some questions from a new witch...
Bob "Ravenwren"
Grendela wrote:
>
> [hm ok i have quite a few, so sit tight :)]
>
> a few nights ago (full moon), i cast my very first circle! but there
> was a problem; something didn't feel quite right...for example, when i was
> supposed to visualize energy forming the sphere, i had some difficulty
> seeing it. does this just come with practice? and what if i falter or
> sut-ter during my chant - should i do it over? is it ok to read off a
> paper, or is it better to memorize ritual chanting? i really would like
> to work at this and become an effective wiccan, but tain't easy...
> after closing my circle, i felt rather tense and jumpy (& disappointed
> to say the least...) i thought this was supposed to come naturally(?)
> ::furrows her brow::
> also: does anyone know what a Witch's Ladder is used for? i read
> somewhere that you can make one by tying 9 feathers on a cord, but it
> didn't mention their use...:::grumbles heartily::
> and another thing :) - could someone please explain what the Rune of
> Algiz looks like? (i need it for a protection spell) please don't tell
> me i'm lazy because i don't research - i checked out a book on runes, but
> find it i could not :(.
> humph ok one last query: i live with my parents (a maid of 16 am i)
> and they disdain my generous use of incense :(, their complaint being
> it'll burn the house down (! trust me - incense can't burn squat, no
> matter how hard i try...). does anyone have any suggestions for an Air
> substitute?? (would a bowl full of air be suitable? ; ) )
> phwee ::wipes the sweat from off her brow:: methinks that's all for
> now - thanks for reading,
> fare thee well,
> grendela
First off, visualzation comes with practice, second reading from a paper
is just fine. Writing a rite puts alot of personal energy into it
already. Third, the wonderful thing about Wicca is is that you can make
it yours. To personalize it to meet your needs. What I mean is this,
find what works for you, what inspires you and gets you closer to the
Lady and Lord, also find what doesn't work for you and leave what doesnt
work alone. Your intent is the most important thing. The Gods do not
keep score cards and lastly, always remeber the magick is within you,
the Goddess and God are within you, everything else is a prop which
helps to unlock things in your subconcience. I remeber when I was new at
ritual and Wicca itself, I had many of the same questions, just remeber
its not about lofty words, or pretty tools, its about building a
relationship with the divine. I hope this helps.
Ravenwren
Marjorie Rosen
Visualization, like most other things, takes practice. Do regular
meditation and ritual and your "muscles" will become strong. It really
doesn't come naturally! :-) Make sure you are completely grounded after
ending the circle. Touch the ground and feel the energy run into the
earth! You won't feel so tense and edgy. Ungrounded energy can bring on
bad juju like headaches, nausea, sleeplessness, and more. BTW, better
your words should come from your heart and your head than a piece of
paper. You're doing individual work, not "High Church" public ritual
here. Go with the flow. Understand what you are doing/invoking, keep it
simple, and don't worry about the language.
If you can't find the rune you want for a particular working, take a
different path. Perhaps you might want to use just herbs instead of the
rune? It's the intent and your belief in what you do that works. (I know,
the books say you must do it *this* way! Take them with a *large* grain
of salt!)
You can use herbal infusions instead of masses of incense, but how about
just not using so much incense? One stick of incense is usually enough
and isn't too strong, especially through a closed door with maybe your
window slightly cracked for circulation.
Ghods, we're starting to sound *so* mundane! :-)
BB and feel free to email if you have more questions.
Marjorie
HPs, Our Lady of the Sycamores
Wesley Gomes
On 28 Dec 1996 07:08:12 GMT, ne...@ix.netcom.com(Pan's Grove) wrote:
No offence, but you need to read up. The Crucible is a play written by
Artur Miller. This play isn't based on historical events. I have the
play/book and in the book there is a statement about the historical
aspect of the play, it talks about haveing to combine characters,
increasing ages, and dramatizing. So its not supposed to be
historicaly acurate. It's one man's interpretation.
Respectfuly Yours,
Wes
Grendela
rom...@azstarnet.com
wgo...@ix.netcom.com (Wesley Gomes) wrote:
*On 28 Dec 1996 07:08:12 GMT, ne...@ix.netcom.com(Pan's Grove) wrote:
*No offence, but you need to read up. The Crucible is a play written
by
*Artur Miller. This play isn't based on historical events. I have the
*play/book and in the book there is a statement about the historical
*aspect of the play, it talks about haveing to combine characters,
*increasing ages, and dramatizing. So its not supposed to be
*historicaly acurate. It's one man's interpretation.
* Respectfuly Yours,
* Wes
*****************************************************************************************************
One interesting fact about Arthur Miller is that he does not believe
that Witches exist. At least that is what he said in a recent
interview. He said this movie is about a time when people got
histerical about something that does not even exist.
Tribe
Pan's Grove <ne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
:
: I just saw the movie The Crucible, and it seemed to suck more than
: any movie has sucked before. The actors were good, but the movie had a
: lot of distorted facts ... and ignored many important facts about the
: Salem witch trials, from my view.
Of course, everyone has their own reasons for liking or disliking a film,
but it's hardly a reason for me to dislike a movie with good acting just
because the movie had "distorted facts." Besides, it is is based on the
play by Arthur Miller, which he himself admits is not "historically
acurate," and was intended to parallel the HUAC hearings in the 50s.
: First off, the movie began with Tituba and the
: girls who caused the Salem Witch trials ( but they had a whole gang of
: girls ... wasn't it just 3 or 4 in historical view, ) doing a ritual ,
: ( that started off as a dance until the head girl, played by Wynonna
: Rider, grabbed the chicken and ripped it open to have blood squirting
: on her face ... then she started pulling off her clothes! ) What a
: falsehood ... the only thing noted, from what I read in Salem tourist
: information was that Tituba was from Barbados and she did tea leaf
: readings.. ( well, except in the movie, of course! )
What's false about it? Tituba wa admittedly from Barbados or Granada...as
a black slave from the Caribbean she may very well have had some exposure
to Santeria...remember that there were slaves in the Caribbean long before
North America was colonized. Since no one really knows what happened on
that day, Miller's, or the director's for that matter, is as good as any.
: There's no doubt that this movie even seemed to justify that
: the people of Salem ( granted, there were no witch triales in Salem, in
: reality, but we all know that many people refer to the witch trials in
: MA as the Salem witch trials, ) had _some_ leg to stand on; never
: mentioning anything but the Puritan views ( they could have mentioned
: the facts of possible disease and poisonings _somewhere_ in the
: movie. )
I'm wondering whether we saw the same movie. I found nothing in the film,
or in the play for that matter, that would indicate any perceived
"disrespect" towards witches or any other group. If it is spoken from the
Puritan point of view, well, it was the Puritans who kept the records. In
any event, as I mentioned above, this wwasn't the point anyway.
: The man stoned to death ( the old man, ) chose not to say
: anything because if he had said anything ( as to if he was a witch or
: not, ) the church could have taken his money and property. In the movie
: they kept laying stones on him, because he wouldn't spread blame to
: anyone else! They seemed to only show 6 people hanged in the movie,
: when there were lots more.
So? What is your point? I really think that you missed the entire point
of the movie.
: I thought that the movie companies distorted some
: facts about witchcraft in the movie, The Craft out of sheer ignorance,
: but after seeing the movie, The Crucible, I seriously wonder if it
: wasn't out of hatred and spite!
: The tortured people of the Salem witch trials
: were again abused with the poor portrait that The Crucible flung out to
: the public!
Ah, I see...we are victims, and if anyone writes or films something that
does not portray witches as burning or hung or dismembered, well...it's
out of hatred, and centuries old victims are again "abused." Now I
understand why you didn't like the film.
This movie is not as terrible as you portray it. Not the best I've seen,
certainly not the worst. "Historical accuracy" is not an issue when it
comes to film-making, rather, is the story interesting, is the acting
good, does the editing help the story along, how is the cinematography.
If "historical accuracy" is the criteria for a good film...watch
documentaries, and then, only those that coorespond with someone's nrrow
viewpoint.
Tribe
Paul Hume
Nella -
Good.
Now go and look at (better yet, read) The Crucible again.
Miller doesn't give a rat's ass about "witchcraft" as we discuss it in
Neopaganism. If he even knew this kind of thing was around in 1955 (when
he first wrote The Crucible), it would not have mattered as far as the
play's intent goes.
In his view (original production) it doesn't matter if there were
rituals and orgies in the woods or not. The witch craze was the target
for self-righteous, and fearful, persecution of "the other" - and then
ignited greed in some, a chance to settle scores in others, and
political ambition in yet others, at the expense of those caught in the
madness - John and Mary and the others, but also Abby and Mary Warren.
Look at the reaction of Abby when Mary W. wants to recant. They are
trapped in their own nightmare.
If you poked your head outside of the limited literary world of
Neopaganism from time to time, you would know that The Crucible was
originally written as a direct challenge to McCarthyism, which was in
full swing at the time. THAT is what the witch hunt in the play
represents.
I am looking forward to seeing the film, not least since Miller wrote
the screenplay, to see how he handles the contemporary view of his
classic work on panic, on mob fear, and law as the tool of ignorance.
Only 6 people shown hanged? Well darn darn darn. I don't know if the
film includes the speech (its not by Danforth, but the local minister,
whatisface, which is a crucial part of Act III in the stage text, which
describes the impact of the trials, the fear, the mass arrests -the
desolation of the economy, cows moaning with distended udders in farms
from Salem to Andover.
You want Miller (and actors like Scofield) to portray cardboard villains
in place of Danforth and the others. You are in the wrong market, Nella.
Comic books are down the street. If the ministers and judges are simply
dirty old men, leering at their victims, then there is no conflict, no
hideous irony of concern for the safety of their community driving
people to vicious extremes. No acting worth a damn, for that matter.
The corruption of Danforth's search for truth by political expediency,
his almost manic need to get Proctor to confess, is a key part of the
drama.
(Yes, I have played the role, so of course view it as central to the
piece (g)).
You want a document about witchcraft - the Crucible transcends that
petty topic and was never intended to cater to that particular need.
Paul
Pan's Grove
Nella @ Pan's Grove
I just saw the movie The Crucible, and it seemed to suck more than
any movie has sucked before. The actors were good, but the movie had a
lot of distorted facts ... and ignored many important facts about the
Salem witch trials, from my view.
First off, the movie began with Tituba and the
girls who caused the Salem Witch trials ( but they had a whole gang of
girls ... wasn't it just 3 or 4 in historical view, ) doing a ritual ,
( that started off as a dance until the head girl, played by Wynonna
Rider, grabbed the chicken and ripped it open to have blood squirting
on her face ... then she started pulling off her clothes! ) What a
falsehood ... the only thing noted, from what I read in Salem tourist
information was that Tituba was from Barbados and she did tea leaf
readings.. ( well, except in the movie, of course! )
None of the real cruelties were brought out
in the movie. The most violence done to the characters in the movie was
whippings and a brocken rist to Tituba ( besides the hangings ).
There's no doubt that this movie even seemed to justify that
the people of Salem ( granted, there were no witch triales in Salem, in
reality, but we all know that many people refer to the witch trials in
MA as the Salem witch trials, ) had _some_ leg to stand on; never
mentioning anything but the Puritan views ( they could have mentioned
the facts of possible disease and poisonings _somewhere_ in the
movie. )
The man stoned to death ( the old man, ) chose not to say
anything because if he had said anything ( as to if he was a witch or
not, ) the church could have taken his money and property. In the movie
they kept laying stones on him, because he wouldn't spread blame to
anyone else! They seemed to only show 6 people hanged in the movie,
when there were lots more.
The Puritan preachers ( or whatever, ) seemed to be
" pure " in the movie, and not dirty old men,( inspecting the women all
over ... not just on the face and ears ... like we all know they did! )
I even think many more facts were totally off. Many pagans
are screaming about the movie The Craft, which after seeing both
movies, I can say is the _least_ " crappy " movie.
I thought that the movie companies distorted some
facts about witchcraft in the movie, The Craft out of sheer ignorance,
but after seeing the movie, The Crucible, I seriously wonder if it
wasn't out of hatred and spite!
The tortured people of the Salem witch trials
were again abused with the poor portrait that The Crucible flung out to
the public!
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Although, here's an interesting fact:
According to The Killing of the Witches home page, Joan Allen
was hanged in the witch trials at Old Bailey, in London, England in
1650. The actress that played Elizabeth Proctor, the " Good Wife " that
escaped the rope due to her pregnancy has the real name of Joan Allen!
Oooohhhh ...
Nella
ne...@ix.netcom.com
Pan's Grove web site:
http://pages.prodigy.com/VPQD54B/pansgrov.htm
ren
Visualization is a skill that comes from consistent practice. You're on
the right track. Actually try to see the shell. This is like a forced
hallucination.
Reading the chants and procedures on a paper is fine. After improving
your ritual and making modifications to it, you'll find that you've
already memorized the things you need. This comes with time and
consistent practice. ~good luck.
loki
In article <5a3ck2$9...@news.azstarnet.com>, rom...@azstarnet.com says...
>wgo...@ix.netcom.com (Wesley Gomes) wrote:
It's about the McCarthy hearings in the US in the 1950's. It isn't about
witchcraft at all...
Loki
Elizabeth A. Renaud
Pan's Grove (ne...@ix.netcom.com) writes:
>
> Nella @ Pan's Grove
>
>
> I just saw the movie The Crucible, and it seemed to suck more than
> any movie has sucked before. The actors were good, but the movie had a
> lot of distorted facts ... and ignored many important facts about the
> Salem witch trials, from my view.
i thought this movie was supposed to be taken from the play, 'the
crucible' by arthur miller. it sure does sound like it is. if you've
read the play, you'll realize that miller was using the preconceived
notions of witchcraft that existed in the 1950's. i think i'll have to
see it to base any judgements, but from your description, it sounds just
about right.
just my too sense,
--
bess renaud
"this feather may look worthless, but it comes from afar,
and carries with it all my good intentions."
-- amy tan
adel...@kentvm.kent.edu
In article <19961228014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
gren...@aol.com (Grendela) writes:
> a few nights ago (full moon), i cast my very first circle! but there
>was a problem; something didn't feel quite right...for example, when i was
>supposed to visualize energy forming the sphere, i had some difficulty
>seeing it. does this just come with practice? and what if i falter or
>sut-ter during my chant - should i do it over? is it ok to read off a
>paper, or is it better to memorize ritual chanting? i really would like
>to work at this and become an effective wiccan, but tain't easy...
quite there, I always made sure to verbally affirm that I was within a sphere
of energy. I seem to remember some good exercises in visualization in _The
Spiral Dance_ -- things like visualizing eating an apple (it's important to
develop a full range of senses in visualization; be patient, it doesn't come
all at once, and some senses are easier to visualize than others.
As for chants, don't worry about the stutters. The intent is the important
thing. In the beginning I always used rituals and invocations from books (no I
didn't memorize them) but gradually I became weaned from that -- It helps to
do some mediation on the elements and Diety, to get you more in touch... I
also like to physically connect with the elements when possible -- soaking in
the bathtub, standing in the sunlight, feeling the wind through my hair, lying
on the ground -- I use the memory of these sensations to help me ritually
"connect" with the elements.
> after closing my circle, i felt rather tense and jumpy (& disappointed
>to say the least...) i thought this was supposed to come naturally(?)
>::furrows her brow::
it's needed (sometimes I need to do this to ground), and feel that extra
energy running down into the Earth. (I didn't ground after my first circle! I
remember that feeling! Argh! :-) Also, eating carbohydrates, or food of any
sort, will help you ground as well. Cakes and wine (or juice :-) have more
purposes than one...
> also: does anyone know what a Witch's Ladder is used for? i read
>somewhere that you can make one by tying 9 feathers on a cord, but it
>didn't mention their use...:::grumbles heartily::
also make one for a specific purpose, such as healing or prosperity.
> and another thing :) - could someone please explain what the Rune of
>Algiz looks like? (i need it for a protection spell) please don't tell
>me i'm lazy because i don't research - i checked out a book on runes, but
>find it i could not :(.
down). º
I have also seen it called Elhaz.
> humph ok one last query: i live with my parents (a maid of 16 am i)
>and they disdain my generous use of incense :(, their complaint being
>it'll burn the house down (! trust me - incense can't burn squat, no
>matter how hard i try...). does anyone have any suggestions for an Air
>substitute?? (would a bowl full of air be suitable? ; ) )
container of perfume, a dish of herbs, or a few drops of essential oil in an
aromatherapy lamp (like the old potbourri burners, candle on the bottom but a
shallow dish on top to hold oil). You can also try to use just a pinch or two
of incense, and replenish it only at important points during ritual (such as
when you are invoking air, or purifying the room, or consecrating an object).
-Anne
NEVER MESS WITH DRAGONS, FOR YOU ARE CRUNCHY AND TASTE GOOD WITH CATSUP
In a previous article, ne...@ix.netcom.com(Pan's Grove) wrote:
->
-> Nella @ Pan's Grove
->
->
->girls who caused the Salem Witch trials ( but they had a whole gang of
->girls ... wasn't it just 3 or 4 in historical view, ) doing a ritual ,
->( that started off as a dance until the head girl, played by Wynonna
->Rider, grabbed the chicken and ripped it open to have blood squirting
->on her face ... then she started pulling off her clothes! ) What a
->falsehood ... the only thing noted, from what I read in Salem tourist
->information was that Tituba was from Barbados and she did tea leaf
->readings.. ( well, except in the movie, of course! )
-> None of the real cruelties were brought out
This movie was based on the play by Arthur Miller. If you find unconsistencies
blame it on the limits of stage production. I have heard the movie producers
tried to follow the play as closely as possible....
-> The man stoned to death ( the old man, ) chose not to say
->anything because if he had said anything ( as to if he was a witch or
You are talking about Giles Corey. He was pressed to death for not confessing,
not stoned. I learned this in school as well, as a New Englander, I got a lot
of exposure to the "Salem Witch Trials" in school and I heard many versions of
what happened, but this method of Giles Corey's execution was always
consistent.
-> I thought that the movie companies distorted some
->facts about witchcraft in the movie, The Craft out of sheer ignorance,
->but after seeing the movie, The Crucible, I seriously wonder if it
->wasn't out of hatred and spite!
Again it's based on the play. Why don't you read it and compare it to the
movie? I think I am going to. It's beena long time since I actually read the
whole thing, but I want to review it before I go see the movie.
->
-J
Stephanie Huffman Thebo
Grendela (gren...@aol.com) wrote:
> seeing it. does this just come with practice? and what if i falter or
> sut-ter during my chant - should i do it over? is it ok to read off a
> paper, or is it better to memorize ritual chanting? i really would like
> to work at this and become an effective wiccan, but tain't easy...
Sometimes I do the same thing. I mess up and wonder what to do. I just
usually laugh and go on. Sometimes I say stuff in my head-I did this a
lot when I first started. It was weird to hear my own voice casting the
circle at first.
> humph ok one last query: i live with my parents (a maid of 16 am i)
> and they disdain my generous use of incense :(, their complaint being
> it'll burn the house down (! trust me - incense can't burn squat, no
> matter how hard i try...). does anyone have any suggestions for an Air
> substitute?? (would a bowl full of air be suitable? ; ) )
As for the parents complaining about the incense-maybe use some scented
candles or a pouch with strong smelling herbs?
> fare thee well,
> grendela
You have a cool name.
Stephanie
sth...@indiana.edu
Wesley Gomes
On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 15:00:37 GMT, rom...@azstarnet.com wrote:
>wgo...@ix.netcom.com (Wesley Gomes) wrote:
>
>*On 28 Dec 1996 07:08:12 GMT, ne...@ix.netcom.com(Pan's Grove) wrote:
>
>*No offence, but you need to read up. The Crucible is a play written
>by
>*Artur Miller. This play isn't based on historical events. I have the
>*play/book and in the book there is a statement about the historical
>*aspect of the play, it talks about haveing to combine characters,
>*increasing ages, and dramatizing. So its not supposed to be
>*historicaly acurate. It's one man's interpretation.
>
>* Respectfuly Yours,
>* Wes
>*****************************************************************************************************
>One interesting fact about Arthur Miller is that he does not believe
>that Witches exist. At least that is what he said in a recent
>interview. He said this movie is about a time when people got
>histerical about something that does not even exist.
>
That I hadn't heard, learn something new every day.
Wes
vi...@ibm.net
To mince your words during a chant is not so much of a big deal unless you loose
total composure. It's truely the meaning of the words that matters not how you
say them. LIkewise it's not your burning of the incense that matters...as far as
I'm concerned you counld leave unlit if you want. You could use a knife, as tarot
would, why I once used a steak knife to symbolize air because I left my good one
at work.
They are symbols that are used to key you into your ritual nothing more. Use
whatever feels right. Make up your own runes if you feel like it so long as it
doesn't disconnect you from the power.
bb,
m
Jerry Armstrong nd Regina Cassady
> >> humph ok one last query: i live with my parents (a maid of 16 am i)
> >> and they disdain my generous use of incense :(, their complaint being
> >> it'll burn the house down (! trust me - incense can't burn squat, no
> >> matter how hard i try...). does anyone have any suggestions for an Air
> >> substitute?? (would a bowl full of air be suitable? ; ) )
> >
> >As for the parents complaining about the incense-maybe use some scented
> >candles or a pouch with strong smelling herbs?
> >
> >> fare thee well,
> >> grendela
> say them. LIkewise it's not your burning of the incense that matters...as far as
> I'm concerned you counld leave unlit if you want. You could use a knife, as tarot
> would, why I once used a steak knife to symbolize air because I left my good one
> at work.
>
> They are symbols that are used to key you into your ritual nothing more. Use
> whatever feels right. Make up your own runes if you feel like it so long as it
> doesn't disconnect you from the power.
>
> bb,
> m
Perhaps a pretty fan. I used to have a beautiful fan carved from
sandalwood. Or you could make and decorate it yourself so that it will
be more connected to you.
Brightest Blessings,
Regina
Tirion
So sorry that you had to blow six bucks to find this out. (hopefully
you hit the matinee and the cheap seats). I was forced to read this play
in High School and it was ghastly. It was just the cherry on the top of
an entire year I'd gnaw a leg off of to avoid again. :-)
Tirion
Tir...@aol.com
Mac
The interesting thing Nella, is that many film reviewers have given the
film excellent reviews. This, coupled with having seen the play, read
much on the historical events upon which it's based, and that original
author Arthur Miller did the screen play incites me to want to see it.
This is one of those instances where, had the film indeed been a blatant
blast on witches, or simply historically inaccurate, word would have
spread throughout this and other ngs, as well as the press (at least as
far as reviews go).
Karen McFarlin
> In article <5a3ck2$9...@news.azstarnet.com>, rom...@azstarnet.com says...
>
> >wgo...@ix.netcom.com (Wesley Gomes) wrote:
>
> >*On 28 Dec 1996 07:08:12 GMT, ne...@ix.netcom.com(Pan's Grove) wrote:
>
> >*No offence, but you need to read up. The Crucible is a play written
> >by
> >*Artur Miller. This play isn't based on historical events. I have the
> >*play/book and in the book there is a statement about the historical
> >*aspect of the play, it talks about haveing to combine characters,
> >*increasing ages, and dramatizing. So its not supposed to be
> >*historicaly acurate. It's one man's interpretation.
>
> >* Respectfuly Yours,
> >* Wes
> It's about the McCarthy hearings in the US in the 1950's. It isn't about
> witchcraft at all...
>
> Loki
Sometimes, dear lady, I think that many of these pagans do not read very much.
*/;)>
Cairns
loki
In article <karen-31129...@206.245.192.32>, ka...@snowcrest.net
says...
>*/;)>
>Cairns
Well, you may be right, but I'm tending to blame it on either youth or our
school system... ;)
I also think that releasing it now probably is a statement about our current
climate, but not sure if it's the PC police or the fundie police they're going
after this time...
Loki - who is only reading things on handfasting rituals lately...
Darklove
In article <5aavm7$g...@news1.mtholyoke.edu>, jbmi...@mtholyoke.edu says...
There weren't any "Real" witches in the crucible, 'cept maybe Tituba(sp)
--
Darklove
I don't really miss god, but I sure miss Santa Claus...
Mac
Yes, and your point is? I'll rephrase my last paragraph:
If the Crucible had indeed been a film, whose content was a blast on
witches INSTEAD of it's actualt intent, you can bet outrage from the
witch and pagan community would have spread as a wild fire does.
HOPE4196
Many people have read this play in high school. Also, by the response, it
seems that most of the people on this ng knew that The Crucible was based
on a play, so how did this become an attack on our school system?
The problem with our school system is that parents only want their
children exposed to specific literature. Once you disqualify all books
that are objectionable to someone's mom and dad, there isn't much left.
Every move and every word a teacher says is scrutinized. If teachers were
allowed to teach and parents took responsibility for parenting, education
would not be suffering the way it has.
By the way, kids are learning to read at earlier and earlier ages every
generation. Maybe they just want something better to read that is
controversial, but makes them think.
Hope
loki
In article <19970102022...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, hope...@aol.com
says...
>Hope
Well, I agree that it's the attacks on what is taught that is the biggest
danger to the educational system in this country.
As to the rest, I'm the daughter of a teacher. I've seen this from that view
for many years. I've seen the frustration of good teachers not being allowed
to teach properly. It's become, dot the I's cross the T's and get that lesson
plan in whether it's any good or not and whether the kids learn or not, pass
them and get them good scores on tests.
It's a mess.
Loki
ESandraft
Ye Gods! I am greatly saddened that, particularly in such a generally
well-educated community as paganism, anyone could so completely miss the
point of this movie! Please, please, original poster, please tell me you
have at least HEARD of that minor luminary, Arthur Miller, whose name is
emblazoned over every advertisement for this movie? Does the name "Death
of a Salesman" ring at least one bell, or is this another experience our
charming friend would gnaw off body parts to avoid? I am not an
intellectual snob--my interests range from Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai" back
to the occasionally awful "Highlander" series--but my first thought upon
hearing of this film was, "will they stay true to the script and content
of the original," not "Dude, I hope they portray witches accurately." To
those who sprang to the movie's defense--and history--many thanks. I'm
glad someone remembers.
Flame off.
FdAdm I. Mordant-Blake
ESandraft-
FYI, another little known deal about the new version of the Crucible:
Arthur Miller adapted the screenplay from his original work and added a
fifth act, to finish off the storyline for Wynona Ryder's character.
Also, in a fit of common sense hiring, Arthur Miller's son directed the
film! I do like it when they take the author into account when they make
a movie. It happens so rarely in Hollywood.
--
WOMBAT! (aka- Field Admiral I. Mordant-Blake: jpdoyle)
** Visit the Stellar Operations Command Homepage *** "This isn't **
* http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4162 <*> Reality: This is *
**Find out more about Interactive Fiction Writing*** Fantasy!"-Uhura **
Daniel Albano
adel...@kentvm.kent.edu wrote:
: In article <19961228014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
: gren...@aol.com (Grendela) writes:
:
: > a few nights ago (full moon), i cast my very first circle! but there
: >was a problem; something didn't feel quite right...for example, when i was
: >supposed to visualize energy forming the sphere, i had some difficulty
: >sut-ter during my chant - should i do it over? is it ok to read off a
: >paper, or is it better to memorize ritual chanting? i really would like
: >to work at this and become an effective wiccan, but tain't easy...
: Visualization comes with practice... when my visualizations skills weren't
: quite there, I always made sure to verbally affirm that I was within a
: sphere of energy.
Sphere? Why a sphere? How do you deal with the awkward
aspects of the shape? Why not use something easier?
- Daniel
--
"These are solely my opinions and observations - any organization
to which I belong will surely disagree with some of them."
Debra
It is a sphere because when you cast, you are casting to create a
sacred space between the worlds. It must be sealed, or you do not have
a sacred space. The sphere is the easiest shape to deal with, and should
be visualized so that is intersects with the earth at ground level at
it's widest point.
There are as many opinions on things as there are practitioners of
the craft, but in my experience, you can use "cheat cards" if you need
to. Also, if you are not practiced at doing circle, be sure you verbally
state your intent during your invocations, saying what you wish to do,
and closing the door on what you don't want, and also stating that you
desire no harm to come to anyone as a result of the spell. This is to
protect you from your own lack of experience.
The best thing to ensure you get what you want in circle is to have
spent a great deal of time clarifying in your own mind what it is you
want, and getting the visualization and parts of the ritual down in your
mind beforehand. This doesn't mean you have to have all the words
memorized, just that you know how the energy is supposed to flow.
Spellwork is all a matter of will, and the clearer your will and
intent going into it, the better the result. Liken it to clear vs. muddy
water.
I hope this helps.
Blessings to you,
Debra
Lilith V
HOPE4196 wrote:
<major snip>
um...could u guys stop critizing The Crucible Movie as i am in Australia
and WE the country have not had it shown here yet.......
spare a thought for us down under! now i'm gonna have all these
pretentions about the movie! jeez.....now i AM gonna have to see it. I
was gonna see it anyway..coz of Winona Ryder (she's a fav actress of
min..we share the same star sign: scorpio) :)
V.
--
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
"The journey can be long, the learning process hard
- but the benefits can be great!"
"WITCHCRAFT" magazine Issue1
http:/www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3672/
-0000-
Come to the Gold Coast-australia
\____________________________________________________/
HOPE4196
>HOPE4196 wrote:
><major snip>
>um...could u guys stop critizing The Crucible Movie as i am in Australia
>and WE the country have not had it shown here yet.......
>spare a thought for us down under! now i'm gonna have all these
>pretentions about the movie! jeez.....now i AM gonna have to see it. I
>was gonna see it anyway..coz of Winona Ryder (she's a fav actress of
>min..we share the same star sign: scorpio) :)
I am a little confused. I never criticized The Crucible. I only answered
something someone wrote about education being responsible for one persons
idiocy.
Hope
Alena19
<<we share the same star sign: scorpio) :)>>
Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
us... Muahahahaha..
August
_______________________________________________________________
"Q: How many legs does a dog have, if you call the tail a leg?
A: Four. Calling the tail a leg doesn't make it one."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Astrologer
On 3 Jan 1997 10:58:04 GMT, esan...@aol.com (ESandraft) wrote:
>Ye Gods! I am greatly saddened that, particularly in such a generally
>well-educated community as paganism, anyone could so completely miss the
>point of this movie! Please, please, original poster, please tell me you
>have at least HEARD of that minor luminary, Arthur Miller, whose name is
>emblazoned over every advertisement for this movie? Does the name "Death
>of a Salesman" ring at least one bell, or is this another experience our
>charming friend would gnaw off body parts to avoid?
It never would have occurred to me that any group of people could
hear of a new production of the Arthur Miller play (albeit in film
rather than stage), and to ignore the history of the play itself.
Whew!
It lends shocking credence to the oft quoted cliche about "how
Johnny can't read".
--Astrologer
The fates seldom forget the bargains made with them, or fail to ask for
compound interest. -- Edith Wharton
Karen Boelter
Sorry Astrologer, but I stand by what I wrote. I would prefer to gnaw
off body parts rather than be subjected to 'The Crucible' one more
time. I was forced (assigned) to read this play in 11th grade during a
semester on the Puritans in New England (early American liteature). The
teacher broke the class up into 'study groups' (6 of them) and each
group read a different play or story. We then gave a report on what we
had read. (The Crucible, The Scarlet Letter, Cotton Mathers biography,
etc.) Mz. Young then harangued us on what it actually meant (Dr.
Richardon at LSU and Dr. Robertson at LSU). She then wrote an essay
test expecting to have her words and (the 2 Dr. Rs) parroted back to
her.
(example question) Q: What does the poem Thanotopsis mean to you? (
A: Frankly nothing. It is blank verse with out rhyme or meter to make
it readable poetry. I am unable to read it as by the time I reach the
end of a sentence I am unable to remember what the beginning of it was.
I am sure it has some deep mystical meaning but I am unable to fathom
it.
Keep in mind that in the entire class most people got correct only
some of the questions pertaining to the material they actively read.
(the five questions on The Crucible were correctly answered only by the
Crucible Workgroup. Ditto the Scarlet Letter.)
I did not enjoy that year of High School.
Tirion
adel...@kentvm.kent.edu
In article <32D06B...@juno.com>
Debra <wyrdd...@juno.com> writes:
>
>It is a sphere because when you cast, you are casting to create a
>sacred space between the worlds. It must be sealed, or you do not have
>a sacred space. The sphere is the easiest shape to deal with, and should
>be visualized so that is intersects with the earth at ground level at
>it's widest point.
Anyway, what she said :-) A way that I practiced visualizing a sphere was to
visualize my aura; then visualize my aura brightening to a bright blue-white
light; then I would expand my aura around me in a sphere, kind of like a
balloon. Once you can picture *yourself* surround by a sphere of energy, it
is much easier to "push" that energy out to encircle (er, I mean ensphere, if
that's a word! :-) the room, or area where you are.
My sphere visualizations improved dramatically when I started enclosing my
car in a sphere of light when travelling... trust me, when you're in a car you
*want* a sphere :-) To do that, I visualized pentacles at each of the cardinal
points, and one above and one below; then I just expanded the pentacles until
they merged into a big net of energy around the car.
-Anne
Darklove
In article <17AEE1054...@kentvm.kent.edu>, adel...@kentvm.kent.edu
says...
>
> My sphere visualizations improved dramatically when I started enclosing my
>car in a sphere of light when travelling... trust me, when you're in a car
you
>*want* a sphere :-) To do that, I visualized pentacles at each of the
cardinal
>points, and one above and one below; then I just expanded the pentacles
until
>they merged into a big net of energy around the car.
That help? I've been looking for a way to protect my car. Got it back today!
--
Darklove
When you were two, I was under your bed...
Raven BlackBane
Darklove (dark...@a.crl.com) wrote:
Humm?
Me thinkith that this will not work against a Simi smashing into your
rear.
Rather obtain five quarts from the Aminzon region; in your driveway make a
pentacle from goat's blood and place one quarts on the perimeter at each
point. The pentacle should be large enough to place the car in. Make sure
that the top point faces north and have the car parked in that direction
too.
This should be done under a clear sky on a full moon. Leave the car
parked on the pentacle outside.
Inside, make another pentacle (drawn from pig's blood) in front of your alter
and light five black candles, made from goat's fat, then place one at each
point of the pentacle and place salt and oil in your chalice. With your
athame, cut a door at the north point and place your chalice within the
door and then call your insruance agent asking for more coverage.
Shez
In article <19970106050...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, Alena19
<ale...@aol.com> writes
Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------
Shemah
oh good grief, go back to where you came from, probably
alt.adolescents.immaturity
--
Shemah
http://www.westworld.com/~shemah
When you call a dog, he comes
A cat takes a message and gets back to you
Bob Ravenwren
hmmmmmmmm goats blood, sounds like a sick puppy to me.
Please you back from where you came. A cave.
Bright Blessings
Bob Ravenwren
Siobhan Burke
Shez <sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<6M9s39A$YR1y...@oldcity.demon.co.uk>...
> ><<we share the same star sign: scorpio) :)>>
> >
> > Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
> >us... Muahahahaha..
> >
> >
> > August
> >_______________________________________________________________
>
> Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
> --
> Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
> The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
Nor yet Leos. :)
Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
--
"A good many dramatic situations begin with screaming."
siobha...@worldnet.att.net
Siobhan M. Burke
Lomerana
Siobhan Burke wrote:
>
> Shez <sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> <6M9s39A$YR1y...@oldcity.demon.co.uk>...
>
> > ><<we share the same star sign: scorpio) :)>>
> > >
> > > Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
> > >us... Muahahahaha..
> > >
> > >
> > > August
> > >_______________________________________________________________
>
> >
> > Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
> > --
> > Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
> > The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Nor yet Leos. :)
>
> Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
And this cancer with a bunch of scorp influences merely admires them...
*sigh*
Lomerana
Darklove
In article <5atvqp$j...@bbs-1.anneli.com>, blac...@bbs-1.anneli.com says...
>
>Darklove (dark...@a.crl.com) wrote:
>
>
> Humm?
>
> Me thinkith that this will not work against a Simi smashing into your
>rear.
>
> Rather obtain five quarts from the Aminzon region; in your driveway make
a
>pentacle from goat's blood and place one quarts on the perimeter at each
>point. The pentacle should be large enough to place the car in. Make sure
>that the top point faces north and have the car parked in that direction
>too.
> This should be done under a clear sky on a full moon. Leave the car
>parked on the pentacle outside.
> Inside, make another pentacle (drawn from pig's blood) in front of your
alter
>and light five black candles, made from goat's fat, then place one at each
>point of the pentacle and place salt and oil in your chalice. With your
>athame, cut a door at the north point and place your chalice within the
>door and then call your insruance agent asking for more coverage.
You belong in a "Media Satanism" group.
Corvuequis
Can't you guys take a joke, I think that blackbane was just satyrizing
everyone use ofmagic for mundane situations. If you truly want to protect
your car use commen sense, Stay alert while driving, dont leave your keys
inside while parked and lock your doors. And sense Blood equals power and
money equals power does not blood equal money, Get your self some
insurance. And lighten up Jeez...
Michael O'Brien
In article <32D636...@lstud.ii.uib.no>, Lomerana
<s7...@lstud.ii.uib.no> writes
>> > Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
>> > --
>> > Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
>> > The 'Old Craft' lady http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Nor yet Leos. :)
>>
>> Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
>
>And this cancer with a bunch of scorp influences merely admires them...
>*sigh*
>
>Lomerana
But respect all others ;) then get bored and move on.
Huge <g>,
Krow
--
Michael O'Brien (mob...@mobvus.demon.co.uk)
"Lamh laidir an uachdar" (The Strong Hand From Above)
Lomerana
raven wrote:
>
> > > > > Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
> > > > >us... Muahahahaha..
> > > > > August
> > > > >_______________________________________________________________
> > > Nor yet Leos. :)
> > > Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
> > And this cancer with a bunch of scorp influences merely admires them...
> > *sigh*
> > Lomerana
>
> Hmmm. if you admire Scorpios, may I introduce you to a _double_
> Hello my dear Lomerana, I am The Raven, perhaps you have heard of
> me, if so, please don`t believe everything you hear.
>
> Raven - Double Scorpio, year of the Snake!
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I _always_ take word of scorpios with two kg of salt. My ascendant is
Scorpio; never trust my smile...... <grin> But aye, I have read the
words of others, and have read the words of The Raven, and my respect
for that Odin's creature colours my impression of you, I'm afraid..;)
Lomerana - Cancer, Scorpio Asc, Leo Moon (anyone like dramatic crying
scenes?), year of the fire dragon!
raven
> > > > Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
> > > >us... Muahahahaha..
> > > > August
> > > >_______________________________________________________________
> > > Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
> > > --
> > > Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Nor yet Leos. :)
> > Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> And this cancer with a bunch of scorp influences merely admires them...
> *sigh*
> Lomerana
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm. if you admire Scorpios, may I introduce you to a _double_
Hello my dear Lomerana, I am The Raven, perhaps you have heard of
me, if so, please don`t believe everything you hear.
Raven - Double Scorpio, year of the Snake!
--
"-when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door-"
(E.A.Poe 1845-49)
Rachel E.
tre...@panix.com (Tregare) wrote, in the "some questions
from a new witch" thread:
[snip re: grounding]
>Depending on where you are located it might also help, when grounding,
>to have some real dirt (earth) in a planter for real physical contact.
>Don't anyone laugh... but when I first moved to NYC I lived in a 6th
>floor walk-up on 8th Ave., the "ground" was at least 75 feet below me,
>and seeing as how there is a subway under 8th Ave., the "earth" was
>maybe 75-100 feet below that. One time when I had a lot of trouble
>grounding after a ritual I just sorta used the dirt in a planter that
>was sitting on one of my stereo speakers. I managed to ground fine,
>but after doing this a few times the plant died... in other words, if
>you do this, don't use a planter with a living plant ;-)
>Hope this helps
>Tregare
Which brings me to two of the questions I've been puzzling over
recently. And please, y'all, bear with me a bit - I've prolly
spent too much time online today, much of it trying to get
through the huge number of posts on this newsgroup. I probably
shouldn't be posting at all, but the questions have been sort
of building up for a while, and I guess now's as good a time
as any to start asking a few of them that I haven't already
seen answers to elsewhere.
With that in mind, does anyone have any recommendations
for -
A) A book that deals with how to do Wicca in an urban
environment, ie: grounding when you live 30 floors up,
and what to do with your offerings to the Goddess and
the God when you've got no earth to bury them in for a
good thirty miles, and how to cast a circle when you
don't have enough room in your apartment to mark the
points and still be inside the circle yourself, and
things like that.
B) A way to help myself develop a deeper appreciation
for nature. I like sunsets as much as anyone, and I like
being out in the woods, but there just aren't very many
woods around here, and it's rare that I have both the time
and the energy both at once to drive out to where they are.
Also, sadly, I tend to feel a bit frantic with thoughts of
other things I should be doing instead of "just sitting
here" enjoying the breeze and contemplating things. I know
there's really no way to develop that appreciation aside
from going out and doing it, but I wondered whether someone
else might have experienced the same difficulty. I really
-like- cities. On a beautiful spring day, most of the time
the place I most want to be is sitting at a little table
on the sidewalk at my favorite coffeehouse, which just
happens to be on a narrow and heavily trafficked street
right near downtown. The view across the street is of
old brick-fronted buildings which now house a bar, an
aikido dojo, and a comics shop. Down the road a ways
is a used bookstore and a field that seems to have no
purpose but to store earth-moving machines. There's
also what I think -used- to be a textiles mill. It may
still be being used for something, but I don't think so.
Anyway, I know it's probably, well, unchic at best, but
I really like this landscape. You'd be amazed at how
beautiful it can be if you can see and appreciate that
kind of beauty. Anyway, the question is, how do I do
this if I'm not really that much of a nature person,
or alternatively, how do I become a nature person?
See, it's really other aspects of Wicca that draw me
to it - the very participatory nature of it, the
appreciation of this life and all its joys and sorrows,
(what I see as) its exceptionally sane attitude towards
love and sexuality, the equality of gender, and things
like that. As much as I appreciated the posts in the
Dusty Altar, Rusty Athame thread about how all that's
really needed for many people to worship is to be out
in nature, that doesn't currently work for me. I feel
the glory of the creation, but I don't yet feel the
workings of the Goddess and the God, and the creation
itself isn't enough to help me to feel that. Too long
as an agnostic, I suppose, believing quite contentedly
that all this might very well be a complete accident,
with no power greater than ourselves looking on even
in bemusement, much less affection.
Hmm. Well, I think I've been babbling again, but Tregare
said in response to my first post that as long as I'm
speaking from what I feel, I can't -really- be babbling,
so I'll take comfort from that and close this while I
still can.
Regards (and hoping I've not offended anyone)!
-Rachel
Kitty Rowley
Rachel asked:
>With that in mind, does anyone have any recommendations
>for -
>
>A) A book that deals with how to do Wicca in an urban
>environment .... <snip>
I would recommend _The Urban Pagan_ by Patricia Telesco. This is the
blurb from 'Pandora's Bookshop' - but I've seen it at Barnes & Noble.
"Telesco, Patricia
THE URBAN PAGAN - $14.95
For those of us stuck in the city, helps us incorporate earth-aware
philosophies into our day-to-day living. Includes spells, rituals,
herbals, invocations, meditations and daily magical exercises.
>B) A way to help myself develop a deeper appreciation
>for nature. ....
<snip>
> .... I really
>-like- cities. On a beautiful spring day, most of the time
>the place I most want to be is sitting at a little table
>on the sidewalk at my favorite coffeehouse, ....<snip>...
[A lovely description of the beauties of the urban landscape followed
this.]
I happen to feel that one can find nature and beauty in the most urban of
landscapes. There is sky, clouds, rain, snow, wind, birds, trees, weeds,
flowers, squirrels, and so on. And the city itself has a beauty all its
own - as you have so expressively described. I think what is most
important is to find what resonates within your heart and soul.
Bright blessings,
Kitty.
<kkro...@uci.edu>
Lilith V
ThePeak999 wrote:
>
> Scorpio is a much maligned sign, methinks. Notice it's all about the
> occult *and* sex... any cosmic connections there, you think?
Lilith- hmmm..OUCH! that hurt! i'm not thinking ever again !! :D
> I've had very difficult relationships with Scorpios for most of my >life.
....etc
> But there IS one area (sex) that they have a good reputation in-- quite
> justly, I might add...
Lilith- and _I_ should no.. i AM Scorpio and damn proud of it ! :)
> Ermm... not that I speak from personal experience, or anything...
Lilith- yeah..ok I believe you.. :)
> ~Banlioghan, a nice quiet Capricorn megalomaniac Taoist type
Marjorie Rosen
ThePeak999 (thepe...@aol.com) wrote:
: Scorpio is a much maligned sign, methinks. Notice it's all about the
: occult *and* sex... any cosmic connections there, you think?
: I've had very difficult relationships with Scorpios for most of my life.
: Most of them have just SOOO much personal energy/ charisma/ whatever, that
: they don't know what to do with it and, while they're young at least, tend
: to be kind of hurricane-esque. This earns them the (incorrect) reputation
: of being insensitive, cruel-hearted freaks. This doesn't do justice to the
: Scorpio potential, IMHO.
: But there IS one area (sex) that they have a good reputation in-- quite
: justly, I might add...
Dear, you make me blush.......
BB
Marjorie
(On the cusp of Scorpio and Libra. Just makes me wishy-washy about
whether or not to rip your face off! <leer>)
Marjorie Rosen
In my own experience (being an Urban Pagan for quite a few years), you
really don't have to do a lot of special things. Anything with water
and/or salt can be sent down the sewers with a blessing that the Mother
take it and use the energy for Her needs. Candles left over from circles
can be used to meditate with. You can put out offerings from Cakes and
Wine on a window sill (piece of cake, splash of wine). I've buried *very*
few things and *never* thrown anything into a living body of water,
although that is what you're supposed to do.
For connecting to the earth and the Wheel, try growing a pot of cherry
tomatoes. Most people have a little patio or a sill that gets sun. Just
one or two pots of tomatoes are easy to handle and you'll see the day to
day flow! If you grow the red *and* the yellow, you'll have tasty and
colorful salads, too!
BB
Marjorie
HPs, Our Lady of the Sycamores
Shez
In article <853141...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>, raven
<ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk> writes
>> > > > Yeeeeeeaaah!! Scorps are the best...people just get so afraid of
>> > > >us... Muahahahaha..
>> > > > August
>> > > >_______________________________________________________________
>> > > Not Sagitarians love.(chuckle)
>> > > --
>> > > Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Nor yet Leos. :)
>> > Siobhan, Leo born in the year of the Tiger.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> And this cancer with a bunch of scorp influences merely admires them...
>> *sigh*
>> Lomerana
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hmmm. if you admire Scorpios, may I introduce you to a _double_
> Hello my dear Lomerana, I am The Raven, perhaps you have heard of
> me, if so, please don`t believe everything you hear.
>
> Raven - Double Scorpio, year of the Snake!
>
Beleive it , its all true, he is a full scale rascal, and if you fall
for his blandishments you will end up on the end of his trophy pole as
another notch.
ThePeak999
The following post/ thread is presuming you actually give some credence to
the idea of astrology being a useful divination tool. If not, oh well.
>Dear, you make me blush.......
>
>BB
>
>Marjorie
>
>(On the cusp of Scorpio and Libra. Just makes me wishy-washy about
>whether or not to rip your face off! <leer>)
Well, actually astrology doesn't work that way. You're either one or the
other. Of course, your sun sign isn't the whole of your personality, so if
you're a Scorpio sun sign, you likely have other planets in Libra and
other signs, so you may exhibit *some* of that sign's attributes.
But as Debbie Kempton-Smith- a fine astrologer who wrote a most
user-friendly book about the subject- put it, you wouldn't want your
surgeon to think your heart and your lungs are the same thing just cause
they're next to each other, so wouldn't you want your astrologer to follow
suit? :)
~Banlioghan, who is dating someone who can't decide if he's a Cancer or
Gemini
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"God is a mountain, and each religion is a path to the Peak."-- from the Vedas, Hindu scripture.
babalon
corvu...@aol.com (Corvuequis) wrote:
well, i dunno about the beginnings of this thread, *but*
i do know that our cars are protected *both* mundanely *and*
magically.
it's effective. we've had several instances where cars around us
were smashed and burgled, or tagged (snow emergency) or towed (snow
emergency) or other bad things happen and our car was left alone. i
think that the protection basically allowed our car to go unnoticed by
whoever was doing the unpleasantness.
makes practical sense to me... ;)
*babalon*
it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. it is by the beans of
java the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking
becomes a warning. it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
-CJ Stone
Marjorie Rosen
ThePeak999 (thepe...@aol.com) wrote:
: >
: >Marjorie
: >(On the cusp of Scorpio and Libra. Just makes me wishy-washy about
: >whether or not to rip your face off! <leer>)
: Well, actually astrology doesn't work that way. You're either one or the
: other. Of course, your sun sign isn't the whole of your personality, so if
: you're a Scorpio sun sign, you likely have other planets in Libra and
: other signs, so you may exhibit *some* of that sign's attributes.
: But as Debbie Kempton-Smith- a fine astrologer who wrote a most
: user-friendly book about the subject- put it, you wouldn't want your
: surgeon to think your heart and your lungs are the same thing just cause
: they're next to each other, so wouldn't you want your astrologer to follow
: suit? :)
The concept of cusps is a *very* traditional one. I don't understand
someone saying that if you were born at 12:01 your entire chart is *thus*
even though two minuites before you would have been *this* instead. In my
experience (and I am *not* a trained astrologer!), I've seen the
difference between those of us born within three days of the sign change
and those born well within the sign.
The book I recommend for my students is ASTROLOGY FOR YOURSELF.
Unfortunately, I can't recall the author. It give a good, fairly
understandable overview on the subject. You can also get an inexpensive
chart through them.
omaeha
does the movie really suck? I've been worried that when its released down here
that it could have an adverse affect on me at school, work or anywhere else.
I'm not openly wiccan but I do wear a pentagram and I just hope people don't
get ideas from "The Crucible" and make the fight to show Witches as good
people take a giant leap backwards. I know The Crucible is pro-humanity in the
sense that it shows just what beliefs can make people do to other people but
its still pretty anti-witch in the sense that there are accounts of girls
dancing round naked with "the devil" and does nothing to show it as utter
bullshit. I don't know, perhaps I'm just wrong on my view of "The Crucible"
and perhaps the movie will have no adverse affects on us - who knows.
Love and light - Meg
North Star Wanderers
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7592
raven
> Scorpio is a much maligned sign, methinks. Notice it's all about the
> occult *and* sex... any cosmic connections there, you think?
They are two *very* interesting, if not neccessaraly related topics.
>
> I've had very difficult relationships with Scorpios for most of my life.
> Most of them have just SOOO much personal energy/ charisma/ whatever, that
Thanks! :)
> they don't know what to do with it
Hmmmm. How many Scorpios *have* you met? the only time you will truely
find a Scorpio in that position is when there is nothing that can be
done, then they tend to turn inward and, unless they channel it properly
they can get self-destructive.
> and, while they're young at least, tend to be kind of hurricane-esque.
> This earns them the (incorrect) reputation of being insensitive,
> cruel-hearted freaks.
Don`t be fooled, *every* Scorpio can be insensitive and cruel when it
suits them to be, just as they can be the kindest most caring person
you have ever met, again when it suits them.
> This doesn't do justice to the Scorpio potential, IMHO.
Correct this is just touching on part of a single aspect.
>
> But there IS one area (sex) that they have a good reputation in-- quite
> justly, I might add...
>
Again thanks! but don`t say it too loud, we don`t want to frighten
my little Loki now, do we ;)
> Ermm... not that I speak from personal experience, or anything...
>
Hmmmm. Capricorns!!!!....No, I`ll be nice.
Though I do find the Capricornians apparent enjoyment of being
depressed rather amusing, you seem to relish a good Wallow!
> ~Banlioghan, a nice quiet Capricorn megalomaniac Taoist type
--
Raven BlackBane
OH NO!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to report this crappy posting to my provider
and your provider. I'm going to call the hot line for the Movie FBI abuse
department and report this matter. Yes sirry little ones, Micky will come to
vist you with his rubber sheild and ask all sorts of Movie questions while
looking real hard at your tits. Then he'll turn around with his X-file bro
and suck real hard on his Salem as they hop away into the setting sun.
You know what I like about those X-file want-a-be, after the sysop told
them where I lived they told me it took them all day to find my house.
Are they bright or what? They even asked me what was my home phone number, I
told them I don't own a phone, they go "That's all right mamm, we just need
the number to your house".
raven
s7...@lstud.ii.uib.no "Lomerana" writes:
> I _always_ take word of scorpios with two kg of salt.
I suppose the word of a double Scorpio would be taken with four?
> My ascendant is Scorpio; never trust my smile...... <grin>
Only another from Pluto`s realm can read such an elusive signal
> But aye, I have read the words of others, and have read the words of
> The Raven, and my respect for that Odin's creature colours my impression
> of you, I'm afraid..;)
But, my dear, you have no reason *to* be afraid...yet ;)
>
> Lomerana - Cancer, Scorpio Asc, Leo Moon (anyone like dramatic crying
> scenes?), year of the fire dragon!
>
Leo moon....OK, focuses spotlight on Lomerana standing center stage
with typical Arian moon tact and subtlety!
loki
In article <853717...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>, ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk
says...
[snip]
>> But there IS one area (sex) that they have a good reputation in-- quite
>> justly, I might add...
> Again thanks! but don`t say it too loud, we don`t want to frighten
> my little Loki now, do we ;)
[snip]
Darling, that doesn't frighten me, I'm counting on it!
Loki
Stephen Jahner
In article <U1Q3pmBC...@oldcity.demon.co.uk>,
Shez,isn't that rather painful for him?
Mithuma,Gemini with Virgo rising
Amber MoonDancer
Well I am glad I am not the only double Scorpio out there.
Born during dark moon in the year of the rat...(yech)
Insanity is the best policy--just ask me.
loki
In article <01bc0594$8008f2a0$LocalHost@default>, dca...@cdsnet.com says...
>Well I am glad I am not the only double Scorpio out there.
>Born during dark moon in the year of the rat...(yech)
>Insanity is the best policy--just ask me.
Oh grief! TWO double scorpio's???
I may not be able to take this, but it should be fun to watch!!!
Loki - wondering just how silly this will get! :)
KataMan
Hail,
So how does one know if one is a double scorpio? I believe I am
not, but then so what? I am still a scorpio, born on Samhain during the
Year of the Metal Ox.
Kataman
Shez
In article <853713...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>, raven
<ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk> writes
> s7...@lstud.ii.uib.no "Lomerana" writes:
>
>> I _always_ take word of scorpios with two kg of salt.
>
> I suppose the word of a double Scorpio would be taken with four?
>
>> My ascendant is Scorpio; never trust my smile...... <grin>
>
> Only another from Pluto`s realm can read such an elusive signal
>
>> But aye, I have read the words of others, and have read the words of
>> The Raven, and my respect for that Odin's creature colours my impression
>> of you, I'm afraid..;)
>
> But, my dear, you have no reason *to* be afraid...yet ;)
>>
>> Lomerana - Cancer, Scorpio Asc, Leo Moon (anyone like dramatic crying
>> scenes?), year of the fire dragon!
>>
> Leo moon....OK, focuses spotlight on Lomerana standing center stage
> with typical Arian moon tact and subtlety!
I like aries, my hubby is one, they are the cave man type on one hand,
and highly cerebal on the other. what more could I ask for.
Me I am Sagatarius trined, We like all the other signs.
Shez
In article <5bvvki$1...@tkhut.sojourn.com>, Stephen Jahner
<sja...@sojourn.com> writes
he. he.
Caroline Jones
A friend of mine has just had a ring put through the end of his - give
me a piece of string and I have him _completely_ under control.....!!
--
Caroline
Shez
In article <5buf71$ev6$1...@news1.inlink.com>, loki <lo...@inlink.com>
writes
Tut Tut, Loki ,keep this up and I will have to start being your
chaperone again.
Lomerana
raven wrote:
>
> s7...@lstud.ii.uib.no "Lomerana" writes:
>
> > I _always_ take word of scorpios with two kg of salt.
>
> I suppose the word of a double Scorpio would be taken with four?
I wouldn't dare... it might sting...
> > My ascendant is Scorpio; never trust my smile...... <grin>
>
> Only another from Pluto`s realm can read such an elusive signal
So elusive I'm not really sure *what* it meant..
> > But aye, I have read the words of others, and have read the words of
> > The Raven, and my respect for that Odin's creature colours my impression
> > of you, I'm afraid..;)
>
> But, my dear, you have no reason *to* be afraid...yet ;)
Fear and respect are not necessarily the same thing.
> > Lomerana - Cancer, Scorpio Asc, Leo Moon (anyone like dramatic crying
> > scenes?), year of the fire dragon!
> >
> Leo moon....OK, focuses spotlight on Lomerana standing center stage
Leo moon preens, Scorp ascendant looks as if she's never done anything
else, and Cancer sun is so shocked she wants to hide in the furthest
corner.
> with typical Arian moon tact and subtlety!
Hm. Is powerful, looks powerful, and gets violent moodswings? Ouch.
> "-when, with many a flirt and flutter,
> In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore.
> Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
> But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door-"
> (E.A.Poe 1845-49)
Lomerana
raven
The term double Scorpio, refers to the fact that both the sun and
the ascendent are in Scorpio. Your ascendent is determined by which
sign was on the horison at your moment of birth, to work this out
you would need to refer firstly to an ephemeris for the sidereal time
on your date of birth (a tool to enable the houses to be listed on but
a single table), then adding that time to the time of your birth and
looking the resultant time up in the correct table for your place of
birth.
Alternatly find someone that knows how to and give them your time,
date, place of birth and wait for them to do the working out.
--
raven
> Tut Tut, Loki ,keep this up and I will have to start being your
> chaperone again.
It wouldn`t work grannie dearest, she is firmly in the clutches of
the NGs master anti-chaperone!
Arabella and Mithuma may be still under your sway but I have a team
of de-programmers waiting for them should they ever wander far ;)
Rachel E.
Hello again!
I just wanted to thank y'all for your help and encouragement.
As soon as I have the cash, I'm going to pick up a copy of
_The Urban Pagan_, which sounds like it'll be very helpful.
I feel sometimes as though I have to trick myself into doing
the things that I think will help me understand myself on a
spritual level (as opposed to a psychological or practical
one) - my sister and I talked about it some, and she thought
I might be having a bit of trouble from what she called (I
think) the Guardian On The Threshold - or that which wants
to maintain the status quo, no matter how much I want to
move into new territories. Reading helps me work my way
past that guardian, I guess because in reading I can allow
myself to explore without "really" -doing- anything about
it. The next step, I guess, will be to tell the guardian
to sod off and to become more active.
I'm a bit afraid of rushing into Wicca, in part because
it seems disrespectful of both the people who -have- really
studied and are commited -and- of the powers involved. On
the other hand, if I go ahead and make a commitment (ooo -
and me being all commitment-phobic) I might feel obligated
to continue on this path (which I think may be right for me,
but have yet to -feel- my way through) at least long enough
to discover whether it is right for me, and that the feeling
of obligation would be stronger than the will to not change
(suddenly this sounds kinda like I'm saying "well, if we
got -married-, though, I'm sure all our problems would go
away"... not good).
Were y'all all certain your chosen path was the right one
-before- you made that step?
Thanks ever so -
Rachel
Holiday
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 05:03:56 GMT, rc...@mindspring.com (Rachel E.)
wrote:
[To paraphrase]: Am I ready to commit myself to a Wiccan path? How do
I know when I'm ready?
Dear Rachel,
If you start along a Wiccan path, and find that it is not for you, you
can simply walk away! If you are involved with a group of people who
would get upset if you stopped practicing Wicca, *run away-- fast!*
Controlling people like that will never gather together "in perfect
love and perfect trust."
Most people spend a lot of time researching, meditating and praying
before dedicating themselves to a *particular* God or Goddess, but I
firmly believe you do not have to jump through hoops to be able to
consider yourself Wiccan. You need only to believe that there is a God
and a Goddess, live by the Wiccan Rede, respect the Law of Three and
respect (if not learn) the art of magic. If I have just described you,
you are on your way!
Blessings,
Holiday
Lerion Silverhawk
M*M Rachel!
rc...@mindspring.com (Rachel E.) wrote:
> Hello again!
>
> I'm a bit afraid of rushing into Wicca, in part because
> it seems disrespectful of both the people who -have- really
> studied and are commited -and- of the powers involved.
You make it sound like you're afraid of alienating those of us
who are authorities in Wicca. There are no such authorities,
because there are many kinds of Wicca -- maybe even as many
kinds as there are Wiccans.
Regarding the powers involved, they are patient, understanding,
and (mostly) forgiving. Besides, it's not really possible to
disrespect something greater than you. The entire concept of
"disrespect" is based in fragile egos and overactive hormones.
The God and Goddess have neither.
The only way to get your feet wet is to step into the pool.
Come on in. The water's fine!
> On the other hand, if I go ahead and make a commitment (ooo -
> and me being all commitment-phobic) I might feel obligated
> to continue on this path (which I think may be right for me,
> but have yet to -feel- my way through) at least long enough
> to discover whether it is right for me, and that the feeling
> of obligation would be stronger than the will to not change
> (suddenly this sounds kinda like I'm saying "well, if we
> got -married-, though, I'm sure all our problems would go
> away"... not good).
And I thought the *German* language was prone to long sentences :) .
One thing about making a committment to the Wicca religion is that
your soul won't burn in hell if you decide to recind that
committment at a later time. There is absolutely nothing wrong
with a trial period. In fact, some groups *enforce* a trial period.
Your obligation should be to what is good for you. Becoming Wiccan
is not like a marriage. It's more like a commonlaw relationship.
You don't have to take any "vows" until you're ready.
> Were y'all all certain your chosen path was the right one
> -before- you made that step?
When I made the choice it was a choice *against* the path which had
been previously forced upon me. I was certain that change was right.
I wasn't certain until later that the change I made was the right one.
Your mileage may differ.
B*B
Silverhawk
*******************************************************
* Lerion Silverhawk * slvr...@arrowweb.com *
*-----------------------------------------------------*
* There is no power greater than love and no *
* magick greater than the human imagination *
*******************************************************
Marjorie Rosen
Merry Meet, Rachel!
First of all, your sister knows what she's talking about! Guardians
plague all of us at different times and in different ways. Just keep
going and soon you'll wonder what on earth bothered you so much. :-)
You're going to be taking your first step in the Craft: that of
Dedication. What are you dedicating yourself to? Well, what you should be
doing is dedicating yourself to the path of inner knowledge. Is Wicca the
right path for you? You really *don't* know yet. Maybe it is and you'll
run straight into the arms of the Goddess and stay there for the rest of
your life. Maybe it isn't and you'll continue on your path with more
knowledge and wisdom than you had before. Either way, you'll have the aid
of the Gods in finding that path. The Gods are there for you. They love
you and want to help you. Take them up on their offer!
Blessed Be and keep in touch with us!
Rachel E.
slvr...@arrowweb.com (Lerion Silverhawk) wrote:
>M*M Rachel!
To you as well!
[snip]
>Regarding the powers involved, they are patient, understanding,
>and (mostly) forgiving. Besides, it's not really possible to
>disrespect something greater than you. The entire concept of
>"disrespect" is based in fragile egos and overactive hormones.
>The God and Goddess have neither.
Hmm... I'd never thought of it like that. I guess that's
true. Maybe I'm more grounded in Christian assumptions and
views of the divine than I was aware of. Thanks for pointing
that out - I'll have to process that for a bit. It's rather
comforting, though, and makes a lot of sense.
[snip]
>And I thought the *German* language was prone to long sentences :) .
Heh. Well, my maternal grandfather was German, so maybe
there's a connection there. Or maybe it was all those
lit courses I took in college.
:)
-Rachel
Rachel E.
marj...@netcom.com (Marjorie Rosen) wrote:
>Merry Meet, Rachel!
>First of all, your sister knows what she's talking about!
:) I adore her.
>Guardians
>plague all of us at different times and in different ways. Just keep
>going and soon you'll wonder what on earth bothered you so much. :-)
I spend a certain amount of time trying to to either
sneak past or overpower the critter. I'll keep trying.
Maybe I could outwit it. :)
>You're going to be taking your first step in the Craft: that of
>Dedication. What are you dedicating yourself to? Well, what you should be
>doing is dedicating yourself to the path of inner knowledge. Is Wicca the
>right path for you? You really *don't* know yet. Maybe it is and you'll
>run straight into the arms of the Goddess and stay there for the rest of
>your life. Maybe it isn't and you'll continue on your path with more
>knowledge and wisdom than you had before. Either way, you'll have the aid
>of the Gods in finding that path. The Gods are there for you. They love
>you and want to help you. Take them up on their offer!
Thank you - I needed to hear that. Boy, that bit about
"Maybe...you'll run straight into the arms of the Goddess
and stay there for the rest of your life" sounds very
nice right about now.
>Blessed Be and keep in touch with us!
Thank you again -
Rachel
Shez
In article <854218...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>, raven
<ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk> writes
>> Tut Tut, Loki ,keep this up and I will have to start being your
>> chaperone again.
>
> It wouldn`t work grannie dearest, she is firmly in the clutches of
> the NGs master anti-chaperone!
>
> Arabella and Mithuma may be still under your sway but I have a team
> of de-programmers waiting for them should they ever wander far ;)
Never count your chickens dear,
and as for Arabella and Mithuma , how long do you think it will take to
deprogram the deprogramers with those ladies flashing their eyes.
Hentai
raven <ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<854221...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>...
> Well met,
> The term double Scorpio, refers to the fact that both the sun and
> the ascendent are in Scorpio. Your ascendent is determined by which
> sign was on the horison at your moment of birth, to work this out
> you would need to refer firstly to an ephemeris for the sidereal time
> on your date of birth (a tool to enable the houses to be listed on but
> a single table), then adding that time to the time of your birth and
> looking the resultant time up in the correct table for your place of
> birth.
> Alternatly find someone that knows how to and give them your time,
> date, place of birth and wait for them to do the working out.
Wouldn't that mean that a "double" anything would be someone born within a
half hour of dawn, either way?
-Hentai
ToasTie212
I kinda wonder how seriously you guys can be taking this. I come in here
to try and help some one find some answers, and wind up finding a sort of
"chat" room. If any one reading this is genuine in belief, please, if you
could help me locate Silver Ravenwolf, your efforts would be greatly
appreciated.
ToasTie
raven
sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk "Shez" writes:
> Never count your chickens dear,
> and as for Arabella and Mithuma , how long do you think it will take to
> deprogram the deprogramers with those ladies flashing their eyes.
Quite a while, as I`m not stupid enough to be using male deprogramers!
Lara Light
Greetings ToasTie!
Silver RavenWolf lives in PA. You can write to her at:
Silver RavenWolf
WPPA
P.O. Box 1392
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
If you send her a SASE she will reply. Blessed Be!
Love and Light. . .
Lara Light
Shez
In article <854675...@greywolf.demon.co.uk>, raven
<ra...@greywolf.demon.co.uk> writes
> sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk "Shez" writes:
>
>> Never count your chickens dear,
>> and as for Arabella and Mithuma , how long do you think it will take to
>> deprogram the deprogramers with those ladies flashing their eyes.
>
> Quite a while, as I`m not stupid enough to be using male deprogramers!
Well you wouldnt be stupid enough to use females now would you, You know
what we women are like, especialy the deprograming types,
give it 10 min, and they will come out converted chaperones,
Your face would be a delight to watch at that moment. ( chuckle)
Soaring Eagle
hol...@getnet.com (Holiday) wrote:
>Dear Rachel,
>Blessings,
>Holiday
I am fairly new to Wicca and I just want to "second" Holiday's words
of wisdom, Rachel.
In order to test the water, you have to touch it. You need to do the
same with Wicca. Lots of reading and research will help. Then, reach
out to the Goddess -- and she will be waiting for you!
I have not memorized fancy rituals and I am following the solitary
way, and Her presence is real. Keep your heart open and worshipful.
Blessed Be!
Soaring Eagle