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07Papa is declaring an emergency at this time

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Walter Tondu

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Nov 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/21/96
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WOW! Another eye opener. I'm sure I've learned something from this.
Very glad you made it! We all need more tell-all's like this. It
keeps us thinking.

Rick Wagner (rwa...@goldengate.net) wrote:
: Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
: with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
: would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
: it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.

..... snipped .....

Lee Groves ,44,357

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Nov 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/21/96
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> Rick Wagner <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
>>with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
>>would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
>>it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.

Like others, I have filed this one away for future reference!

This story illustrates why I always take my handheld GPS along.
You can find an airport, when nothing else is available to help you.
I said in these groups months ago that GPS was going to save lives
someday, and I think this proves it.

Of course the GPS would have been useless without the very impressive
piloting skills the author demonstrated. I only hope I can exhibit the
same stuff if I'm ever in an emergency sitution.

I highly encourage Rick to submit this for publication. It made me tired
just reading it. Were it left to me, it would be manditory reading
for student pilots.

Lee

Brian Winther

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Nov 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/21/96
to

Can someone please re-post this original post. I missed it the first
time. It sounds like a good one to read from all of the responses to it.
Thanks.

Brian


Rick Wagner

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Nov 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/21/96
to

Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.

April 1996;

"Affirmative - 07Papa is declaring an emergency at this time"

There I was, 5000 msl 4000 agl with my Wife beside me in our 1954 Piper
Tri-Pacer; I was full power and pitched for a standard climb and was
going down.

Prior to reaching 7000 when I was suppose to contact Center I called
and told them I was having some problems. "TriPacer Zero Seven Papa is
25 miles off of Park Rapids at 5000 and cannot maintain altitude, we're
turning back."

Center responded "07P are you declaring an emergency?"

I thought for a moment - was I really going to say it? Was I? It was
only one week after getting my instrument rating, my first real IMC
cross country and my Wifes first IFR experience and things were not
going well.

Just then a severe engine vibration started and I immediately pulled
power and dropped the nose. I thought the engine would rip off the
front of the airplane if I hadn't. "Zero Seven Papa has severe engine
vibration, we're iced up badly and cannot maintain altitude, I've
pulled the power and have lost the airspeed indicator - we're turning
back to Park Rapids."

Again Center responded "Roger 07P, understand you're turning back to
Park Rapids - are you declaring an emergency?"

What I wanted to say was "what more does it take!"

We were iced up bad, real bad. I fought to look away from the panel to
see what was 1/2 of a inch of clear ice glued to the front half of the
wing struts. I looked at the pitot tubes to see what looked like a 1
inch ball of ice on the front of the tube. It didn't look too good. I
keyed the mike and said the words that I had feared to say,

"Affirmative. Zero Seven Papa is declaring an emergency at this time."

I could go into a long drawn out dissertation of what events led up to
this point, but I won't. The 125 mile flight from the Blaine Airport
in Minnesota northwest to Park Rapids was uneventful as we flew through
and on top of a cloud deck of about 5000 msl and landed Park Rapids.

The wife and I had dinner with relatives and were returning home with a
6 PM departure. Cloud bases then were 1200 feet and the only
significant issue was that at 4000msl I asked my wife, Gail, to look
for icing on the struts and tires. She replied that she didn't see
anything. I checked out my window and saw nothing that would indicate
any icing conditions. 2 minutes later however...

As we climbed out of 4500 it was becoming obvious that we were nearing
the tops of the clouds. An occasional whisper of lighter skies
encouraged me that we'd soon be on top and I'd be able to relax a
little as I was nervous as hell. The air was bumpy and I was working
up a sweat.

I knew my experience level. As a IFR pilot I was as green as you could
get with my instrument ticket being all of a week old. Something
wasn't right though. Airspeed 90, pitched for a climb and the vertical
indicator not moving, maybe even showing a little less than level.

"Scan, scan, scan. What's wrong?" I asked myself. "Why aren't we
climbing. Damn, must be ice. Need to get out of the clouds, need to
get just a little higher."

I released just a small amount of back pressure from the yoke and then
pulled back to a best rate of climb pitch. Almost out! Just whispers
of cloud above us. Almost out. The altimeter started to drop and the
vertical indicator slumped to about 700fpm decent. Oh Shit! The
airspeed still read 90! That cant be! I increased pitch, it should have
dropped. This aint good. Damn ice.

By this time Gail had become nervous as I was talking out loud about
getting on top and having picked up that it was the weight of ice that
was keeping us from climbing.

I dropped the nose by reducing the back pressure on the yoke. I cranked
in a couple of turns of down trim to reduce the pitch angle and started
my call to Minneapolis Center.

"Zero Seven Papa you are cleared direct to Park Rapids, altitude your
discretion weather at Park Rapids ..blah blah blah.. " Like I cared
about the winds and temperature at the airport.

OK, how do I get back to PR? I was scared. I knew I was scared, They
knew I was scared, Gail knew I was scared, I was scared. I was also
starting to loose it. Overload -- confusion, fear, lost; but, I knew
the only one who could help me was me, and all the stuff I was supposed
to have learned in IFR training.

The plane was heavy, real heavy. After several attempts to bring the
power back up I must have thrown the ice off the other side of the prop
and it would now spin up smoothly. Full power. Now to get back to a
pitch altitude that would give me enough airspeed to stay flying and
reduce my rate of descent.

As the airspeed was still frozen at 90. I used "feel" and the attitude
indicator to find the best pitch. At 300fpm descent I could stay just
above what felt like an impending stall and was the best compromise
available. I knew I had to turn around but to what heading? I'd
become completely disoriented as to assigned headings, so I couldn't
remember a course reversal number to work with.

Center radioed they had put a airliner in a hold overhead as they would
loose radio contact with me as I descended. They asked for periodic
updates to my condition. A call from the airline pilot came next
saying he was overhead and would stay with me.

For a short period of time, I felt lost; panic was starting to set in
and I started to think we wouldn't make it. "Fly the plane, fly the
plane," I kept hearing this voice in my head. Actually it was many
voices, the voices of all the instructors and other pilots I'd flown
with who over the years had said a thousand times "fly the plane!". So
I did.

I requested the airliner ask center for a heading to fly back to PR,
since I was disorientated and had made several turns off course since
things went bad. I was below radar and they couldn't help me in any
way but to advise what heading to fly if I was still on the outbound
course.

I'm not sure if it was the turbulence or the situation but it seemed
harder to control the airplane. It may have been the weight increase
but I was struggling with trying to stay level.

My Wife bumped my shoulder to get my attention and asked very seriously
"are we going to be all right?" I didn't know. I told her that I
thought so but to be honest - I didn't know. She responded, "Your
lips are saying you think so; but, your knees are saying were
screwed." She was right. My legs were shaking and I had not realized
it before.

Then the airline radioed that Minneapolis had requested "say souls
onboard". That was a real turning point for me. I responded with
"relay Minneapolis that 07P has two very scared souls on board." What
else could I say? It was the purest truth I'd ever spoken.

I think this was a real turning point in my mental condition. I knew
then that not many people get asked that question and have the
opportunity to talk about it later, I knew I had to fly better than I
had ever flown before. I had to think better and faster than before,
and I had to get it right or we were going to die.

I started the turn inbound but nearly lost it as the left wing dropped
and control input was not responding. I thought a spin was starting as
the DG began a quick turn. I dropped the nose and reduced power for a
period of time I thought would be adequate and then pulled the nose
back level and added power again. The attitude Indicator came slowly
back to normal and I pitched and powered back again to best rate of
"descent" as it were. A glance at the compass reminded me that I had
again forgotten the heading to fly so I just took a breath and decided
to reset the VFR GPS I had with us. It was originally set for Blaine
and under normal circumstances would have been my reference for heading
but I wasn't thinking as clearly as I normally was when I was just out
shooting approaches.

Frequently I told the airline captain what was going on. It felt good
to have someone to talk to who would understand what I was saying and
possibly what I was going through.

The GPS gave me a heading number but when I made a very shallow turn to
that heading on the dg it became obvious that the dg had precessed when
in the spin/turn. I turned mostly with rudder and very shallow to a
GPS course that agreed with the GPS heading. Slowly we kept
descending.

Scared, sweating, and angry with myself for putting my wife helplessly
into this situation, I sat there balancing the pitch with the "feel" of
the airplane hoping that our altitude would hold out to get us back to
the runway. Now all I could do was wait.

It seemed like 2 hours to me before we hit the bottom of the clouds.
We broke out of the clouds at 1100 feet agl but was still unable to
maintain altitude. Airspeed now read zero. Not that it mattered; I
wasn't going to believe it no matter what it said at this point.

I'm a experienced skydiver and my wife has made 1 tandem jump. I
thought about how stupid it was to ride this 40 year old fuel tank into
the trees or swamp below when, if we had had chutes, we could have just
jumped and saved our lives.

The windshield and side windows were now iced over and we could only
see directly left, right or behind, and nothing forward. I'd landed
once before using the GPS to align to the runway so I thought I could
do it again. That gave me some confidence, and I needed all that I
could get. There wasn't anywhere else to go. No roads or fields, just
trees and swamp. Our decent rate was down to about 200 fpm or less now
and getting better every minute. Visibility was only just over a
mile.

Center relayed through the airliner a request for what approach I
wanted. Funny, we were about 400 agl without a VOR signal, 8 miles
from the airport, and I thought it was just funny. "07P is 400 agl and
has no forward visibility due to ice on the windshield. We're going to
align to the runway with GPS and hope we don't hit anything."

They replied with "07P climb to 2600 as soon as possible to minimum
altitude, if able."

Right.

Things started getting better. 1 mile out I was able to climb some.
The ice was coming off a little at a time and a 3-inch hole had
started to defrost near the bottom center of the windshield. The GPS
did its job, again, and we soon were dropping down to runway. The GPS
showed a 100-knot ground speed over the threshold and I still had power
at 100%.

When only a couple of feet off the ground I pulled power back, just a
little and pulled back on the yoke enough to maintain flight. Wrong,
the plane stalled and hit the runway like a ton of bricks. I had had
my wife put her coat over her face and fold her arms to protect her
head. I didn't think I would be able to control the overweight skinny
legged milk stool at that speed, but I was wrong about that, too.

We stopped. On the runway and in one piece. Large sheets of ice were
falling off the wings and crashing into small pieces and scattered down
the runway. I turned around to see the fire trucks and police cars
waiting with all there lights on. We made it.

I thanked the pilots of the holding airliner, and I meant it. I don't
know if they were trying to be calming or assuring but they were, and I
thank them. The Center controller was cool and professional, I needed
that and I thank them also. And I thank my wife who, after helping to
bust the ice off the airplane, got back in to it and flew back with me
when I really needed someone to fly with.

"Un-forecasted imbedded freezing rain" said the FAA about month later
during a telephone follow-up with them. I'm OK with that, and I
learned a lot from that one.

P.S. The weather briefing did not include any reported advisories for
ice. In case you were wondering.


Rick Wagner
PP ASEL IR
rwa...@goldengate.net


J P Rourke

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Nov 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/21/96
to

Rick Wagner <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:

>Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
>with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
>would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
>it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.

Whew!

That is a keeper...

After reading this, I find I'm breathing hard, I'll need a moment or
two to compose myself..

Thank you for sharing.. I wonder how many lives you may save, who
will be in any kind of unexpected icing situation and be able to think
"Rick made it, so will I!" along with excellent info on radio, GPS,
rate-of-climb, indicator, airspeed, etc considerations, all crucial to
making this a successful flight! Thanks again..

And 'getting back up on the horse': You and your wife are very lucky
to have each other..

I'd say 'God bless', but it's clear you already have..

-John

P.S: Not true about the 'bad writer'! That was not only a great
lesson, it was great writing! 'I Learned About Flying From That' has
few stories to equal yours.. you would be a shoo-in if you choose to
submit it. So glad it wasn't in 'Aftermath'..

SFirpo

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to

In <32948A...@goldengate.net> Rick Wagner <rwa...@goldengate.net>
writes:

Jeffrey C. Thompson

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to
If you have Web access, I've found it very useful to visit
www.dejanews.com when I've missed posts. You can search on the
newsgroup and subject line and get a list of all of the posts. Its
great for posts that have dropped off you local system.
--
Jeffrey C. Thompson jt...@us1.ibm.com
be...@mhv.net http://www1.mhv.net/~beff

The opinions expressed herein are my own. They do not necessarily
represent those of my employer, my accountant, my wife, . . .

John R Lawson

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to

>Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
>with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
>would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
>it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.
>
>April 1996;
>
>"Affirmative - 07Papa is declaring an emergency at this time"

Excellent article, well written and made all the more frightening
because it was for real. It would be interesting to speculate what might
have been the outcome had you not had a GPS on board. Maybe this will
quieten some of the luddites.
--
John Lawson

"Pilots are confused creatures: When they're flying, all they talk about
is women. When they're with a woman, all they talk about is flying."


Rick Wagner

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to

John R Lawson wrote:
>
> >Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
> >with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
> >would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
> >it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.
> >
> >April 1996;
> >
> >"Affirmative - 07Papa is declaring an emergency at this time"
> Excellent article, well written and made all the more frightening
> because it was for real. It would be interesting to speculate what might
> have been the outcome had you not had a GPS on board. Maybe this will
> quieten some of the luddites.
> --
> John Lawson
>
> "Pilots are confused creatures: When they're flying, all they talk about
> is women. When they're with a woman, all they talk about is flying."

Thanks John for your kind words about my story, This is the 2nd time the
GPS has saved my butt. The first was geting caught in a downpour prior
to having a instrument rating and having to land at a grass strip that I
had marked as a waypoint early that day, The same day I installed the
GPS.

I beleive that if it wasnt for the gps I may have been screwed. I guess
thats all I can say about it.

by the way, whats a luddite.

Rick Wagner


Rod Farlee

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to rwa...@goldengate.net

Freezing rain can make ice at an amazingly fast rate. Immediate action
to get out of it is the only answer. Usually that means an immediate
180 degree turn. No delay.

My encounter with it was in November 1990, on a flight from Williamsburg
PA to Wilmington DE. Was south of Reading PA, about 8 pm. Also unforecast.
A winter warm front moved north faster than forecast. I was at 3500' in
VFR below an overcast. Reading Approach called me to say their radar was
painting areas of rain ahead. OAT guage said 28 F. I asked for vectors
around it. This was my first mistake. I should have been heading back
into Reading.

A few minutes later, I flew into drizzle. Instant ice. I was only 5
miles north of Chester County airport, so immediately pushed the nose
over and headed for it. I was out of the drizzle in less than 2 minutes.
But I had 1/4" of ice.

Turning final, I realized I had a problem. The runway lights refracted
through the ice on the windscreen and each was a bouquet of light.
So I opened the Cessna side window and stuck my head out in the wind.
The window smashed me on the top of my head. So I ended up holding the
window open with my left hand, juggling yoke and throttle with my right,
and landing long and fast. Comedy of errors.

Had to come to a full stop on the runway for a few minutes just to collect
my wits. Taxied back slowly, making S turns so I could get glimpses of
the taxiway and ramp ahead. It took over an hour for that ice to melt.
It took about the same for my ears to defrost.

Now I fly an airplane with a defroster. The first thing I did when I
bought it was replace the scat tubing to the defroster, and then install
a heated pitot. But if I ever hear of freezing rain again, I will not
even try to fly around, under or anywhere near it. And if I ever see
it again, will make an instant 180 turn and get out of there and land.
Wouldn't even try to climb through it for second, not in a single engine
piston airplane.

Freezing rain only takes minutes. Our encounters could easily have been
worse. Never again.
- rod farlee

fishler_len

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to

Ken Shrum wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
> <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>

>
> >by the way, whats a luddite.
>
> I can't cite the specific book, but I believe it's a reference to a
> science fiction novel. The Luddites are a group who have a gross
> aversion to anything high-tech.

The definition is more or less correct, the etymology isn't. As I
recall from my history lessons (too many years ago), the Luddites were
followers of a certain Mr. Ludd, in Industrial Revolution England, who
went around smashing textile machines. They were mostly poor people
that had lost their jobs due to automation. They were opposed to any
advanced machinery. The term has been generalized to mean anyone who
is against technological progress. Pedantic mode off (:-)).

BTW, Rick, I also want to thank you for the original posting. As I
read it, I felt my involuntary muscles tightnening. Whew! I am so glad
you made it!

--
- Len Fishler -
aka fishl...@tandem.com aka l...@loc201.tandem.com
PP-ASEL-IA
Centurion N3784Y RHV

Rod Farlee

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Nov 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/22/96
to rwa...@goldengate.net

Freezing rain will kill, in a matter of minutes. Our encounters could

Ken Shrum

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Nov 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/23/96
to

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
<rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:

<snip>

>by the way, whats a luddite.

I can't cite the specific book, but I believe it's a reference to a
science fiction novel. The Luddites are a group who have a gross
aversion to anything high-tech.

BTW, thanks for your excellent post of your experience. It was
terrifying to read, can't imagine what it must have been like
first-hand. I'm very glad you made it.

Ken Shrum PP-ASEL
Annapolis, MD
Lee Airport (ANP)

brian whatcott

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Nov 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/23/96
to

In article <32948A...@goldengate.net>, rwa...@goldengate.net
says...

>
>"Affirmative - 07Papa is declaring an emergency at this time"
>....

>Then the airline radioed that Minneapolis had requested "say souls
>onboard". That was a real turning point for me. I responded with
>"relay Minneapolis that 07P has two very scared souls on board." What
>else could I say? It was the purest truth I'd ever spoken.
>
...

>Rick Wagner
>PP ASEL IR
>rwa...@goldengate.net
>
I'd like to thank you for showing the courage to share this
experience. Chalk one up to the GPS. And your honesty.

Reminds me that the people I work with have a way of telling the
truth, the way they see it. I think that comes from the many hours
they spent where telling it like it is was s.o.p for staying alive.

Regards
brian whatcott <in...@intellisys.net>
Altus OK


dgam...@nbnet.nb.ca

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Nov 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/23/96
to

> Rick Wagner <rwa...@goldengate.net> writes:
> Following is my first attempt to document and share this experience
> with other pilots. I welcome your input as to what other information
> would be helpful to understand the story better or what would help make
> it more worthwhile. I am not a good writer, I know this.


NUTS ! .......... This is GREAT writing............Don't change
a thing.

Congrats on the piloting skills, you certianly made
all the right moves......

Please submit this for publication, it is important
that as many as possible read this, It could save lives.......

I sweated through the entire story......

Thanks....

Dave

D in G

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Nov 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/23/96
to rwa...@goldengate.net

Thank you for telling this tale..
really,
Dennis in GA

Ken Shrum

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Nov 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/24/96
to

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:50:23 -0800, fishler_len
<l...@loc201.tandem.com> wrote:

>Ken Shrum wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
>> <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >by the way, whats a luddite.
>>
>> I can't cite the specific book, but I believe it's a reference to a
>> science fiction novel. The Luddites are a group who have a gross
>> aversion to anything high-tech.
>

>The definition is more or less correct, the etymology isn't. As I
>recall from my history lessons (too many years ago), the Luddites were
>followers of a certain Mr. Ludd, in Industrial Revolution England, who
>went around smashing textile machines. They were mostly poor people
>that had lost their jobs due to automation. They were opposed to any
>advanced machinery. The term has been generalized to mean anyone who
>is against technological progress. Pedantic mode off (:-)).

Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes I have trouble distinguishing
fact from fiction! 8*)

John R Lawson

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Nov 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/24/96
to

>Thanks John for your kind words about my story, This is the 2nd time the
>GPS has saved my butt. The first was geting caught in a downpour prior
>to having a instrument rating and having to land at a grass strip that I
>had marked as a waypoint early that day, The same day I installed the
>GPS.
>
>I beleive that if it wasnt for the gps I may have been screwed. I guess
>thats all I can say about it.
Good on you Rick, maybe people reading this will realise that if you are
in trouble, you have to use ALL the aids available to you. I note from
the amount of replies to your story that it was very well recieved. I
won't say keep writing, 'cos that will inevitably mean you have gotten
into another BAD situation, but happy flying, and thanks for sharing
your story with us.

>
>by the way, whats a luddite.
I'm not sure if you have followed the other posts, but basically the
term is used to describe those amongst us who are dead set against
progress/change. In aviation this group includes those that were against
radio, then radio nav aids, and now GPS. Still that's their lookout.

Take care

--
John Lawson
Please don't tell Mum I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano in a whorehouse.

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Nov 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/24/96
to Ken Shrum

Ken Shrum wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:50:23 -0800, fishler_len
> <l...@loc201.tandem.com> wrote:
>
> >Ken Shrum wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
> >> <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> >by the way, what's a luddite.


Lud·dite

Lud·dite (lůdąět) noun
1. Any of a group of British workers who between 1811 and 1816 rioted
and destroyed laborsaving textile machinery in the belief that such
machinery would diminish employment.
2. One who opposes technical or technological change.

[After Ned Ludd, an English laborer who was supposed to have destroyed
weaving machinery around 1779.]
— Ludądism noun


The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition
is licensed from Houghton Mifflin Company. Copyright © 1992 by Houghton
Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Selected Illustrations from the Concise Columbia Encyclopedia.
Copyright © 1991 by Columbia University Press.

FRANK VAN HASTE

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Nov 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/24/96
to

Not quite. The Luddites were historical figures, nothing SF about 'em. This
dates back to England in the industrial revolution. The power loom was
being introduced in the textile industry and many old-fashioned hand
weavers were being thrown out of work. Remember, no unemployment benefits
in those days.

A reactionary named Ned Ludd began making inflammatory speeches that led to
groups of his followers entering factories and smashing power looms to
bits. Ever since, anyone who was technology-averse (particularly if the
aversion was rooted in distaste for the social consequences of
technological advances) have been called Luddites or neo-Luddites.

Frank
---------------
Ken Shrum <ksh...@bayserve.net> wrote...


> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
> <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>

> >by the way, whats a luddite.
>
> I can't cite the specific book, but I believe it's a reference to a
> science fiction novel. The Luddites are a group who have a gross
> aversion to anything high-tech.
>

Paul Tomblin

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Nov 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/24/96
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In a previous article, "FRANK VAN HASTE" <fra...@localnet.com> said:
>Not quite. The Luddites were historical figures, nothing SF about 'em. This
>dates back to England in the industrial revolution. The power loom was
>being introduced in the textile industry and many old-fashioned hand
>weavers were being thrown out of work. Remember, no unemployment benefits
>in those days.
>
>A reactionary named Ned Ludd began making inflammatory speeches that led to
>groups of his followers entering factories and smashing power looms to
>bits. Ever since, anyone who was technology-averse (particularly if the
>aversion was rooted in distaste for the social consequences of
>technological advances) have been called Luddites or neo-Luddites.

And just in case you're not totally bored by all this:
In France, the workers expressed their dissatisfaction with the new working
conditions by throwing their wooden shoes into the power looms, breaking them.
Since the wooden shoes were called "sabot", the term "sabotauge" (which I
probably spelt wrong) entered the language.


--
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL _|_ Rochester Flying Club web page:
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___________[o0o]___________ ptomblin/rfc.html
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John R. Johnson

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Nov 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/26/96
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On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:

> Ken Shrum wrote:
> >=20


> > On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:50:23 -0800, fishler_len
> > <l...@loc201.tandem.com> wrote:

> >=20


> > >Ken Shrum wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:59:34 -0800, Rick Wagner
> > >> <rwa...@goldengate.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> <snip>
> > >>

> > >> >by the way, what's a luddite.
>=20
>=20
> Lud=B7dite =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Lud=B7dite (l=F9d=B9=ECt) noun
> 1.=09Any of a group of British workers who between 1811 and 1816 rioted


> and destroyed laborsaving textile machinery in the belief that such
> machinery would diminish employment.

> 2.=09One who opposes technical or technological change.
>=20


> [After Ned Ludd, an English laborer who was supposed to have destroyed
> weaving machinery around 1779.]

> =97 Lud=B9dism noun
>=20
>=20


> The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition

> is licensed from Houghton Mifflin Company. Copyright =A9 1992 by Houghton


> Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

> Selected Illustrations from the Concise Columbia Encyclopedia.=20
> Copyright =A9 1991 by Columbia University Press.
>=20
>=20
Right, the Luddites destroyed the looms by throwing wooden shoes called
"sabots" into the mechanism to break it. This was the derivation of the
term "sabotage" for purposely breaking a machine.

John


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