Could it be true?
Jack Love
towns of Heart and Taleban stronghold in Kandahar believed aboard the
train whose explosion killed at least 300 Iranians and destroyed five
villages Wednesday. According to unconfirmed reports from Tehran, the
colossal blast was caused by sabotage."
And, if so, who did the sabotage?
sfb
"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eh7d30928gkhrfd9i...@4ax.com...
Howard Berkowitz
<jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hmmmm...assuming they mean Herat (a common spelling error) rather than
Heart, this seems a bit odd.
First, the two towns are pn opposite sides of the country. Herat is
southwest and Kandahar is southeast. Herat is maybe 100 miles from the
Iranian border, but Kandahar isn't. Terrorists trying to get things to
Kandahar would logically ship from Pakistan, not Iran.
Second, Herat is the stronghold of the Northern Alliance. Kandahar,
indeed, was the Taliban stronghold. I'm trying to picture a scenario
where both would be involved in the same political effort.
Third, how would the train get there? According to the 2003 CIA World
Factbook, there are just under 25 kilometers of railroad tracks in
Afghanistan. One route goes to Turkmenistan and other to Uzbekistan.
Mark Test
--
"I know in my heart and my brain that America ain't what's wrong in the
world."
---Donald Rumsfeld---
"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eh7d30928gkhrfd9i...@4ax.com...
Arved Sandstrom
Doesn't seem like a scenario that points towards sabotage. The train
travelled some 30 miles before mostly derailing, then burned for 5 hours or
so, at which point something exploded. It was carrying sulfur, petrol,
cotton, and fertilizer - so they say. It makes little sense to me that
saboteurs would rely on the effects of a derailment when presumably they
could just have done the deed right then and there where it broke loose,
with somewhat more reliable methods.
I'm not convinced that a tanker car, or a few of them, cooking off, couldn't
have caused this. I'd be more worried about LNG, but I'll bet gasoline is no
joke.
AHS
IBM
news:6zAZb.5395$Ks6....@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
[snip]
> I'm not convinced that a tanker car, or a few of them, cooking off,
> couldn't have caused this. I'd be more worried about LNG, but I'll bet
> gasoline is no joke.
There was a safety film a few years ago which showed the results
of a tank car cooking off. End result was a massive fireball out
of which the tank car flew like a rocket. I believe when they
measured the distance the wreckage lay from its original position
the result was something like half a mile.
IBM
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
Brian Allardice
jackxx...@earthlink.net says...
Could have been outer space aliens.....
If you Yank fuckwits actually knew enough to spell correctly the names of the
places in a country of which you know nothing...
Tricky rail connections......
Cheers,
dba
Jack Love
Well, if you knew anything about anything you'd know that DEBKA is out
of Israel.
>Tricky rail connections......
But you're just trying further of the ZZBunker award for idiotically
bad AI.
>Cheers,
>dba
Jack Love
>"Arved Sandstrom" <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote in
>news:6zAZb.5395$Ks6....@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I'm not convinced that a tanker car, or a few of them, cooking off,
>> couldn't have caused this. I'd be more worried about LNG, but I'll bet
>> gasoline is no joke.
>
> There was a safety film a few years ago which showed the results
> of a tank car cooking off. End result was a massive fireball out
> of which the tank car flew like a rocket. I believe when they
> measured the distance the wreckage lay from its original position
> the result was something like half a mile.
>
> IBM
ON the other hand a few thousand pounds of plastique subjected to heat
might go up after a while (according to Kevin, anyway) given some sort
of concussive impact.
Brian Allardice
Brian Allardice
says...
Oops, wrong button.....
>In article <c77e3010e0afgf1qp...@4ax.com>,
>jackxx...@earthlink.net says...
>>Well, if you knew anything about anything you'd know that DEBKA is out
>>of Israel.
You mean Mossad did it? Wouldn't put is passed them.....
>>>Tricky rail connections......
>>
>>
>>But you're just trying further of the ZZBunker award for idiotically
>>bad AI.
Now that was nasty...... nasty...... Danger Will Robinson........
Cheers,
dba
Keith Willshaw
One can understand why Debka has such a poor
reputation.
1) There are no railroad lines from Iran to Afghanistan.
2) The explosion occurred on a train being assemble to move
goods to Turkmenistan when the wagons broke loose and
ran back down a grade
3) The cargo is known and included 17 wagons of sulphur,
six wagons of petrol, seven wagons of fertilisers and 10
wagons of cotton wool
Keith
Howard Berkowitz
d...@extraneous.uniserve.com (Brian Allardice) wrote:
As are some Canadians, some Yanks are fuckwits. Some of each are not.
Jack Linthicum
If all else fails read something from a real news organization:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3765204,00.html
Survivors Sought in Iran Train Explosion
Thursday February 19, 2004 9:01 AM
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
Associated Press Writer
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Rescuers battling choking toxic fumes used cranes
and floodlights to search through the night for survivors in five
Iranian villages devastated when derailed train cars carrying fuel and
chemicals exploded nearby, killing more than 200 people.
The explosion devastated the villages on Wednesday and left a crater
about 50 feet deep. Authorities rushed in blood supplies to the area,
about 20 miles east of the city of Neyshabur, and appealed through
loudspeakers for donors.
Dozens of people were believed to be trapped under collapsed clay
homes in villages along the tracks. Firefighters persisted despite
freezing temperatures and toxic fumes throughout the night, finally
extinguishing the blaze shortly after dawn on Thursday.
Vahid Barakchi, a senior official in Khorasan Province's Emergency
Headquarters, told Iranian state radio that 295 people had been killed
and 450 injured.
But the acting governor of Neyshabur, Mohammad Alajgardi, told The
Associated Press that about 180 bodies had been recovered by Thursday
morning.
``The entire area around me shook,'' said Hussein Hassani, who saw the
blast from several miles away. ``It felt like a strong earthquake, but
because the buildings didn't collapse (where I was) I knew it wasn't.
Smoke could be seen ... for hours.''
The explosion occurred hours after runaway train cars carrying the
lethal mix of fuel derailed, overturned and caught fire in
northeastern Iran.
Top local officials, firefighters and rescue workers who were
extinguishing the blaze were killed when the explosion erupted hours
after the derailment, the official Islamic Republic News Agency
reported.
Police sealed about a half-square-mile area around the blast scene
near Neyshabur, a historical city home to 170,000 people about 400
miles east of Tehran.
The explosion was so large that windows in homes as far as six miles
away were shattered. In an apparent indication of the explosion's
force, Iranian seismologists recorded a 3.6-magnitude tremor in the
area, IRNA reported.
<please note>
Iranian TV showed footage of black plumes of smoke and orange flames
billowing into the sky from the cars, 17 of which were loaded with
sulfur, six with gasoline, seven with fertilizer and 10 with cotton.
Dozens of people, some wearing face masks to protect themselves from
the smoke, were seen walking around or putting out flames on the
scene.
Authorities were investigating what caused the 51 cars to roll out of
the Abu Muslim train station at 4 a.m. local time. Forty-eight of the
cars derailed on reaching the next stop at Khayyam, about 12 miles
away, and caught fire.
<more>
2)
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-woiran193677478feb19,0,783084.story?coll=ny-nationworld-headlines
By Mohamad Bazzi
MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT
February 19, 2004, 6:39 AM EST
Tehran, Iran - A runaway train laden with a lethal mix of fuel and
fertilizers derailed yesterday in northeastern Iran, caught fire and
then exploded several hours later, killing as many as 309 people.
<more>
3)
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/headline/world/2409665
<more>
A provincial official said two possible causes of the crash were being
investigated.
"One ... is negligence of the personnel at the station and the other
is technical failure of the braking system," said Hassan Rasouli,
governor of Iran's northeastern Khorasan province.
An iron wedge used on Iranian trains to secure the wheels of the lead
car was broken, and it was unclear if brakes on individual cars were
working, Rasouli said.
The train's cargo was on the way from central Asian countries to
Iran's southern port of Bandar Abbas, Rasouli said. Rescue officials
and railway workers were aware of the hazardous cargo but did not
realize that the blaze caused some freight cars to heat up to the
point of combustion.
<more>
George Shirley
> "Arved Sandstrom" <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote in
> news:6zAZb.5395$Ks6....@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>I'm not convinced that a tanker car, or a few of them, cooking off,
>>couldn't have caused this. I'd be more worried about LNG, but I'll bet
>>gasoline is no joke.
>
>
> There was a safety film a few years ago which showed the results
> of a tank car cooking off. End result was a massive fireball out
> of which the tank car flew like a rocket. I believe when they
> measured the distance the wreckage lay from its original position
> the result was something like half a mile.
>
> IBM
Number of films on the subject have been made. I have been through
control of rail tank car fires training on a number of occasions and
have responded to about 20 of them over the years. If the relief vent
works properly the overpressure will go out that way but if another car
is burning and the flame is focused on one part of another car then it
may burn through the carbon steel. Generally a rocket will be caused
when the car has burned down the liquid and all that is left is fumes
and there is enough ground fire to overpressure. It's a lot more
complicated than that but I dont' have time to go through it all.
Needless to say one fourth of the car may rocket up to one quarter mile
or more, the opposite end will open up like an orange peel, and the
middle section will flatten out, generally called the "dance floor"
among rail emergency responders. You also don't want to be anywhere near
when all of this happens as it can wipe out people, buildings and
everything else within a quarter mile radius. Look up Kingman, AZ for
the facts on one such explosion that killed a number of volunteer
firefighters. HTH
George
Yama
"Keith Willshaw" <keit...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c17js3$h36$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
> One can understand why Debka has such a poor
> reputation.
>
> 1) There are no railroad lines from Iran to Afghanistan.
>
> 2) The explosion occurred on a train being assemble to move
> goods to Turkmenistan when the wagons broke loose and
> ran back down a grade
>
> 3) The cargo is known and included 17 wagons of sulphur,
> six wagons of petrol, seven wagons of fertilisers and 10
> wagons of cotton wool
4) Despite both Iran and Taleban being fundamentalist Islamic regimes, they
don't have much in common, actually they are more like enemies and it isn't
that many years when Iranian invasion to Afghanistan to displace Taleban
seemed like a real possibility.
Earl
news:G6KZb.3865$Ve2...@bignews6.bellsouth.net:
Then you have the normal industrial chemicals that will detonate
when heated (butadienne for example -- tankcar after tankcar
passing on the tracks as I wait)
OB:SMN
And since we know there was fertilizer in some of the cars
Does anyone remember the damage done to Texas City back in the
'40s from overheated ammonium nitrate. (and this was without
adding the diesel fuel to make ammitol)
George Shirley
Yup, I was 9 or 10 years old at the time and the explosion rattled the
windows in our house in Beaumont, TX, about 100 miles from the blast.
Scared the hell out of my Mom and I as Dad was at work at a refinery
about 10 blocks from the house. That was our first thought and it was a
relief when refinery management started calling all the families to let
us know it wasn't them. The ship had had a smoldering fire for quite
some time IIRC and then exploded. The anchor is still on display in
Texas City and about a quarter mile from the dock.
I have also responded to butadiene tankers involved in train derailments
and wrecks and the RV usually lifts when the railcar is heated and then
the vapors there start to burn. Our job was to keep the railcar cooled
with waterspray and let it burn at the RV until the surrounding fires
were under control. The real danger in these types of fires are
responders who have not been trained in the proper way to take care of
them. Most of the heavy industrial areas today, Houston ship channel
area with 250 plus plants; Beaumont, TX; Orange, TX; and the Lake
Charles, LA areas have mutual aid groups that are cross trained in
proper response. Don't see too many of them blowing up anymore. Still,
I'm glad I'm too old to mess with that sort of thing anymore. You mark
your laundry several times in a career of that sort and you learn to
respect anything that can go kaboom.
George
Jack Love
<keit...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:eh7d30928gkhrfd9i...@4ax.com...
>> "DEBKAfile reveals: Hundreds of tons of explosives destined for Afghan
>> towns of Heart and Taleban stronghold in Kandahar believed aboard the
>> train whose explosion killed at least 300 Iranians and destroyed five
>> villages Wednesday. According to unconfirmed reports from Tehran, the
>> colossal blast was caused by sabotage."
>>
>> And, if so, who did the sabotage?
>>
>>
>
>One can understand why Debka has such a poor
>reputation.
Certainly don't deny that. And just for the devil's advocate
position...
>1) There are no railroad lines from Iran to Afghanistan.
'destined for' doesn't imply a train trip all the way.
>2) The explosion occurred on a train being assemble to move
>goods to Turkmenistan when the wagons broke loose and
>ran back down a grade
So they say.
>3) The cargo is known and included 17 wagons of sulphur,
>six wagons of petrol, seven wagons of fertilisers and 10
>wagons of cotton wool
>
The cargo is described as the above. Believing what the enemy says is
a potential error.
>Keith
>
tim gueguen
"Yama" <yam...@SPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c17u5v$10g$1...@ousrvr3.oulu.fi...
>
> 4) Despite both Iran and Taleban being fundamentalist Islamic regimes,
they
> don't have much in common, actually they are more like enemies and it
isn't
> that many years when Iranian invasion to Afghanistan to displace Taleban
> seemed like a real possibility.
>
Taliban consider that Iran has been putting great efforts into developing an
aircraft industry and other high tech. The Taliban, as noted in a Canadian
newspaper article this week, considered even simple meteorology to be un
Islamic, smashing Kabul's weather prediction equipment and allowing only
reports of current weather conditions.
tim gueguen 101867
Howard Berkowitz
<jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:44:52 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
> <keit...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:eh7d30928gkhrfd9i...@4ax.com...
> >> "DEBKAfile reveals: Hundreds of tons of explosives destined for Afghan
> >> towns of Heart and Taleban stronghold in Kandahar believed aboard the
> >> train whose explosion killed at least 300 Iranians and destroyed five
> >> villages Wednesday. According to unconfirmed reports from Tehran, the
> >> colossal blast was caused by sabotage."
> >>
> >> And, if so, who did the sabotage?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >One can understand why Debka has such a poor
> >reputation.
>
> Certainly don't deny that. And just for the devil's advocate
> position...
> >1) There are no railroad lines from Iran to Afghanistan.
>
> 'destined for' doesn't imply a train trip all the way.
Gramted. Let's evem say that the train was going to Turkmenistan, to be
switched there to the short rail line that runs into Afghanistan. You
are still 100-400 miles from your destinations, with railcar-sized
stockpiles.
Herat, in Herat Province, is closest to this point, but you still have a
lot of freight to move over marginal roads. The province is indeed
conservative, being one of the few in Afghanistan to have banned
satellite receivers, but the faction there would be rather unlikely to
ally with the Taliban.
Just because Kandahar _was_ the Taliban's stronghold means it's under
rather tight surveillance. The remaining Taliban in-country are most
likely in, say, Patiya Province or other more rural areas that border
Pakistan.
You're going to need a fair number of trucks to move rail cars of cargo,
in a country where the other side has air supremacy. Will they be
noticed?
>
> >2) The explosion occurred on a train being assemble to move
> >goods to Turkmenistan when the wagons broke loose and
> >ran back down a grade
>
> So they say.
>
> >3) The cargo is known and included 17 wagons of sulphur,
> >six wagons of petrol, seven wagons of fertilisers and 10
> >wagons of cotton wool
> >
>
> The cargo is described as the above. Believing what the enemy says is
> a potential error.
Any individual intelligence report should be cross-checked.
Cross-checking here would suggest there is an Iranian alliance with
quite different radicals, not just theologically but linguistically, and
in two significantly distant provinces with little political
commonality.
Iran has been funding some radio stations in the area of the Iranian
border, but, to general surprise, both the Afghan stations and the local
ones seem to be focused on shared cultural heritage between the Iranians
and the Dari-speaking areas of Afghanistan. Dari is a dialect of Farsi.
While many Afghanis are bilingual, the first language is apt to be
Kandahar, as it is in the Northwest Fronier provinces of Pakistan.
Jack Love
<h...@gettcomm.com> wrote:
>In article <6l4f309qkifv4vcd6...@4ax.com>, Jack Love
><jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:44:52 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
>> <keit...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >news:eh7d30928gkhrfd9i...@4ax.com...
>> >> "DEBKAfile reveals: Hundreds of tons of explosives destined for Afghan
>> >> towns of Heart and Taleban stronghold in Kandahar believed aboard the
>> >> train whose explosion killed at least 300 Iranians and destroyed five
>> >> villages Wednesday. According to unconfirmed reports from Tehran, the
>> >> colossal blast was caused by sabotage."
>> >>
>> >> And, if so, who did the sabotage?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >One can understand why Debka has such a poor
>> >reputation.
>>
>> Certainly don't deny that. And just for the devil's advocate
>> position...
>> >1) There are no railroad lines from Iran to Afghanistan.
>>
>> 'destined for' doesn't imply a train trip all the way.
>
>Gramted. Let's evem say that the train was going to Turkmenistan, to be
>switched there to the short rail line that runs into Afghanistan. You
>are still 100-400 miles from your destinations, with railcar-sized
>stockpiles.
But it doesn't have to be 'rail car' sized. All it has to be is a
couple of truck loads destined to be converted into small IED
packages.
Aghanistan has 4 major ethnic subgroups. Making declarative
statements about all of them is undoubtedly incorrect. Aghanistan is
another one of the 'states' that probably shouldn't exist, but it
does.
Jack Love
wrote:
Check out the following for further views of and on 'science' vs
Islam.
un-spiritual/Koranic 'will fade away'.
Of course, then, you also have the Malayisan loon who calls for get
Islamic modern weapons so we can attack the West.
>tim gueguen 101867
>
William Hamblen
> Authorities were investigating what caused the 51 cars to roll out of
> the Abu Muslim train station at 4 a.m. local time. Forty-eight of the
> cars derailed on reaching the next stop at Khayyam, about 12 miles
> away, and caught fire.
Although someone could have let off the train brakes, you can
attribute incidents to negligence more often than sabotage.
Jack Linthicum
Here's a nice normal DEBKAFile story:
Chinese troops pour into Afghanistan
PatriotSaints News Service
October 7, 2001 6:00 am MST
Sterling D. Allan
What is most ominous about this is that the Major Media is not
reporting it. As of 6:00 am MST, it wasn't even at WND.com [found
later] or CentrexNews.com [found later]
Could the reason the Major Media isn't hitting it be because of the
cushy relationship the U.S. has with China, which they don't want to
jeopardize? No use angering Frankenstein when he has been so nice.
http://www.debka.com/
China Moves Forces into Afghanistan
6 October: Before even the launching of the major US military
offensive in Afghanistan, long Chinese convoys were carrying armed
Chinese Muslim servicemen through northwest China into Afghanistan,
according to DEBKAfile's intelligence experts.
They were sent in to fight alongside the ruling Taliban and Osama Bin
Laden's Al Qaeda. Their number is estimated roughly between 5000 and
15,000. Our sources report another three convoys are behind the first
3000, who crossed the frontier Friday, October 5.
They are entering Afghanistan along the ancient Krakoram Road to the
Afghan-Pakistani border, through the Kulik Pass of Little Pamir, which
is situated in one of the highest and most remote regions of the
world.
Beijing is deploying this force in two places:
A. Whakyir, the Kirgyz tribal encampment near the Little Pamir-Tadjik
frontier, opposite the swelling concentration of US and Russian
Special Forces and air strength
The Chinese have brought with them Kirgyz fundamentalist militants
from the Ferghana Valley of Central Asia, as interpreters.
From Whakyir, the Chinese generals believe, with Bin Laden's and the
Taliban's tacticians, they will be able to block off the movement of
the US-led force from its rallying point in Dzhartygumbez,
Tadjikistan, no more than 35 miles from Little Pamir, into the
mountains of Hindu Kush.
B. Jalalabad in north Afghanistan, at the foot of the Hindu Kush
range.
DEBKAfile's Chinese sources reveal that, immediately after the
terrorist strikes in the United States on September 11, the Chinese
intelligence service, MSS, handed in to the defense ministry in
Beijing their estimation that the United States would go to war to
overthrow the Taliban regime, for the sake of which it would sign a
pact with Russia. The Chinese leadership viewed this eventuality as
the most significant shift in the global balance since the 1962
Chinese-Russian feud, with dangerous implications for China's world
standing and its interests in Central and Southwest Asia. They decided
it must be counteracted.
The only satisfactory outcome of the Bin Laden crisis in Chinese eyes
is the redeployment of Japanese-based US troops to the Persian Gulf,
when the Kitty Hawk carrier moved the 3rd Marines Division out of
Okinawa last week.
Chinese intelligence did not miss the absence of fighters and
reconnaissance craft on her decks. The planes stayed behind, but the
very fact that the Kitty Hawk is no longer within operational range of
the Straits of Taiwan leaves the disputed island with diminished
protection.
Beijing also took note of additional US military movements, including
the Army's 10th Mountain Division based at Fort Drum, New York and
that of another formerly Pacific-based unit, the 25th Infantry
Division, out of Hawaii to the Persian Gulf.
According to DEBKAfile 's Far East experts, the removal of substantial
US military strength from the Pacific Rim opened the way for Chinese
intervention in Afghanistan and its effort to slow down the US-Russian
advance.
<end Debka>
Whakyir certainly sounds like what it is.
Howard Berkowitz
<jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Sorry -- this got garbled. A resident of Kahandar is most likely have
Pashto as a first language, which is shared with the Northwest
Frontier/FATA area of Pakistan, but not Pakistan as a whole. Like
Afghanistan, there are many languages, but in the rest of Pakistan, Urdu
and English are most common
>
> Aghanistan has 4 major ethnic subgroups.
From a linguistic standpoint, yes, probably 4 major, and a total of 30
or so that are spoken at least by a few thousand. The significant
languages are Dari and Pashto, with Uzbek and Turkmen under 10% each.
>Making declarative
> statements about all of them is undoubtedly incorrect. Aghanistan is
> another one of the 'states' that probably shouldn't exist, but it
> does.
I'm not sure of your point -- I didn't think I was making statements
about all.
Jim Watt
<jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"DEBKAfile reveals: Hundreds of tons of explosives destined for Afghan
>towns of Heart and Taleban stronghold in Kandahar believed aboard the
>train whose explosion killed at least 300 Iranians and destroyed five
>villages Wednesday. According to unconfirmed reports from Tehran, the
>colossal blast was caused by sabotage."
>
>And, if so, who did the sabotage?
If it were sabotage, one would conclude that it
is the work of terrorists.
Thankfully, since 9/11 the US has discovered that
terrorism exists and has decided it is a social evil
and is dedicated to stamping it our worldwide
Thus, if someone is responsible for de-railing trains
carrying chemicals, and destroying innocent villages
your president and his security apparatus should be
co-operating with the legitimate government of the
Republic of Iran to bring the responsible parties to
justice and prevent a repetition of this evil.
I expect thats the way you would look at it if it
happened near Chicago.
--
Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
George Shirley
Around here it's deteriorating rail beds and tracks. Get one derailment
or more every six months or so. Rarely causes a problem because the
engineers know where the tracks are bad and go slow to be ready. Of
course the watertable is very close to the surface in SW Louisiana.
George
Jim
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way>
>
> I expect thats the way you would look at it if it
> happened near Chicago.
> --
> Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
You forget, the world still consists of Us and Them.
Simplifies all situations.
Jim
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
jackxx...@earthlink.net (Jack Love) wrote:
> ON the other hand a few thousand pounds of plastique subjected to
> heat might go up after a while (according to Kevin, anyway) given
> some sort of concussive impact.
Nitrate based fertilisers are dangerous. When I was working freight
fertiliser trains were treated in the same way as trainloads of
commercial explosive. The various additives to ammonium nitrate bombs
are there to make it easier to detonate not increase explosive power.
It is surprising what can explode, flour mills for example.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Those who cover themselves with martial glory
frequently go in need of any other garment. (Bramah)
Jack Love
As my spy friend says: "The difference between terrorism and
counter-terrorism is which side you're on."
> Jim
>
Howard Berkowitz
<gsh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"National security" doesn't only mean "protection against terrorists."
When critical infrastructure, like the electric power grid or train
routes, are in bad enough shape to collapse by themselves, that makes
them a high priority for fixing in and of itself. When stupidity (e.g.,
playing downloaded games on a computer that was supposed to be isolated
for power control) or deliberate sabotage can trigger things early, the
priorities are even greater.
Fred J. McCall
:As my spy friend says: "The difference between terrorism and
:counter-terrorism is which side you're on."
There are a lot of people out there who don't quite seem to get it.
--
"They made hypocrite judgments after the fact
But the name of the game is be hit and hit back."
-- "Boom Boom Mancini", Warren Zevon
Brian Allardice
>
>In article <9a7e3096vm136khpr...@4ax.com>,
>jackxx...@earthlink.net (Jack Love) wrote:
>
>> ON the other hand a few thousand pounds of plastique subjected to
>> heat might go up after a while (according to Kevin, anyway) given
>> some sort of concussive impact.
>
> Nitrate based fertilisers are dangerous. When I was working freight
>fertiliser trains were treated in the same way as trainloads of
>commercial explosive. The various additives to ammonium nitrate bombs
>are there to make it easier to detonate not increase explosive power.
>
> It is surprising what can explode, flour mills for example.
Your basic grain elevator....
Cheers,
dba
ZZBunker
> d...@extraneous.uniserve.com (Brian Allardice) wrote in message news:<YEFZb.579502$X%5.130881@pd7tw2no>...
> > In article <3CFZb.565659$JQ1.491903@pd7tw1no>, d...@extraneous.uniserve.com
> > says...
> >
> >
> > Oops, wrong button.....
> >
> >
> > >In article <c77e3010e0afgf1qp...@4ax.com>,
> > >jackxx...@earthlink.net says...
>
> > >>Well, if you knew anything about anything you'd know that DEBKA is out
> > >>of Israel.
> >
> > You mean Mossad did it? Wouldn't put is passed them.....
> >
> > >>>Tricky rail connections......
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>But you're just trying further of the ZZBunker award for idiotically
> > >>bad AI.
> >
> > Now that was nasty...... nasty...... Danger Will Robinson........
> >
>
>
It's hardly nasty. Given that if the
either the Chinese or the Euro-wanks
could actually make a functional
AI system, the US would be worried.
But since the only AI systems
they have out-of-date CIA systems
and French oiler stuff
we even worried less about them
than we are about the US Navy
being even approximately
semi-compentent around Nuclear Reactors.
>
> Here's a nice normal DEBKAFile story:
> Chinese troops pour into Afghanistan
> PatriotSaints News Service
> October 7, 2001 6:00 am MST
> Sterling D. Allan
>
> What is most ominous about this is that the Major Media is not
> reporting it. As of 6:00 am MST, it wasn't even at WND.com [found
> later] or CentrexNews.com [found later]
>
> Could the reason the Major Media isn't hitting it be because of the
> cushy relationship the U.S. has with China, which they don't want to
> jeopardize? No use angering Frankenstein when he has been so nice.
>
> http://www.debka.com/
>
> China Moves Forces into Afghanistan
China moved forces into Afghanistan circa 600 AD,
so your military intelligence is someewhat European,
and somewhat dated.
> 6 October: Before even the launching of the major US military
> offensive in Afghanistan, long Chinese convoys were carrying armed
> Chinese Muslim servicemen through northwest China into Afghanistan,
> according to DEBKAfile's intelligence experts.
>
> They were sent in to fight alongside the ruling Taliban and Osama Bin
> Laden's Al Qaeda. Their number is estimated roughly between 5000 and
> 15,000. Our sources report another three convoys are behind the first
> 3000, who crossed the frontier Friday, October 5.
But, since the US military did nothing but watch
when they were told that the
Chinese are doing the same thing
in Iraq and Iran, it's not like
many USians really care about
moron intelligence flow.
Keith Willshaw
> >Gramted. Let's evem say that the train was going to Turkmenistan, to be
> >switched there to the short rail line that runs into Afghanistan. You
> >are still 100-400 miles from your destinations, with railcar-sized
> >stockpiles.
>
> But it doesn't have to be 'rail car' sized. All it has to be is a
> couple of truck loads destined to be converted into small IED
> packages.
>
Then why not move it by truck in the first place, marshalling
it on a train headed in the wrong direction would seem a strange
way to go about smuggling contraband.
Keith
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Jack Love
<keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:nnef30h7tjni1i6h7...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:08:41 -0500, Howard Berkowitz
>> <h...@gettcomm.com> wrote:
>
>> >Gramted. Let's evem say that the train was going to Turkmenistan, to be
>> >switched there to the short rail line that runs into Afghanistan. You
>> >are still 100-400 miles from your destinations, with railcar-sized
>> >stockpiles.
>>
>> But it doesn't have to be 'rail car' sized. All it has to be is a
>> couple of truck loads destined to be converted into small IED
>> packages.
>>
>
>Then why not move it by truck in the first place, marshalling
>it on a train headed in the wrong direction would seem a strange
>way to go about smuggling contraband.
Oh, I'm making no defense of anything, just playing devil's advocate.
In that vein, concealing it in a corner of another cargo might seem to
be a smart idea. And 'less' risky than a couple of trucks moving
through Indian country if that's what the eastern parts of Iran are
these days, if the shipment had been compromised.
The, of course, there's always the "they're incompetent." argument.
Jim Watt
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way>
> >
> > I expect thats the way you would look at it if it
> > happened near Chicago.
> > --
> Simplifies all situations.
>
>
> Jim
You are, of course, totally correct the problem is deciding
who 'they' might be and what the difference is.