Format Doesn't "Hold"
Judy McKinney
called index.dot. The template includes a two column page format. I attach
this template to my document and assign each item one of (5) styles that are
in an outlined numbering scheme: I, A, 1., a), (1) with indents every .25".
Automatically update is checked off.
I finish with the formatting, saving the document many times along the way.
I close the document and then open it again. The formatting of two of the
styles has the tabs removed and in some areas under Heading 2 (A,B,C), the
numbering continues from the last Heading 2.
I have reviewed the dot many times and re-defined the styles in both of the
dot and doc . It still does not "hold" the format. Does anyone have any
suggestions on what I am doing wrong? This sometimes seems like a visual
thing. We have this problem with editing our specifications, too. The
document looks fine but when it is closed and opened again, the format is
fouled up.
Thanks in advance for you comments.
Judy McKinney
PWI Engineering
Philadelphia, PA
Windows98/Word97
Margaret Aldis
Welcome to the world of Word autonumbering. Using the user interface
that Word provides to create numbered styles creates a 'frangible link'
between the style and the numbering scheme (List Template). On various
events that involve more than a single document (such as updating styles
from template, and pasting lists between documents) the List Templates
play musical chairs in the List Gallery (Bullets and Numbering dialog)
so you no longer have the same numbering format attached to the same
style. You will also find that using the Format - Bullets and Numbering
dialog while editing (e.g. to restart a list) will reset indent and tab
positions on the style to those of the List Template, and may also give
you an additional tab position.
You may be able to stabilise things within a single document by starting
afresh with a reset (default) List Gallery, and creating your entire
outline numbering scheme from the top level style. Using built-in
heading styles also seems to be safer than user-defined styles. Some
people avoid autonumbering altogether and revert to SEQ fields. However,
the best workaround seems to be to set the style-List Template link up
using VBA code. It's much more difficult to break the link once you've
done this (for example, you can update styles from template with
impunity), and if you do, you can just run the macro again.
To create the code you need, you may find it helpful first to record a
macro of creating the list format using the UI so you can see the
settings you need to make. Then edit the code to follow this pattern
(this comes from one of my templates and doesn't match your numbering
system):
Sub NumberHeadings()
'Sets up the heading style numbering using a named list template
'Check if the ListTemplate exists
Dim aListTemplate As ListTemplate
Exists = False
For Each aListTemplate In ActiveDocument.ListTemplates
If aListTemplate.Name = "ChapList" Then Exists = True
Next aListTemplate
'Create it if it doesn't
If Not Exists Then
Set newList = ActiveDocument.ListTemplates.Add_
(OutlineNumbered:=True, Name:="ChapList")
End If
'Define the format, using appropriate settings
With ActiveDocument.ListTemplates("ChapList").ListLevels(1)
.NumberFormat = "Chapter %1"
.TrailingCharacter = wdTrailingTab
.NumberStyle = wdListNumberStyleArabic
.NumberPosition = CentimetersToPoints(0)
.Alignment = wdListLevelAlignLeft
.TextPosition = CentimetersToPoints(0)
.TabPosition = CentimetersToPoints(3.17)
.ResetOnHigher = True
.StartAt = 1
.LinkedStyle = "Heading 1"
End With
With ActiveDocument.ListTemplates("ChapList").ListLevels(2)
.NumberFormat = "%1.%2"
.TrailingCharacter = wdTrailingTab
.NumberStyle = wdListNumberStyleArabic
.NumberPosition = CentimetersToPoints(0)
.Alignment = wdListLevelAlignLeft
.TextPosition = CentimetersToPoints(-2)
.TabPosition = CentimetersToPoints(0)
.ResetOnHigher = True
.StartAt = 1
.LinkedStyle = "Heading 2"
End With
' and so on through the levels
End Sub
In article <OB452kJq$GA.76@cppssbbsa05>, Judy McKinney
<jmck...@pwius.com> writes
--
Margaret Aldis, Syntagma, e-mail Margare...@syntagma.co.uk
"Civilisation advances by extending the number of important
operations which we can perform without thinking about them.
Operations of thought are like cavalry charges in battle - they are
strictly limited in number, they require fresh horses, and must
only be made at decisive moments." A N Whitehead
Judy McKinney
Gates? The typical user or company of users doesn't dabble in VBA code
unless the curiosity is killing them...
I don't understand the terminology "List Template", "List Gallery".
Basically are you saying that the template feature doesn't work reliably and
that it shouldn't be used? Instead I should incorporate similar vba code
into my documents?
Judy
Dave Rado
Judy McKinney <jmck...@pwius.com> wrote in message
news:ucYcl#Kq$GA.302@cppssbbsa04...
| Whoa! Margaret, if it is so unstable, is this not being addressed by Mr.
| Gates?
Good question. You could try emailing him, or you could email
msw...@microsoft.com.
| The typical user or company of users doesn't dabble in VBA code
| unless the curiosity is killing them...
"Typical" users prbably couldn't cope with SEQ fields either. Unless a
company has someone on board (you?) who can make Microsoft's numbering
stable and easy to use, by following the strategy Margaret hs indicated,
most "typical users" resort to manual numbering. Several newsgroup members,
however, have managed to make list numbering user-friendly and stable so
that the "typical users" in their company can use it, Margaret being one of
the pioneers in this area (me being a relative latecomer). If you want to
go down this this route we'll all be happy to try and help. But if so
you'll need to learn some VBA.
| I don't understand the terminology "List Template", "List Gallery".
The List Gallery is what you see when you select Format + Bullets and
Numbering - it's a series of "windows" that allow you to see and select from
the List Templates collection. A List Template is a series of definitions
for how a list works - Outlined or not Outlined, Bulleted or Numbered,
Numbering Style, size of indent, etc. If you select Format Bullets and
Numbering, select a format (or *window*, if you like), select Customise, and
then click on the More button, you'll get an idea as to what goes into the
defintion of a List Template.
The List Gallery is *only* a window into the List Templates collection - a
document can contain many more List Templates than you can see when you
select Format Bullets & Numbering (which is part of the problem).
But the biggest part of the problem is that unless you define your styles
using VBA in the specific way outlined by Margaret, Word doesn't seem to
have any absolute handle on the formatting you defined in your style.
Instead, it seems to have a handle on the *position in the List Gallery* of
that format - ie "this style is using the third from the left on the Outline
tab of the Format Bullets and Numbering dialog box" - and yes it really is
that bad! Of course, which list format happens to be "third from the left
on the Outline tab of the Format Bullets and Numbering dialog box" varies
from machine to machine and from document to document, which is why it's so
incredibly buggy.
| Basically are you saying that the template feature doesn't work reliably
Um, I love your understatement :-) More bugs than a compost heap is how I'd
put it. But I think you may be getting confused between List Templates and
document Templates. Document Templates (the things you see when you select
File + New) are the best thing since sliced bread. List Templates
(definitions of numbering schemes) are what's broken.
| and that it shouldn't be used?
List templates can be made to work reliably using VBA, but not using the
Format Bullets and Numbering dialog - *except* in the case of Heading
Numbering, which *can* be made moderately reliable without VBA, provided you
define all your headings levels in one go (in other words, select Format +
Style + Heading 1 + Modify + Format + Numbering, click on the Outline
Numbered tab, select the appropriate numbering type, + Customise + More,
where it says Link Level to Style, select Heading 1. Then *without*
quitting the dialog, select Level 2 at the top left of the dialog, set it up
how you want it, link it to the Heading 2 style, and so on).
It might help you to search the archive for previous postings on this
issue - go to http://www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml and search for "List
Templates". If you'd like to explore the SEQ field method of getting around
the problem, search for "SEQ field" and look out especially for postings by
John McGhie.
Hope that helps
Regards
Dave
Margaret Aldis
<jmck...@pwius.com> writes
>Whoa! Margaret, if it is so unstable, is this not being addressed by Mr.
>unless the curiosity is killing them...
>that it shouldn't be used? Instead I should incorporate similar vba code
>into my documents?
>Judy
>
>
Yes, it really is that bad, in both Word '97 and Word 2000. Given the
problems it gives the lawyers with their legal numbering schemes it is
amazing that Microsoft haven't been cleaned out! I believe that
Microsoft are completely rethinking numbering for the next release.
Apologies for lack of clarity - I knew really I was both saying too much
and too little to someone who hasn't been following this saga, but Dave
seems to have filled in the detail for me.
Just to clarify further, you do not need to put the VBA code in every
document - you just need to run it once to set up the numbering on your
styles, as an alternative to using the Format - Bullets and Numbering
dialog. The easiest way of doing this is usually to put it in the
document template, run it there to set up the styles, and then apply the
styles to any existing documents using update from template. Or you can
run it on existing documents directly. However, if you don't want code
in your templates or if you have a suite of templates that use similar
numbering it may be better to have it in a Global template and run it
from there.
Users should never need to run the code (since they can use the stable
style you provide), but if they still have access to the Format -
Bullets and Numbering dialog they will probably break the numbering from
time to time so it is useful to have it available.
One last caveat - I don't think it is safe to copy the numbered styles
using the Organizer - it looks OK at first, but I've had the List
Gallery 'musical chairs' reappear after doing this.
Hope this helps