAC makes hardware, Microsoft delivers
> software. Microsoft should fix software. Is it so
> difficult to comprehend ????
MS is aware of the certificate problem on the Mio 8380 (according to Mitac
engineers) and they are working on solving it - but it would be nice to get
a word on this issue directly from MS.
Gert Monnissen
you can have on currently available Win. smatphones
can't compete with current and new coming HTC produced smartphones.
regarding the problem with code signing... try to run Geotrust signed
software on the upcoming spv2 (2003 OS).... some run, some
don't...why...???? seems there is a lot changed regarding priviliged
signing in the 2003 os... I hope final os version will be better
"The PocketTV Team" <do-not-rep...@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:#tiLqiKe...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Robert Levy [MVP]
licensed, some they write themselves), customizations, and drivers they've
written for their hardware.
Surely you've been around here long enough to know that OEMs are responsible
for writing a significant amount of complex code.
--
Robert Levy
http://RobertLevy.NET
http://SmartphoneThoughts.com
Microsoft MVP - Mobile Devices, Smartphone
"www.msmobiles.com" <nos...@msmobiles.com> wrote in message
news:035301c378a0$a6a0c380$a401...@phx.gbl
The PocketTV Team
news:OfhsPnKe...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> to be honnest, running fast action games on the Mitac is the best
experience
> you can have on currently available Win. smatphones
> can't compete with current and new coming HTC produced smartphones.
>
> regarding the problem with code signing... try to run Geotrust signed
> software on the upcoming spv2 (2003 OS).... some run, some
> don't...why...????
there may be several problems there.
if apps don't install, then it is related to certificates.
if apps install but don't run properly, then it can be a totally different
issue (e.g. related to the IPSM driver bug) or just the fact that app has
problems with Smartphone 2003 (the OS is quite different from that of
Smartpgone 2002).
when you write:
> some run, some don't
do you mean "some install, some don't" ?
The PocketTV Team
and it points to a problem in the way Mitac built their Mio 8380 Smartphone
platform using the platform builder SDK.
Apparently Mitac misconfigured one parameter that has to do with allowing
non-privileged write access to the registry key HKCR (used for file
associations). So any CAB file that set keys in HKCR won't install, and any
app that tries to create keys (programmatically) under HKCR won't work
either unless it is signed with a privileged certificate (and no-one knows
how to get those!).
It looks like the responsabilities are shared: MS should provide basic
testing tools to detect this sort of problem before devices go to
production, and Mitac probably did not read (or did not understand) the
instructions (if any) from MS regarding this important configuration issue.
There are many configuration flags when making a WinCE platform, and
apparently it is easy for OEM's to misconfigure some of them...
So the problem has nothing to do with Xscale, it is not a bug in MS
Software, it is an OEM issue and Mitac can (and should) correct it.
Hopefuly Mitac will either provide ROM upgrades or some sort of software
patch for existing Mio 8380, and ship new Mio 8380 and future devices with a
correctly configured ROM.
Marc Zimmermann [MVP]
>team.
FWIW, HP Germany keeps telling customers who are asking for the Pocket PC
2002 upgrade (that Compaq intentionally sold between October and December
of 2001 only) that Microsoft doesn't sell it to them. At the same time, the
upgrade is still available in the USA.
Some OEM representatives are happy to point their finger at Microsoft even
if it's actually their screw-up.
--
Marc Zimmermann
Microsoft MVP - Mobile Devices
Pocket PC User Groups http://www.clubpocketpc.de
Personal Homepage http://www.zimac.de
www.msmobiles.com
"The PocketTV Team" <do-not-rep...@pockettv.com>
wrote:
>We have gathered some technical information regarding
the Mio 8380 problem,
thank you "The PocketTV Team" for your tips and
information. this one posting of yours is 1000 more worth
than 100 emails of various MVPs that are busy with making
justifications that "Microsfot is not guilty, ALWAYS
somebody else screwed, not Microsoft"...but their remarks
are totally useless... trash.
> So any CAB file that set keys in HKCR won't
> install, and any app that tries to create keys
> (programmatically) under HKCR won't work
> either unless it is signed with a privileged
> certificate (and no-one knows
> how to get those!).
HKCR = HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
hm, I see! Getting privileged certificate is not easy
even for SPV phones... it is not a solution. Solution
would be what? Is there any work around for developers,
dear "The PocketTV Team" ? Should developers simply use
another registry folder?? which one???
> So the problem has nothing to do with Xscale,
> it is not a bug in MS Software, it is an
> OEM issue and Mitac can (and should) correct it.
HM. HM, but with all due respect it is just your
estimation not official standpoint of neither Microsoft
or MiTAC! You require hardware people (MiTAC) to check
software delivered by Microsoft? This is unacceptable. In
this way not many hardware vendors will be deciding to
buy Microsoft smartphone platform. Microsoft must feel
responsible and provide tools.
> It looks like the responsabilities are shared:
> MS should provide basic testing tools
> to detect this sort of problem before
> devices go to production, and Mitac probably
> did not read (or did not understand) the
> instructions (if any) from MS regarding
> this important configuration issue.
wait a minute! MiTAC is hardware vendor! Nobody should
demand from hardware vendors to get deep knowledge of
software. Microsoft simply should provide tools to verify
if configuration is OK that would carry out tests and say
at the end "It's OK" or "you misconfigured HKCR, please
correct it". But now we all have to rely on 3rd party
(thank you Pocket TV!) to sneak some details.... god
damn it, it is not a serious and professional approach.
Again the totally not serious approach of MS to making
business in cell phone industry has been confirmed. It
looks like MS is NOT INTERESTED IN SUCCEEDING IN THIS
INDUSTRY AND IS NOT TAKING IT SERIOUSLY. damn it.
wake up Microsoft ! or face 0.01 % market share... in
cell phone industry.
--
http://msmobiles.com - all about cell phones
powered by Microsoft.
The PocketTV Team
news:cej2mvo3vfsg5jibk...@4ax.com...
>
> Some OEM representatives are happy to point their finger at Microsoft even
> if it's actually their screw-up.
Yes, but in some cases MS does not help OEM's.
For example MS still distributes the IPSM driver's binary which has big
problems and should never be used by OEM now that the TFAT replacement
exists (for the internal flash file system).
Why is MS still distributing IPSM, beats me! It just gives one more
opportunity for OEM to screw-up...
The PocketTV Team
>
> "The PocketTV Team" <do-not-rep...@pockettv.com>
> wrote:
>
> >We have gathered some technical information regarding
> the Mio 8380 problem,
>
> thank you "The PocketTV Team" for your tips and
> information. this one posting of yours is 1000 more worth
> than 100 emails of various MVPs
thanks.
> hm, I see! Getting privileged certificate is not easy
> even for SPV phones... it is not a solution. Solution
> would be what?
Solution is that Mitac correct their ROM and allow un-privileged
write access to HKCR, which is what all Smartphones are supposed to have.
> Is there any work around for developers,
> dear "The PocketTV Team" ?
well, not any good solution. There are workarounds. Basically you should:
1) not set HKCR key in the CAB file
2) make sure your application can run without being able to create any key
in HKCR, i.e. it should ignore 'no permission' errors when trying to create
keys under HKCR.
As a result the app will probably run, but it will not be capable to set its
file associations, so it will not work with file explorers (i.e. impossible
to open files from a file explorer application).
> Should developers simply use
> another registry folder?? which one???
there is no replacement. file associations are always under HKCR. That's
where all the file explorers look for them.
> HM. HM, but with all due respect it is just your
> estimation not official standpoint of neither Microsoft
> or MiTAC!
No, I got all this information from MS directly, from a source that asked to
not be named here. But you can certainely verify it with some simple tests.
> You require hardware people (MiTAC) to check
> software delivered by Microsoft?
I never said anything about that. But there are test suits to check that a
platform is correcly buit, and this point is obviously not tested.
> Microsoft must feel responsible and provide tools.
I agree. The responsabilities are shared.
> wait a minute! MiTAC is hardware vendor! Nobody should
> demand from hardware vendors to get deep knowledge of
> software.
Incorrect. Hardware vendors are responsible for constructing the software
platform for their hardware. MS does not provide one OS that fits all
hardware. MS provide tools (modules) and OEM provides drivers and OEM
creates the platform by integraring the pieces.
> Microsoft simply should provide tools to verify
> if configuration is OK that would carry out tests and say
> at the end "It's OK" or "you misconfigured HKCR, please
> correct it".
I agree, and obviously this part is missing.
We had similar problems on Pocket PC 2003 when some OEM built their
platforms with applications running in user-mode (rather than system-mode).
There was no tests to detect that, and it was causing many compatibility
problems.
If Microsoft was Nasa, Smartphone would be grounded until all those problems
are fixed.
Marc Zimmermann [MVP]
>> if it's actually their screw-up.
>
>Yes, but in some cases MS does not help OEM's.
I know. I simply wanted to say that we may not know for sure who is
actually responsible for the issue.
Gareth Parris
newsgroup and a SmartPhone 2003 developer, your comments [www.MSmobiles.com]
are pretty lame too and not very helpful. Do you purposely try and get
everyone's back up? Please try and be a little more helpful and
understanding of the issues involved here.
"www.msmobiles.com" <nos...@msmobiles.com> wrote in message
news:015101c378eb$39eee0f0$a001...@phx.gbl...
>
The PocketTV Team
news:uj7qykQ...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Just like to point out that, coming from a relatively new reader to this
> newsgroup and a SmartPhone 2003 developer, your comments
[www.MSmobiles.com]
> are pretty lame too and not very helpful.
nothing new there, actually this posting is pretty tame and mellow compared
to his usual style (in general personal attacks against anyone who don't
agree with his views, in particular against MVP's, sometimes worse). you'll
get used to it. don't ever argue with him even if he is obviously wrong,
you'll waste your time and temper. he has a website that compiles
information found on various other sources, sometimes useful but not always
correct information, though.
Jimmy pol
and
www.smartphonethoughts.com
are the best sites ever about smartphones,
whoever sais msmobiles compiles its site from other sources is dead wrong,
and doesnt understand the high significance this site is providing.
its the only place for microsoft cell phone enabled devices lovers, to read
news, check hacks and updates and be on top of things.
"The PocketTV Team" <do-not-rep...@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:O4wLIDSe...@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
The PocketTV Team
news:OV5mbFT...@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> www.msmobiles.com
> and
> www.smartphonethoughts.com
> are the best sites ever about smartphones,
> whoever sais msmobiles compiles its site from other sources is dead wrong,
> and doesnt understand the high significance this site is providing.
> its the only place for microsoft cell phone enabled devices lovers, to
read
> news, check hacks and updates and be on top of things.
I have seen many occurences where the info publushed on msmobiles was
previously published some other place.
e.g. the quote from Ori Amiga on http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1297.html was
taken from this newsgroup.
I have also seen many cases where msmobiles info was incorrect (e.g. it
recently said 2GB SD cards were readily available, which is not true).
So take the info on this site with caution...
The PocketTV Team
> when Microsoft will repair the MiTAC screw-up ?
Mitac will provide a patch for the Mio 8380 no later than Oct 15th.