CHALLENGE to Gakkai about Toda and Makiguchi.
Brian
were former presidents Makiguchi and Toda imprisoned in 1943 and not
earlier?
If you can't compose on your own, you may cut and past, as long as you
agree with the contents of your reply. Ideally, people should attach
their real names, if they have the conviction to stand behind what
they write.
Brian Rahilly
Brian
Cody
Cody
"Brian" wrote
dc
Brian Rahilly<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You are challenging the "gakkai" but I will take a crack at it since they
seem to not have answered you.
Makiguchi's writings were of a academic nature. He was not an activist, he
was a theoretician. The Soka kyoiku Gakkai, "Kaichi Sozo" publication
during the preceeding period before his arrest, carried theoretical articles
that also criticized the value of self sacrifice to the state. It was in
the late 30's when Prime Minister Konoe began to create the Greater East
Asia Co-prosperity Sphere Makiguchi criticized this in 1937:
Such as:
Striving for minor good is unacceptable to the brave-hearted
who do not settle for minor good and minor evil. There are
those in current leadership who are respected by the public.
Upon close examination, howe ve r, their ignoble nature is
revealed despite the magnificent façade. For this reason the new
Konoe administration is not able to fully live up to its ideals. It
cannot transcend its own self-serving individualism under the
veneer of conducting greater good. Those who are actively
engaged in public programs today, including political parties and
groups, educational circles, economic organizations, and charity
organizations, who profess to serve the public interest are
actually involved in unspeakably corrupt behavior behind closed
doors.. Even educators and religionists are unaware of their
own hypocrisy and self-righteous egotism as they confine their
interests narrowly to their own schools, temples or circles. They
a re showe red with abundant respect from the public for
advocating selfless devotion to the great good, yet they are
poisoning society with what is ultimately great evil. ("The
Significance and Possibilities of the New Administration's Ideal,
the Life in Pursuit of Greater Good")
Prime minister Kanoe, whose regime is being criticized above, later resigned
and Tojo took over. Kanoe was a critic of Tojo's policies but was no angel
and when he was about to be busted for war crimes, commit Harikari in 1945.
Makigcuhi was arrested for violating the 1925 Public Security Preservation
Law for blasphemy.. IN this document above he also says, "I be lieve that
the China Incident and the Greater East Asia War was caused by Japan's
slander of the True Law."*
*"The Significance and Possibilities of the New Administration's Ideal, the
Life of Greater Good." Testimonial Records of Lives Pursuing Greater Good.
Vol. 10 of The Complete Works of Tsunesaburo Makiguchi. Tokyo: Daisan
Bunmeisha, 1987. 136.
I think it is accurate to say that Makiguchi was not an activist----he was
not a very powerful force, having only a handful of followers, until late
1943 that the arrests of disidents was stepped up just as Japan was
realizing they were getting their ass kicked.. They did not begin strict
enforcment on such a wide scale, until the purges in 1943.
Makiguchi viewed the focus on economic competition as detrimental to Japan
and theorized about the greater values of Humanitarianism. He was still
supportive of the state protecting itself, but saw that as a inevitable
reality of the lower stage of evolution of the imperialist ideals. He will
still nationalistic but saw that necessary nationalism as a stage leading to
world cooperation based in the Humanism of Value Creation.
This point of view is also expressed in:
"Japan. Ministry of Domestic Affairs Police and Public Peace Bureau.
Excerpted Records of the Interrogation of the Soka Kyoiku Gakkai President
Tsunesaburo Makiguchi. The Monthly Reports of the Special Higher Police.
August 1943."
dc
dc
Makaiguchi was not anti-Emperor. He was apparently very much traditional in
terms of serving the state and the nation and the Emperor, but he was
against the recent use of State Shinto by the Military government, to
enforce worship of the Shinto Talismans, considering them as not true fealty
to the Emperor. He saw the Emperor as the ultimate symbol of Japan and the
Shinto talismans as meaningless. Nichiren also was nationistic and tended
to be more supportive of the traditional fealty to tot he Emperor, then to
the various governments who took control away from the emperor--thus
Nichiren's writings which promotes the Emeperors conversion to True Buddhism
and his view that converting the Emperor was the way to Kosen Rufu.
Makiguchi was a very tradtionalist Japanese.
Throughout Japanese history, their were many periods of time when the
Emeprror's power was usurped by the lower government, shoguns etc. Nichiren
was idelaistic in terms of the Emperor, so was Makiguchi This was the more
traditional Japanese ideal.
The film maker Kurosawa was also a big critic of the various government but
still a traditionalist in temrs of mainting Japanese cultural ideals.
Brian Victoria wrties:
"Makiguchi's refusal to worship a talisman of the Sun
Goddess did not even signify a lack of respect for this alleged progenitress
of the Imperial
family. Makiguchi made this clear when he told the police:
'The Sun Goddess is the venerable ancestress of our Imperial Family, her
divine virtue having been transmitted to each successive emperor who
ascended
the throne up to and including the present emperor. Thus has her virtue been
transformed into the August Virtue of His Majesty which, shining down on
the people, brings them happiness. It is for this reason that Article III of
the
Constitution states: The person of the Emperor is sacred and inviolable.
Just as we [association members] recognize the fundamental unity of filial
piety and loyalty, so it is our conviction that it is proper to reverently
venerate
His Majesty based on the monistic view that His Majesty, the Emperor is One
and Indivisible [Tenn‘ Ichigen-ron], thus making it unnecessary to pay
homage at the Grand Shrine at Ise. . . .In light of this, who is there,
apart from His Majesty, the Emperor himself, to whom we should reverently
pray?' (Akashi & Matsåra, eds. 1975:174-175).
Brian Victoria continues:
"In fact, nowhere in Makiguchi's writings, either before or during the war,
either in
prison or out, do we find any statements critical of Japan's wartime
policies. On the
contrary, not only did Makiguchi justify Japan's colonial takeover of Korea
(and earlier
war with Russia), but he devoted his entire life as an educator to devising
more effective
ways of instilling service to the state in Japanese children. He further
advocated that
these same children thoroughly understand that loyal service to their
sovereign is
synonymous with love of country. Even after imprisonment, he affirmed that
loyalty to
the emperor was but a natural part of the Way of the Subject based on his
understanding
of the Lotus Sutra. And, as we have seen, as far as the emperor was
concerned, Makiguchi
asked, Who is there, apart from His Majesty, the Emperor himself, to whom we
should
reverently pray?
For apologists to now claim that, his imprisonment and death
notwithstanding,
Makiguchi resisted or opposed Japan's war effort is an attempt to turn night
into day."
I think Brian Victoria's article is valid in terms of the content he puts
together, but he seems to be creating a criteria of a Perfect Peace-Nik, he
is trying to get Makiguchi to live up to and does not at all deal with the
effects of cultural conditioning of Japan. He is attempting to take
Makiguchi out of the context of the heavily imprinted Japanese culture
which includes nationalism and the traditional Kokutai attitude. One could
write a similar criticism of Nichiren.
We have to keep in mind that cultural conditioning is very powerful.
Makiguchi's idea of greater and lesser good and greater or lesser evil. is
very applicable, that he himself also fell into the trap of promoting lesser
good himself, in terms of his Nationalistic bent, is like Nichiren's
traditionalist bent, a natural phenomena that only proves they were
imperfect people within a particular context, but still aiming at a higher
ideal.
Thomas Jefferson was a great man who kept slaves--he was against inequality
on paper, but was still part of a context of social practices and cultural
conditiioning.
Nichiren was a Peace Nik who let it slip that certain people be
beheaded...and was probably not as outspoken as he should have been,
whatever expose can be written about Makiguchi, is one of spin, based on an
imagined criteria of perfection of the perfect Peace Nik.. He still died
in prison.
Where are the perfect Peace Niks? Aim a gun at them and see them defend
themselves in an imperfect world.
Type "Gandhi" into Google and to the right you will see the little Box which
reads, "Gandhi---Find the Lowest Price! Comparison Shop at www.......etc"
Thats the world we are in now.
Who are the true activists ready to die?
dc
dannyc
Why is this important? Am I missing something? Why do you think they were
imprisoned when they were?
On 17 Aug 2003 17:20:02 -0700, brianr...@videotron.ca (Brian) wrote:
:Your are invited to answer the question (in 250 words or less): why
Brian
> Brian
>
> Why is this important? Am I missing something? Why do you think they were
> imprisoned when they were?
It is important in light of the recent film called "Embattled
Buddhists" and the new characterization of the Soka Gakkai. A lot is
made of the social activist mission of Nichiren Daishonin and the two
first presidents of the Soka Gakkai.
Why, after six years of hostilities, was it only then that these two
were finally dealt with? Finding the answers may reveal a lot more
than what we suspect, or even want to know.
Brian
dc
Brian<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It is just PR. naturally they want to present themsleves in the best light
possible. Naturally we don't need to pull out the dirty laundry and
developmental stages in "public."
What is good for the goose would then have to be good for the gander. They
will fight forever in this mindless embrace.
dc
Brian
about this, it is a Gakkai film) the first president, Makiguchi, and
the group he founded, Soka Kyoiku Gakkai, are shown to have struggled
against the oppressive and militaristic government of Japan.
Makiguchi's martyrdom was the final act from that era when the Gakkai
were persecuted by the authorities for their humanitarian efforts to
"empower" the people and for their anti-war stance. The alledged cause
for Makiguchi's death was his position on the war, which was in total
opposition to the imperialistic attitude prevelant in the government
and the wealthy elite.
If this is so, then why did it take the authorities six years to put
him away?
There was no backlog of radicals, that the authorities were rounding
up, allowing for the Gakkai to continue on their own way. Neither was
it because the Gakkai were only small potatoes; one would think that a
strongly united group of socially relevant people, such as school
teachers, couldn't go un-noticed, and, Makuguchi was a well known
author and thinker, and not just to a narrow group of academics, he
was really widely read. Something didn't happen between 1937 until
1943, and something else did happen in 1943 that prompted the arrests.
What was it, and why is today's Gakkai distorting these events?
Brian
dc
up, allowing for the Gakkai to continue on their own way. Neither was
it because the Gakkai were only small potatoes; one would think that a
strongly united group of socially relevant people, such as school
teachers, couldn't go un-noticed, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I think they were very small potatoes. And the government really didn't get
going with their arrests until 1943
and, Makuguchi was a well known<<<<<<<<<
I don't think he was well known at all. At that time there were so many New
relgions and new greoups Makiguchi was justy one of hundreds of new groups.
author and thinker, and not just to a narrow group of academics, he
was really widely read. <<<<<<<<<<<<
His book that was popular was like in 1905....and it wasn't like a pop
bestseller,. it was read by just a group of intellectuals and contained lots
of traditional stuff.
Something didn't happen between 1937 until
1943, <<<<<<<<<<<
A lot happened within Nichiren Shoshu and Gakkai.
and something else did happen in 1943 that prompted the arrests.
What was it, and why is today's Gakkai distorting these events?
Brian<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
what happend is Makiguchi was developing his Buddhist conviction and the
government was fighting a war and by 1943 were starting to panic cause they
were losing. So they started enforcing the Shinto Talisman thing.
I agree that the Gakkai has overstated Makiguchi's supposed hatred of the
war and they hide his patriotism, But so did NS. They are both guilty and
NS was even worse. What Nikkyo said was really far gone.
dc
Brian
> There was no backlog of radicals, that the authorities were rounding
> up, allowing for the Gakkai to continue on their own way. Neither was
> it because the Gakkai were only small potatoes; one would think that a
> strongly united group of socially relevant people, such as school
> teachers, couldn't go un-noticed, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> I think they were very small potatoes. And the government really didn't get going with their arrests until 1943
The historical record is that there was zero toleration. As was
mentioned previously, a group of educators (and 4000 is not an
inconsequential number) acting against the wishes of a totalitarian
government in time of war, would never be considered "small potatoes".
You may turn out to be alone with this viewpoint David.
>> and, Makuguchi was a well known...
>I don't think he was well known at all.
As much as I dilslike to use the "w" word, this is plainly wrong.
In 1903, Makiguchi's book, Jinsei Chirigaku (The Geography of Human
life) was so well received that it became the standard reference for
Japanese students taking the government qualification exam for
teachers. In 1912 he brought out another book, Kyodaku Kenkyu (Study
of Folk Culture), which was basically a continuation of the previous
work. The book was a popular success, reprinted ten times over the
next twenty years. However, it was his Soka Kyoikugaku Taikei
(Value-Creating Pedagogical System) published in 1930, that brough him
critical acclaim. A statement of recognition and support was printed
in the ninth issue of Kankyo (Environment) on the 20th of Nov. 1930,
in it were the personal endorsements of many public figures including
the then Prime Minister Inuaki Tsuyoshi (1855 - 1932), the Minister of
Justice Watanabe Chifuyu, Supreme Court Judge Miyake Shotaru,
Imperial navy Admiral Nomaguchi Kaneo and many other well known
leaders in politics and business.
Yes, he didn't write so called pop-literature, however, for an author
of educational books, I would say that he had indeed been widely
known, and widely known in circles of no "small potatoe" influence.
Brian
dc
get going with their arrests until 1943
The historical record is that there was zero toleration. As was
mentioned previously, a group of educators (and 4000 is not an
inconsequential number) acting against the wishes of a totalitarian
government in time of war, would never be considered "small potatoes".
You may turn out to be alone with this viewpoint David.
>> and, Makuguchi was a well known...
>I don't think he was well known at all.
As much as I dilslike to use the "w" word, this is plainly wrong.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I have a book ---a very large andf thick coffee table book I bought at
Taisekiji in 1980. I was well over a hundred dollars. It has all known
photos of Makiguchi and all the group photos of the meetings of the Soka for
educators group---they were tiny---at there most Chapter size.
They had 50-75 actual educators tops, and as he became more involved in
Buddhism that number dropped. Where are you getting this number 4000 and
what year are you referring to?
There were many other groups formed in those days. We know the Gakkai
always inflated their numbers. I think you are are believing the propaganda
that he was so well known. His books are obscure and difficult---not the
kinds of books that are popular. I don;t believe he was well known at
all--just a minor blip on the radar screen at that time.
dc
dc
life) was so well received that it became the standard reference for
Japanese students taking the government qualification exam for
teachers. In 1912 he brought out another book, Kyodaku Kenkyu (Study
of Folk Culture), which was basically a continuation of the previous
work. The book was a popular success, reprinted ten times over the
next twenty years. However, it was his Soka Kyoikugaku Taikei
(Value-Creating Pedagogical System) published in 1930, that brough him
critical acclaim. A statement of recognition and support was printed
in the ninth issue of Kankyo (Environment) on the 20th of Nov. 1930,
in it were the personal endorsements of many public figures including
the then Prime Minister Inuaki Tsuyoshi (1855 - 1932), the Minister of
Justice Watanabe Chifuyu, Supreme Court Judge Miyake Shotaru,
Imperial navy Admiral Nomaguchi Kaneo and many other well known
leaders in politics and business.
Yes, he didn't write so called pop-literature, however, for an author
of educational books, I would say that he had indeed been widely
known, and widely known in circles of no "small potatoe" influence.
Brian<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I think this is a bit paradoxical Brian---because it is the very same
"Gakkai Propaganda" telling you he was so well known.
"Reprinted ten times" can mean anything. And all of this was strictly in
the pedagogical world which is small potatoes in the first place--especially
in Japan. Yes he had endorsements and some acclaim, but this was in a very
specialized field.
Years ago (1970) I spent a few weeks every night, pouring over everything
in existence about Makiguchi at the USC Japanese Library---which is a
remarkable library--including stuff in the pedagogical academic scene, every
reference to Makiguchi and concluded, he was a very minor figure. But the
best evidence are the traditional photos of the group---their "conventions."
Very tiny.
dc
Brian
first page. It may be a losing battle, but it appears that this
subject isn't attracting the attention that I thought it deserved;
either that or no one can write anything original and the only reason
that they're hear is to blow their fundamental load from time to time.
Carl Sagan said that Americans were losing their abilty to think
critically (see "Demon Haunted World", Random House 1996) and perhaps
he was right.
Brian
brianr...@videotron.ca (Brian) wrote in message news:<72592491.03082...@posting.google.com>...
dc
first page. It may be a losing battle, but it appears that this
subject isn't attracting the attention that I thought it deserved;
either that or no one can write anything original and the only reason
that they're hear is to blow their fundamental load from time to time.
Carl Sagan said that Americans were losing their abilty to think
critically (see "Demon Haunted World", Random House 1996) and perhaps
he was right.
Brian <<<<<<<<<
As I said in another post, when I bring up the Altered 17th warning article
to Hokkeko members they ask, "Who is Nikko Shonin?" abd the people who can
think just avoid thinking about it.
dc
Kurt
brianr...@videotron.ca (Brian) wrote:
> I'm refreshing this thread David as I don't want it to slip off the
> first page. It may be a losing battle, but it appears that this
> subject isn't attracting the attention that I thought it deserved;
> either that or no one can write anything original and the only reason
> that they're hear is to blow their fundamental load from time to time.
>
> Carl Sagan said that Americans were losing their abilty to think
> critically (see "Demon Haunted World", Random House 1996) and perhaps
> he was right.
>
> Brian
>
I think it will be difficult to find an SGI member who really knows
anything about it to post up here. The SGI-USA and japan monitors this
site, so unless someone posts anonymously, any top leader who values his
position will think twice about posting anything of substance (or
candidly). I think "Terry Berger" was well connected Japanese leader.
These would ideally be the best ones to discuss this with.
Cody
"Kurt" <ab...@renaultcaravelle.com> wrote
> The SGI-USA and japan monitors this
site, so unless someone posts anonymously, any top leader who values his
position will think twice about posting anything of substance (or
candidly). <
You mean if an SGI leader posts here he will be reprimanded and risk losing
his position/job? No free speech in SGI. Why am I not surprised?
I think "Terry Berger" was well connected Japanese leader.
> These would ideally be the best ones to discuss this with.
He didn't last long after he realized his "SGI wants to meet with the LA
Chief Priest" broken record was going nowhere fast. All other subjects he
chose to ignore. You have to admire Pat for his perserverence, though, even
if his grasp of Buddhism is so obviously one bullet short of a pathetic and
sad Russian Roulette game.
Cody
Kurt
"Cody" <youneed...@please.com> wrote:
I was dismayed that he failed to respond to any of my questions.
He's not worth my time now because of it.
Terry at least tried (albeit quite obliquely).
Pat
education. In it he indicates he is seeking to understand 'The True
Nature of Life'. this was many years before he ever heard about
Nichiren daishonin's BUddhism or the Nishiren Shoshu.
Mr. Makaguchi, understsood the importance of the written word, he was
an educator, and a respected one. The story was shared with me, Mr.
Makaguchi was intorduced to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the
Rissho Ankuku Ron. Not any person, a gosho.
Mr. makaguchi went on to try to read the gosho collected by the
Nichiren Shoshu, but most of the gosho were not translated or
distributed to the public. It was through the efforts of Mr.
Makaguchi's deep desire to make the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin available to the general public, and the Soka Gakai
specifically.
Mr. Toda ccompleted the Gosho publications in 1950 or 1954, I believe.
This is the history of the Soka Gakai. Reading and understanding
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin, and no other.
Pat
Kurt <ab...@renaultcaravelle.com> wrote in message news:<abuse-C3E2A7....@news-west.giganews.com>...
Cody
Cody
"Pat" <patma...@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:21cea399.03082...@posting.google.com...
Brian
> Interestingly enought, Mr. Makaguchi wrote a book in 1903 about
> education. In it he indicates he is seeking to understand 'The True
> Nature of Life'. this was many years before he ever heard about
> Nichiren daishonin's BUddhism or the Nishiren Shoshu.
If you had been folowing this thread Pat you would have noticed the
correct title earlier on as "Jinsei Chirigaku" (The Geography of Human
Life).
> Mr. Makaguchi, understsood the importance of the written word, he was
> an educator, and a respected one. The story was shared with me, Mr.
> Makaguchi was intorduced to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the
> Rissho Ankuku Ron. Not any person, a gosho.
What do you mean the story was shared with you?
Sorry. Makuguchi was converted by a Hokkeko member. What did you
think, that the Risshi Ankoku Ron came up to him and introduced
itself? You did of course know that his family were members of
Nichiren Shu, but he took refuge in the Fuji school (Nichiren Shoshu).
> Mr. makaguchi went on to try to read the gosho collected by the
> Nichiren Shoshu, but most of the gosho were not translated or
> distributed to the public. It was through the efforts of Mr.
> Makaguchi's deep desire to make the Gosho written by Nichiren
> Daishonin available to the general public, and the Soka Gakai
> specifically.
>
> Mr. Toda ccompleted the Gosho publications in 1950 or 1954, I believe.
> This is the history of the Soka Gakai. Reading and understanding
> Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the Gosho written by Nichiren
> Daishonin, and no other.
This doesn't sound like your thinking on your own feet Pat but just
regurgitating some Gakkai-sounding rehtoric. None of which Toda would
have approved of.
Rob
brianr...@videotron.ca wrote on 8/21/03 10:54 AM:
> This doesn't sound like your thinking on your own feet Pat but just
> regurgitating some Gakkai-sounding rehtoric. None of which Toda would
> have approved of.
That's the understatement of the day!
Rob
"Nichiren Daishonin indicates the same thong."
Pat Matthews (Literary Giant)
It seams to me selecting a mentor is a personal choice.
Practicing Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism offers only one choce,
regarding the Mystic Law, The Myoho-Renge-Kyo Thus Come One, or the
Myoho-renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten Worlds.
Pat
"But what is just as important when you are achieving Buddhahood while not
chanting infron opf your gohonzon. cxan others recognize your Buddhahod
while you are walkign down the street?"
Pat Matthews (Cunning Linguist) 8/15/03
"The Four Powers were Faith, Practice, The Buddha and the Mystic
law. The NST now teaches The Power of the Law, The Power of the
Dai-Gohonzon, and the Other two I did not bother to follow up on."
Sensei Pat Matthews 8/11/03
"All forms of pain and suffering are evil."
Patsy "The Chump" Matthews 8/14/03
"the SGI does not believe that the Dai-Gohonzon is the
supreme Gohonzon for all Gohonzon. Each Gohonzon is the same"
Pat Matthews
"I have always beleived I am a Bodhisattva of the Earth."
Pat Matthews
"I never stated I have *become* enlightened. I practice Nichiren
Daishonin's
Buddhism. Maintaining a life-state in the World of Buddhahood or reflecting
your Buddhahood from whichever world you are currently in does not
constitute the statement that *' I am now a Buddha.
We are all are Buddha's."
Pat Matthews, Ikeda cult patsy
"Rob, I guess if you read this chapter you would find the Lotus Sutra is
internal in it's entirety! Long story short, it is all internal. The Lotus
Sutra is internal, All we have to do is chant with faith and we can *see*
the body of the Buddha, grasp the entire and complete wisdom of the
Buddha."
Sensei Pat 8/11/03
"Nichiren claims to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra and demands the
protection from the Buddha s and the Heavenly Beings, but he does not claim
to be the Original Buddha throughout time, he indicates that title is left
to the Immutable Law of Life itself, Myoho-Renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten
Worlds. Our life and the life of the Myoho-renge-Kyo of the Eternal Ten
Worlds are both one and the same."
Pat Matthews, follower of Ikeda
"I guess I see wearing a gohonzon around my neck, as wanting to be a
gohonzon, which I feel I already am"
Pat Matthews, Ikeda cult patsy
"Something quite interesting I have read recently, is the understanding that
the practice of Christianity/Catholicism/Islam falls within the teachings of
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, from the perspective that they teach Heaven
is the end of their seeking mind"
Pat Matthews
"What power does a legitimate Gohonzon have? Does it possess the same power
I possess, Buddhahood?"
Patsy Matthews
"You have no logic or gosho that supports the Dai-gohonzon"
Pat Matthews
"Nichiren Daishonin only claimed to be the Votary of the Lotus Sutra, he
never claimed to be the original buddha"
Patsy Matthews
dc
education. In it he indicates he is seeking to understand 'The True
Nature of Life'. this was many years before he ever heard about
Nichiren daishonin's BUddhism or the Nishiren Shoshu.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Pat you bettere check a bit further, Makiguchi's had relatives and part of
his family had the family religion of Nichiren Shu.--of course he knew about
Nichiren. Some scholars say he was raised as Nichiren Shu.in his early
life.
>>>>>>Mr. Makaguchi, understsood the importance of the written word, he was
an educator, and a respected one. The story was shared with me, Mr.
Makaguchi was intorduced to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the
Rissho Ankuku Ron. Not any person, a gosho.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Everyone in Japan knew of the Rissho Ankoku Ron. He was introduced to
Nichiren Shoshu by a local butcher and then met a chief priest of Nichiren
Shoshu that impressed him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mr. Makaguchi went on to try to read the gosho collected by the
Nichiren Shoshu, but most of the gosho were not translated or
distributed to the public.<<<<<<<<<<<
The only gosho that they had at the tiome was a Nichiren Shu Gosho. I have
a photo of Makiguchi's own personal copy with his notes etc.
>>>>>>>> It was through the efforts of Mr.
Makaguchi's deep desire to make the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin available to the general public, and the Soka Gakai
specifically.
Mr. Toda ccompleted the Gosho publications in 1950 or 1954, I
believe.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mr. Toda, who also had Nichiren Shu in his family history, and Christianity
as well, became very close to Rev Hori and Rev Horigome of Nichiren Shoshu.
Rev Hori, (had been 59th High priest) put this gosho together, assisted by
Rev Horigome (became the 65th High Priest) and the project was financed by
President Toda. This is the Gosho Zenshu which was the first Nichiren
Shoshu Gosho.
>>>>>>>>This is the history of the Soka Gakai. Reading and understanding
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin, and no other.
Pat>>>>>>>>>>>>
One thing that had impressed Mr, Makiguchi and Prss Toda about Nichiren
Shoshu was the "Dai Gohonzon." of Nichiren Shoshu. In the Philosphy of
Value it is referred to by Toda as indicative or representative of this
ultimate value as taught by Makiguchi. The Dai Gohonzon was the difference
between Nichiren Shoshu and Nichiren Shu. In your efforts to show that the
Gohonzon is within all beings, and not just an external thing, you have been
expressing the Gakkai relationship with the Dai Gohonzon in a way that is
incorrect. Buddhism is always the Middle Way. You also need to realize
that regardless what supposed Hokkeki members on ARBN say, or the recent
changes in the Nichiren Shoshu doctrines, these things are not real Nichiren
Shoshu teachings anymore then those ideas taught by the 62nd High Priest, or
his partners, Rev. Ogasawara or Nichikai Shonin (60th High Priest).
When the schism began there were many extreme SGI following the example of
Nichiren Shu and others to say the Dai Gohonzon was a "forgery." Clearly
this is not the Gakkai's attitude, nor do they diminish the Dai Gohonzon as
you have been doing. Granted, no Gohonzzon is meant to be seen as an
external God, but this has never been the legitimate teachings of real
Nichiren Shoshu either and just because one may use formal phrases, such as
"pray to the Dai Gohonzon." this does not indicate something outside.
You have to take a step back and realize that many of your statements in
this running argument you are having is as off the mark and incorrectly
stated, as the people you are arguing with.
Another example of your incorrect statements is when you said that the
Gakkai does not call Nichiren Daishonin the true Buddha. This is completly
incorrect. The Gakkai did and does, teach this as the formal doctrine as
does real Nichiren Shoshu doctrine. This however cannot be characterized to
mean that it implies a superstitious entity opf spome kind. nor does it
denmy that all people and all beings, are in fact this same "True Buddha" in
their heart.
If you are going to be tryign to refute literalists, you should also
understand the difference between formality and essense and the real meaning
of specific and general.
Specific and general as a Buddhist principle predates Nichiren and can be
found in Chih-I 's writings as well. The formal way tro explain who the
Buddha is, in both REAL Nichiren Shoshu and in the Gakkai, is to say, that
specific stands for Nichiren and general stands for everyone. Thus High
Priest Nichijun (Rev Horigome 65th High Priest who aliong with Rev Hori
were Mr. Toda's closest buddhist teachers) explains:
*''All the benefits the individual believers enjoy have their profound
source in the unbounded life of Nichiren Daisonin, the original Buddha of
kuon ganjo. The benefits flow into the lives of individual believers,
depending on their relationship with the Gohonzon. The merit of all
believers in the Gohonzon is to have a glimpse of the profound source of the
life-condition of Nichiren Daishonin through their respective relationships
with the Goihonzon. So you must realize that generally speaking all people
are potential Buddhas but specifically Nichiren Daishonin alone is the
Buddha. You should refrain from using such expressions that someone attained
some special enlightenment or that someone attained the same original life
condition of Nichiren Daishonin."
The entire movement of the Gakkai, actually emerged form Presdient Toda's
experience in prison and his relationship with a the good High Priests and
they worked together. Current the Gakkai still goes to the extreme, in
their praise of the "Three President." For instance, although Makiguchi was
Toda's master in life, he learned Buddhism from his own inner experience and
the particular doctrine, from his later relationship with Rev Hori and Rev
Horigome. Mr,. Makiguchi, prioduced hardly any written documents that taught
Buddhism itself---ansd was teaching a mainly secular philosophy.
The Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu are inseparable in terms of history and cause
and effect. They both made terrible mistakes. In recent times it was Ikeda
who stepped out of bounds, and began letting people call HIM the Buddha and
reincarnation of Nichiren etc.
Now it is Nikken doing that. Both are to blame. Both of them have violated
this principle as explained by Rev Horigome above* which mentions "special
enlightenment."
"Special enlightement" has been the major issue all along. This happens
when people take such terms as "Specific and General" or "Kechumyaku of Law
and Kechimyaku of faith," and interpret them in a way that forgets that
these ideas are formal doctrines spoken in words and should never be
understood to mean something com[;ete;ly non-Buddhist, such as to think that
there is some Superior Person, who is eternally greater then others. This
comes from taking literally, passages in the Lotus Sutra, that were in fact
meant by it's authors to be taken in a more cosmic and universal sense,
related to particular inner experience that can be shared by all. The
hierarchy depicted in the Lotsu Sutra and ipin the Gohonzon, is internal to
all people and has a specific and general interpretation. These things are
confused by both sides in these endless debates.
dc
dc
Pat
Intereting enough you have nothing to share regarding the issue.
Before the two presidents of the SGI were one way, and now they are
another way. The SGI does not have to re-write the history, it has
already been written. There are still people out there that started
their practice in the 50's in Japan. Perhaps they still remember the
history and are just sharing with others, so no one forgets the truth.
When did the Nichiren Shoshu publish the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin?
How many Gosho were included in the Gosho published by the Ncihiren
Shoshu, prior to the involvement of the Soka Gakai?
How many Gosho did Nichiren Daishonin write himself?
I have been told by the same source that Nichiren wrote about 420
Gosho and the rest of teh Gosho are being translated as we speak.
Pat
"Cody" <youneed...@please.com> wrote in message news:<bi2ltn$4av9d$1...@ID-137389.news.uni-berlin.de>...
The Dreaded CRAIG!
>Cody,
>Intereting enough you have nothing to share regarding the issue.
>Before the two presidents of the SGI were one way, and now they are
>another way.
That easy eh?
>The SGI does not have to re-write the history, it has
>already been written. There are still people out there that started
>their practice in the 50's in Japan. Perhaps they still remember the
>history and are just sharing with others, so no one forgets the truth.
Look magazine remembers
"Dear Carmen, do you really think that sending spies to
the temple violates their rights somehow? Isn't it
the method of the spy to not get caught? To blend in?
If he creates a disruption, then he reveals himself."
Kathy Ruby
"Yes, I do pray every day for the Nichiren Shoshu temples in the United
States to close do to lack of support. I believe they are spreading a
deluded view of Buddhism in response to the devil king of the sixth heaven's
command."
Tom CUltican, SGI-USA
"Changing the subject doesn't work. Ikeda made a deal to not
establish SGI in China, in return the communists made an agreement not
to persecute SGI members. Considering the very limited room to
maneuver it was a diplomatic decision."
Chris Holte
http://www.cebunet.com/sgi/look863.htm
"According to the organization's public-relations director, Yukimasa Fujiwara, it has an average
net annual income of over $8,500,000 -- tax-exempt as with all acknowledged religions"
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
"Because We have the money, and Hokkeko does
not have EVEN A FRACTION of the money we have,
who do you think will win this battle between
the corrupt priesthood and SGI?"
Richard Hower, SGI-USA member
"Soka Gakkai is unmistakably a church militant in Japan geared for a determined march abroad.
It's significance to America and all nations cannot be ignored. Its target is world domination"
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
"Recently, the Japan Times had reported that a 33-year-old an "avid follower of Soka
Gakkai," had shoved his four-year-old son into the path of an oncoming train, then
changed his mind about committing suicide. The child died of a fractured skull."
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
"By the end of the interview, it was clear that Ikeda, whose word is absolute law to 10 million
unquestioning believers, was unflinchingly confident that Soka Gakkai will succeed in the total
conversion of Japan, and then the world."
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
"To Dr. Yoshiro Tamura, associate professor of Toyo University, the "true nature" of
Soka Gakkai is "fanatic and dangerous." He says Soka Gakkai "makes politics
dependent upon religion as long as that religion is Soka Gakkai . . . and will eventually
act against freedom of religion."
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
"William P Woodard of Tokyo's International Institute for the Study of Religions comments:
"Soka Gakkai does not respect the rights of others. It threatens reprisals to all who oppose
it. Followers are obliged to engage in forced conversion, and in doing so, they force
themselves into private homes and refuse to leave when asked. They disrupt public meetings
and threaten nonbelievers. Leaders encourage violence.
"Soka Gakkai has developed in such a sinister manner," Woodard contends, "that
most people in positions of public responsibility are afraid to take objective stands
against it. They are literally afraid; they never know what form reprisal will take. Its
insidious nature makes it a definite threat to a free, democratic society. It creates a
kind of private terrorism"
LOOK Magazine
September 10, 1963
Pat
The person shared the Rissho Ankuku Ron with Mr. Makaguchi and that
was what made up his mind to practice Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.
An SGI member from Japan, shared their experience with me regarding
their understanding of Mr. Makaguchi.
Did the SGI publish the Gosho written by Nichiren Daishonin, including
hte current edition, as well as the Lotus Sutra?
Was the Gosho witten by Nichiren Daishonin published before the Soka
Gakai was established by Mr. Makaguchi and Mr. Toda?
Pat
brianr...@videotron.ca (Brian) wrote in message news:<72592491.03082...@posting.google.com>...
Brian
The person shared the Rissho Ankuku Ron with Mr. Makaguchi and that
was what made up his mind to practice Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.
>> That's right. But he was already familiar with Nichiren Daishonin.
Why did he decide to not to go back to Nichiren Shu but instead join
Nichiren Shoshu and not one of the other 36 schools of Nichiren.
An SGI member from Japan, shared their experience with me regarding
their understanding of Mr. Makaguchi.
>> Gee, would love to hear more.
Did the SGI publish the Gosho written by Nichiren Daishonin, including
hte current edition, as well as the Lotus Sutra?
>> The word Gosho means "writings". The Gosho is made up of the
Daishonin's writings: letters, theses and the Ongi Kuden ( Nikko wrote
down some of his lectures - called the "Orally Transmitted Teachings"
- and these are the basics which are reproduced in the Gosho.
Was the Gosho witten by Nichiren Daishonin published before the Soka
Gakai was established by Mr. Makaguchi and Mr. Toda?
>> Yes the Daishonin wrote his own letters and theses. No he didn't
write the Gosho. See the above answer.
Brian
dc
reposted
>>>>>Interestingly enought, Mr. Makaguchi wrote a book in 1903 about
education. In it he indicates he is seeking to understand 'The True
Nature of Life'. this was many years before he ever heard about
Nichiren daishonin's BUddhism or the Nishiren Shoshu.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Pat you bettere check a bit further, Makiguchi's had relatives and part of
his family had the family religion of Nichiren Shu.--of course he knew about
Nichiren. Some scholars say he was raised as Nichiren Shu.in his early
life.
>>>>>>Mr. Makaguchi, understsood the importance of the written word, he was
an educator, and a respected one. The story was shared with me, Mr.
Makaguchi was intorduced to Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the
Rissho Ankuku Ron. Not any person, a gosho.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Everyone in Japan knew of the Rissho Ankoku Ron. He was introduced to
Nichiren Shoshu by a local butcher and then met a chief priest of Nichiren
Shoshu that impressed him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mr. Makaguchi went on to try to read the gosho collected by the
Nichiren Shoshu, but most of the gosho were not translated or
distributed to the public.<<<<<<<<<<<
The only gosho that they had at the tiome was a Nichiren Shu Gosho. I have
a photo of Makiguchi's own personal copy with his notes etc.
>>>>>>>> It was through the efforts of Mr.
Makaguchi's deep desire to make the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin available to the general public, and the Soka Gakai
specifically.
Mr. Toda ccompleted the Gosho publications in 1950 or 1954, I
believe.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mr. Toda, who also had Nichiren Shu in his family history, and Christianity
as well, became very close to Rev Hori and Rev Horigome of Nichiren Shoshu.
Rev Hori, (had been 59th High priest) put this gosho together, assisted by
Rev Horigome (became the 65th High Priest) and the project was financed by
President Toda. This is the Gosho Zenshu which was the first Nichiren
Shoshu Gosho.
>>>>>>>>This is the history of the Soka Gakai. Reading and understanding
Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through the Gosho written by Nichiren
Daishonin, and no other.
Pat>>>>>>>>>>>>
hierarchy depicted in the Lotsu Sutra and upon the Gohonzon, is internal to